I'm in the process of setting up a small home office for my existing business. Wanting to set up a VOIP multi-line system, but getting awfully confused. Here are my (current, tentative) requirements:

3 VOIP lines - 2 telephone, 1 fax
Fallback to PSTN in case of powercut, ISP out of service (probably setting up ADSL2+ w. TPG) Will be getting a new line installed.
Ability to answer either VOIP line on any phone, and PSTN line (ie, I think a PBX will be needed).
Don't necessarily want to be locked into one VOIP provider - though WorldDialPoint seems to have the features I need (any feedback?).
Although I probably need 3 DID numbers, will probably set up incoming calls to come in through PSTN line and divert to VOIP lines.

In terms of equipment, looking at SPA9000, (plus SPA400?), plus ASDL2 modem (or could use modem to be supplied by TPG). Suggestions? What do I need to achieve my system - or alternatives?

I have a moderate level of computer experience, but am no geek, so solutions like Asterix are probably not for me. Am also thinking that I will need help in setting the system up once I have purchased the bits, so any VOIP experts for hire in eastern Melbourne?

I need a reliable system, happy to spend what's needed to achieve that, but not unlimited funds!

What do I need for the complete setup, or is there a better way to do it?

Since you want reliability and ease of use, my advice to you is to stay away from the SPA9000. We have one at our office and it's been nothing but trouble from the very beginning. We are in the process of changing over to Elastix.

Looks like WDP can do hosted for you or recommend Talkswitch as an alternative, why not give them a call, they have all Linksys on their site except the SPA9000!

Probably the simplest solution available in terms of setting up and self management would be www.talkswitch.com.au.

In terms of VoIP lines think multiple channels. With the right provider you would only need 1 account that would allow multiple incoming and outgoing calls so you would only need the one phone number. This is unless you want to have individual direct incoming numbers.

The TalkSwitch has been tested and approved for use with WDP.

Moving on there is Epygi systems which are more difficult to self manage and Asterisk base systems with their GUI's would be be easier than that of Epygi.

To get everything working correctly a modem/router with QoS would be preferred if sharing your internet connection with Voice and Data. You may also require a switch depending on the number of network devices that needed to be connected together.

Damien.

Yes, I have noticed that the SPA9000 doesn't seem to attract universal love. Good suggestion to talk to WDP, though I want to get some independent advice first before I start talking to the providers too.

Although I'm finding it hard to find definitive information on the Talkswitch equipment, am I right in thinking just a basic PBX would be running at somewhere around $1200? To be honest, that is a lot more than I was expecting, and is maybe overkill for a small office, particularly when the other costs are added in.

Have a look at what you are going to get for the price difference, VOIP means a lot more than just call savings for a small business. Also dont forget that as a business its all tax deductable and you can claim GST input, the difference between $1200 and $600 is not much after these are taken into account, if you rent the hardware is a few dollars a week!

This is a learning experience for me, and in the end I know that there's no point in trying to save a few bucks if I don't get what I need - but that's what I'm trying to find out.

An SPA9000 plus SP400, plus a couple of handsets adds up to around $900 (not including the ADSL modem) - which seems OK value (disregarding the questions of whether it will actually work), although still a major step up in cost from say a PAP2 and a handset. What I am saying is that the costs seem to escalate dramatically for not very much more...

I can see a Talkswitch system coming in at around $2000 all up (just guessing), which seems a big premium to pay for what is a very simple setup. Maybe that really is the case, and if so I obviously just have to accept that. I'm just surprised that the options seem to be so limited - Linksys or Talkswitch or hosted system.

I would have thought that my situation is very common, and that there would be a huge market, but either I'm an early adopter, or much more of a niche market than I thought!

Why not go simple.

SPA3102 for the PSTN failover (FXO) and 1 FXS port for a standard analogue handset (when no power) and there are a couple of alternatives for the rest.
1. VOIP phones e.g. Linksys SPA922 directly, or
2. a PAP2T for the fax and have a 2 line cordless from Uniden (7690) plus however many handsets connected to the other FXS port of the PAP2T

All the features you have requested, PSTN forwarding, dual line out including PSTN failover.

Other things to consider, if your business number is currently unknown use the VOIP provider as the initial inbound point rather than PSTN to VOIP forwarding.

kko writes...

What I am saying is that the costs seem to escalate dramatically for not very much more...

What you are getting for the extra money is business equipment and not home based equipment. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and from contacts that I have had from people, what I have read about and some minor dealing with them the SPA9000 and SPA400 and some minor dealing with them as a combination that they spend much more than $1000 in equivalent set up time compared to other systems to get it to work and even then they say they have some issues.

Damien.

Barry, simple is good! That's certainly a very economical setup.

It's interesting that no-one has replied so far with a defence of the SPA9000.

Damien, I hear what you are saying... and looking at your excellent website, it looks like the Talkswitch 240vs would probably meet my needs, and costs a lot less than the $1200 I was thinking earlier.

My head is still spinning out of control, so all input is really appreciated.

Have a look at at the IP04. This may be a little too Geeky. Asterisk. However worth a look. I'm tempted myself, just for the play value, although will probably wait and see if it 'takes off. Note that it was developed in South Australia. Assume support is there for as long as the developer maintains his interest :)

www.rowetel.com/ucasterisk/store.html#ip04

EDIT: Total cost would be about $500
Note that you can configure with a mix of FXS and FXO ports
Assume that one could also load a Skype channel, if one
so desired

kko writes...

Damien, I hear what you are saying... and looking at your excellent website, it looks like the Talkswitch 240vs would probably meet my needs, and costs a lot less than the $1200 I was thinking earlier.

The Talkswitch 248 is the unit that supports external VOIP lines (although any Talkswitch can be upgraded with VOIP lines or extra PSTN lines later on), that will support 24 VOIP numbers with 8 concurrent calls. Note that you can use any analog phone as well as IP phones, so the total cost can be very low, it is also purely solid state, no fans or hard disks that will fail over time, that is a consideration for business use of course!

kko writes...

I can see a Talkswitch system coming in at around $2000 all up (just guessing), which seems a big premium to pay for what is a very simple setup.

Another reliable setup is PBXinaFlash, you can install it on a fairly low speced PC.
If you want the lowest cost with full PBX functions, then it definitely is PBXinaFlash with a SPA3102 for the PSTN + SPA942 IP phones. This is a good combination, but will take some time to work your way through to a functional system. At the same time it is a interesting and useful thing to learn.

PBX in a Flash
pbxinaflash.net
PIAF install guide
members.optusnet.com.au/...ontributions.htm
SPA 3102 PSTN termination:
www.oztechnologies.com/d...?product=SPA3102
SPA 942 phones
www.oztechnologies.com/d...p?product=SPA942
www.oztechnologies.com/d...sp?product=PA100

IMHO the IP04 is worth considering. Have a look at www.voip4d.org/wiki/imag...utorial_IP04.pdf

I can see that Asterix would ultimately give great power and flexibility, but unfortunately I don't have the skills, or more importantly the time to acquire those skills, so I think I'm better sticking to solutions which are more packaged.

Likewise PBX-in-a-flash - plus I would prefer to run the system on dedicated hardware, not on a PC.

Looking at the solutions available online at resellers and manufacturers' websites, I'm surprised how much knowledge is needed even to work out what is required, let alone to get it up and running. I guess that explains why so few businesses (small ones anyway) have implemented such a system. I have talked to a few business owners I thought would have investigated this option, and not one of them has looked at it seriously. I guess there's a huge market for anyone who can crack this - ie make it easy, and supply a complete package at the sort of price level which will be possible with volume.

kko writes...

I can see that Asterix would ultimately give great power and flexibility, but unfortunately I don't have the skills, or more importantly the time to acquire those skills,

You could also consider 3CX (www.3cx.com) which is a software based PBX running on Windows based machines which is a very simple install. I haven't investigated the full capacity of the software, so I can't comment on whether it will do everything you need.

That is what I use in my small office - combines 1 PSTN and about 5 VoIP providers and multiple extentions (IP phones/softphones) are very easily configured. The non-fax version of the software is free.

Incoming calls ring on one handset which our receptionist answers and can then be diverted to anywhere else in the office.

Outbound rules that are user configurable put our local calls through one VSP, mobiles through another, 13XXXX calls to another and 1800 is via PSTN.

All outbound rules can have up to 3 different routes so, for example, if someone is already making a 1800 call via PSTN, it will route it via one of the VSPs that don't charge for 1800 calls.

I don't believe it is anywhere near as feature rich as Asterix, however I am not skilled in its installation, configuration or maintenance.

I still use my trusty PSTN line for incoming and outgoing faxes.

kko writes...

I guess there's a huge market for anyone who can crack this - ie make it easy, and supply a complete package at the sort of price level which will be possible with volume.

Try www.mbit.com.au they can supply what you mentioned above.

The IP04 is a great move forward and a great price, however they have yet to fully implement the GUI into it (AsteriksNow GUI) with full documentation (from what I can find) and the fork project for FreePBX is not complete.

I would definately buy one and try it once a GUI is tried, tested and documented.

Mike.H writes...

The non-fax version of the software is free.

I use this one too. Another drawback of the 3CX free version is that it does not support the G729 codec.

The next higher paid version which includes G729 is around $700 Aud.

On the plus side it is easy to set up and administer.

Another option: The VSP Oztell has DIDs and Fax enabled DIDs going for 1.95 per month. They also have an on-line Web Pabx with call routing, time of day rules, etc built in to their monthly rate, I think I pay $6.95 which includes 2 DIDs. I then pay extra for more DIDs.

Giant writes...

Another drawback of the 3CX free version is that it does not support the G729 codec.

Received an email this morning as follows -

Quote
Some time ago you downloaded 3CX Phone System for Windows, a VOIP IP PBX. Given that we recently launched a new version, we thought you might want to download it from www.3cx.com/phone-system/downloadlinks.html and start enjoying all its new features.

Key new features of version 5.1:
- Call recording
- Phone provisioning
- New VoIP client (in BETA)
- Integrated fax server
- G729 codec support
- 3CX bridges for branch offices
- SIP Trunking support

For the complete list of new features please visit: www.3cx.com/support/newfeatures-v5.html

To download the latest version, please go to: www.3cx.com/phone-system/downloadlinks.html

EndQuote

Latest on IP04 GUI www.rowetel.com/ucasteri...aps.html#Voiptel

Rod178 writes...

Key new features of version 5.1:
- Call recording
- Phone provisioning
- New VoIP client (in BETA)
- Integrated fax server
- G729 codec support
- 3CX bridges for branch offices
- SIP Trunking support

Yeah, I received that email as well.

G729 isn't offered with the free version unfortunately, nor is the fax server or bridges for branch offices

Mike.H writes...

isn't offered with the free version unfortunately, nor is the fax server or bridges for branch offices

Hmmm, Almost a case of misrepresentation (bait and switch)

Rod178 writes...

Hmmm, Almost a case of misrepresentation (bait and switch)

I was hoping codec support was going to be included in the free version as well.

As soon as I saw it mention fax server, I knew they weren't talking about the free one unfortunately.

I use the GSM codec in the free version which in my limited experience seems almost as good as G729 in terms of voice quality and data usage.

boofh writes...

The IP04 is a great move forward and a great price, however they have yet to fully implement the GUI into it (AsteriksNow GUI) with full documentation (from what I can find) and the fork project for FreePBX is not complete.

The more I look into it the more I like the IP04. Found this tonight. www.voipon.co.uk/documen...cd1d6f8a40961fce

Mike.H writes...

I use the GSM codec in the free version which in my limited experience seems almost as good as G729 in terms of voice quality and data usage.

GSM will use significantly less lata than G729, although quality is not considered as good. I've used both and certainly found GSM ok, regarding quality.

Rod178 writes...

The more I look into it the more I like the IP04. Found this tonight.

Nice find, it looking better.
Do you know if MWI works with SPA 942.

Also would need to work out how to do ANI and clicktocall, since I am running those on my TB presently.

boofh writes...

Do you know if MWI works with SPA 942

Does this help?
www.3cx.com/forums/mwi-f...hanged-3997.html

Do you mean ANI within the TB ? I just use PT

Rod178 writes...

Does this help?
No, I meant with the IP04. MWI works with SPA942 and TrixBox, but I was thinking about if it worked with the IP04.

Do you mean ANI within the TB ? I just use PT
We ANI into TrixBox, it then rings us back and we can make calls using GoTalk basically for free (or within the FUP).

edit: and we run clicktocall on our web sites and emails, and this links directly to our trixbox. Wondering how hard it would be to implement into IP04, I guess I could copy the script in the TB .conf files and adapt it for IP04 fairly easily.

boofh writes...

No, I meant with the IP04. MWI works with SPA942 and TrixBox, but I was thinking about if it worked with the IP04.

My assumption(?) is yes, as any IP phone(?)

boofh writes...

Wondering how hard it would be to implement into IP04

Suggest that you contact David Rowe. I'm sure he'd be more than happy to respons www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=45

Thanks for the info on Oztell - their rates are very good... but the website really scares me off - exceptionally badly organised, and you jump all over the place to other websites, plus all sorts of exaggerated claims about them being the leader in VOIP. I don't know them at all, but that sort of thing makes me very wary. It seems the VOIP market is very crowded, and as a business, I can't afford to join up with an organisation that looks like it will be gone next week. I've found that mild paranoia is useful in business.... : ))

kko writes...

Looking at the solutions available online at resellers and manufacturers' websites, I'm surprised how much knowledge is needed even to work out what is required, let alone to get it up and running. I guess that explains why so few businesses (small ones anyway) have implemented such a system.

If you were buying a traditional (non-voip) PABX, you probably wouldn't be doing research online yourself to work out exactly what you need, you'd ring Telstra or some other PABX vendor and they'd design the system to your requirements and provide you with a quote.

VoIP is no different, the only difference here is your trying to do the design yourself with no knowledge. Would you attempt the same thing with a tradional non-voip pabx and an equal lack of knowledge?

If you want it to work properly (and lets face it, your business is your livelyhood) then get a professional to design it for you.

kko writes...

plus all sorts of exaggerated claims about them being the leader in VOIP. I don't know them at all, but that sort of thing makes me very wary.
Oztell were one of the first VoIP providers, from years and years ago.

It seems the VOIP market is very crowded, and as a business, I can't afford to join up with an organisation that looks like it will be gone next week.
Oztell, are probably one of the few providers who I feel confident to be around for a long time. We are with GoTalk, and I would feel less confident about them than Oztell.

Oztell were previously entrenched in business offerings, as such general public had little exposure to the name. Oztell are well known to the old timers on Whirlpool, perhaps not the flavour of Pennytel / WDP / Engin / Factortel / GoTalk, as far as the cheapest provider. Hence less mentionings from us scroungy Whirlpoolians.

You may well be right, LoM, and that's why I am posting here to find out.

There is a difference with the old analog PABX systems though - buying and configuring one of those cost many thousands of dollars, and could only be done by specialised installers. VOIP, thanks to Skype and others, has moved into the consumer realm, and in its simplest form doesn't require any dedicated hardware. Even the cost of moving up from there to dedicated VOIP hardware can be still in the low hundreds.

Computers do give us the ability to achieve much more in all sorts of areas, and I have the feeling that I can save myself some money at least by doing some of the groundwork... but I also think I will know when to recognise my limitations and call in the experts.

In the extremely limited contact I've had with "professionals" so far, they seem to be hankering for the old days when the term PABX set their cash registers ringing - they are don't seem to be really interested in supplying the simplest, most cost effective solution for my needs, more to upsell me to over-specified, over-complicated gear. And I can understand their problem - if they can only invoice a few hundred dollars for equipment, it doesn't leave much icing on the cake for providing tailored advice. But as I say, that's based on a very small sample.

Boofh, thanks for filling me in re Oztell - they really do need to improve the professionalism of their website!

Hi Rod178, I downloaded and instaled 3CX yesterday and still no G729 on the free version.

Edit: ouch already answered

kko writes...

they really do need to improve the professionalism of their website!

yeah, its been a industry joke for ever since I recall.

Have a look at a Virtual/Hosted Solutions with MyNetFone

EDIT: some recent discussion on Virtual PBX here /forum-replies.cfm?t=734450&p=2

Also Freecall. Refer to ePBX. Apparently a solution for less than $1000 www.freecall.net.au/main.php

There are some two-line DECT cordless phones available. The phone does PABX functions, avoiding the need for a PABX.

I think it is simple to set-up - simply set your VOIP so that if the "main" line is already in use, the VOIP does a redirect to the "secondary" VOIP account. Your secondary VOIP line should redirect to voice mail, if that line is busy. Only the "main" line needs a DID, which saves you money.

I know someone with a two-line DECT phone. I think it was made by Panasonic, and cost between $300 and $400, about a year ago. I just did a search on Google, using the terms:

panasonic cordless 2-line inurl:.au -ebay

and several results popped up.

As for not being locked into one provider, you will obviously need a single provider for the two accounts for incoming calls, or you will have difficulty getting calls redirected from the "main" line to the "secondary" line.

However, your outgoing calls can be with a multiple different providers, if you have suitable hardware. Two SPA3102 boxes could do this, and I believe some billion ADSL modems also support dial plans to multiple providers for outgoing calls.

You are already planning have a "real" phone line in case of power failures. The "real" phone line has another use you may not have realised - calling emergency services.

If you dial emergency services on a "real" phone line, your address will be on their screen before they can pick up the phone. If you use ATAs with PSTN connection, like the SPA3102, you can set the dial plan to direct emergency calls through the "real" phone line.

The "real" phone line has other uses too - when you call your local pizza shop on a "13" number, telstra will connect you to the nearest shop. I don't think that works with VOIP, you may get the pizza shop nearest to your DID, which is probably in the CBD.

Finally, if you want to do fax through VOIP, try it out before you commit. From reading Whirlpool, it seems a lot of people have problems with fax over VOIP.

Oh, I forgot something - instead of redirecting your "secondary" line to voicemail, you can redirect it to your "real" phone line. This will cost you for every call that is redirected, but you can think of it as a "third" incoming phone line - and still using your "main" phone number!

A IP/DECT phone may be a viable solution, in combination with a suitable router

Have a look at

www.theopensourcerer.com...set-685ip-phones

EDIT: May have to oder from the UK, although other, similar, Siemens models avaialble in Australia. Also note that these phones can be connected directly to the router ie can be used withoutn Asterisk.

Yes, thanks Rod, that could be a good option.

This model:
www.ryda.com.au/Siemens-...one-p/c470ip.htm
is expandable to multi-line

kko writes...

This model:
www.ryda.com.au/Siemens-...one-p/c470ip.htm
is expandable to multi-line

Yes, I myself am tempted. Will probably buy something like this when my DECT phones fail. Probably together with an IP04 :)

Much discussion here /forum-replies-archive.cfm/920389.html

Howdy,
Suggest:
Comms:
Telstra ISDN2 Enhanced service for incoming calls.
(Fully digital service, no PSTN echo or level problems).

Exetel Naked ADSL2+ service for Internet.
(Low-cost, fixed-IP service, works well).

Epygi Quadro 2xi IP PABX.
(Low-cost, high-performance IP PABX).

Aastra 55i IP phones.
(Great phones, much better than Snom).

Billion 7401VGP ADSL router.
(Very stable, with good QoS).

Generic 8 port switch for IP phone connectivity.
(Put phones on their own LAN).

MyNetFone VoIP provider, whirlpool BYO single line accounts:
www.mynetfone.com.au/whirlpool

Exetel backup VoIP provider.
(Provides a fallack if MNF has problems).

This is an *extremely* robust configuration.
It will allow:
1)
Full telephone operation in the event of no Internet, albiet using Telstra lines & Telstra costs :(

2)
Single telephone operation in the event of power failure.

3)
Fax to email facility in the Quadro 2xi.

4)
Voicemail.

5)
Ability to use the Office PABX as a mobile gateway.
(Use in conjuction with Telstra Pre-Paid Freedom plan to allow callback).

Daryl Pilkington writes...

Single telephone operation in the event of power failure.

Daryl, I'm not familiar with ISDN, but how will it work if the power fails? Does Telstra supply power down the line to run your ISDN box?

Russ00 writes...

Daryl, I'm not familiar with ISDN, but how will it work if the power fails? Does Telstra supply power down the line to run your ISDN box?

Yes, you can plug a standard telephone into the Tel1 socket.

The really nice thing about ISDN is its a digital service, no problems with long telephone lines, causing problems with fax transmit levels. CallerID is instantaneous, you can have 7 numbers programmed on the service & outgoing calls can be programmed to show any of the available numbers.

Its a 2 voice channel digital service:- you could have 2 simultaneous calls on the same number.

There has been some serious improvements lately on the IP04 firmware. David Rowe, Mark of astfin.org and Bruce of voiptel.no has created a stable environment for the VoIPtel GUI. Source available from update.voiptel.no as well as astfin.org and rowetel.com