Hey guys, i'm currently bout to start my second year of my eng/com double degree (at UWA) and i'm having trouble deciding what majors to pursue.. I know i want to do something either in the electronic/IT industry or banking and finance. So i guess the question is which commerce majors would give me the greatest amount of career options? The options I have come up with are:
1. Quantitative Finance (single major)
2. Investment/Corporate Finance AND Economics (double major)
3. Investment/Corporate Finance AND Accounting (double major)
I've read somewhere that it's better to do an engineering degree in one of the broader disciplines (e.g. electrical, mechanical, civil) rather than one one of the more specialised disciplines (e.g. computer engineering etc). Is this true?? Would it be possible for an electrical engineering graduate to pursue a career in IT?
Would greatly appreciate any advice. (especially from ppl that have completed the same double degree)
I'd say this one:
3. Investment/Corporate Finance AND Accounting (double major)
Accounting is still the most widely recognised business degree in Australia and it is the only commerce major within your choices which can lead to an established business qualification (CA, CPA etc). The downside is that many people find accounting boring.
Option 1 is very interesting but realistically, there are very few jobs in Australia in "quantitative finance". You'd need to consider a move overseas. Alternatively, you could consider becoming an actuary if you do Option 1 but this would require further study and probably a move to Sydney if you want a long-term career.
Can't comment on your engineering options.
Accounting is still the most widely recognised business degree in Australia
The downside is that many people find accounting boring.
I agree with Comrade, This double degree is probably the most relavant in combination to your degree but yes accounting is much more boring than say doing the other double degree
2. Investment/Corporate Finance AND Economics (double major)
which I would recommend you do, but the choice is still yours. Quantitative finance is very mathematical, so doing the one of the other 2 choices would diversify your degree more.
I've read somewhere that it's better to do an engineering degree in one of the broader disciplines (e.g. electrical, mechanical, civil)
Well I heard that a mechanical engineer can do electrical and so on. So if you are not really sure which type of engineering you want you should go with something broader (more job opportunites actually) but if you know you only want to do software engineering and jobs related to that you should pursue that discipline.
I'm looking at switching into Eng (or an Eng combined degree) at UWA myself, so have been looking into this stuff a bit lately. Here are a couple of points to consider:
(1) You can view UWA's Engineering study guides here:
http://www.ecm.uwa.edu.au/students/study-guides
As you can see, the Computer Engineering programme is very similar to the Electrical Engineering one, which apparently leads many to favour the latter due to its broader career opportunities. The Software Engineering programme is significantly different, and may be of interest since you sound keen on a career in IT specifically. (If you were to choose EE, you could pick up some Comp Sci units as electives in both the Eng and Comm sides of your degree, if you wanted to add some more software/programming into the mix.)
(2) You aren't limited to a single Commerce major if you do Quant Finance. It does have a large number of required units, but these include Maths units that you do as part of your Engineering degree anyway, and you can use your Finance options to satisfy the requirements of one (or maybe even both) of the other Finance majors.
You don't need to choose any streams/majors in first year, so you will have plenty of time to get a feel for what you like and seek advice from those in the know. (Not that it's a bad thing to be thinking about this sort of stuff in advance. :) Just letting you know that it's all fairly flexible.)
Thanks guys, yeah i do found accounting rather boring, and would much prefer economics. Might just suck it up and do the major tho, when you guys speak of accounting, i'm assuming you're referring to financial accounting right? Another issue i have with doing accounting is that with the finance/accounting major, i wont' be able to complete enough units to be qualified as a CA. Am i able to become a CA even if i don't complete the necessary units at uni?
Also, would any of the engineering majors go better with a career with finance? I was thinking of doing a software engineering so i would be able to go into financial IT. Would i be able to do the same thing with an electrical/electronic eng degree??
Hey Shion,
Yeah I've actually had a look at that study guide and am pretty interested in software engineering.
If you were to choose EE, you could pick up some Comp Sci units as electives in both the Eng and Comm sides of your degree, if you wanted to add some more software/programming into the mix.
If you have a look at the study guides for a double degree in eng/commerce, you'd realise that most of the usual options for a straight eng degree are all gone. You won't be able to add many (if any) comp sci units into your degree.
So, what i'm asking is that if i pursue EE, is it possible for me to go into IT? (hence, keeping my options open.)
If you have a look at the study guides for a double degree in eng/commerce, you'd realise that most of the usual options for a straight eng degree are all gone. You won't be able to add many (if any) comp sci units into your degree.
Oops, my bad. I had been thinking of CITS1200 and CITS1210, but you're right, there isn't room for those in the EE programme when doing it as a combined degree. You are able to do Comp Sci units as Commerce electives, but not many, as you say (depending on which Commerce major/s you want to do). That said, the Comp Eng programme only includes a small number of those anyway, so it wouldn't take many to make the EE programme roughly comparable, which is what I was getting at.
So, what i'm asking is that if i pursue EE, is it possible for me to go into IT? (hence, keeping my options open.)
I'm not knowledgeable enough to answer that one, but it has been asked here before, and the general answer seems to be that it's easier to move from EE to IT than from IT to EE. :) But yeah, hopefully someone more experienced will chime in with more detail.
I've just finished my second year of an eng/comm course at UWA. I am doing corporate finance and financial accounting for the commerce side. From what I have heard and read, if you want a job in quantitative finance you'll probably have to go to the eastern states (the sub dean said this at one of the information sessions). Additionally a knowledge of accounting is integral to a knowledge of finance. If you did do quant you would still have a fair amount of option units left.
I have completed the second year financial accounting and corporate finance core units (acct2201, acct2202, fina2221, fina2222) and found them quite easy... though not everyone else did. If you can't do well in fina2221 then give up on finance (I assume you are doing this unit in 2010s1).
You have to do 3 years work experience to get the CPA/CA qualification, it isn't something from the university. If you decide later on you want to do this then you could take the units externally or in some other format if you cannot fit them into your current study plan. Last time I checked I thought you could do corporate finance and financial accounting and also have the required units do one of CPA or CA, though this was a while ago.
If you are doing IT then a knowledge of management accounting or accounting information systems might be useful, though I haven't looked into these majors and would probably kill myself if I did do them.
I've just completed my engineering component of my Eng/Comm double degree at UWA and have all of 2 more units left for my commerce degree.
I am majoring in Civil Engineering, and Corporate Finance/Financial Accounting.
There is a very specific list of units you will need to do in regards to CPA qualifications. The way it was structured, I don't believe it's possible for engineering double degrees to obtain a CA qualification without additional study in commerce.
It is not easy to choose your electives, so I'll detail what I've done and hopefully shed some light into what you'll need. In effect, you need to do all the core units of both financial accounting and corporate finance as per UWA rules. Your electives must cover CPA requirements, which requires you to choose Accounting Information Systems (URGH!), Intro to Law and Company Law, which are generally outside your FinAcct or CorpFin requirements. You may get an exemption from CPA for auditing and/or tax. When I did the units, Corporate Accounting was 1 unit; I believe it is now split into two units. I'm not sure whether you will need BOTH corporate accounting units for the CPA requirement. If so, you will have to take up both auditing and tax with CPA. Otherwise, if only corporate accounting 1 is required, take up either auditing or tax at UWA and the other with CPA. I did however do the two management accounting units, not sure if they are requirements.
Again, I'm not too sure on the rules regarding CA qualifications, but I believe their pre-requisite list is more substantial than the CPA one so it is considerably more difficult without overloading or staying back more semesters.
If in doubt, ask the people at the commerce office, career advisors and unit coordinators.
I just checked the requirements for CA and CPA, you can do either one but not both if you are doing a Financial Accounting/Corparate Finance degree (assuming your degree allows for 15 commerce units like mine does).
There is no longer a requirement to do acct2203 which there was in previous years (however we still have to do acct1112). The options for corporate finance are covered by your financial accounting units as well as those required by CA. To do the CA required units you do the required core units (stat1520 is replaced by math1020 so that isn't counted as one of the 15 commerce units you do), then acct3331, laws1104, acct3322 and laws3301 which comes to 15 units.
If you want to do CPA you will have to do tax or auditing externally so that you can do acct2242.
Have a look on webct for the professional accounting requirements, or send an email to Michael Sutherland to check if the units you have chosen are suitable.
What you guys think of a finance/quant economics double major? Does anyone know what quantitative economics is about. From the study guide, it seems that its pretty similar to a standard economics degree.
Also what are the main differences between the 3 different finance majors? Would it be beneficial to do quant and investment finance majors or even all 3 finance majors?
quantitative economics
I get the impression it's focuses on the mathematical sides of economics which is really what economics is about. A lot of uni's don't really use mathematical rigour when teaching economics (unless you're in your later year/advanced economics courses) which essentially makes it easy and a full of fluff.
Quantitative finance – brace yourself to do endless statistics, regressions, stochastic modeling, ito calculus and all that nitty gritty stuff. I never touched it because my maths was never my strength.
Corp finance – a lot more theoretical – you study how a firm builds its capital (debt/equity), what should happen in a perfect world, valuations of mergers and acquisions and investment/risk theory.
To get an idea of what major is involved with, open up the course outlines for each unit and skim through the syllabus.
Firstly, I apologise for stating the obvious earlier by pointing you to those study guides. I've only just realised that you've already completed your first year. :)
What you guys think of a finance/quant economics double major? Does anyone know what quantitative economics is about. From the study guide, it seems that its pretty similar to a standard economics degree.
I've been majoring in Quant Econs, along with standard Econs, as part of my Science/Economics double degree. I've just completed my second year, so have done the two theory + two math units common to both majors.
These two Wikipedia articles are a decent starting point to learn what it's about:
http://en.wikipedia.or
http:/
But I'm not sure how valuable you'll find the quantitative units if you're also doing Eng and/or Quant Finance. As Jas0nt has pointed out, they go into greater mathematical depth than the main theory units, but my impression is that they're not nearly as rigorous as the maths in the other courses you're looking at.
The second year units focus mainly on maths/stats theory, and I found them quite easy despite my minimal maths background. Perhaps the third year units, which I gather are more about economic applications of the theory, would be more interesting/useful. In any case, if you are keen on economics, it seems worthwhile to have a good grasp on the mathematical side of it, which a lot of students seem to struggle with.
Have you done ECON1101 and/or ECON1102 in your first year? If so, how did you like them?
By the way, I don't think it's possible to squeeze both Quant Finance and Quant Econs into the Commerce component of the Eng double-degree?
Quantitative Finance
Do this! There's a lecturer at UWA that gives out bottles of wine for particularly bad, but well reasoned answers. He advises against drinking them during class.
Am i able to become a CA even if i don't complete the necessary units at uni?
Yes, you have to do more exams though. I only know that for sure for CPA, but I assume it's the same for both.
Possible advantages to investment/corporate finances, and economics are that they assess very differently to engineering, which gives you a bit of a break. This includes timing, frequency and type of assessments
On a marginally related note, do people consider it advantageous to have multiple majors. Clearly there is the advantage for something like Economics/Acct, both have pathways towards obvious professions, but Finance/Acct have such huge existing overlap.
I'm trying to determine if I should pull up a second major, or just use my remaining three units for more interesting electives (which may have realistic utility, it's just not as obvious to employers)
Not really. They are totally different.
I think he meant overlap with respect to jobs not the actual content. Finance and accounting knowledge go very well hand in hand whether you work in a finance or accounting focused role.
Better to do electrical/electronic or mechanical/civil major, finance/accounting for commerce. Dont do computer engineering. In the job market, electrical/electronic has more potential to get into the oil/gas/mining industry as opposed to IT. Its harder to get a good IT job in WA compared to the resources.
Even if you wanted to get into the banking industry, i find electronic eng. holds more value than IT.
In terms of Commerce I can tell you the following:
Accounting – Best for jobs. Generally the pay is decent but not exceptional. No research potential – straight into work.
Finance – Much more competitive but jobs are there. Lots of research potential and the pay has no real ceiling.
Economics – Much fewer jobs. The most research potential out of them all and again, the pay can be quite good. Lots of public sector positions.
Marketing/Management – I would do Marketing more than Management but you really need to supplement this with another major/degree. On it's own, it's not that great and you're better off doing a dedicated marketing course.
Even if you wanted to get into the banking industry, i find electronic eng. holds more value than IT.
How so? I think i'll probably do electronic eng, but i can't seem to see how it might be applicable in the banking industry.
Finance – Much more competitive but jobs are there. Lots of research potential and the pay has no real ceiling.
Economics – Much fewer jobs. The most research potential out of them all and again, the pay can be quite good. Lots of public sector positions.
I do these both and I agree with your sentiments. You can work for a university if you like economics research, there is just so much of it out there.
Luckily I live in Canberra so public service jobs are aplenty.
Hi guys sorry to bump an old thread but i thouight it would be better just to tag in on the end.
Im looking at doing the double with a major in mining and for the commerce side i dont really have much of an idea, i was thinking finance more than likely. Is this a good option or not really, its more a of an add on for my eng degree, as i see/have seen many engineers go into this business/management side.
I am currently not doing eco's at school for HSC is this an error or is there not much of a requirement. In the UNSW booklet there wasnt if any much of a mention about this for recommended knowledge.
One last thing im looking at doing this at UNSW due to their superior eng degree from what i hear, is their commerce degree any good in terms of well respected etc
Any advice appreciated greatly thanks
Pat
Is econometrics available to you? Or can you do that through the Economics major?
It's always good good to have the Acc/Fin combo but it really comes down to your interests. I wouldn't worry too much regarding the engineering discipline, probably best to go with the one you like best, BUT I have heard of Computer Systems Engineering students complaining that most companies seem to prefer Electrical and Computer Systems Engineering students over them!
With engineering, it's tough to force yourself through the degree if you're not keen on the discipline. In Commerce/Business, I reckon you can somehow get through the degree even if you hate part of it!
Umm no econometrics isnt available to me through the bachelor of commerce. At UNSW the following as majors are available
* Accounting
* Actuarial Studies
* Business Economics
* Business Strategy and Economic Management
* Business Statistics
* Business Law*
* Economic History
* Finance
* Financial Economics
* Human Resource Management
* Information Systems
* International Business
* Management
* Marketing
* Modern Languages*
* Taxation
I really have no idea about commerce/eco's so im sort of diving in the deep end but anyway.
Thanks for the advice, appreciated
BTW 1000th post!!
It's always good good to have the Acc/Fin combo but it really comes down to your interests.
can you fit in acc/fin double whilst doing double degree?
i finished my com/eng last year, did finance major and 1 acc subject. there was no way i could have fit both majors in.
can you fit in acc/fin double whilst doing double degree
Im not sure if thats possible, just by looking at the little booklet it doesnt appear so....
Im not sure if thats possible, just by looking at the little booklet it doesnt appear so....
i'm quite certain you cannot.
i was allocated a maximum of 5 3rd year subjects and you need 3-4 to complete each major.
Any advice appreciated greatly thanks
My advice is:
Don't bother with the double degree.
No one is interested in hiring a gradate with zero real-world experience into a position with serious decision making power or real spending power no matter how good your academic credentials are.
Use the time (whether that comes in the form of another year+ at uni or a more intense workload during the normal 4 year period) to gain actual work experience. Graduate as soon as you can and get into the workforce. Every year of on the job experience is worth multiples of the whole 4 years you spend at uni.
Spend 5-10 years in the workforce and then maybe think about doing an MBA or something (which typically advises that you only get the most out of it once you have a number of years experience under your belt to make sense of what you learn).
The Fat Controller.
You raise a valid point, although i plan to go into the engirneering side of this degree first of all, to gain real world experience moving into a finance/management side later. Nonetheless i appreciate the advice and will take into consideration thanks