Whirlpool

They're valid, being assigned by the new BRAS, bras6.adl1, and unfortunately, just like the 122 addresses were initially, may be being blocked by some websites for the time being.

Related service outage notice here:

www.adam.com.au/outages_...-detail-1495.php

Bogon filters?

slaythenet writes...

Bogon filters?

Could be. I'm hoping it's a routing announcement problem, because they're usually a lot easier to fix.

« Mark R Smith » writes...

and unfortunately, just like the 122 addresses were initially, may be being blocked by some websites for the time being.

Similar to last time, do you require/want users to inform you of specific sites which are proving troublesome with this IP range?

Sorry for my ignorance - but what is a BRAS - I got the adam email regarding the possible outages (& hopefully wont be effected as I haven't turned off my modem for quite a while) - but what is it? Google search just suggests ladies lingerie, and I suspect adam are not installing that... :-p

themarvel2004 writes...

but what is a BRAS

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br...te_Access_Server

themarvel2004 writes...

what is a BRAS

Few links:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras
www.iec.org/newsletter/m...nalyst_fig_1.gif

Basically, do a search for Broadband Remote Access Server. And if you do a tracert / traceroute you'll see it after the first few hops if your not on Telstra Wholesale hardware.

Could this be the reason why I haven't been able to sign in to MSN Messenger last night and today?

theduke82 writes...

Could this be the reason why I haven't been able to sign in to MSN Messenger last night and today?

It can be a possible reason as to why you can not get onto MSN.
I guess we'll wait to see if Mark works out if it's a bogon problem or a routing advertisement problem :)

Mark...

One interesting way to advertise your route's?

114.30.96.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.96.0/19,"9556 i"
114.30.97.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.98.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.99.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.100.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.101.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.102.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.103.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.104.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.105.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.106.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.107.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.108.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.109.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.110.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.111.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.112.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.113.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.114.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.115.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.116.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.117.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.118.0/24,"9556 i"
114.30.119.0/24,"9556 i"

Wouldnt it be easier to advertise the /19 instead of individual /24's?

theduke82 writes...

Could this be the reason why I haven't been able to sign in to MSN Messenger last night and today?

I've had the same trouble. Also xbox live was giving me grief trying to sign in too. Never had it before.

NO-U writes...

Wouldnt it be easier to advertise the /19 instead of individual /24's?

Not really.

« Mark R Smith » writes...

Not really.

Fair enough :)

theduke82 writes...

Could this be the reason why I haven't been able to sign in to MSN Messenger last night and today?

It is if you are on a 114.x IP but they work for you if you are on a 122.x or 219.x IP. As it says in the outage notice, restart your modem until you get a non-114 IP and see if those sites work for you.

tyler durdin writes...

I've had the same trouble. Also xbox live was giving me grief trying to sign in too. Never had it before.

See my post above :)

I keep getting a 114 IP, which sucks!

theduke82 writes...

I keep getting a 114 IP, which sucks!

Perhaps use www.meebo.com until you get the problem fixed?

Also, there is the alternative which should solve all of your problems -> enable the proxy in internet explorer (not firefox, but can't hurt to do it in there too).

If you need help with that, let us know in here and someone should post exact destructions.

There's been some updates:

www.adam.com.au/outages_...-detail-1495.php

Tex writes...

It is if you are on a 114.x IP but they work for you if you are on a 122.x or 219.x IP.

Which 122.x and 219.x IP addresses belong to Adam? The ipfilter.dat I have for PIPE data seems to block most of the 122s and some of the 219s.

slaythenet writes...

Bogon filters?

Damn bogans, can't they just go back to the dole queue?

On a serious note though, I seem to be having issues being able to get to my car club's forum over on proboards, however its only happening when I've got a 114.x.x.x IP.

I've only bought this up because the "official" advisory states that it only seems to be Microsoft stuff not working with them but as far as I'm aware proboards wasn't Microsoft?

RikstaOfSmeg writes...

I've only bought this up because the "official" advisory states that it only seems to be Microsoft stuff not working with them but as far as I'm aware proboards wasn't Microsoft?

The "official" advisory stats that Microsoft sites are an example of some of the sites that aren't working, not that they're the only ones. They certainly won't be the only ones.

Schlampe writes...

The "official" advisory stats that Microsoft sites are an example of some of the sites that aren't working

Actually, the official advisory states that the issue is limited to Microsoft only...

"Update: 17 May, 9:28am
The remaining websites and services that seem to be effected are limited to Microsoft operated websites and services."

Power went out this morning now I'm back with a 114 IP address.

Tex writes...

Actually, the official advisory states that the issue is limited to Microsoft only...

That Adam's aware of. How many millions of websites are there? :)

Schlampe writes...

That Adam's aware of.

That's the trouble, it could be affecting more. I can only seem to get 114 addresses now too, no matter how many times I try...very annoying.

Schlampe writes...

That Adam's aware of.

All I clarified is what the outage advisory said: "limited to" not "example of" :)

What non-Microsoft sites are you having trouble with?...

Well still an issue. I can't sign into msn without the damned proxy. And I always get a 114 address. Dang.

tyler durdin writes...

Well still an issue. I can't sign into msn without the damned proxy. And I always get a 114 address. Dang.

I haven't had a 114 address yet. Is this only ADSl2+ customers or ADSL?

Tex writes...

All I clarified is what the outage advisory said: "limited to" not "example of" :)

LIES!

that seem to be effected "it seems" that issues are limited to Microsoft.

/me slaps Tex with a year 2 english book ;-p

I know there are millions of websites.
I know that Microsoft ones may not be the only ones affected by the 114.x IP issue.
What I am posting is only in reference to what Adam has written in their advisory and clearing up your personal reading of the statement to mean "examples"...

Schlampe writes...

The "official" advisory stats that Microsoft sites are an example of some of the sites that aren't working, not that they're the only ones.

The remaining websites and services that seem to be effected are limited to Microsoft operated websites and services.
Our upstream Internet transit provider have referred this fault to Microsoft..
We have also just emailed Microsoft directly..

The use of the word "seem" is clearly cancelled out by the use of the term "limited to Microsoft", which is then further confirmed with statements saying that only Microsoft have been referred to the issue and emailed.

"limited"
Main Entry: definite
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: Having distinct limits.

"Limited" clearly means that something is definite, with distinct limits, in this case, Microsoft only, even though as I've stated, it may not be the real-life case.

/me slaps Schlampe for acting like a Year 2 school boy! :)

Tex writes...

/me slaps Schlampe for acting like a Year 2 school boy! :)

Not because I am but because I can :) Besides, Microsoft can fix the whole internet in one go!

It seems to me that "seem" implies that you think you're right, but aren't completely sure - you're allowing for the possibility that you aren't completely right. So,

"The remaining websites and services that seem to be effected are limited to Microsoft operated websites and services."

means that at the time that text was written, the only websites that were absolutely being affected were Microsoft ones, but there could be a possibility that there were others, just that they hadn't been identified yet.

« Mark R Smith » writes...

but there could be a possibility that there were others, just that they hadn't been identified yet.

any updates? are things progressing?

« Mark R Smith » writes...

It seems to me that "seem" implies that you think you're right, but aren't completely sure - you're allowing for the possibility that you aren't completely right.

/pedantic on

I agree that would be the implication if the words "limited to" weren't used. ie. "The remaining websites and services that seem to be effected are Microsoft operated websites and services."

/pedantic off :)

Tex writes...

I agree that would be the implication if the words "limited to" weren't used. ie. "The remaining websites and services that seem to be effected are Microsoft operated websites and services."

It seems that the person who wrote the text you're commenting on also wrote the post you're replying to now. So it would seem that they though the problem was limited to Microsoft sites, as there weren't any others known at the time, but that there still seemed to be a possibility that other sites could be affected.

And I totally agree with that thought process. Purely in my opinion though, by using the words "limited to" it seemed to suggest the issue was indeed limited to Microsoft sites only. Certainly not having a dig at anyone's grammar, just trying to tidy up after Schlampe :)

*stabs self in eye with 114 IP to end the pain :-)

So why has the advisory not been updated yet. I advised the help desk 48 hours ago of another site, there are is another site listed here. It is all very well that they believed it to be Microsoft only at the time, but they certainly have information by now that this is not the case and they have not bothered to update their advisory.

Very poor form Adam.

« Mark R Smith » writes...

So it would seem that they though the problem was limited to Microsoft sites, as there weren't any others known at the time, but that there still seemed to be a possibility that other sites could be affected.

White Knuckles writes...

So why has the advisory not been updated yet.

Erm, I shouldn't think they will add every site which is effected to the outage notice, otherwise you may end up with pages and pages of pretty well useless information. The 114 issues are caused by outdated Bogon filters, as posted above, so the fault does not lay with Adam, it lays with the system/network administrators that do not update their filter lists.

All the MSN and stuff seems to be working OK with 114 IP's, but the proboards stuff I mentioned before seems to be having issues just giving me "Problem loading page" errors everytime I go there.

White Knuckles writes...

Very poor form Adam.

Very poor form from system/network administrators who don't properly update their bogon filters. Adam has done the right thing and now they are chasing up the ones who are still not doing their part.

what sort of percentage of sites/MTA's have problems with these ranges?

what of this can be checked, after buying the IP range, and before deploying it to customers? Given it happens with the last batch, and then this batch, you would like to think it doesnt happen to the next one as well.

Can you pre-plan 6 months and just run scripted tests.. so all this can be fixed (well lots of it) before it becomes used by customers?

or is this not as easy as it seems..?

Stalin writes...

or is this not as easy as it seems..?

I think the answer to that one comes in the form of a question:

How many millions (if not billions) of domains are there throughout the world? How can you, with any certainty determine that the reason you were unable to access the site is because of the bogon IP range?

To eliminate the problem, they would have to make a server manually access every domain on the planet from a bogon IP, parsing all results to see if it was a page or an error or simply a timeout.
Then, they'd have to make the same server access any sites which did not respond as expected from a "normal" IP. If those same sites did not respond, then the site is determined to be "down" at the time of testing and would (logically) have to be re-tried later by both servers.
If the site responded correctly then it would need to be double checked from a bogon IP to ensure that it wasn't down in the first instance and, if it was found to still be inaccessible, just to be certain, they'd have to re-load it from a "normal" IP again to be 100% certain it was still up.

You see you can't guarantee that all the sites will be available all the time so you could (very easily) get false positives if a host is under periodic heavy load and simply times out on occasion no matter where you're coming from.

So all up you'd be looking at multi-millions or possibly multi-billions of page hits and massive bandwidth usage.

All to try and diagnose a problem that will effect the minority of sites and a small portion of users which wasn't their (Adam's) fault in the first place, but rather (the fault of) sloppy hosts at the other end who haven't updated their filter records.

All said and done, unfortunately I don't think there was much of a better way for Adam to handle it than they way they did, which (IMO) was pretty good.

Not suggesting they should do that but they certainly should update their advisory to correct the misleading post they currently have there. The way it reads at the moment if you were getting the problem on a site other than a Microsoft site, it would be reasonable to assume it is unrelated.
An update indicating that some other sites are effected by the same problem would suffice.

Generally Adam do a great job with their service, however outage advisories are not one of their strong points.

Darkarnium writes...

Erm, I shouldn't think they will add every site which is effected to the outage notice

White Knuckles writes...

Generally Adam do a great job with their service, however outage advisories are not one of their strong points.

Yes some sort of update would be good.

tyler durdin writes...

Yes some sort of update would be good.

The Microsoft issues appear to have been resolved (I've not yet received word officially, but our testing shows that it's good at this point).

I'll update the outage notice shortly - for obvious reasons it's not practical to list every site that's reported.

Currently, there's been about 20 reported via helpdesk, and we're investigating each one and if necessary lodging tickets with the networks in question. I've removed 6 sites this morning from that list, now confirmed working and the remaining ones aren't "big" sites like Microsoft. sony.com was reported, but seems fine from my testing.

I suppose I'm happy enough for any sites with issues to be posted here, but it really is better to contact helpdesk. They'll add it to the master list and it'll be investigated from there.

Sam Silvester writes...

I'll update the outage notice shortly

Cheers, thanks for the update.

Matt writes...

<snip>

You cannot just check bogon lists, and all the common RBL's.. which should get rid of 80% of the problem with 1% of the effort?

Or you purchase the range, advertise the range, and continue advertising it for 'a period' then check common bogon/RBL lists, when you see that range removed from those lists (or most of the lists) then you give it out to your customers..

no need for billions of page hits, just a simple bash script that compares your new proposed range to a scripted download of RBL's and Bogon lists...

Thats what I would do at least. Whats wrong with that?

Stalin writes...

no need for billions of page hits, just a simple bash script that compares your new proposed range to a scripted download of RBL's and Bogon lists...

Erm, that won't necessarily turn up anything.

Going by www.cymru.com/Documents/bogon-list.html the 114.0.0.0/24 was debogonized 29th October 2007, so checking against bogon ranges in this case won't turn up squat.

The only method you can use to check if someone has an out of date bogon filter is to try and access the specified address. If your traffic gets dropped from that range (and not from another known to work with the site in question) chances are it's being filtered.

The only real way to test for this would be, as Matt said, a script with litterally BILLIONS of entries.

Im not suggesting a foolproof 100% hit rate, just something that gets a percentage of them with very little effort.

www.completewhois.com/bo...-details-all.txt

Eg ^ still has it..

Im not suggesting this wasn't done, just offering options.

is it possible people with the old address rangers could be getting this issue too as i seam to be getting the same symptoms but on a 219.90.238 range

alcoholic1 writes...

is it possible people with the old address rangers could be getting this issue too as i seam to be getting the same symptoms but on a 219.90.238 range

Unlikely to be the exact same problem, but issues do occur from time to time, give the helpdesk a call and see what they think.

Bradley Falzon writes...

Unlikely to be the exact same problem, but issues do occur from time to time, give the helpdesk a call and see what they think.

seams to of fixed it's self over nite :)