Whirlpool

What would be the best thing to do if it was brought to your attention that your IP (from which you derive your living) was available on a torrent site, free to all ?

Is there any way for an individual to in the least hinder the distribution of the file ?

Odorono writes...

that your IP ... was available on a torrent site

what do you mean? posted for others to use as in your running a hacked PC or as in it is sharing data you do not want it to be?

Think he is talking about Intellectual Property. (thats how i read it) - and the answer is no in my opinion..if you could there would be a lot of software companies doing it.

Odorono writes...

Is there any way for an individual to in the least hinder the distribution of the file ?

Not really.

That's what you get for running P2P apps on the company's puter.

If you're not running a client then your file won't be available.

Otherwise you run a firewall.

Me suspects you're not being entirely honest with your post.

I think the OP needs to be a little more specific as there has already been two different understandings of it.

if the IP address of the server was used, then they have a problem with security.

if it is some software they wrote then a customer or employee is not being honest.

in the second case not much can be done expect write software that has to call home or similar so will not run without your server's approval. if it is sofware sold to the customer, you are in a bind. if it is software they should not have, you are still in a bind.

the onyl thing you can do is get the list of IP addresses for australian users and backtrack them to a ISP, but not sure if any of them will listen to you. the ones outside of australia they will just proberly snob you off unless you are paying a legal mob to do the work, but then it is no assurace you will get anywhere

Just to correct/inform a few of the posters, by IP i meant Intellectual Property.

The IP has never been distributed in soft form only on paper through snail mail to customers that pay a fee.

It would appear that the paper version at some point has been scanned and made available on the net via BT tracking sites (most definetly not by us)....

Hope this makes everything more clear...

Odorono writes...

Hope this makes everything more clear...

it doesn, it also makes it harder to do anything about as I see it. One of your customers is not being nice.

only way I can see is for future ones is place a emblem or suck on that does not scan well or a document number that is unique to the customer (not just a customer number as then it can be edited out by the offending person).

as to the current situation, I've no idea as you would not even have a ISP for the person so checking for the ISPs of the seeders will not help in any way to narrow down the source.

only thing I can think of to slow the file down from spreading is to d/l the file your self multiple times from as many IP's as possible, but do not share it back. it will slow the swarm, espically of there is only a small number of people interested in it. It might put some people off, but the ones that have it, unless you know where the files come back to (say they send the paperwork somewhere), then you are butting heads with the old "I'll give you a copy" approach amoung friends, just in this case there are many many friends.

IP means that in business, when you're on the internerd talking P2P, IP is completely different.

Yes, one of your customers (or competitors) is undermining you. You may not but probably will have a fair bit of work on your hands to stop it.
If it's a popular (generic) product, likely to be shared by a lot of people you've already lost. If it's on P2P, every day it's spreading like a virus, & that's your negative income out of control.
First quick thing, see if there are any comments on the torrent file, a lot of people like to advertise their exploits.
Get onto the Tracker & have it pulled, & see if they will reveal the IP (Internet Protocol) address of original seed. Most likely you will need legal action for this & obviously prosecution.

edit; sorry for misunderstanding, originally sounded like 16 year old back-pedalling out of something he shoudna done. ;)

as for "There is no GOD" - Man made god :p

Odorono writes...

Is there any way for an individual to in the least hinder the distribution of the file ?

Not exactly hinder, but assuming the IP is a regular publication such as a newsletter, preemp the next issue's release on BT by releasing a fake copy that threatens legal action, and warns that IP (addresses) will be noted etc. The legal threat and the experience of downloading a fake could have some effect.

karldoh writes...

The legal threat and the experience of downloading a fake could have some effect.

I am sure that will work. How can he prosecute? The legal costs involved are monstrous.

omano-jaku writes...

If it's on P2P, every day it's spreading like a virus

Then there is DHT to to worry about. OP you could imbed some code into your stuff that identifies each person who has a legitimate copy, then if one of "receivees" puts it on the net you then can then find out who the culprit is.

which torrent site, out of curiosty?

Umm thats not good i like the below idea

Muad'Dib writes...

Then there is DHT to to worry about. OP you could imbed some code into your stuff that identifies each person who has a legitimate copy, then if one of "receivees" puts it on the net you then can then find out who the culprit is.

A Quick google found an interesting article on using Azerus logs to identify hosts uploading/downloading a torrent.

blogs.ittoolbox.com/secu...rrent-tools-9399

I only skimmed over it, but it sounds like it'd be fairly easy to do; just download and seed the torrent containing your IP with all the logging turned on in Azerus, keep it up for a while gathering some logs, then go through them and identify some of the hosts that are sharing and downloading the file.

Your next step would be to find some which are Australian, then decide weather you want to go with Legal action, or with simple letters to the ISP's (which don't do much more than get a warning email sent to the end users)

You could probably just narrow it down to a couple of hosts that are seeding the file for reasonable lengths of time, it wouldn't be a huge jump to assume that one of them might be the ones who scanned and uploaded your IP.

I'd recommend looking for a law firm with experience in the online copyright stuff and getting some further advice, but I would also recommend you start gathering evidence using one of the techniques mentioned in that link right away (before the trail goes cold so to speak)

Don't bother trying to ask any ISP for the personal details of anyone sharing your IP, they're legally obligated to protect the privacy of their customers, but if you pursue the matter through the courts you can subpoena the information.

Good luck!

Probably your most practical course of action is once you identify the culprit, obviously you take him of your list to stop future bleeding, and cut your losses.

If your product is valuable, enquire with your insurance if you can claim loss of income, & then the insurance company might want their money back from him, saving you a lot of grief.

Well some torrent sites have a policy.

if the site receives a demand from a copyright holder that it should take content down, it does so under its DMCA obligations and there is no further action.

Check the site that is hosting the torrent.

Odorono writes...

The IP has never been distributed in soft form only on paper through snail mail to customers that pay a fee

Who gets intellectual property through snail mail any more anyway?

Are you selling rocket designs or something?

Do you work for a research agency?

Are you an author for readers digest or something?

Heh, sorry, it makes me laugh to think of all the possible things that you could be trying to sell/scam through snail mail.

Odorono writes...

What would be the best thing to do if it was brought to your attention that your IP (from which you derive your living) was available on a torrent site, free to all ?

Start thinking about how to turn those people into customers. Don't just assume that this is a bad thing - it may not be. It proves that your content is good (because people aren't going to waste their own time downloading it otherwise), and that proves that it is worth money. Do your research, have sales been affected? Why is it easier for people to download the electronic copy? It isn't always about it being free (some people are never going to pay - but they will never be your customers, so it isn't a lost sale), is it more convenient, etc. The bottom line is after all what really matters.

There is some data to suggest that having electronic versions of your content available freely actually encourages purchases. Look at the people who have used this model successfully and see if there might be an opportunity to use this in your own situation.

I'll say this again, don't just assume that this is a bad thing. This might be a business builder for you, however anti-intuitive that initially seems.

Is there any way for an individual to in the least hinder the distribution of the file ?

Yes and no. There are technical ways to make it more difficult to distribute files, but it's a pointless exercise - there will always be people who will defeat any barrier.

The other option is litigation, which is costly and time consuming (and, it could be argued, ineffective). You wouldn't be posting here if this were a viable option for you.

Ultimately, you must adapt to filesharing. It isn't going to go away and you aren't going to be able to stop it.

Odorono writes...

What would be the best thing to do if it was brought to your attention that your IP (from which you derive your living) was available on a torrent site, free to all ?

Stuart Anderson gave some excellent advice and I agree with his post.

I would still seek legal advice though, especially if the IP is central to your business. Legal advice doesn't always have to be about litigation (i.e. going to Court or suing someone), most Commercial Law firms will offer more general business advice in relation to matters such as IP and it doesn't have to be extremely expensive.

For example, a lawyer may be able to advise you on a more appropriate licencing/usage agreement between you and your clients which will highlight what they can and can't do with the IP. Your clients may not even know what they are doing is wrong (although I imagine they probably do).

Legal advice is exactly the same as getting your car serviced. Neither of them are cheap or costs that you want to pay, but if you leave either of them it can end up getting a lot more expensive if something goes wrong down the track.

Anyway that's just my 2c.

+1

I agree, just not go ahead and prosecute. By efficiently making them download a warning, I guess it grabs their attention.

... but you see, the person who posted how to get peoples' host information through seeding/leeching, if it was that easy, wouldn't the MPAA do it already?

:S

Not that they'd bother with every single seeder, but...

... what Muad'Dib said is very true, is it really worth going for legal action for what's been stolen and circulated?

If it's printed on paper and you're not distributing to a whole lot of people, then maybe just copy and paste the document into itself, creating a lot of page numbers. Create a subtle number on the bottom corner or something, something inconspicuous (I bet you can come up with something with your IP :D) and you can track down the customer then.

I remember someone did it a long time ago with his software; programmed a different code into each copy, and when it was leaked- name and shame time.

Good luck with it though, it sucks when your stuff gets stolen, and I hope you find out who distributed it.

:D

Odorono. I agree with Stuart Anderson. You need to make the most of the opportunity. I am guessing that your IP is art work or something. (If it was a design then it would still be copyrighted and you could take direct legal action against anyone using it right?).
Firstly, I would join the site hosting the torrent and post the uploader a message asking him to not upload any more of your files as it's theft (maybe you could also threaten him with legal action but I usually find being reasonable and nice goes much further than most people assume). Secondly you could post a comment asking people to either a) not download it because it's stolen, b) set up a pay pal account and ask downloaders to make a donation because it's stolen, c) suggest to downloaders that if they like the content maybe they could come to you and buy an original – free advertising! While your at it, set up an internet site to market your IP through and take orders over the web – you may find this is the best thing that has happened to your business, with a bit of luck. Make the most of it! Good Luck.

Speaking from personal experience I'd say...it depends on the nature of the material.

To start with, anything of yours that is already on the net will never be able to be removed from it. Period. Accept this quickly and move on to planning your next course of action.

Next, sit down and have a long, hard think about how you could turn the situation around to your advantage. If you're working on your own, grab a coffee and go for a walk while you think about it.

If you're working with other people, say, in a corporate environment, get everyone in a room together and talk it through. Designate a few people to play Devil's Advocate and get them to challenge everyone else and justify their reasons for wanting to keep your IP secret.

Having accepted that you will not be able to take down anything that has already been leaked, you (and maybe your team) are faced with two questions:

1) How do you take advantage of previously leaked info.
2) How will you deal with future leaks of info.

An example of how to deal with previous leaks might be to contact the torrent sites where your IP is indexed and tell them that you won't give them any problems provided that they display it prominently as "featured content". Mininova.org for example will be more than happy to plug a legitimate torrent via their "Featured Torrents" program. Why not take the existing pirate torrent and legitimize it by taking control and adding your own comments/links/marketing material?

(See: http://www.mininova.org/distribution)

Dealing with future leaks (and there will be future leaks) is a bit different, but the same principal applies.

Is your content time-sensitive (e.g. stocks and shares newsletter) or time-static (e.g. an album of your music)?

If it's time sensitive, give away some "teaser" info for free to as many people as you can (via torrent?) with the "hook" that all the info is available quickly and easily to paying subscribers. To take the share market newsletter as an example, give people 3 free "picks of the week" but paying subscribers get 10 stock picks and detailed analysis of the companies involved.

You might also like to throw in some FUD to the free content and say "We have become aware that some people have been distributing modified copies of our full report, possibly as part of a pump 'n' dump scam. You will always be able to find our real report at www.yoursite.com."

If your content is time static, why not sell it over the web and use the leaked info as a marketing tool. Taking the music album as an example, offer a high quality version for download from your site on a pay-what-you-can basis (see: Nine Inch Nails distribution strategy) and run a special promo to convert pirates into customers. E.g.:

"Pirates: upload the torrent file you used to obtain our album to our site and once we validate the hash, we'll give you a 40% discount on the sale price of the album or $10 off the price of a ticket to our latest concert tour (Playing: Sydney, 19th June @ Metro Theatre, Brisbane, 24th June @...etc)."

Again, it all depends on what your content is but "damage" from piracy" is in the eye of the beholder – you can either take advantage of it or you can follow the recording industry and whine about something you'll never be able to change.

(Disclaimer: I run a nice little business on the side advising on this kind of stuff and distribute a lot of my own work for free as well).

- See above post for great strategic marketing moves from the leaked IP, there is a lot the music / film industries don't take advantage of ...

As for this particular file:

- Download the file a couple times with logging on ...

- Download it a third time, but this time alter parts of the file, and adjust the MD5 in the .torrent for the manipulation ...

- Once the MD5 and files are altered, anybody else downloading them from your PC will have corrupt copies, and you will have logs ...

- Leave your connection going, and eventually you will be the only seeder (and therefor the only supplier of the "fake" file) ...

Good luck,
Tek
PS. we have had to do similar things for clients in the past