Whirlpool

Might as well start the discussion now...

Excellent.

J.

This is awesome! :)

Interested to see how this goes.

Interesting idea.

Agencies: I think the agency issue needs a bit more consideration. Government jobs can often only be attained via an agency. However in that instance an agency has often been pre-selected.

Some companies like to use an agency to do the vetting. Some companies use agencies so they avoid HR issues.

I 100% support the point that the idea is to stop 10 agencies advertising what is the same job. It's annoying and expensive to send out 10 applications to discover you've just applied for the same thing 10 times. It's also difficult if you're contacted by more than one agency to put you forward to the employer.

Fees: The fees issue is going to attract some comments. We've had 10 years where Simon hasn't used the WP brand to fill his bank accounts. Will this mark the end of this or are the fees simply going to be a way to mange the number of ads that are posted?

Listings: Can't wait to see some jobs listed so we can see how that rest of the interface looks like.

Simon how about dropping a couple of listings in so we can see what it looks like?

Cheers WTW

Wow, never saw that coming!

Good idea!

Matt

It certainly has the potential to be a valuable service for both employers and employees.

The question is, who is going to filter out the crap? Is that even possible?

What impact will having a (soon to be) paid service have on Whirlpools independence?

Is it worth it given the multitude of other ways there are to get your skills/resume/vacancies out there?

xnor writes...

The question is, who is going to filter out the crap? Is that even possible?

As jobs will not appear until they have been checked by mods, we are receiving a pay increase of 50% to cover this addition to our job description.

Gnuthad writes...

pay increase of 50%

How long have you guys know about the new system? Has its public release been held up due to pay negotiations?

Will this mean the appointment of more mods to take up the work load? Which section will be see those positions advertised in?

Cheers WTW

Gnuthad writes...

As jobs will not appear until they have been checked by mods, we are receiving a pay increase of 50% to cover this addition to our job description.

What happens if there's industrial action?

If you lot get sacked for striking, you might have to apply for jobs posted at the very job board you're supposed to vet.

Oh, the irony.

Anyway, get back to work! This ain't a coffee break!

PS: Great idea re the job board; let's hope it proves to be a valuable resource to those seeking from both sides of the fence.

J.

Gnuthad writes...

As jobs will not appear until they have been checked by mods

Will this be the responsibility of the entire mod team? That is, is the Job Board a new "section" or do all mods, regardless of their status, take on this new role?

J.

Gnuthad writes...

jobs will not appear until they have been checked by mods

Checked how/for what?

we are receiving a pay increase of 50% to cover this addition to our job description.

Who covers the costs associated with verifying the identity of the person placing the advertisement?

Justin. writes...

..do all mods, regardless of their status, take on this new role?

No, only full mods.

Strangely enough though, the enormous incrememntal pay rise applies to us anyway!

Gnuthad writes...

As jobs will not appear until they have been checked by mods, we are receiving a pay increase of 50% to cover this addition to our job description.

$0x150% = $0?

Well done on the pay rise!

(edited: I really need to check my posts more often... but I suppose it was right as 50%, too)

Marvin Martian writes...

the enormous incrememntal pay rise applies to us anyway!

How generous of them. Your union must drive a hard deal.

J.

Gnuthad writes...

As jobs will not appear until they have been checked by mods,

What checking process is planned?
What fees are planned?
And how do the mods plan to spend their increase in pay?
:-)
Seem to be in a planning frame of mind!

This is fantastic. I hope the screening process doesn't create too much work for you Mods though.

I'll be using this in a couple of years.

Thank you very much!

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

$0x50% = $0?

Well yes cutting someone's pay in half would equal that if it was $0. :P

Nice idea!

A little off topic, but one thing I want to see Whirlpool venture out into is webhosting. There could be free and paid plans, and you can use the money from them to fund the site

It's kind of not the same thing, Garion. Webhosting would involve actually setting up the physical hardware, accounting and other areas including support.

Whirlpool is hosted for free by the lovely people at Web Central.

pixelbunny writes...

Webhosting would involve actually setting up the physical hardware, accounting and other areas including support.

I suppose so.

Is it possible to add a filtering system to the jobs board when it picks up a bit. I'd hate to search through hundreds of jobs when I'm just after a certain type in a certain area

DO you mean by Industry, rather than Position? That's a good suggestion.

tikalal writes...

Well yes cutting someone's pay in half would equal that if it was $0. :P

I swear I typed 150%. Oh well, that's just me being dopey... but then again, 50% may work.

I think this is an excellent way to fund the site - it is non core to Whirlpool but nicely related, and doesn't monetize existing content.

I think the most important focus for this project should be on providing this as a service to the community - not to employers. I strongly support the requirement to disclose the employer. I'd personally like to see it go further, with requirements to disclose salary guidelines and other conditions.

In this spirit, will we be allowed to discuss job ads in the forums? I hope so.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

I swear I typed 150%. Oh well, that's just me being dopey... but then again, 50% may work.

Hehe don't worry, I'm sure you're better at maths than me! I failed my exam, then failed the re-sit and now I'm in a different subject. :)

Johnno writes...

Anyway, get back to work! This ain't a coffee break!

Actually it will be "Anyway, get back to work! This ain't the coffee lounge!"

/forum-replies-archive.cfm/67049.html

Rikki's writes...

how do the mods plan to spend their increase in pay?

Herring & Candy parties where we romp around naked in secure rooms to avoid the chance of video footage from appearing later on YouTube.

Gnuthad writes...

Herring & Candy parties where we romp around naked in secure rooms to avoid the chance of video footage from appearing later on YouTube.

For once I'm glad I wasn't invited...

Gnuthad writes...

Herring & Candy parties where we romp around naked in secure rooms

Argh, my eyes!

far out you have too much time simon

Is this step one to Whirlpool becoming a business? It's already a brand name and a distinct one at that. I am concerned mostly for the independence of the site with the introduction of paid (IS it paid? - I am unclear on this) job advertising. It's a stretch at the moment to see how it could be compromised given the nature and breadth of the community but hey - stranger things have happened. My main concern is that this is less a service to the community than a commencement of the growth of the Whirlpool brand.

Please feel free to comment.

i reckon though simon charge for it, put it to a new server for this website.

I am 50/50, as a community member I love the independence of WP, as a potential advertiser I love the fact I could reap the WP brains trust in candidates :)

Gator writes...

I am concerned mostly for the independence of the site with the introduction of paid (IS it paid? - I am unclear on this) job advertising.

From the Job Board FAQ

Currently, the Whirlpool Job Board is a free service. Be aware this may change in future, as putting a nominal fee on ads is an effective way to keep the job list trim and increase the overall usefulness of the service.

Based on this there appears to be no immediate plan to charge for the service.

Gator writes...

Is this step one to Whirlpool becoming a business?

As the Job Boards FAQ says, any fees for listing will be nominal.

They will be purely for the purpose of further ensuring job ads listed are legitimate and of decent quality.

Keep in mind at this stage no fees are being charged and we will only look at implementing fees if we need to to ensure the quality of listings.

If we wanted to raise funds, there are a lot better ways to do it than possible nominal fees on job ads.

(IS it paid? - I am unclear on this)

Also covered in the Jobs Board FAQ:

Currently, the Whirlpool Job Board is a free service. Be aware this may change in future, as putting a nominal fee on ads is an effective way to keep the job list trim and increase the overall usefulness of the service.

My main concern is that this is less a service to the community than a commencement of the growth of the Whirlpool brand.

Keep in mind we have allowed IT&T type job advertisements for a long time.

The Jobs Board formalises that and makes it more accessible.

There are no plans to turn Whirlpool into a business and for many reasons,. I doubt there ever will be, as the very value of the site comes from independence etc. that is very hard to have on a site run by a commercial entity.

Gator writes...

Please feel free to comment.

If Simon (via WebCentral) can manage the potential bandwidth issues, I have no issue with it personally.

It has to be said that heretofore this place has never leaned towards any other commercial resource other than its sponsor, and it needs sponsorship.

I just assume this continues Simon's philosophy of making his site available to users as a free service, the availability of hardware and bandwidth being the only limitation on that.

Edit:
Thor's post above is possibly a cleverer way of saying that :).

Thor writes...

There are no plans to turn Whirlpool into a business and for many reasons,. I doubt there ever will be, as the very value of the site comes from independence etc. that is very hard to have on a site run by a commercial entity.

That is the essence of Whirlpool - its independence. I would hate to see that compromised in any way. I am mollified for now but ...

*dances skittishly in the thread*

.. it makes me nervous.

Simon Wright writes...

Might as well start the discussion now...

I have a question that blows all others away, how do we access this job board outside this thread or bookmarked link? Will it be added to the menu?

Loctorak writes...

For once I'm glad I wasn't invited...

I'd be as well!

Though a Candy & herring party wouldn't be such a bad idea.....

Tasc writes...

how do we access this job board outside this thread or bookmarked link? Will it be added to the menu?

It's actually situated right on top of the IT Forum main page:
/forum-threads.cfm?f=80

Can't miss it. ;)

Loctorak writes...

situated right on top of the IT Forum

IMO it could do with a proper menu option as opposed to a single link in the IT Forum.

Justin. writes...

How generous of them. Your union must drive a hard deal.

There's no need to bargin. We all know they're worth every cent!

If they wanted monkeys then they'd be paying peanuts.

Syntax%20Error writes...

If they wanted monkeys then they'd be paying peanuts.

No offence, but that's offensive to monkeys :p.

Syntax%20Error writes...

If they wanted monkeys then they'd be paying peanuts.

I'd be prepared to accept a pay rise :-P

Wile.E.Coyote writes...

I'd be prepared to accept a pay rise :-P

Pfft.

150% doesn't do it for you?

Actually, I agree. Where's the totally non-existent and highly discredited GUWPCT when you need them?

I suspect it would be a pretty safe bet to say there are no monkeys on the mod team, but I'm not too sure what that means, or how you guys should take it?

So, just take it in the nicest possible way, and then perhaps we can all move on none the wiser...

Simon Wright writes...

Might as well start the discussion now...

Surely this is worthy of a front page news article, especially if you want to bring it to more people's attention.

Loctorak writes...

/forum-threads.cfm?f=80

Or: whirlpool.net.au/jobs

I'm sure you'll work it all out as you go along... (it looks like something that could go really well BTW), but is there any issue with people linking to jobs or advertisments they don't own, or is there some protocol (written or not) that would suggest the actual employer should approve placement of one of their ads with WPJobs?

WTW writes...

I think the agency issue needs a bit more consideration. Government jobs can often only be attained via an agency

Is that why our last few people have been duds?..
I agree maybe an exception could be made. Maybe 'The GUWPCT IT hiring co.' could act as a go-between.
It's a great idea, possibly adding to the Mod burnout factor though.
Goodluck with this one!

Will we see it show up in the menu on the left?

will it show 'beta' for the first 5 years (like Google apps)

Syntax%20Error writes...

or is there some protocol (written or not) that would suggest the actual employer should approve placement of one of their ads with WPJobs?

It's a bit of a work in progress just now, however if prospective employers wish to use the job board they must understand and agree to the conditions laid out in the Job Board FAQ

I can see this being useful.

Wilber Washbucket writes...

Surely this is worthy of a front page news article, especially if you want to bring it to more people's attention.

We'll bring attention to it after its had a few jobs posted in it.

≤ Matt ≥ writes...

Though a Candy & herring party wouldn't be such a bad idea.....

It was actually candied herrings, there was a typo on the invitation. As if all the moderators dancing naked wasn't enough reason to avoid the party!

There is the first job.

Mr Worthless writes...

There is the first job.

I predict it to hit high hit-rate heaven, given Whirlpool's already current high prominence.

WebCentral, may we have some more servers please?

If Simon intends to make this a paid service, I would suggest that a prominent link of equivalent size beneath the knowledge base link, labelled "Jobs", would be appropriate in securing payment of any proposed fees.

This presents itself as an exciting opportunity for Whirlpool to raise a consistent level of funding from multiple sources in order to maintain and upgrade the backend systems over time.

Whilst I recognise Thor's concerns relating to independence and commerical organisations, I don't believe there will be any material "independence" issues as a result of this endeavour. A sufficiently drafted terms of usage agreement will prevent any surreptitious partisanship; i.e. companies either agree that Whirlpool is an open community where bad feedback may be received and thus post a job advertisement, or they can refuse to use the service.

In any event, fees should be actively sought given the immense and highly targeted exposure to some 225,000 users.

GarionW writes...

A little off topic, but one thing I want to see Whirlpool venture out into is webhosting. There could be free and paid plans, and you can use the money from them to fund the site
www.webcentral.com.au

Gnuthad writes...

Herring & Candy parties where we romp around naked in secure rooms to avoid the chance of video footage from appearing later on YouTube.

I'n not getting a good visual on this

Mark ...... writes...

www.webcentral.com.au

I was thinking something along the lines of frihost where Simon gets to keep all of the profits.

And you have to admit, there aren't many decent plans out there, compared to what the US have

Mr Worthless writes...

There is the first job.

The question is do you actually apply for a job at iiNet or just wait for them to take you over? :-)

But seriously, this is going to be a very useful service. As a bit of twist to this idea, would it be possible to set up an area under our profile to list our skills, qualifications, experience etc. and make that searchable by prospective employers? Make them come to us?

~vaio writes...

Whilst I recognise Thor's concerns relating to independence and commerical organisations

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't see nominal fees for listings to ensure some level of quality as something that compromises our independence, what I'm saying that if WP were to become a for profit entity or the like, independence would be much more difficult to maintain.

Thor writes...

if WP were to become a for profit entity or the like, independence would be much more difficult to maintain.

almost impossible
the inherent tensions means decisions would have to be made to err on the side of 'for profit'
I would be sad to see this, even tho I'm new to WP and at times irreverant it's value is enormous to those of us who have some idea but not that much of Technology.
There is a wealth of indep info and opinion here
Mind you sometimes......
but that's another story
:-)

Thor writes...

I don't see nominal fees for listings to ensure some level of quality as something that compromises our independence, what I'm saying that if WP were to become a for profit entity or the like, independence would be much more difficult to maintain.

Any fee would be levied for profit since the site is completely free to use.

Simon should exploit this extremely lucrative opportunity to its full extent. I foresee no issues with maintaining the independence of moderators since it is in the best interests of Simon to ensure they remain as independent as possible at risk of causing a mass exodus of users should partisanship be condoned.

~vaio writes...

Any fee would be levied for profit since the site is completely free to use.

That makes the assumptions the site has no costs, as to make a profit your income must exceed costs.

The fee as indicated will be nominal. It isn't aimed to recoup other costs or generate profits.

Simon strongly believes that based on research he has done that job sites with fees have a much higher quality of job advertisements. If it were the other way around, we would not be considering fees at all, as there is no need.

As previously said there is no fees required for listing now and will only be implemented if required.

Simon should exploit this extremely lucrative opportunity to its full extent.

Simon has made no indications he wishes to "exploit" this opportunity.

Stan Devia writes...

The question is do you actually apply for a job at iiNet or just wait for them to take you over? :)

Wonder how many customers you need ;p

Qdos to iiNet for supporting the project and being the first to put toe in the water.

Cheers WTW

i think what would be good is if inside each job in the job board there was a a thread/discussion area/tab attached to it (doesn't necessarily need to show up in the job forum section in the main discussion forum) where users can discuss the job to each other etc -maybe a bad idea?

iB3nji writes...

i think what would be good is if inside each job in the job board there was a a thread/discussion area/tab attached to it

I think that would make it less likely for employers to list if there was a dedicated discussion thread. Maybe they could include the Whim function so applicants could ask questions without having to email etc?

Is whirlpool going to continue allowing job advert threads (as below) too?
/forum-replies.cfm?t=975253

I also think it'd be a great idea to have this as front page news!

katwithane writes...

Is whirlpool going to continue allowing job advert threads (as below) too?
/forum-replies.cfm?t=975253

AFAIK yes, you'll have the option to either post on the job board or post a thread in the job section. I'm not sure whether or not we'll We won't be allowing both options to job posting, though.

I also think it'd be a great idea to have this as front page news!

Simon's indicated he'll publicise it more when there's more activity/interest.

Loctorak writes...

Simon's indicated he'll publicise it more when there's more activity/interest.

Doh! I did actually read that post too!

Simon Wright writes...

We'll bring attention to it

It's now on the menu!

I would find a category for Customer Service Representatives / Sales an appropriate category to add to the board.

Hmmm, interesting development.

Given the current fee structure associated with recruitment agencies and the amount that companies are willing to pay employees directly to assist with finding new workers (in IT at least). This could quickly become a hit.

I wouldn't be surprised if fees are introduced quickly following that and that in fact they may not become so nominal because, afterall, there would be some work involved...

Overall, glad to see that there might be some sort of side-business emerging for Simon and Co from this, they have a fair bit of trust (rightly so far) vested by this community.

PS... I think this is a good reaction to the increasing number of job ads posted in the IT forums...

interesting to see its now shown on the main menu bit on the left but still only two jobs lol.

But simon any reason why your not charging? like we really badly need a new server surley like $10-$30 a ad for 30 days would be good. Doesn't seem much but its a company...they can afford that.

Interesting. Even with the very minimal commencement of jobs, it would probably draw a lot of attention and be helpful for those seeking IT jobs.

Whirlpool jobs? Interesting idea - I didn't see it coming :)

I can't wait to see it fill up with jobs for people. I think this really will be useful for many people.

great job Simon & team!

Tasc writes...

It's now on the menu!

It is good to see that my suggestion was implemented.

I would further reiterate the lucrative opportunity in charging commercial rates for the advertising space that targets over 225,000 users many of which with direct involvement in the IT sector.

Tasc writes...

It's now on the menu!

That's good. It should get more jobs in it now, you'd think as more people notice it.

I think a job ad for WP reporters for the news page would be appropriate.

≤ Matt ≥ writes...

That's good. It should get more jobs in it now, you'd think as more people notice it.

The IT Industry Forum rules have now been updated to take into account the job board as well to help push it along too.

Not sure if this has been mentioned. I think that a Close Date for applications should be included in the mandatory fields.
(This could also help further down the track in scripting an automated removal process??)

Tailgator writes...

I think that a Close Date for applications should be included in the mandatory fields.

Well all ads last for thirty days, so I guess it's assumed that the close date is either 30 days from its post date, or when the ad is actually taken down.

Tailgator writes...

Not sure if this has been mentioned. I think that a Close Date for applications should be included in the mandatory fields.

According to the FAQ

How long do ads run for?

By default, 30 days. However you will be able to reapply or take down your ad at any time.

Prehaps an 'advert posted on...' as part of the ad?

katwithane writes...

Prehaps an 'advert posted on...' as part of the ad?

I'm sorry, care to expand on that? What are you referring to?

Sorry :D Its getting late.
If there isn't going to be a reference to when the closing date for applications is (because adverts last for 30 days) perhaps there could be something mentioning when the advert was placed to alert applicants to the timeframe they have left in which to apply.
Make sense?

Sounds good. Only thing is that it could be gotten around somewhat like they do with the online, commercial ones by refreshing instead of renewing. Hmmm...

Well done!

this should help the many ppl looking for a job in IT

i think it's a great idea. my only comment is that the name could be better, i wasnt sure if 'job board' was employement or things that simon had to do on the site or things in the wiki etc that needed to be clean up

entropy1 writes...

my only comment is that the name could be better, i wasnt sure if 'job board' was employement or things that simon had to do on the site or things in the wiki etc that needed to be clean up
I think clicking on the link once would clear any source of potential confusion.

Ralph Nader QC  writes...

I think a job ad for WP reporters for the news page would be appropriate.
Wrong thread?
/forum-replies.cfm?t=966398
The day Whirlpool News died?

What a good idea! Anything that reduces the influence of the thoroughly disreputable and unprofessional recruitment agencies has to be a good thing.

whirlpool.net.au/jobs/?action=job&id=11

you click the "World Series Paintball" link at the top and it takes you to : whirlpool.net.au/jobs/ww...paintball.com.au

:S

Well, I was pleasently surprised to see the new menu option.

Well done. I think this is a good idea.

Obviously, members have access, but do guests, and will that be a problem at all? Should it be restricted to members only?

Also, the drop down list for location is a bit messy in my opinion. I think it would look neater, and make finding a location a bit quicker if it was sorted alphabetically. And you are not likely to cop the, why is our town at the bottom of the list.

As for agencies, it was mentioned that Gov't jobs are only through agencies. Maybe something like the "I am an authorised employee from this company" declaration could be applied, something like "This job is through an agency", with agency details as well. Maybe food for thought.

rocket writes...

Obviously, members have access, but do guests, and will that be a problem at all? Should it be restricted to members only?

Turns out I checked the wrong job posting whilst logged out.

Guests do, indeed, also have the 'apply now' button open to him. Presumably to reach a wider demographic rather than forcing users to sign up before applying.

Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but the "Job Board" text looks slightly larger than the other menu items on the left.

Stan Devia writes...

optical illusion

It might be the capital 'B'?

Woah, nice.. Very nice.

rocket writes...

Obviously, members have access, but do guests, and will that be a problem at all? Should it be restricted to members only?

You are required to be a Whirlpool user to submit a job. However this is simply to provide authentication for subsequent actions.

A whirlpool account is absolutely not required to read or respond to job ads -- there's just no reason to limit it that way. Perhaps if companies that use the board see a value in limiting their ad to members only, I could add that as an optional feature, but I don't expect anyone will ask.

Great work, it seems it is starting to take off already.

This is a good idea, being a student current doing a Uni degree in ICT i will be keeping an eye on this new resource for job hunting.

Another thought, although it could open another can of worms, is a Jobs Wanted section within the existing Job listing page.

Just a thought. Haven't seen anyone else suggest it. But then, I didn't look too hard at the previous 5 pages.

Cheers

Well, I absolutely love the error checking features of this new jobs board!

whirlpool.net.au/jobs/?action=job&id=1
whirlpool.net.au/jobs/?a...n=job&id=100

Perhaps if we could have it check if the entry exists? A 404 page would be appropriate in this situation.

;)

And it seems there is no WIKI entry for this new site feature :)

ultimateACE writes...

And it seems there is no WIKI entry for this new site feature :)

whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?t...ITandTForumRules

ultimateACE writes...

And it seems there is no WIKI entry for this new site feature :)

There's a FAQ link on the Jobs Page. Why does it need a separate wiki?

C.

Corey writes...

C.

Corey,

How come you still work here now that you are making big bucks on big brother? I was wondering, if you leave WP, will they advertise your job on the Job Board too? And will the site handle the divide by zero errors that are certain when your wage rate is listed?

I'll understand if you don't respond... confidentiality clauses and all that eh ;)

Cheers,
Syntax%20%Error
(I'll have to get that fixed one day)


Edit: Post edited...

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I'll decide how to deal with usability issues if and when they arise.

I would like to be able to filter or sort the jobs by location somehow. I am interested in interstate jobs, but I like to check local jobs before widening my scope.

I wonder how long the approval process takes.
i have a job pending there now.

My comments on the job board is its fantastic. I love the usability of it. Yes it could use more features but no point implementing any ideas until people start using it.

ahh there we go ... not bad about 30 mins to approve new jobs.

In the future it seems like a good way to generate some income for Simon, while genuinely adding value to the site for everyone. Great idea.

murrayh writes...

I would like to be able to filter or sort the jobs by location somehow.

+1

I would think that this is already on the agenda to be implemented as the job list grows.

And alphabetically too, as in ACT, then NSW, then NT, then QLD, then SA, then TAS, then VIC and lastly WA.

Also, should NZ get a mention too? Oh, and Fiji as well. :-)

in the 'replies' field for the job board, can we get a counter for how many positions are listed there?

it would be nice to quickly see how many jobs are listed without having to go into the job board

web.aanet.com.au/nitro/W...ool/jobboard.JPG

murrayh writes...

I would like to be able to filter or sort the jobs by location

Eeyore writes...

in the 'replies' field for the job board, can we get a counter

All the obvious stuff like this is on the to-do list.

I'm already collecting state and regions, which when combined with suburb will provide ample filtering. I've also got plans on how to summarise new info for the forums and elsewhere. I'm going to wait till there's a lot more jobs posted first though, as I prefer when possible to work with real data.

Simon Wright writes...

All the obvious stuff like this is on the to-do list.

Does that include 'part time, full time, contract, perm'? I didn't notice those on the application form (confess I haven't checked back to see if they were added... could also need new glasses)

Cheers WTW

Nice addition to the site :)

I'd certainly pay to use it also.

I noticed this on the job board - 'Developer at ninemsn' -

Hope this doesn't relate in any way to Simon's previous poor record with April Fools Jokes :-)

Cheers