The chemist lady must think I am a drugo. I went there this afternoon and asked for Sudafed Original, then Codral Original. Both a no go and had to settle for the 'new formula' Codral that I have used before and hasn't worked anywhere near as effectively. I have since looked up some articles comparing pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine, which have had some similar conclusions.
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug. It is penalising us all for the bad things a very small number people do with it. What is wrong with resticting the amount sold rather than a total ban!!
I want to breathe easy already!!!
Yeah it does suck. The new cold and flu pills are terrible. Its either that or going to the doctor to get a script for sudafed. Which makes it a very expensive cold.
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug.
Out of curiosity, did you have ID? Had you purchased any recently?
I also find the 'new formula' stuff useless.
Yep....it's pretty tough
Are you sure that Chemist stocks pseudoephedrine based products? Many pharmacies will not stock them, due to the increased rate of break and enters.
Generally, most pharmacists will take your Drivers Licence and put it through the computer and if you haven't had the product recently you'll be fine.
Alternatively, nasal sprays work well, they generally last 8-12 hours
Out of curiosity, did you have ID? Had you purchased any recently?
They didn't ask and I haven't bought any since last winter.
Alternatively, nasal sprays work well, they generally last 8-12 hours
Hmm might give one of these a go
Generally, most pharmacists will take your Drivers Licence and put it through the computer and if you haven't had the product recently you'll be fine.
I didn't even get this. I got told I needed to see a doctor and get a script.
Yeah beconaise works reasonably well..
But if you have ongoing blocked nose issue the doc.. I'm on Nasonex a prescription nasal spray.. Takes about 2 weeks for the stuff to work, but its pretty good.
The new formulas are completely useless.
I've had sinus problems for a very long time, since I was a teen, and there are only two things that work for me – pseudoephedrine, or the evil nose sprays.
I've got to the point where I can survive unless I get a cold but when I do get one I need the drugs that work and I am willing to go to as many chemists as it takes to get a decent amount of them so I can go home and hibernate for as many days as it takes to get rid of the cold.
When you say it was a nogo, did they not have any in stock, or did they refuse to give you any that they did have in stock?
If you can't get it at one chemist, try another one. There are some chemists who refuse to stock pseudoephedrine products at all because of the time and effort they have to put in with recording the details.
It does make one wonder, though.. do people who use the drugs that you can make from pseudoephedrine have clear sinuses? Does anyone know?
It does make one wonder, though.. do people who use the drugs that you can make from pseudoephedrine have clear sinuses? Does anyone know?
No. The drug they make is methamphetamine, which has no effect on sinuses.
I always be sure to ask for products containing pseudoephedrine when I have a cold. They always look me up and down and act all surprised when I can pronounce "pseudoephedrine", then take my ID and make me wait 10 minutes while they pretend to be busy (this is just to 'punish' me for asking for pseudo, the license checks are instant), but they've never flat out refused. If they ever do, I'll tell them where to stick their phenylephrine and go somewhere else.
As of April 2008, anyone wishing to purchase a product containing the ingredient 'pseudoephedrine' without a prescription will by law be required to produce photo identification, or alternatively, non-photographic identification issued by a government agency (e.g. birth certificate). Prior to April 2008, pharmacists were not required by law to record the sale of pseudoephedrine products, although many did as it was regarded as good professional practice. This new legal requirement, which was written into the Poisons and Dangerous Drugs Act, brings the Territory into line with each of it's neighbouring states.
Pseudoephedrine is the main ingredient found in older formulations of cold and flu medications, which acts as a nasal and sinus decongestant. Many people also refer to pseudoephedrine by its most common brand name of Sudafed.
In recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of 'back yard' methamphetamine (or speed) labs around the country. Pseudoephedrine is a key ingredient that is required in the manufacture of methamphetamine, and until recently, the easiest way to acquire pseudoephedrine was through the over-the-counter purchase at pharmacies. Prior to the launch of PROJECT STOP, there has been no system or tools available to assist pharmacists in screening the sale of pseudoephedrine products, and had to rely solely on their professional judgement to detect PSEUDO-RUNNERS. 'Pseudo-runners' is the term given to people who shop around for pseudoephedrine-containing products to source vast quantities to sell to methamphetamine cooks.
PROJECT STOP
PROJECT STOP is a national initiative which first began in Queensland in 2005, and is designed to detect and stop 'pseudo runners', by exposing their actions to the police. PROJECT STOP is an online tool that assists pharmacists in determining whether a request for a pseudoephedrine based product is legitimate or not. It involves the recording of the sale in the online database which is held and operated by the Pharmacy Guild of Australia. The recording is done under the patient's identification number (e.g. drivers license number), and allows the pharmacist to see previous sales recorded at other pharmacies with this number. The pharmacist can then use this information to decide whether the sale of the pseudoephedrine-containing product is appropriate or not.
Next time you go to the doctor get a prescription.
I want to breathe easy already!!!
I've had the same problem, really wanted psedos, but couldn't get it. I decided to settle for a nasal spray...and boy does it work well! Works better than pseudoephedrine for me. The one is use is oxymetazoline, for your interest. Jus tbe sure not to use it for more than 5 days, as it can cause a rebound of the symptoms.
The pharmacist can then use this information to decide whether the sale of the pseudoephedrine-containing product is appropriate or not.
Are there any guidelines under PROJECT STOP about when a purchase should be refused?
I didn't even get this. I got told I needed to see a doctor and get a script.
This is what I normally do to get cold tablets like that and this to get a script from a doctor.
Anyway, I hate giving out IDs to everyone all the time.
To the OP: Agreed. I've had the same problems. Last year I asked for Codral and was unknowingly given the new formula. It simply does not work.
A couple of weeks ago I went to a chemist and specifically asked for Codral with pseudoephedrine. The chemist was reluctant to give it to me, but I told him the other ingredient doesn't work. I added that if he won't sell it to me, I'll go to another chemist and buy it from them. I told him I have no intention of making speed, I just need to go to work as I can't afford to take time off. He relented in the end, but I had to produce photo I.D. to buy it.
The problem, I suppose, is that if you specifically mention you want pseudeoephedrine as an ingredient, they instantly become suspicious of you. If you don't ask, they just palm of the new formula rubbish to you.
I've bought 4 boxes of pseudoephedrine tablets in the last 2 months. Both my wife and I have had really nagging colds which won't go away.
Each pack bought from the same chemist with ID. I'm worried that my house will be raided any day now...
The chemist lady must think I am a drugo.
I get odd looks when i ask for a pack of Phenergan... Geez not everyones a junkie!!!
Well I'm going to try the licence thing again at some other places. I hate running noses, its terrible.
Yeah, the phenylephrine's is the tits upon the bull.
I had really bad blocked sinuses a few months back, and thought I'd try it. One, for some freaking reason it made me drowsy.
Two, it worked...maybe about a tenth as well as pseudoephedrine. If that. Useless crap.
I want to breathe easy already!!!
Totally agree, I am sick of going to the Chemist and being treated like a child/criminal, now I just ask for what I need and God help them if they question me!
I had really bad blocked sinuses a few months back, and thought I'd try it. One, for some freaking reason it made me drowsy.
Maybe you used the combination that also had a drowsy antihistamine.
If you cannot get pseudoephedrine, use a decongestant nasal spray becaue it works better and faster compared to a tablet.
I had really bad blocked sinuses a few months back, and thought I'd try it. One, for some freaking reason it made me drowsy.
Probably not the phenylephrine, many cold & flu medications also contain codeine which would make you sleepy. Pseudoephedrine has the opposite effect though.
I saw about a dozen of cold and flu packs opened up and left under the train seat. Obviously with that amount of packs opened at once it must be a druggo. Unfortunately this is not the first time I saw large quantity of cold and flu packs carelessly disposed of.
God help them if they question me!
Pharmacists are required as a part of their professional duty to ask these questions particularly because pseudoephedrine containing products are listed as schedule 3 (pharmacist only medication) by the TGA.
I usually get a pack of Sudafed before I go overseas and geez, the hoops you have to go through at the pharmacy, unbelievable.
It is very annoying.
No pharmacist should tell you it's a prescription only item, but be honest and tell you they don't sell the product to new customers or don't keep it in stock because they're sick of holds ups and getting their windows smashed in.
I find the medicated nasal sprays much better for congestion. Usually you're looking for the short term sprays containing xylometazoline/xylometazoline (Otrivn, Drixine, Sudafed Spray, Dimatapp Spray). Phenylephrine does next to nothing when taken orally, but works well topically (Nyal used to do a good spray from memory). Any of these sprays give instant relief.
(Stuff like Beconase and Rhinocort are better for ongoing/allergy-related problems)
Use the sprays for a couple of days and then ween yourself off them by using them only on one side for the last day. You can add on a plain old saline spray, but they're only good when you basically drown yourself in them. 5 or 6 sprays in each nostril as long as you need. Amazing how good plain ol' saline can be when you get it in the right places.
If you're desperate for psuedo-containing products try pharmacies in the middle of big shopping centres, they're probably less worried about getting robbed. :(
*Disclaimer: I'm the shopgirl that'll try get you to buy the nasal sprays because I don't want you to buy crappy products that don't work.
It is very annoying.
Trust me, the staff at the pharmacy don't enjoy it either. Especially when we get screamed at by people that can only have Demazin 6-Hour.
(And now codeine has also been up-scheduled you also have to wait behind all the codeine junkies while the pharmacist deals with their requests. :))
The chemist lady must think I am a drugo. I went there this afternoon and asked for Sudafed Original, then Codral Original. Both a no go and had to settle for the 'new formula' Codral that I have used before and hasn't worked anywhere near as effectively. I have since looked up some articles comparing pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine, which have had some similar conclusions.
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug. It is penalising us all for the bad things a very small number people do with it. What is wrong with resticting the amount sold rather than a total ban!!
I want to breathe easy already!!!
I feel for you.
I was going to a big concert one night and became heavily congested went to the local pharmacy in a rush and asked to buy 1 tablet for $50 bucks and I'd take it right in front of them, yes I was that desperate just so I could feel better but they obviously declined the offer :(
Thankfully I have friends who own numerous pharmacy's and they provide me with a good supply, they still put my name down on the registry but I have nothing to hide so if the authorities become suspicious I don't give a rats-ass because I do have a genuine reason and not a druggie. The Telfast original (Yellow boxed) are the best IMO, clear within 30mins, it is an amazing drug, lol.
You only get 4 in each box. Nothing else will help me not even the Sudafed branded equivalent.
If I looked like one, sure, grill me.
A lot of psudeo-runners tend to be retires, they're usually lovely to talk to. My best codeine addict was a nice middle age lady, well dressed. People that look like junkies might be straightlaced. I not going to judge you based on appearance.
Pharmacy staff have no desire to act as policeman, tho. I don't think any of us appreciate being made the frontline on the war on speed. Pharmacists are usually just trying to follow the law and professional obligations, thus you get questioned.
So, if I look like a junkie will you sell to me?
No, I'll try sell you a nasal spray instead. :)
Or direct you to another pharmacy where you can buy the product. We don't sell it. Too many hold ups and replaced glass.
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug. It is penalising us all for the bad things a very small number people do with it. What is wrong with resticting the amount sold rather than a total ban!!
It's always the small minority who ruin it for everyone, with everything. Next thing you know, all these new legislations pop up. I guess if the pharmacist breaks them, then they are held accountable. But i wonder if they own the pharmacy they can or cant?, unlike the bigger chains. I mean if i own a deli, i can sell what i want right? or do all pharmacist's have to answer to the guild or something.
guess if the pharmacist breaks them, then they are held accountable.
We really do live in a nanny state. Hang on, that's wrong, we live in a police state.
I'm on Nasonex a prescription nasal spray.. Takes about 2 weeks for the stuff to work, but its pretty good.
Nasonex gives me nosebleeds. And at $40 a pop its damn pricey.
But i wonder if they own the pharmacy they can or cant?, unlike the bigger chains. I mean if i own a deli, i can sell what i want right? or do all pharmacist's have to answer to the guild or something.
All pharmacists have the same legal and professional obligations. If they fail in their obligations they can be arrested, or reregistered/suspended by the board.
They can choose which drugs they stock, but if they choose not to stock a particular medicine they are professionally required to refer the patient elsewhere. Sometimes it is difficult with psuedo products because so many pharmacies are choosing not to stock the tablets, or not advertise the fact to the general public.
I'm the shopgirl that'll try get you to buy the nasal sprays
nasal sprays might be good for home, but probably a little inconvenient for work/out and about.
If you're desperate for psuedo-containing products try pharmacies in the middle of big shopping centres, they're probably less worried about getting robbed. :(
Yes I think there is one at a shopping center that stocks them, a little inconvenient though.
The chemist lady must think I am a drugo
That happened to me a year ago. I went to the local pharmacy to get some medication to stop a runny nose and they asked for my driver's licence and told me that I could come back in 10 minutes to collect the cold & flu medication. I went away and came back in 10 minutes and guess what? The stupid VC pharmacy girl had the medication waiting for me but somehow my driver's licence had gone missing.
The next day, I had to apply to the local licensing authority to get another driver's licence, which was an upfront fee of $34 and a 3 week waiting period, which I wasn't able to drive my car. Needless to say, I kept fit by riding a pushbike for 24 days until my new driver's licence arrived in the mail. I must have saved about $100 in petrol during that period.
The cold & flu tablets didn't work, and I just put up with a runny nose for a couple of days (which could have been fixed with a clothes peg from the washing line).
which was an upfront fee of $34
I would have billed the pharmacy.
TIP: Never let anyone take your ID out of your sight.
I would have billed the pharmacy.
To say that I was furious would be an understatement. As I'm self-employed and drive for a living, switching from car to pushbike in winter wasn't on my agenda, all I can say is that the common cold can kill you.
TIP: Never let anyone take your ID out of your sight.
Yep, silly me, under the influence of a killer runny dose, made a stupid misteak.
Went the other week for some cold tablets at my local chemist. They asked about my symptoms and then gave me a chemist own brand containing codeine, paracetemol and psuedo plus they also said to grab some oral "Duro-tuss" to help clear the mucous causing my chesty cough. Showed my license and they wrote down my details on a form, but other than that no dramas at all! Guess I dont look like a druggo lol
My girlfriend was also very appreciative because she hates the phenyl shit...
Pharmacists are required as a part of their professional duty to ask these questions
I don't give a crap, target the criminals not the honest people, politicians always want to take the path of least resistance.
It's rediculous, why can't they just attach each licencse number to the number packets bought and if it goes beyond x then investigate, otherwise hand it over so I can stop my nose dripping all over my desk!!! New formula sucks!
nasal sprays might be good for home, but probably a little inconvenient for work/out and about.
if i have a serious cold the last thing i want to do is shove a tube up my nose...its not nice up there...and thinking of repeating that every 6 hours...shudders...
I dont use any meds if i have a cold...symptoms are horrid but atleast i dont get that spaced out feeling from medications...
I don't give a crap, target the criminals not the honest people, politicians always want to take the path of least resistance.
It is not just about targeting criminals, they are also required to determine suitability of the medication in respect to your condition/medical history etc. or whether referral to a GP is required. A failure to meet a duty of care can result in disciplinary action or charges of criminal neglience, no one in their right mind would risk their job just to save you 30 seconds.
We don't expect you to understand why we ask you these questions but at least understand that we are required to do so because noone likes getting sued or losing their job.
I dont use any meds if i have a cold
I've become like you ... I've since learned to just put up with the annoying symptoms and keep a box of tissues handy. The cold & flu tablet vendors are without any business from me. It took me a while to wake up to it.
It's all about relative perception. Next time try something along the lines of...
"Gimme a course of Sudafed and a pack of EXTRA LARGE CONDOMS!!!"
and a pack of EXTRA LARGE
I often wonder who actually buys the 'regular' ones. That could be embarrassing when paying at the checkout.
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug.
There are very good reasons why this ban is in place. The pseudo is route to manufacturing either speed or ice, along with a couple of chemicals and some reaction vessels. Project Stop is one reason we don't have an epidemic like they have in the US (where pseudoephedrine is freely available).
Think of it as doing your bit for the community by being a willing participant. I've found asking for "day & night cold/flu tablets" always works, never had a problem and will refuse to buy the phenylephrine ones (as I don't find them as effective) but of course handing over my license is part of the deal.
I don't give a crap, target the criminals not the honest people, politicians always want to take the path of least resistance.
That's the idea of Project Stop – to target the criminals and attempt to prevent the flow on effects of the manufacture and use of substances like ice and speed. The idea that it's the result of poor political will etc is laughable, this is about trying to stamp out the misuse of the product. Pseudo is definitely not the only substance or chemical subject to reporting regulations in Australia. It's only 30 seconds for God's sake.
attach each licencse number to the number packets bought and if it goes beyond x then investigate
Ever heard of a thing called "identity fraud" perhaps? It's not that hard to get fake license(s) if you move in certain circles. Hence the junkies will go "shopping" from chemist to chemist.
Regular people like yourself and I will suffer no ill effects if we just play the game by the rules – is it so hard to have to do?
Two, it worked...maybe about a tenth as well as pseudoephedrine.
Even a placebo will work 20% as well as pseudoephedrine .
Speaking of which, when I asked one local chemist for a decongestant, they tried to sell me a "homoeopathic" spray. It actually contained real saline, which has some decongestant effect, so i don't know how it can claim to be homoeopathic.
i remember i went to buy some sudafed and i wanted the larger box, they would only sell me the small one without a prescription, and i think they were going to take down my details?! i didnt get it, i wanted the larger one cus it was more value for money. i went on with a runny nose for the next 2 days :|
Pharmaceutical companies tried to make a decongestant similar to pseudophedrine that can't be diverted and ended up with phenylephrine. It basically doesn't work. The medicated (or even saline) nasal sprays are good though, as long as you don't use the medicated ones for too long. They're also less convenient to carry.
The reason it's a hassle to get the pseudoephedrine is because a major source of pseudoephedrine for diversion is from community pharmacies.
Pharmacists are actually legally required to record the sale of pseudoephedrine. There's also the extra precaution because of its diversion. You might think that "of course I'm not doing something illegal" but the problem is that the individuals doing the 'pseudo-running' (going to many different pharmacies to get small amounts of pseudoephedrine from each) are really damn good at it. They don't ask for pseudoephedrine. They give you all the right symptoms and state that they tried the phenylephrine to no avail and don't want to carry a nasal spray around and it's the pharmacist that ends up recommending the pseudoephedrine. Sometimes the pseudo-runner is just getting paid to do it, so looking out for 'undesirables' is pointless also. It's impossible to know who is doing it. So you should try to not take it personally and just go with it, and hopefully appreciate that this is all a consequence of a very small number of people doing the wrong thing (and NOT because the pharmacist doesn't like you or enjoys heckling sick people).
Some information on pseudoephedrine diversion:
http://www.pfizer.
http://www.police.ns
As of April 2008, anyone wishing to purchase a product containing the ingredient 'pseudoephedrine' without a prescription will by law be required to produce photo identification, or alternatively, non-photographic identification issued by a government agency (e.g. birth certificate).
Hey do you have a source for strictly needing an ID? The act/regulation make it clear that it's a recordable sale but there is nothing about requiring identification. But pharmacies usually ask everyone for ID as a policy to avoid discrimination.
Project Stop actually *needs* an ID because it's based on the ID number, but using Project Stop is not legally required in NSW at the moment. The police is working on it though.
Are there any guidelines under PROJECT STOP about when a purchase should be refused?
I had a time when a pseudoephedrine sale was made 40 minutes ago at a different pharmacy and the individual's address was far from local. That's enough to be suspicious and make further queries.
But i wonder if they own the pharmacy they can or cant?, unlike the bigger chains. I mean if i own a deli, i can sell what i want right? or do all pharmacist's have to answer to the guild or something.
All pharmacists in Australia are legally required to RECORD the sale. It also tends to be the pharmacy policy to require ID (in some states the ID is necessary to use Project STOP). It's also a professional obligation to refuse the sale if you're reasonably certain that it will be diverted. You can refuse the sale on these grounds. You can also refuse to supply a medicine if you think it will be harmful. But in a situation where you don't wish to supply a medicine for other reasons (e.g. morning after pill for religious pharmacists comes to mind) you have an ethical and professional obligation for continuity of care (i.e. find a practicable solution for them regardless of your personal beliefs).
That happened to me a year ago.
Man. That sucks.
I don't give a crap, target the criminals not the honest people, politicians always want to take the path of least resistance.
What would be your solution? Targeting the pseudoephedrine source seems pretty logical to me. And community pharmacy is a very major source. Don't forget that the diversion process itself is not difficult and can be performed by anyone with some basic equipment. And Project STOP has been proven to clamp down on diversion.
Although admittedly, the NSW system is broken. A pseudo-runner might get refused by one or two pharmacies because their acting is not up to par but eventually they'll get some. They need to make Project STOP compulsory (i.e. centralised system).
why can't they just attach each licencse number to the number packets bought and if it goes beyond x then investigate
That's what Project STOP is:
http://www.projectstop.com.au/faq.html
I've become like you ... I've since learned to just put up with the annoying symptoms and keep a box of tissues handy. The cold & flu tablet vendors are without any business from me. It took me a while to wake up to it.
That's the bottom-line though. There is no cure for cold & flu, only symptom relief. Your body needs to clear it. I just wait it out.
I got it no troubles, walked in gave ID paid walked out with pseudoephedrine based meds. Might help that everyone in the pharmacy knows me though.
Yeah, i had no trouble a few weeks ago when i purchased Sudafed.
I specifically asked for 'The ones with pseudoephedrine in them'.. She did ask what symptoms I had... I told her and she continued on with the purchase.
I was under the impression that they 'pen' your details down on a form. Then must enter this into a database, at the end of the day... Whoever 'manages' the database can then get an idea at how much any given person is purchasing. Anymore then 2-3 packs per week would raise flags, giving the police something to investigate.. Is this correct?
---
On the subject of a chemists duty of care.
I used to purcahse Mersyndol a fair bit. It was as easy as walking up to the back. Asking a non-pharmacist, she/he would then place the pills in a basket, hand it to the pharmacist.. He/She would say 'Have you used this before'.. I say yes. Done.
No questions like.. 'What are you using this for?' 'Was it recommended by a GP?' etc etc
This seems to be a nationwide problem, happened to me 2 weeks ago. I successfully bought pseduo in March for a cold with just a licence. Not this time!!
The chemist i normally go to said they no longer stock it due to break and enters. They know me. I believed them. Based on this knowledge of B&E's I went to local shopping centre with 3 internal chemists.
FIRST CHEMIST: girl told me with a smile on her face "All sold out, right in the middle of cold season". I said that's fine when will you have new stock. She didn't know what to do, as it seems her training only involved lying to people & saying "All sold out, right in the middle of cold season". Spoke to the pharmacist, he told me it's their policy to only sell to people with prescriptions. So the girl lied to me, the pharmacist may have been honest or lied to me as by looking at me he decided he didn't want to sell to me.
2ND CHEMIST: I see a middle aged well dressed lady buying sudefed original. Ask chemist boy for the product, he tells me "sorry we're out of stock", I told him I just saw a lady buying it as I approached the counter, he tried to convince me that it was the new PE version. I told him i clearly read "PHARMACY ONLY MEDICATION' on the box, so it was the original. His lies defeated he then gets the pharmacist. Pharmacist tells me they don't have any in stock but can order it for me. Basically the chemist tries to give the illusion of not having stock but will sell it to you if you return the next day when the 'stock arrives'. This is a lie & a inconvenience. They want to pretend they never have pseudo in stock to stop theft, so you can never buy it the day you want it. This rule apparently doesn't apply to well dressed middle aged ladies. So both pharmacist and chemist boy have lied to me.
3RD CHEMIST: Ask chemist girl for product, she tells me she'll have to talk to the pharmacist. Pharmacist tells me it's their policy to only sell to people with prescriptions. Because chemist girl gave me no clear answer & instead referred me to pharmacist, I had the feeling I was being judged by the pharmacist & depending on what you look like depends on whether they have a policy of only selling via prescription.
So quite the unpleasant experience. I've learned to regard chemist boys & girls as well as pharmacists as liars. I can only imagine how many times a day they lie to people about various products. You may say "well it's a non-confrontational approach it's safer for the staff to lie to people than be honest" . I wonder how many people believe their lies though & just consider it offensive to be thought of as a drug mule for a meth manufacturer.
It's seems just plain illegal that they will have a product in stock & available if you look the right way, but if they don't like the look of you they'll just lie to you. As I was on an afternoon cycle I was wearing a labourers HI-VIS work shirt which wasn't the cleanest & also messy hair due to sweating it up with a helmet on. Although not certain i'm guessing if I had gone to the same 3 chemists not looking sweaty & in a suit I would have got different answers. I plan to return to those chemists in around 2 weeks & test that theory. After that experience I bought sudafed PE from woolies which doesn't appear to do anything (which I already knew) so I had to make do with antihistamine for the sinus/nose run & just deal with a blocked nose.
BTW I don't recommend those nose sprays. They are physically addicting and people have been addicted to them for years. That is one way to keep sales up.
i must admit though, that I
1. Take Sudafed because it works..
2. Take Sudafed, because it gives me a little high/buzz that I need when feeling like crap with a cold.
I told him I just saw a lady buying it as I approached the counter, he tried to convince me that it was the new PE version. I told him i clearly read "PHARMACY ONLY MEDICATION' on the box, so it was the original.
The PE has 'Pharmacy Only Medication' on the box as it is a schedule 2 medication.
The Original has 'Pharmacist Only Medication' on the box as it is a schedule 3 medication.
The PE has 'Pharmacy Only Medication' on the box as it is a schedule 2 medication.
That isn't true. PE says "PHARMACY MEDICATION", as it's S2
That isn't true. PE says "PHARMACY MEDICATION", as it's S2
Sorry that's what i meant :)
*edit
But it still means the same thing...
Sorry that's what i meant :)
*edit
But it still means the same thing...
no it's a different label, so it was definitely the S3 product, that being the original
btw you can buy this craapy PE stuff in supermarkets too in packs of 20. That's how rubbish it is. SUPERMARKET MEDICATION.
no it's a different label, so it was definitely the S3 product, that being the original
I meant when i said pharmacy only medication to mean pharmacy medication
It involves the recording of the sale in the online database which is held and operated by the Pharmacy Guild of Australia.
Personal data being handled by a third party? Why aren't the foil-hat police all over this?
If I looked like one, sure, grill me.
I'll admit depending how sick I am, I might occasionally look like one.
I often wonder who actually buys the 'regular' ones. That could be embarrassing when paying at the checkout.
Yeah, because being 'regular' is a total embarrassment. Your own inadequacies are showing.
because it gives me a little high/buzz
Druggie Alert! The police are on their way.
I've never been outright refused but they will limit me to 1 purchase which is a pain because depending on what type of cold/flu I have I might need different medication.
The wait period to next purchase has jumped to 5 or 7 days now too. Used to be 3 from memory. In QLD anyway.
If I looked like one, sure, grill me.
If you saw the cute little Asian pharmacist at my Chemist you would happily get grilled :)
And I dont normally find Asian woman all that attractive!...
Back on topic... Pharmacists seem to be giving the third degree waaaaaaaaay to much these days. I went to a chemist to get Nurofen+ and got the 3rd degree for a bloody pain killer (this was before the codine thing). Some do it to be helpful, but they keep asking stupid questions it gets a tad annoying :(
I have never had trouble getting Codral Original as long as you goto a place that stocks them. I explain to the pharmacist that I once had the new formula and it gave me a nasal infection... which it did... and the only one that works for me is the original formula. Once I ran into a lady behind the counter who was more than happy to provide the originals as she believes that the PE ones are rubbish and only work well for 5% of people.
I went to a chemist to get Nurofen+ and got the 3rd degree for a bloody pain killer (this was before the codine thing). Some do it to be helpful, but they keep asking stupid questions it gets a tad annoying :(
Supposedly there's all these codeine junkies eating boxes of nurofen+ to get high, and severely damaging their digestive system. The trouble is I doubt it's true or in such numbers that they become a huge burden to the public hospital system.
I bet it's all about theoretical junkies eating theoretical boxes of nurofen+ and then costing the tax payer theoretical millions of dollars in hospital bills.
Back on topic... Pharmacists seem to be giving the third degree waaaaaaaaay to much these days. I went to a chemist to get Nurofen+ and got the 3rd degree for a bloody pain killer (this was before the codine thing). Some do it to be helpful, but they keep asking stupid questions it gets a tad annoying :(
Sorry about that. Codeine is addictive and the ibuprofen puts holes in your stomach. Is also not the ideal painkiller for certain types pain. If the pharmacist didn't need to ask you any questions the drug would be in the supermarket.
If the pharmacist didn't need to ask you any questions the drug would be in the supermarket.
There are questions. Then there is an interrogation.
Some pharmacists are happy and ask you minimal questions and it seems friendly. Others you are waiting for them to drag you out the back to wack you on the rack to torture your answers out...
Phenylephrine does absolutely nothing for me or anyone I have ever met.
I am honestly not sure why it can be sold as a decongestant. Product not fit for purpose. Thought there were laws about that.
It is not the people buying a box or two of pseudoephedrine tablets over the counter that is the problem. It is the guy being sold a pallet of them out the back. You cannot make a meaningful amount of illicit drugs out of a couple of boxes.
I've bought a few boxes of the original Sudo this winter. All I had to do was show ID. It's about the only medication I use when I'm sick, because it actually works!
Supposedly there's all these codeine junkies eating boxes of nurofen+ to get high, and severely damaging their digestive system.
Suposedly there are people who sniff glue and drink metho to get high. I don't see those being administered by pharmacists. Granted they have other purposes but the logic is the same.
If people want to abuse something they will find a way or switch to something else (often worse).
This "lets punish everyone because of a few" mentality is quite annoying.
Phenylephrine does absolutely nothing for me
It does nothing for my symptoms (if anything it made mucous production worse).
The strange thing was I had the opposite of the main side-effect. I cant remember if it said it could make you sleepy or promote sleeplessness but I had the total opposite.
The strange thing was I had the opposite of the main side-effect. I cant remember if it said it could make you sleepy or promote sleeplessness but I had the total opposite.
The package in front of me says 'may cause sleeplessness'. Strangely enough, nothing seems to back that up, the only real effect it has is high blood pressure.
Just done a bit more reading and that is pretty much all it does. There is very little evidence of it ever actually decongesting anyone, most studies found it equally effective as a placebo. Why are people selling it if it does nothing?
Before anyone asks the obvious, no I did not buy it. "We are out of pseudoephedrine products, you can have this or come back next week". Should have gone back the next week.
I ran into a lady behind the counter who was more than happy to provide the originals as she believes that the PE ones are rubbish and only work well for 5% of people.
Same here – I am a long term sufferer of colds and the like – I always use sudafed – and every time I get some the pharmacist always agrees the PE doesn't work. I tried it once – what a waste of money!
Suposedly there are people who sniff glue and drink metho to get high.
"Methylated Spirits" no longer contains "metho" (Methanol or "Wood Alcohol") because people WERE abusing it.
Most of the modern "White Out" material etc don't use the stinky volatiles any more for the same reason (and so of course don't work as well).
Potentially 4 to 6 tablets of Paracetamol / Codeine mixture at once can damage your liver (from the Paracetamol, not the codeine), while the anti-inflams plus codeiene will damage your stomach.
The reason Codeine is sold mixed with stuff is to stop people making morphine from it, the same as Pseudoehedrine is used to make speed..
This "lets punish everyone because of a few" mentality is quite annoying.
Yes, its damn annoying that drugs and chemicals that WORK are being removed/adulterated/controlled because of abuse, but unless you can work out a way to stop the abuse, it won't happen..
And it SUCKS!!
TTFN
Clint
"Methylated Spirits" no longer contains "metho" (Methanol or "Wood Alcohol") because people WERE abusing it.
So... what does it contain then?
Edit- Some brands have denatonium, some still have methanol. I can guess which regions prefer the denatonium version.
I've never had issues buying them, but do get asked for ID. I'm in WA. I too feel that the new formula does squat, but I also know there really isn't much you can do with a cold except ride it out.
In south Africa I noticed you can buy 200mg pseudoephedrine tablets (no paracetemol attached) over the counter, no questions asked.
In south Africa I noticed you can buy 200mg pseudoephedrine tablets (no paracetemol attached) over the counter, no questions asked.
I wonder if they have a booming amphetamines industry?
but they keep asking stupid questions it gets a tad annoying :(
Indeed (but I don't expect them to understand this)
Having been in London recently, you can buy all this stuff straight off the shelf (self serve) in any Boots store.
So, why are we treated like children and or drug pushers here? Nanny State.
I get some the pharmacist always agrees the PE doesn't work. I tried it once – what a waste of money!
Twice I've bought PE from a chemist. 1 lying pharmacist told me it works just as well as pseudo-ephedrine but for a shorter period, & 1 lying sales chick said exactly the same thing (different chemist). I don't think pharmacists should be selling snake-oil masquerading as decongestants & recommending it just because they have decided not to stock the decongestant that works.
If Chemists & pharama companies see no loss of revenue due to selling snake-oil why would anything be done to either invent something else, or invent a pseduo pill matrix that can't be used in meth production.
And another thing... Pharmacists have the most abusable drugs on earth in their safes (, The very strong opiates. Why aren't people breaking into chemists for those. Did you know pain killers are sold on the street for as much as $50 a tablet ($1000 a box), and yet I"M supposed to believe theives bother to break in and steal sudafed original!!!
1 lying pharmacist told me it works just as well as pseudo-ephedrine but for a shorter period, & 1 lying sales chick said exactly the same thing (different chemist)
Ask them if they can prove this by showing you clinical studies from medical journals showing the effectiveness of phenylephrine compared to pseudo ephedrine and then you will be happy to buy it.
I would love to see their reaction.
Or show them this
"Restrictions have been placed on the sale of PDE in the USA in an attempt to control the illicit production of methamphetamine. This has caused a switch from PDE to PE in many common cold and cough medicines. PE is a poor substitute for PDE as an orally administered decongestant as it is extensively metabolized in the gut and its efficacy as a decongestant is unproven. Both PDE and PE have a good safety record, but the efficacy of PDE as a nasal decongestant is supported by clinical trials"
British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology
http://www3.interscience.wil
I've had the issue before where a pharmacist told me it was prescription only.
Now, I'm a big guy with a lot of tatts, earrings and a shaved head. I know it's not prescription only, so decided to go the discrimination on appearance angle. I asked the pharmacist for what they had said in writing so I could take it to the attorney I'd be seeing about a discrimination suit. 30 seconds later I had a box of Sudafed in my hand.
Yea, it may have been dramatic, but I'm sick to death of pharmacists pretending they are doctors. Some tool has given them a little power and they think they can wield it over people. Seriously, if I go in and ask for a box of neurofen, I don't want to play 20 questions with some wanker who couldn't make the cut for med school.
What would be your solution?
End prohibition. Would be nice if it worked, but it does not.
All we get is a massive amount of crime and corrupted police and officials.
You want to stop break-ins? Then just sell it.
And when some meth-head causes trouble, castration on first offence to stop the idiots breeding.
That isn't true. PE says "PHARMACY MEDICATION", as it's S2
Eh? Not here in WA.
I bought a box from the supermarket. Nyal phenylephrine HCl 10mg x 24. Has it changed?
Completely useless. Should I try 20mg?
I always thought if I was a drug baron needing some chemicals I would go to universities and pay pharmacy students a couple of grand
There are legislative and government oversight safeguards that prevents that from happening. You'll eventually get caught. Doctors or pharmacists who do serious things like that always get de-registered and I'm guessing you'd have to be lucky to avoid jail time.
Eh? Not here in WA.
I bought a box from the supermarket.
I have a box that says 'Pharmacy medice' on it... yet there are a number of products in the supermarket that have the same 10mg per serve. Since it does not actually do anything maybe they are undecided how to classify it.
Should I try 20mg?
I probably should not have, but I can assure you 40mg does not work either. That is the maximum daily dose... would not advise going higher since the only effect it does have is on blood pressure.
I figure the good codrals will be banned completely in a year or two so everytime I walk past a chemist I buy a box.. sometimes I ask for two and get them. I have nothing to hide. If the police want to raid my house and look for a meth lab, they are welcome.. until then I am getting what i can. At least the Codral originals work.
Since it does not actually do anything maybe they are undecided how to classify it.
I don't know the rules in WA but I would assume the QUANTITY is lower (number of tablets).
everytime I walk past a chemist I buy a box.. sometimes I ask for two and get them. I have nothing to hide.
I'd be careful how you store them.... will they still be effective in 2 years? 5 years?
When I was in NZ on holiday I couldn't get pseudoephedrine based cold medication. The replacement they had was absolute rubbish. Didn't do a damn thing.
They are legislative and government oversight safeguards that prevents that from happening. You'll eventually get caught.
Oh please. Plenty of well-know drug bosses – sorry, colourful racing/nightclub identities – operate openly for decades with minimal police interference. Aside from the odd insider trading or tax charge.
1 lying pharmacist told me it works just as well as pseudo-ephedrine but for a shorter period, & 1 lying sales chick said exactly the same thing (different chemist)
I must admit I've experienced this as well, except it's more like about 15 lying sales people and 7 or 8 lying pharmacists.
If you ask for the original formula, when they hand over the new formula and explain that the new formula simply doesn't work, usually they are pretty good. Sure you might have to give them some ID, but so what...
What annoys me is that we have to jump through these ridiculous hoops, and they claim it's to stop the production of amphetamines – which would, if it was having ANY effect, make the prices of such things go up... yet i hear that's not the case.
Although not certain i'm guessing if I had gone to the same 3 chemists not looking sweaty & in a suit I would have got different answers.
I'm usually wearing a suit when I go to the chemist (i need to wear it to work) and they still give me the 3rd degree.
All I require is 1-2 packets of Sudafed a year on average (the real stuff) for when my allergies get bad or I have a bad cold.
I tend to get sinus and ear infections and I find Sudafed helps prevent them or at least shortens the duration and makes life bearable.
So yes, a situation where the meds might go off the shelf completely concerns me.
we have to jump through these ridiculous hoops
Showing your license to verify your purchases can hardly be considered ridiculous.
they claim it's to stop the production of amphetamines
Pseudoephedrine is not the only product from which to make methamphetamine or methylamphetamine, but it's the easiest to get a hold of. Ephedrine is a naturally occurring alkaloid substance but isolating and synthesizing it from plants requires an industrial process.
which would, if it was having ANY effect, make the prices of such things go up
If they completely banned the possession or use of any substance containing ephedrine then yes, the scarcity would drive the price higher. However, junkies are quite crafty and as mentioned earlier getting a fake license isn't that hard of a thing to do. If they can buy a decent amount of packets each week, they can use the proceeds of selling these ($100 per packet of 24 tablets on the black market) to fund their lifestyle.
Again, there is more than one way to skin a cat, so if the pseudo supply dries up there are plenty of other methods with which to produce illegal drugs.
Maybe something on it in here.
http://www.guild.org.au/
Here too:
http://www.projectstop.com.au/
Project STOP is a decision making tool for pharmacists aimed at preventing the use of pseudoephedrine based products to manufacture methamphetamine. The system works by helping pharmacists to determine patients’ therapeutic needs.
Yep I had one recently who went up and typed a little label, called himself "Dr Pharmacist" on it and stuck it on a sudafed.
What's the point? These jumped up label typists think they know better than doctors and patients.
Edit: Spelling
Yep I had one recently who went up and typed a little label, called himself "Dr Pharmacist
XD
lmao, that's because of the Dispensing software. The program requires a Doctor and when you denote it's a non-prescription item it automatically makes the pharmacist the person authorising it.
Showing your license to verify your purchases can hardly be considered ridiculous.
If that were the case it wouldn't be a problem. It's no where near that simple. I find I basically have to beg to get the stuff. They always try to push that PE crap which just doesn't work. It's getting harder and harder to find places that will sell it. Like another poster said often they will make a judgement based on whatever and lie about whether they have it. I don't care if they make drugs out of it. Members of the public should have access to what is a safe and effective medication without needing to get a prescription.
Oh please. Plenty of well-know drug bosses – sorry, colourful racing/nightclub identities – operate openly for decades with minimal police interference. Aside from the odd insider trading or tax charge.
Na, trust me. There are really good systems to stop a pharmacist from ordering drugs of abuse and selling it illegally or whatever. I'm not talking about the police. The health department and more specifically the pharmaceutical services branch would find out before too long. I would mention exactly what the measures are but it would help someone trying to find a hole.
EDIT: so what you would really need is someone in the government making sure nothing ever surfaces.
Members of the public should have access to what is a safe and effective medication without needing to get a prescription.
exactly, +1000
again it's the honest people that suffer, complete BS.
Edit- Some brands have denatonium, some still have methanol. I can guess which regions prefer the denatonium version.
Interesting.. I only heard about it recently.
My sister-in-law is an emergency room consultant at one of Adelaide's major hospitals, and she was the one who told me.
She had been late home for a family get together thanks to a drunk loaded on metho. We had asked about any long term damage from the methanol (since it used to cause so many problems during prohibition) and we were told that for the last few years,it was methanol free.
And so far, every bottle I have checked is ethanol only (obviously with the stink/cloudy effect material added)
TTFN
Clint
Na, trust me. There are really good systems to stop a pharmacist from ordering drugs of abuse and selling it illegally or whatever. I'm not talking about the police. The health department and more specifically the pharmaceutical services branch would find out before too long. I would mention exactly what the measures are but it would help someone trying to find a hole.
But doesn't the pharmacist just order from the Pharmaceutical companies etc. There is medications that could easily be skimmed, and spillage etc. Is there any auditing? I'm sure if they really wanted to sell on the side they could if they own it, however i do like to think most are professional and wouldn't. Wonder if they think i am stressed, might just take odd valium or two lol. I am sick of these suites though making up silly rules.
If that were the case it wouldn't be a problem. It's no where near that simple. I find I basically have to beg to get the stuff. They always try to push that PE crap which just doesn't work. It's getting harder and harder to find places that will sell it. Like another poster said often they will make a judgement based on whatever and lie about whether they have it. I don't care if they make drugs out of it. Members of the public should have access to what is a safe and effective medication without needing to get a prescription.
100% agree. I had this problem at 9am with the chemist and I was so miserable from a night of no sleep because of hay fever i wasn't going to put up with the fezo tablets he was pushing (or whatever they are called) they just dont work for me.
welcome folks to decades of socialised medicine where bureacrats control the medical professionals who are supposed to heal us.
if you ask for it ill give it to you, else you're getting phenylephrine. i know what the clinical studies say, i know it doesnt personally work for me, but plenty of people like it and buy it happily (not just those that cannot tolerate pseudo, of which there are many).
if you ask specifically for it and are happy to provide your drivers license, you will get it. if you dont, find another pharmacy to give your hard earned to. pretty simple
maybe im just a more laid back pharmacist? hah. i dont care if you want pseudo, as long as you dont come in every day for a new box ill give it to you
Members of the public should have access to what is a safe and effective medication without needing to get a prescription.
That nice and all but there is no such thing as a 'safe' medication because they all have the potential to be misused and abused.
But doesn't the pharmacist just order from the Pharmaceutical companies etc. There is medications that could easily be skimmed, and spillage etc. Is there any auditing?
Yes it is very easy to track whether you ordered X amount from a distributor and check your sales levels/stock level as it is a legal requirement to record all sales.
Yes it is very easy to track whether you ordered X amount from a distributor and check your sales levels/stock level as it is a legal requirement to record all sales.
Yes that's what i thought, from what i know of even sheet's to record such things, my pharmacist is very meticulous about all that. There is even computer software now that dispenses certain medications.
Yep it's all audited. Records are kept at every level (pharmacy, supplier/wholesaler, manufacturer, surgery, PBS).
Yep I had one recently who went up and typed a little label, called himself "Dr Pharmacist" on it and stuck it on a sudafed.
As Babak pointed as it is a limitation of the dispensing software
What's the point?
The point is that they are required to record sales of pseudoephedrine by adding the medication to your patient history, which depending on the dispensing software and their pharmacy practise spits out label. Also by adding to your patient history they can see if there is any contraindications with any other medications you may be on.
These jumped up label typists think they know better than doctors and patients.
Many patients/google warriors think they know better than pharmacists and GPs
Many patients/google warriors think they know better than pharmacists and GPs
and a lot of the time they are probably right, the days of Dr's (let alone pharmacists) being considered Gods is finished, get over it!
Showing your license to verify your purchases can hardly be considered ridiculous.
No it's not, but having to dispute that the phenylephrine based one is useless every time you want some cold and flu relief is.
Many patients/google warriors think they know better than pharmacists and GPs
Why is that hard to believe. I know everything there is to know about any medication I'm on. In a way i'm a specialist, while GP's and pharmacists are jacks of all trades, and masters of nothing. They need to know about hundreds or maybe thousands of medications. I only care to know about what enters my system. So with an average IQ It's not that outrageous that a patient will know more than a GP or a pharmacist.
I have a habit of going in and asking for 'the real one'. It seems to work – most people I've spoken to have been apologetic about the wait to get it processed by the pharmacist and have agreed the other one is ineffective.
I do have this innocent look about me though, lol
Who's up for a decriminalise pseudoephedrine party (political that is:)
I think the solution is to make Project STOP mandatory for all pharmacies. Write to the health department and the pharmacy board of australia and request it. If everyone had to show I.D. and the sale was recorded on a centralised database, there would be no guesswork. Pseudo-runners would be obvious (have visited other pharmacies recently) and all legitimate users of pseudoephedrine won't have to deal with skepticism that pharmacists are currently forced to exercise as a professional responsibility.
Just legalize everything – drugs in open public venues, in the sporting arena, in domestic home, in institutions (work, edu) and in parliament. Denial has proven counterproductive.
Hey if people want Pseudo, then sure, make them provide ID.
That should be the end of it – there's no need for some pompous git behind the counter to look down his nose at you.
I often wonder who actually buys the 'regular' ones. That could be embarrassing when paying at the checkout.
You could always flop it out and ask for their expert advice.
Pseudo-runners would be obvious (have visited other pharmacies recently)
The trouble with that is, I personally would have been seen as a "pseudo-runner" in the past simply because I didn't have a car, and if I had a cold there was no way I'd be able to get to a chemist every 3 days to get another box of drugs – it is a 15 minute drive to the closest place with shops.
So to make sure I had enough tablets to last me until I could get into town again, I would have to visit 2-3 pharmacies. :(
I can't use the nose spray because as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it is so easy to get addicted to it. You are only supposed to use it for 5 days, but my colds last longer than that.
You are only supposed to use it for 5 days, but my colds last longer than that.
Then you should see a doctor and get antibiotics...
Then you should see a doctor and get antibiotics...
My doctor doesn't just hand these out and I have to say I agree with him on that.
My pharmacist did tell me I could get a script for the pseudoephedrine thingys in order to get a supply for more than 3 days, but I don't get colds as often now. I'm talking a couple of years back. If it became an issue again I more than likely would get a script.
I just don't see why – if they are taking your licence details – you can't get a supply for 6 days or so, or ask for 2 packets and get them at the same visit.
get a script for the pseudoephedrine
do that then. if you've got the option, it sure beats being treated like a crook!
Then you should see a doctor and get antibiotics...
A study (http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/36/2/539) examining the "common cold:
Viral etiology was established for 138 of the 200 patients (69%).
Evidence for bacterial infection was found in 7 of the 200 patients (3.5%)
Antibiotics are NOT indicated MOST of the time.
Whilst I support the practice of "seeing a doctor" I also support the use of a degree of common sense, hence should you be able to answer a few simple screening questions from a pharmacist re: pseudo use (history of high blood pressure etc) and then follow the directions of the packet.
This comes back to a risk / benefit equation – if you can be screened (the questions) thereby allowing a better assessment of individual risk, I see no reason to not provide these products via a pharmacy.
I find I basically have to beg to get the stuff. They always try to push that PE crap which just doesn't work. It's getting harder and harder to find places that will sell it.
That's tough mate – I suggest you find another chemist. Pseudoephedrine medication is still technically over the counter, albeit it's sale is restricted (for reasons we've already discussed).
I never have a problem buying it, dressed in trackies and a tshirt or a suit, and I always ask straight away – cold & flu tablets with psuedoephedrine please. Granted, they always ask "why do you want those" – but who is going to answer "so I can cook up some speed in a frying pan"?!
i though't it was just 3 days worth.
That's the standard packs of 24 tabs – usually 6 daytime ones and 2 overnight ones (with the mild sedative). AFAIK you can go back after 3 days and buy more, but the course of 24 tablets is quite often enough for people with just a cold.
The cold & flu tablets didn't work, and I just put up with a runny nose for a couple of days
Yeah I tend not to take anything, just let it run its course.
However this last cold I had, the amount of mucus I was producing was huge – couldnt sleep at night due to the pressure build up. Never experienced that before.
Codral cold and flu did NOTHING!
couldnt sleep at night due to the pressure build up
I've never been that bad. That sure sounds awful.
Years ago when I got a cold is wasn't a huge problem. But now, I find that it's a major setback for me, but at least it's only for a while and only happens about once a year.
I find staying away from public transport has been the best way for me to minimise the risk of getting sick.
agreed, it's freakin ridiculous trying to get anything from my local chemist these days. Such a shame that all the druggie wa**ers have ruined it for the masses. phenylephrine doesn't do frick all for me, but I'm tired of being treated like some loser meth manufacturer every time I get sick.
A few days ago I dislocated my shoulder and sprained my ankle.. got a prescription for panadiene (30mg codeine) but after that ran out.. I go to the chemist and ask for the non-prescription 15mg stuff, talk about 3rd degree.. they'd rather dish out liver destroying paracetamol-only stuff before harmless codeine. Can't even get nurofen plus without having to explain my life story lol.
Not to mention kids' paracetamol, what a rigmarole, they act like you're gonna go home and feed your baby the whole damn bottle.. argggh.......
Yep I had one recently who went up and typed a little label, called himself "Dr Pharmacist" on it and stuck it on a sudafed.
Dr OTC is the code at Chemist Warehouse (over the counter), like many computer forms, it's a field that needs filling in somehow.
I'm off to South Africa for the 200mgs, this whole thread can charter a flight between us.
Agree with the OP. we have effective drugs like pseudo ephedrine, and codeine, and we can't have the bloody things because of illegal drug manufacturers who want to make weird-arse pills out of them.
So we all have to suffer. I get a small box of pseudo ephedrine from a local pharmacy every so-often. You show your licence adn then you get them, they are pure, no other stuff, and quite strong, 60 mcg. I use them for when sinus headaches get very nasty.
Haven't tried to get codeine yet since the stupid new rules.
Seriously, who gives a rat's bottom if silly people want to take pills made by people in drug labs? Who cares?! If people want to make speed and whatever else, let them. Banning useful drugs that normal people use to control their headaches and what ever else is just wrong.
bTW, for the horrendous pressure buildup, when your front skull is full of concrete, try inhalations of noxious stuff like eucylptus, menthol, camphor etc. I got a little bottle of stuff years ago and it is great. It hurts like hell (drop it in a bowl of boilign water and inhale) but it loosens up the muck in your head. Gives some relief.
make weird-arse pills out of them
Pseudoephedrine is diverted to make methamphetamine (ice) or methylamphetamine (speed), both of which are very addictive substances that users smoke or inject. "Pills" per se are not a direct consequence of the misuse of pseudoephedrine.
Codeine, being an opiate based analgesic is misused by some people as a substitute to heroin. They crush up large quantities and then inject the mixture (usually the codeine/paracetemol powder with saline solution) to induce a narcotic effect similar to heroin. This is very dangerous for your body.
So we all have to suffer.
I don't see how having to show your license or describe your symptoms to a chemist in detail is "suffering". Project Stop also allows pharmacists to better determine consumers therapeutic needs.
who gives a rat's bottom if silly people want to take pills made by people in drug labs? Who cares?!
The people who are directly and indirectly affected by drug related crime. Speed & ice are two of the most insidious drugs a person can get hooked on. Some people will do terrible things just to get the money to purchase their next hit of gear.
Banning useful drugs that normal people use to control their headaches and what ever else is just wrong.
Nothing has been banned. You can still buy the "good" cold & flu tablets, albeit in controlled amounts. The same goes for codeine based pain medication – instead of buying packets of 96 tablets you are restricted to packets of 24.
Nothing has been banned. You can still buy the "good" cold & flu tablets, albeit in controlled amounts
Not really true. Pharmacists are choosing not to supply pseudo. I tried 6 local chemists on Tuesday. None of them stocked pseduo. It's starting to become the usual that more pharms stock PE rubbish that doesnt' work than PE & pseudo.
It's not legislation that's preventing them stocking pseduo at this time, it's likely insurance premiums.The fact is more pharms dont' sell pseduo than sell it now.
I got prescribed some Sudafed the other week cause of this massive nose blockage. Only bought the drug last night cause it was still persisting...
This stuff is awesome! Clear nose, I can sniff flowers!
Got rejected from three stores (even with the prescribed paper), because they don't stock any.
Suck a big task to even get it. But damn it's worth it... Will be keeping these for emergencies only. Seems like it's heaps rare...
Will have to stock up on these when ever possible.
Sorry to bump an old thread
I'd been taking it for two days with no improvement whatsoever... then I checked the packaging (I didnt buy it, wife did). Phenylephrine!
Within 4hrs of not taking the PE anymore, my symptoms improved. Never again.
The last time my wife was able to buy PDE, it was in this tiny little pack. Woeful value, and wasting my time with needless trips back and forth.
Why are the pharmacists so paranoid selling this? Are they held liable in any way if the PDE they sell ends up as MA?
I had a really stuffy nose and sore throat a few weeks back. Tried Codral cold and flu (the one with pseudo), found that it didn't entirely unblock the nose. Decided to buy the nasal spray (Drixine). It worked within half an hour and completely unblocked the nose. I recommend using the nasal spray – it works faster and is more effective.
I purchased some Psuedoephedrine the other week... walked in, talked to a Customer Service woman who asked me some questions, got a Pharmacist who asked the same questions and then some, sat down and got a box of 16 day and 8 night cold and flu tablets covered in stickers.
That with some Otrivin (protip: it's not meant to go further than your nostrils, your throat will feel funny for a day or so if you breath it in that far, like I did), and I was all better quicker than I thought I would be. It was good to have a drug that, y'know, actually worked.
I had the flu all of last week and although mostly over it , I did have some sinus congestion.
So , being that I am flying out of Melbourne tomorrow , I went to the local big warehouse type chemist and asked specifically for "proper" Sudafed.
I happily handed over my Licence and got a pack of 12 tablets.
Much earlier in the year I had tried the Sudafed PE stuff and found it only to work for an hour or so ... two hours tops.
If you're gonna take a decongestant , may as well take the good stuff.
Its a shame that the drug dealing – drug manufacturing lowlife have made our lives just that extra bit more complicated.
The problem with this is it is not illegal – the legislation is just that you have to check the person you are giving it to. It is still an over the counter (behind the counter) item.
Unless they have a suspicion that you are using it for the wrong purpose I am sure it is illegal to refuse to sell it to you.
I am sure some pharmacists take it to far and treat everyone like a criminal which is dangerous as if someone wanted to press the point I am sure a lawyer could have a field day with the inferance of a refusal would mean.
best stuff its demazin 12 hour, i think its actually demazin 6 hour now since the bullshit with the pseudo started.
it has the highest amount of the stuff as far as i know...means i need to buy less boxes to make alot of....i mean when i have a cold. :P
I am sure a lawyer could have a field day with the inferance of a refusal would mean.
This is the problem with out world the fact that lawyers are even mentioned is a joke. What do you think the outcome will be if a lawyer was involved you might get damages if you win ...
The same goes for codeine based pain medication – instead of buying packets of 96 tablets you are restricted to packets of 24.
I went (with a prescription for some anti-biotics as well) to a chemist, and said – doctor said the ole' Panadeine would help as well, assuming I'd get the usual dose of 12, and they sold me a box of 40 – no questions or comments asked !??!?!
I might go back to that joint if I ever need some non PE crap !!
I was considering the nasal spray stuff too, but have always steered away from them, and now I read they can be adictive ???
Yeah doubt it's illegal. There was that chemist that refuses to sell contraceptive pills and that turned out to be legal for him to do that.
The cold/flu crap, price wise...is it better to go through tablets or get the flu shot? damn i hate winter and melb weather.
Pharmacists are required as a part of their professional duty to ask these questions particularly because pseudoephedrine containing products are listed as schedule 3 (pharmacist only medication) by the TGA.
That may well be the case but refusal of service is a breach of the Trade Practices Act.
I for one am sick and tired of the crap heaped on consumers when attempting to legitimately purchase any of the old cold products even when your standing there dying of the flu.
It has gone beyond the boundaries of common sense.
Yeah doubt it's illegal. There was that chemist that refuses to sell contraceptive pills and that turned out to be legal for him to do that.
Of course it's legal for you not to stock something.
Not legal to stock and sell something, but discriminate who you sell it to....... except Codral apparently.
That may well be the case but refusal of service is a breach of the Trade Practices Act.
My point exactly. iT IS NOT a banned substance. By all means asks appropriate questions but never ever if I provide ID and my bonafides refuse or belittle me when asking for it. If they don't want to sell items that conflict with their conscience may be they should have their ability to issue scripts under the PBS removed to save them embarrassment.
What I find interesting is that my drivers licence in the fine print says that it's use as an identity card not related to driving is not authorised....
What I find most interesting about pseudoephedrine is that I believe it is counter productive. In my experience get yourself a big box of tissues & let your body get rid of the bacteria, toxins & junk & you will be over it in 48 hours. Take 'decongestant' an hoard the crab in your body and you'll be feeling crap for a week or more, as well as spreading your germs all around your friends & colleagues. I think the idiot who dreamed up the horrendously damaging Codral "soldier on" should be put in stocks & coughed & sneezed on by every victim of their scam. Our primary concern should be to limit the spread of such infections.
A few posters have mentioned getting the flu shots – Please Do! While most people who claim to have the flu have just a bad cold – they are not the same, a real flu has far more devastating and wide spread effects than a cold – you don't want to get flu. Last year I put my hand up early for a swine flu vaccine trial and despite being exposed to people who died from swine flu have managed to escape it so far (ok I also had one course of oseltamivir last year) Influenza, not just "Swine Flu" can kill.
I want to breathe easy already!!!
Relax Mr Cousins, you will find there's plenty of aftermarket places in which to obtain it
Please cite relevant section.
It isn't.
If you wear a tie and are polite, you always get whatever you want.
The lawyers are too busy doing coke to worry about Pseudoephedrine.
Ha ha ha! Good one Stealth. :-D
The cold/flu crap, price wise...is it better to go through tablets or get the flu shot?
As tsq said, the cold and the flu are two different things. While I would also recommend to get a flu shot every year, it won't stop you from getting a cold. Cold tablets only mask the symptoms of a cold, and don't do anything to speed up the actual recovery.
Relax Mr Cousins, you will find there's plenty of aftermarket places in which to obtain it
If I was him I could buy my own chemist
A Pharmacist has the right to refuse sale of any medication where he believes there is cause to do so. That is the law.
People getting all full of themselves thinking they know the law. You have to becareful what you read on these forums!
Too many issues dealing with Pseudoephedrine – that is why they refuse to even stock it. Too many hold-ups and break and enters. It's a great drug otherwise.
lol I thought I was the only one. Ive personally noticed that the new 'PE' models of these cold medicines are abolute shit.. except the paracetymol and codeine in some of them, they dont seem to do much. Especially phenelephyine or whatever the replacement is called.
I try to get proper psudofed when possible, but they look at you with such a suss look.. The other stuff isnt worht anywhere near the 10-15 bucks they want to charge you
I just went to the doc for a sick certificate for work as I've got a crappy cold and forgot to ask for a scrip for pseudoephedrine based tablets as yeah, that PE stuff does sweet eff all. Dammit!!!
Once I was at a chemist and asked for cold and flu tablets, and she gave me the PE ones. I told her the phenylephrine doesn't do anything at all, she said 'you're not the first person to say that.'
I had to laugh when I was in Bali, just make sure you read the ingredients when buying 'Panadol'. Some interesting contents ! One type of panadol contains caffiene (which really, when you think about it makes sense since many headaches are caused from lack of caffiene when your body is used to it), and I think the 'Cold and Flu' panadol had pseduoehedrine from memory. If all the chemists were linked into a central database then I can't see why your average citizen can't buy it over the counter provided they produce ID. I strongly support this ID approach since I know through my work the level of abuse that goes 'hidden' in our society. How one can still buy those megaboxes of nurofen containing something like 46 tablets is beyond me.
Edit: just a funny side note, my Aunt mentioned she accidently took a double dose once (as she completely forgot she already took some) and she was saying she was up and about vacuuming the entire house and doing a spring clean when she had the worst flu...
I love the original Sudafed. I'm really lucky 'cause my pharmacist and my doc both know me so they know I'm not "drug seeking" or whatever. It's really good considering that so many different meds don't work for me (especially codeine based ones).
With regards to the break-and-enter thing, why don't pharmacies install locked metal cabinets or safes where they can put the risky stuff (they probably already do it for things like hard prescription drugs), then they dont have to worry about people breaking in to steal it.
Criminals dont break into pharmacies to steal prescription amphetamine products like Ritalin or Dexamphetamine or prescription opiates because they know the products are stored in safes or hard-to-break-into cabinets so the same would apply to PE products.
The other option is to add shutters, bollards and such to prevent break-ins in the first place.
One type of panadol contains caffiene (which really, when you think about it makes sense since many headaches are caused from lack of caffiene when your body is used to it),
Caffeine is an adjuvant of paracetamol.
I waltzed into the pharmacy yesterday.
Ask for box of sudafed, go through the standard: "this for you? Yes", "Any pre-existing medical issues? No?", "Would you like day or night? Errrm...Night I guess?"
Puts the box down, I ask if its the real sudafed. Sure is.
Only time I had to get my wallet out was when I paid for it.
I went to the pharmacy last week, explained to the pharmacist my symptoms, (pressure in sinus etc) and he gave me sudafed without me specifically asking for it. And it was the proper pseudoephedrine one.
phenylephrine... for some freaking reason it made me drowsy.
Same. I went back to the pharmacy and asked my pharmacist why the "daytime" tabs were making me fall asleep when the cold wasn't and they said:
Probably not the phenylephrine, many cold & flu medications also contain codeine which would make you sleepy.
So they sold me Dimetapp Sinus Pain tabs instead, which contains paracetamol instead of codeine with the phenylephrine.
And — still sleepy.
So I read the back of the box:
Dimetapp PE Sinus Pain provides non-drowsy relief...
Warning
Phenylephrine may cause sleepiness in some people.
So that pisses me off.
1) The pharmacist should know that.
2) They shouldn't be allowed to call something non-drowsy if they know that is not true in enough cases that they also need to put a warning on the box about sleepiness.
And no I don't look like a junkie, I live in a nice suburb, it was at my regular pharmacy (anyone with kids knows that means practically weekly visits for one thing or another, even if it's just first aid supplies) and I haven't bought any other cold & flu tabs other than the ones they sold me or adult cough medicine or anything like that for probably a year. So either they just don't stock the good stuff (it is a small shop), or they thought I was a lightweight for falling asleep from tiny traces of codeine and genuinely believed the other would work.
After all that, it didn't. I had to fight the cold off the old fashioned way with time off work, sleep & chicken noodle soup.
Next cold I get I'm shopping somewhere else – don't care if I have to drive further. They really should just put the PE stuff next to the cough lollies so that everyone knows they are just a gimmick.
I recommend using the nasal spray – it works faster and is more effective.
True, but for most people, if you use it for more than 2 days you get rebound congestion. Pseudo also makes you feel better ;) though thats a just a bonus :P
I told her the phenylephrine doesn't do anything at all, she said 'you're not the first person to say that.'
Certainly isnt. In fact the medical, pharmacy and pharmacology researchers have been saying it for a while.
The stuff is crap and in some studies, if taken at safe doses it's no better than placebo
I feel for the pharmacists – pseudo puts them at risk in a number of ways. But I must say, Project STOP is a bit of a joke and I resent being treated like a criminal when asking for safe, effective treatment for my symptoms. And no I'm not referring to being questioned and asked to produce ID – I'm referring to attitude, misinformation etc ("actually this one works just as well...", "I haven't heard of those studies...", "sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave").
Well I went to my chemist yesterday after reading this thread and asked for some cold and flu tablets, 'but not the PE ones, the ones with the good stuff.. er... the original stuff in them.'
She paused and eyed me suspiciously and said 'you mean pseudoephedrine?'
I said yep. She eyed me some more and told me to show my licence, and she put it through as a prescription. I got Codral Original.
Huzzah!!!!
I resent being treated like a criminal when asking for safe, effective treatment for my symptoms.
It's pretty funny that of all the people who 'should' know how ineffective phenylephrine is, it's the pharmacists that treat you with suspicion when asking for the drug that has been clinically shown to be efficacious as a decongestant.
I haven't encountered the excuses like you have listed as an example, but claiming ignorance with respect to phenylephrine being useless is a pretty poor effort for a pharmacist who dispenses cold and flu tablets every day, and who really should know the pharmacological profile of the drugs they are recommending to countless people. It's not exactly an obscure drug, and it's not as if there is any shortage of reputable journal articles on the subject.
Exactly. Arguably, educating the community and patients about therapeutics and their effectiveness/safety is one of the primary roles of a pharmacist.
By advocating phenylephrine over pseudo, and simultaneously treating patients with suspicion/contempt for preferring the latter – IMO this constitutes a failure on the pharmacist's part.
Note: I fully understand that it is difficult and in some cases dangerous position for pharmacists. Nevertheless, patient care and efficient dispensing should come first.
By advocating phenylephrine over pseudo, and simultaneously treating patients with suspicion/contempt for preferring the latter – IMO this constitutes a failure on the pharmacist's part.
Totally agree with that. It's rubbish to be treated with suspicion simply for requesting the superior drug.
Note: I fully understand that it is difficult and in some cases dangerous position for pharmacists. Nevertheless, patient care and efficient dispensing should come first.
Pharmacists should not be bowing down to government legislation so freely. Pharmacists are meant to be knowledgeable in the area of pharmacology funnily enough, and as such they should be making an informed decision based upon the effectiveness of a given drug. They are making the situation difficult for people legitimately requesting appropriate medication for their condition.
For a pharmacist to be pushing phenylephrine as a suitable substitute gives one of two feasible situations; the pharmacist is really not on top of current medications, or they are being pushed by the pharmaceutical companies and don't mind selling drugs that are no better than placebo just to make a quick buck. Either circumstance is less than ideal for the community.
As for danger, if they can keep opiates, benzos, amphetamines, all the 'hard' drugs etc. in the pharmacy, I hardly see how keeping a simple precursor such as pseudoephedrine in a similarly secure manner is any more dangerous.
As for danger, if they can keep opiates, benzos, amphetamines, all the 'hard' drugs etc. in the pharmacy, I hardly see how keeping a simple precursor such as pseudoephedrine in a similarly secure manner is any more dangerous.
Good point.
Also, if Project STOP actually worked, there would be no need for pharmacists to superficially profile and grill people in need.
Not only that, it's not as if pseudoephedrine is the only possible route of synthesis for amphetamines...why crack down so much on an effective drug and treat innocent people like criminals when a clandestine chemist who was serious about amphetamine manufacture could quite easily find an alternative synthesis not using pseudo as the precursor...
A friend of mine needing some Sudafed Original today pointed out that having a cold/flu means looking pale & sweaty & having a bit of the shakes, no make up on and hair tied back but not brushed, & trackydacks thrown on – it's exactly when the average person is most likely to look like an addict!
I don't mind if the pharmacists feel it needs to be kept locked up out the back, or if they want ID to buy it, but I think this 'PE' stuff shouldn't be on the shelves in its place in the same packaging. It's deceptive & I think that if the pharmacists know it doesn't work that they should have the conscience not to sell it.
having a cold/flu means looking pale & sweaty & having a bit of the shakes...it's exactly when the average person is most likely to look like an addict!
LOL
And the more in need you are, the more you fit the 'profile' of some cranked up runner on a pseudo harvesting mission.
Damned if ya do... etc
Blame the governtment for the restrictions. It's actually not as fast as you think to record the details – especially when you have 10 scripts waiting to be dispensed. This recording restriction forces pharmacists to be lazy sometimes and just recommend the PE version – i for one am guilty of such a practice. However, for anyone to deny the sale of pseudo when it's requested and recommend the PE instead as a "just as good" alternative is bad practice.
In the end though, pharmacists are within their rights to refuse sale pf any medication, whether it be pseudoephedrine or even paracetamol.
Slightly off topic; has anyone see the tv series; Breaking Bad?
Just finished watching the first series .. great stuff.
Ive personally noticed that the new 'PE' models of these cold medicines are absolute shit.
They sure are, and are a total waste of money on me. They do nothing for me.
I had to sign my life away yesterday to buy some "Codral Original Cold & Flu Max", but they work well. And yeah, I also feel like a druggo buying these types of medicines for legitimate purposes.
Sigh. Laws in Victoria are apparently now coming in line with the other eastern states now – i.e. the recording process is mandatory. For a while it was optional and only some pharmacies would bother.
Just recently I got rather annoyed when trying to buy some Codral and the assistant was taking an awfully long time to record my details. Ended up getting a lecture from the pharmacist – sounded like he was quoting from whatever material the government probably handed out to him on the subject.
It's so awkward having to go in there and ask for the stuff, and then getting a dirty look because of the underlying presumption that you might be a drug manufacturer.
Laws in Victoria are apparently now coming in line with the other eastern states now – i.e. the recording process is mandatory.
Source? and when?
After my last post I thought I'd try it out. Not having a cold I thought might work against me, but anyway I popped into my local pharmacy around 8:30pm this evening.
Pharmacist: Can I help you?
Me: I'd like some Sudafed Original please.
Pharmacist walks around to the prescription area, gets a box, comes back Is this the one you were after?.
I quickly check that its definately pseudoephedrine and not the PE the assistant sold me last time which I can still see on the shelf behind him (not in the prescriptions area), I smile and say yes, thanks.
Pharmacist scans box at register. That's $16.85.
No ID required. I didn't need to argue about studies. He didn't give me a lecture.
Just money in his till and real sudafed in my handbag for justin.
No ID required. I didn't need to argue about studies. He didn't give me a lecture.
Just money in his till and real sudafed in my handbag for justin.
I don't think people are saying every single pharmacist treats every single potential customer with suspicion. I think it's more the fact that a fair amount of pharmacists regularly treat legitimate customers with suspicion because they want something that actually works, when they themselves should understand better than anyone why they are asking for the original formula.
Source? and when?
That's what the pharmacist told me. August was the start date of the mandatory reporting, he said.
I can't find anything to back that up – starting to think he was bullshitting me, frankly. But I needed some pills for my wife, and also needed to be somewhere, so just went through with it (but not without some amount of protest).
Like I said he read of all this crap about Project Stop which sounded like it was straight out of a press release. Won't be going back there then, I guess.
Recording has always been mandatory in NSW. It's part of the poisons and therapeutic goods regulation 2008.
I think it became mandatory in other states possibly because of the nationalisation of pharmacy board/regulations
Project STOP is garbage unless it actually prevents pseudo-harvesting. You could still go around to dozens of pharmacies in a day with a single licence. You would think they would make it so that a person can only buy 1 box per 48/72 hours without a doctors prescription or something.
You could still go around to dozens of pharmacies in a day with a single licence.
I would have thought that pharmacists wouldn't be expected to investigate other purchases you have made, but would simply pass on the information about the purchases made in their own store to authorities that could collate it and then choose to do something about it.
Yeah sudafed use to be great...hit up with clogged sinus atm and this PE stuff hasn't done squat. The minority of people that are going to abuse pharmaceutical drugs are going to do it with or without us dulling down the medication for everyone else and ID restrictions dont do squat unless there was a unified real time database.
In both Canberra and brissie in recent months ive had to show my ID and answer questions just to get neurofen plus.
In both Canberra and brissie in recent months ive had to show my ID and answer questions just to get neurofen plus.
What a joke, next they will be making OTC drugs pharmacy only, and then grilling you when you ask for panadol.
In both Canberra and brissie in recent months ive had to show my ID and answer questions just to get neurofen plus.
Codine became a restricted drug some time last year. Around July if I recall correctly. You can now only buy up to 24 tablets at a time. To get around this I just get a script for it. No questions needed to be answered at the pharmacy.
Around July if I recall correctly. You can now only buy up to 24 tablets at a time.
It's a maximum of 30 tablets. This is why many popular OTC painkillers containing codeine come in sizes of 15, 24 and 30.
And yes, pseudoephedrine is the best weapon against cold and flu symptoms. Newfangled PE cold and flu medications are garbage.
I got some original Sudafed to gIve it a try (coming down with something evil, I can feel it) and it worked wonders. Cleared my sinuses and I felt loads better.
I had to give the pharmacist photo ID, answer questions about any medication and got it.
Original Sudafed and Strepsils w/anaesthetic goodness are now staples in my winter arsenal.
How long do you have to wait between purchases? Just go to a different chemist? I'm not a druggo, just curious.
Strepsils w/anaesthetic goodness
i think they are lollies more than anything, but if they are actually working in numbing things then just be careful not to talk too much, as you may damage your voice without realising it because you deliberately dulled out your body's way of telling you something is wrong in your throat.
I would have thought that pharmacists wouldn't be expected to investigate other purchases you have made, but would simply pass on the information about the purchases made in their own store to authorities that could collate it and then choose to do something about it.
Thats not what I suggested. And in fact, it's more or less what happens now. Pharmacists are expected to look you up and determine if it is appropriate to sell to you based on how long it's been since you purchased pseudo products last.
God knows how inefficient the process is by centralising the info at the pharmacy guild and I question the program's effectiveness at stopping major clandestine laboratories – who are the major suppliers and do not get their precursors from pharmacies.
My suggestion was that there is an automatic restriction on the number you buy via a centralised system – i.e. the pharmacist physically cannot print a label out and legally sell it unless "computer says yes". That way it takes the onus off the pharmacist if some runner is trying to the buy the another box 5mins later.
My suggestion was that there is an automatic restriction on the number you buy via a centralised system – i.e. the pharmacist physically cannot print a label out and legally sell it unless "computer says yes".
I guess I was questioning whether it should be the pharmacist declining the sale of the product to the drug runner (like a bartender responsibly serving alcohol, but without any bouncers standing at the door of the pharmacy), or if the information of the successful sale should just be passed on to the police, who then deal with the drug runner and the evidence.
Drug runner goes to 20 pharmacies and is told no by all of them, in desperation could begin to behave irrationally & inappropriately, threatening harm to the pharmacist, staff, other customers, perhaps breaks into one at a later time wearing gloves and police have no real lead (how could they possibly get a warrant just because someone tried to purchase something at another location down the road but never actually bought it)
vs
Drug runner successsfully purchases from 20 pharmacies, showing photo id at each location which was recorded and the information given to appropriate authorities to decide how they want to approach the situation knowing that person should have in their possession at least 20 boxes, and there is evidence to back it up.
You could still go around to dozens of pharmacies in a day with a single licence.
As I said on the first page of this thread -
I've got to the point where I can survive unless I get a cold but when I do get one I need the drugs that work and I am willing to go to as many chemists as it takes to get a decent amount of them so I can go home and hibernate for as many days as it takes to get rid of the cold.
By all rights, I should certainly have seen some kind of authority show up on my doorstep asking why I often buy these drugs. Nothing has happened.
Why even bother recording the details if they aren't going to check them?
It seems like a completely pointless exercise which does nothing but penalise the pharmacists for selling the drugs and everyday people for needing the drugs.
What a joke, next they will be making OTC drugs pharmacy only, and then grilling you when you ask for panadol.
Nah, most people have amphetamine precursors sitting around in the bloody spice rack!
It's only a matter of time before you have to pull out your licence to buy nutmeg, cloves, star anise, etc.
If you think it's annoying for you when you ask for pseudoephedrine products, think of how annoying it is for the pharmacist who has to label and collect details of every single transaction for it for their careers.
Its not a choice either. A pharmacist in WA has recently been charged for it. I do not want to be one of them. i have something better to spend my money on rather than pay thousands of dollars of fines.
Also, some of the attitudes of people don't help. Sure you're sick, but it is the pharmacists duty to make sure it is the right medication for you. As someone already said, you should be able to buy this stuff in a supermarket from a checkout chick that doesn't have a pharmacy degree. This is what is drummed into pharmacists at pharmacy school and intern level.
I agree that it is not entirely the peoples fault though. Most Pharmacists are always at the back now, doing jobs that should be relegated to pharmacy assistants. They were taught how to give out these products so they should actually be doing that as the S3 regulations state. They also should not make judgements until they have heard the full side of the patients story, these days they are all too willilng to just take money and see people out the door as fast as possible.
Also, Pharmacy is fast becoming dominated, I'm ashamed of myself to say, poor communicating people who only have an interest in earning a solid salary. Their attitudes towards patients and customers are not a prime example of the healthcare side of things.
In the end its not any one persons fault for it all coming to this. I would just like to see my customers get what they need and get better ASAP.
or if the information of the successful sale should just be passed on to the police, who then deal with the drug runner and the evidence.
The Police are busy enough as it is without having to chase down junkies who are buying a few "squares" to trade for points of speed [1 box of pseudo based med gets you a point of speed].
The whole idea of Project Stop is to reduce availability to those with nefarious intent. Sure, they can still get a box each week or so, but it is an efficient mechanism in restricting suburban "cooks" from being able to operate freely.
You would have to agree that this effective measure to reduce people being able to cook speed (and subsequently contaminating their house and possibly their neighbours' premises) in the 'burbs is worth having to show your licence on the few times each year you have to buy cold & flu meds. Otherwise you're just being selfish.
The Police are busy enough as it is without having to chase down junkies who are buying a few "squares" to trade for points of speed
So what do the junkies do when they can't easily buy their box to trade?
How are they being helped from the scheme?
And "authorities" doesn't have to mean just police. What about the kids of these junkies? Should they just be left living in that environment, with their parents never receiving any genuine help? Or do you think that by not selling cold & flu tabs over the counter, junkies will just stop taking drugs?
in the 'burbs is worth having to show your licence on the few times each year you have to buy cold & flu meds. Otherwise you're just being selfish.
I live in Victoria, and already said that last week I walked in and bought a box without having to show my licence. :-P
The Police are busy enough as it is without having to chase down junkies who are buying a few "squares" to trade for points of speed [1 box of pseudo based med gets you a point of speed].
But do the junkies have clear sinuses? Truly, I want to know. :)
You would have to agree that this effective measure to reduce people being able to cook speed (and subsequently contaminating their house and possibly their neighbours' premises) in the 'burbs is worth having to show your licence on the few times each year you have to buy cold & flu meds. Otherwise you're just being selfish.
It doesn't sound especially effective, and I am not saying that to be selfish. If nothing ever happens and nobody ever checks on these things, what the heck is the point of recording the details?
I've bought enough pseudoephedrine with my sinus issues over the years to cook huge amounts of speed and I have never heard anything from anyone.
So what do the junkies do when they can't easily buy their box to trade?
Whatever it is that junkies do when they can't get a fix I guess? Smoke lots of cigarettes, swear, mutter?!
What about the kids of these junkies? Should they just be left living in that environment, with their parents never receiving any genuine help?
And this relates to restricting pseudoephedrine sales how? If anything monitoring Project Stop gives the authorities leads on people who may be involved in drug activity – who knows what follow up enquiries could lead to, perhaps the removal of the kids? Without it, the scumbag stocking up on cold & flu drugs is just another scumbag who isn't showing their ID.
Or do you think that by not selling cold & flu tabs over the counter, junkies will just stop taking drugs?
Not at all – Project Stop aims to curb the illicit use of the active ingredient in cold & flu tabs, which is arguably a very good thing. It also allows authorities to track who is or is attempting to purchase above what would be considered a retail quantity. There will always be a demand for drugs, but impacting on the supply, particularly at the consumer level, will produce the most tangible results.
But do the junkies have clear sinuses?
I LOL'ed.
If nothing ever happens and nobody ever checks on these things, what the heck is the point of recording the details?
They are some pretty big assumptions you are making...
I've bought enough pseudoephedrine with my sinus issues over the years to cook huge amounts of speed and I have never heard anything from anyone.
As have I, but given it's been spaced out over a number of years there is no problem. Most people who are happy using pseudoephedrine based drugs will buy 1-2 boxes for each cold they get, depending on the severity. Unless you are getting 40 or 50 colds each year there is no reason why you need to purchase large amounts of this particular drug...
There will always be a demand for drugs, but impacting on the supply, particularly at the consumer level, will produce the most tangible results.
I think the best way of producing tangible results is through proper education regarding drug use, rather than spreading propaganda/lies about drugs. With credible information, kids will be more likely to listen and learn, rather than shrug it off as rubbish.
Pretty long-term but really that's the only way you will curb demand for drugs. Taking away one supply route opens up another one, where as preventing a potential user using is more permanent.
That way demand for illicit drugs is reduced, and we can buy our legitimate medicinal pharmaceuticals in peace!
Whatever it is that junkies do when they can't get a fix I guess? Smoke lots of cigarettes, swear, mutter?!
Um, no, they wouldn't go without, they'd just use something else.
Petrol is pretty cheap, and you don't need to provide id to buy that.
And this relates to restricting pseudoephedrine sales how? If anything monitoring Project Stop gives the authorities leads on people who may be involved in drug activity – who knows what follow up enquiries could lead to, perhaps the removal of the kids? Without it, the scumbag stocking up on cold & flu drugs is just another scumbag who isn't showing their ID.
Where did I suggest no monitoring? I questioned whether it was more useful to have the pharmacist refuse the sale (at risk of harm to himself, his staff, and his customers) or for the sale to go ahead and the information be passed on to other authorities professionally trained in dealing with such matters that might be able to do the most good to actually help everyone involved. Arresting a junkie for possession could mean that police are provided with solid information about drug suppliers, junkies could be ordered into hospital programs to help them, and DHS would step in to help the family.
You suggested that I was being selfish to think such things, that arresting junkies would be a waste of police time, that it would be better for pharmacists to just not sell the cold & flu tabs, that somehow that action alone was going to clean up the suburbs.
And how exactly do you think the police have any valid leads to follow up on if the drugs are not sold? "Hello your honour, we would like a warrant to search the premises of an individual who we believe may be involved in some illegal drug activity, based on information that they may tried to purchase something but were turned away each time, so we don't actually have any evidence of drugs in their possession, except perhaps one box where that particular pharmacist selling it swears they believed it was for a cold, but we think that it's suspicious behaviour because the other pharmacists thought the person looked too dodgy, unfortunately they couldn't be here today, but you can still give us the warrant, can't you, please your honour?"
Some advice for people here, dont go to any of the "dirt cheap" pharmacy chains like Wizzard Warehouse, Priceline Pharmacy, Chemist Warehouse etc, none of them will sell the good stuff.
Ended up with some Sudafed PE which so far has done SFA to unblock my nose. (but that's only after one tablet). If my nose isn't unblocked after a few days of taking the Sudafed, I will probably need to see a doctor maybe (that or find a pharmacy willing to sell me the GOOD stuff)
As have I, but given it's been spaced out over a number of years there is no problem. Most people who are happy using pseudoephedrine based drugs will buy 1-2 boxes for each cold they get, depending on the severity. Unless you are getting 40 or 50 colds each year there is no reason why you need to purchase large amounts of this particular drug...
I'm not talking about just colds. I have ongoing sinus and allergy issues for which pseudoephedrine is the only thing that works and believe me I have tried everything else from neti pots to consulting an ENT.. for the past couple of years I would buy a couple of boxes of this stuff a week, every week, 52 weeks a year.
And yet, nobody has shown up asking why.
I am saying I have bought enough of this stuff for someone to at least be suspicious or question why. If someone did question it I'd be able to show why, but I'm saying nobody has. So I wonder if anyone ever does bother to check this stuff.
I suggest everyone reads this
http://news.ufl.edu/2006/07/19/decongensant/
The FDA cited six tests demonstrating no significant difference between phenylephrine and placebo.
Who wants to start importing the real 'shit' back on to the Australian market?
Sure you're sick, but it is the pharmacists (sic) duty to make sure it is the right medication for you.
Bollocks. If I want medical advice I'll ask my GP. I certainly don't want the third degree from a 20-year old with English as a second language.
Best solution for nosey pharmacists: say firmly, "My doctor recommended it". Repeat if necessary.
Sudafed PE which so far has done SFA to unblock my nose.
And that's the truth of it really. As Garnier linked in a previous post, it's effectively equivalent to a placebo.
I wouldn't bother seeing the doctor first – try to get yourself some pseudoephedrine (I normally ask for it by it's drug name rather than Sudafed or any other trademark name). I go to Terry White Chemists and Giant Chemist usually and have had no problems as of yet.
As Garnier linked in a previous post, it's effectively equivalent to a placebo.
I would have thought that its not in the interests of chemists to sell stuff that doesn't actually work.
But I guess when the alternative is spending big bucks to support the sale of the good stuff (including bars/grilles/whatever you need to stop ram raids etc plus whatever it costs in setup/time/training/etc to support STOP) many chemists have decided its not worth the trouble :(
no, they wouldn't go without, they'd just use something else.
Petrol is pretty cheap, and you don't need to provide id to buy that.
Incorrrect. Heroin junkies don't take ecstasy when they can't get a fix. Just like marijuana users don't smoke ice when they can't buy pot. Therefore, petrol is not a viable option for ice / speed addicts.
whether it was more useful to have the pharmacist refuse the sale (at risk of harm to himself, his staff, and his customers)
What you are suggesting amounts to armed robbery – consider the same scenario, but in a bank. People cannot threaten or do harm when they are refused service or not allowed to purchase or take something. This never has been nor will be considered acceptable behaviour.
Arresting a junkie for possession could mean that police are provided with solid information about drug suppliers, junkies could be ordered into hospital programs to help them, and DHS
Hogwash. Firstly possession is not usually an arrestable offence, a caution and Court appearance notice are the most common outcomes and the gear confiscated. At worst they'd be carted down the nick and made to wait while the paperwork is done prior to being cut loose.
Secondly, Police know better than to waste their breath asking who the next retard in the chain is. What addict would give up their source of good gear to get out of a ticket, of which they've probably already had 10 or more?!
Thirdly, rehab is voluntary unless Court ordered and as a condition of sentence (drug diversion) or parole...none of which takes place until months after the offence is detected.
for the past couple of years I would buy a couple of boxes of this stuff a week, every week, 52 weeks a year.
And yet, nobody has shown up asking why.
In QLD reporting is mandatory, as far as I know it's only voluntary or in trial stages in other states. From what I understand the bigger chains have agreed to sign on nationally but some of the smaller / independents haven't yet or won't until it's a legal requirement.
The only reason this stuff isn't prescription only is the lobbying power of the pharmaceutical companies – the same reason there is no restriction on the sale of it in the US (and the meth epidemic they experienced).
That way demand for illicit drugs is reduced, and we can buy our legitimate medicinal pharmaceuticals in peace!
That's a rather cynical way of looking at things. Demand will always exist, particularly for this particular type of stimulant, hence restrictions will always be in place.
You'd have to agree that showing your ID card is much easier than having to go to the doctor and obtain a prescription...
Bollocks. If I want medical advice I'll ask my GP. I certainly don't want the third degree from a 20-year old with English as a second language.
Best solution for nosey pharmacists: say firmly, "My doctor recommended it". Repeat if necessary.
That's your opinion, fine. But in reality, it's not how it happens. If you don't like that, why don't you go and cry to parliament to get the Poisons Act of 1964 changed if you don't believe in it?
It's also fine if you lie. In the end, whatever consequences will only affect you and not the pharmacist.
There is a difference in between someone being nosey, and someone performing their professional duty.
I wouldn't bother seeing the doctor first – try to get yourself some pseudoephedrine (I normally ask for it by it's drug name rather than Sudafed or any other trademark name). I go to Terry White Chemists and Giant Chemist usually and have had no problems as of yet.
I just say I want some cold and flu tablets that actually work thanks...
Codral Original Cold & Flu Max are very, very good if you can find a chemist willing to stock them.
I bought 2 boxes the other day, but I had to sign my life away. I felt like a criminal buying them.
What you are suggesting amounts to armed robbery
Really? I thought one had to be armed for it to be armed robbery.
Firstly possession is not usually an arrestable offence, a caution and Court appearance notice are the most common outcomes and the gear confiscated. At worst they'd be carted down the nick and made to wait while the paperwork is done prior to being cut loose.
And Human Services would be contacted regarding any minors involved. But if the minors are simply being quietly neglected then they are ok neighbours, right? Just as long as there is no danger to your property, that's the main concern, right?
Police know better than to waste their breath asking who the next retard in the chain is. What addict would give up their source of good gear to get out of a ticket, of which they've probably already had 10 or more?!
It was my understanding that a cautioning notice was just that, a caution, and that only one can be received. I would also expect the penalties of court appearances to increase over time.
And is all police work done by just asking addicts for an honest answer?
Thirdly, rehab is voluntary unless Court ordered and as a condition of sentence (drug diversion) or parole...none of which takes place until months after the offence is detected.
So then how is it better to simply refuse the sale so that no such help, voluntary or otherwise, is ever offered?
Demand will always exist, particularly for this particular type of stimulant, hence restrictions will always be in place.
So if the demand remains, what will the junkies do? Apparently they won't change to a different drug, and they won't cause any problems when refused, they'll just go home and smoke cigarettes until the country is free of backyard speed and its addicts, right?
I don't have a problem with pharmacists responsibly performing their duties, but I also think everyone else needs to as well. There are experts to deal with junkies and backyard drug operations, and they should be the ones to deal with the information gleaned by showing your licence when purchasing these products, not pharmacy staff.
And people with colds should be able to purchase stuff that works.
1,3 Dimethylamylamine is just as good in my books.
Its not. Not only are it's systemic effects more severe and poorly understood, it may cause false-positive methamphetamine results on drug tests.
Its not
In my books yes.
it may cause false-positive methamphetamine results on drug tests.
Although banned by WADA, the above statement is incorrect, its impossible.
the above statement is incorrect, its impossible.
It is possible, but don't take my word for it.
Dimethylamylamine: A Drug Causing Positive Immunoassay Results for Amphetamines
Haha this thread is still alive and kicking!! Possibly will be revived every winter.
I was recently overseas and managed to order some drugs with pseudoephedrine over the counter in Spain. Rest assured it was an effort, mainly due to the fact that my spanish doesn't go far past 'ola, uno cerveza por favor'.
Well it is getting worse now. I can't find Demazin anywhere. Every pharmacy I go to in Adelaide they say "we don't stock it any more, we have had too many break-ins".
I could choose to take the attitude that they are outright lying to me. I have experienced that; where I ask one person over the counter, they say "no", and then someone who knows me becomes freed up so I ask her and get results.
What I would like is if it were simply moved to being prescription-only. Then I would at least be able to see my doctor, get a prescription and be able to buy it just like any other prescription medicine. This way I won't feel like I'm being treated like a criminal when I buy the stuff.
I will also actually be able to buy it. Right now it feels like it has been totally taken off the market in Adelaide.
Does anyone here know where I can find it here?
What I would like is if it were simply moved to being prescription-only.
I'm pretty sure the strong stuff is prescription only, so you could be buying it that way already.
I would think those using it for cold&flu only need a box or 2 each year at the most.
If you've got some other chronic problem, then seeing a doctor is probably the wisest course of action anyway, rather than self-medicating with over the counter stuff.
If you bought it in a liquid form, and you didn't need it to be that strong, then your doctor could advise the appropriate dose to measure out. It could be more economical for you in the long run to buy it that way. Or your doctor might suggest other (newer? better?) alternatives.
yep your doc can write a prescription if he wants, the prescription only stuff is a repat item so you will have to pay full price but it's still only $11.
I can't find Demazin anywhere. Every pharmacy I go to in Adelaide they say "we don't stock it any more, we have had too many break-ins".
If you have bad hayfever go see the doc and get some Nasonex. The stuff changed my life :) I now dont feel like i have a cold everyday.
Have had a few fun encounters with the pharmacy over P-E products myself lately.
My wife suffers from pretty bad congestion in her sinuses sometimes, and finds that the P-E cold & flu tablets help (whilst new formula does not).
She went into the pharmacy on Bribie Island on a bad day asking for some Cold & Flu tabs, and got in response "You don't need that, take this instead (offering some allergy meds, which she already had and weren't helping). So left there unhelped.
I went to a chemist in Brisbane a few weeks later when she had the flu to get her some tablets, explained that the new formula doesn't help her much and that P-E had worked in the past. I get "O.K. but we will need your ID, and we don't keep them in stock so they will be here tomorrow arvo". Not much help for that night, but understandable. So I go home, tell the wife, she says "I need something now", so we go back to get something else that would help a bit. I wait in the car, she goes in, and sure enough, comes out with P.E. cold & flu tablets – from the same pharmacy I was just in.
Nice. It would seem the "we don't keep them in stock" is just an excuse to run a 24hr licence check (something I though could be done instantaneously). Or perhaps to test your resolve. Either way, frustrating.
Punish the innocent to stop the criminals. What a joke.
I didn't know it was this hard to get cold & flu meds with PE in them! I wanted some when I had a cold a few months back so I went to a "Chemist Warehouse" in town, saw them on the shelf in the prescription area, asked for them, showed my ID and was out of there in about 10 minutes.
Australia just needs to chill out. I'm in Ecuador and they sell you Pseudoephadrine and antihistamine in the same capsule.
I'm in Ecuador and they sell you Pseudoephadrine and antihistamine in the same capsule.
Damn that shit knocks me out and gives me a fever!
saw them on the shelf in the prescription area, asked for them, showed my ID and was out of there in about 10 minutes
That's been my experiance so far from different chemists and in different states. havn't had any issues anywhere so far.
I agree with all the issues re pseudo ephedrine. And that ineffectual stuff they try to sell you. I say to the Pharmacy, – it doesnt work. They say, "it doesnt work, FOR ME'. Some chemists are worse than others – husband has a sinusitis, and the crap they put you through to get the stuff that actually works is ludicrous. The ASSISTANTS look at you like they have a smell up their nose. National Pharmacies are the worst. Trouble is, they get you so riled up that you get all angsty like a druggie anyway, then of course, you have "confirmed" their suspicion.
But I take my scripts now to a pharmacy that has come to know me and much better.
Crikeys, we used to be able to buy these off the shelf in supermarkets and there were NO chemist shop robberies as a result.
A lot of psudeo-runners tend to be retires, they're usually lovely to talk to. My best codeine addict was a nice middle age lady, well dressed. People that look like junkies might be straightlaced. I not going to judge you based on appearance.
Pharmacy staff have no desire to act as policeman, tho. I don't think any of us appreciate being made the frontline on the war on speed. Pharmacists are usually just trying to follow the law and professional obligations, thus you get questioned.
Well, if they are druggies, but function ok, then maybe we just need to revise our criteria about what being a druggie really means then? Quite obviously, their habits are not actually damaging them, and I am sick of living in a nanny state simply because of the tiny minority of people who do things badly.
Actually, the pharmacists are fine, it is the damn front line counter staff who act all high and mighty. They dont simply ask for ID; they give you the look like you are high as a kite and smell!
Kensei writes...
Sure you're sick, but it is the pharmacists (sic) duty to make sure it is the right medication for you.
Bollocks. If I want medical advice I'll ask my GP. I certainly don't want the third degree from a 20-year old with English as a second language.
Best solution for nosey pharmacists: say firmly, "My doctor recommended it". Repeat if necessary.
Agreed on that score. I have been dispensed with tablets for blood pressure that were Half the prescibed dosage. Multiple times from the same pharmacy I have been dispensed with medication with the wrong name on it. It is not up to the Pharmacist to make sure the medication is right for me, if the Doctor has prescribed it, or it is available without a script. They do have the right to record the script. But listen to their advice? Nup.
What's with all the hate against pharmacists?
Most of my patients love the advice and service that I give them. And whether or not something's worked, I really appreciate the feedback.
It's just some people don't want to hear a bit of it. Fair enough, but we're just trying to do our job and not get sued when something goes wrong. So many people request a pseudoephedrine/phenylephrine-containing product when it's contraindicated. We know you're sick but we don't want you to get any worse.
Anyway, it's a requirement by law that we ask for ID. If you think it's too much of a hassle, get a prescription for it :)
I am happy to give you my ID, I am happy to have a conversation with you and I am happy to answer your questions.
What I detest is when I am told 'we do not stock pseudoephedrine'
'Really cause I got some here 2 weeks ago'
'I am sorry i meant we just don't have any at the moment'
'ok, when will you have some in stock'
'next week'
Then I go back the next day and get some. I am not certain but I firmly believe that they had some all along and the counter girl is on a power trip.
I find though if i can speak with the pharmacist from the start I have no issues at all.
So many people request a pseudoephedrine/phenylephrine-containing product when it's contraindicated. We know you're sick but we don't want you to get any worse.
That's the thing. Maybe you need to listen to the interaction between the consumer and the person at the front counter (not the Pharmacist) when someone requests psuedoephedrine. They dont assume you are unwell, they assume you are up to no good with it. Once you get to Pharmacist level the interaction is professional and caring, but you've got to get past the rotweiler to do that. And I am serious.
I dont have any issue with the Pharmacy asking for ID; it is the manner in which the interaction is conducted that is offensive to genuine users. Except that in my experience, the assistants assume you aren't genuine.
And for the record, I am a professional person in my forties, who is always well dressed in public. Yet I dread each time I need to get this treatment. As for going to the Doctor; sure, I could do that; but try getting a Doctor's appointment at a few hours notice. Or on the weekend. Or after hours.
Ah, you see, Fermanis has said exactly the same. It isn't the Pharmacist who creates the angst!
People ask for a cold and flu product in one of two ways. Either they don't give a shit what it is and just want something, they get phenylephrine (shock horror, this works for a lot of people). Or, they ask for pseudo in a number of ways "original, the real stuff, not that PE stuff", etc.
Then I simply ask for their ID for project stop, ask a couple of basic questions and give it to them
I don't see what the big deal is honestly. Perhaps some pharmacy assistants like to wield a bit of power? :D Just ask to talk to the pharmacist.
To the people complaining about Pharmacists being 'too nosey'. I don't give a shit if you want to take something to excess at the detriment of your health. I do however have an obligation to at least attempt to help you. And most people appreciate that.
Do you have to see the id even if you know the person? I notice i don't get asked for id sometimes but only when the people at the pharmacy know me.
I have been dispensed with medication with the wrong name on it. It is not up to the Pharmacist to make sure the medication is right for me, if the Doctor has prescribed it, or it is available without a script. They do have the right to record the script. But listen to their advice? Nup.
Mistakes happen a pharmacist gave me a dose, and it was 5x the original amount potent, ended up in the damn hospital overnight being monitored Arggh!.
Try looking at what you are about to take before swallowing it :P The dose is usually on the pack, on the printout they stick on and often on the tablet itself.
Try looking at what you are about to take before swallowing it :P The dose is usually on the pack, on the printout they stick on and often on the tablet itself.
I did but he said sorry i thought it was ml not mgl.!, no way for me to know. Human error happens but not nice if your on the end of it.
But I take my scripts now to a pharmacy that has come to know me and much better.
Same a lot easier than randoms.
Crikeys, we used to be able to buy these off the shelf in supermarkets and there were NO chemist shop robberies as a result.
I think its like the codiene thing, worried a new wave of secret Pseudo users out there. I mean to have a Lab surely you need 4000 pkts, not just 1 or 2.
Do you have to see the id even if you know the person? I notice i don't get asked for id sometimes but only when the people at the pharmacy know me.
I had a blocked Eustachian Tube ( ear problem) a few weeks ago. Doc says try some Sudafed (original), if there's a problem come back to me and I'll give you a script for it.
So I went to a Chemist Warehouse, showed ID and Blah Blah Blah, anyway it took me about 10 minutes and I had a pack of 10.
About 10 days later I was thinking that they worked pretty well, I'm wondering if I can get some more.
Go into another Chemist and see the Pharmacist there and said "Mate can I get some original Sudafed" he says yep I think I still have a packet here, doesn't even look up and literally tosses me the pack over the counter and said pay up the front.
No checks, no questions, not a thing!!
To top it all off I actually look like someone that you shouldn't be selling it to.
Yeah but they go from chemist to chemist buying a pack at a time, which is why they have that network now where you need ID. so they can stop the lab owners going from chemist to chemist.
I think its like the codiene thing, worried a new wave of secret Pseudo users out there. I mean to have a Lab surely you need 4000 pkts, not just 1 or 2.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I'd estimate the yield of amphetamine from pseudo can't be much higher than 60% in a reasonably well run clandestine lab. You generally never see more than 120mg pseudo in a single tablet.
I have no idea really, but I always assumed its large-scale illegally obtained pseudo (e.g. truckloads stolen/obtained from industrial distribution points) that was the primary precursor of what you find on the street.
they get phenylephrine (shock horror, this works for a lot of people).
Just because a sick person doesn't come marching back in complaining about the uselessness of the product that was sold to them, doesn't mean that it worked for them. Or that for those saying that PE truly does work for them, that a packet of butter menthols wouldn't have achieved the same results. ;-)
But I am all for pharmacists taking an active interest in the health and well-being of their customers. :-D
But I am all for pharmacists taking an active interest in the health and well-being of their customers. :-D
What, and quit show business ?
These are the same people who charge 12 bucks for 10gm of charred wood.
Customers are only a bump on the road to their first 10 million.
Try looking at what you are about to take before swallowing it :P The dose is usually on the pack, on the printout they stick on and often on the tablet itself.
So, you expect the patient to know the dosage the DR prescribed you, and whether the Pharmacist has given you the correct dosage. That may work for the person who is aged between 20 and 60 who has excellent vision, some knoweldge of pharmaceuticals, and is receiving regular medication.
The reason i picked it up was because the colour of the box was different. I wouldnt have a clue what the various dosages are because there are several active components in my medication and each of those components are in varying strength in each prescription. Mistakes like wrong dosage should NOT happen.
Think about the aged, low vision and mentally challenged people they service. Patients cannot be expected to think about dosage. Really, the average Joe Blow would not know the dosage the Doctor has described – who would know the recommended grams, milligrams or micrograms of a particular medication, for your age sex and weight, and further, whether the pharmacist had dispensed it according to that dosage, or whether you could even READ it!
O
deeisme...
Just because a sick person doesn't come marching back in complaining about the uselessness of the product that was sold to them, doesn't mean that it worked for them.
Excellent point. And just because some Pharmacies are reasonable in their supply of original sudafed, doesnt mean that most are. As stated before, get to know the Pharamcy and you will be fine. But life is not always that simple.
Just because a sick person doesn't come marching back in complaining about the uselessness of the product that was sold to them, doesn't mean that it worked for them. Or that for those saying that PE truly does work for them, that a packet of butter menthols wouldn't have achieved the same results. ;-)
I've personally had plenty of feedback from people regarding phenylephrine based products, citing their effectiveness. On the other hand, i've also received plenty of feedback regarding their lack of effectiveness. And for some people, like myself, neither work, and I have to use intranasal decongestants and corticosteroids. Everyone reacts differently to different medications.
What it comes down to is, if you want a pseudoephedrine based product, ask for it specifically. It really isn't that hard.
I hate being made felt like a criminal when I need to buy either pseudoephedrine or codiene.
Don't like leaving my ID at places where I have no idea of their privacy details or how they store and use my information
Wrote to my local member (Happens to be Julia) and was told that it's not actually law to show ID. Quote from the email:
"I have been advised by the
office of the Federal Minister for Health that there is no legislation
requiring a consumer to leave copies of their ID with pharmacists when
purchasing items such as Sudafed."
It's sad a small minority of people that use products for nefarious mens have cause such rouble and pain for all those that use the products for what they were inteneded for.
Anyway, it's a requirement by law that we ask for ID.
Nope. It's a voluntary scheme the pharmacies entered into.
What it comes down to is, if you want a pseudoephedrine based product, ask for it specifically. It really isn't that hard.
But that's the problem, it is that hard. Between my wife, my brother and I, we have been rejected 4 out of the last 5 times asking for it specifically (not directly, but getting the "come back in 24 hours" or "You don't need that, take this instead").
Now, I know sometimes the pharmacist know's best, but when we have specifically told them what has worked in the past, and what hasn't, and they proceed to tell you that you're lying, that annoys me. And it's not like I look dodgy or anything, this is dressed in business clothes most times, always looking respectable, and what on earth am I going to do with 10 tablets?
My beef is not with project stop – I understand that, but if your going to perform licence checks, then perform them and stop trying to impose extra measures to prove you have the power and can make people suffer if you want.
Jim Junkie...
But that's the problem, it is that hard. Between my wife, my brother and I, we have been rejected 4 out of the last 5 times asking for it specifically (not directly, but getting the "come back in 24 hours" or "You don't need that, take this instead").
Unfortunately there are some pharmacies, and some staff members, that may impose particular restrictions on certain products. Be this out of fear of robbery, or because they genuinely don't have stock, I don't know. You're best bet is to find a regular pharmacy where they aren't so anal about it, and stick to them. Hell, come to my pharmacy and i'll give you pseudo whenever you want :P. I certainly think some pharmacies take it all a bit too far.
Unfortunately there are some pharmacies, and some staff members, that may impose particular restrictions on certain products. Be this out of fear of robbery, or because they genuinely don't have stock, I don't know. You're best bet is to find a regular pharmacy where they aren't so anal about it, and stick to them. Hell, come to my pharmacy and i'll give you pseudo whenever you want :P. I certainly think some pharmacies take it all a bit too far.
On this, I agree. Fortunately, in 2 weeks I am moving to a new area, so I'll have a whole new set of pharmacies to try out.
As for the "Dont have stock" thing, well in at least one case we were able to prove they did (sent my wife in 15min later, and they gave it to her straight away). Really, in the end, that was what made me annoyed, not the fact that I was told to wait 24hr. Although, if you are actually sick enough to go buy cold and flu tablets, it's probably because you are in enough discomfort to require them, so they are just making you suffer for 24hr because they don't trust you (guilty till proven innocent?)
So yes, I understand that some places will always take it too far, and that it isn't fair to generalise against all pharmacists/pharmacies. I just wish they would understand how absurd the whole thing seems to the customers they are excercising their power over and how little they are really achieving through their behaviour.
Edit: I guess this is one time my alias really doesn't support my argument haha.
As for the "Dont have stock" thing, well in at least one case we were able to prove they did (sent my wife in 15min later, and they gave it to her straight away).
I would have been furious if I was lied to and would have made a complaint to the relevant industry group, The Pharmacy Guild, or whatever it is called.
I went to a pharmacy in the city here and walked out with dimetapp containing pseudoephidrine no questions asked.
Edit: I guess this is one time my alias really doesn't support my argument haha.
Maybe you meant gym and you cant spell....
Now, I know sometimes the pharmacist know's best, but when we have specifically told them what has worked in the past, and what hasn't, and they proceed to tell you that you're lying, that annoys me.
I would find that offensive given it is well established the pseudo is far superior to phenylephrine, has a much better documented safety record and in fact, some studies in the UK and elsewhere have found phenylephrine is no better than placebo at the currently recommended dosage for congestion.
DukeW, thanks for the link previously.
Interesting study. Strange however given the structure of DMAA is different.
No worries. With the exception of the benzene ring they are actually similar in terms of how they interact with receptors. I think they are broken down into similar products in the liver – which might be how it happens.
I had pseudoephidrine thrust into my face today without a fight, sorta like this;
Me – I'm feeling a bit sniffy.
Chemist – Here, have something that might actually work, pack of 100 OK?
I'm buzzed right now.
I had pseudoephidrine thrust into my face today without a fight, sorta like this;
Me – I'm feeling a bit sniffy.
Chemist – Here, have something that might actually work, pack of 100 OK?
I'm buzzed right now.
After being sick the last 4 weeks with a cold which was bordering on the flu and using all the standard stuff (panadol, strepsils, antibiotics, 10+ boxes of tissues, honey tea, chilli, garlic, Super Strength Horseradish & Garlic +C, general multi vitamin) I got a box of the old school Codral Original Cold & Flu.
Within 30 minutes of taking the first two tablets this morning I feel a heap better. Sure I'm just masking the symptoms but at the moment it's the best I've felt in 4 weeks.
pseudoephedrine FTW
If you have bad hayfever go see the doc and get some Nasonex. The stuff changed my life :) I now dont feel like i have a cold everyday.
Well it worked; I went to my doctor and he prescribed me Demazin and Nasonex with enough repeats to get me through spring. And I bought it from a chemist who had weeks ago told me they don't stock Demazin any more. :)
Well it worked; I went to my doctor and he prescribed me Demazin and Nasonex with enough repeats to get me through spring. And I bought it from a chemist who had weeks ago told me they don't stock Demazin any more. :)
hope the nasonex works well for you dude, I find it way better then demazin but it does take a few days to start working.
And I bought it from a chemist who had weeks ago told me they don't stock Demazin
Why did you give a liar your money?
Why did you give a liar your money?
All the chemists I have been to over the past month or two have adopted the same policy; tell everyone you don't stock it any more and then the number of breakins and hassles should decrease.
By adopting a prescription-only policy, you filter out a lot of the drug-traders and have a better chance of serving the people who genuinely need the drugs – like us lot.
I can see the sense in it as a business policy and am prepared to tolerate it. It should last a brief while. If government legislates that pseudoephedrine-based drugs are prescription-only, it will reinforce that approach and help to protect our much needed supplies. It was a lot easier to buy my Demazin the other day and I didn't have to show my driver's licence.
I'm sure others will think differently on this; what do you think?
In principle that is a good idea but the cost to consumers and the already struggling health system would be massive. Charging medicare for a GP consultation every time someone needs access to a cheap, reliable, safe, effective systemic decongestant is not a good economic decision.
Also, it would certainly decrease sales of pseudo and although I do not have strong evidence for this, I suspect it would mean a lot more sick days and lost productivity.
Altough it can mean less sick days because people won't be loading up on pseudo and going to work and making other workers sick :P Or if they do go to work we know to avoid the person with the runny nose.
PE is a placebo. It should be illegal for pharmacies to sell something that obviously does not work. Got to love the power that pharmaceutical companies have.
Altough it can mean less sick days because people won't be loading up on pseudo and going to work and making other workers sick
It could be argued (and has) that less mucus/coughing = less surface-hand contamination – therefore lower transmission rate.
Or if they do go to work we know to avoid the person with the runny nose.
haha or who you shouldnt mack on with at the after works drinks-gone-bad.
PE is a placebo. It should be illegal for pharmacies to sell something that obviously does not work
Placebo has been known to work wonders though.
PE is a placebo. It should be illegal for pharmacies to sell something that obviously does not work. Got to love the power that pharmaceutical companies have.
Can we assume that you are referring to phenylephedrine here and not pseudoephedrine (the topic of this thread)? Many of us will have seen the post earlier which links to the Uni of Florida report about phenylephedrine.
Can we assume that you are referring to phenylephedrine here and not pseudoephedrine (the topic of this thread)?
If you look at the packs sold, PE is the abbreviation they use for phenylephedrine.
i.e. Codral PE, Sudafed PE.
The pseudoephedrine products are sold as 'Original'.
Digging up a ageing thread, but damnit I hate this bullcrap.
Sick as a dog, ive been to 5 chemist and they all say no. Im right in front of them eyes watering, nose flowing coughing like a 90 yr old and they say no.
All offer me PE crap! i look each one in the eye and tell them that I know for a fact it doesnt work, and that its as useful as a 3 dollar box of panadol.
FFS if I knew a drug dealer Id be calling them up for some speed, its that bad.
Couple of chemists get broken into and good people who are simply and genuinely ill cannot get the product they know works and quality of life improves in a matter of hours.
Sigh!!
I agree. If someone is in need, they should be sold pseudoephedrine. The crap that is going on in pharmacies is bad practice.
If there is a reasonable chance that pseudo is indicated – sell it to whoever needs it, record their ID, enter it into a database and leave the rest up to police. If pharmacy sold pseudo is such a problem for the govt's war on drugs, then it should be their responsibility to follow it up – the problem is not going to be solved by screwing over patients in need.
FFS.
Opiates are a problem for similar reasons, but they're still stocked and dispensed.
The crap that is going on in pharmacies is bad practice.
Shouldn't bad pharmacists be reported the the Pharmacy Guild or something?
Shouldn't bad pharmacists be reported the the Pharmacy Guild or something?
Maybe. I don't know that the blame lies completely with the pharmacists. If they are unnecessarily rude, accusatory or unprofessional, then yes – but to me (ie someone who isnt a pharmacist and does not have authoritative knowledge of the system), the problem comes from higher up; the guild, the health Depts, the government.
I don't see what the point is of project stop etc if pharmacists still feel the need to practice this way and marginalise their patients.
It really should be as simple as 'if pseudo is indicated, then pseduo should be sold'.
Where is the mandate for project stop actually coming from?
The big players like Chemist Warehouse have jumped right on board the bandwagon in a big way. Whereas I've had a pretty good strike rate at the smaller non-chain pharmacies in terms of getting pseudo without any questions asked.
Someone is obviously applying pressure, and I suspect they're lobbying the big players first. Don't want to give anyone any ideas, but if the gov't was really serious they could make it law that all pharmacies have to sign up, but they haven't. So there must be some other force at play...
I don't trust the Guild at all – they exist to protect their own interets, no?
The big players like Chemist Warehouse have jumped right on board the bandwagon in a big way.
Have you seen who works in there? I almost have to call the Interpreter Service so I can understand what's going on.
Don't want to give anyone any ideas, but if the gov't was really serious they could make it law that all pharmacies have to sign up, but they haven't. So there must be some other force at play...
No I think thats a fair observation and suspicion – whatever one's conclusion – there's something very misplaced about how the scheme is implemented.
I may be wrong, but you'd think it would be a very easy law to pass. It would allow the burden to be shifted away from pharmacists and on to drug enforcement.
Bought a pack or codral original the other day the only question i was asked was if i was taking any other medication, handed over license and out the door.
I'm on Nasonex a prescription nasal spray.. Takes about 2 weeks for the stuff to work, but its pretty good.
Ive got terrible sinus 24/7 (had it all my life) and more often than not i cant breath through my nose.
Any chance of some more info on this? How long it works for, whats in it etc?
It contains corticosteroid which helps reduce inflammation. In severe cases you'll have to use it continuously. You'll need a prescription and can't get more than 1 repeat so it means a trip to the doc every 2 months or so. As mentioned it takes some time to start working but I've found it very effective for my chronic rhinitis. You might also want to get a referral to an ENT specialist to have your sinuses etc check out.
I'm not a qualified medical practitioner so all of the above probably BS :)
Ive got terrible sinus 24/7 (had it all my life) and more often than not i cant breath through my nose.
You need to see a GP, who will likely order a CT and either give you a medication (such as a topical corticosteroid) or refer you to an ENT.
Self diagnosing and medicating chronic sinus inflammation is a no no :)
Self diagnosing and medicating chronic sinus inflammation is a no no :)
No self diagnosing here, merely asking for info on something ive not heard of is all :)
My eldest brother had polyps on his adenoids at around my age (his was extremely severe though to the point he could not smell anything and taste was limited at best) and had surgery to remove them. Ive mentioned this to my GP who has checked and assured me that i dont have the same thing (his advice was to sleep on the opposite side to the blockage, which does nothing).
Ed: I do use Neti pots from time to time, although the relief this brings is rather limited if at all. I just like to know about things i havent heard of prior and also gives me things to dicuss when i do get myself to a ENT.
Cheers for the info :)
I had a similar thing. Basically a blocked nose with little mucus, chronic mouth-breather for about 10 years. CT scan revealed a chronic inflammatory condition. Had a course of topical corticosteroids for several weeks. The GP wasn't optimistic and believed I would need ENT referral, but when weaned off the inflammation never returned. So was lucky.
Ive got terrible sinus 24/7 (had it all my life) and more often than not i cant breath through my nose.
Any chance of some more info on this? How long it works for, whats in it etc?
You can try beconase 24-hr first and see if that helps. Same class as nasonex and is available over the counter.
With regrds to pseudo, only law is for the pharmacy to record name and address of patient. Project stop is only compulsory in qld afaik. It is good practice however to use it
You can try beconase 24-hr first and see if that helps. Same class as nasonex and is available over the counter.
With sinus issues with that kind of history, the only appropriate option is to start with a GP.
The big players like Chemist Warehouse have jumped right on board the bandwagon in a big way.
So, this is going to sound racist, but it's a statement of fact. I've never been sold pseduoephedrine by asians or indians at Chemist warehouse, they always conveniently are 'out of stock' when I try to buy it. But the Caucasian male and female pharmacist have no problem selling it to me.
I tend to wonder if some of the ethnic raced pharmacists might be on professional work visas and don't want to appear on the OPERATION STOP radar, so if you're young or scruffy they just won't sell it to you. It's really quite bigoted and perhaps they're looking out for themselves at the cost of patient[customer] care.
I also had an interesting expierence where I bought nurofen tablets 2 weeks after my last purchase. The Ethnic lass told me they have a policy of only selling 1 codeine containing product per month, and would only sell me it this one time. WTF@@@@ . That's got to be a blatent lie. It makes no sense.
I have sinus issues 6 months out of the year, and this no pseudo thing really strikes a cord with me. I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this way.
The thing I don't grasp is how pharmacists can ethically flog a product that has shown to be no better than a placebo at treating what it is supposed to treat. I'm sure they have some duty of care, and there is no way they could be ignorant of the non-efficacy of PE.
My girlfriend and I are sick at the moment and she asked for cold and flu medicine at the pharmacy opposite her work and they instantly gave her pseudo instead of defaulting to the PE product. I'll be shopping there from now on.
So, this is going to sound racist
It does.
never been sold pseduoephedrine by asians or indians at Chemist warehouse, they always conveniently are 'out of stock'
I've never been told this by anyone at CW. They always ask to see my licence, however, which annoys me.
But the Caucasian male and female pharmacist have no problem selling it to me.
I've only ever tried to get pseudoephedrine from a Caucasian pharmacist once at CW, and it was a pretty awkward exchange. I've no doubt she'd have preferred not to sell it to me.
That experience was probably on par with, or slightly worse, than any experience I've had with a non-Caucasian pharmacist at the same chain.
I think the ethnicity argument is bunk. You're drawing a pretty long bow based on a limited number of experiences.
Yep. So had to buy some Demazin original today, only thing that works of course.
"So you've tried the other medications, and they did'nt work?" *gestures to the PE rubbish*
Oh the swear words that come into mind...
I should have just said "have you met anyone who says they did work?" and then "ever heard of a placebo?"
stupid. rotten. idiots.
And they made me feel like a criminal and sit around waiting for 10-15mins while the pharmacist checked my ID – for buying like 12 x little blue pills, with a clearly stuffy nose looking miserable, my girlfriend there with me too. You would need hundreds of packets to make any sellable quantity of drugs.
Do pharmacists employ total morons?
The funny part was, next to me was an old lady complaining about their prices, and that Chemist Warehouse is much cheaper – and the girl behind the counter trying to convince her that CW are not as good – comparing it to a grocery store or something.
Well last time at CW I asked for the Demazin, showed them the old pack (as we wanted the 6 hour one which has some extra ingredient that works wonders), and we just got it. End of story.
The stupidest part is they try to act like they're professionals or something, with some useful advice you might actually need. Hell, even when I go to the doctor these days (or Quik-e-Mart, I can't be sure of the difference) I've read up about whatever enough on the internet that I'm more over the topic of my sickness than them, don't even get me started on some $15per hour pharmacist chick.
"are you on any other medication?" – why, yes, I'm a crack addict, and if you don't give me my freakin drugs I'm going to stab you in the freakin face!
Yep. Maybe I'll try that next time :P
Haha well written. I know what you mean. I understand they had to do something about it, but pharmacists can hardly all claim to be 'professional' after that recent 'fried with that' Blackmores scandal where Blackmores were working with pharmacies to sell a side dish of vitamins with people's orders as an attractive margin booster to pharmacists.
The other stuff is rubbish, it doesn't work.
You may as well get some analogues online.
Yep. So had to buy some Demazin original today, only thing that works of course.
Yeah I find the thought of possibly being lied to again by a ChemistWarehouse employee again so demeaning, that I couldn't even be bothered getting the stuff. I"m forced to use a nasal inhaler thing instead. Today is my 4th day using it
People can get addicted to these things for months and years at a time due to the 'rebound nasal congestion' people get if you use one for more than 3-5 days.
ChemistsWarehouse causing physical illness due to their repressive nazi pharmacists too scared to prescribe what actually works for nasal congestion and doesn't have addiction problems
I tend to wonder if some of the ethnic raced pharmacists might be on professional work visas and don't want to appear on the OPERATION STOP radar, so if you're young or scruffy they just won't sell it to you. It's really quite bigoted and perhaps they're looking out for themselves at the cost of patient[customer] care.
The other way of interpreting the same factual assumptions would be that the Australian pharmacists are complacent and lazy because they believe they can't be kicked out. But there would be no proof for that claim either.
So nice to be overseas and just walk into a pharmacy, ask for Sudafed and the response? Sure, no problem.
Have to come back here to Nanny State though :(
I"m forced to use a nasal inhaler thing instead. Today is my 4th day using it
Stop today mate, really. My GF had a blocked nose as Sudafed did'nt work, after about the 5th day using the spray, like you say, she got the rebound and her nose was completely stuffed. Very bad. Shes too scared to use that again now.
Give it a couple of days or you'll regret it.
CW in my area isn't too bad with giving stuff, don't even usually ask for ID.
Myself, I find its the other "brand name" chemists which get really uppity.
I'm off around Asia next week – definitely will be stocking up on pseudo and codiene while I'm there, hopefully its not going to be too dangerous getting it back!
Any one who's seen the doco Meth Epidemic, goes into great length the reason why overseas they dont ask for id and make you sign ya life away.
off around Asia next week – definitely will be stocking up on pseudo and codiene
I've been sudafed taking over for 40 years and it affected not has me!!!
My local pharmicist knows me very well and supplies me with over the counter home brand pseudo and codiene for my chronic sinus....I don't need to travel to Asia! If you make yourself known to your local pharmicist you should have no issues.
make yourself known to your local pharmicist you should have no issues.
Many, perhaps most, stand alone smaller chemists don't sell pseudoephedrine products due to a real or imagined perception that they will be broken into due to stocking it. I wonder if their insurance premiums are higher if they stock it so as long as they can sell almost the same amount of PE containing cold and flu products they have no incentive to sell real decongestants.
Unfortunately I have no other option than the pharmacy warehouse SoupNazis in my area.
Give it a couple of days or you'll regret it.
I"m only using the nasal spray once every 24 hours at night so I can taste dinner and get to sleep more easily. I"M hoping using it once a day instead of twice will give me a longer safe period of time before this rebound nasal congestion occurs.
Has anyone requested Pseudoephedrine but voluntary showed their Driver's/Learner's license before the pharmacy assistant/pharmacist responds?
Yes, I have my Drivers License openly in my hand every time I ask for some. I still have some trouble trying to get some
I"m only using the nasal spray once every 24 hours at night so I can taste dinner and get to sleep more easily. I"M hoping using it once a day instead of twice will give me a longer safe period of time before this rebound nasal congestion occurs.
Ditto for me – generally only one nostril at night so I can breathe easily, may be 3-4 nights a week. I've been doing this for a couple of years and don't have rebound congestion.
Many, perhaps most, stand alone smaller chemists don't sell pseudoephedrine
my chemist has about the smallest shop in Vic but still manages to keep home brand pseudo which is around 2/3 the price of sudafed.
I was using nasal spray some years ago but it gave me thrush. I've never touched it since. I now flush with saline solution which gives instant relief but not for very long.
was using nasal spray some years ago but it gave me thrush. I've never touched it since.
That does sound nasty. I knew you could get that with the dry powder asthma puffers but not liquid nasal sprays. was the infection in the sinus's themselves or in the back of the throat/mouth/tongue?
I guess one could drink straight after the nasal spray to protect against oral thrush but if it's in the nasal/sinus area not much you can do without going to difficulty.
Suit up. Seriously. Suit up and look bored. I only get the 20 questions when I'm in civies. NO PHARMACIST DARES TO QUESTION SUIT GUY.
Also works for generally getting better service in shops. Tie sold separately....
YMMV
Suit up. Seriously. Suit up and look bored. I only get the 20 questions when I'm in civies. NO PHARMACIST DARES TO QUESTION SUIT GUY.
What you're saying should be considered ridiculous and untrue, but unfortunately it's true, and shows the bigotry of pharmacists and 'special services chicks' . For reasons of exercise I will always cycle to local shops unless I need the car to cart stuff about.
So I wear a labourers high vis shirt to try and lesson my chance of being run over by cars, so instantly in the mind of the 'young professional' pharmacist i'm many runs beneath them, and more likely to be a 'pseduo diverter', and so the 'special services chick' will say "hmm we may not have stock of pseudo i'll check with the pharmacist" and then later come back with "oh I"m sorry , we're out of stock" To which I reply "oh that's fine, any cold and flu product with original ingredients will work just as well " and then i'm met with "ummm..... actually we're out of stock of all pseduoephedrine products [without actually even checking]
An obvious lie and as I say horrendous bigotry towards the working classes who apparently [in the mind of chemist chicks] are more likely to be in the drug trade. It's disgraceful!!!!! Australia used to be a classless society.
This has been enlightening. I was a big sinusitis sufferer for years since my teens. Over the last 5 years or so it has slowed right down, but late last year it really kicked up in a big way again.
To my surprise, I could not get any sudafed from any pharmacy in Adelaide. I had two left in the cupboard so took them, and if I knew they were going to be the last, I would maybe have only taken them when I was really really bad. Anyway, I was told by 4 different chemists I had to get a script from a Dr. Even my regular chemist said that.
So I went to the Drs (local clinic I have been going to for last two years since moving to the area) and he would not prescribe it to me. I do not look like a druggie, I was obviously suffering nasally, and he still said no. I asked why. He said straight up, verbatim "Because people use it to make drugs, and so I do not prescribe it to anyone anymore. You will have to find another Dr if you want it, but good luck with that."
Good luck indeed. I went to two more, and got much the same story. They flat out refused to prescribe it. So I gave up and got a nasal spray instead, which did SFA, but I managed to get through, though I did have to take time off work.
But now I am starting to get the twingy nose and tight forehead, and know in about 3 days I am going to be floored. Sudafed was the only thing that would relieve it. It sucks. But judging from the posts here, would I be correct in saying SA is the nanny state of all nanny states? Or am I missing something? I just want to be able to take a sudafed and get on with work if I need to. Instead I feel like I am doing something wrong just trying to get it. Sheesh.
I am thinking of going back to my childhood medical clinic, as they have my history on file and know about the sinusitis. But none of the GP's there know me personally anymore, and I haven't been there for a long time, so I am not sure if I won't get much the same reception.
Do others in Adelaide have the same problem? is it true I have to have a script, or was I told porkies by the chemists?
More people started watching breaking bad, so this happened.
I've never really needed any pills. Never been sick. Have a cold maybe every 1-2 years and it lasts a day. Maybe a case of the runs, but never felt sick lol.
I'M INDESTRUCTIBLE.
So I went to the Drs (local clinic I have been going to for last two years since moving to the area) and he would not prescribe it to me. I do not look like a druggie, I was obviously suffering nasally, and he still said no. I asked why. He said straight up, verbatim "Because people use it to make drugs, and so I do not prescribe it to anyone anymore. You will have to find another Dr if you want it, but good luck with that."
This country & it's ridiculous rules is getting more depressing by the day. A person who obviously needs treatment is refused the proper treatment, because they may make drugs? There's something terribly wrong with that.
I think it's disgusting that I have to be made feel like a drug addict, just because I want some Sudafed.
As usual here though – majority suffers for the minority.
was the infection in the sinus's themselves or in the back of the throat/mouth/tongue?
Back of throat & tongue. Took months to clear. I was using one of the Beco products on script – not Beconase, but I can't remember exactly which one. I think it had a cortersone additive.
Suit up. Seriously.
My pharmacist would freak out if man-in-black walked into his little shop. He'd probably take him for a health inspector, or politician, or sales rep! I'm in a rural community. Everybody around here wears raggy old clothes covered in cow dung! Grass is groing like crazy atm and haymaking season is almost upon us...think I might pack the caravan and go somewhere down the coast for a while! Salt air is what I need. Anybody ever tried the salt cave treatment?
http://www.dailyma
Anybody ever tried the salt cave treatment?
http://www.daily
You may want to regard the Daily Fail's health reporting with a degree of scepticism: http://hellokinsella.posterou
So I wear a labourers high vis shirt to try and lesson my chance of being run over by cars, so instantly in the mind of the 'young professional' pharmacist i'm many runs beneath them, and more likely to be a 'pseduo diverter', and so the 'special services chick' will say "hmm we may not have stock of pseudo i'll check with the pharmacist" and then later come back with "oh I"m sorry , we're out of stock"
I'm with you mate. In my current job I'm wearing high vis simply because I'm working with an engineering company and we all do. But the difference in service and attitude I get is incredible. It shouldn't be, but it is.
Do others in Adelaide have the same problem? is it true I have to have a script, or was I told porkies by the chemists?
I went to my GP and saw a doctor there who I've only seen once before (I've seen others and they have plenty of my details on record). He prescribed me Demazin with repeats. He also prescribed me Nasonex (with repeats).
I went to a pharmacy in the local area who had previously told me they "don't stock Demazin any more"; I handed the prescription and was supplied, no problems. They checked my drivers licence and were quite friendly about it.
So yes, there is an unofficial policy of "deny stocking unless supplied with a script". You just need to be well established with your GP to get the script. And have a sensible GP.
And yes, I need both Nasonex and Demazin. Nasonex as a daily preventative during this time of the year. Demazin when things get bad – I always carry one around with me in case I need it (eg. when bush walking).
Oh, and I am in Adelaide.
Suit up. Seriously.
It doesn't work. Seriously.
Case in point I rocked up to a local pharmacy after work one day. Got into an argument with the pharmacist about pseudoephedrine and project stop. Walked out empty handed.
Got into an argument with the pharmacist about pseudoephedrine and project stop. Walked out empty handed.
And that bloody project stop thing. Apparently it will tell the pharmacist if I"ve been sold a pseudophedrine product, and the date of my last purchase. Maybe it tells them all my purchase history. In my case I've bought it twice this year, yet after the Chemist Warehouse chick takes my licence and have me sit there for 10mins I still get the "I"m sorry sir NO PSEUDO FOR YOU!!! come back 1 year"
I mean what the hell, Isn't project stop supposed to help me deal with these idiot pharmacists as well as stop pseduo shoppers. At my local Chemist Warehouse apparently me not having bought it for months according to PROJECT STOP still means i'm a pseudo diverter.
Maybe those pharmacists are so paranoid they believe I have 20 different drivers licences in different names.
Can you bring it back into Australia? I've bought like 4 big packets in one go in Canada and they don't even blink. (it was on special for a few dollars)
In my case I've bought it twice this year, yet after the Chemist Warehouse chick takes my licence and have me sit there for 10mins I still get the "I"m sorry sir NO PSEUDO FOR YOU!!! come back 1 year"
I think I buy it three times a year, and have never been declined. I always go to the same chemist, answer the same questions in the same way, and always walk out with the generic Psuedo tabs, usually the day\night variety (although not this time around because I had plenty of the little blue tablets to get me by).
I always go to the same chemist, answer the same questions in the same way, and always walk out with the generic Psuedo tab
Well they always ask me am I in pain... to which I say no, Do you say yes or something?
I know sinus congestion can cause severe pain under and around the eyes it's just I dont' normally suffer such pain, maybe I have to start being in pain for their stupid questionnaire even though i'd be lying.
All you guys sound like druggies lol.
I supply medication containing pseudoephedrine quite readily if I deem the patient to require it. But I never go to it as a first-line product it unless they've tried other products or made a specific request for a pseudoephedrine-containing medicine.
Usually if they display the usual symptoms of a cold, have no contraindications and the date of the last supply was outside an acceptable time I don't see why not.
But I will definitely refuse supply for the patient's benefit if they're unfit for its use, whether they like it or not. That's the thing most people can't accept.
What pisses me off though is when someone comes in and requests a drug that will definitely be abused (slurred speech/smelling of alcohol, doctor shopping, regular usage, etc.). When they can't get their fix they abuse me and my staff like it was THEIR right that we HAD to give them drugs.
I had one idiot on the weekend come in asking for needles. I refused supply, he walked out to try another pharmacy and a few minutes later came back. Don't think the drugs did his memory any good because he asked the same question again. Seriously, who uses buttlerfly needles to kill their weeds.
Gah!
Well they always ask me am I in pain... to which I say no, Do you say yes or something?
Off the top of my head, the questions mine ask me are:
- What symptoms do you have? ("Headache, blocked\running nose, sore throat")
- Have you taken it before? ("yes")
- Do you have high blood pressure or other medical conditions? ("not that I'm aware of" or "no", last time chemist said "oh, you'd know if you did" to the former)
- Are you on any drugs containing paracetamol? (an answer in the negative)
- Do you need day and night ones or just day ones? (I usually get both)
- Do you have ID? (Yes, I give it to them, and proceed to wander around and wonder why on one sign wound care is two words and on the one next to it woundcare is one word)
Then they put it in a little red bag and I go and pay for it, grab some otrivin on the way out if I need it. I go home and proceed to ingest the suggested amount of both, and then I feel slightly human again. Hooray.
I had one idiot on the weekend come in asking for needles. I refused supply,
So your god complex even compels you to choose which junkies you sell needles to, so that they have less of a chance of dying of aids or hepc?
While the junkies you don't like the look off you tell them NO NEEDLES FOR YOU COME BACK 1 YEAR! while you quietly laugh maniacally to yourself 'if you're still alive'
supply medication containing pseudoephedrine quite readily if I deem the patient to require it. But I never go to it as a first-line product it unless they've tried other products
How do you live with yourself selling false hope like that PE rubbish to anyone, especially nice middle aged or elderly people who are even less likely to be pseudo diverters. Why not just sell them the real stuff that is clinically proven, and not the supermarket crap that does nothing
So your god complex even compels you to choose which junkies you sell needles to, so that they have less of a chance of dying of aids or hepc?
I refuse supply of needles to all people unless it's accompanied with a suitable medication (progesterone, morphine, insulin, etc.). There are needle and syringe exchange programs running in Sydney and I will refer them on. There are also participating pharmacies that provide Fitpacks, kits that allow for the safe and hygienic use and disposal of needles.
If word got out that you regularly handed out $5 for free from you home, you'd have a line outside your door. The same thing applies here. It's also the same reason why pharmacies are limited in the number of methadone/buprenorphine patients that can be enrolled into the program. We don't want to create a hotspot of potential abusers.
How do you live with yourself selling false hope like that PE rubbish to anyone, especially nice middle aged or elderly people who are even less likely to be pseudo diverters. Why not just sell them the real stuff that is clinically proven, and not the supermarket crap that does nothing
I can't remember the last time I ever sold something with pseudoephedrine to an elderly person. Most of them have so many contraindications that it'd be against my professional judgement to provide them with Sudafed or Dimetapp.
I don't recommend pseudoephedrine because it's not first-line therapy. They are less effective compared to nasal decongestants, have more side-effects (CNS stimulation, nervousness, excitability, dizziness, insomnia and tremors are common) and is not recommended in pregnancy, breastfeeding or children.
There's also a greater chance of an interaction occurring...you'd be surprised at the number of people that didn't know these products are a combination of 3-4 drugs and will happily take another 2 Panadols on top.
Finally after everything's considered there's the potential for misuse.
You might not appreciate it, but there's more to it than freely handing out drugs just because a patient asks for some.
I can't remember the last time I ever sold something with pseudoephedrine to an elderly person. Most of them have so many contraindications that it'd be against my professional judgement to provide them with Sudafed or Dimetapp.
Tell me how you feel about selling PE products with a single active. YOu must know 10mg taken orally won't help anyone for any duration of time. I"ve been lied to in the past and told it works as well as pseudo just with a shorter duration of action. I"ve also heard PE is destroyed in the stomach however it can remain active as a nasal spray but once again I got no positive effects.
There seems to be no therapeutic use for PE products at all except for [apparently] dilating pupils. I've heard 20mg of PE orally may have therapeutic use for some however it's just as dangerous as pseudo when it comes to raising blood pressure, yet I can buy the stuff at Woolworths . No scheduling, nobody to point out the dangers.
You're anonymous on here. What's your honest opinion as a Pharmacist about single active PE products. I put it to you they serve no therapeutic purpose and should not be sold in pharmacies as it's not a clinically proven decongestant when taken orally. I would suggest to you the only way to invent a non meth friendly decongestant is to admit oral PE products dont' work and remove them from the shelves of pharmacies. Such a move would surely be the financial incentive to discover a new pharama product that works just as well as pseududoephedrine without being a meth precursor.
It seems to me, it's the greed of pharmacists like you that prevent this ever happening. You won't remove PE products, you and your staff will continue the pretence that PE works, and there will never be an opportunity for a large financial investment into producing a pseudo replacement that works because the market has PE, that is the pseudo replacement, why do we need another?
Seriously, who uses buttlerfly needles to kill their weeds.
I use them to kill weeds in my fish tank.
I had to google what butterfly needles were though.
ETA: I find docs and sleeping pills more annoying. Restavit causes me to be a zombie the next day but stilnox is fine. Yet very few docs will prescribe it. I need a pill once a month or so when my sleeping patterns go wacky as I work night shift but I struggle to find it anymore. Now I generally just get 2 boxes every time I visit my parents as my doc there knows me and she knows I went to a sleep specialist and had a variety of tests done.
Restavit causes me to be a zombie the next day but stilnox is fine.
as far as OTC medication. you might want to try unisom sleep gels. They have a shorter half life than restavit. If you find you get less of a next day sleep hangover with those then you could maybe try buying benadryl tablets from overseas. They are much cheaper than unisom. Unisom 50mg cost $12 for 10 tablets, but on ebay you can buy 192 tablets 50mg for $20
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws
As a pharmacist, I find the anecdotal evidence for denial of supply in this thread quite puzzling. I just can't imagine why a pharmacy would deny someone a product, when there are particular programs and protocols in place to prevent misuse. Unless, for whatever reason, the pharmacy is not using project stop, why on earth would they make pseudo products so hard to obtain?
From a frontline point of view, pseudo misuse is not the real problem in Australia at the moment. It's codeine based over the counter analgesia. In the coming years, this will become a major problem for the health system, be it through opioid dependence/gastrointestinal based complications/chronic liver and kidney issues. The extent of this issue, at least in my area, is extremely concerning and I fear will continue to be so for some time.
It's codeine based over the counter analgesia.
As someone who used to take codeine every day, I agree. .
I'll continue to get my pseudo & diphenhydramine from overseas.. customs always check them and let them through fine.
Unless, for whatever reason, the pharmacy is not using project stop, why on earth would they make pseudo products so hard to obtain?
It makes no sense to me either. I can only guess in the case of The Chemist Warehouse [local to me a member of project stop] the vast majority of pharmacists are not Australians, they're they're here on professional visas, and they come from very poor countries such as fiji and the phillipines and under no circumstance want to be kicked out of the country. So they play it ridiculous cautious so as not to turn up as a blip on the operation stop radar. I imagine a quota of only so many purchases made per day/week
The other guess I had was that they believe people in dirty/oily labourers attire, or otherwise dishevelled from a hard day's manual labouring are such scum of the earth that they have 50 different drivers licences.
My 2nd guess is especially ridiculous but because of operation stop, I find it hard to believe I"ve been turned away from that chemist so many times with the 'i'm sorry sir, we're out of stock' , but then have no problem buying it a few suburbs away but unfortunately at an extortionate price. Both are members of project stop.
I know exactly how you feel.....
Basically I have a very low immune system, and get everything going around. I suffer cold after cold and annual hayfever/sinusitis.
So, I go into the chemist and ask straight out for something with pseudoephedrine as that P.E crap just doesn't work!
As I was laid up in bed with another illness a couple of weeks ago, I asked my partner to pick some cold tablets up for me (with the pseudo). The first week was fine, no problem, yes sir, no sir 3 bags full sir. The next weekend (I really only want the night time tablets and you can't get them on their own) he was refused. Come on guys, please. It's not like you can manufacture a drug lab with 2 packets with 2 weeks worth of pseudo. You have our licenses, you can check. Do you want my money or not???
My rant, sorry.
Well it just happened to me again.
I"m on day 5 of a mild cold. I don't feel sick, just the sinus problems. Walk into Chemist Warehouse ask for Demazin 6 hour. Get the usual questions, though today I answered with 'yes I have a headache' , girl takes my licence and says [wait for it] I will check with the pharmacist if we have any stock], she talks to an Indian Pharmacist gentleman, he looks me up and down. I smile at him. He enters my licence info into the computer, and at this stage I stop staring at him like a freak, and check my phone.
A few minutes later the buzzer thing they give you goes off, and i'm told... wait for it. 'I"M sorry sir we're currently out of stock'. So I say "Well they're all much of a muchness, just any cold and flu with original ingredients will be fine" . She does a deer in the headlights look for a second and then says "Unfortunately we don't have any stock with the same active"
I decided today was going to be the day I get banned from Chemist warehouse and explode at the 'special services girl' and the pharmacist but no, I just thank her for her time and walk for the door, BUT THEN WHAT DO I SEE!!! A middle aged woman in office attire with a pack of "Demazin day and night Cold and Flu" being opened {they enclose medication in a locked plastic box" I clearly see a S3 label and no PE in the title. Enraged I go back to the counter and report what I saw to lying chick. She tells me that she would have pre-ordered it and picked it up in person. Well I have no reply to that and walk out.
Ended up buying Demazin 6 hour for more than twice the price at another chemist , get home and check their website. OK it's true you can preorder stuff from their website and pick up in shop BUT it's impossible to pre-order any products contain pseudoephedrine, the 'BUY' icon is removed
http://www.chemistwar
Surely it must be illegal for pharmacists to lie to you. Don't they have hippocratic oath to be honest to customers and not straight out lie.
And btw, for anyone who thinks I buy this stuff every 2week due to my constant ranting. Previous to the purchase today, I last bought it in May, so I really do not see any reason for refusal.
And btw, for anyone who thinks I buy this stuff every 2week
I've been buying it every few months...for the last 40 years! I don't buy at Chemist's Whorehouse. They're too expensive and anti social!
They're too expensive and anti social!
Anti social and rude yes, more like droids but they sure are cheap, which is why I keep going there.
This demazin 6 hour is $5.99 at chemist warehouse, I had to pay $12.99 down the road because they wouldn't sell to me. I suppose I resent spending so much money in that place because they're cheap and yet they have the gall to lie to my face about this for no apparent reason.
It's hard to get an explanation out of a pharmacist that uses the 'we're out of stock line'. It's not like he's going to admit to lying, so there can be no rational discussion.
they sure are cheap
my local chemist sells me his homebrand psuedo for around $7(?) per dozen tabs. Does whorehouse sell homebrand?
I can't remember the exact price of my psuedo, I just checked and there's no price tag on it. I'm down to my last 3 tabs. Damn spring weather!!!
Chemist Warehouse are awful for trying to get decent meds when you feel like shit. They'll never sell me pseudoephedrine yet I can go to my local chemist and get no worries.
Same with Nurofen Plus, I get headaches a lot and due to a high tollerance have to take at 8 – 10 each time so I run out quickly, and Chemist Warehouse always refuse to sell me more than 1 packet per week, but my local chemist has no problems but it costs nearly double.
I dont' think CW have a 'home brand'
I get headaches a lot and due to a high tollerance have to take at 8 – 10 each time so I run out quickly
you take 8-10 tablets as 1 dose?, or even if you're taking that much in 1 day you could be doing your GI some real damage. If you want/need to continue to do this you should be on Nexium in an attempt to prevent ulcers. There's still the chance of sudden arrhythmic death syndrome.
I think obviously you should be on prescription pain killers or maybe migraine medication or maybe fixing whatever it is that causes your headaches like maybe... removing that brain tumour. That much NSAID's just can't be healthy
8-10 a day is MORE than therapeutic quantities pharmacists are allowed to supply.. Legally pharmacists are only allowed to supply Nurofen plus every 5 days which is 6 tablets a day. Believe it or not, in this scenario the chemist warehouse is more "by the book" than your local chemist.
If you need that much nurofen plus you need to seek alternative treatments or find the cause otherwise you're gonna get stomach bleed soon enough
*edit 8-10 a dose.. lol.. wow*
I get headaches a lot and due to a high tollerance have to take at 8 – 10 each time
wow! Are you sure they're just headaches? Migraines maybe?
I think obviously you should be on prescription pain killers or maybe migraine medication or maybe fixing whatever it is that causes your headaches like maybe... removing that brain tumour. That much NSAID's just can't be healthy
My Dr won't prescribe prescription pain killers or anti inflammatories for my Rheumatoid Arthritis – if I don't go on Methotrexate & Prednisone, I have to stick with Nurofen Plus or Voltaren.
It's hard to get an explanation out of a pharmacist that uses the 'we're out of stock line'. It's not like he's going to admit to lying, so there can be no rational discussion.
It's unbelievable that you're getting this crap from them.
You could try going to the doctor to get a prescription for the demazin. I wonder if they'd still give you the 'we're out of stock' line then? If yes perhaps ask if they can order it in for you?
Anything to try and catch these bastards in the act I say.
I have just been through this today, dragging my sick partner around trying to get some REAL sudafed and getting treated like a junkie!!
I took my frustrations out on the computer and found this http://www.psa.org.au/downloa
7. Pharmacists should act professionally when:
a. more than one pack is requested; b. frequent requests are received from or on
behalf of an individual; or c. theëbonafidesÃoftherequestisindoubt.9,14 Behaviours such as refusal to purchase an alternative recommended product or evasive or aggressive behaviour when therapeutic need is discussed have been noted as alerts to possible product misuse.22
Or that the product they are trying to palm off on you is shit maybe!
Grrr
Does anyone know any places in Adelaide that still 'stock it'
Ive been to two today and only ended up with PE which wasn't very effective.
A couple of years ago both of the chemists I went to stocked it.
Most of the time when I buy codral originals (new formula ones are as useful as panadol) I have been in motorbike gear. Sports gear, not Harley gear, but most people think its all the same anyway.
I always expect to get refused or be given a hard time, since it is supposedly the bikies who turn it into drugs.
But nope, just type license into computer and no hassle.
Just how many "E"s can you make from 28 pseudo-ephedrine tablets? From the way pharmacists react to requests I assume it's a number in the thousands!
I suspect this is more to do with making people think the law is protecting them, and coming down hard on drug traders, than any actual impact on the illegal drug supply stream.
If they don't stock it, ask if they have a homoeopathic alternative.. ;) Many will be more than happy to sell that to you instead.
Just how many "E"s can you make from 28 pseudo-ephedrine tablets?
Pseudo is used to make amphetamines, not ecstasy ;)
From the way pharmacists react to requests I assume it's a number in the thousands!
I suspect this is more to do with making people think the law is protecting them, and coming down hard on drug traders, than any actual impact on the illegal drug supply stream.
Absolutely agree.
The yield of cold'n'flu tablets-to-pseudo-to-amphetamine is actually quite low in well-appointed clandestine labs run by a decent chemist. Less than 60%.
There's generally 720mg or less of pseudo in any pack. So in a very good case scenario, with a skilled chemist its less than half a gram per packet.
There is no hard data on this, but given the above, I'd say retail purchased pseudo accounts for very small proportion of street amphetamines. Diverted and imported precursors are obviously the problem.
Radio Barrie writes...
Just how many "E"s can you make from 28 pseudo-ephedrine tablets?
Pseudo is used to make amphetamines, not ecstasy ;)
Oh dear that's my street cred gone through the window!!
There is no hard data on this, but given the above, I'd say retail purchased pseudo accounts for very small proportion of street amphetamines. Diverted and imported precursors are obviously the problem.
The scheeme is probably more about preventing chemists from selling boxes by the hundreds than stopping individual shoppers. Requiring them to have name and address details makes it harder to sell a huge bulk quantity to drug dealers, or process it in their own lab.
Some of the pharmacy workers probably just take it all to serious, trying to judge people rather than just giving them the packet and getting their details.
Or a more conspiratorial theory, the pharmacys which make it overly difficult are doing so because they have already bulk sold their reasonable allocation using false details, so can't sell more to the public because the quantity they are moving would raise suspicion.
Went into the chemist today, asked for codral original (or equiv) and was told all they had was the PE shit...
After explaining it didn't work, she basically shrugged her shoulders.
Cmon, I even walked in straight from coles with a bag of shopping for dinner, in my business clothes with my keys on a lanyard that has my workplace on it.... The last time I had cold medicine with pseudoephedrine in it was like 4 years ago, and I didn't buy it because I was under 18 at the time.
Ive bought 2 packs the past month from different chemists without any hassles, and i look dodgy as, guess ive just been lucky, but i always ask the pharmacist straight up i dont bother with the counter girls.
ecstasy is an amphetamine
Indeed, however similar to methamphetamine there is still no route from pseudoephedrine to MDMA. I can understand why ephedrine containing products are so regulated, it seems the government cracked down on the mdma precursors years ago and most of the people who were on these drugs swapped to methamphetamine, and now here we are... With pseudoephedrine heavily controlled and the 99% of the population that do not abuse these are not able to get access or find it too intimidating (as I have found out from others)
Safrole and piperonal the MDMA precursors have little medical use to the general public, and are heavily controlled, and rightly so... They have been used in diet pills and chinese medicine as an appetite suppressant and for energy, but yes these are the effects of amphetamines... even if they are somewhat weak.
Pseudo/ephedrine and ephedra extracts are also heavily controlled in the same manner, except Pseudoephedrine has a legitimate medical use for the general public.
I have no issues with Project STOP as I am neither a recreational drug user, a backyard chemist and have not bought any .. ever as far as I can remember (I am 21 now). I simply like to know what I am taking and/or prescribed, and I have taken an interest in this because this same discussion comes up whenever researching the alternatives to pseudoephedrine, which I have had issues accessing for relief.
Off to the doctors tomorrow, I had needed to go anyway for other reasons, lucky I caught this cold before I made the appointment (if you can even say that's lucky?)
Ive bought 2 packs the past month from different chemists without any hassles, and i look dodgy as, guess ive just been lucky,
Might depend on where you live. Brisbane and Adelaide sound like the worst places to buy pseudoephedrine.
Brisbane, because it's in qld, the most over regulated state in Australia, home to both the 'upskirting' offence in the criminal act and Operation stop for pseduo control at a retail lever [and very proud they are to have exported that annoyance to other states – bless them].
Adelaide because supposedly South Australia is the meth production capital of Australia.
As other guy said, reality is that pseudo is imported, diverted or stolen from warehouses in huge quantities, not bought 720mg at a time from a chemist. My local pharmacist actually went to jail for pseudo diversion and even cooked meth himself.
Off to the doctors tomorrow, I had needed to go anyway for other reasons, lucky I caught this cold before I made the appointment
At many pharmacies they'll tell you 'We only sell pseduo on prescription". In the waiting room of my local medical centre has a sign on the wall saying 'we do not prescribe pseduoephedrine'
wtf
Some chemists claim that they don't have sudafed at all.
I asked one if they had Sudafed, and the pharmacy assistant started crapping on about the demazin PE stuff and how awesome it was. Asked again if they actually had any Sudafed and they said no.
I refuse to pay for PE based medication – does absolutely nothing to help congestion and runny nose.
I refuse to pay for PE based medication – does absolutely nothing to help congestion and runny nose.
Amen, and what's worse is that PE will raise your blood pressure in the same way as pseudo at standard 10mg dose, and yet they sell PE at supermarkets, nobody there to ask you if you have blood pressure problems or to say 'if you're over 65, only take on dr's advice'
At 20mg dose where there's debate that PE may have a slight therapeutic effect it becomes more dangerous than standard 60mg dose of pseudo. I've tried PE at 20mg, did nothing for me.
My local pharmacist actually went to jail for pseudo diversion and even cooked meth himself.
You know it's bad when they talk about it using words such as "cooking".... That its self implies how difficult it is to produce something resembling methamphetamine even if you aren't a chemist or even medically trained in any way. This is why we have explosions from meth 'labs' because whilst people may be able to give it a go, safety is hugely ignored or not understood at all.
I had my doctors appointment today and completely forgot about even asking for pseudoephedrine or alternatives that work, that said I'm feeling on the mend anyway.... I'll just soldier on like most australians do since these restrictions have come into play.
ecstasy is an amphetamine
Apologies pharmacist, quite right. Though in common parlance (and often law enforcement) it is considered distinct on the basis of effects.
I should have said, ecstasy isnt derived from pseudoephedrine – as mentioned safrole, piperonal (and formamides) being the watched precursors.
been many years since i've bought sudafed
now it costS $14.95 for 12 60mg tablets
approx. $1.24 per tablet
OUTRAGOUS
Yeah I paid $13 for 12. Don't know who's doing the price gouging here. Maybe the pharmacy to make it worth their while to stock pseudo: Supposedly higher risk of break in's for a chemist that stocks pseudo. But maybe it's the distributor that have raised the price, perhaps due to extra security and paperwork required in manufacture and stocking in secure areas.
However I think it's chemists price gouging because I assume you bought Demazin 6 hour relief, as it's maybe the only product that comes in 12 tablets. I paid $13, you paid $15, but at Chemist Warehouse [at the time I bought this] they were $6. Wide variation in price.
I went to a pharmacy here in brissy on my girlfriends behalf, she was sick at home nd had asked me to get some night n day cold and flu tablets. I walked in and kindly explained my situation and told of how she had bought a some supermarket cold n flu tablets and they weren't helping.. The first thing the guy asked me was for ID, ok no problems I'm awear people make drugs from the pharmacy strength stuff but he keeped me waiting 10 minutes in an empty store while he stuffed around on a computer punching in my details! very uncomfortable feeling..
I wish they would just set up the national health care card thing they talked about a few years ago. When you buy drugs from the chemist you have to show your card and it gets recorded. If you only buy occasionally then all good. If you are an abuser it is obvious.
My body reacts to pseudoephedrine so never take it. But I occasionally get bad tension headaches and Mersindol night strength works well. Would take maybe 5 to 10 per year. But everytime I ever ask to buy them (non-perscription) I get 20 questions from the chemist and made to feel like a drug abuser!
I went to a pharmacy here in brissy on my girlfriends behalf, she was sick at home nd had asked me to get some night n day cold and flu tablets. I walked in and kindly explained my situation and told of how she had bought a some supermarket cold n flu tablets and they weren't helping.. The first thing the guy asked me was for ID, ok no problems I'm awear people make drugs from the pharmacy strength stuff but he keeped me waiting 10 minutes in an empty store while he stuffed around on a computer punching in my details! very uncomfortable feeling..
At least you got the medicine you needed (or, your gf needed rather)...
I've yet to be successful as per my posts above, I just rode out the cold..
Not even gonna bother taking pe blends, placebo's only work when you think they will...
I've got a mild cold at the moment, walked into the pharmacy in the city and asked for some Sudafed and the pharmacist offered me the SE or the "licence check". No questions when I said I'd like the pseudoephedrine version, just asked what my symptoms were and gave me pack and sent me on my way.
Lol at some people saying to chemists "Any drug with the original ingredients (i.e. pseudo) will work just as well".
As if that doesn't sound dodgy!
Any drug with the original ingredients (i.e. pseudo) will work just as well".
Wait, are they actually saying "i.e. pseudo"??? LOL
I tend to just use Codral as my drug of choice and just ask for 'original formula'. Definitely avoid using the P word.
I don't seem to have any trouble getting it from any of my local pharmacys?
You're lucky then. I've just had to learn through trial & error which ones want to be arseholes about it and which ones are cool with dispensing pseudo.
Wait, are they actually saying "i.e. pseudo"??? LOL
I typed it in brackets but I wasn't trying to convey it being said in the question.
If it is then that's probably worse lol.
i found the chemist warehouse a bit better for getting pseudo containing codral or similar. others are a nightmare, and most just dont stock it (adelaide), or will make you wait 24hrs.
nd most just dont stock it (adelaide), or will make you wait 24hrs.
What's the forced delay about?
In SA do they actually do police checks on people after they take down your drivers licence details?
I would have thought the Operation STOP live database was enough to stop pseudo shoppers.
After over a week of feeling miserable, and ovitrin that helps instantly but fades after a while with the dreaded rebound possibility (so stopped after a couple of days) I found a place in Brisbane (Chemist Warehouse: Rocklea) that was happy – with licence and a few simple questions – to give me Codral Original (day and night).
Just taken first dose and looking forward to feeling better soon...
I used to get hellish trouble while still in the UK with sinusitis and sudafed was the only thing that helped me get through it. Thankfully in the change of climate (I assume) I've not had the same trouble here because until today I've not found a way to get it here.
This cold though has been a nightmare and lead me to do a phone around a heap of chemists to try and find one that would give over the counter (bearing in mind Project STOP)
I'd forgotten what relief from congestion/sinusitis was like... these pills are lifesavers. Within half an hour of taking earlier on I was feeling much much better.
Think I shall sleep better tonight too.
I'm of the opinion that pseudoephedrine should only be available after a consultation with a doctor, and that the amount you get (supply) is better with multiple repeats of it.
but so many don't want to see the meth labs plummet to almost zero being discovered as what happened in a few states of america that did this and new zealand which has only just done this (no results yet however).
Go to doctor, get like 5 repeats, decent little supply youve got there, paracetemol free stuff maybe (i hate paracetemol, its a load of BS and the only coal tar derivative that we still use)
I'm in Ireland and yesterday I could feel a cold coming on. I went to the pharmacy, explained my symptoms (mainly I wanted something stronger than what the supermarkets sell) and was given medicine with pseudoephedrine as it's active ingredient. No license/ID check or anything.
Took some last night and feel better already. I was given a pack of 24 so hopefully I can take the rest home with me :P
ook some last night and feel better already. I was given a pack of 24 so hopefully I can take the rest home with me
That's exactly what I did but in Asia, clarinase 120mg i think or another with 60mg, brought back more then I should and thought customs would seize it all, but they didn't bother to check it.
I'm sick of the crap they sell here even when taking 2x the dosages it doesnt work as good as pseudoephedrine!
I'm of the opinion that pseudoephedrine should only be available after a consultation with a doctor, and that the amount you get (supply) is better with multiple repeats of it.
Are you of that opinion also for all medications or even just codeine containing ones?
but so many don't want to see the meth labs plummet to almost zero
You what...? That's a bit rich.
but so many don't want to see the meth labs plummet to almost zero being discovered as what happened in a few states of america that did this and new zealand which has only just done this (no results yet however).
I'd be interested to see evidence of this claim. As far as I'm aware its never been established that retail pseudo is anything but a minor proportion of precursor for the amphetamine available on the street.
Arguably proper real-time monitoring and regulation of OTC pseudo sales would achieve the same thing – except this wont cost the taxpayer with unnecessary medicare-subsidised doctors visits.
I don't seem to have any trouble getting it from any of my local pharmacys?
The benifits of not looking like a druggie i guess :P I simply ask for pseudoephidrine, if they ask why i just say for my nose and the new stuff is usless.
The benifits of not looking like a druggie i guess :
That's unAustralian!
They're often called cold and flu tablets. I can imagine a lot of people are going to look like drug addicts if they're a few days in to the flu and decide they've got to get something to help out their misery. They'd likely look really unhealthy in the face, maybe messy bed hair and wear a tracksuit.
You shouldn't have to dress up to go to a chemist when you're sick. Pharmacy staff shouldn't be full biggots
you know,i personally couldn't care less if criminals want to buy or abuse psuedoephedrine – @ $14.95 for 12 tablets, you need to be a criminal to afford a regular buy anyway
I've sold about 5 boxes of various medications containing pseudoephedrine in the past week. I've asked all the relevant questions and been given the appropriate answers.
I haven't declined a sale in quite some time, so I don't know why it's so difficult for some people to buy a box. I wouldn't sell any if it were a contraindication (the major reason), didn't work or if they didn't actually need any.
Had one woman come in holding a Demazin tablet and wanting something for her sore throat. I suggested the Difflam C throat gargle, but she didn't want a liquid. So I recommended the Difflam throat lozenges with local anaesthetic – didn't want that either. So I asked if she wanted to try some Panadol and Nurofen together, but as expected she wanted no business with them.
She wanted some Demazin with pseudoephedrine even though she told me they weren't working. The woman left to consult with her husband.
You don't know how frustrating that is...
I've sold about 5 boxes of various medications containing pseudoephedrine in the past week.
So you're a pharmacist or 'special services' guy. Maybe you can tell me this...
Why is it that I can go in and buy 60 nurofen , and nobody gives a damn about contraindications, nobody asks me why I need them, or what medication I"m on, nobody wants to know my name. Just get given them and walk out
BUT when I"ve gone in to buy nurofen+ suddenly people do care what medication i'm on, want to know my symptoms, what illness's i have , pretend to care, and for legislative reason want my name and address. The danger with both of those medications is the ibuprofen, not the codeine, so why do pharmacy staff not give a damn about customers buying ibuprofen products alone?
It strikes me as how uncaring and fake pharmacists/special spervices people are. They don't give a damn about your health unless legislatively they have to give a damn.
I have both high blood pressure and asthma, so I've been declined nurofen+ in the past, so instead I bought nurofen. Ridiculous thing is its the ibuprofen that allegedly can cause problems it's not the codeine. Very uncaring transparent people.
Anyone in Adelaide purchased pseudoephedrine recently? If so where?
Went to two chemist today, one said they didn't have any, I call BS the other said I need a prescription, the GP said I didn't.
Can anyone recommend alternatives that pharmacies will sell that work against cold, flu's, running nose and sore throats?
I have both high blood pressure and asthma, so I've been declined nurofen+ in the past
Why would be you declined Nurofen+ on the basis of hypertension and asthma? Did they explain why?
Can anyone recommend alternatives that pharmacies will sell that work against cold, flu's, running nose and sore throats?
Really there is nothing that works on running noses like pseudoephedrine. Topical decongestants, like oxymetazoline nasal sprays, tend to cause worse rebound congestion in as little as a day in some people.
Though it is unpleasant, sterile nasal lavages can help – so long as they are isotonic (ie dont flush your nose with plain water or overly salty water).
Talk to your pharmacist about ibuprofen for the sore throat – it can help. Medicated lozenges are of limited use in reality, but may provide some temporary relief.
Went to two chemist today, one said they didn't have any, I call BS the other said I need a prescription, the GP said I didn't.
It's their policy that you get a prescription, it's not the law.
Can anyone recommend alternatives that pharmacies will sell that work against cold, flu's, running nose and sore throats?
For sore throats try putting cepacaine or difflam-C in a mini spray bottle, and keep spraying the back of your throat when the pain comes back.
For runny noses I find the nasal pumps work better than anything else to unclog a nose, and they work for 2-3x as long. Problem is you should only use it for 3-5 days and then stop use completely or you will likely become addicted to it. They don't seem to stop your nose from running though.
As far as runny noses. You can try various sedating antihistamines, such as the ones that are in cold and flu products. They work by drying up the sinuses.
Why would be you declined Nurofen+ on the basis of hypertension and asthma? Did they explain why?
supposedly ibuprofen can raise blood pressure, and cause asthma attacks. It's just that pharmacy staff only give a damn if you're buying nurofen+, and not a straight nurofen product. It makes no sense.
supposedly ibuprofen can raise blood pressure, and cause asthma attacks.
Yes, though rarely in patients who have used ibuprofen before and had no reaction.
It's just that pharmacy staff only give a damn if you're buying nurofen+, and not a straight nurofen product. It makes no sense.
Certainly doesn't make sense given they are the same drug with codeine added. How bizarre.
You can try various sedating antihistamines, such as the ones that are in cold and flu products. They work by drying up the sinuses.
Not really unless it is hayfever/allergic reaction that is causing the congestion.
Save thr trouble by just buying the ibuprofen and then a pack of the paracetamol+codeine tablets. I get them whenever i'm at a chemist and there is never any issues.
And when they ask if you have any conditions or taking anything else i didn't think anyone actually answered with anything other than 'no' :P
Not really unless it is hayfever/allergic reaction that is causing the congestion.
Sedating antihistamines will dry up mucous membranes it's just that there is debate as to whether that's a good thing or not. A watery like snot is easy to blow out your nose and of it'self doesn't cause the nasal congestion but a thicker mucous such that may be formed with taking a sedating antihistamine[due to drying action] may possibly clog an already constricted airway in the nose.
Because I won't jump through hoops to get pseudoephedrine the sedating H1 antihistamines are my usual back up to reduce a runny nose. All the sedating antihistamines work, so really the best one is the least sedating which is Polaramine, but avils, benadryl phenergan even restavit and unisom sleep gels will dry up a runny nose. When used in conjunction with a nasal decongestant spray the effects can be beneficial.
I got some phenergan in brisbane a couple years back to help sleep and the chemist interogated me more than when i had bought pseudoephedrine there :P
he danger with both of those medications is the ibuprofen, not the codeine
Codeine is a drug of dependence and can be used as a recreational drug, much like pseudoephedrine can is a component of a recreational drug.
Codeine is a drug of dependence and can be used as a recreational drug, much like pseudoephedrine can is a component of a recreational drug.
You're telling me nurofen+ is not sold to asthmatics because codeine is a drug of dependance, and nurofen+ is not sold to people with high blood pressure because codeine is is a drug of dependence.
Are you saying the deceptive dishonest pharmacist is so scared of codeine being on the street that they will use any excuse possible not to sell it and the fact that codeine has no contraindication for people with asthma and high blood pressure is irrelevant?
But they'll gladly sell nurofen in a 60pack to a hypertensive asthmatic because although it's the ibuprofen that may kill me[worst case scenario], nobody is going to become dependant on nurofen?
I've never thought of it like that, but you could just be right. Pharmacists really are creeps.
Sedating antihistamines will dry up mucous membranes it's just that there is debate as to whether that's a good thing or not. A watery like snot is easy to blow out your nose and of it'self doesn't cause the nasal congestion but a thicker mucous such that may be formed with taking a sedating antihistamine[due to drying action] may possibly clog an already constricted airway in the nose.
Thanks for the info. I'm embarrassed I didn't know this. I had no idea they could do this to a clinically useful degree. Is it all H1? Anticholinergics?
I was aware they can interfere with Eustachian tube physiology, but wasn't familiar with how, and have personally never experience any relief from congestion when taking promethazine.
Looks like someone's got a beef against pharmacists lol.
Why is it that I can go in and buy 60 nurofen , and nobody gives a damn about contraindications, nobody asks me why I need them, or what medication I"m on, nobody wants to know my name.
Regardless of the scheduling of the medication, any good pharmacist and their staff should be asking:
- Who is the patient?
- How long have the symptoms persisted for?
- What are the symptoms?
- Any allergies?
- Any medical conditions?
- Are they pregnant or breastfeeding? (if applicable)
- Are they currently taking any medication
- Previously used remedies, were they effective and how were they being used?
for legislative reason want my name and address
Schedule 3 medication does not require a name and address. Only Schedule 3 Recordable ones, such pseudoephedrine-containing products, require such details.
I have both high blood pressure and asthma, so I've been declined nurofen+ in the past, so instead I bought nurofen. Ridiculous thing is its the ibuprofen that allegedly can cause problems it's not the codeine. Very uncaring transparent people.
You're telling me nurofen+ is not sold to asthmatics because codeine is a drug of dependance, and nurofen+ is not sold to people with high blood pressure because codeine is is a drug of dependence.
I've declined the sale of codeine-containing products, due to abuse and contraindications. There have been reports of people taking over 80 Nurofen Plus tablets in a DAY because they've become dependant to the codeine. But I've also disallowed sales due to contraindicating medical conditions and drug interactions. You'd be surprised by the number of people taking NSAIDs or warfarin toegether with Nurofen. A lot of people don't know you shouldn't be taking more than 4g of paracetamol in a day, yet will happily down Panadeine, Panadol and some cold and flu tablets together.
If a person has no history of aspirin sensitivity I'd be fine giving them Nurofen Plus. Aspirin sensitivity only occurs in about 5-10% of asthmatics anyway. If someone is hypertensive but has it well controlled with no contraindications, I'd cautiously allow them to take an NSAID. The codeine found in them has no bearing on my decision unless they were abusing it.
Like many others in this thread, I too think the new tablets with phenylephrine or similar replacement drugs are rubbish.
I get hayfever/sinus issues probably once a year and used to use Sinutab's with pseudoephedrine. However, I've struggled to find these of late – many pharmacies state they are no longer made.
I also don't appreciate feeling like a criminal when asking for something with pseudoephedrine in it.
Anyway, went to a pharmacy a few months ago and as usual asked for Sinutab's with pseudoephedrine. Again told not made/stocked, however they stated Codral had some tablets which were similar in composition to the old original Sinutabs. Got a box of "Codral Cold & Flu Max" (after handing over licence etc.) and they have worked a treat.
Now I know these exist I will specifically request them each time I need something to clear a blocked head and hopefully end my quest to find suitable replacements for Sinutabs.
I get hayfever/sinus issues probably once a year and used to use Sinutab's with pseudoephedrine. However, I've struggled to find these of late – many pharmacies state they are no longer made.
They're made in Ireland, anyway. I got some when my sinuses were killing me after the onset of a nasty cold. Said what my symptoms where and she gave me Sinutab. They give out psuedoepherdrine around here like it's candy! Got cold/flu medication and Sinutab, both with the stuff that WORKS, without any interrogation, ID check or anything.
My sister is also unwell at the moment and is taking the Codral with the "new formula" from Australia and she doesn't seem to be getting any better at all. Time to drag her ass to an Irish pharmacy!
but so many don't want to see the meth labs plummet to almost zero being discovered as what happened in a few states of america that did this and new zealand which has only just done this (no results yet however).
Bullcrap.
Go to doctor, get like 5 repeats, decent little supply youve got there, paracetemol free stuff maybe (i hate paracetemol, its a load of BS and the only coal tar derivative that we still use)
And what makes you think that the "meth lab" owners wont do the same thing?
This is how most of it gets in http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/
This is how most of it gets in http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/
Exactly. The hard line stance on retail pseudo is just technique to show the public how 'tough on drugs' Govts/police are. You could wipe out ALL retail pseudo and still have a thriving methamphetamine black market.
This kind of rubbish:
but so many don't want to see the meth labs plummet to almost zero
just shows how effective this kind of propaganda is.
Thanks for that pharmacist view point of things Phil.
My sister is also unwell at the moment and is taking the Codral with the "new formula" from Australia and she doesn't seem to be getting any better at all. Time to drag her ass to an Irish pharmacy!
Stories like that really irk me. You should be able to trust and believe Pharmacist advice, but sick people are sold false hope when they are steered towards that PE snake oil.
I got a bottle of PE liquid, I knew it wouldn't work, because I know the liquid just like the PE tabets are never metabolised it's destroyed in the digestive system, however I had read that it can be used topically, that is put in a nasal spray bottle and sprayed into the nose and there should be some relief.
Neither routes worked, and I think [not sure] that nasal PE sprays are physically addicting just like the traditional nasal sprays , so can only be used for a few days, if by chance it worked for you but It really does seem this PE has no medicinal use at all except for use by optometrists for dilating pupils.
If pharmacies were prevented from selling PE products due to there being no clinical evidence that it works then the drug companies would have the finanical motivation to either create a new sudafed that can't be turned into meth or research an entirely new decongestant . But why would they bother now, when the cash keeps rolling in selling bogus cold and flu PE products.
I've had a bad cold for a week and finally dragged myself to the doctor yesterday, sure that I must have been suffering from some kind of exotic & very nasty virus.
But no, everything checked out OK, it's just a cold.
I've been on holidays at my Mum's place the whole week and she has 3 or 4 different off-the-shelf cold & flu tablets in the medicine cupboard and I tried them all, with no noticeable effect.
So after visiting the doctor yesterday morning, I went to the chemist and asked the pharmacist if they have anything that "works".
And after showing them some ID, they sold me some Codral Original Cold & Flu tablets, and I'm pleased to say that they definitely "work". I felt better within ½ an hour of taking the first dose, and last night had the first good night of sleep that I've had for a week.
The annoying thing is that I very nearly bought something from the enormous range of off-the-shelf cold & flu tablets yesterday – which would most probably have been a complete waste of money, and resulted in more days of feeling wretched.
It was only after mentioning that I'd already tried some of them that the pharmacist mentioned the behind-the-counter, pseudoephedrine product. I'm glad she did, but it's cold comfort to learn that the substitute for pseudoephedrine in all the off-the-shelf products – phenylephrine – may be no more effective than a placebo.
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug
make the chemist your regular shopping spot
get known there – for packets of tissues, a doctors script...
do you need a haircut? sounds bad but long hair is drugs
tattoos is drugs
long sleeves on a hot day is drugs
sorry – but thats the way people look at things
make the chemist your regular shopping spot
This has worked for me. I don't even get ID'ed any more because the pharmacist knows me and my health history well.
Shouldn't have to resort to that, but oh well.
I have both high blood pressure and asthma, so I've been declined nurofen+ in the past, so instead I bought nurofen. Ridiculous thing is its the ibuprofen that allegedly can cause problems it's not the codeine. Very uncaring transparent people.
Silly pharmacist, Nurofen is the drug they should be worrying about. did they say anything when you went to get nurofen?
supposedly ibuprofen can raise blood pressure, and cause asthma attacks. It's just that pharmacy staff only give a damn if you're buying nurofen+, and not a straight nurofen product. It makes no sense.
That is true, If the pharmacist doesn't know you're buying the normal nurofen, then they can't really help then, you should go up to them and ask them Why can i have nurofen but not nurofen plus. If you answer all their questions properly then they shouldln't deny you this. Also, they are just losing money on not selling the more expensive product....? bad business model as well.
You're telling me nurofen+ is not sold to asthmatics because codeine is a drug of dependance, and nurofen+ is not sold to people with high blood pressure because codeine is is a drug of dependence.
Are you saying the deceptive dishonest pharmacist is so scared of codeine being on the street that they will use any excuse possible not to sell it and the fact that codeine has no contraindication for people with asthma and high blood pressure is irrelevant?
But they'll gladly sell nurofen in a 60pack to a hypertensive asthmatic because although it's the ibuprofen that may kill me[worst case scenario], nobody is going to become dependant on nurofen?
You must really choose all the uptight pharmacist to talk to when buying your drugs. I give out nurofen plus 99% of the time. Only time i decline it is when you look super dodgy/druggy 'and' you have past history of abusing it. And yes you can abuse it because back in the day, nurofen plus tablet had the codeine on one half of the tablet and nurofen on the other half. so druggos could snap off the codeine and use it for illicit purposes.
As pharmacy employees we've seen pensioners use their licences to buy pseudo-ephedrine products for drug dealers (yes, I've seen pensioners with drug dealers in the same car near Redcliffe).
Other instances where people have supplied multiple driver's licences (probably harder now due to new QLD licences) over a number of different pharmacies.... and many other examples of groups of people (pretending not to know each other) coming in to buy pseudoephedrine over staggered times (for example, 5 minutes apart over 20 minutes).
So it is understandable that many pharmacies are suspicious of purchases of pseudoephedrine.
HOWEVER, if you are having difficulty buying the products, maybe try buying your scripts and front shop items from the same chemist in order to build a relationship with the chemist FIRST, and then ask for pseudoephedrine products later.
Anyway, I agree that phenylephrine (in tablet form is not that effective) but if you have ever had the misfortune of developing anterior uveitis then (phenylephrine+prednisolone eye drops) plus (homatropine eye drops) are your only option and you will not be complaining about these drops (nor the perceived lack of phenylephrine effects plus the other actives) which may save your eyesight.
Pharmacists are being monitored e.g.
Pharmacist charged with trafficking pseudoephedrine
Updated August 21, 2008
A six month police investigation has led to a Melbourne man becoming the first pharmacist in Victoria to be charged with trafficking pseudoephedrine.
28-year old Morimer Kham of Flemington was charged last night with four counts of trafficking pseudoephedrine and one count of possessing the proceeds of crime.
An out-of-sessions court heard Kham worked at his father's Noble Park pharmacy, which was targeted by police after it recorded the second highest sales of Sudafed cold and flu tablets in Victoria, and was the only chemist in the State to significantly increase the purchase of pseudoephedrine-based tablets this year.
Police told the court Kham sold 101 boxes or around 76 grams of pseudoephedrine cold and flu tablets to under cover police officers in four transactions this month, for a total of $1,745.
It is illegal to sell drugs containing more than 10 grams of pseudoephedrine, the precursor chemical used to make the illicit drug Ice.
Kham was bailed to face the Melbourne Magistrates Court next week.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
My partner got Cold and Flu with pseudoephedrine a few days ago, its called Trust Cold and Flu. She reckons it was better then the original Codral, her flu was gone within two days.
I've got very bad Sunburn all over my back and legs and can barely move and wear clothes and feel dehydrated and I took some and within 20minutes I could not even feel the Sunburn at all and could roll on the floor without it hurting.
The pharmacy recommended it but did require an ID check and said they only give it to people who they think really need it, it says its an Australian company and its made in New Zealand. There website doesn't work though.
As pharmacy employees we've seen pensioners use their licences to buy pseudo-ephedrine products for drug dealers (yes, I've seen pensioners with drug dealers in the same car near Redcliffe).
Other instances where people have supplied multiple driver's licences (probably harder now due to new QLD licences) over a number of different pharmacies.... and many other examples of groups of people (pretending not to know each other) coming in to buy pseudoephedrine over staggered times (for example, 5 minutes apart over 20 minutes).
So it is understandable that many pharmacies are suspicious of purchases of pseudoephedrine.
Sure but I don't see why I should be lied to about the product not being sold, not in stock or 'only available on prescription' simply by my appearance. I got knocked back again by Chemist warehouse on Saturday with the exscuse this time of "Oh we don't stock pseudephedrine products, sorry" . She was a terrible liar , looking horrendously uncomfortable and couldn't maintain eye contact.
Because she lied to me before I could even give her my licence she couldn't have known I last bought the stuff in October and she was the airhead that sold me it. BUT now you're saying it's reasonable to lie to customers because it's possible for people to have fake licences??
I could drive to this chemist, and be well dressed, but I always choose to ride there in high vis workers clothing, arriving with helmet head and hot and sweaty, and i'm not about to change that due to bigotry of first and 2nd year pharmacists. I
It does make one wonder, though.. do people who use the drugs that you can make from pseudoephedrine have clear sinuses? Does anyone know?
Might be easier to just find a good drug dealer. Lol
Police told the court Kham sold 101 boxes or around 76 grams of pseudoephedrine cold and flu tablets to under cover police officers in four transactions this month, for a total of $1,745.
Wow a $1700 drug bust. Quite a crime ring.
Wow a $1700 drug bust. Quite a crime ring.
The police are having more success with dodgy pharmacists.
Another pharmacist recently got busted...
11 Feb 2012
A PHARMACIST pleaded guilty to illegally supplying the main drug used in the manufacture of methamphetamines.
John Robert Jelfs walked from Victor Harbor Magistrates Court this week after pleading guilty to six charges of providing illegal quantities of pseudoephedrine to customers at his Normanville pharmacy.
He faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.
A lot of people don't know you shouldn't be taking more than 4g of paracetamol in a day, yet will happily down Panadeine, Panadol and some cold and flu tablets together.
It's not a lot of people; almost nobody knows about the dangers of staggered paracetamol overdose. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne
Instead of buying phenylephrine based flu tablets, you might as well just use straight up paracetamol, it's exactly as effective without raising your blood pressure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
It's not a lot of people; almost nobody knows about the dangers of staggered paracetamol overdose. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne
8 isn't that much really suprised ,they should make panadene fort'e with less paracetemol in it .
8 isn't that much really suprised ,they should make panadene fort'e with less paracetemol in it .
Panadeine Forte is 500mg paracetamol 30mg Codeine, the max dose of codeine a day is 240mg so either way you end up with 8 tabs
Some related discussion here:
The Sudafed Security Trade-Off
http://www.schneie
I get sinusitis and it comes on without warning. Panadol works for 3 hours and then it comes back with a vengeance. All I need in order to get rid of this is half a tablet of demazin or sudafed or sinotab (pseudoephedrine) twice. A packet lasts years. I broke my last tablet in 2 last night.
Just stopped in to get the next packet so it's ready and was refused. I read this thread and I am panicking about the next outbreak.
Can I get a script from the doctor next time I go? Will the chemist supply it if with a prescription?
Can I get a script from the doctor next time I go?
You should be able to.
Will the chemist supply it if with a prescription?
If they stock it. Not all of them do.
Incidentally, I'm starting to come down with a cold and my nose is now all nice and clogged up... I've got some Pseudoephedrine from home but when it runs out, I'm not sure if\when I'll be able to get more... D:
I got it without a hassle at my local pharmacy last week. It might have helped that I a) came straight from the Doc next door with a medical certificate, b) was barely functioning as a human being, and c) am a 40-year-old non-bogan woman who speaks with a posh-ish English accent. I also spoke directly to the pharmacist on duty, and she went back and got them out of a locked cupboard.
Damn head cold is still present so may try my luck again tonight.
The last time I went to my local chemist, who know me, I was unsuccessful getting anything. I was clogged up, and nothing had worked. I borrowed a couple of codral originals off my mum, used the only when I really needed them, and thought no more of it.
I currently have a cold. It has clogged up my sinuses something fierce. I went to the local again, and this time I spoke to a different worker. I told her I wanted Codral original, as they help, and the other crap doesn't. She said we can get it in tomorrow, I said OK.
So I got it...a 24 box...with my drivers license.. for a grand total price of $29.20. I nearly died.
I will be taking this very sparingly if that's how much it costs. Geez, there's probably illegal drugs that are cheaper!
Can anyone tell me what I should have asked for that would have been a lot cheaper? Any generic ones around?
I have come to the conclusion that I will no longer take no for an answer when I need this stuff. I hate feeling blah when I know there is something that will make me feel better, but I better save it for when I have to actually do something important.
I only get this sinus thing happening about twice a year.
Can anyone tell me what I should have asked for that would have been a lot cheaper? Any generic ones around?
The chemist I usually go to get it from gives me generic stuff... it used to be Chemist's Own Cold and Flu but it's now Pharmacy Choice.
Last time I didn't get a Day\Night lot (I had plenty of leftover night tablets from my day\night box), but the one I have in front of me is Pharmacy Choice Sinus Tablets, 24 pack and cost $13.95. I think the day\night ones were $18.95 when I last bought them.
A lot of people don't know you shouldn't be taking more than 4g of paracetamol in a day, yet will happily down Panadeine, Panadol and some cold and flu tablets together.
I usually buy pseudo ephedrine as a generic with no paracetemol or codeine- if the cold is bad enough I can just take them as separate tablets. Much better.
I usually buy pseudo ephedrine as a generic with no paracetemol or codeine-
What brand is that bro?
I thought it was a legal requirment that the tablets have multiple actives, prob to help stop illicit precursor use.
But yeah, I agree. I would prefer pseudo to be by it'self. and you add paracetamol or panadeine if required for temperature or headache/pain, and an antihistamine to help with sinus drip at night, if you got a cough take cough mixture.
Maybe when you're sick or old or otherwise unhealthy it's bad for your organs to absorb all those actives at one time.
I have the flu at the moment, and I am sick of wasting my money on the PE (phenylephrine) crap that has now almost completely replaced the pseudoephedrine varieties.
In the recent past, I have been able to get Codral Original Cold & Flu Max which works really good, but even they are hard to find now.
Maybe I will try some online pharmacies.
I get sinusitis
I do not envy you. I have had it once, I have also broken 3 ribs falling off a cliff on my snowboard.
Would take that over sinusitis anyday.
I have some pseudo from when I caught the flu in the States. Boy is it some potent stuff. Perks you right up, however one tablet is probably a bit much as it sends you into a sweat and speeds your heart rate right up and taking it while being bed ridden is a bad idea.
My wife got sick recently and I went in after work to get her some pills. I of course got sick a few days later and had to get more. For that I got a double dose of questions and dirt looks from the pharmacist, but managed to get the pills anyway.
And of course they only sell the small boxes OTC, impossible to get a large box without a prescription (at this pharmacy anyhow).
I found one pill was enough to get me through my flu so I still have a whole box just sitting there haha
I found one pill was enough to get me through my flu so I still have a whole box just sitting there haha
You could probably make good coin selling them on eBay.
Well, I ordered Codral Original Cold & Flu Max online from Pharmacy Direct, but there are many online pharmacies operating in Australia. But I have used Pharmacy Direct a few times before, and they have a great service.
Just went to purchase some, first in six months, and was told no already bought some today, was told it dosn't show where it was bought. Go to another pharmacy and now have it on record as purchased twice in the original pharmacies suburb... is there anywhare to report fraudulent records?
Sounds like your identity is being used fraudulently. Have you lost/ had stolen your drivers licence at all?
Had it lost but it was returned with everything else in my wallet a number of months ago and it was nowhere near the area i'm in. Could the pharmacist have input the information incorrectly given I was refused with one purchase on record and then it shows up as 2. Maybe they hit sale instead of cancel... Would be nice if there was someway to check when my supposed purchases were made myself.
Edit Additional info: the 2 supposed transactions were in the same suburb as my intended purchase as far as I am aware there is only on pharmacy in that suburb, all seems a little weird.
I get sinusitis and it comes on without warning.
Have you had this further investigated, I had Chronic Sinusitis years ago, so I do know how you feel.
Is your Sinusitis Acute or Chronic?
I have just gotten over a bout of sinus a couple of weeks ago.
I never use tablets to treat don't like the side effects.
I used Drixine nasal spray- a couple of sprays up each nostril can last up to 12 hours.
Have it in the morning and just before bed it's bliss no blocked nose or congestion 10-12hrs.
Just be careful not to use for longer than a week or 2 max.
If its really chronic you can try odourless garlic and horse radish tablets they can work.
Don't right me off as a herb loving hippie I use both to advantage!
Just be careful not to use for longer than a week or 2 max.
Generally, oxymetazoline causes rebound hyperemia and nasal congestion (aka rhinitis medicamentosa) after 3 days usage. It's quite easy to become dependent on it.
If its really chronic you can try odourless garlic
As treatment, unlikely to be effective (ie won't shorten length or severity of symptoms). As a preventative, there is some evidence to support its use. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.co
Generally, oxymetazoline causes rebound hyperemia and nasal congestion (aka rhinitis medicamentosa) after 3 days usage. It's quite easy to become dependent on it.
I used it for just over a week no probs with that.
No good for chronic conditions I suppose.
What about Fess or Nasonex?
I used it for just over a week no probs with that.
Interesting. You're lucky. Did you only use it at night? I recall reading that the rebound symptoms are less severe if used before bed only.
What about Fess or Nasonex?
Nasonex is a steroid – so long term use doesnt cause rebound and for most people ok – but like anything long terms comes with its own issues. Probably more suitable for regular intermittent use or 1-4 week use at a time. Of course depends on what its being used for.
Fess is just buffered saline – so not actually a medication. Helps flush the nasal cavity and keep mucosal surface pH/moisture balanced. Can be useful for some people with mild hayfever or who have fair solid mucous. Won't help with inflammation, which in many people the main factor behind the congestion.
Interesting. You're lucky. Did you only use it at night? I recall reading that the rebound symptoms are less severe if used before bed only.
Both when acute... More than 3 days.
Have used before with no problems but am aware of rebound effect.
Weaned off it to only night as symptoms abated.
Chronic sinus sufferers have my sympathy -very uncomfortable condition.
When you ask for products that contain it, you usually get steered towards the phenylephrine (PE) products instead. I remember getting 500 milligram pseudoephedrine tablets on prescription for my allergies, this was in the Nineties. Actually threw a packet of 50 tablets away at one time thinking that I didn't need them, should have kept them for sure. I also remember the codrals which had the orange tablet in the middle of the carrier(chalk maybe)
I find that the PE products don't really ease the congestion and are inferior to the pseudoephedrine products.
I'd be prepared to show my ID and buy the superior medication, however chemist doesn't seem to want to sell it.
Well, I ordered Codral Original Cold & Flu Max online from Pharmacy Direct, but there are many online pharmacies operating in Australia. But I have used Pharmacy Direct a few times before, and they have a great service.
How long ago did you get these online? Apparently you need a script to buy original Codral & Sudafed online.
I find that the PE products don't really ease the congestion and are inferior to the pseudoephedrine products.
I find the same thing, and it is confirmed by my pharmacist cousin. He said he has found very few people it works for.
I had some serious sinus congestion last month. I wasn't near my cousins pharmacy so I went to the closest to me. They are pseudoephedrine-free, ie. they don't sell anything over-the-counter with it. I got Sudafed PE and took it for a week with no change. I visited my cousin, got some "proper" Sudafed and was right in 3 days!
The whole thing is just a smokescreen for the ineffectiveness of Govt to stop clandestine production of methamphetamine. Being "tough on pseudoephedrine" is not being tough on "meth cooks" – in practice its just decreasing national productivity and decreasing access to an effective decongestant with an excellent safety record.
In the meantime, it's the average folks that suffer, again.
become friends with your local pharmacist/pharmacy. If their not uptight and relaxed, they'll give it to you without id if your a regular.
In the meantime, it's the average folks that suffer, again.
Correct. Remember, Government need to be seen to be doing something.
"Look at us! We're doing THIS! Are we not truly excellent? Don't forget to vote 1 next time around...."
"Look at us! We're doing THIS! Are we not truly excellent? Don't forget to vote 1 next time around...."
Exactly. Health outcomes and evidence-based practice are happily put aside in the process of putting spin on things for superficial political gain.
Exactly. Health outcomes and evidence-based practice are happily put aside in the process of putting spin on things for superficial political gain.
Sinus sufferers unite !!;)
Well this scenario.is seen in almost every aspect of.life.
The minority do something wrong and ruin it for the rest of us.
Well this scenario.is seen in almost every aspect of.life.
The minority do something wrong and ruin it for the rest of us.
I'm not convinced that meth cooks and ice-users are responsible for the governments ignoring research and deliberately misrepresenting the rationale and effectiveness of their pseudoephedrine policies.
I'm not convinced that meth cooks and ice-users are responsible for the governments ignoring research and deliberately misrepresenting the rationale and effectiveness of their pseudoephedrine policies.
Ultimately zealots find it almost impossible to change their position even in the face of fact and reasoned logic.
I thought it was a legal requirment that the tablets have multiple actives, prob to help stop illicit precursor use.
Nope, you can buy it standalone, but most pharmacies will keep it in the back to minimise sale if possible and have the multiple active pseudo in front (for some pharmacies).
you can buy it standalone
What is the OTC product that contains only pseudo? I was under the impression pseudo-only preparations were prescription only.
A friend of mine was refused cold and flu tabs because she had bought a packet within the last week. When they only give you 4 days supply at a time surely the week limit is a bit ridiculous?
What is the OTC product that contains only pseudo? I was under the impression pseudo-only preparations were prescription only.
Sudafed
A friend of mine was refused cold and flu tabs because she had bought a packet within the last week. When they only give you 4 days supply at a time surely the week limit is a bit ridiculous?
She just needs to see a GP and get a script.
Times change, and no point living in the past. I remember Bex used to be freely available too http://www.powerhousemuseum.c
What is the OTC product that contains only pseudo? I was under the impression pseudo-only preparations were prescription only.
Nah, its still OTC (no difference between the states)
Sudafed or generic brands have them stand along as 30 or 60mg ( or maybe its 60mg and 120mg) strengths. forgot which pair. but they are 6hr and 12hr tablets.
Just ask for pseudoephedrine only products, most pharmacist may be reluctant (but will if needed) but just say you've already had panadeine today ;) hope no druggies are on here. Or just say you don't need the pain relievers in the combination products. just straight up pseudoephedrine yo'
Sudafed or generic brands have them stand along as 30 or 60mg ( or maybe its 60mg and 120mg) strengths. forgot which pair. but they are 6hr and 12hr tablets.
Ah, reading that I just had a flashback to lecture last year – so long as there is less than 720mg per pack (or 800mg if it is a liquid preparation) it is S3. Anything above that is S4.
Thanks for the info!
I stuck an athma spry up my nose and I have been doing that once a day for a week.
It seems to work as fast as stopping nasal congestion. I think I have an allergy, but because I can't relate to anything [such as pollen, or dust etc] I don't know when I will get runny nose and congestion so never knew for sure I had an allergy. tried those once a day antihistamines for hayfever and they never did anything.
This asthma puffer contains Beclomethasone 100mg, I shoot it up each nostril once a day. So if you have one of these puffers lying around and you get a lot of 'head colds' you might want to try this. Seems to have worked for me. Won't work if you really do have a cold or sinus infection but I do wonder how many people may have allergies but never knew it.
This asthma puffer contains Beclomethasone 100mg, I shoot it up each nostril once a day. So if you have one of these puffers lying around and you get a lot of 'head colds' you might want to try this.
Its 100 micrograms Beclomethasone
Its just a corticosteroid, I really wouldn't recommend using the asthma puffer you can get it in nasal spray form, you can get it over the counter its just beconase 12 hour nasal spray
Just went to purchase some, first in six months, and was told no already bought some today, was told it dosn't show where it was bought.
This exact same thing happened to my wife a few months ago.
I suspect it was user error.. one pharmacist entered the details puts the license back in the tray with the box. Next pharmacist pick up the tray, goes to data enter.. and sees the entry.
I'd suggest reporting it to police.. at least so there's a record.
Who knows, maybe the pharmacist was dodgy. Log the drugs incorrectly against YOUR name but buy it with their own money. If a box just went missing, the stock levels would be low.
Who knows, maybe the pharmacist was dodgy. Log the drugs incorrectly against YOUR name but buy it with their own money. If a box just went missing, the stock levels would be low.
Sounds plausible.
..
A friend of mine was refused cold and flu tabs because she had bought a packet within the last week. When they only give you 4 days supply at a time surely the week limit is a bit ridiculous?
What would happen if i went in asked for 10pkts lol?.
Thank god i havn't had that prob. 2010-2011 i had the cold for 6 damn months with 2 small breaks in there.. went through a hell of a lot of pseudoephedrine// i just kept taking the packet in and saying i need more of this :P
I've never had any problem buying this. I guess I don't fit the profile of how they think an ice producer should look like (whatever that is!).
Just try a different shop I reckon.
The "new formula" is useless.
The problem, I suppose, is that if you specifically mention you want pseudeoephedrine as an ingredient, they instantly become suspicious of you. If you don't ask, they just palm of the new formula rubbish to you.
I just say I want the old sinutabs, not the new, cos the new ones are useless.
It was on A Current Affair this week about how the PE brands are much weaker.
Why do we pay such a high price for an inferior product?
Thought this link would make a few people laugh, especially those who are into chemistry.
How to extract pseudo from methamphetamine
http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf
To the edit happy mods, this is a piss take. It's making a point about how obtaining the actual meth is easier than obtaining pseudo ;) This isn't teaching people how to make meth, it's quite the opposite and for us chem nerds, was a good laugh.
No problem today after asking for some.. although interestly i assumed they would check my current meds to make sure it's ok to take with pseudoephedrine as i get my other scripts there, but they didn't even ask if i was on anything. Generally Nardil is listed as contraindicated with it but i did ask my doc first.
although interestly i assumed they would check my current meds to make sure it's ok to take with pseudoephedrine
Yes, Ive noticed with few exceptions they never seem to ask about med with pseudoephedrine. Benzylpenicilloyl polylysine, MAOis (like Nardil) and SSRIs are all ones to watch in combo. Iobenguane I 123 also a no no, but not a problem as the radiologists obviously check first.
I've never had any problem buying this. I guess I don't fit the profile of how they think an ice producer should look like (whatever that is!).
Skinny build, huge tatts, daggy clothes, beanie, zombie looking. :)
^ watch breaking bad and you will know
I've been taking some pseudo lately for my cold, some stuff i got from america. works a charm
I've never had an issue but then again any time I have needed it I look like death warmed up and it's pretty damn obvious I need the drugs. In fact when I bough cold and flu tabs this past weekend I didn't even get a drivers license check, and the drugs were sitting on the display cabinet, not hidden away like normal. Wonder if that's usual?
There are millions of different cold and flu tablets. Depends if they were the ones with pseudoephedrine.
I don't know if they have to be hidden or just behind the counter somewhere where you can't pick them up yourself.
There are millions of different cold and flu tablets. Depends if they were the ones with pseudoephedrine.
I don't know if they have to be hidden or just behind the counter somewhere where you can't pick them up yourself.
These had pseudoephedrine and were on display. Is the drivers license check compulsory or just something on a chemist by chemist basis?
Do I have to present my ID if requested?
In Queensland if you request a Pseudoephedrine based product a pharmacist must request Government issued photo identification from you if you are unknown to them.
In States other than Queensland there is no such regulation and whilst you might be asked for photo identification you do not have to provide it.
Yes, Ive noticed with few exceptions they never seem to ask about med with pseudoephedrine
Do you mean they never ask "Are you on any medications" when you buy psedudo products?
I've been asked that, and was stupid enough to tell the 15yo the truth, that i was on blood pressure tablets. So 15yo instantly says 'sorry can't sell them to you, they are contraindicated for people with high blood pressure'.
Pretty stupid I think, as I dont' have high bloood pressure because I take blood pressure medication.
I don't know if they have to be hidden or just behind the counter somewhere where you can't pick them up yourself.
I don't know if they have to be hidden, but because they are just so hard to get, due to the powers that be not wanting them to fall into the evil meth cooks hands, it is very uncommon for a chemist to have them anywhere in public view.
It's the worry of being broken into which causes a lot of chemists to not stock them, and order them in when requested, as mine did.
To have them on public display is asking for trouble, IMO.
All this limiting of pseudoephedrine, and making suffering people who need it jump through hoops, doesn't seem to be doing much to put a dent in the illegal drug problem.
Do you mean they never ask "Are you on any medications" when you buy psedudo products?
Yes, literally never been asked if was on any medications when buying pseudo. Same for my better half, never asked.
It's the worry of being broken into which causes a lot of chemists to not stock them, and order them in when requested
Youd think that would go more so for a lot of other drugs they stock though, strong opoids to stumilants etc which is harder to get than finding someone with a cold to buy some pseudo.
I am just learning all this. Haven't been sick for two years, now needed a decongestant badly. Took one of my partners leftover Sudafed slow release yesterday which worked really well so today when I was desperate again I went to the Chemist and was offered Sudafed PE. I didn't think to ask any more thinking it was simply the quick release version of the other. Now three hours later its done sod all and I have a headache. So I scrabbled round the rubbish bin to retrieve the 10 year old Sudafed (pseudoephedrine not pseudoephrine now I see) and have taken one of them. This is crap! I get so sick of chemist selling stuff on tradenames not actives and normally I would check but being wooly headed I didn't. I honestly feel like going back tomorrow and having a piece of them. Anyway if I"m not better tomorrow I will have to go to the doc for a medical cert anyway. And its not as though I like this med, I hate it but my nose is so raw I don't want to squirt anything more up it. Have been using Fess but its running like a tap and I can't sleep and its starting to bleed.
Stop poisoning yourself with coke, chips, chocolate bars, mc donalds and eat how mother natured intended and you won't need to take any of these "magic pills" which are more dangerous than many street drugs.
Stop poisoning yourself with coke, chips, chocolate bars, mc donalds and eat how mother natured intended and you won't need to take any of these "magic pills" which are more dangerous than many street drugs.
I've taken Pseudoephedrine every time I have had a cold and I am not dead and am reasonably healthy, apart from a sore neck that popped up this afternoon. Going out a limb here, and I could be wrong, I think the sore neck is unrelated to the Pseudoephedrine I took two months ago that, would you believe it, did not kill me or come even close to it. In fact, it made me feel vaguely human again.
So, if you would like to back up your statements with some evidence and prove that we are somehow killing ourselves with a desire to feel vaguely human when we have a cold, be my guest.
I've taken Pseudoephedrine every time I have had a cold and I am not dead and am reasonably healthy,
I know people who have smoked their whole lives and are not dead. Your particular case doesnt prove much.
In fact, it made me feel vaguely human again.
Of course these drugs can work and make you feel good in the short term, but to think there are no long term side effects is being very naive.
Many of the so called vitamins and supplement are in fact synthetic vitamins.
People get sick because they don't eat well. I know your parents just like mine and many others never brought us up to believe that what we eat effects our health (apart from effecting our weight) but it's just common sense.
We grow up being fed coco pops, chips, coke, junk food, processed supermarket food like its no big deal. Well it is! Ever checked the stats from cancer, diabities, autism, depression, breast cancer etc. These things arent just happening by chance. They are a symptomn of poor health in most cases.
Drugs sometimes MAY be the answer but we should look to prevent these health issues in the first place by eating and drinking better and getting mad about bad food as much as we do about smoking and other things.
Nobody has to be perfectg but if you can switch from eating 90% of bad food to eating 90% good food, well you probably won't have any big health issues when you're older.
Stop poisoning yourself with coke, chips, chocolate bars, mc donalds and eat how mother natured intended and you won't need to take any of these "magic pills" which are more dangerous than many street drugs.
Can you be more specific... Which typical OTC medications used in accordance with their directions are more dangerous than which street drugs exactly? And how?
Can you be more specific... Which typical OTC medications used in accordance with their directions are more dangerous than which street drugs exactly? And how?
Well a perfectly simple case is panadol. Take too many and you'll overdose and die. You can't overdose on weed but thats illegal quite strange.
Pandadol is quite the bottom of the barral case of course, many more dangerous drugs out there. Am I saying never to take Pandadol? Of course I'm not. It's more the principle. If you take care of your body you won't get many headaches and other health problems which are not the actual problem just your bodies ways of telling you something is not right.
My comment wasnt even specificaly directed at OTC drugs. Heaps of drugs have warnings and side effects.
All Im saying is we are in a world where we have a problem and are just dircted to pop a pill to fix our problems and its not the right way to do things.
In the US its reported 30% of students are on anti depression or antisicotic medication. Whether thats a true figure or its half of that its still very scary.
I know people who have smoked their whole lives and are not dead. Your particular case doesnt prove much.
One of them, alas, is my father. That said, we are comparing taking a drug for one week per year to something that goes on for years, it is obvious which one has the lower death rate.
Of course these drugs can work and make you feel good in the short term, but to think there are no long term side effects is being very naive.
Most drugs do that. Pseudoephedrine is not a long term drug. It is a short term drug. You take it the one week a year you have a cold so that you can function as something that vaguely resembles a human being instead of a snotty, useless mess.
Many of the so called vitamins and supplement are in fact synthetic vitamins.
Your point? Polyester is also synthetic and I don't see it causing many deaths.
People get sick because they don't eat well.
I know. Most people do. Eat crap for a couple of days straight, you feel like crap. Eat something good for you (like a delicious delicious turkey salad roll) and you'll feel better.
I know your parents just like mine and many others never brought us up to believe that what we eat effects our health (apart from effecting our weight) but it's just common sense.
Erm, no. You don't know my parents at all. The Mother tried to instill healthy eating to an extent into her children, myself included. I try to eat healthy and I imagine many people do.
We grow up being fed coco pops, chips, coke, junk food, processed supermarket food like its no big deal. Well it is! Ever checked the stats from cancer, diabities, autism, depression, breast cancer etc. These things arent just happening by chance. They are a symptomn of poor health in most cases.
Diabetes relates to sugar, so yes, excess sugar consumption does that. Cancer and autism, you will need to prove to me how that works (protip: I don't find other people's evidence). I do, however, definitely call shenanigans on depression.
Drugs sometimes MAY be the answer but we should look to prevent these health issues in the first place by eating and drinking better and getting mad about bad food as much as we do about smoking and other things.
A cold is a communicable disesase. You don't just randomly get it. You generally get it by being around people who have a cold. In my case, it's hard for me to avoid being around people because a) I'm a uni student so attend uni five days out of seven with other people, 2) I catch public transport most days and c) I live in a residential college with 200+ other uni students many of which I see through the course of the day. I imagine that there are people out there who work, and they probably have someone like me who is incredibly stubborn and will only not come into work if they're dead regardless of how ill they are. There are probably other cold carriers out there too who have it but don't know that they have it yet. Therefore, during cold\flu season, short of holing yourself up in an airtight room, you're probably going to come into contact with someone who has the cold and who is likely to give it to you.
Well a perfectly simple case is panadol. Take too many and you'll overdose and die. You can't overdose on weed but thats illegal quite strange.
According to the box of Herron Gold I have here, it says "Take with water every four to six hours if necessary. Keep to the recommended dose. Adults and children over 12 years of age: 1-2 tablets, maximum of 8 over 24 hours. Children (7-12 years of age): ½ to 1 tablet (maximum 4 tablets per 24 hours). Do not take this medicine for longer than 48 hours at a time unless advised to by a doctor. Not reccomended for children under 7 years of age. Please recycle carton. WARNING: Do not take with other products containing paracetamol, unless advised to do so by a doctor or pharmacist. If an overdose is taken or suspected, ring the Poisons Information Centre (131 126) or go to a hospital straight away even if you feel well because of the risk of delayed serious liver damage. Consult your doctor if symptoms persist. Store below 30oC. DO NOT USE IF FOIL SEAL IS BROKEN."
Any smart person could read this and say "I should take two now, wait four or five hours, see if I feel better, and if I do, take no more. If I don't feel better, I should take two more, and wait four or five more hours and see how I feel then. If I don't feel better by this time Friday, I should see a doctor. When the box is empty I should put it in the recycling bin.". It is not unreasonable to expect people to not interpret the instructions as "take eight now and see what happens then eat the box for good measure".
TL;DR, in case you were unaware (it appears that you are), overdosing is not following the packet directions.
TL;DR, in case you were unaware (it appears that you are), overdosing is not following the packet directions.
So something that can kill you and that children should not take, is somehow ok if we don't consume it often? That doesnt make much sense. Am I saying that drugs alone is going to be the magor factor in disease no. But its just one of many bad things humans do that contributes.
Well a perfectly simple case is panadol. Take too many and you'll overdose and die. You can't overdose on weed but thats illegal quite strange.
I did say in accordance with directions.
If we are talking about extremes, you can die by drinking too much water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
If you're saying that if you look after yourself then you will be more healthy then this is a no brainier, but I can't see how this is all that relevant when it comes to the topic here.
All Im saying is we are in a world where we have a problem and are just dircted to pop a pill to fix our problems and its not the right way to do things.
It's called progress... I am quite happy that I can pop a pill to get rid of a headache rather than riding it out. I guarantee you that the headaches I get from eye strain have nothing to do with eating the odd Big Mac
We grow up being fed coco pops, chips, coke, junk food, processed supermarket food like its no big deal. Well it is! Ever checked the stats from cancer, diabities, autism, depression, breast cancer etc.
While I agree with you in principle, Ernster, this is not the thread to espouse your theories. It was OT when you posted, and is now even more OT due to people replying.
It would make a good thread on it's own though, so why don't you go start it? This thread is for moaning about the elusive pseudoephedrine, the dried up supply of it , and how hard it is to get hold of it when it is needed, by otherwise healthy people.
Lets just leave this thread how it should be please.
FWIW, I was in the chemist yesterday and a lady there was asking for something to dry up her nose, which was better than the PE she had previously brought. The assistant wasn't saying anything, but I told her to ask for the stuff with pseudoephedrine, that they tell you they don't sell anymore. Assistant shot me daggers, but the lady asked, and got, albeit coming in the next day, and I was thanked for telling her, as she thought it was all outlawed.
Sometimes i think a politician gets a letter, a bad experience, then its omg we need to ban this!, so 1% speaks for the rest. Ive never used these products though anyhow, normally i ride the runny nose out, havn't had a cold for 5years or so lucky.
God bless Las Vegas. Caught a cold on the flight over and found a very sympathetic pharmacist. 2 packs of 48 pseudoephedrine and $16 later – I'm happy!
Just ignore Ernster, Almost every one of his posts on this forum are about crackpot theories with no evidence to back up his claims.
Just noticed this on wiki
Oral phenylephrine is extensively metabolised by monoamine oxidase,[an enzyme that is present in the gastrointestinal tract and in the liver
Since i take nardil i wonder if that means the PE stuff may actually have a chance of working..
Since i take nardil i wonder if that means the PE stuff may actually have a chance of working..
That combination is high risk for hypertensive crisis. There's already issues with hypertension at therapeutic doses – MAOI's exacerbate this and for this reason the combination is avoided.
I just got a 20 Min grilling on this and why I was buying at this time of night WTF. Aparantly there is a problem is shepparton with people using the pseudo to make drugs.
Aparantly there is a problem is shepparton with people using the pseudo to make drugs
I've been given the same line in every chemist I go to! Night time is often the worst when your sick, it's should be no wonder people end up at chemists searching for these drugs in the middle of the night!
Now that I'm in the UK it is sooo easy to get it! I just got a pack of 12 pseudo's online, no checks, nothing! I'm not actually sick but I wanted to know if it was that easy and it was! Now I'm set for when I actually do get a cold.
yes I got a 24 pack headache is gone thank god panadol did crap all looking forward to getting a good nights sleep.
I am not game to ask for restavit, panadine and mersyndol at the same time
This online petition (I know, but..) might be interesting to readers of this thread:
http://www.gopetition.com/pe
phenylephrine is junk. One major study found it had no benefits over a placebo.
Its si annoying that you have to get treated like a criminal and a junkie to get one pack of pseudo
I don't muck around with the Chemists. I just tell them, "I want the stuff the bikies buy !"
They try and point you to the on the shelf stuff.
"Nooooo..... the stuff behind the counter please !"
chemist hands me a box and I check the contents
"Noooo..... you know which one I want !"
hands me the correct box.
"Very good !"
Then we have to play 20 question with one of the gods of Olympus.
He descends from his higher platform to come and speak with a mere mortal.
I try and be creative with my answers.
I get this with codeine products too.
It's easy to shock a chemist, the real trick is to make them laugh.
I've only managed to do it once.
I asked the chemist if he stocked acetic acid.
"I know you're not going to do that with them !"
I asked another chemist if he stocked a common household chemical when buying sudafed. He said, "I fell like I should call the cops !"
He was serious. I implied he had been spending too much time on the internet !
While some of the questions can be a bit dull or obvious, they don't bother me.
I've been through Heathrow airport where they ask questions that make you question which direction humanity is moving in evolution.
This happened to me. I was reading the packets the rep gave me and saying 'no' until I got the sudo. One place turned me away, then the second one did the same, the third place, I walked in, and went "Right. listen up. I've got a cold. I've got a flapping cold, I want the sudo, give me the sudo. Kapish?" threw my ID on the table, and that was that. Jesus christ!!! Let people kill themselves and abuse the drugs, they're going to do it anyway. I don't know why they have to treat everyone like a criminal
See, if you'd just gone to the bikies, they could have sold you something for your cold without question :)
In the future you'll be able to buy medicinal marijuana from your chemist without a prescription, but if you have a cold you'll have to go to the car park behind St Marys centerlink to get effective and safe treatment.
Well that is until they start cutting sudafed with baking soda or something.
The only dangerous thing about it will be getting past the kids freebasing vitamin C in the lane way next door.
"Methylated Spirits" no longer contains "metho" (Methanol or "Wood Alcohol") because people WERE abusing it.
Rubbish....this extract from Wickipedia explains it correctly.
Denatured alcohol or methylated spirits is ethanol that has additives to make it inedible (poisonous), to prevent human consumption. In some cases it is also dyed.
Denatured alcohol is used as a solvent and as fuel for spirit burners and camping stoves. Because of the diversity of industrial uses for denatured alcohol, hundreds of additives and denaturing methods have been used. The main additive has traditionally been 10% methanol, giving rise to the term "methylated spirit." Other typical additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium.[1]
Denaturing alcohol does not chemically alter the ethanol molecule. Rather, the ethanol is mixed with other chemicals to form an undrinkable
Never had any problem buying pseudoephredine based decongestants (even when buying duromine AND stilnox at the same time)
if you have an obvious cold/bunged up nose just ask to speak to the pharmacist and explain that the new stuff doesnt work. Often they take your name down for a register just in case you are buying shed loads to make meth. The pharmacy sales assitants are just getting off on their little power trips.
Often they take your name down for a register just in case you are buying shed loads to make meth.
True, but unfortunately not always. I've had pharmacists lie to my face and say 1) that PE works just as well and 2) they dont stock any pseudoephedrine.
I had a great experience today, went into the pharmacy and asked for Sudafed, girl at the counter says "well we have the PE in a few different varieties, but that doesn't work as well, you'd be better off with the psuedoephedrine one". Took my licence no hassles, and away I went.
Often they take your name down for a register just in case you are buying shed loads to make meth.
I always have my ID already waiting at the counter, they still refuse 80% of the time, even ones I've been to before where they've given it to me..
True, but unfortunately not always. I've had pharmacists lie to my face and say 1) that PE works just as well and 2) they dont stock any pseudoephedrine.
That's what I get most of the time. I should have just printed out the studies and given it to them each time I wanted some pseudo where they claim phenylephrine works just as well..
I always have my ID already waiting at the counter, they still refuse 80% of the time, even ones I've been to before where they've given it to me..
Yep. How can there not be (I thought there was???) an australia wide database that keeps a real time track on who is buying pseudo.
I'm sure showing say a licence and Medicare card would be enough proof of who you are.
I can't believe that I feel like I'm doing something wrong just for trying to get some frigging medicine. I even felt like a criminal trying to get some cough medicine a few weeks back purely because it was 'oooooooh behind the counter'.
Seriously I see they have like athletes foot cream behind there. What, do people smoke it or something?
Oh the good old days (before I became a drug lab chemist just for wanting some cold medication).
When I had a cold I would take 2 sudafed and 2 codral cold tablets for a good nights sleep – Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
(edit – getting married in 16 weeks, what I would give for some tenuate/duromine)
when we lived in New Zealand my partner would get really bad colds, couldnt get pseudo for love nor money, I am a nurse so would put my uniform on and go to the pharmacist looking healthy and ask for it and 9 times out of 10 would get it no questions asked. My uniform was a branded one for the local hospital. bit random that it worked, who's to say I am not supplementing my crappy income by cooking meth in the garage??
I am not supplementing my crappy income by cooking meth in the garage??
Just curious – how much marketable 'meth' can you get from 8 Suafeds and how complicated is it?
I get the impression from the descriptions of quantities confiscated at ports that you need more than the odd tablet – and a fair bit of other chemical apparatus as well.
My view is it's all a "spin" to make the population think that something is being done "about drugs" and we are all suffering, just like we do over the bloody child proof lids on things and the foil packs for other 'dangerous' tablets!
Just curious – how much marketable 'meth' can you get from 8 Suafeds and how complicated is it?
The yield is very low in common clandestine labs, even when they are well appointed and have a 'cook' who knows some chemistry. There are around 7 steps in that sort of synthesis and there is loss at each stage.
The amount of pseudoephedrine that can be extracted from pharmacy tablets is about 60-70% for most clandestine labs. In excellent conditions a skilled chemist could get about 85-89% of the pseudo from the tablets.
The amount of amphetamine that can be gained from retail pseudo tablets is between 27-64% depending on the equipment and chemist skill. 64% yields would not be common. So for a packet of tablets with 720mg, the highest yield you're likely to see is ~460mg of methamphetamine. With 100 boxes, they'd be lucky to get 26 grams out of it in the best case scenario.
The point? It's hard to imagine retail pseudo is anything close to a significant contributor to street methamphetamine supply. We are looking at large scale production using large quantities of pure pseduoephedrine at the pre-retail level.
It's hard to imagine retail pseudo is anything close to a significant contributor to street methamphetamine supply.
Thanks for the informed reply – you confirm my non informed suspicions – the current situation over retail sales is just an unecessary inconvienience that impacts the illegal production of meth by the square root of naff all.
the current situation over retail sales is just an unecessary inconvienience that impacts the illegal production of meth by the square root of naff all.
Yep. Especially when they can get the real thing in much larger quantities elsewhere
Oh well... hopefully this madness comes to an end once they realise it's not doing anything but hinder people from feeling better.
The point? It's hard to imagine retail pseudo is anything close to a significant contributor to street methamphetamine supply. We are looking at large scale production using large quantities of pure pseduoephedrine at the pre-retail level.
I"ve done some investigating into OTC pseduo tablets and meth addicts. It is apparently a very common situation for a box of tablets to be traded with the drug dealer for $100 worth of meth.
So drug dealer has his precursor , junkie has his meth at a significant discount. I can see now why pharmacists are paranoid about stocking this stuff. Just 10boxes = $1000 worth of meth to a junkie. Would a junkie break into a chemist for that? He just might.
HOWEVER, I still don't see why people who dont' buy the stuff regularly and have a drivers licence should be inconvenienced. by either the pharmacy pretending to not stock it or in reaility really not stocking it. They have an obligation to the public to maintain stocks of important pharmasuticals. There is nothing that decongests the nose the way pseudo does.
The point? It's hard to imagine retail pseudo is anything close to a significant contributor to street methamphetamine supply. We are looking at large scale production using large quantities of pure pseduoephedrine at the pre-retail level.
Especially (imo) when things like duromine are on the market.
I"ve done some investigating into OTC pseduo tablets and meth addicts. It is apparently a very common situation for a box of tablets to be traded with the drug dealer for $100 worth of meth.
Curious that a dealer would pay a junkie $100 worth of meth for a box of cold n flu medication, when the maximum amount of meth that could be derived from that box is less than ~0.45g. I wonder how "common" that really is, because the economics are a bit iffy.
I would concede that the dealers likely provide the junkies with very diluted meth that is in reality about $30 worth. And yes it could provide a good incentive to rob/burgle a pharmacy – but little more than oxycontin and other opiates, which are easier to move on the streets.
Nevertheless, the idea that this type of activity is a major source of street methamphetamines is unfounded.
I"ve done some investigating into OTC pseduo tablets and meth addicts. It is apparently a very common situation for a box of tablets to be traded with the drug dealer for $100 worth of meth.
You are a great investigator.
True, but unfortunately not always. I've had pharmacists lie to my face and say 1) that PE works just as well and 2) they dont stock any pseudoephedrine.
It makes me furious beyond anything else to have a flapping pharmacist (or worse a counter monkey) stand between me and my drugs.
Being a young man I cop this shit all the time. Being a registered nurse I make a huge song and dance but the more drama you make about it, the more it looks like your a junkie wanting a fix. It makes my blood boil!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhenylephrineQuestions about effectiveness
Pharmacists Leslie Hendeles and Randy Hatton of the University of Florida suggested in 2006 that oral phenylephrine is ineffective as a decongestant at the 10-mg dose used, arguing that the studies used for the regulatory approval of the drug in the United States in 1976 were inadequate to prove effectiveness at the 10-mg dose and safety at higher doses.[11] Other pharmacists have expressed concerns over phenylephrine's effectiveness as a nasal decongestant,[1] and other clinicians have indicated concern for regulatory actions that reduced the availability of pseudoephedrine.[12][13] A subsequent meta-analysis by the same researchers concluded that there is insufficient evidence for its effectiveness,[14] though another meta-analysis published shortly thereafter by researchers from GlaxoSmithKline found the standard 10 mg dose to be significantly more effective than a placebo.[15] Additionally, two studies published in 2009 examined the effects of phenylephrine on symptoms of allergic rhinitis by exposing sufferers to pollen in a controlled, indoor environment. Neither study was able to distinguish between the effects of phenylephrine or a placebo.[16][17] Pseudoephedrine[16] and loratadine-montelukast therapy[17] were found to be significantly more effective than both phenylephrine and placebo.
The Food and Drug Administration has stood by its 1976 approval of phenylephrine for nasal congestion as the debate continues.[10
Curious that a dealer would pay a junkie $100 worth of meth for a box of cold n flu medication, when the maximum amount of meth that could be derived from that box is less than ~0.45g
My investigation concluded the junkie pays $100 per 0.1g of meth. I haven't investigated drug dealers or manufacturers so I can not ratify and confirm your alleged yield of 0.45g of meth per box of otc cold and flu tablets. But if we plug in your value then the small time meth dealer/producer gives away $100 worth of meth for the precursor that allows him to make $450 worth of meth. The business model stands up.
I'm not going to send hours reading 2 years of posts. But yes it is ridiculous because of the abuse by some the Sudafed original is hard to come by.
If you have a bad cold and need to get the original Sudafed see your GP and get him/her to give you a script with a few repeats for it. Sure even though it isn't on the PBS your GP is essentially certifying that you have a a legitimate need for it – find a chemist that has the Sudefed Original and they will be quite happy to give it to you.
This is what my GP did for me – I've had to get 3 packs – one every 4 days or so to clear the infection.
I joke with the girls behind the counter at the local chemist and tell them each time that my meth lab is running low and they have a laugh about it
My investigation concluded the junkie pays $100 per 0.1g of meth.
$1000 a gram for street meth huh... Yeah, nah. The highest purity (and scarcest) methamphetamine ice goes for $1000/g.
I haven't investigated drug dealers or manufacturers so I can not ratify and confirm your alleged yield of 0.45g of meth per box of otc cold and flu tablets.
Often it's lower than 0.45g in small-scale clan labs actually. Fortunately the information needn't be confirmed by your investigations – it's not only common sense to anyone with chemistry training, it's readily available in the literature. Here's a couple that don't need passwords:
http://txn.fd.org/Bremer%20M
h
But if we plug in your value then the small time meth dealer/producer gives away $100 worth of meth for the precursor that allows him to make $450 worth of meth. The business model stands up.
I understand it is difficult for you to appreciate that there are a few more variables than [street value of illicit product] – [cost of acquiring pseudo] = profit. But think about the other costs, risks and logistics. There are over 7 steps in the chemical reaction, each requiring unique chemicals, many of which are on the watch list. The equipment involved is considerable if you want to get a yield over 30%. The exposure involved with pseudo runners. etc etc. The cost-risk-benefit ratio is not attractive.
That is why these small scale labs that are stocked by street level pseudo runners are uncommon, and contribute little overall. The cost-risk-profit ratio is favourable and sustainable only in cases where pure pseudo is obtained in large amounts and can be processed in a lab with pharmaceutical level reaction vessels & equipment.
I wrote to the phamacists guild of Australia and complained about their retard project stop and challenged them to reply to criticsms raised on this forum.
Lwonder if I will get the brush off, I will push this though, nothing makes me more angry than being stereotyped and lorded over by some glorified been counter
It makes me furious beyond anything else to have a flapping pharmacist (or worse a counter monkey) stand between me and my drugs.
Being a young man I cop this shit all the time. Being a registered nurse I make a huge song and dance but the more drama you make about it, the more it looks like your a junkie wanting a fix. It makes my blood boil!
Lol nothing beats a young arrogant nurse
It makes me furious beyond anything else to have a flapping pharmacist (or worse a counter monkey) stand between me and my drugs.
I don't really get angry at them. I've only had two pharamicsts refuse to sell me original formula in the past 5 years, and I just told them I would just take my business elsewhere.
These days when I get tried to be downsold to PE, I just say that it doesn't work for me and refer them to the 2009 University of Vienna study -http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19230461
What concerns me is these are supposed to be qualified pharmacists dispensing this medication, and most of them are completely unaware this study even exists.
Hell yeah, I am used to having the power of who gets and doesn't get drugs.
If they are going to arbitrarily say no to me based, I suspect, and my age and sex then they are going to get a drama about it.
I imagine you could have grounds for legal action, not just against the phamacists involved but against the pharmacists guild of australlia too?...
If they are going to arbitrarily say no to me based, I suspect, and my age and sex then they are going to get a drama about it.
They probably say no to becuase rather than describing your symptoms to them and discussing treatment plans with them, you simply want "your" drugs, then get narky and have thoughts of legal action if they don't give a drug that has well document abuse
Actually it is misappropriated not abused in itself...if you had been paying attention you would know that.
If you went in with a headache would you buy some panadol or would you go
"Ugh, I have got a headache" To which they say – "Here have some panadol"
Now try going "Ugh, I have got a headache" and they say " Here, have a expensive placebo"
What are you going to say?
Yeah – so stop being snide
What concerns me is these are supposed to be qualified pharmacists dispensing this medication, and most of them are completely unaware this study even exists
You won't find a single person in the world that knows every study ever printed in every country.
Plus even if they have read it i'd bet they could find a dozen other studies finding the exact opposite... starting with the ones that got PE approved for sale in the first place, regardless of how flawed or biased you may think they are pharmisists have to go by what the governing bodies have ruled, rather than following studies from vienna.
Plus even if they have read it i'd bet they could find a dozen other studies finding the exact opposite... starting with the ones that got PE approved for sale in the first place
Nah, the evidence is fairly clear that PE is not a suitable substitute for PSE even when you ignore the lengthy saftey record and dataset of PSE. This is not a murky area of evidence based pharmacy, unlike say the debate over paracetamol availability and dosage.
The cost-risk-benefit scenario of PE substitution doesn't stack up and any pharmacist should know this, given that they are supposed to be experts in the rational and evidence-based use of OTC drugs.
If you went in with a headache would you buy some panadol or would you go
"Ugh, I have got a headache" To which they say – "Here have some panadol"
But you're not doing that, you're going in and demanding drug, not asking for medication for symptoms
I've never had a problem by simply going I'm and describing my symptoms, then telling them I don't find PE effective and I prefer PSE. Not going in, herp Derp I have xyz degree and I've read the abstract to xyz journal article, therefore I can side step the prescribing checklist and give me some PSE
Nah, the evidence is fairly clear that PE is not a suitable substitute for PSE even when you ignore the lengthy saftey record and dataset of PSE. This is not a murky area of evidence based pharmacy, unlike say the debate over paracetamol availability and dosage.
My father is involved in the courts, and he's be involved in cases where bikies have gotten a car load of people and driving to small towns and each got a box or two of cold and flu tablets, one bloke actually had a blister on his thumb from popping all the pills out of the packets. So pharmacist based sourcing of PSE does/did happen. And this is not the first tone political and social pressure has dictated drug selection, eg diamorphine or clenbuterol
When I was a pharmacist working for a huge chain pharmacy, we were taught in our monthly meetings to always recommend pseudo if a patient has symptoms appropriate for it rather than the PE equivalent. Tbh if a pharmacist recommmnded PE its more of a cbf than genuine belief that pe works. We were even taught in pharmacy school to not recommend pe. The ones who genuinely recommend it are idiots or are brainwashed by big-pharma advertisements in pharmacy journals (every journal has pe advertising).
It is apparently a very common situation for a box of tablets to be traded with the drug dealer for $100 worth of meth.
OK, I have my box of Codral, now where can I trade it for some blue meth?
I never had trouble getting pseudo (mixed with paracetemol etc), except the stupid license check takes so long, I have to put up with them trying to sell me some useless herbal/vitamin/homeopathic crap.
So pharmacist based sourcing of PSE does/did happen.
Never said it didn't.
And this is not the first tone political and social pressure has dictated drug selection
Never said it was.
Apologies, I dont quite understand what your point was in regards to my statement about PE not being a viable or appropriate alternative to PSE?
Never said it didn't.
Never said it was.
Apologies, I dont quite understand what your point was in regards to my statement about PE not being a viable or appropriate alternative to PSE?
Ahh but you see there is no point.
What DKW4 is (clumsily) doing (yet again) is putting up a straw man.
"A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.
To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
See, like this
NG TO
entropy1...
But you're not doing that, you're going in and demanding drug, not asking for medication for symptoms
Not going in, herp Derp I have xyz degree and I've read the abstract to xyz journal article, therefore I can side step the prescribing checklist and give me some PSE
So you see, he isn't actually saying anything at all, just playing little semantic games.
These people are called "Trolls" and they feed from your attention... best just to ignore them and soon enough they will shrivel up and die....unloved unmissed and unremembered
Showing ID is a joke, hubby buys Codral when he gets a flu and can't breath etc. They always ask for ID and then print out the label and stick on the box. One day he went in the chemist in his work uniform ( lets just law enforcement ) was not asked for ID and was happily handed his drugs over the counter no questions. mmmmmmm!
Well well
Project stop is an initiative by the good people at Innovation RX.
http://www.innovationrx.com.
"Innovation RX is trusted by in excess of 4000 pharmacies across Australia to help them with their professional and legal obligations. Delivering efficient and secure pharmacy solutions that have revolutionised the way in which Over The Counter medicines in Australia are sold."
At around the same time, the Queensland Branch of the Australian Pharmacy Guild (a large, well-organised, voluntary trade organisation to which many community pharmacists belong), together with the Chemical Diversion Desk of the Queensland Police Service, built on the success of the Guild’s existing Pseudo Watch program, to develop a real-time online database (known as Project STOP) to assist pharmacists to determine a customer’s legitimate therapeutic need for a pseudoephedrine product. Project STOP also has a preventive focus, aimed principally at preventing diversion from occurring in the first place by improving pharmacists’ knowledge and ability to refuse suspect sales.http://www.ndlerf.gov.a
Whether Pharmacists are in breach of their duty of care would be an interesting test case to bring to the courts.
Of course the pharmacists guild (which are just an extension of the pharmaceutical companies) would just bury you under a big pile of fat Barristers but it is an interesting thought all the same.
This is all just an extension on the failed war on drugs, that doesn't seem to be brought up much in this thread.
The day drugs are decriminalised and regulated and taxed is the day this problem goes away
What DKW4 is (clumsily) doing (yet again) is putting up a straw man.
I think you have misread who wrote what. On what basis are you accusing me of repeatedly putting up straw man arguments? Where exactly did I throw up a straw man there or elsewhere?
So you see, he isn't actually saying anything at all, just playing little semantic games.
I'm not trolling, nor playing semantics, I'm pointing out how your attitude would cause a pharmacist to become uncooperative
Apologies, I dont quite understand what your point was in regards to my statement about PE not being a viable or appropriate alternative to PSE?
It wasn't, it was more to do with how a few pages ago everyone was discussing the economics of getting boxes of PSE for a pharmacy and cooking it into speed/ice
Going back to jamo96 – the original poster, it's clear that PSE is abused, however it is not abused by mouth.
It's restricted because meth is one of the most damaging recreational drugs in Australian (and indeed western) society. Highly addictive and with side effects including stuff like necrosis of the flesh if you're not one of the lucky ones, I feel like I'm one of the few people who actually think it's a good idea that PSE is mildly regulated. If you're a frequent user of PSE, shouldn't you be seeking to establish the cause of chronic or repeated inflammatory issues?
The best suggestion I can give is, like doctors, get to know one you like and trust, and with a history there, you'll have trust there. Whether you're buying 192 Panadol Osteo, 60 Naproxen or a box of Sudafed, it's worth knowing that your pharmacist won't stuff you around because they feel they know you.
Also helps if, like me, you hit the safety net quickly, to have all your scripts go through the same pharmacist.
Necrosis of flesh is absolutely not a side effect of methamphetamine.
It is however highly neurotoxic, especially when taken IV.
Necrotising fasciitis is a bacterial infection caused by poor hygiene..also from memory there is an obscure veterinary drug used to cut coke and meth that causes a similar condition to Steven Jacobs disease.
Again, war on drugs making a bad situation 100 times worse
Ah yeah, here it is. Nasty stuff http://www.nowpublic.com/heal
At least you will be worm free haha
I am sick of the restrictions place on this particular decongestive drug. It is penalising us all for the bad things a very small number people do with it. What is wrong with resticting the amount sold rather than a total ban!!
It is the Australian way OP. It's the same has when some idiot gets high on ice, does 160KM/hr on a suburban 60Km/hr road, hits a poll and kills themself and a car full of people, so the State Govts counteract that by reducing the speed limit on the road from 60kms to 50kms/hr.
Australian policy makers (politicians), always look at what the minority are doing and change the laws around them.
I was reading (may have been a doco I saw on SBS) how qualudes ceased to be a problem almost overnight when the pharmaceutical (Chemical?) companies agreed to stop making the raw ingredient, it was too difficult for illegal manufacturers to make.
IIRC there is only a handful of factories that make the pseudo. If they stop selling it to criminals, and when it is only available on prescription from pharmacies it would cease to be a problem, wouldn't it?
It is one of those drugs that can only be made by a chemical factory, it could be easily regulated if they wanted unlike other drugs that come from plants anyone can grow.
Probably been discussed before.
To solve your issues or make it simpler. As a Pharmacist, you can do these things to make your and our job easier.
1)Get out your ID right away before you even ask for it.
2) Shop locally
3) Smile
4) Tell us you've had it before, tell us if you are on any meds or any medical conditions.
I cant imagine any pharmacist wouldnt like it if you did all those. We wont bother you that much. We are doing our job.
So if you get your ID out, it shows me you arent afraid to be recorded, if you are from around my area, I know you arent a pseudo-shopper, smiling always helps. Telling me that your medical history will bypass my obligations and move you out of my way.
Look, I HATE giving these out, if I could give it out without recording it or asking questions. I would. You think it annoys you that we are diffricult. Trust me, we find you more annoying.
I personally dont care if you are a pseudo-shopper. I record on Project Stop, Ive done my part, its up to the Cops whether they want to knock on your door.
I have walked up and the first thing I did was put my nurses registration, my licence and my Medicare card down and they still refused me. It was probably because of the smoke coming out of my ears from the previous pharmacy I went to.
If your a pharmacist, tell me. How is project stop administered. How is it reviewed, can you make submissions, complaints about the program itself as opposed to pharmacists ?
I personally dont care if you are a pseudo-shopper. I record on Project Stop, Ive done my part, its up to the Cops whether they want to knock on your door.
Unfortunately not all pharmacists are so rational minded and pragmatic about the issue.
I would say that it's worth remembering that medical professionals (including nurses) are more likely to abuse (prescription) pharmaceuticals than the general population, so this probably applies to OTC pharmaceuticals too. Expecting the pharmacist to be nice is probably a good idea, too. The ones I see are great.
(if in Sydney feel free to PM me for a good recommendation).
My pharmacist keeps the drugs I might need (breakthrough medications, regular painkillers & interventional drugs, asks me for feedback on stuff that only a few people are taking, and checks I'm aware of any drug interactions. He/she knows which drugs are missing info leaflets from their packs and prints them off, lets me know when I'm near to the medicare/pbs ceiling thingy, and prints end of year invoice list for tax offset purposes.
Just bite the bullet. Also, ask your sickest family member or friend for a recommendation and then go see the pharmacist and say "hey, I was recommended to talk to [pharmacist] by X". That way the pharmacist has a chance to evaluate you in context of existing knowledge, not as an unknown.
o/
My girlfriend has been hit by the flu pretty bad (caught it off me). She went up to the pharmacy and asked directly "Can I get some codral with pseudoephedrine". First pharmacist didn't bat an eye but went back to check and apologised when she had run out of stock. She then told us to try the pharmacy around the corner.
Girlfriend did the same thing at the next pharmacy and got hammered with questions-
Why do you need that one?
What are you symptoms? etc
But I don't believe they asked for ID.
Why do you need that one?
What are you symptoms? etc
Pharmisists are meant to be asking questions like that for any pharmisist only medicine we buy.
Meds that don't need questions by a pharmasist are sold at woolies and coles.
Lol at the comment that health professionals abuse drugs. Hey you migt be right but i dont. Never taken pseudo in my life.
I like my sambucol, vitc, zinc and echincea better. And of course panadol and difflam lozenges. And lots of sleep and water.
I personally believe that ppl like pseudo cus its a stimulant and it gives off a boost in energy because of it. So you think u are better but your not. You should conserve energy for immune system to fight off te virus/bacterial infection.
I personally ask ppl all the counselling questions because i dont want you to sue me. Not cus i really cared.
I you dont wanna be bothered as i said before, tell the pcist that youve had them before.
I personally believe that ppl like pseudo cus its a stimulant and it gives off a boost in energy because of it.
You really have not been paying attention here. The issue is not one of people abusing pseudo directly. It is no more a drug of abuse than coffee is. Go watch Breaking Bad to see what happens to the pseudo :-)
I hate the stimulant feeling. But it's the only thing i've found that seems to dry my nose out or something, when i have a cold i can't sleep because i wake up every 5 minutes gagging and coughing from mucus running down the back of my nose into my throat/air passage. I irrigate my nose with the salt water spray too but it only lasts a few minutes and then it's running again.
I only read to page 26 but wow!
all I can say is what a load of crock it is getting some.
I just went to my local around where I live, where I have been going for the last 5 years and they still wanted to see a licence.
The once a year (if that) I get this stuff is usually from another regular pharmacy near work in the city. I have been going there for 10 years and have no problems at all.
But my local where they know me as well surprised me by asking for id.
I told him I would be back for the other 24 packets tomorrow and the assistant that works behind the counter with them bellowed out in laughter.
And they still gave me the wrong stuff. I wanted day and night and only got night.
For crying out loud.
Now I'll have to buy another pack tomorrow. If I make it to work.
I've copped a beauty of a cold/flu/virus/whatever this year.
I haven't bought pseudoephedrine since last year, but I wasn't asked for any sort of ID at the time. having a coughing fit that lasted for 20 seconds before I could talk in the middle of the chemist probably helped.
good stuff though, marvellous sinus decongestant.
Law states we have to record your details.
Can you help by posting a reference to the sepcific Law please. I searched Law Link http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/ and could not find a Law which seemed to apply.
I know that finding ones way around Statues is difficult without the help of someone who is able to point you in the right direction so your help would be appreciated.
Can you help by posting a reference to the sepcific Law please. I searched Law Link http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/ and could not find a Law which seemed to apply.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au
cheers
It says record details of the supply, does that also mean your details though ?
Hi,
did you read the clause?
"A pharmacist who supplies pseudoephedrine, whether on prescription or otherwise, must record details of the supply in accordance with clause 55 as if pseudoephedrine were a restricted substance."
In accordance with clause 55. That means.. check out clause 55.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au
It states that you must include those details + clause 35.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au
Hope this clears it up for you.
Hope this clears it up for you.
It does for me – but it does not say that the customer has to be put through the third degree in relation as to why they are asking for the drug neither does it, as far as my reading has so far advanced, say that there are any grounds for refusal to supply by the pharmacist – it just seems to say that the supply must be recorded including the customers name and address.
What makes you think that a pharmacist has no grounds for refusal to supply? A pharmacist is under no obligation to supply ANY medication to anyone, even if the customer has a script. This even includes refusal of supply of basic medications such as panadol. This is the same basic principle as a retail store where the store can refuse sale of anything in their store to anyone. What makes you think a pharmacy is any different? Of course if they refuse supply when it is appropriate, that is a breach of code of ethics and is a different matter alltogether.
Fact of the matter is pharmacist has to:
- check that the medication is appropriate to your condition, symptoms and history. And YES if they think you don't need it, THEY CAN REFUSE SUPPLY.
- if they want to supply it, record the supply appropriately (even on project stop)
- When supplying it, counsel appropriately on the use of the medication as that is part of their duties
Just accept that everytime you want pseudo, they need to ask you questions and see your driver's license. It definitely does take time and can get annoying as some of you have expressed. Some pharmacies may be a bit more relaxed on their supply guidelines but that's their perogative and tbh shows unprofessionalism and a general lack of care.
Maybe if people stopped being unpleasant jackasses everytime they get asked questions, they won't get refused supply all the time.
Hope this clears it up for you.
Thanks. Ihad tried looking but couldn't work out where to find clause 55 or any other sections it was refering to, clickong on the caluse 55 link just has a page saying forfieture of goods with consent. so yeah i couldn't work the site out :P that's why i asked.
What makes you think that a pharmacist has no grounds for refusal to supply? I was making the point that the Law does not appear to contain grounds for refusal, NOT that an individual pharmacist can not refuse.
I don't like the stance, that I have faced, of "We can't give it you – it's the Law" when really they mean "We don't want to give it you because we think you are a potential abuser" If that's what they mean they should say so.
If a pharmacist refuses supply that's their professional/commercial decision and they should not try to blame the Law as seems all too common these days in many aspects of of our lives.
I'm happy to let a pharmacist not supply me – I can then choose to go elsewhere – but I don't like people hiding behind "The Law" when it's not the case.
I'm happy to let a pharmacist not supply me – I can then choose to go elsewhere – but I don't like people hiding behind "The Law" when it's not the case.
Fair enough, I understand your point.
I guess a lot of them have the tendency to talk around the situation to try not directly offend you.
Personally I get really p***ed off that the Govt resticts efficacious drugs just because some idiots misuse them.
Then being restricted or banned that leads to crime , substances that have no quality control that lead to health issues way beyond what would have occured if not so restricted .
In the 50s there was a nose clearing drug called Benzedrine, it was really effective at clearing the nose not like the stuff today which dries up the nose and also everywhere else in the body ...this was banned because some people took excess amounts to get high.
And this is in a society where the only legal restriction on consuming vast amounts of alcohol relate to driving and some occupations.
In the 50s there was a nose clearing drug called Benzedrine
Meth-amphetamine is quite good at clearing the nasal passages as well, or so I hear.
I think i'd rather them use "the law" excuse than tell me they won't sell it because they think i'm a druggie.
I can just imagine how some people would react to that.. especially if you ended up saying it to an actual druggie that's already on edge.
Personally I get really p***ed off that the Govt resticts efficacious drugs just because some idiots misuse them.
so do I, but not at the government for responding to the abuse.
And this is in a society where the only legal restriction on consuming vast amounts of alcohol relate to driving and some occupations.
society currently regards alcohol as legal and only restricts its use when doing so is a danger to others.
society currently regards alcohol as legal and only restricts its use when doing so is a danger to others.
Except in some large areas, eg NT
So got asked yesterday why I was buying so much Codral Original (I bought 2 packs in the last month) I hardly think this is excessive
And this is in a society where the only legal restriction on consuming vast amounts of alcohol relate to driving and some occupations.
You kidding? We have plenty of stupid alcohol laws on the books too. In WA it is illegal to drink alcohol in any unlicensed public place. e.g. in the park at a barbecue. Tobacco has fewer restrictions, but increasing. The trend is overwhelmingly for more laws, more restrictions, and more centralization of power.
Just thought I might add, for those complaining about having to show drivers license, that my GP prescribes Demazin for me and when I get the script filled, I still also have to show my drivers license.
Does anyone know if you can get sustained release pseudoephedrine on prescription?
Pseudo works quite well but for me it's only effective for about 3 hours. I can't take the next tablet earlier because they contain paracetamol which has an active life of 4 hours, so would not want to damage my liver.
Overseas you can get 120mg and 180mg sustained release formulaes {meaning relief for 8 and 12hours). They are in supermarkets overseas but ofcourse if they exist they would be prescription in Australia.
Anyone been prescribed a sustained release tablet?>
Not sure however you can just buy pseudo alone without the paracetamol. I always buy just pseudo tablets.
Fellow Adelaideians, I bring good news!
I went into Chemist Warehouse in Rundle Mall (downstairs in the place that has David Jones is called – Adelaide Central Plaza I think) and asked for some pseudoephedrine. They asked me the usual is it for you\have you used it before, then they gave me a little form which asked for my details, my symptoms and what I'd tried already and asked for my driver's license. I then proceeded to look at the things they sell for the next 10 or so minutes after which I had a box of Sudafed tablets.
Not bad considering it was the first chemist I tried to get it from today.
Overseas you can get 120mg and 180mg sustained release formulaes {meaning relief for 8 and 12hours). They are in supermarkets overseas but ofcourse if they exist they would be prescription in Australia.
You can get a 120mg with antihistamine in a slow release OTC. But it's indicated for allergic rhinitis-related congestion. Comes in a box of 6 tablets.
Anyone know where a pharmacy on the Gold Coast that still sells pseudoephedrine cold and flu tablets?
Are there any Southern Adelaide pharmacies which sell it?
I've been in bed for nearly a week now with awful congestion(even in my ears) and asked my partner to pick some up for me. But of course, his black clothes and long hair meant everywhere has turned him away... Ugh! Stereotypes ftl. The new formula stuff is useless, it's just expensive Panadol.
You can buy SR versions in any pharmacy, if they don't have any, get them to order it in. Simple.
Also, people should stop complaining about showing drivers license, at least you can still buy it OTC in Aust. One time i went to Thailand, i asked for pseudo, and the pharmacist said you need a 'hospital' prescription. I was quite surprised about that in Thailand as you can buy heaps of other things OTC there, which are prescription only here.
I bought proper Codral with pseudoephedrine just last week. They had the new crap on the shelf, and the real stuff behind the counter.
I had to show ID, which was annoying, but no other problem.
Manged to get a pack without too much hassle from Chemists Warehouse. A bit expensive at $13 for a 12 pack of Sudafed though.
Mr. Cutts, the butcher. writes...
I was reading (may have been a doco I saw on SBS) how qualudes ceased to be a problem almost overnight when the pharmaceutical (Chemical?) companies agreed to stop making the raw ingredient, it was too difficult for illegal manufacturers to make.
IIRC there is only a handful of factories that make the pseudo. If they stop selling it to criminals, and when it is only available on prescription from pharmacies it would cease to be a problem, wouldn't it?
There's too much money in methamphetamine. Qualudes were a niche type thing that got filled with other similar drugs I guess.
Apparently most of the pseudoephedrine now comes from china as 'Contact NT'. Being strict on PE sales here probably reduced/ or will reduce the number of smaller labs...but that just means bigger more organised criminal groups will take up the slack you would think.
I've never needed pseudoephedrine but talking to a work mate who used to rely on it for sinus issues, I can understand how restricting it would make people angry. Being treated almost like a criminal is awful I'm sure.
My local chemist doesn't even carry it anymore. Not even for prescriptions.
PE doesnt do JACK, i have proven it today, took 2 x PE cold & flu and felt no better at all. My wonderful girlfriend got me some GOOD STUFF i.e Codral Original, and all you need is two tabs of that, and its back on, you can do anything.
I dont use it to go back into work, I use it to feel half normal and still rest all day but not feel like 100% crap like you do without it.
YEWW go codral!!
Reviving this thread to whinge about this topic.
Went into the chemist today to pick up some cold and flu pills for my partner who caught a cold.
Asked specifically for Codral original recipe day and night and they tried to sell me the new PE stuff using the line of 'try this and if it doesn't get better then come back'
Screw that I thought, then I have to pay for 2 rounds of medication.
Told the lady that I wasn't interested and only wanted the original recipe. I then offered them my ID (drivers license) if they wanted to record it.
The lady looks at the chemist for a few seconds and both look at me before I say 'look, you don't have to sell it to me if you don't want to'.
They give the nod, take my ID and away we go.
The whole time I was in there I felt like I was guilty of something and had any other people been around I would have felt self conscious and embarrassed.
I understand why the process is like this – I just don't think it should be this awkward.
If someone specifically asked for pseudo pills I have no issue with people being required to give ID but I don't think chemist staff should make a big (public scene) issue of it and try to steer people away from the product.
Anyone else experienced this or similar?
If someone specifically asked for pseudo pills I have no issue with people being required to give ID but I don't think chemist staff should make a big (public scene) issue of it and try to steer people away from the product.
I'm at work currently and on the phones I've got terrible ear blockage problems caused by sinus issues (my ears are terrible and this always happens). I'm about to go downstairs to the chemist to see how I go.
edit:
Okay, back. I didn't get asked for a license but the chemist asked me a bunch of stuff and went through the directions very carefully. She prescribed me Codral Day & Night which has codeine in it as well for some reason.
Anyone else experienced this or similar?
Yes, several times.
There is absolutely no excuse for it. None. If a pharmacist is prepared to supply a phenylephrine-based product, that means they have determined the customer has a legitimate symptoms that would be treated by a systemic decongestant. At that point, the pharmacist has no basis on which to withhold a pseudoephedrine product if the customer requests it.
If a pharmacist is not prepared to do this in every case, then they should not stock any pseudoephedrine at all.
In regards to Project Stop, I personally believe the policy of giving pharmacists a mandate to police pseudoephedrine supply at the point-of-sale is moronic. A pharmacists role at the point-of-sale should be to determine whether an OTC drug is indicated or contraindicated. The police and courts are the ones who should be scrutinising a person who raises red flags or has purchased 5 boxes of Codral in one day – NOT pharmacists.
I had no trouble getting some at Arundel (Gold Coast) last time I had a need for them. I just told em the PE hadn't done squat and I would like something with pseudoephedrine in it. Showed my license and after the usual have you used it before questions was on my way. I did look pretty messed up though.
My favourite was when the girl at the chemist tried telling my brother the Sudafed PE stuff was chemically identical to the pseudo lol. You don't even deal with an actual pharmacist most of the time anyway, just a glorified checkout chick. Unless you look like a junkie my local chemist doesn't really care.
I picked up a script for Endone (Oxycodone, Schedule 8 controlled drug) for a relative and they just handed it over. I thought there would be some kind of cursory check for such a potent prescription drug considering my name wasn't on the script.
(Oxycodone, Schedule 8 controlled drug)
A friend of mine was on that after back surgery only for a few weeks. He went through hell for a few days after it ran out just through withdrawal. Pain killers are scary. Perhaps you didn't look like you needed a fix? Hah.
Endone (Oxycodone, Schedule 8 controlled drug)
That stuff is good. Had it after an operation last year. Works really well when you take it in conjunction with a panadol. Magnifies the effect, so the doctor said.
Finally found a chemist who would sell me some. Okay, sure, legally they were obliged to take down my licence but at least they didn't make me feel like a bloody criminal whilst they did it.
As to the useless PE varieties. Can the ACCC go them for false advertising?
Course not, it would be the gov. suiing themselves as they are the ones that approved the drug for that indication. The companies selling it are only advertising it as doing what the gov says it does (along with all the tests and studies they used when deciding to approve it)
Stay tuned for the next round of prohibition. I went to the chemist today to buy a box of Panafen Plus. The girl asked me had I taken it before, what I was taking it for, when was the last time I had bought it..etc. On and on, and she wasn't going to shortcut the question process, she had to say her spiel. I got a bit annoyed, and just answered her questions real quick. Didn't help I had a banging headache, which was why I needed it in the first place! And yes, I felt like a criminal.
She then tells me that from 1st January they will be recording buyer details at that pharmacy. The details will only be recorded at that pharmacy and not shared, at this stage.
Hands me a leaflet, which says it is not compulsory (yet) but it is a decision of that pharmacy. Leaflet also says that there is a possibility that "in the future, recording will become a national requirement, or that products containing Codeine will only be available with a valid prescription"
I can see not so far down the track that there will be a huge thread on it, just like this one.
Hmm... I'm just wondering if this can be an alternative –
I'm allergic to codeine and a bunch of other stuff which basically cancels out all the cold and flu meds. For this reason (and because it's on all my medical records), all the doctors I know have no hesitation prescribing me certain steroids as relief for the cold or coughs. Can't remember what name it is off the top of my head but it comes in a giant bottle and you only are allowed to take it for 3 days anyways (lots of leftovers).
It's probably not ideal but maybe this can be an alternative for all those who can't get cold/flu temporary relief meds?
Disclaimer: no medical experience or knowledge other than my own medical needs so may have side effects I'm not aware of.
felt like a criminal.
I think you guys feel like that because thats what you think we think.
Trust me we dont, we are more likely to think
1) you are abusing this medication
eg, all these regulars coming in for Nurofen/Panafen+ for love of god if you take this it HINDERS healing and the problem becomes chronic as its not fully healed.
Ice the damn thing first okay?
Yes it takes away the pain but be prepare to hurt yourself more as you dont feel pain. Pain is your body's way of saying "Dont move" !!
I have a L5 S1 slip disc for entire 2012 and till this day Ive never taken ANY pain killers.
2) you think this will shorten your cold (which it wont)
You got FOOLED by Coldral's Ads
3) This will help with all your symptoms (which it wont)
No idea how many times after ppl ask for CF meds and I ask what symptoms they have. They tell me
Sore throat or Runny nose or Dry or phlegmy cough and then I think to myself...
idiot.
Final note
I pray for the day codeine becomes a prescription drug. Then I dont have to ask these questions ever again nor do I have to spend time recording this down. And I will charge you dispensing fee.
Consider why the government want to make it S4, cus ppl do get seriously hurt from abusing, misuse these medications. I know from my chemist, Mrs AK died from Nurofen plus abuse.
Hospital called and wanted to know cus she apparently was hiding it from the hospital staff while she was on her death bed. She had 2 kids. I will never forget her.
Can't remember what name it is off the top of my head but it comes in a giant bottle and you only are allowed to take it for 3 days anyways (lots of leftovers).
Im gonna say its panafcort, its anti inflammatory like ibuprofen, diclofenac and aspirin.
It should help you if cough is due to inflammation in the lungs, I cant think of anything else it will do in a "cold/virus/bacterial infection".
Next time talk to your pcist about your symptoms, there's plenty of other stuff I can recommend if you are allergic to codeine.
The chemist near my home is very expensive, the one near my friends house is one of those mega -chemists so whenever I am out that way I go to the chemist and grab a few things.
The last time I went, I got a ventolin, a packet of Restavit, mild sleeping tablets, a packet of panadol with codeine and a bottle of multivitamins and oh my Goodness (capital G!) the questions I got asked!
I was furious by the time I left, they took my license details for the Restavit, asked me what each and every item was for, and I lied through my teeth! How dare they ask my personal medical details in a shop in front of 6 other customers!
SO sick and tired of being treated like a criminal just because I want some over the counter medication!
I could understand if it was prescription only and I was trying to get it without a script.
Don't even get me started on cold and flu tablets, I have 6 people living in my house atm, 4 of them don't have licenses, so if and when we do get sick, it's going to be a matter of who ever needs to go to work gets the cold and flu tablets, the rest of us will have to suffer!
I hate being embarrassed just because I'm ill.
SO sick and tired of being treated like a criminal just because I want some over the counter medication!
Likewise.
I am interrogated when I buy hayfever medication. Questions like this every time:
-Is it for you
-What are your symptoms
-Have you had it before
I feel like saying "FFS just sell this stuff to me and I'm out of here" but never do.
Maybe one day :D
No idea how many times after ppl ask for CF meds and I ask what symptoms they have. They tell me
No idea what you are talking about there. The pseudoephedrine genuinely helps with the blocked sinuses and associated sinus pain. And the paracetamol helps with general aches and pains that tend to come with a cold.
I've never had any delusion that it shortens duration of the cold. It just some of the symptoms a little more bearable.
The last time I went, I got a ventolin, a packet of Restavit, mild sleeping tablets, a packet of panadol with codeine and a bottle of multivitamins and oh my Goodness (capital G!) the questions I got asked!
How dare they ask my personal medical details in a shop in front of 6 other customers!
I dunno if they were asking it loud or not and if this is partly why your mad, but it's a legal requirement to ask these medical questions as posted above, for S3 medications (e.g. most behind the counter meds, ventolin, restavit) This is to prevent the misuse of medicines for people telling the truth, basically to see if it's safe for you to take, some people aren't all too health literate and quite ignorat.
E.g. Some people actually go in ask for something then say a friend told me to take this because of this reason, when in fact you shouldn't. Another reason is to see if it potentially interacts with other medication you may be taking or other medical conditions.
Assuming you have ventolin, you're asthmatic? If you are, did you know a side effect of restavit is respiratory depression (can slow down your breathing). Codeine can (infrequently) cause respiratory depression too and bronchospasm (constriction of muscle in airways = difficult to breathe).
This is why it's necessary to ask questions. Pharmacy staff have a job to do, procedure to follow, as well as a legal obligation. Take it up with the government.
I am interrogated when I buy hayfever medication. Questions like this every time:
Look, if you're a regular purchaser of certain products, i understand it gets annoying as hell to keep getting interrogated, but they don't know that, they will always assume you're a first time buyer of that product.
Look, if you're a regular purchaser of certain products, i understand it gets annoying as hell to keep getting interrogated, but they don't know that, they will always assume you're a first time buyer of that product.
Not if you go to the same chemist each time. Unfortunately I went to the chemist nearest me for the panafen plus, instead of my regular.
I get that all the idiots who don't know any better, and people on other meds need to be asked..but when you are struggling with a pounding head, and just want to get the stuff into you for some relief, it doesn't take a genius behind the counter see that you know what you want, you have had them before, and more importantly you want them asap, not after their little soapbox spiel, complete with attitude.
It's when they act like demigods being asked for rain by the peasants is when I get annoyed. Do I really have to sacrifice a virgin just to get some damn headache tablets. Geez.
It shouldn't have to take people wondering what they should wear to the chemist so they look legit and not like the local drug cook!
I think you guys feel like that because thats what you think we think.
Trust me we dont, we are more likely to think
1) you are abusing this medication
aka junkies aka (sometimes) as criminals
eg, all these regulars coming in for Nurofen/Panafen+ for love of god if you take this it HINDERS healing and the problem becomes chronic as its not fully healed.
Ice the damn thing first okay?
Yep, I will remember this when I get a blinder of a headache next. Will stick my head in a bucket of ice and try that first.
This thread was about how hard it is to get pseudoephedrine over the counter, and being treated like a junkie trying to get a fix by some chemists. I only bought up the codeine containing meds because it looks like they are going the same way. Nobody else has had this happen yet, so we don't want this thread derailed. I'm sure there will be a whole new bunch of innocent people starting a new thread over that when the time comes. It's really a whole other matter. FWIW, I know a lot of people with long term conditions that manage their pain in a variety of ways, and only a few of them resort only to pain killers. Nobody should be judged for asking for them!
They limited pseudo drugs so drug makers couldn't get hold of the ingredients to make illegal drugs through those means. I can't see the same reason being applied to codeine containing meds? So will they make up a reason for limiting them? Lets wait and see.
In the meantime, the whole thing reeks of nanny state. If people are stupid enough to abuse any drugs, or lie to health professionals about using them, so be it. Darwinism at work if they keel over.
Consider why the government want to make it S4, cus ppl do get seriously hurt from abusing, misuse these medications. I know from my chemist, Mrs AK died from Nurofen plus abuse.
what about personal responsibility.
Why as a average customer that uses the meds responsibly do I have to pay for Mrs AK being stupid. I am tired of this nanny state over reacting to people what can not handle the fact that, hey maybe I have to think for myself sometimes.
why not make booze S4, people die from abusing it all the time. I can go buy a crap load of mehto and chug that. why not make that prescription. Or o can go buy paint stripper, and get off my tits on that. the funny thing have o issues handing over ID to make sure im not just buying crap loads that's fine. but don't take it out of my hands because of morons or make me feel like a cavity search is about to happen.
why not make every pill prescription only, and clog the doctors rooms with more people trying to get relief.
at the moment all my local ones have to close by lunch time because they have seen their max number of people for the day. why because they only want some crap that should not even be prescription.
Bactrobban an antibiotic ointment, why the hell is that prescription. its dam handy in preventing infections on my uncles diabetic legs if he gets a scratch. but to get a new tube he has to take off time and go to a freaking doc for some bloody ointment. its not like he is going to go on an ointment bender (altho that would be funny to see)
some of the questions get annoying. If only they new what other meds I already take. I need a whole lot more than some random chemist monkey asking if i was allergic (that is another annoying story altogether).
How about getting something added to your Medicare card that says.
I am a responsible Adult. now F off.
because giving anti biotics to any Joe blow will lead to antibiotic resistance which is already a mega problem with todays healthcare syatem, which is another topic for another day.
anyways pharmacy staff, esp pharmacist, despite you being regular customer, should always be asking the same typea of questions with every customer for s3 meds by law. its out of our hands.
if your a regular customer or.buyer of a certain products, you can just answer the questions before there asked and be off in 10 secs.
e.g. yes I've had this before, for a <insert reason>, on no other meds , i know to take this short term. done, now your off to pay. only soneone real anal n life would make you answer question by question
because giving anti biotics to any Joe blow will lead to antibiotic resistance which is already a mega problem with todays healthcare syatem, which is another topic for another day.
its a topical ointment, freely available over the counter in many other countries like US, UK and our kiwi brothers. but for some reason Australia sees it needing a prescription.
I could handle it being pharmacy only that's fine. but dont make me waste my time for a freaking ointment.
its like scopolmine patches for motion sickness. hands down the most effective treatment out ther. but not available in australia. because its a type of mild anesthetic. but again available in places like NZ, US, UK from pharmacies.
over all if i had to choose between answering a buttload of stupid questions or having the product banned or become prescription only then i'm all for answering stupid questions. just don't bow down to people that refuse to take responsiblity. If i F up and take too much, whos fault is that? its not the chemists, its not a doctors, its not little timmy down the road. it is my fault, and i have to suffer the consequences.
The girl asked me had I taken it before, what I was taking it for, when was the last time I had bought it..etc. On and on, and she wasn't going to shortcut the question process, she had to say her spiel
You have to realise that they are just doing their job, so don't take it as a personal attack. Because it's medication that can be abused so easily, they have to show some sort of initiative in finding out who is buying it and how they are using it. Otherwise it would be negligence on their part which is obviously very serious for pharmacists.
She then tells me that from 1st January they will be recording buyer details at that pharmacy.
Just out of curiosity, which pharmacy chain did you visit?
I recently went to the chemist to get pseudoephedrine (the alternate stuff doesn't work). I was quite sick with a cold; red eyes, bags, a bit shaky, etc. I was treated with a huge amount of suspision. At first they said they didn't have any, but I wasn't convinced so I pushed on and explained that I don't sleep with clogged sinuses and really needed sleep. At the end they gave in and sold me a box.
When you need it most while sick, the pharmacists are even more unlikely to sell it. Buy it when your healthy and fit so you don't look the drug addict part.
Just out of curiosity, which pharmacy chain did you visit?
It was a Chem Plus, and the way I read the note it was particular to that pharmacy.
I went to the Chemist in Norwest a couple of years ago asking for Mersyndol Night Strength. She refused to give it to me. I was halfway through two root canals and needed pain relief at night.
So I went to the shelf in front of the shop, picked up a packet of their home brand Strong Pain Relief and a packet of Restavit. No worries, she sold it to me.
Half a Restavit tablet with two Strong Pain Relief tablets = 2 Mersyndol Night Strength.
Problem? Solved!
I read recently that Australia are following the US soon in making anything with Codeine in it (including Panadeine Extra, etc.) a prescription drug.
Getting Forte is going to be harder.
You have to realise that they are just doing their job, so don't take it as a personal attack. Because it's medication that can be abused so easily, they have to show some sort of initiative in finding out who is buying it and how they are using it. Otherwise it would be negligence on their part which is obviously very serious for pharmacists.
I disagree. I have a good local pharmacist I try and go to if I can. He is an older bloke and has been in the business for yonks. Now he asks questions and gives genuinely helpful advice on meds, but he always does it in a way that is respectful and not demeaning.
On the other hand a lot of these cowboy pharmacists working at Chemist Warehouse and the like all come across as inexperienced and seem have no idea how to be professional in doing their job.
On the other hand a lot of these cowboy pharmacists working at Chemist Warehouse and the like all come across as inexperienced and seem have no idea how to be professional in doing their job.
If you get that far. Jumped up counter assistants are the one's that annoy me. They seem to take great delight in wielding the power.
Way back in the day, when they started using computers in pharmacies, I always thought it would all be interconnected somewhere on some database. So if you bought codeine from one place, you would be on there. Ditto pseudo. It would make life much easier if you could just wield your DL, they look it up to make sure you are not buying too much, or any other info you may have supplied like other meds, then just give you the stuff.
That's how they made it sound it would work way back when they first took Panadeine Forte off the shelves and made it script only.
But to have to make it past the moods, prejudices and pomposity of pharmacy staff is really demeaning in a lot of cases.
We all know they have to do it, but there are ways and means in which to do it. There is still such a thing as customer service.
But to have to make it past the moods, prejudices and pomposity of pharmacy staff is really demeaning in a lot of cases.
Quite a lot of pharmacy staff these days are pharmacy students.
I will never forget one day when I went to the Chemist at Hammondville NSW.
This young male pharmacy student took my script but forgot to take my medicare card. No damage, I'd been there before.
I came back in about 10 minutes later to see the owner/pharmacist tearing strips off this poor young man. The student looked about to cry. I jumped in and told the Pharmacist that I had thrust my script at the young man and bolted and that it was my fault, not the student's fault – not at all.
He gave me an oily smile and looked furious that I had stepped in. I told the young student that he was doing a wonderful job and was very personable. And NEVER to turn out like that bloke there.
Then told them I would never be back.
So now I drive out to Chipping Norton – Little Tree Pharmacy – and get the best service of any store I've ever been to in my life.
Take your money elsewhere people. You don't NEED to put up with this crap!
No idea what you are talking about there. The pseudoephedrine genuinely helps with the blocked sinuses and associated sinus pain. And the paracetamol helps with general aches and pains that tend to come with a cold.
I've never had any delusion that it shortens duration of the cold. It just some of the symptoms a little more bearable.
I didnt say you did I?
I said some patients think it does shorten colds
And also I mentioned that the symptom that bothered them the most of sore throat, cough etc as stated which CF meds will do nothing.
It shouldn't have to take people wondering what they should wear to the chemist so they look legit and not like the local drug cook!
aka junkies aka (sometimes) as criminals
ppl abusing meds arent criminals. get this straight. Ive almost never suspect anyone is a criminal, misuse Yes, making illegal drugs, barely ever.
Why as a average customer that uses the meds responsibly do I have to pay for Mrs AK being stupid. I am tired of this nanny state over reacting to people what can not handle the fact that, hey maybe I have to think for myself sometimes.
why not make booze S4, people die from abusing it all the time
I wish ppl dont abuse drugs either. Maybe the government reckons they can save more of your tax payers $ on other areas of health instead of on these abusers. So making it prescription.
Bactrobban an antibiotic ointment, why the hell is that prescription. its dam handy in preventing infections on my uncles diabetic legs if he gets a scratch. but to get a new tube he has to take off time and go to a freaking doc for some bloody ointment.
Bactroban barely works anyway. Theres a reason why its Non-PBS. It does work very well :)
Hes a diabetic, he sees Dr frequently so Dr can keep an eye on it.
Also this prevents misdiagnosing by patients so they can actually seek medical advice instead of using Google.
What if its fungal? Viral? Would you know?
I'm a doctor... I can _never_ get pseudoephedrine off a pharmacist.
I go in... they say they simply don't have any in stock! I don't pull rank or mention I'm a doctor... because that's pretty lame.
Then my wife goes in, asks for exactly the same stuff, and she gets the pseudoephedrine 9 times out of 10.
Makes me want to cry... the pseudoephedrine is WAY better than the other crap... Why can't their just be a requirement to show driver's licence and have it listed on a national register to pick up people who go drug shopping?
Also this prevents misdiagnosing by patients so they can actually seek medical advice instead of using Google.
What if its fungal? Viral? Would you know?
That sounds like a whole other thread. Go start it someplace else, as it could make a very interesting, informative thread considering the amount of people that use Dr. Google.
This thread has been really good up till now, and we don't want to derail it.
Agree, its damn annoying PE whatever it is doesn't do jack for me so I want pseudo... most the time if I have bad cold I want the home brand cold and flu tablets with pseudo, hydrochloride and paracetemol in them... Whilst I couldn't care less about handing over the ID, more and more I'm getting told a straight no, or being given the other stuff regardless by the pharmacist.
This even from places I can get it time to time....
Drives one mad.
Bactroban barely works anyway. Theres a reason why its Non-PBS. It does work very well :)
it does indeed work
Hes a diabetic, he sees Dr frequently so Dr can keep an eye on it.
doesn't mean he can afford to take time off every time he needs a new tube
Also this prevents misdiagnosing by patients so they can actually seek medical advice instead of using Google.
What if its fungal? Viral? Would you know?
doesn't matter no diagnosis its preventative. he gets scratch, he its a dab on = no infection.
has kept him infection free for years now doing this. or would it be preferred that he wait to go to doctor and chance an infection that needs more harsh anti biotics and costs the gov a lot more in bulk billing. Preventing an infection a lot better than treating one.
and as for the 20 questions with pesudo. my best story is I used to work for a place and then a year or so later after i left I went back to get some demazin (I miss the 12 hour ones but 6 hour does fine) and they refused to give me any. at first they said they didn't have any but i could in fact see it, and eventually they gave me one pack (which is fine) but then made an underhanded comment that I shouldn't go around buying more from other chemists.
another story was a different chemist where i get my normal meds from (including ones that are ALOT more controlled than demazin, as in needing authority scripts) refused to give me demazin. I was like you give me worse every month adn you refuse to sell me cold meds.
as in needing authority scripts)
Whats an authority script? How does it differ from a regular script?
Excuse my ignorance, just curious.
the alternate stuff doesn't work)
All the pharmacists know that the new stuff is rubbish too.
If the govt is so concerned with "safety", why not just sell smaller boxes? 6 at a time is fine.
I've figured out the solution to this at my local chemist. Go in there wearing my civilian clothes I get the million questions. They give it to me but not until after I parrot the answers they're expecting to hear in order for them to say yes. Go in there in my work uniform (I work for a local Council) and it's no questions asked. Just goes to show how they're pre-judging whether or not to give you something based on your clothing.
Are there new regulations in Queensland now? We've tried Priceline, Maloufs and Chemist Warehouse and all say they will not sell without prescription. is this a new law, or do they not like the look of us?
Surely pseudo ephedrine is either a prescription medicine or not and pharmacies should have to sell it to you if it isn't. Not make some sort of judgement based on looks, although why a middle aged woman is particularly suspicious, I don't know. I don't have a problem showing my drivers licence.
Are there new regulations in Queensland now?
Nope, just bought some yesterday without a prescription (in QLD). Just had to show my licence.
Just go to a smaller Chemist (not the big commercial perfume selling chains like you've listed), you may have some more luck.
Replying to keyboardmama, but forgot to quote!
An authority script is one where the doctor has to get an authorisation number from Medicare before issuing the prescription. This applies to about 450 different medications I think it is, and the doctor used to have to phone Medicare every single time they issued a script for that particular medication to get the authorisation number – so if you had to go in regularly for a chronic condition, and needed one of these medications, it just meant more time sitting in the doctor's office whilst he was on hold to the Authority call centre!! They have now "streamlined" the process for a number of these medications, not sure how it works.
For example, I take Imigran FDT (Fast Disintegrating Tablets) for migraine. Ordinary Imigran, no authority needed, but for these ones, not only is an authorisation number required, you had to meet certain criteria in order for the doctor to even prescribe it in the first place i.e. you had to have previously been on a trial of prophylactic medication (in order to try to prevent the migraines) for at least 12 months and it was ineffective, it had to be proven that alternative available migraine medications hadn't worked, etc etc. Quite a rigmarole, but at least now the doctor is able to just print the script out for me and the authorisation number is on it, so it must be one of the "streamlined" ones now.
ETA: Have managed to find some info on the Medicare site, and apparently a number of these medications are "streamlined" and anything designated as such has a predetermined authority code.
We have way too many regulations
I agree. I take Imigran because it is the only migraine medication that works for me, and the FDT variety gets into my system a lot quicker than the regular Imigran. I don't like taking them, I'd rather not have to take them, they're not cheap (although at least now they're about half the price they used to be!) and to be honest, there have been times when I would just about sell my soul rather than have to suffer another migraine – and to have to jump through hoops just to get them (just like people in this thread who need pseudoephedrine for a genuine reason) is just frustrating and unnecessary.
Unfortunately all these regulations have come about because there are too many people who abuse the system (and the drugs of course). Hence the major hassles for those of us in genuine need, and more and more restrictions being brought in all the time. I went to the chemist to buy some soluble Panadeine – if I can catch a migraine early enough, sometimes a couple of these can help head it off at the pass so to speak – you'd think I was a druggie with a needle hanging out of my arm from the "interrogation" and all the carry-on with ID etc. I'd bought them from the same pharmacy 6 months ago with no hassles, but now they seem to be going down the path of the other Panadeine products. Won't be surprised if soon they end up being prescription-only as well.
Speaking of pseudoephedrine reminds me of an experience I had at the pharmacy when I had a virus last year. I had a severe cough, normal cough medicine was about as useful as cordial (most of them are useless anyway), and I was getting practically no sleep because as soon as I lay down, that triggered off uncontrollable coughing fits. So off I went to the pharmacy and explained the situation. I should have spoken to one of the pharmacists in hindsight, but they were both flat out, so the pharmacy assistant showed me a couple of different types. I selected one and then said "this doesn't have pseudoephedrine in it, does it, because I can't take that as it gives me heart palpitations". Well, I think all he listened to was "pseudoephedrine" because he started carrying on about "why do you want something with that ingredient, what are you going to do with it, have you already been to another pharmacy etc etc". I was trying to explain again that I DIDN'T want something with that ingredient, but he just wasn't listening. He was making such a big deal out of it, I was almost expecting alarms to start going off and the TRG to come crashing through the front door, you'd think I was a major crim or something. Needless to say, everyone was staring at us by this point. I eventually managed to get the cough medicine and get out of there (I was too ill to go driving around to other chemists), but not a pleasant experience.
I agree. I take Imigran because it is the only migraine medication that works for me, and the FDT variety gets into my system a lot quicker than the regular Imigran. I don't like taking them, I'd rather not have to take them, they're not cheap (although at least now they're about half the price they used to be!) and to be honest, there have been times when I would just about sell my soul rather than have to suffer another migraine – and to have to jump through hoops just to get them (just like people in this thread who need pseudoephedrine for a genuine reason) is just frustrating and unnecessary.
I know how you feel, I was taking Imigran every day for 18 months. Max prescription 2 doses times 5 repeats, max 1 dose a day. I was taking the nasal spray and was lucky that it worked well for me so that I didn't need the injections.
Out of curiosity how much is it these days? At the time it was $14 a dose. Add on having to see a non bulk bill doctor every 10 days roughly and it wasn't cheap, at least until you hit the safety net.
Still the drug certainly saved my life, so there is that :)
Whenever I've got a cold, I always get the real stuff. One box is more than enough for me (enough for two cold/flus really).
I've had to give my ID each time, but 3 times in about 3 years shouldn't really upset anyone.
The chemists are generally understanding when I ask for the "original formula which actually works well".
If I ever get trouble I'll drop a "so why do you still stock it at all then?"
I know how you feel, I was taking Imigran every day for 18 months. Max prescription 2 doses times 5 repeats, max 1 dose a day. I was taking the nasal spray and was lucky that it worked well for me so that I didn't need the injections.
Out of curiosity how much is it these days? At the time it was $14 a dose. Add on having to see a non bulk bill doctor every 10 days roughly and it wasn't cheap, at least until you hit the safety net.
When I first started taking Imigran, it wasn't on the PBS, and was about $45 a script! Now it can be anywhere between about $22 to $29 a script (for 4 tablets), depending on which pharmacy you go to. I usually go to Chemist Warehouse or order 3 repeats at a time from somewhere like Pharmacy Direct to try to keep the cost down. I haven't used the nasal spray for a long time, but I think it's around $20 for two doses? (again, probably depends on where you go to). Thankfully I've never had to use the injections either, as they're still not on the PBS as far as I know – the initial injection kit is about $130 I think and it's around $124 just for two refills!!
I went to a chemist recently and asked for the proper codral and said I find the new stuff to be useless. The pharmacist told me that only 1 in 10 people find phenylephrine to be as effective as pseudoephedrine. Then told me if I need more to send my wife in as I will only be able to buy 1 pack every 3 days. I was expecting a lecture and that but he was really helpful!
For example, I take Imigran FDT (Fast Disintegrating Tablets) for migraine. Ordinary Imigran, no authority needed, but for these ones, not only is an authorisation number required, you had to meet certain criteria in order for the doctor to even prescribe it in the first place i.e. you had to have previously been on a trial of prophylactic medication (in order to try to prevent the migraines) for at least 12 months and it was ineffective, it had to be proven that alternative available migraine medications hadn't worked, etc etc. Quite a rigmarole, but at least now the doctor is able to just print the script out for me and the authorisation number is on it, so it must be one of the "streamlined" ones now
Why would you?
Imigran FDT with authority: $21 for 4.
Imigran FDT without authority: $96 for 20.
Just pay for it yourself (tell your doctor that you're willing to) and you can get it cheaper with no government involvement.
(this is one reason I think that true universal health care is a bad idea. a universal safety net, sure – but the system as we have it is horrendously inefficient.)
Why would you?
Imigran FDT with authority: $21 for 4.
Imigran FDT without authority: $96 for 20.
Just pay for it yourself (tell your doctor that you're willing to) and you can get it cheaper with no government involvement.
(this is one reason I think that true universal health care is a bad idea. a universal safety net, sure – but the system as we have it is horrendously inefficient.)
The only problem with getting all the repeats at once is that the prescription has to be endorsed as a "Regulation 24" script, and none of the GPs I have been to have been prepared to do so. Under the Medicare rules:
"Under this regulation, original and repeat supplies of pharmaceutical benefits can be supplied at the one time if a medical practitioner, a midwife or a nurse practitioner is first satisfied that certain conditions apply, then endorses the PBS prescription 'Regulation 24'. RPBS prescriptions may be endorsed 'hardship conditions apply'.
The medical practitioner, midwife or nurse practitioner must first be satisfied all the following conditions apply:
The maximum PBS quantity is insufficient for the patient's treatment; AND
The patient has a chronic illness or lives in a remote area where access to PBS supplies is limited; AND
The patient would suffer great hardship trying to get the pharmaceutical benefit on separate occasions. "
and although it would be cheaper for me to do it this way, several GPs have told me that I do not "qualify" under the above regulation (except for the chronic illness part) and will not endorse the prescription.
The only problem with getting all the repeats at once is that the prescription has to be endorsed as a "Regulation 24" script, and none of the GPs I have been to have been prepared to do so. Under the Medicare rules:
That's if it's written as repeats.
if I write sumitriptan fdt 50mg q4 r5, you need it endorsed regulation 24.
if I write sumitriptan fdt 50mg q24 r0, you cannot get it dispensed as a PBS prescription, but it doesn't need to be endorsed regulation 24.
(I'm just saying, the government doesn't need to get involved here, it's just you paying for services rendered.)
Replying to keyboardmama, but forgot to quote!
An authority script is one where the doctor has to get an authorisation number from Medicare before issuing the prescription.
Thanks for the explanation Jurahn.
I can vaguely remember my doctor offering me more hardcore options for migraine, but I was only having around one per 4-6 weeks back then, and touch wood they are reducing, as I haven't had one now for well over 6 months.
I hope I didn't speak too soon. Fingers crossed they will become a distant memory and not return, cos they are bloody awful, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.
That's if it's written as repeats.
if I write sumitriptan fdt 50mg q4 r5, you need it endorsed regulation 24.
if I write sumitriptan fdt 50mg q24 r0, you cannot get it dispensed as a PBS prescription, but it doesn't need to be endorsed regulation 24.
Thanks Hildy, good to know! I'll ask the GP about doing it that way next time I'm there.
I hope I didn't speak too soon. Fingers crossed they will become a distant memory and not return, cos they are bloody awful, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone
Fingers crossed for you too, keyboardmama – I hope they've gone for good and you never have to suffer one again. I've had them for 26 years, but unfortunately they're not showing any sign of b*ggering off any time soon!
Imigran FDT with authority: $21 for 4.
Imigran FDT without authority: $96 for 20.
Might have to try these again, I've been stabbing myself with the $72/pop imigran needles for a long time now.
On the 'other options' side, if Imigran FDT works for you, have you gents and ladies thought about trying Relpax, which is Eletriptan (Hydrobromide) and comes in 40mg and 80mg doses, 4 pack, or Maxalt, which comes in a wafer (melty tounge tablet), 2 per pack? Both can be cheaper than Imigran, where I live.
...I should add that since I've stopped working, I've pretty much stopped stabbing myself. Paying $75 to get rid of a migraine is only worth it for weddings, funerals, doctors' appointments and important business meetings, imo.
Was visiting family in Newcastle from Cairns for Easter.
Have a terrible cold – runny/blocked nose, itchy eyes, headaches, joint pain.
Last purchase of pseudoephedrine was 22/08/12. I know this from my credit card statement (very uncommon need to visit pharmacies.)
So I ask the old bird at the counter for Codral original.
With my old man there – she asks for my ID, so I hand it over (fully aware of & willing to abide by the regulations)
She then tells me I've been purchasing these regularly. With a stunned look on my face I stare her down. "How regulary?" I demand.
"Oh about once a month for an unknown number of months", she replies.
Now I'm pissed. "Which pharmacies, what dates?" I ask.
"System doesn't record that information" comes the reply.
"System says you can have these though."
"Here are the cold/flu pills, she smiles. "Have a nice day!, pay up at the front."
Surely through freedom of information I can get the history of pseudo purchases, send my dad in there, and threaten her with libelous untrue statements made?
System doesn't record that information" comes the reply.
"System says you can have these though."
"Here are the cold/flu pills, she smiles. "Have a nice day!, pay up at the front."
I don't understand?? Did you get the pseudo? Cos if you did she may have been pulling your chain.
Surely through freedom of information I can get the history of pseudo purchases, send my dad in there, and threaten her with libelous untrue statements made?
If you haven't bought any since August last year, then someone could have been using your name to get them.
Surely you could go to the police with that. If it's recorded on the system that youu've been buying them, when you havn't, then the only explanation is someone is using your identity, which is a crime.
They will soon find out wether she was telling the truth or not.
Saw a skinny unkept young man at the chemist asking for daytime flu tablets for his friend and handed over his friends license. The pharmacist and I laughed yet the pharmacist still gave him the box of pills.
Did you get the pseudo?
Yes, she hands me the box of day/night pills, tells me pay up front.
I was shocked to have this done in front of my dad.
someone could have been using your name to get them.
Or, she was just testing me out. Staff might have done this exact thing to interstate visitors before, and had them scrambling for the door.
I have been living in Korea this past year and went to the pharmacy to get some cold tabs today, well when i got home the 120mg pseudoephedrine listed on the pack caught my eye! 30 tabs as well haha. Wow you would have to get drilled for half an hour in AU to even get 30mg tabs.. if you were even able to.
Im happy that in AU we have registries to prevent doctor shopping etc but that should be it, if there is a registry then you should not be treated like a junky, they should check you out then hand over.
Wish there was a registry for sleeping pills in AU, i could not convince 7 sepseparate doctors last year that i just wanted a few sleeping pills to get a good nights sleep after going through a stressful period.
Btw 360mg of ephedrine and 375ml of scotch will knock and bad feelings from a cold on the head haha
I tend to go in every 3-6 months and pick up a pack of codril original, and then head to another chemist to get a pack of pseudo + paracetamol or ibuprofen, even if I'm not sick. That way my we always have some in the house. There's nothing worse than being really sick, and not being able to get it, or finding it out of stock.
It's such a silly rule, and if people are going to make meth, there's other ways than using pseudo.
meth, there's other ways than using pseudo.
?? What?
Using pseudo is by far the easiest method... it's so simple clean reaction that they use to teach it at pharmacy college to show a particular type of chemical reaction. They then stopped giving out the formula when making meth was becoming a problem...
I just picked some up from my local chemist – I told her I'm working long hours all week (which sucks with a cold) and she photocopied my ID and that was it.
I wasn't aware of any difference until I got the new formula stuff last time I had a cold, and it was like taking sugar pills – didn't seem to do a thing. I made sure to ask for the proper stuff this time.
Btw people should stop crying. Thank that it's not a Schedule 4 med. Btw the Korea example..
Korea is great. Love it. But... Imodium is a prescription med.. I needed some in Busan.. they offered me some old formula that Australia has gotten rid of ages ago because it doesn't work..
Well, I suppose you could always go to your local drug dealer – might be easier to get some Sudofed original off them than it is the Pharmacy. :-)
Sudofed PE is commonly refer to in my circles as the 'Placebo Edition'. I'm yet to find people who find it effective.
In all seriousness though – I don't believe I've ever been refused Sudafed (original) before. Asked questions – yes, but not refused.
Normally I end up having some in the cupboard that goes out of date. I keep those now with the intent of taking them to the pharmacy if I ever do run into trouble, and offer to give them the old ones as they've expired if they will sell me new.
I figure drug makers couldn't give a rats whether packets are expired or not for their products, and addicts are hardly going to have half a pack remaining long enough that it expires – so probably goes a little way to showing that I'm a legit user.
Btw people should stop crying. Thank that it's not a Schedule 4 med. Btw the Korea example..
Respectfully, you could use similar logic to say we shouldn't complain or demand a large number of basic civil rights. Or clean water.
You're right, it could be a lot worse, but poor health policies shouldn't be exempt from criticism because other jurisdictions have worse policies. If its a bad idea, its a bad idea.
Not just pseudoephedrine, unfortunately.
A year back I had whooping cough and the only thing that had any affect whatsoever on my cough was Rikodeine. I discovered this purely by accident, after I had already spent hundreds of dollars on cough medicine that did nothing by empty my wallet.
One chemist, after putting up with my complaining, offered me a bottle of Rikodeine and said it should help. I was utterly amazed. 10mL and I had my first few cough-free hours in months. I probably went through 4 bottles of the stuff, but in that time, I had plenty of arguments with pharmacists about selling it to me.
If there is a drug that works very effectively, such as pseudo or codeine, then they shouldn't withhold it from us just because there is the potential for abuse.
I was working in China and got the flu. Went to the pharmacy and everything was written in Chinese and the workers were no help.
I didn't want to buy random one in case it was fake – as in not pseudoephedrine. Ended up buying by brand name 'Bayer'. Paid AUD$3 for 24 tabs. Went back to the hotel opened the pack and read the instruction sheet written with ingredients in English to find it had correct pseudoephedrine 30mg.
Going to stock up next time considering how much of a price difference it is compared to $15 in Australia and feeling like a criminal everytime I get a cold.
If there is a drug that works very effectively, such as pseudo or codeine, then they shouldn't withhold it from us just because there is the potential for abuse.
But they do, and there's nothing we can do about it now. It will probably only get worse & more & more drugs will become harder to get. They like to think they can look after us better than we can ourselves. Plus it makes the pharmacist feel important.
I always keep a packet of Sudafed at home. Invariably, someone always gets a cold coming on, late at night or first thing in the morning. So it's handy to keep here to save a dash to the chemist.
I have been living in Korea this past year and went to the pharmacy to get some cold tabs today, well when i got home the 120mg pseudoephedrine listed on the pack caught my eye! 30 tabs as well haha. Wow you would have to get drilled for half an hour in AU to even get 30mg tabs..
Just be sure to declare any you bring back to Oz with you. I got some pseudoephedrine when I was in Germany because I had the plague (nose running like tap), and didn't use them all, so when I got back, I declared that (and lollies and everything else I could think of) and the customs guy asked to have a look – so I pulled the pack out and showed him about 12 tabs left of 24, and he was happy to let me keep them.
The guys making ice meth brain dissolving drugs out of the stuff are really nasty nasty people so I can understand the fuss.
I don't have any trouble getting the stuff here, but I do have to hand over my drivers licence. So I only get it from one single chemist – where they know me.
Went to get some today, lady asked for my id and started filling out my details was all going fine until the pharmacist caught wind and decided to come over and take a look, asked me what i was after , few questions then proceded to tell me she had "run out" for the weekend.
Do you think they have actually ran out or she just didn't want to sell me any?
Do you think they have actually ran out or she just didn't want to sell me any?
They didn't run out. For some reason she didn't like the look of you. Same thing happened to my brother and they only ended up giving him a nasal spray. Shock, horror, it did nothing.
They didn't run out. For some reason she didn't like the look of you. Same thing happened to my brother and they only ended up giving him a nasal spray. Shock, horror, it did nothing.
That is ludicrous...
Pharmacists, the new World Police.
I would make a complaint to the store owner, I bet they aren't happy losing sales...
Dan
I got grilled by a chemist for asking for Citric Acid crystals once yet you can buy it in the supermarket LOL. I'm assuming it can be used for making drugs or something, I just use them to clean my kettle.
When I was a codeine addict, I never got grilled. Mind you, I was smart enough to make a list of 50 local pharmacies within half an hour drive from me so not one of them ever got to know me!
They didn't run out. For some reason she didn't like the look of you. Same thing happened to my brother and they only ended up giving him a nasal spray. Shock, horror, it did nothing.
That really annoys me , a pharmacist withholding medicine doesn't seem right to me.
nasal spray. Shock, horror, it did nothing.
The nasal decongestant sprays are actually really effective for most peoples' blocked noses... far better than any of the oral PE stuff. They're just unfortunately limited to short-term use (a few days) only.
Chemist tried to sell me PE. I asked if I could bring it back for a refund when it didn't work. Point was heard. Got the normal stuff. Not fussed about licence as yes it shits me that criminals make my life harder but I also know it's not the chemist's personal fault a stupid rule exists.
The nasal decongestant sprays are actually really effective for most peoples' blocked noses... far better than any of the oral PE stuff. They're just unfortunately limited to short-term use (a few days) only.
Agreed, Otrivin is very good but the chemist told me when I had it two days on, one day off, two days on, and then no more for a long while. :'(
you can order pseudoephedrine online
http://www.pharmacydir
Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride 120 mg
I have horrible nasal congestion, ongoing for over 2 years. Bought recently sudafed PE, wasn't aware that's the formula been changed, just noticed, that it didn't do a damn thing. Expensive rubbish. Better off taking vitamin C than this crap.
Nasal decongestant sprays are very dangerous, can get very easily addicted
All nasal spray will damage the lining of the nose if using over long period of time.
Steroid sprays can lead to glaucoma.
you can order pseudoephedrine online
http://www.pharmacyd
Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride 120
Takes even more effort though because you need to go to a doc and get a prescription first. If you do that you may as well just get it at the pharmacy next to the doctors surgery.
People seem to want to take a lot of addictive stuff for a cold.
Because it works. I've had a bad cold for most of the last two weeks, and after a couple of nights of disturbing the peace with continuous coughing and other cold-related behaviour, went to the chemist for some cold & flu tablets.
Handed over the driver's licence, answered questions, waited while shop assistant entered data into pharmacy computer, waited while shop assistant consulted with head pharmacist, waited while shop assistant obtained keys for locked cupboard, and then, finally, the cold & flu tablets were handed over!
It's a cold get over it.
I wouldn't bother taking any medication for a slight case of the sniffles, but on the rare occasion when I catch a heavy cold, I have no hesitation taking a decongestant for a few days. The cold & flu tablets that contain pseudoephedrine work for me.
Ok ok. Maybe I'm a bit harsh. It's just that I've never taken anything for a cold. I'm 39yrs old a diabetic. Am I immune to "really bad" colds? I have my fluvax every year but it does nothing for a cold. Seems like people want some pretty addictive and strong drugs for a cold.
pseudephedrine is not addictive, I don't know what gave you that idea
No, but codeine is an addictive substance, and there's 6mg of codeine phosphate in each of the Codral Original cold and flu tablets, which may be why there's only a four-day supply in each pack.
Went in asking for cold and flu meds, got handed a generic with pseudo in it. Didn't ask specifically for it, didn't get ID checked. Maybe I just looked sick enough. But man that stuff works a treat.
there's 6mg of codeine phosphate in each of the Codral Original cold and flu tablets, which may be why there's only a four-day supply in each pack.
There's 9.5mg in the PE version, and you can get them in 48 packs.
It's a cold get over it.
If you want to be all stoic, that's cool, but some of us aren't interested in suffering for absolutely no reason. Add to that the need to maximise work productivity and I think taking a bit of pseudo is perfectly sensible.
I think people have more trouble if they are going into a pharmacist they usually never use. My pharmacist knows me by sight because I fill a couple of scripts there every month, so I never have a drama getting pseudo or codeine if I need some. Difficult though for people who only go to a pharmacy once a year when they are ill.
When the register came in, I was talking to my old pharmacist (in a tiny seaside town) and asked if it was really that big a deal, and he laughed and said you will never believe it, but it is the grannies that he has had to watch – age pensioners who were buying boxes of sudafed every single week and flogging them to the bikies at a good markup for a nice little pension boost.
I got finally a pack of sudafed with pseudoephedrine, 30 mg only though, but it works more or less. Had to go to 3 chemists!!!! two of them didn't keep it at all.
They took my ID details, next time maybe they'll ask for a passport!
Anyone know where to get 60 or 120 mg?
I found a link for
CHEMISTS' OWN SINUS RELIEF pseudoephedrine hydrochloride 60mg tablet lbister pack (reformulation)
http://www.as
but can't see it in any only store.
http://www.chemistsown.com.au found only that PE rubbish version.
A European online store sells ZYRTEC-D: Pseudoephedrine 120 mg for $ 5.00 / 14 tablets.
Do you guys know if it's possible to send it from overseas by mail if I show a prescription? or custom would confiscate it?
Went to get some today, lady asked for my id and started filling out my details was all going fine until the pharmacist caught wind and decided to come over and take a look, asked me what i was after , few questions then proceded to tell me she had "run out" for the weekend.
Do you think they have actually ran out or she just didn't want to sell me any?
That's exactly what the first chemist I went to told me. Few questions, than went at the back, and when she came out, she told me they've run out.
Maybe it's a standard bullshit lie.
I ended up getting some on Monday, got the 120mg 12 hour relief bloody $17 .. They actually didn't work for me , think its time to go see an ENT doctor :(
Went to China last month and had a terrible flu. Rocked up to the chemist and managed to get a pack of some American brand flu tablets with pseudo in them. Less than $6 AUD too. If only it was like that here.
y pharmacist knows me by sight because I fill a couple of scripts there every month, so I never have a drama getting pseudo or codeine if I need some.
I never had trouble getting codeine 12.8mg 30 packs in Perth. They ask a million questions which is a bit annoying but every pharmacist I went to handed it over to me...
No, but codeine is an addictive substance, and there's 6mg of codeine phosphate in each of the Codral Original cold and flu tablets, which may be why there's only a four-day supply in each pack.
You get much more Codeine in the Panadol Extra type (10mg in the ones in my 'medicine chest'), and there's not nearly as much brouhaha over those (although you do still have to show a driver's license).
I have only ever needed to show my driver's license once for Nurofen Plus & similar in all the pharmacies I went to regularly. About 30 chemists ;-)
It is penalising us all for the bad things a very small number people do with it.
Minority rules in this prick of a world....
The 0.0001% of the powerful rich rule the world and make the rules while the 99.9999% majority sit there and accept it like they cant do anything about it...
strange world....
If the majority acted together we could have practically anything we wanted in life and in the world...
39839836 Kore7811 writes...
Minority rules in this prick of a world....
The 0.0001% of the powerful rich rule the world and make the rules while the 99.9999% majority sit there and accept it like they cant do anything about it...
strange world....
If the majority acted together we could have practically anything we wanted in life and in the world...
yes, that's called revolution. I'm waiting to see that 0.0001 all hanged!
I ended up getting some on Monday, got the 120mg 12 hour relief bloody $17 ..
Where did you get 120 mg?
I checked with the chemist I usually go, and they keep 60mg for $12.00 / 12 tablets.
I called the chemist shop where I bought the other day that crap sudafed PE, asking specifically for decongestant
I asked them why they sold me something which I'm sure they know very well that doesn't work.. She told me that it works for many people and if it doesn't work for me it's unfortunate and if I want, I can call the company who makes it and hanged up!!! what a b...tch!!! liar!
I just check with customs and office of chemical safety if you could order it from overseas. The answer is NO. Controlled substance.
Even if you had prescription from doctor you wouldn't be allowed to import it.
Bastards! So much cheaper anywhere else in the world!
Where did you get 120 mg?
I checked with the chemist I usually go, and they keep 60mg for $12.00 / 12 tablets.
National Pharmacies
People seem to want to take a lot of addictive stuff for a cold. It's a cold get over it.
Pseudoephedrine isn't addictive.
And why don't you tell that to someone who has extremely congested sinuses and cannot breathe and thus cannot sleep. No sleep = no recovery.
Or better yet, tell that to someone who has extremely congested sinuses and is about to board a flight. I did that once. I couldn't pop my ears the whole way, and the flight was pure torture. Knowing then what I do now, I would have rather just forfeited the thousands of dollars for the flight and the holiday altogether.
But hey. It's just a cold. Get over it. Right?
All winter I've been struggling with a cold and extremely blocked sinuses to the stage that my eustachian tubes are unable to drain causing hearing loss. I've seen an ENT about the eustachian tube issue and have had surgery for it. The specialist told me whenever I get a cold I can continue expect some hearing loss due to the blocked sinuses. He told me Pseudoephedrine is a good way to clear the sinuses. As I've pretty much had a cold all winter I've been going to the pharmacy every few weeks to get cold and flu tablets containing pseudoephedrine. The pharmacist asks why I take them so often and I give my explanation as above and usually have no problem getting them.
Last time I asked for the tablets the pharmacist grabbed my license and starting asking question like what my name was, address etc (thing that are visible on my license that she had in her hand). She asked why I take them so often and after giving the reason the spent a good few minutes typing away at the computer that they use to enter license details. She did hand them over in the end despite being very suspicious. I am worried that she suspects I'm doing something dodgy with them and has written notes on my 'psuedoephedrine file' making it difficult for me to purchase in future.
I might go see the ENT again and see if he can write me a prescription.
I've seen an ENT about the eustachian tube issue and have had surgery for it. The specialist told me whenever I get a cold I can continue expect some hearing loss due to the blocked sinuses. He told me Pseudoephedrine is a good way to clear the sinuses.
Your ENT didn't want you to use nasal sprays instead of Pseudoephedrine?
My ENT pushing me to use Omnaris, an intranasal steroid spray.
I hate it, it can cause glaucoma and can stuff up the lining of your nose for good.
She did hand them over in the end despite being very suspicious. I am worried that she suspects I'm doing something dodgy with them and has written notes on my 'psuedoephedrine file' making it difficult for me to purchase in future.
Gosh, next time you'll get some, maybe the police will be waiting at your door.
What do they think, why do we need psuedoephedrine? Or do they really expect somebody to say: yeee I just gonna use it for some partying thing...
All nasal spray will damage the lining of the nose if using over long period of time.
Steroid sprays can lead to glaucoma.
Can also cause thrush?
http://www.aafa.org/d
Yes, this is just another example of Australia being a huge Nanny state and honest people suffering as a result. I find however that if your pharmacist knows you as a regular customer they don't treat you suspiciously when you ask for the only product that works (at least mine doesn’t despite some hiccups with new staff that didn’t know me). It’s a similiar deal when you ask for paracetamol products. The problem is that a lot of people don’t have regular pharmacists.
Geezz, I didn't know this. i am sure I have some Sudafed and other psudo containing drugs at home.
I don't like them personally.
You'll have the most success with asian owned pharmacies, they tend to give less of a shit when it comes to this stuff. All the bigger brand pharmacies tend to be very legendy.
my wife usually buys this for me in the city with no problems. Today though I went to 3 pharmacies for the hunt for some.
1st one said you need a prescription with it and they don't stock it anyway. I got the dirtiest look from the girl when I specified I want something that will knock me out at night.
2nd one said they don't stock it because of too many b&e's. He sympathised, saying the new one is next to useless. He recommended the 3rd chemist, which when I think about it now, was the only place I found it 5 years or so ago.
3rd one, just handed over my license.10 mins later o was out the door with a box in my hands. Combined with otrivin, its enough to get a half decent sleep.
It's it possible to get a small pack of pseudoephedrine over the counter in Victoria.
I have an issue with a congested ear +/- fluid behind the ear. I am flying at the end of the month, and its the only things that seems to clear it up effectively.
Ben .
I bought some the other night with no hassles at my local pharmacy.
Asked for Sudafed with psuedoephedrine in it and gave her my license and then she went up back, used the computer, fetched the drugs from the storage area and swapped them for my credit card...
And thats where it went down hill.... Their eftpos machine was broken, so i had to run down the road to the ATM and get some cash.
Then I exchanged the cash for my meds and was on my way. No fuss for me... Then again it is my local so probably more trusting.
I get really bad hayfever and the only stuff that really works for me is the original sudafed tablet.
I went to the chemist and ask for it but she gave me Sudafed PE. The tablet is huge lol.
Not what I was looking for but will give it a go.
Is the original sudafed only available through prescription?
Nope it should still be available OTC, but you'll need to provide ID, and only some chemists will stock it.
My local pharmacist said to me (and I quote) "Go to a shopping centre chemist, they're much more likely to stock it as they can't be ram-raided."
O.o
I get really bad hayfever and the only stuff that really works for me is the original sudafed tablet.
I went to the chemist and ask for it but she gave me Sudafed PE. The tablet is huge lol.
Not what I was looking for but will give it a go.
Is the original sudafed only available through prescription?
I recently had a very bad case of the flu, and went to a few pharmacies here in Sydney. None of them stocked Sudafed Original. They did however offer me Sudafed PE.
It seems that Sudafed Original is no longer available over the counter.
I refused the Sudafed PE because I find that phenelyphrine does not work at all for me. I ended up getting a prescription for Codral which contains pseudoephedrine, and it worked extremely well.
It seems that Sudafed Original is no longer available over the counter.
It was at the chemist today when I bought some (Victoria), well I was going to but went with the Amcal brand as it was cheaper. Still the same stuff, that Phenylephrine Hydrochloride crap on the shelves doesn't do a thing, it's as helpful as panadol with clearing congestion.
After a quick check, it appears that pseudoephedrine is classified as a schedule 3 drug (pharmacist only medicine) but not a schedule 4 (prescription medicine) in the following quantities.
PSEUDOEPHEDRINE (other than preparations for stimulant, appetite suppression or weight-control purposes) when supplied in a primary pack:
(a) in liquid preparations containing 800 mg or less of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (or its equivalent); or
(b) in other preparations containing 720 mg or less of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (or its equivalent).
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Det
Note: the weights refer to total pseudoephedrine contents per packet/container – not individual tablets, pills, etc.
EDIT: many chemists/pharmacies won't stock pseudoephedrine products because they become greater targets for theft as a result.
Another reason they might not stock it is due to the regulatory requirements (red tape) involved.
Project STOP is a decision making tool for pharmacists aimed at preventing the use of pseudoephedrine based products to manufacture methamphetamine. The system works by helping pharmacists to determine patients’ therapeutic needs http://projectstop.com/index.html (this might help to explain why pharmacists are reluctant or unable to sell pseudoephedrine products even when they stock them).
thanks for the useful info guys.
I will try the chemist in the shopping malls next time im up in Perth.
This Sudafed PE isnt working for me.
If they do stock it, make sure your not sick when you try to buy it.
You don't need much more of a reason than that to understand why you can't get it when you need it ;)
Up here in Cairns I have no problem getting it. Most chemists do stock it and they don't ask questions, just take the driving lic. for details.
Consider taking other medications.
Pseudoephedrine can have side effects.
Where it is taken for nasal congestion, other over the counter options exist.
Ask your chemist outright to suggestion options.
Others cost far less than the $30 monthly fees.
Pseudoephedrine can have side effects.
Just about anything that works for anything has side effects.
Here in Brisbane if have found that Terry White pharmacies are pretty good about selling you pseudoephedrine based cold tablets.
Ive had this same issue from Chemists wanting to restrict me in purchasing Ventolin
for my Asthma .
Wanted to buy 4 x and was told Sorry NO can only buy 2 !!
Its becoming unreasonable how they treat us and how they try to control us !!
I also suffer from Hayfever and struggle to breath properly through my nose .
While in Nepal was told by one on the trekers to put a little bit of tiger Balm in my nose ... I works .. opens the nasal passage and also reduces the severity of the HayFever .
Hope this helps
cheers Varg .
Pseudoephedrine can have side effects.
Yes, the most common being drowsiness and excitability (ironic that one drug can cause one of two completely opposite side effects).
Where it is taken for nasal congestion, other over the counter options exist.
Would you care to share these alternatives with us? (HINT: Phenylephrine is not an option, studies have shown that it is nowhere near as effective as Pseudo.)
The medications with psuedoephedrine can cost over $26 per month.
There are cheaper choices IF the person is able to use them.
A few years ago, my wife and I were in Italy .
Prior to this we had been on a cruiseship — and we got sick (as you do). We were both really "rotten" — my wife said to me "Let's go to a chemist and get "something". Waste of time , I said — because none of these things reduce the effects of a common cold. BUT — we went to this chemist in Rome — and with sign language indicated that we had heavy colds with much congestion — she gave us some pills. We took them – and almost instantly (well- within a couple of hours, we started to feel much better ) — BUT I have to admit that we were also feeling a little bit "woozy". Continued to take them – and after a couple of days felt definitely better — had never ever had this kind of response from any medications "bought at the chemist" before.
This had such an impact on us that , when we got home, I did a bit of Internet research and discovered that the product had pseudoephadrine in it.
A year layer we were in Germany — after another cruise — from which we also got sick again. Went to a German chemist, and with much sign language and gesticulation trying to tell them that we were "sick" , we got some German language pills – which also were "miraculous" . Further Internet research revealed that these also had pseudoephadrine in them.
But sadly, my own local chemist — who knows me — does not stock any such thing!!!
The medications with psuedoephedrine can cost over $26 per month.
I don't take them constantly – I only take them when I have a cold.
I might use two boxes of the course of a year, so about $30\year. It's worth it though.
The medications with psuedoephedrine can cost over $26 per month.
I only take it for a cold, so 4 or 5 days worth is fine. I'm sure it would say on the packet, or the pharmacist would advice you to see a doctor if you've been taking it for 1-2 weeks with no real benefits.
Also what cheaper options?
Well I went to my regular chemist and took a script to be filled. At the same time I showed them the Codral pills my wife bought me earlier in the day, and stated that they didn't work and could I have the original ones. They asked my symptoms, took my license, and gave me what I wanted.
And they worked, no more sniffles! The other stuff just doesn't work!
Anyway the packet probably has a GPS tracker or something.
KJ
Consider taking other medications.
I'm sure this has crossed peoples minds.
Pseudoephedrine can have side effects.
Yeah, like anything.
Where it is taken for nasal congestion, other over the counter options exist.
Not as well.
Ask your chemist outright to suggestion options.
Yeah and get a PE version which doesn't work at all.
Others cost far less than the $30 monthly fees.
I don't even know what this means.
I don't even know what this means.
I think they're implying that Pseudoephedrine based drugs cost $30\month, which is true if you're not getting them on a script. I've never known anyone to be paying full price and taking them for a month to be honest.
I got Codral Original today without any real issues from a Chemist Warehouse in a Westfield.
As long as you are assertive as to what you want it isn't too hard to get.
I simply rocked up to the prescriptions desk and asked for Codral Original whilst handing over my driver licence whilst I spoke.
Was asked when I last bought it and whether I had taken it before and a few minutes later I had it in my hands.
Pseudoephedrine isn't addictive.
I believe it is, but not as addictive as other drugs. I've heard that withdrawing from pseudoephedrine is similar to withdrawing from caffine, can be done fairly easily but expect some headaches along the way.
The reason why the sale is regulated is because pseudoephedrine is used in the manufacture of methamphetamine.
Wish it was always that easy. Some refuse outright. Codral original boxes can sell for up to $100 on the street. It's an easy way for certain people to make a quick dollar.
I'm just lucky I don't get sick that often, and have a few boxes at home from when they weren't so narc'y. Not sure how long the shelf life is meant to be... but they still work fine.
The same goes for the high potency panadeine (with the extra codeine). Wish you didn't need a script for that stuff :\. I wouldn't even have thought it would be that attractive to go through all that hassle to extract codeine, which is pretty average really... and if you do it wrong you die.
Ive had this same issue from Chemists wanting to restrict me in purchasing Ventolin
for my Asthma .
Wanted to buy 4 x and was told Sorry NO can only buy 2 !!
Wtf? What's even in Ventolin that would have them so concerned?
Its becoming unreasonable how they treat us and how they try to control us !!
It's ridiculous. Legalisation is the key... early 1900's/late 1800's and earlier, pretty much every drug was legal and sold over the counter. People need to get over this fear that junkies will swarm the streets. My bet is that you wouldn't get any change in the number of junkies (who can find the stuff easily anyway), but you would get far less crime.
I love Thailand for the ability to buy benzo's and certain opiates over the counter. They are ridiculously useful, and you really find a hard time getting them prescribed here.
I used to take a lot of Sudafed and never had any issue. I know they are getting stricter but I always found you get less hassle if you approach the counter with your drivers license clearly out.
When I was doing my pharmacology course the lecturer was telling me that phenylephrine (the new alternative) is basically inactivated by the time it passes through your liver into circulation as it has to pass through there on the way to your blood stream (the liver is the site of most enzymes to breakdown drugs usually by Cytochrome P-450).
So phenylephrine is essentially useless, unless you can get it into your blood stream another way to take out first pass metabolisms effects.
Damn druggies!
Damn druggies!
don't blame the druggies. blame the authorities on the ability to crack down on the druggies. it's like airport scanners. all they do is slow down honest people.
Damn druggies!
don't blame the druggies. blame the authorities on the ability to crack down on the druggies. it's like airport scanners. all they do is slow down honest people.
The only people that need to be blamed are the poorly educated public which result in this ridiculous failed 'war on drugs' in the first place. People should be free to put what they want into their bodies. Workplaces should still be free to discipline/fire employees based on drug test results. People who are so inclined are going to find this stuff anyway. What right does anyone else have to say what you can and can't do with your body? The whole thing is ridiculous.
The only people that need to be blamed are the poorly educated public which result in this ridiculous failed 'war on drugs' in the first place
It's more like a 'War on Snot'.
KJ
I got some Original over the counter this morning, no license or questions. But do have a heavy head cold though.
I needed the stronger tab to control the URTI, as I had to get six stiches removed from face. Probably end up looking like a pirate now with scar & big red hooter ;)
What right does anyone else have to say what you can and can't do with your body?
Yep, exactly. The answer to that is typically "But they'll commit crimes!" to which the answer is:
a) They're already committing crimes because of the fact drugs have been pushed into a black market and
b) We have laws for dealing with people who commit crimes. What you're asking for is to make something illegal as a pre-crime.
phenylephrine (the new alternative) is basically inactivated by the time it passes through your liver
Then does pseudoephedrine have any adverse effects on the liver?
What right does anyone else have to say what you can and can't do with your body?
I would agree with you except it is fairly obvious that methamphetamine use affects far more people than just the user
majority of people on it become paranoid and twitchy eventually after falling into daily use, and many of those become overtly psychotic, thinking some random person is the devil and their head must be amputated etc
not fun
and very not fun to have to deal with people like this (as any police, ambulance officers or staff in EDs around australia would easily attest to)
Got some sudafed original ~6 months ago from the local chemist without any ID required which surprised me. Went back to day to get some more (baby brought childcare diseases home :P) and this time they asked for my license, but still got it without any trouble after the girl spoke to the pharmacist.
I would agree with you except it is fairly obvious that methamphetamine use affects far more people than just the user
But the question I have is, do meth users have clear sinuses?
If so, for those of us with sinus issues, it might be worth trying to get some meth instead of pseudo, it is probably easier to get a hold of. :(
At least your local drug dealer isn't going to say "Hey, you had some of this drug two months ago, why do you need it again now?".
Giving pseduoephedrine without any form of ID is illegal. It's a requirement by the health department of Australia so we can help cops to crackdown those addicts. As far as giving out Original cold and flu is concerned- most of the pharmacies don't stock them and the ones who do are usually strict. I am a pharmacist, if anyone was to come to me and ask me for direct pseudo- I would definitely go through the list of questions. If I wasn't satisfied, I can refuse the supply of ANY drug. Having said that, I gotta have a valid reason as to why I am refusing.
In regards to Ventolin- it can be abused by athletes to improve their sports performance.
In regards to codeine based products- times aren't far when they would go on project stop too because of high amount of drug abuse. Recently, there was a artile published in the newspaper saying Painstop being abused my teens as it can give similar or perhaps better effects when combined with this other product, which I don't want to list. So, if we are strict and ask questions or change the therapy, if always for YOUR good! well, I can definitely assure from my side it is.
Giving pseduoephedrine without any form of ID is illegal. It's a requirement by the health department of Australia so we can help cops to crackdown those addicts.
As stated, it's not difficult, just present your ID and your away. Sprays etc may work for some, not others. I always ask for the pseudoephedrine. If OS you just need to present your passport usually.
Codral original from our local Chemist Warehouse yesterday.
No ID. No questions. Was actually offered it, didn't have to ask.
I did/do look like shit.
majority of people on it become paranoid and twitchy eventually after falling into daily use
i think you'll find this isn't the majority, though it does happen.
It's a requirement by the health department of Australia so we can help cops to crackdown those addicts
It's not to crackdown on addicts it's to crackdown on the makers of amphetamines, and even if it was the crackdown on addicts, cracking down on them isn't helping the situation.
Painstop being abused my teens as it can give similar or perhaps better effects when combined with this other product, which I don't want to list
I'm assuming phenergan, but either way, Codeine barely does anything compared to most opiates, I really hope it doesn't also get as restricted as sudafed is.
I am a pharmacist, if anyone was to come to me and ask me for direct pseudo- I would definitely go through the list of questions. If I wasn't satisfied, I can refuse the supply of ANY drug.
Be completely honest here: pseudoephedrine, for the vast majority of people with cold/flu, will drastically diminish their symptoms so that they can continue working, being productive, and earning money AND will be less likely to spread the virus onto others due less coughing/sneezing/mucous. My personal experience with pseudoephedrine is that it completely eliminates symptoms for a few hours at least. It is a must if you are flying and have a cold/flu.
On the other hand, phenylephrine is totally ineffective. There are several controlled, double-blind studies in reputable medical journals that bring phenylephrine's effectiveness into question. They weren't able to confirm its benefits over a placebo. My experience with phenlyephrine mirrors this. Selling a known-to-be-ineffective drug to people who are sick and suffering and spreading their germs to others is unquestionably morally wrong. I would even go so far as to say it's false advertising and perhaps even fraud.
If your customer is happy to produce ID, and you are satisfied the ID is theirs and genuine, then you should have no reason to turn them away. It's up to law enforcement officials to investigate. Presumably the ID you record goes into some database that a computer can analyse and find suspicious patterns. If not, then it should be implemented.
I'm just glad the pharmacy near my work is happy to supply pseudoephedrine/codeine to me whenever I need it, when I supply ID.
I was once denied Rikodeine (codeine-based cough suppressant) from a random pharmacy when I had whooping cough. The pharmacist insisted that I should go to a doctor and get anti-biotics. Well, guess what? I was already on my third course of anti-biotics and second course of prednisolone because it was being stubborn, and of the dozens of cough suppressants I tried (and hundreds of dollars I wasted), Rikodeine was the only thing that worked. 10mL and I would stop coughing completely and could actually sleep – you know, that thing that's good to do if you actually want to improve. Fortunately there was another pharmacist a few suburbs up that sold it to me without question.
Just record our ID and stop trying to be police.
Generally when I'm after Pseudo (or Codeine) I look like crap. And you know what? When I look like crap, I probably look like a druggie. It's the most insulting and embarrassing thing to be treated like a druggie and refused sale, because I don't look like a flashy businessman or some such.
Most Pseudo for Meth production is sourced in bulk from overseas from what I read, and this program of needing IDs checked is just silly. What serious Meth makers are going to buy tiny packs of Sudofed to make Meth?
And why should Pharmacists me given mild Police-like powers? They have no qualifications in the matter. If I have a cold or flu, I'm shaky and vague and probably look like a druggie. I'm not. I have a freaking cold and I'm sleepless and look crummy.
90% of the time when you refuse drugs, all that is being done is making the customer feel embarrassed, categorised, and spiteful. Considering Meth is probably cheaper on the streets (guessing) for an equivalent dose of Sudofed Original, why not just hand it over if they show their ID?
Unlikely they are adding to the drug trade. Seriously unlikely.
Also unlikely that you are being helpful with their health.
Walked into the Rockingham Shopping Center Chemist in Perth, Looked like a drug addict, hoodie beanie & scarf, told the guy i'm congested & am having trouble sleeping, and my nose is blocked, he suggested I get the Condral Original, went along with it, he chucked in some Difflam anesthetic lozenges, and gave me a 10% discount, cant say i've had a bad experience, but he did ask for I.D
Terry Whites in Centro, Lutwyche (Brisbane). Looked my usual scruffy self. Asked straightout for pseudoephedrine based cold and flu. He just asked for Photo Id and that was it, no problems.
I went my local pharmacy for some Codral this morning, can't figure out why its not working, then figure out she sold me the 'new' formula. AGAIN. Same happened last year. I am pissed off that I have now wasted $34 at the same pharmacy, I am going back there get to money back.
seriously the ACCC should get involved at it is illegal to sell a product making false claims. i will tell this too to the stupid woman.
What serious Meth makers are going to buy tiny packs of Sudofed to make Meth?
My father is a barrister. He was involved in a trial where bikes had got a car load of women, driven to every pharmacy in a country town, each got two packets of pseudo. Them proceeded to the next town.
The bikie got a large blister on his thumb from popping that many tablets out of the packets, apparently.
So yes, people buying small amounts then cooking them is a problem
My father is involved in the courts, and he's be involved in cases where bikies have gotten a car load of people and driving to small towns and each got a box or two of cold and flu tablets, one bloke actually had a blister on his thumb from popping all the pills out of the packets. So pharmacist based sourcing of PSE does/did happen. ol
Apparently I have nothing new to add to this thread
That's ridiculous. You can make lots of extremely dangerous substances out of readily available ingredients. I'm not even a chemist and I know at least a dozen dangerous things I can make from ingredients from the local supermarket.
The pharmacy should simply ask for ID, be reasonably confident the ID is genuine, and log it into a computer system. Then it should alert the pharmacist if more than 2 boxes have been purchased in the last 7 days, in which case they can refuse the sale without a prescription. And the prescription should only allow an additional 2 boxes.
Besides, I don't think it's possible to prevent the dealers from getting their hands on pseudo. If you exhaust all their options, they will probably just do an armed robbery of the factory or distribution point. The best tactic is probably education.
I got a flu 2 weeks ago and bought a packet of chemist brand pseudoephedrine cold and flu tablets, then successfully transferred the same flu to my wife within 3 days. Went back and bought another packet with my same ID for the wife.
I pretty much walked in and said "I need some cold and flu tablets, not the ones with the fake pseudoephedrine please", the lady giggled and handed them over after asking for ID.
I can understand why they ask for ID, but I can't understand why the pharmacies still always tend to recommend (most of the time) that you get the phenylephrine based product? Maybe it's cheaper to manufacture, so the sales reps push it hard... maybe they are just too lazy to check your ID and put it in the system?
There has to be a reason behind it other than stopping the pseudo tablets from getting into drug dealers hands. It works effectively, so why not sell as much of it as you can to sick people who want to minimise their symptoms so they can get on with their lives?
I am a pharmacist, if anyone was to come to me and ask me for direct pseudo- I would definitely go through the list of questions. If I wasn't satisfied, I can refuse the supply of ANY drug.
Typical response from a pharmacist on a power trip.....
Gotta admit the phenylephrine are useless too.
I said to the pharmacist, "who can I sue for selling me something that simply doesn't work?" and her response was... cautious agreeance. Off the record of course.
I don't mind the ID. I don't mind the pseudocheck database where they look up the last time you got some. I'm legit and that's okay by me.
As others have said, I do however object to the.... faux policing role. Follow the damn rules and shut up. Let cops be cops and you be pharmacist.
I've told my girlfriend about the difference between pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine, and I always send her to get me Cold and Flu tablets when I need them because I always get refused.
Anyway, today she is the one who has a bad cold, and she has an exam today. She went to get some tablets before her exam, and was apparently told that pseudoephedrine now requires a prescription.
Is this now the case? Or did they just blatantly lie to my girlfriend? They would have been able to tell that she was sick, as she was coughing her lungs up all night and went through 2 boxes of tissues.
because I always get refused.
She went to get some tablets before her exam, and was apparently told that pseudoephedrine now requires a prescription.
Dude, time to find a new chemist. Someone's feeding you complete BS.
In saying that, a pharmacist can refuse to sell it to you if they don't think your symptoms require it. For example if you say you have a sore throat, pseudo isn't necessarily going to help. If your nose is runny and you can't stop blowing it, it will be much more help.
Maybe you don't have the required symptoms therefore they don't want to sell it to you or your girlfriend? (either that or they for some reason determine that you look really dodgy, which technically has nothing to do with it, but people will and do judge others).
Does psuedo require a prescription if you've had "too much"?
This is the closest thing I could find that should answer your question.
Unless you need copious amounts of the drug and your doctor prescribes it for some special health condition, the answer is no.
Does psuedo require a prescription if you've had "too much"?
Sort of.
"It is illegal for a pharmacist (including a member of the staff) to supply a Schedule 3 substance or any other scheduled substance for therapeutic use in a quantity or for a purpose not in accordance with the recognised therapeutic standard of what is appropriate in the circumstances."
http://www.health.nsw.gov.au