Whirlpool

Hello Everyone,

I've been having some issues with downloading recently. Basically, after something "starts" downloading or streaming, there's a long pause before I see the progress of the download, or the playback of the stream. But, I think it may have something to do with getting used to ADSL2+.

Anyways, looking into this problem of mine, I may have read somewhere that iiNet NakedDSL is supposed to be PPPoE. Right now I'm using PPPoA, and I can't seem to configure my Billion 7401 VGP-M to connect to iiNet as PPPoE. Honestly I don't know what the difference is, but maybe it can solve my little problem.

Anyways, anyone know what's up?
Kind Regards,
Jos

Josephs writes...

Anyways, looking into this problem of mine, I may have read somewhere that iiNet NakedDSL is supposed to be PPPoE. Right now I'm using PPPoA,

Why don't you try PPPoE and see if it fixes the problem???

PPPoA has less overheads and is faster.

Ive used both protocals and prefer PPPoA.

PPPoA MTU = 1500
PPPoE MTU = 1492

d00dz writes...

Ive used both protocals and prefer PPPoA.

Which protocals did you use?

Which one had less dissconnectans?

Bill E writes...

Why don't you try PPPoE and see if it fixes the problem???
Yeah, I've tried connecting with PPPoE and it won't connect. I can only get PPPoA to work.

Josephs writes...

... there's a long pause before I see the progress of the download, or the playback of the stream.
Does this sound unusual to anyone?

Josephs writes...

I can only get PPPoA to work.

I'm also using PPPoA but no problem with downloads.

Josephs writes...

Hello Everyone,

I've been having some issues with downloading recently. Basically, after something "starts" downloading or streaming, there's a long pause before I see the progress of the download, or the playback of the stream. But, I think it may have something to do with getting used to ADSL2+.

Please check your primary and secondary DNS settings. Sounds like you have an incorrect primary DNS server, times out then your PC tries the secondary DNS server configured in your TCP/IP stack. That's my guess. :-)

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Which protocals did you use?

Which one had less dissconnectans?

I use PPPoA LLC (I think, not sure if it's LLC or Mux). The the connections/lack of dont matter which protocol I use.

Both connections stay up for pretty long 20-30days before I get capped. Though I did notice a BIG difference when changing modems. I went from a shitty Linsys WAG54G to a Billion 7404VGPM. Billion one is much more stablier and less disconnections. Faster speed sync too!

d00dz writes...

I use PPPoA LLC (I think,

dude, I mean doodz. the guy is having a go at you. And I have to say he's got some audacity bearing in mind it's coming from someone who doesn't know the difference between then and than. :)

Piggy. writes...

dude, I mean doodz. the guy is having a go at you. And I have to say he's got some audacity bearing in mind it's coming from someone who doesn't know the difference between then and than. :)

ohh right.. and I call telll... *rolleyes*

Thanks for clarifying.

Interestingly iinet's support page only mentions PPPoE, I guess that must be what they recommend:

ADSL connection settings

* Connection Type - PPPoE LLC
* Authentication Module/Security Protocol - PAP
* VPI - 8
* VCI - 35
* Handshake Protocol/Modulation - G.DMT (ADSL1 modems) Multimode/ADSL2 (ADSL2 modems)

iinet.net.au/support/bro...tings/index.html

d00dz writes...

PPPoA has less overheads and is faster.

That's right. Unfortunately, DynDNS on Belkin 4PW doesn't work when in PPPoA mode. :(

Musk writes...

Interestingly iinet's support page only mentions PPPoE, I guess that must be what they recommend
Yeah this is why I'm asking. It's strange how I can't connect to iiNet using PPPoE yet they recommend it.

d00dz writes...

I use PPPoA LLC
iiNet recommends PPPoE LLC.
Besides your ATM class, what does LLC Headers actually do?

d00dz writes...

PPPoA MTU = 1500
PPPoE MTU = 1492
I'm connecting with the PPPoA ATM, and every time I set my MTU to 1500, it somehow sets itself to 1492?

Qube³ writes...

Please check your primary and secondary DNS settings
Primary DNS:
203.0.178.191

Secondary DNS:
203.215.29.191

Is this correct?

Josephs writes...

Yeah this is why I'm asking. It's strange how I can't connect to iiNet using PPPoE yet they recommend it.

It is a known issue. I have the exact same modem you have and I have no problems with PPPoE. Some people have trouble with negotiating a PPPoE type session since the workaround is to go PPPoA that is what is usually advised. You could try another modem type or update/downgrade the firmware and test again. I assume it is something simple to resolve.

I'm connecting with the PPPoA ATM, and every time I set my MTU to 1500, it somehow sets itself to 1492?

The modem probably has a maximum value of 1492. Which is sensible. Even though both can support the maximum Ethernet 1500 default it is generally isn't smart to use it.

Just keep playing with it. PPPoE/A is doesn't make much of a difference. Making your sync speed faster is more important then the MTU.

Josephs writes...

I'm connecting with the PPPoA ATM, and every time I set my MTU to 1500, it somehow sets itself to 1492?

Assuming you are using a Billion, you have to manually change that value and save that page before connecting in PPPoA or PPPoE mode. Once this is set then hit connect to your DSLAM in your modem setup page.

Primary DNS:
203.0.178.191

Secondary DNS:
203.215.29.191

Is this correct?
Yes.

Stick with PPPoE. :)

d00dz writes...

PPPoA has less overheads and is faster.

Ive used both protocals and prefer PPPoA.

PPPoA MTU = 1500
PPPoE MTU = 1492

I also prefer PPPoA - there were a few times i had authentication issues with PPPoE, but never with PPPoA. However i thought that the maximum optimum PPPoA MTU on an iiNet DSLAM was 1492. Can anyone else confirm that?

Managed to connect to iiNet with PPPoE.
Turns out I had trouble connecting with the LLC Headers option turned on. Which is strange, because iiNet specify PPPoE LLC.

Regardless of my feat, it has not fixed my download problem. Perhaps this pause is just an ADSL/2+ thing?

--

Could anyone with knowledge of the 7401VGP-M help explain a few things too me. There are options which may be effecting my connection, and I'm uncertain what they could do.

WAN > ISP:
TCP MSS Clamp ?

WAN > ADSL:
Profile Type ? ... Telstra?
Tx Attenuation ? ... Bis_0DB?
Capability ? ... BIS+/BIS/GDMT?

Advanced:
Static Route ?
IGMP Forwarding ?
IGMP Snooping ?
VLAN Bridge ?

--

Does anyone use the Firewall? Or is ISP NAT good enough?

Does VoIP effect connection quality? What are Dial Plans?

Josephs writes...

Regardless of my feat, it has not fixed my download problem. Perhaps this pause is just an ADSL/2+ thing?

As I said in my post before sync speed is more important.

Post your sync values and line stats into this thread.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Post your sync values and line stats into this thread.

SNR Margin
8.0 dB - 10.0 dB

Line Attenuation
14.0 dB - 9.5 dB

Josephs writes...

SNR Margin
8.0 dB - 10.0 dB

Line Attenuation
14.0 dB - 9.5 dB

Those are SNR and attenuation values. Which constitute the line condition portion of the info but more importantly you need to post the result which is sync.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

... you need to post the result which is sync.

I'm really sorry, but I'm not sure where I can find those values. Maybe someone can tell me how?

Otherwise, all I can really see is;

VPI/VCI: 8/35
Upstream: 985200
Downstream: 21837700

Connect Mode: ADSL2+, auto fallback
Modulation: G.Dmt.BisPlusAuto
Profile Type: TELSTRA
Activate Line: true
Coding Gain: 7

Tx Attenuation: Bis_0DB
Operational Mode: G.Dmt.BisPlus
Annex Type: ADSL2A

Josephs writes...

Upstream: 985200
Downstream: 21837700

Thats it.

Man you have a great connection.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Man you have a great connection.

LOL.

Cheers.

--

To reiterate my problem;
I will download a file from a server, and immediately after "starting" the download, there is a long pause before any progress or information is provided. Such as an estimated time remaining, download percentage, or a current download speed.

The progress just seems blank.
Then, after a minute or two, the information will start blasting through, and I'll be downloading the file at +2000kb/s speeds, and somehow be 30% completed (example).

(Traditionally, straight from the start, you begin downloading a file from 0% @ xxxx kb/s and watch it go through to 100%.)

It's really annoying.
Because if you put this in a streaming context, such as watching a youtube movie, there's a long pause before playback of the movie begins, and then all of a sudden the progress bar fills up red (downloaded/buffered), and I can watch the whole movie. Problem is, most movies are crap. And instead of actually streaming the movie, it's downloaded all of it while I was waiting in this pause.

--

If you think I have good speeds, then perhaps my internet is on steroids, and it's muscles are bursting, causing the download servers to react like this?

Josephs writes...

The progress just seems blank.
Then, after a minute or two, the information will start blasting through, and I'll be downloading the file at +2000kb/s speeds.

Get rid of the browser or reinstall it.

Also you might benefit from putting your DNS straight into your TCP settings on the TCP settings on your NIC instead of relying on the dns issued through DHCP.

It just might be lag with DNS or application specific.

Installing a new browser or changing DNS mi8ght help.

You might also want to disable any internet security/anti spyware/whatever smart internet protection products you are using.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Also you might benefit from putting your DNS straight into your TCP settings on the TCP settings on your NIC instead of relying on the dns issued through DHCP.

Can you please simplify this for me?
I haven't tried this yet, and it sounds hopeful, but I don't quite follow.

Also, would having Wireless enabled perhaps cause my problem?

I have wireless enabled with WPA2, purely for my Playstation3. Other then that, I'm suspicious about having a VoIP phone connected to my modem, and also those other settings in my modem, like Prioritization, Throttling, Firewalls and Virtual Servers. Even though I haven't really played with their default values.

On the modem, I've set the DHCP to act as a server - and I've provided my MAC address to be a "Fixed Host". I did this primarily because of past experience, creating port-forwarding rules and such like. If it's not necessary, then I suppose I could reset it.

Josephs writes...

Can you please simplify this for me?

Not really. Root about with the properties of network adapter.

Also, would having Wireless enabled perhaps cause my problem?

Yeah well your wireless is probably slower then your internet so you probably have a bottleneck. I mean wireless is prone to slowness and low data transfer speeds. I can't really advise anything except a wired connection for testing purposes.

and also those other settings in my modem, like Prioritization, Throttling, Firewalls and Virtual Servers. Even though I haven't really played with their default values.

Yeah wait till your little more proficient at all this before playing with these. Except maybe Virtual Servers which you will need for port forwarding.

If it's not necessary, then I suppose I could reset it.

No keep the DHCP just superceed it by manually entering the settings on your client machine.

Is this Vista by any chance? Have you tried multiple machines?

Besides all this, I suppose the real test regards how other devices interact with the router. Obviously if other devices have a similar problem with downloads, then I shouldn't have to modify my networking card specifically, and instead modify the router or connection.

But ..

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Root about with the properties of network adapter.

What are the necessities for a standard networking port?
Is TCP/IPv6, LMHOSTS or NetBIOS even used?

Besides standard Windows preferences, my networking card has alot of properties regarding it's configuration, such as;

Flow Control
Interupt Moderation
Checksum Offload (IPv4/TCP/UDP)
Priority & VLAN
Max IRQ/s

Josephs writes...

Besides standard Windows preferences, my networking card has alot of properties regarding it's configuration, such as;

All you need to do is set the DNS manually in the TCP properties of whatever you are using as the network adapter that will do.

Just change it to manually assigned and whatever iiNet say it is supposed to be on their website.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

All you need to do is set the DNS manually in the TCP properties of whatever you are using as the network adapter that will do.

Yes, I just tried that.
I can't say it did much. But I haven't tried restarting my computer - should that even help ..

andrew.a writes...

Is this Vista by any chance?

YES. :D

andrew.a writes...

Is this Vista by any chance?

Josephs writes...

YES. :D

** silence ** ... ;)

Sorry for the bump --

Thought I'd mention I've dual-booted into Windows XP, and my internet connection works fine. I'm cross-referecing my Firefox profile from Vista to XP, and Firefox works fine.

Something in Vista is flapping with my internet connection.

Try turning window auto-tuning off (in vista):
www.kombitz.com/2007/02/...ista-auto-tuning

Also, you stated in an earlier post about TCP MSS Clamping. This is necessary as PPPoE uses frame sizes of 1492 bytes, as opposed to ethernet's 1500 bytes, MSS will cause the router to take this into account and adjust data packets as necessary. Trying to push 1500 byte packets through a PPPoE tunnel may have something to do with the download behaviour you're experiencing. However if you had the same problem with PPPoA it's likely this isn't the culprit.

Ok, this might sound strange;

But I am using Windows XP at the moment, and like Vista, I'm using Kaspersky Internet Security 7.0 as my system security module.

When I load a YouTube movie with KIS7 running (in the tray), the YouTube movie takes forever to load (which is my problem). When I disable KIS7 (end the process), the youtube movie has immediate playback. I've tested this several times, and on XP, I'm narrowing the problem down to Kaspersky.

I'll boot into Vista now, to test this theory.

Perhaps the firewall is limiting the rate at which outgoing connections can be made? (syn rate), maybe there is something in the configuration about that? The loading of all the images on a page, then the flash video file might set it off? Do you notice any similar problems with sites that have a lot of images or is it just downloads/videos?

Josephs writes...

I'll boot into Vista now, to test this theory.

Cause was Kaspersky Internet Security 7.0.0.125, on both Windows XP and Windows Vista. I'm not certain why Kaspersky is causing this, but I am certain disabling Kaspersky solves my problem.

Josephs writes...

I'm using Kaspersky Internet Security 7.0 as my system security module.

God I hate these things. You never actually KNOW what they are doing. Only that they don't do things when you shut them off.

Personally I only run antivirus and check regularly with spybot.

I find those internet security things have bizzare processes that pretty much mess with everything.

Josephs writes...

I'm not certain why Kaspersky is causing this ...

Rockfish writes...

Perhaps the firewall is limiting the rate at which outgoing connections can be made?

The problem was:
In Kaspersky Internet Security 7.0.0.125, under the protection category; "Web Anti-Virus", the "Security Level" was set to "Maximum Protection". It scans HTTP traffic, where the buffering time is 60 Seconds!!! Just like my problem.

The "Recommended" security level scans HTTP traffic for 1 Second! Relieving me of this 60 second pause (while kaspersky scaned the traffic for viruses)!!

Guys, Embarrassing to say the least.

Thanks for all the help! Great community :)

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

You might also want to disable any internet security/anti spyware/whatever smart internet protection products you are using.

I called it, you all saw it.

I win the game of internets.