Whirlpool

Hi,

I'm about to setup a PC-less wireless broadband connection in a small holiday house mainly for my own use but would also like to allow my paying guests to use it when I'm not there.

Of course this is a very simple thing to achieve however as the wireless broadband connection has its limits and is relatively expensive (rural area so I can only go through Bigpond) I'd like to somehow cap the useage either by time or download amounts on a daily or weekly basis. I can then advertise the holiday house to include a nice fast broadband connection but also clearly state the limits so it's up to the guest to keep an eye on things themselves.

So, as it will be a PC-less system I wont be able to run software to manage this for me. I have asked Bigpond if they offer an appropriate service from their end but I don't like my chances. If I was to securely lock all the networking hardware away out of reach does anyone know if there's a wireless router available allowing me to do something like this ?

I'll probably only have a 2Gb (per month) connection so I'm going to have to limit usage to approx. 70Mb per day/500Mb per week OR somehow figure out a time based system. Whichever way I go I've got to be able to protect my expensive connection so I don't have to pay any excess fees & charges.

Anyone have any suggestions ?

That is a fairly complicated set of criteria.

1. Not many routers can handle the 3g modems.

2. No standard firmware will allow this level of control so you need a router with USB WAN port that allows you to put in 3rd party firmware that perhaps runs a hot spot service.
Asus models WL-500gP or gW might work. Still lots of issues for you to sort through. ie How to make sure people cannot bypass it.

SteveAndBelle writes...

Anyone have any suggestions ?

Yes, forget it.

The first rule of holiday homes is that if it's not bolted, cemented or super glued in, it'll walk, and that goes for your wireless router as well as your bandwidth allowance.

As the excess use charges are nightmarish, It might be better to advertise it as "Within good range of Bigpond wireless".

Complicated ? Yes, it seems to be.

I'm aware that not many routers can handle the 3g modems which is why I'm skipping all the 'domestic' grade stuff and just going straight for a commercial grade CDM-882seu unit from Call Direct. It costs 3 times more but it seems to be the only device stable enough to suit my needs plus it can get itself out of trouble if it ever gets hung up. Saves me an $800 return airfare just to press the reset button :)

So theres no way of doing this :( You'd think a small magic box with this kind of ability would be in high demand and could potentially simplify many other setups too like those in internet cafes, hotels etc. If it was built into a router then that would be even better !

There must be a way of doing this surely ?!

Oh, and believe me ... this gear will basically be setup somewhere no-one except me will be able to access and if they do manage to get to it my IP Video cameras will catch them in the act of destroying the house in the process ;)

SteveAndBelle writes...

You'd think a small magic box with this kind of ability would be in high demand and could potentially simplify many other setups too like those in internet cafes, hotels etc. If it was built into a router then that would be even better !

This sort of stuff is traditionally done using some sort of server - whim me if you want a recommendation, but I know you'd be paying less booking that flight:)

If someone else has any suggestions, would also like to hear them!

jbsloop writes...

If someone else has any suggestions, would also like to hear them!

Yeah, bring on the suggestions ... please !!

My fear would be like jbsloop. The excess charges on these plans are horrendous. No matter how you try and control it there are always people smarter than you are who have a life purpose to bleed your allowance.

I don't think it is your job to provide internet access.
Just use the dongle in your own laptop. If people want internet access tell them how to get it. ie buy an account for themselves. People are going away on holidays.

Also if there is a phone, they can use dialup. Again on their own account. It is perfectly fine for emails.

Yep, point taken however I'll give you a bit more info which will clear a few things up. Still doesn't justify handing out an internet connection to guests of our holiday house but it might clarify a few things.

I want a permanent internet connection at the property for two or three reasons. First is to allow me to keep an eye on the place while we're not there by connecting a few cameras to an IP Video Server and getting a static IP on the router. I am also connecting up the video output of a weather station and I'll have a device setup to allow me to keep and eye on the level of the water tank too. Control freak ? Yep :)

Secondly, we bought the property to use for our long service leave so my wife and I will be there for about 4 months early next year and there's no way I/we can survive without the internet (as sad as that is). How will we be able to quickly identify the type of snake that will probably bite me while I'm out chopping firewood or how will the wife ever survive without emailing all her friends each and every day or finding the best place in Tassie to buy Alpaca wool to knit me some socks ?

Seriously though we're planning to not have a TV while we're away so we would like to keep up to date with news & events etc. plus have that all important method of communicating with the outside world, which is the third reason ... VOIP ! The property has a landline running to it but it's been completely disconnected so instead of getting it reconnected at great expense I'd prefer to just run everything through VOIP via the internet connection.

We're not sure what we're going to do with the place once we've finished our Long Service Leave but one idea is to rent it out as a holiday house and as I'll have all this hardware in place I thought I may as well let others use it ... but under strict limits so that I don't have to pay excess usage fees etc. each month.

So, that's the background to the whole shimozzle. I haven't actually got any of the hardware yet as I'm still saving up for it (not cheap) however I DO have the Yagi antenna which works really well via a NextG card so all I need is the rest and I'll be in business :)

Anyone else got any ideas on somehow limiting an expensive Bigpond wireless internet connection for our holiday guests ??

SteveAndBelle writes...

Anyone else got any ideas on somehow limiting an expensive Bigpond wireless internet connection for our holiday guests ??

Yes, don't limit it. Bill the guests for their usage with a bond up front.

martin merewether writes...

Yes, don't limit it. Bill the guests for their usage with a bond up front.

Hmmm, thought of that but going by the attitude some people have of bonds these days including even HUGE bonds for residential rentals I'm not sure it will work well enough as I think I'll end up being out of pocket more often than not. Maybe I'm wrong, not too sure.

Good idea but I'd still love to be able to give people a solid quota to work with so they can police it themselves ... maybe even emulate an ISP and give them say 300-400Mb per week and then squish it down to dial-up speeds from then on. At least people could still get their emails etc.

Maybe there's a way I can just squish the bandwidth down to 64K full-stop ?! Most people wouldn't care to download movies & music etc. at that speed but it's still enough to do the basics. Hmmm, is this a possibility with a basic off-the-shelf wireless router I wonder ?! I've never really bothered to look into it to tell you the truth so maybe it is !?!?

Oooh, I've just stumbled across the new Telstra Security Bundle which may be able to do what I want plus a heap more I don't really need (but might be nice anyway). Here's what it says:

"The BigPond Security complete package includes:

Content Filter - Parental Controls
This will set time limits on your children's internet usage, monitor the sites they visit and provide you with reports of their browsing history. You can block known problem sites and filter websites for inappropriate language, images and topics - all depending on each child's age group. You can even tailor protection for your family and your PC using pre-set filters and flexible controls."

I don't have the time to look further into it right now but they're offering a 60-day free trial so I might take them up on that offer and see if it does what I want it to do with regards to the time limits. Hopefully I'll be able to strip out or 'null' any other 'Parental Controls' and just use it for limiting the time but I'll have to see.

Anyone know if this is 'work-aroundable' by those in the know or could this be exactly what I'm looking for ?? Seems like the best solution ... limit the connection at its source rather than trying to do it once it's already inside the house but maybe I'm living in a dreamland and maybe this is easy to hack ?!?! I'm also assuming that I can easily login & instantly disable this feature myself whenever I need to use the connection.

Will keep you posted but please send any comments through OK ! Thanks.

SteveAndBelle writes...

Anyone know if this is 'work-aroundable

yes by and 13 year old , just like the gov content filter was hacked in about 3 minutes of its release

it only filters sites , and does not limit speed

everything it can do , can also be done within your router and is much more secure

having a look at the whole bundle

my.bigpond.com/security/get/default.jsp

its also requires you uninstall any other security software you currently have installed
bigpond.custhelp.com/cgi...hp?p_faqid=12743

and at Minimum cost over 12 months $119.40. a year is robbery

SteveAndBelle writes...

First is to allow me to keep an eye on the place while we're not there by connecting a few cameras to an IP Video Server and getting a static IP on the router.

haha remind me not to stay their ;-) I dont like the hought of being spied on while on holiday.

On a serious note, wat you are trying to do is possible but generally requires some pretty high end equipment, as already suggested above you could setup a complete server to administer the setup or you could purchase a device silimar to what netcafes and hotels etc use such as this ne from NetComm: www.netcomm.com.au/products/hs960

gjlh writes...

haha remind me not to stay their ;-) I don't like the thought of being spied on while on holiday.

yes and the fact alone this video streaming will chew through yer bandwidth anyway and make use of the voip all but impossible

Perhaps a Linksys WRT54GL running OpenWRT, Tomato or dd-wrt (etc) might be able to do what you want. It won't interface directly with your NextG modem so you'll still need two boxes, but it may provide a reliable solution. I haven't researched if any of the firmwares will do exactly what you want, but I don't see why they couldn't.

Along the WRT54GL path... how about set up something like a Tomizone hotspot (billed in hour/day/month lots with a MB allowance) or set up a Meraki Pro with usage limits.

adam-e writes...

might be able to do what you want.

Nope, not bandwidth shaping it won't. Or at least it isn't part of the firmware on any of them yet. There are posts about how to do it, and the number of bricked wrt's it took to get there. But I don't think it is ready for the real world yet. Also they just don't have memory sufficient to handle it.

gjlh writes...

haha remind me not to stay their ;-) I dont like the hought of being spied on while on holiday.

Ha yeah, that must've come across as a bit strange.

Nah, the real reason I want to setup a couple of cameras is to get some live feeds of the amazing views of the coastline from the roof of the house which will in turn enhance the boring data output I get from the Weather Station ... kinda like having my own Weather Channel for the property. It'll also keep me going at my dull desk job here because I'll be able to see where all my hard earned cash is going :)

If I setup & angle the cameras well I'll also be able to keep an eye on distant bushfires plus once I've made my visual level meter for my water tank I should be able to sneak it into frame too. Handy.

None of this is essential of course but hey, I'm a bit of a dork when it comes to things like this and if it's possible I may as well give it a try :) I'm not planning on spying on tennats believe me ... mind you if I did I could probably sell the footage and pay the place off in no time !

Hmmm, a DIY 'Big Brother'... KIDDING of course !

SteveAndBelle writes...

First is to allow me to keep an eye on the place while we're not there by connecting a few cameras to an IP Video Server

Can you say "invasion of privacy"?

Are you going to be informing prospective renters of the presence of the cameras and their locations?

Yes, it's your property but people leasing it from you have the right to their privacy while they are there.

just run everything through VOIP via the internet connection.

What's the upload speed of this wireless internet (out of interest and wondering if it's enough to handle VOIP and video simultaneously).

'Scorpio65 writes...

Can you say "invasion of privacy"?

Yep, here goes "invasion of privacy" ... but as I wont be covering any part of the house I can't see how I'll be 'invading anyones privacy'. It will be of the costal views only and in fact I wont even get a shot of the roof in !!

Anyhoo, good points about the upload speed and VOIP concerns. I guess it'll just be a suck-it-and-see kinda situation but I'll keep that in mind along the way. Thanks.

It's looking more and more like it's not really possible. That's fine but there's no harm in picking all your brains in the process :) If anyone else has any ideas, suggestions or comments please speak up OK !

if you have to go next-g - have you looked into satellite connection?
aussie broadband are doing free installation under abg and you can get shaped connections after download limit is reached
just a thought

You mentioned that the phone line has been disconnected. Have you actually checked how much to reconnect. If the wires are in place then actual connection might be possible and who knows what broadband is available.

Also some country areas have wireless broadband via other suppliers who are much cheaper than BP.

wetherbee writes...

if you have to go next-g - have you looked into satellite connection?

No actually, I haven't looked into Satellite because I thought it was stupidly expensive. How much does it cost roughly and is it as stable as 3G ?

A workmate bought a rural property outback of QLD and her only option was to get satellite. It cost an absolute fortune (not sure of exact figures) and the performance & reliability was terrible especially when ti was cloudy &/or rainy. Things may have changed though ...

Revs Per Min writes...

You mentioned that the phone line has been disconnected. Have you actually checked how much to reconnect.

Yeah, kinda. I started looking into it but because the previous owners only had it as a voice line they couldn't say if it was ADSL capable. The few pieces of info I could scratch up about ADSL installations in the area wasn't looking good and in fact one of the neighbours didn't think it was possible either however I doubt they would've really looked into it too far so I'm still not 100% sure, only 98%.

The main reason I aborted the landline reconnect investigations is because none of the telcos could tell me if ADSL was possible at the address until I had paid for a phone line to be activated and their reasoning was because they needed to have an active line to use their test equipment on. Unbelieveable. I just pulled the pin on the whole thing then and there because I didn't want a part of such an antiquated system when I already knew wireless braodband via Telstra/BP was 100% perfect when used with the Yagi. Besides why bother with a landline at all if VOIP over the broadband connection is a possibility anyway !

I've looked into getting wireless broadband from other ISPs however none of them could reach their own services anywhere near the property and therefore I would be having to pay the premium to get a 'roaming' Telstra connection through them :( If wireless broadband is what I end up choosing my only choice is Telstra. Good thinking though but I have looked into those options many times (who wouldn't ;) Thanks for the input nevertheless.

wetherbee writes...

have you looked into satellite connection?

He also looking at VOIP, so satellite's out of the question (latency).

Call me Bob writes...

He also looking at VOIP, so satellite's out of the question (latency).

well if you do some research you would find that voip works fine over satellite.

check out activ8 or aussiebroadband and see what plans are available, satellite seems reliable to me but ive only had it for about 4 months now. you can get a $70 a month plan that is 6gb and then shaped i think, 3gb peak and 3 off peak

Call me Bob writes...

He also looking at VOIP, so satellite's out of the question (latency).

Well maybe not.

See there's no 'natural' mobile cover at the property which obviosuly deems 'natural' wireless broadband useless too however the brief test I did with the small Yagi produced amazing results which was encouraging ... so encouraging that I have upgraded the antenna to a slightly larger one with more gain (plus it's coated to handle the costal environment better) and have also bought a small vertical whip antenna too to trial a passive repeater type setup (ie. connect the Yagi to the vertical antenna without any active electronics involved and rely on the gain of both antennas to produce a reasonable enough signal to make a call). It's only a trial and if it doesn't work that's fine as I've only blown $20 on the small antenna. If it DOES work however I'll buy a 2nd Yagi and set it up as a permanent system allowing us to make voice calls on our pre-exisiting mobiles.

So, the need for VOIP isn't a high priority but in saying that if it works I may as well take advantage of it :)

SteveAndBelle writes...

The main reason I aborted the landline reconnect investigations is because none of the telcos could tell me if ADSL was possible at the address until I had paid for a phone line to be activated and their reasoning was because they needed to have an active line to use their test equipment on. Unbelieveable.

Just apply and ensure the order is marked "ADSL essential". If no ADSL is possible, you won't have to pay for the installation. If ADSL is possible, well all is good!

wetherbee writes...

you can get a $70 a month plan that is 6gb and then shaped i think, 3gb peak and 3 off peak

Wow, I'll definitely have a look ! Thanks for that :) Sure beats throwing $80 a month away for a 2Gb Bigpond connection ... but how does it go in rain or clouds etc. Is it still OK or do you get dropouts ?

'Scorpio65 writes...

Just apply and ensure the order is marked "ADSL essential". If no ADSL is possible, you won't have to pay for the installation. If ADSL is possible, well all is good!

Gees, why doesn't anyone from the telcos tell you these things when you're asking the questions ?

If this is the case I've got nothing to lose so I may as well book it now.

Do all telcos do this or just a few ? AAPT ??

It seems to be a hidden trick or tip within the telcos themselves specially Telstra. Ive seen posts here of people asking for NPGDSL (No Pair Gain DSL) lines to be activated by Telstra and the Telstra person who gets the request is usually stumped by the mere thought that a company code name is known by average joe.

Anyway, as people said in here, look at getting satellite and also get some info about getting the ABG subsidy coz that helps a long way since you wont be shelling out that much cash to pay for the installation. Of course, satellite is affected by weather phenomena but if the installer knows the tips and tricks of the trade then even if it rains or is cloudy you should be able to get decent access.

dodgyfilokid writes...

ABG subsidy

Wow, didn't even know it existed or what it even stood for, thanks for this info !!

Looking a little bit further into satellite and I reckon I'll save a fortune as I wont have to buy the special $700 3G router !

I'll keep delving into it all over the weekend, my head is spinning now ;)

SteveAndBelle writes...

how does it go in rain or clouds etc. Is it still OK or do you get dropouts ?

i havent noticed any drop outs in bad weather which we have had a lot of, sometimes we will have a degradation but i think thats just the missus getting impatient using facebook

its no good for online games though because of the previously mentioned latency

To simplify for you:

AussieBroadband will do a free install if you are eligible

for $70 you get a 6gb shaped plan - no excess fees.

Yes, there is a degree of latency, but downloads are 100% faster and more stable than ADSL.

VoIP is very possible and is actually offered by Aussie.

It uses the IPstar1 satellite, this basically shits allover the BigPond one.

The modem is great! works with any router/computer flawlessly.

Support is helpful and friendly. Uploads are not counted.

Any more questions - ask me, more than happy to help.

BTW - i have satellite, nothing wrong with it

If you use some sort of device. Router. Modem or something along those lines to cap the usage. It can be easily worked around by simply unplugging it. Example Modem >> Wireless Hotspot router. Simply unplug the hotspot and connect it directly to your PC. So that rules just about everything out.

Allowing free internet with your place would be fine if its capped. But id reccomend against it with bigpond. You dont want to come back to a few thousand dollar bill

As to satelitte. Im not sure on the price. But it isnt that bad.. I visited my Dad quite some time ago who lives far up the north of australia in the middle of no where. The satelitte there was 1.5mbit or so. And i could get 80-90KB/s pretty easily on it. Ping was shocking but page loading time and such was good enough for casual use.

Darn it. Just looking at the subsidy requirements I wont be able to check off this one:

"I live at the address supplied for at least 6 months each year".

Oh well, maybe sometime later down the track.

We're planning to use it as a holiday house for ourselves and then probably rent it out to others after we use it for 4 months early next year but who knows what could happen after that .. we might move to Tassie and make it our primary home in which case we would be eligible but for the time being it looks like Wireless or ADSL (if possible).

Thanks for all the Satellite info though. It sure opened my eyes !

SteveAndBelle writes...

Thanks for all the Satellite info though. It sure opened my eyes !

I'm in Tassie, a mate has Activ8, (too far from exchange for ADSL) he's not far out of town, but, lots of hills and many large trees.
He is happy with the connection speed, hardly any dropouts, also uses VOIP, he reckons the latency is not that bad.
Sounds like your new house is on the East Coast, should have no problems with getting a decent satellite connection.

Oh....the latency is around the 5 second mark