Whirlpool

Just read that Telstra has submitted all the network information a head of time, so the G9 can respond.

www.nowwearetalking.com....work-information

This is starting to look like a chess game..the game has commenced.

slmtelstra writes...

This is starting to look like a chess game..the game has commenced.

At least it has commenced.

Personally I don't care who "wins", so long as someone builds the freaking thing.

troppo65 writes...

Personally I don't care who "wins", so long as someone builds the freaking thing.

If Telstra builds it, expect to be paying more for less. I'd rather them not build it at all if they just want to rip us off.

Telstra are a money making business, not a charity. If their pricing structure is deemed uncompetitive the ACCC will step in. If it's competitive but expensive, surely G9 are more then welcome to similarly invest?

snakeskin8 writes...

Telstra are a money making business, not a charity

Neither are the G9, but they're not in it just for the money.

Black Flame writes...

but they're not in it just for the money

All businesses are in it "just for the money". It may start off as one persons dream to build some massive telecomms company and provide fantastic, cheap services to the public, but once you have a board and shareholders... it's all about the money.

Doesn't matter what spin they put on it.

troppo65 writes...

Personally I don't care who "wins", so long as someone builds the freaking thing.

I do because Telstra will rip us off.

Black Flame writes...

Neither are the G9, but they're not in it just for the money.

rubbish. they're a business. like any business, that is their sole reason for existance.

Black Flame writes...

but they're not in it just for the money.

like those isp's who bag anyone who increases pricing then do it themselves, or who bag contracts then introduce "exit fees", who justify high pricing by using the premium service spiel

i could go on

packetstorm writes...

like any business, that is their sole reason for existance.

It is true that all businesses are in business to make money. However, there is more than one way to go about making money. For example, exploiting a monopolistic market position with hideously expensive services, that consumers often have little choice but to pay for, is a good way to make money; but not a very nice way.

Reading the article from NWAT in the OP (actually the little note from Sol underneath the article), it seems Telstra is planning for initial speeds of 20-30Mbps, for their FTTN network, and then scaling up to 50-100Mbps in a relatively short period of time. I think there is a chance that if given the nod to build the NBN they will only wholesale the required 12Mbps and reserve the higher speeds for Bigpond / Telstra Retail customers. It's along the lines of what Telstra wanted to do initially with their first FTTN proposal.

axelr8 writes...

NBN they will only wholesale the required 12Mbps and reserve the higher speeds for Bigpond / Telstra Retail customers

one can only hope

axelr8 writes...

NBN they will only wholesale the required 12Mbps

I don't get that, the NBN says a minimum of 12Mbps, nothing said about only 12mbps wholesale.

One of the requirements is that the NBN is open access for all access seekers. My interpretation is that if the builder offers a minimum of 12Mbps to 98% of the population as an open access wholesale product they have met the requirements.

axelr8 writes...

My interpretation is that if the builder offers a minimum of 12Mbps to 98% of the population as an open access wholesale product they have met the requirements.

that is correct. The current wording allows the operator to offer above 12mbps without having to wholesale it, as long as they provide the minimum.

axelr8 writes...

It is true that all businesses are in business to make money. However, there is more than one way to go about making money.

yep, that's true. there's the way that offers the best possible profit, and a million other inferior options.

this is business. business doesn't have a social conscience, and if it does, it's basically a form of advertising.

I think there is a chance that if given the nod to build the NBN they will only wholesale the required 12Mbps and reserve the higher speeds for Bigpond / Telstra Retail customers.

quite possible, sure.

drahcir writes...

who justify high pricing by using the premium service spiel

Like Telstra does... :)

You have to say that all the ISPs in the market all have shareholders, etc....the CEO's job of all these companies is to get a maximum return for the shareholders or if a private company, the owner. If they dont, they will be axed.

At the end of the day, all businesses work within the legal frame work to make the most money.

DO YOU THINK IF THE G9 WIN THE DEAL THAT IT WILL BE ANY DIFFERENT? The problem I see here if the G9 win there will be 9 of our biggest ISP's offering the same deals through the same consortium? There will be reduced competition if the G9 win. Do you think these 9 CEO's are out to make money? If the G9 win, roles will be reversed and the G9 businesses will become 9 smallers versions of the current Telstra, and new Telstra will become the sole competitor who will then under cut the G9. Telstra have made it known that it will expand its foxtel cable if it loses and offer 100MPS from day one at prices the G9 would not be able to compete with (without going broke).

The ONLY way forward, is to seperate Telstra Wholesale from its retail...have Telstra Wholesale purchased back to the Government and have Telstra Wholesale build the FTTN for everyone. Of Course, this will not happen, so the next best option would be to give the deal to Telstra (at least we have 9 large ISP's) providing individual competetion..whats to say the government doesn't award 50% of the build to G9 and 50% to Telstra?

EDIT: TYPO

Always Waiting writes...

Like Telstra does... :)

exactly

yet believe by them (the other isp's) saying it then it is ok

I am worried if the G9 win the deal. They can't be trusted. They annouced they have seen Telstra's network info, but the only way they are allowed to see it if they have given the Government the $5 million bond, which they have yet to pay.

So either the G9 are lying or the G9 and the Government have just broken Australia's privacy laws, which is a breach on the bidding process, which would mean the G9 should be kicked out and Telstra will automatically win the FTTN bid.

Which everway, its not good for the G9. I do not wish to support 9 foreign owned companies who lie directly to the Australian people through our media.
news.theage.com.au/g9-sa...080513-2dks.html

Yes but different businesses have different cultures and ideas about how to get the money. Some companies have a policy of giving good service for a good price to get market share and some customer loyalty. Other companies do not have such a culture and simply screw the customer for all they can get. Monopolies by definition are almost guaranteed to have the later philisophy.

slmtelstra writes...

DO YOU THINK IF THE G9 WIN THE DEAL THAT IT WILL BE ANY DIFFERENT? The problem I see here if the G9 win there will be 9 of our biggest ISP's offering the same deals through the same consortium? There will be reduced competition if the G9 win..... Telstra have made it known that it will expand its foxtel cable if it loses and offer 100MPS from day one at prices the G9 would not be able to compete with (without going broke).

So by your logic if G9 wins there will be MORE competition and lower prices. If G9 wins then there will be the alternative of telstra cable to keep G9 network competetive. If Telsra wins then Telstra and EVERY other ISP will be selling the SAME network with the exception of ONLY TELSTRA able to sell a premium product above 12mbps at a rip off price.

So by your logic if G9 wins there will be MORE competition and lower prices. If G9 wins then there will be the alternative of telstra cable to keep G9 network competetive. If Telsra wins then Telstra and EVERY other ISP will be selling the SAME network with the exception of ONLY TELSTRA able to sell a premium product above 12mbps at a rip off price.

No, no, no. Telstra has made it known that they will offer all Wholesale and there own retail division exactly the same pricing and products...so everyone will have access to the same speeds and pricing models...

If Telstra loses, then Telstra will enhance its Foxtel network to offer 100mbps, and then take the government to court which will delay the G9 build for years...in the mean time Big Pond only will have access to 100mbps through the foxtel cable network. Telstra will only build the additional Foxtel cable in profitable area's as Telstra will not have the loss making regional area's that they will be responsible for...the G9 will.

I think everyone if very on Whirlpool are very nieve when it comes to this topic. As I said before, whoever wins the tender to gain the access to all of the current exchanges, etc in Australia. They will "become" what Telstra is now. Business is about making money for
At the end of the day all companies, Telstra and the G9 want the same thing...and that is maximum profits for there share holders....business is not nice..it is ruthless and all companies play the marketing game with consumers....The old, poor me..Telstra charges too much...

slmtelstra writes...

I do not wish to support 9 foreign owned companies who lie directly to the Australian people through our media.

9 Foreign owned companies? I think you might want to double check that. Most of them are publically traded companies, no different to Telstra. This whole 'foreign devils' thing is getting a little old.

The G9 comprises AAPT, IiNet, Internode, Macquarie Telecom, Optus, PowerTel, Primus, Soul and TransAct.

AAPT/Powertel are part of Telecom New Zealand, a publicly listed company on the ASX (TEL)

iiNet is a publicly listed company on the ASX (IIN)

Internode is a private company, owned by an Australian Citizen.

Macquarie Telecom is part of the Macquarie Group, and publicly listed on the ASX (MAQ)

Primus is a Nasdaq-listed company (PRTL), a global telecommunications company.

Soul is a publicly listed company on the ASX (SOT)

Transact is operated by ActewAGL, which was setup by Australian Gas Light Company (AGL), and ACTEW Corporation, an ACT Government owned enterprise.

Michael Davis writes...

iiNet is a publicly listed company on the ASX (IIN)

Agree that some of the businesses are Aussie (also many ARE foreigned owned..BTW, any profits AAPT make go straight back to NZ..this does not strengthen the Aussie dollar!), but you did not deny that the G9 lied by annoucing that you reviewed the Telstra technical documents before paying your $5 million bond..which is against the privacy conditions FTTN....the G9 has incompetence written all over it...can't even get the basics right....so how do you think you can role out a national broadband network?

slmtelstra writes...

the G9 has incompetence written all over it...can't even get the basics right....so how do you think you can role out a national broadband network?

"role out" - geez, if you're going to bag someone at least use correct grammar!

slmtelstra writes...

any profits AAPT make go straight back to NZ..

Actually any AAPT profits go to TNZ's shareholders, which according to their annual report are mostly other publicly traded companies and managed funds.

Most of these businesses are public companies, and looking through the shareholder registers of a few of them, this 'foreign ownership' line that Telstra supporters keep pushing is comical at best. I'd encourage you to look into the situation yourself if it's a major issue for you.

slmtelstra writes...

but you did not deny that the G9 lied by annoucing that you reviewed the Telstra technical documents before paying your $5 million bond..

No i didn't , because i'm personally not involved with the work the G9 is doing or the bid, so i'll leave it to others to respond if they choose.

mwc1971 writes...

bag someone

Im not bagging anyone, I am just stating fact.

slmtelstra writes...

Im not bagging anyone, I am just stating fact.

Yep. Telstra's facts.

Just like how sensis told me that 85% of my business will come directly from the white pages, whereas only 5% will come from google.

When I asked where those statistics came from, he said Telstra.

So I'm sorry, but what you read on NWAT and what you hear from Telstra should be taken with a grain of salt.

Telstra will not now or ever expand it's HFC network. It is legally prohibited from doing so as a result of the cable wars of the late 90's.

slmtelstra writes...

the game has commenced

If by game you mean Telstra playing by their own rules and not sharing required information for other bidders to properly submit a bid for the tender of their oen, than yes, the "Game" has begun.

It's a pity that this isn't a game at all. It's a serious and huge financial gamble that is being underhandedly controlled by Telstra.

I’m torn up inside. As a shareholder from T1, I want to see them get the tender because Telstra has dragged its feet for so long now they are almost in a position that if they don’t get the NBN, their cash cow (POTS) will soon dry up and forecasts will drop along with the share price. Not even Sol and his Amigos can silver tongue their way out of that. Even if Phil says “Hey, I would now recommend Telstra shares to my Mother!!” it still won't be enough.

On the other hand, I want to see a proper National Network that is run to provide a service, not to make huge dollars. Sure, there has to be a return on investment, but not at the detriment of the Australian people! Something I have zero confidence in Telstra for being able to do.

If the Tender process isn't a level playing field thanks to Telstra then what kind of environment can we expect for wholesaling of the NBN if Telstra are in charge!!??

Unless something has been submitted to the government that has been totally hidden from the public. They still have not listed the most important thing: PRICING

It can be 10gbit-to-the-home for all i care. What matters the most is affordibility.

And by pricing i dont mean $x for xMbps. That tells absolutely nothing lol.

If they actually present what they plan on pricing. And sign a paper saying they wont jack up the prices after a few months. I and im sure other whirlpoolians will have a read over it and disagree or agree. Who knows maybe they might be planning cheap 100mbit... However it just takes a quick look at Bigpond's adsl pricing to have a guess at what there charging: Too much.

Dead Route writes...

Neither are the G9, but they're not in it just for the money.

Uh you are quite mistaken there. they are not interested in the money probably straight away, but in terms of long term viability, money is very much to do with it.

Dead Route writes...

If Telstra builds it, expect to be paying more for less. I'd rather them not build it at all if they just want to rip us off.

there will be a fixed ROI, which telstra has publicaly said to be 18%, which would be $20 per home FTTN passes every month(with $10 going to the gov, and $10 to telstra) and then plus ULL which costs $25 + per month

you're assuming every household they roll past is interested in the product.

godzilla74 writes...

you're assuming every household they roll past is interested in the product.

1 in 8 homes already have foxtel

there is 10 million phone lines already(8million homes)

3 million broadband connections and growing by the day.

prices will fall as more people use more services