I do not understand why Telstra Bigpond continue to charge more money for their ADSL 2+ product when other providers actually charge less for their own ADSL 2+ products.

ADSL 2+ with other providers namely Internode, TPG, and Optus all charge siginifically less due to the lower overheads required with this product. Telstra on the otherhand continue to charge ridiculous prices for their products whilst also enforcing contracts of either 12 or 24 months.

If it wasn't enough for the extremely pricey plans, the lengthy contracts are a second blow to the customer, especially for customer's such as myself who if they want ADSL 2+, that Telstra unfortunately is the only option at present!

Your not even with BigPond...

BigPond has a different pricing structure as does every other ISP. If the market doesn't like their prices they do not have to purchase their products.

I don't have to be with Bigpond to be able to speak about their plans and pricing.

I used to work for Telstra Bigpond and i know their products. They continually choose to overprice their products, this being a massive factor for people such as myself who wish to obtain ADSL 2+ and unfortunately can only get it with Telstra.

Yes i do understand that i do not have to get the product with Bigpond, but as i work in the Telecommunications/Broadband industry i know how the pricing game works.

50% market penetration says that Bigpond ADSL2+ plans are not overpriced. If they ever lose market, not gain it, the prices will go down. See what happened with Next G wireless? Vodafone and Hutchinson gained market share, so Bigpond wireless prices went down.

SaBiH writes...

I don't have to be with Bigpond to be able to speak about their plans and pricing.

I notice how its MAINLY users from Internode always complain about bigpond, wonder why ?

+15437980 SaBiH writes...
this being a massive factor for people such as myself who wish to obtain ADSL 2+ and unfortunately can only get it with Telstra.

Why complain about Bigpond ?

Simple IF Bigpond ADSL2+ is too much for you, no one is forcing you to use it, no use in complaining because its not Telstra's fault the competitors aren't there.

Should be complaining to Optus and Internode, etc to supply there own ADSL2+, they have a free reign in ADSL 2+ , to compete with Telstra

SaBiH writes...

If it wasn't enough for the extremely pricey plans, the lengthy contracts are a second blow to the customer, especially for customer's such as myself who if they want ADSL 2+, that Telstra unfortunately is the only option at present!

No-one is forcing you to get DSL2+ - if you're not happy with the selection available at Telstra/Bigpond then I suggest you complain or question the other companies that havn't yet offered products where you are.

Telstra on the otherhand continue to charge ridiculous prices for their products whilst also enforcing contracts of either 12 or 24 months.

How many ISP's have month to month contracts without huge churning, application and other misc fees (pay to change my plan? no thanks!)?

I'm sorry you don't find the BigPond plans are in your price range - but I'm sure there's millions of other customers who find their plans and everything extra they offer to be great value!

SaBiH writes...

I do not understand why Telstra Bigpond continue to charge more money for their ADSL 2+ product when other providers actually charge less for their own ADSL 2+ products.

As others saying, you don't need to use bigpond if you don't like the price.

Now to be fair, lets compare with other ISP.

Bigpond - which i assumed u know about this already as u mentioned that u worked for bigpond before
- 24 months contract.
- Free modem
- 24/7 tech support
- 9-12 months half price
- combined with land line = $10 off.
- No connection fee.
- GameArena - if not the biggest gaming server in australia, they will one of top 3.
- They have shit lots of any kind of file that you can download for free.

No other ISP provided all that.

Bigpond plans are great value (agreed they are expensive. It you can't afford it then don't get it. You can go wireless with 3 / vodafone.

SaBiH writes...

I do not understand why Telstra Bigpond continue to charge more money for their ADSL 2+ product when other providers actually charge less for their own ADSL 2+ products.

What is the point of this post? Do you want BigPond to charge less that its competitors to squeeze them out of the market?

Who said BigPond had to charge the same as its competitors?

If you actually use the tools available on this site you'd soon find that there is a rage of prices for ADSL2+ rather than BigPond and the rest all together.

SaBiH writes...

for their products whilst also enforcing contracts of either 12 or 24 months

well you have a 12mth exit fee plan dont you?

their ADSL 2+ product when other providers actually charge less for their own ADSL 2+ products

thought that would make you happy seeing how you use another isp

the lengthy contracts are a second blow to the customer,

unlike exit fee plans

customer's such as myself who if they want ADSL 2+, that Telstra unfortunately is the only option at present!

are the only ones willing to offer it

Geez come on guys, he's making an observation. Yes you're absolutely right, no one is forcing anyone to use bigpond.

Would you complain if the price of petrol at a particular petrol station was significantly more than the majority of others that for some reason you had limited access to?

I know i'm asking for trouble, and i know that a million people are going to come up with rebuttals. Just try to be a bit open minded

Lukeb1987 writes...

Geez come on guys, he's making an observation

that anyone can make and choose who they go with

no one is forcing anyone to use bigpond

exactly

Would you complain if the price of petrol at a particular petrol station was significantly more than the majority of others that for some reason you had limited access to

they are all to expensive

Just try to be a bit open minded

likewise, the op is just trolling, like a lot of the users of the same isp that they use

Lukeb1987 writes...

Just try to be a bit open minded

The OP needs to be a bit understanding if he chooses to use lesser abled ISPs and understand that providing infrastructure comes at a cost. This cost is built into the product price, I'm sure balanced to some extent by what Bigpond believe users can/will pay too - they're there to make money after all.

I live in a regional2 area, I don't see _ANY_ other ISP bothering to install infrastructure near me.

Although I agree with the O.P - Telstra isn't the one and only body to point the blame at. The state of broadband in Australia is due to the government, selling Telstra, and giving away the reigns.

I also blame other ISPs for not investing in sufficient services for the whole of Australia. Simply despicable.

I am not a fanboy for any ISP! I am simply making an observation.

Fortunately, I have been on both sides; working for Bigpond and also as a customer.

My gripe is not Telstra's services which many of you guys have already mentioned, but that Telstra do not offer anything more exciting than other ISP, which I personally believe do not warrant their outrageous pricing.

Multiple ISP's offer online gaming servers, free downloadable content (eg. linux distros), free online tools (ie. virus scanner, firewall, and spyware scanners), multiple free email accounts, massive personal webspace all inclusive of the plan price per month.

SaBiH writes...

My gripe is not Telstra's services which many of you guys have already mentioned, but that Telstra do not offer anything more exciting than other ISP, which I personally believe do not warrant their outrageous pricing.

+1

SaBiH writes...

My gripe is not Telstra's services which many of you guys have already mentioned, but that Telstra do not offer anything more exciting than other ISP, which I personally believe do not warrant their outrageous pricing.

I disagree. Bigpond offer more value add's than any other ISP by far. They have Bigpond Music, Movies, Sport with AFL and NRL and Horse Racing, V8 Supercars video streaming etc.

You may not use all these but its there.

They also do not split their usage allowance between peak and off peak allowing you to use your quote when you want to, not work around the ISP's policy.

Support is always there and its been decent each time I have had to call them which is quite rare.

Its also really easy to sign up as they have an extensive dealer network.

All this adds up to value. Good value doesnt always mean the cheapest price. If that were the case, we would all be driving Hyundais.

Mr Murano writes...

I disagree. Bigpond offer more value add's than any other ISP by far

Hmm ok.

I'm with Spin, let's compare:
Spin 40gb ADSL2+ Plan
Price: $69.95 per month
Data: 40gb
Free PIPE Traffic
Quick, efficient support
Reliable

Telstra 25gb ADSL2+ Plan
Price $99.95 per month
Data: 25gb
Bigpond music, movies, sport, etc....
Good service
Reliable

I think i know which is better value :-) They might offer more 'value-adds' but these additions are integrated into the high price.

Good value + expensive are sometimes a little contradictory

Mr Murano writes...

They also do not split their usage allowance between peak and off peak allowing you to use your quote when you want to, not work around the ISP's policy.

A lot of ISPs do this

Im with the o.p. Telstra is run by a yank and as usual they are greeedy people. Theres being profitable and then theres greed. And telstra go on about there responsibility to share holders.hmmm what about them losing out on the whole saling of adsl2+? I will not use them in a million years, id go back to dial up.

SaBiH writes...

but as i work in the Telecommunications/Broadband industry i know how the pricing game works.

"I do not understand why Telstra Bigpond continue to charge more money for their ADSL 2+ product when other providers actually charge less for their own ADSL 2+ products." - you earlier quote.

You know how the pricing game works but you don't understand.

SaBiH writes...

My gripe is not Telstra's services which many of you guys have already mentioned, but that Telstra do not offer anything more exciting than other ISP, which I personally believe do not warrant their outrageous pricing.

Well by looking at your previous post it seems to me Telstra offer you something more exciting than other ISP's in your area. ADSL2+

SaBiH writes...

especially for customer's such as myself who if they want ADSL 2+, that Telstra unfortunately is the only option at present

Unfortunately for you if other ISP's don't want to invest their dollars into providing you with access to ADSL2+ then your beef should be with them not Telstra.

TBLackey writes...

50% market penetration says that Bigpond ADSL2+ plans are not overpriced.

No, it doesn't show that. It shows that they have a large monopoly - with Bigpond ADSL2 being the only choice in many areas.

Confusedman writes...

I notice how its MAINLY users from Internode always complain about bigpond, wonder why ?

...Because we know that Telstra charges through the roof prices?

Simple IF Bigpond ADSL2+ is too much for you, no one is forcing you to use it

Look up the definition of "monopoly".

they have a free reign in ADSL 2+ , to compete with Telstra

Do you know how expensive it is to duplicate a network when it wouldn't be necessary if Telstra just co-operated?

Lonsdale writes...

Now to be fair, lets compare with other ISP.

Bigpond - which i assumed u know about this already as u mentioned that u worked for bigpond before

Here we go. We'll compare Bigpond against Internode, then? (Not because I'm a fanboy, just because I can speak of my experience with them):

- 24 months contract.

What is good about a 24 month contract? Internode has 3 month contracts, I think.

- Free modem

Works out extremely pricey.

- 24/7 tech support

*Almost* 24/7 tech support, and Internode's tech support definitely know what they're talking about and how to treat a customer with respect.

- 9-12 months half price

You can't use that as an argument.

- combined with land line = $10 off.

Unfortunately, other ISPs can't offer this because they don't have a monopoly on land line phone services, although many ISPs offer cheaper VoIP to customers.

- No connection fee.

Depends what plan you are on.

- GameArena - if not the biggest gaming server in australia, they will one of top 3.

Internode has their own gaming network

- They have shit lots of any kind of file that you can download for free.

www.internode.on.net/res...nmetered_content

OfTheWorldTV, Lots of internet radio stations, Internode Games Network, Steam Content Server, Internode Download Mirror (which has TBs of content) and MajorGeeks Mirror

No other ISP provided all that.

I'm pretty sure I can say Internode does, as do many other ISPs.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

I'm pretty sure I can say Internode does, as do many other ISPs.

3 points where interode doesn't

- Free modem
- 24/7 tech support
- half prices (first 9 to 12 months)

But yea their ADSL2 cost more cause its offered in more areas.

Internode has 3 month contracts, I think.
"Just a $65 early cancellation charge during the first twelve months"

Like I said, you can't compare bundled to unbundled. That's just unfair.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

Look up the definition of "monopoly".

There are other ADSL 2+ Networks such as Optus , agile etc so i dont know why you are saying monopoly, when Adsl 2+ isnt force through Telstra

I heard they had reasonable prices but ACCC screamed at them because they were being competitive so they raised their costs.

That was a long time ago. I am still with Bigpond, after my contract was expired last year. I have not bothered to change as I don't see much to save. Only $20 more. Meh.

Haha everyone is saying the same thing. "No one is forcing you to get ADSL2+..."

Don't worry mate, I feel your pain.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

Internode has 3 month contracts, I think.

12mth exit fee, you arent sure yet crap on how good it is?

Works out extremely pricey.

as does paying for one

*Almost* 24/7 tech support, and Internode's tech support definitely know what they're talking about and how to treat a customer with respect

well that is debatable depending on who is complaining

Internode has their own gaming network

so do bigpond

OfTheWorldTV, Lots of internet radio stations, Internode Games Network, Steam Content Server, Internode Download Mirror (which has TBs of content) and MajorGeeks Mirror

bigpond unmetered ditto

Confusedman writes...

Simple IF Bigpond ADSL2+ is too much for you, no one is forcing you to use it

Correct

because its not Telstra's fault the competitors aren't there.

Yes and No on that one

Should be complaining to Optus and Internode, etc to supply there own ADSL2+,

Most other providers only cherry pick the best exchanges that they can make the money money on

Do you know how expensive it is to duplicate a network when it wouldn't be necessary if Telstra just co-operated?

and what it doesn't cost a lot to be the first to install a network either?????????

so you want Telstra to make the major investment and for others to get a free ride then???????

This thread is LOL.

Can you please explain "Free Ride"?

"Free Ride" means that there is no investment at all by a second party. When any ISP want to install their own ADSL2+ equipment in an exchange there is a SUBSTANTIAL monetary cost to this ISP and the majority of this money is going to Telstra. ISP's are getting absolutely nothing for "Free" when they deciede to put infrastructure in an Exchange.

It is a well known FACT that Tel$tra's ADSL/ADSL2+ plans are not competitive in Price and services when compared to any third party ISP. Just look at broadband choice, try and find an example, anywhere, where there IS competing ADSL2+ infrastructure installed by a 3rd Party ISP to compete with Bigpond and Bigpond is the better option? It doesn't exist.

You are all well within your rights to use which ever ISP you want and no one will begrudge you that. But to loudly proclaim that Bigpond are the epitome of value and service in Australian broadband is just Laughable.

EvolutionOnline writes...

I'm sorry you don't find the BigPond plans are in your price range - but I'm sure there's millions of other customers who find their plans and everything extra they offer to be great value!

The only people that would find these plans to their liking are either on day leave from a mental institution, or have no idea what is available in the rest of the world. www.tiscali.co.uk/produc...;srccode=COD_609 Until Australia which means Telstra can offer plans like these broadband pricing,speeds and service are seen as a joke and it will continue to be called fraudband Telstra can not justify its pricing when its wholesale customers are selling cheaper we ARE being ripped off and its about time something was done about Australians being robbed on a daily basis SHAME Telstra shame.

Telstra Bigpond ADSL2+ = Inflated prices =same as competitors product with less d/l allowance = Higher $ for less value = Australia's backward stance on Broadband = ONE MAJOR RIP-OFF....

Unfortunately or fortunately there are people out there who actually buy this service...

kai999 writes...

www.tiscali.co.uk/produc...;srccode=COD_609 Until Australia which means Telstra can offer plans like these broadband pricing,speeds and service are seen as a joke and it will continue to be called fraudband Telstra can not justify its pricing when its wholesale customers are selling cheaper we ARE being ripped off and its about time something was done about Australians being robbed on a daily basis SHAME Telstra shame.

That is simply moronic comparing the UK deals to Australian deals. Do you have any concept of the different infrastructure?

Look at the difference in density figures for a starters...
UK - 246/km² (48th) 637/sq mi
Aust - 2.6/km² (224th)6.7/sq mi

Confusedman writes...

when Adsl 2+ isnt force through Telstra

In many areas, it is.

drahcir writes...

12mth exit fee, you arent sure yet crap on how good it is?

I'm sure there was a 3 or 6 month contract option, but at least they don't lock you into 24 or 48 month contracts.

so do bigpond
bigpond unmetered ditto

Are we going to go around in an infinite loop? I was replying to someone who said Bigpond was the only ISP that offers that, to prove them wrong.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

I'm sure there was a 3 or 6 month contract option

so you dont actually know?

48 month con

neither do bigpond

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

In many areas, it is

since when has anyone ever been forced to use ads2?

drahcir writes...

neither do bigpond

Take a look.

drahcir writes...

since when has anyone ever been forced to use ads2?

I never said anyone has - I merely said that Telstra has a monopoly on ADSL2+ in many areas.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

I merely said that Telstra has a monopoly on ADSL2+ in many areas.

The competitors refuse to go there, thats not a monopoly it shows Telstra is the only one willing to offer ADSL2+

Confusedman writes...

The competitors refuse to go there

How many times do I have to tell you? Competitors ARE NOT refusing. Look at Optus, they're upgrading 3G all over Australia.

thats not a monopoly it shows Telstra is the only one willing to offer ADSL2+

No, it IS a monopoly. Telstra has a monopoly on the whole network. Once again, why waste money duplicating a network for absolutely no reason?

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

Take a look.

bigpond do not have 48mth contracts

how bout you do some research, you seem to be all about i think, i thought and really know nothing

drahcir writes...

bigpond do not have 48mth contracts

Sorry, meant 24 month contracts, suddenly got confused.

how bout you do some research, you seem to be all about i think, i thought and really know nothing

No need to be all defensive, alright?

Confusedman writes...

Should be complaining to Optus and Internode, etc to supply there own ADSL2+, they have a free reign in ADSL 2+ , to compete with Telstra

Which they never will. Their is nothing stopping them rolling out their own network. They just don't want to spend the money

Which they never will. Their is nothing stopping them rolling out their own network.

And when your ISP goes bust, because nobody bought into the service, and nobody could afford the subsequent costs of it's broadband offerings, what would you do?

Telstra does have a monopoly, and you can't say they are the only ISP willing to offer it. Telstra as a private company did jack-all to get broadband infrastructure in Austalia. When the governement had a fair share in the damned company, they put plans on the table, and funding, for better services (ADSL).

Telstra subsequently only allowing it's subsiadary, BigPond, have preferrential access to this national broadband network shows just how greedy Telstra is.

What's more, their method of sales, with switch and bait, and being the only ADSL2+ service provider where I am, makes me completely unhappy. I might even jump back on that broken down boat called BigPond, simply because the speed is needed.

The astronomical pricing, crap customer service, low data allowances for a reasonable amount, and the counted uploads really makes me think twice, though.

I'm never wasting a cent on Bigpond ever again. I remember paying $200 per month for ADSL1 on a 512k plan because I kept exceeding my monthly quota. This was when ADSL was first introduced. I was a jerk for signing up to their 24 month contract.

So this is my story....
I can only get ADSL+2 with Bigpond in my area.
I have my home phone with Telstra and could bundle services, I even work for Sensis which also entitles me to 15% off Bigpond Broadband services. But I still, wouldnt go signing up to Bigpond ADSL+2.

I'll just wait until the rest of the other companies like Optus/Internode/Tpg role out the services in the outer suburbs I dont want to suffer again.

- Bigpond Customer Service is nonsense
(Cant get billing done correctly) if there is a Technical Difficulty with Internode they provide a Dial Up Service and I check up whats wrong on Internode/Whirpool forums.
- ADSL+2 is overpriced compared to other companies
- Who cares about Game Arena I'm with Internode, the Games Network is enough for me.
- Bigpond ADSL+2 is a great option if you cant be bothered doing your research and waiting for the service to be rolled out to your area.

I just dont know who in their right mind would give any credit to Bigpond in any way or form. If you do, your opinions are completely useless to address these concerns.

Brad Amm writes...

Which they never will. Their is nothing stopping them rolling out their own network. They just don't want to spend the money

Like Telstra rolled out their own?

If other companies were given handouts, I'm sure they would build it.

Telstra being privately owned has nothing to do with them rolling out their own network... Sure, shareholders paid for that in the end, but it doesn't stop the fact that telstra didn't initially roll out their own network, it was paid for by the govt, and now owned by millions of australians.

Whats wrong with Telstra leasing the network at reasonable prices? The amount Telstra want to charge would mean a customer on Telstra leased backhaul would mean each customer has to pay $3000 a month... And that my friend is why other ISP's can not roll out ADSL2+ in those areas.

Bigpond is good value for the 24mths that you are connected to them. After that, you would be insane to stay, unless they can do the same deal again.

Confusedman writes...

Should be complaining to Optus and Internode, etc to supply there own ADSL2+, they have a free reign in ADSL 2+ , to compete with Telstra

i dont think that statement is wholly correct. I have worked for Optus and Telstra / Bigpond and currently am involved with IT and telecoms... if a person is able to have a choice between plans this is good... but if there is only one provider in an area (for either financial or LEGAL reasons, do your homework people) then its hardly the customer's fault for feeling defrauded by a higher-than-standard price simply because the ISP can charge it.

anyway, thats life these days isnt it. find the loophole, major companies hire lawyers, you need to as well.

chunderman writes...

...

The astronomical pricing, crap customer service, low data allowances for a reasonable amount, and the counted uploads really makes me think twice, though.

Totally agree with everything you just said in that post. You got a :D

snakeskin8 writes...

Look at the difference in density figures for a starters...
UK - 246/km² (48th) 637/sq mi
Aust - 2.6/km² (224th)6.7/sq mi

Yes I do and but if you charge each household 30 bucks a month for line rental and like at my house have 20 year old wiring and you just keep pocketing the money and whine about the size of the country as an excuse for sitting on your hands and doing nothing. OK you think pop density is different in the UK how does Canada manage to give unlimited plans for about half what we pay and they have similar geographic and density issues to us. Face it we are being ripped off! The government shouldn't have to force a company with the monopoly & profits of Telstra to provide infrastructure. If we want I.T businesses that rely on cheap reliable data transfer not to all move overseas we all need to get vocal about the crappy service telstra are providing. The board of Telstra should have their pay tied to performance like the average working man and maybe things would improve. But as long as people are happy with being way down with 3rd world countries and shut up and cop it sweet NOTHING is going to change. this page says it all www.zdnet.com.au/news/co...339280104,00.htm

hi
what do other countries charge??
someone told me japan's minium is 50 times faster and they charges 2/3 less
is that true regards rolly

chunderman writes...

Telstra does have a monopoly

The accc disagrees in ADSL 2+, hence no regulation on ADSL 2+

ACCC says nothing stopping the competitors from using their own adsl 2+ network.

Hence no monopoly in ADSL 2+, so where is the competition?

SaBiH writes...

I do not understand why Telstra Bigpond continue to charge more money for their ADSL 2+ product when other providers actually charge less for their own ADSL 2+ products.

I do not understand why people continually do not understand that some companies charge more for a product than others. Where is the conspiracy here???

Is this not why we have such tools as StaticIce and WP Plan Selector?

Some people will just never get it.

Seems to me Telstra are exploiting the fact that they offer adsl2+ in many more exchanges than any other ISP. They also exploit the uneducated broadband users. I mean they have a 600MB adsl2+ plan for $59.95 per month, but then charge $150/GB over the limit. That is just ridiculous. Other ISP's over 20GB shaped plans for the same price.

Lukeb1987 writes...

Would you complain if the price of petrol at a particular petrol station was significantly more than the majority of others that for some reason you had limited access to?

When it's cheap, it's watered down. There is one near my house thats always like $1.20-$1.35 when BP, Shell and Caltex will be $1.40-$1.50.

I wouldn't want my petrol watered down, or my InternetZ for that matter.

Face it, Telstra is run by a greedy schmuk of a yank - Sol Trujillo.

Everyone knows Telstra is a rip off and will always be while that spawn of satan is running the show. No amount of complaining to Telstra will change that.

Only weapon we have against Telstra is word of mouth. Spread the word to not use Telstra. Simple.

InfinityChaos writes...

Spread the word to not use Telstra. Simple.
Face it, Telstra is run by a greedy schmuk of a yank - Sol Trujillo.

Only weapon we have against Telstra is word of mouth. Spread the word to not use Telstra. Simple.

yet you use them

how bout you practice what you preach or is losing your cable to much to bear?

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

How many times do I have to tell you? Competitors ARE NOT refusing. Look at Optus, they're upgrading 3G all over Australia.

The last mobile carrier in the country to do so. Telstra, Voda and Hutch all anounced their 3G rollouts/builds before Optus.

No, it IS a monopoly. Telstra has a monopoly on the whole network. Once again, why waste money duplicating a network for absolutely no reason?

Yet ISP's are willing to roll out ADSL2+ in some areas (where the money is), but not others (even though Telstra has already done so) ? I would be asking why aren't they even willing to compete ? Is it because they wouldn't get the ROI that they want ?

OK, before I get shot down, I realise that Telstra is making it hard for the ISP's to compete in these areas for the exact reason that Telstra don't want competition as they risk losing business.

Urgit writes...

Yet ISP's are willing to roll out ADSL2+ in some areas (where the money is), but not others (even though Telstra has already done so) ?

Correct. But Telstra didn't pay for the network themselves, completely.

Is it because they wouldn't get the ROI that they want ?

Not what they want, but what they need. If you roll out a new network in a place where there is only 50 customers, the ISP would charge higher prices, and probably lose business.

I bet if Internode or iiNet had as much government assistance as Telstra, their network would have been 10 times better, and not delayed every bit of technical work to exchanges. People like Simon Hackett believe that competition is needed to keep the network at it's best, and to give everyone a fair go.

Telstra don't want competition as they risk losing business.

And boy would they lose business if other ISPs had access to the Telstra network. I believe that Telstra is limiting the growth of broadband in Australia. In fact, it is evident to the point that they don't even wholesale the network that they hardly paid for.

Look at other countries, like the USA and the UK. Look at their cheap brodband prices. Look at the business model's they have. Look how successful, yet simple they are. Telstra making it difficult for any ISP in Australia to put their own equipment in exchanges should make you Telstra/BigPond fanbois realise what they are doing.

I still despise them, and always will.

yet you use them

I'm with IInet...I just havn't updated my Whirlpool details.

chunderman writes...

50 customers, the ISP would charge higher prices, and probably lose business.

so they dont , how is that telstras fault?

But Telstra didn't pay for the network themselves, compl

really?

I bet if Internode or iiNet had as much government assistance as Telstra, their network would have been 10 times better

well if its 10 times better then that just proves it now doesnt it

People like Simon Hackett believe that competition is needed to keep the network at it's best, and to give everyone a fair go

yeah of course it not about making money at all now is it

And boy would they lose business if other ISPs had access to the Telstra network

the important thing to remember there is it is Telstras network

I believe that Telstra is limiting the growth of broadband in Australia

well i'm convinced then

In fact, it is evident to the point that they don't even wholesale the network that they hardly paid for.

they do actually

make you Telstra/BigPond fanbois realise what they are doing.

supplying me a good service

chunderman writes...

If you roll out a new network in a place where there is only 50 customers, the ISP would charge higher prices

</thread>

Look at other countries, like the USA and the UK. Look at their cheap brodband prices

Looks at how slow they are (i'm talking about what the real retail people can get, not the 0.00001% that can get super high speed cause they related to the owner)

Telus offer "Download speed Up to 6.0 Mbps"

AT&T High Speed Internet Elite
Downstream Speed: Up to 6.0 Mbps
Upstream Speed: Up to 768 Kbps
IP Address: 1 Dynamic

chunderman writes...

Correct. But Telstra didn't pay for the network themselves, completely.

No, not completely, but does anyone complain about the privatised gas, water & electricity companies that were also "gifted" their networks ?

chunderman writes...

Not what they want, but what they need.

Isn't that Telstra's agrument for their pricing on the FTTN (or NBN or whatever you want to call it) ?

I bet if Internode or iiNet had as much government assistance as Telstra, their network would have been 10 times better

Can you further define this Government assistance ? Or do you refer to the "gifting" of the original PSTN network ?

People like Simon Hackett believe that competition is needed to keep the network at it's best, and to give everyone a fair go.

Couldn't agree more, hopefully competition makes it better for all of us.

Telstra making it difficult for any ISP in Australia to put their own equipment in exchanges

Not a lot of difference to Qantas & when Virgin Blue started up - Qantas didn't want to give them any terminal space. I can see the argument Telstra are using (no that I agree with it) - they own the exchange buildings etc, why would you want to let the competition in etc.

drahcir writes...

supplying me a good service

OMG! Obviously some people think BP gives good service other than the naive M&D's out there in Oz. There are some people in this thread who obviously understand the whole equation to Australian Broadband prices, and choose another ISP, others don't.

We laugh in the face of your ignorance. (not just the quoted, others that are defending BP in this thread. Good luck in life!)

It is a fact of life that we live on an island, most of our data comes from USA, and while most of us live on the coast (lucky buggers!), the network built by Oz taxpayers for the last 100 years (not a private company) has to cover a large area per head of population, unlike any other country in the world. (Ok then, Africa)

What some people don't realise (and it seems more prevalent in the major cities), is that broadband choice in regional areas (outside capitals) is limited, and sometimes the choice is only Bigpond. Other ISP's don't want to invest in these areas as the backhaul costs from the exchange back to their networks is too expensive. A cost, set by Telstra (not bigpond), which is what we are arguing is the monopoly. the monopoly continues, when other ISP's wish to add ADSL2+ DSLAMS into said exchanges, and Telstra use delay tactics to hamper ADSL2+ roll-out in this country.

To be nice about it, Telstra's tactics are appalling. The sooner there is complete organisational separation between Telstra and Bigpond, the better. I couldn't care less about Telstra shareholders (obviously shareholders would disagree), but ALL Australian's paid for that network. Obviously since the sale of part of that network, Telstra business and shareholders have expanded that network, but lets not forget who rolled out the entire network first.

/rant.

^^ Amen to that =D

MrWhite writes...

some people in this thread who obviously understand the whole equation to Australian Broadband prices, and choose another ISP, others don't.

Are these enlightened souls only those people who happen to agree with you?

Don't you feel you're being ever so slightly arrogant to presume your view is absolute fact?

is that broadband choice in regional areas (outside capitals) is limited

Yes, I am in a regional area, however, there happens to be significant bandwidth to other locations that is not Telstra provided, sadly, there is also not significant investment by other ISPs to take advantage of this presumed rightly priced (ie, you say, not from Telstra so guaranteed cheaper) access.

I'm sure every exchange in the region is not full either.

network built by Oz taxpayers for the last 100 years

How much of today's backbone was around 100 years ago, 50 years ago, even 10-20 years ago? Not sure they had fibre 100 years ago? How long will fibre last 20-30 years? How do you factor in the replacement costs?

InfinityChaos writes...

^^ Amen to that =D

Thanks buddy. I was going to write just one paragraph, but then these Bigpond bashers got me started.

ozbrad writes...

happen to agree with you?

Lol, are you implying something? :P Love it, where is that worm on the end of that fishing line ...

absolute fact?

I certainly wouldn't expect my view to be anything near that. However, after lurking and contributing to these forums, listening to other users and corporate staff from ISP's on these forums, some of these posts in the above thread wouldn't exist if they had read all the material available to them. Obviously I take users views with a grain of salt, however when an ISP representative tells it how it is, for them, then that's another story.

Not sure they had fibre 100 years ago?

I'm sure they didn't either, but where did that revenue stream come from in the first place?

MrWhite writes...

OMG

that in itself discredits the rest of your rant

but

Obviously some people think BP gives good service

know is the word i use

We laugh in the face of your ignorance

we wonder who the strange person laughing to themselves is, no i dont have any change or cigarettes

but ALL Australian's paid for that network

then sold it

but lets not forget who rolled out the entire network first.

the same people who sold it

drahcir writes...

then sold it

All of it? I'll leave you to work out what 51% means. Keep it up plebs.

Urgit writes...

The last mobile carrier in the country to do so. Telstra, Voda and Hutch all anounced their 3G rollouts/builds before Optus.

Are you sure Hutch and Vodafone all anounced theirs before Optus? It doesn't matter, really. Could mean Optus is more prepared.

All of it? I'll leave you to work out what 51% means. Keep it up plebs.

Its 2008 in 2006 the gov owned 51%, now its around 17%,

MrWhite writes...

then sold it

All of it? I'll leave you to work out what 51% means. Keep it up plebs

Can you please explain what the 51% comment means....
thanks

MrWhite writes...

All of it?

don't know where you get 51% from. All of Telstra has been sold. Heard of T3? or you still living in the past.

Someone did mention 17% but even that doesn't truely belong to the government. It is held by a government owned enterprise, but there is no restriction on what happens with that 17% and the government has no control over how the future fund deals with the 17%.

edit: some wity comment about plebs - you make it up

MrWhite writes...

the network built by Oz taxpayers for the last 100 years (not a private company) has to cover a large area per head of population,

which was purchased from the original owner at a market agreed price on the sharemarket.......

Other ISP's don't want to invest in these areas as the backhaul costs from the exchange back to their networks is too expensive

there is nothing stopping them from investing their own cash in building their own backhaul....

MrWhite writes...

I couldn't care less about Telstra shareholders (obviously shareholders would disagree), but ALL Australian's paid for that network.

and they have received payment for this assett that the government sold....

Obviously since the sale of part of that network, Telstra business and shareholders have expanded that network

you at least got that part right......

but lets not forget who rolled out the entire network first.

but didn't you just say that shareholders have expanded the network since the sale????

Urgit writes...

No, not completely, but does anyone complain about the privatised gas, water & electricity companies that were also "gifted" their networks

Ok there is a fundamental problem with this arguement.

The government paid for the "phone" network, Yes.
The government also SOLD the network with Telstra. The network was part of the deal. And lots of people paid the government lots of money to buy telstra including the network. It is not telstra's fault that the government sold out too cheap and created a bad situation.

Not that telstra are as pure as the driven snow. They have a lot to answer for.....

Confusedman writes...

Simple IF Bigpond ADSL2+ is too much for you, no one is forcing you to use it,

Then why is it that I can't get one of the internode ADSL2 services that are avaiable in my exchange but Bigpond will constantly offer to sell me a service

because its not Telstra's fault the competitors aren't there.

Well the competitors are there for me but somehow Telstra keeps rejecting a request to connect me.

don't like it writes...

I can't get one of the internode ADSL2 services that are avaiable in my exchange

perhaps you should ask internode

MrWhite writes...

All of it? I'll leave you to work out what 51% means. Keep it up plebs.

how are those comments working out for you?

MrWhite writes...

All of it? I'll leave you to work out what 51% means. Keep it up plebs.

Well don't you look silly now (to be fair your entire argument is silly - "rah I don't care about shareholders rah Tesltra is evil rah rah") - you really should talk in facts if you're going to insult people, champ.

How about this line rental 30$ that we all pay for? "Mostly second rate copper wire has not been replaced for decades" As long as people don't get angry about the shoddy service we are getting nothing is going to improve. "also how come everyone who sticks up for telstra uses the lame argument about density" Australia has large cities and if this was the only reason for our high prices how come cities like Sydney pay the same high prices? shouldn't they be similar to same size cities in the US UK and especially Canada with basically the same density overall.But hey if you Telstra sycophants are happy thats all that counts right! it doesn't matter if we are ranked 23 out of 30 countries rated on price per MB and most of those have done away with caps. If you don't believe me do a google search for broadband statistics or ratings.

kai999 writes...

How about this line rental 30$ that we all pay for?

Well if you were on Homeline Budget it would be $20.00! Your choice.

"Mostly second rate copper wire has not been replaced for decades"

You really have no idea do you? What about all the new estates, with massive growth. What about the the exchange and inter exchange network growth?

Australia has large cities and if this was the only reason for our high prices how come cities like Sydney pay the same high prices?

If your talking about telephone services, that is simply Government policy, look up USO.

If your talking about internet, that is each ISP's choice. But thankfully where ever an ISP DOES provide a service it is at generally the same price throughout the nation.

shouldn't they be similar to same size cities in the US UK and especially Canada with basically the same density overall.

Assuming you are talking about the internet now, density is one issue, but distance to the source data is an even bigger issue. The cost of international bandwidth is high because we are a long way from the data sites. (That pricing is not Telstra's)

If you don't believe me do a google search for broadband statistics or ratings.

That topic has been done to death on this site, so hold the google and do a search on this site.

Internobody writes...

Well if you were on Homeline Budget it would be $20.00! Your choice.

...which isn't available to people that are customers of another ISP for ADSL2+. How can you justify that?

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

...which isn't available to people that are customers of another ISP for ADSL2+. How can you justify that?

Although true, you can't get it with anyone for that price, whether you have internet with the said company or not.

Telstra charge wholesale customers more than 20 bucks a month for leasing the line, so having plans around the 26.95 mark is normal.

It stinks that Telstra are actually allowed to do that.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

which isn't available to people that are customers of another ISP for ADSL2+. How can you justify that?

Same as Optus not allowing other isp's to use adsl direct, but people are force to use Optus.They are allowed to do it, so why is Telstra ADSL 2+ different.

Bugzy1 writes...

It stinks that Telstra are actually allowed to do that.

Optus force people to use Optus only isp's, where Telstra network gives you a choice, so in fact Telstra is alot fairer then Optus

Bugzy1 writes...

Although true, you can't get it with anyone for that price, whether you have internet with the said company or not.

Of course, because Telstra holds a monopoly of the network.

It stinks that Telstra are actually allowed to do that.

Exactly.

Confusedman writes...

Same as Optus not allowing other isp's to use adsl direct, but people are force to use Optus.They are allowed to do it, so why is Telstra ADSL 2+ different.

...Optus does not have a monopoly.

Optus force people to use Optus only isp's, where Telstra network gives you a choice, so in fact Telstra is alot fairer then Optus

HA! When has Telstra given you a choice with ADSL2+? Of course they do with ADSL, and with Optus you need to find an ISP that purchases off Optus - it's not possible to have a non-Optus ISP on an Optus line, and it's not Optus' fault.

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

which isn't available to people that are customers of another ISP for ADSL2+. How can you justify that

why would they offer you a discount for being with someone else?

in fact justify why they should

do you guys get half price i do im on adsl2

Confusedman writes...

Optus force people to use Optus only isp's

What does that mean?

drahcir writes...

why would they offer you a discount for being with someone else?

I wouldn't say the ability to get Homeline Budget is a "discount", they're a business, they make money with higher call costs.

in fact justify why they should

Because it is a type of landline service that should be available to ANYONE who is a landline customer, regardless of which ISP they use (which is none of Telstra's business, really).

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

(which is none of Telstra's business, really).

Actually it is,The ones who have no business in Telstra's phone plans are the isp's .

☢Anonymous.☢ writes...

Because it is a type of landline service that should be available to ANYONE who is a landline customer, regardless of which ISP they us

Its the same as Internode voip, why is it cheaper for Internode customers, & dearer for non Internode customers, as you say landline is landline, same with voip.

Anyway thats the rules and Telstra are entitled to offer thier adsl2+ customers same as with other companies offer their customers benefits