Hi there, first of just got Naked DSL with internode today. very happy with their serrvice. said 8-1pm today and they came at 9am.

Anyways i am now online with that connection and is quite fast and happy. However im wondering why when i do a tracert, the connection goes to Adelaide first then come sback. Shouldnt it be:

loop0.lns1.per1.internode.on.net or something?

As you may know, by routing it to Adelaide hat results in higher pings from a perth to perth connection. the tracert is as follows:

Tracing route to www.iinet.com.au [203.59.24.221]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
2 64 ms 63 ms 65 ms lns11.adl6.internode.on.net [203.16.215.184]
3 64 ms 67 ms 66 ms vlan13.cor1.adl6.internode.on.net ­ [203.16.212.193]
4 105 ms 100 ms 100 ms gi0-1-1.bdr2.adl2.internode.on.net­ [203.16.212.145]
5 102 ms 99 ms 96 ms pos5-0.cor1.per2.internode.on.net ­ [203.16.212.46]
6 101 ms 101 ms 101 ms gi0-3.cor1.per1.internode.on.net [150.101.0.185]
7 99 ms 96 ms * iinet.ix.waia.asn.au [198.32.212.2]
8 97 ms 106 ms 97 ms ge2-5.per-qv1-bdr2.ii.net [203.215.4.20]
9 107 ms 99 ms 103 ms gi9-46.icp-qv1-core1.ii.net [203.215.4.4]
10 104 ms 104 ms 101 ms www.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.221]

Can someone please shed some light on this. Thanks.

mokuni writes...

However im wondering why when i do a tracert, the connection goes to Adelaide first then come sback. Shouldnt it be:

loop0.lns1.per1.internode.on.net or something?

We don't interconnect with Optus in Perth for Naked DSL terminations as yet, for now you will land on an LNS in Adelaide.

Thanks for the prompt Reply Joseph. Oh what! sigh I didnt know that. Well the ping times mean alot to me as the latency wouldnt be an issue with a large company like internode. Can I ask what I can do to remedy this?

1.)So if I go on a normal ADSL2+ plan, my ping will be fine? ~20ms .

2.) When will you guys interconnect with Optus for Naked DSL? any ETA?

mokuni writes...

1.)So if I go on a normal ADSL2+ plan, my ping will be fine? ~20ms .

If you are on an AGILE DSLAM port in Perth, ie. an Extreme service, then yes your connection will terminate on a Perth LNS and traffic to other local ISPs would generally exit locally.

What ping time you will get is dependent on many factors.

2.) When will you guys interconnect with Optus for Naked DSL? any ETA?

no ETA that I'm aware of. One would imagine it would be when there is enough volume of Perth Naked DSL users on Optus ports.

Sigh. Is there a fee you guys charge to change from Naked to Extreme. And i only got connected a hour ago. And yes I will go and get a phone line connected with Telstra since Extreme service needs one. This is just disappointing.

Bear in mind that Extreme is only available at Subi, Pier and Wellington exchanges. So if you're not on one of those exchanges like 99% of the WA population, you can't get it.

I find this pretty interesting. Without trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, I'll have to take this into account when recommending Naked ADSL services to clients in Perth. I just assumed that because Internode had a Point of Presence here - with an Optus transit - ping times would be similar to Internode's ADSL1 and Extreme services.

If anyone who understands this stuff better than me is able to satisfy my curiosity, is this an issue at any of Internode's other POPs, or is it just Perth? Why are more customers needed before it can be fixed?

Seems a shame not to use the POP here with its shiny new redundant links, especially if the ping time above is anything to go by. 100ms to iinet is rather severe. I average 18ms from my Internode ADSL1 8mb connection.

Speedy Tommo writes...

Seems a shame not to use the POP here with its shiny new redundant links,

We will, we're just turning on the interconnects in to Optus progressively around the country. The more people sign up, the faster we'll turn them on in other states.

This is not at all unusual with the launch of a new service type like this. It happened with the initial launch of non-Naked services too, several years ago... its just that it was so long ago that most of you have have forgotten that it was like in the first few months with those services too - that Internode wasn't nationally interconnected on day one.

I find this pretty interesting. Without trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, I'll have to take this into account when recommending Naked ADSL services to clients in Perth.

Well, if you un-recommend them, you're actually going to prolong this situation. Just warn them that its like this right now but will be switched to a direct Perth interconnect as the customer base size rises.

Simon

Simon Hackett writes...

We will, we're just turning on the interconnects in to Optus progressively around the country. The more people sign up, the faster we'll turn them on in other states.

How soon do you think this will take, using the similiar example for non naked service. I want to pay for what I get, if the wait is say few months 1-3 then i might just consider else I might have to leave another company who can provide me with the ping. And yes its abit sad how an ADSL1 can get lower pings them what I have.

as the customer base size rises.
Whats the customer base size at the moment and what is the magic number that management will consider making the routing better.

mokuni writes...

Whats the customer base size at the moment and what is the magic number that management will consider making the routing better.

I think that information is most likely confidentially/commercially sensitive to the ISP and won't be revealed especially here on WhirlPool.

Simon Hackett writes...

Well, if you un-recommend them, you're actually going to prolong this situation. Just warn them that its like this right now but will be switched to a direct Perth interconnect as the customer base size rises.

Yes, absolutlely. Hopefully it won't take long. I would have switched myself by now if I wasn't on a RIM.

Can an internode representative or Grant reply me on this one. I signed up for internode purely because it was always known to be a Gamers network. I think that title cant be made up by advertising/marketing but done purly by example. After going with them for about a week now, Yes I paid $149 + $79 for my plan to play games only to not get the Quality of Service I thought I was getting. What can internode do to remedy my situation, and how can I actually recommend friends to join this "gamers network" if the pings that I am getting doesnt reflect this.

Let me just confirm again that the speed of browsing internet and stuff are perfect, and i dont get any sort of drop outs. The main issue is the Ping and for a gamer pings are everything.

Can someone please comment on this one? Reps?

if it lags, you don't live close enough to the exchange, stop complaining please lol :)) just move house, find a better apartment, or better yet call up telstra and ask them to install a new line :)) it will give you a better ping easily by a few days tops..

Integrity writes...

if it lags, you don't live close enough to the exchange, stop complaining please lol :)) just move house, find a better apartment

For the love of god! lol..I can't stand so called solution makers who don't make any sense regarding the OP's post and what it's all about.
If you read the actual post Integrity it's nothing to do with what you recommend. It's clearly an Internode issue that would have me a little dissapointed as well.

Hmm, Perth-to-Perth there's not much they can do unless they install an access point there. That said, to anywhere else the speeds should be exactly the same (to, say, games.internode.on.net, that is in Adelaide I believe).

mokuni writes...

Tracing route to www.iinet.com.au [203.59.24.221]

What are your ping times like to games.internode.on.net

I know they cant do anything about it, however there must be somesort of compromise that they can reach. I will bear the cost to go get a phone line with telstra, if they can waive off the fee for disconnection from naked, I will join their adsl2+ if the pings/hops "stay" in perth.

My ping to internode.on.net are all 65ms. But thats not the problem. Is there a way to not redirect me all the way to adelaide? I mean like technically? I dont mind staying, imi sure internode is a very good company to go with and i cant complain with anything else (they came on time for provisioning, good pings (if i stayed in adelaide, very fast connection). Sigh i dont know what to do.

mokuni writes...

I will join their adsl2+ if the pings/hops "stay" in perth.

Like I said above, that service is only available at Subi, Pier and Wellington exchanges. So you can't get it.

The only way to get the routing to stay in Perth with Internode on exchanges other than those mentioned above would be to go with ADSL1 speeds. Which would mean putting up with higher costs and a max connection speed of 8Mb/384k. Although pings are better with 1500/256.

mokuni writes...

Is there a way to not redirect me all the way to adelaide? I mean like technically?

Yes, but it's not cost effective with naked adsl right now, so they're not doing it yet. Simon answered that when he posted this above:

Simon Hackett writes...

We will, we're just turning on the interconnects in to Optus progressively around the country. The more people sign up, the faster we'll turn them on in other states.

Have a chat with Internode directly and I'm sure they will be willing to listen and offer advice. Reps just post here when they feel like it, it's not an official support forum or anything.

I feel for ya mokuni, I really do - and I'm glad I didn't switch to Naked from my Extreme SOHO service (to be more precise, I'm glad the Naked service didn't appear to be worth the hassle of switching) otherwise I'd be pretty pissed.

For what it's worth, they do provide a good service so it might be worth waiting it out if you can stand it. Otherwise, see if there's another ADSL2 ISP on your exchange that lets you select a low latency profile. I don't think Internode's Naked service would allow profile selection since it's on Optus hardware, but it might do - anyone in the know care to comment?

Tracing route to www.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.221]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms my server :)
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms my modem :)
3 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms lns1.per1.internode.on.net [150.101.0.195]
4 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms gi0-2-3.cor1.per1.internode.on.net­ [150.101.0.177]
5 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms iinet.ix.waia.asn.au [198.32.212.2]
6 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms ge2-5.per-qv1-bdr2.ii.net [203.215.4.20]
7 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms gi9-46.icp-qv1-core1.ii.net [203.215.4.4]
8 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms www.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.221]

q|x writes...

I don't think Internode's Naked service would allow profile selection since it's on Optus hardware, but it might do - anyone in the know care to comment?

There are various profiles available on the Optus ports however they are generally used for troubleshooting and aren't available as an option for customers to try directly in the toolbox.

And there definitely isn't a low latency profile. The Optus default profile works similar to the ADSL2+ High Reliability profile on an Agile port, it's designed to be stable for a wide variety of conditions.

Low latency profile on an Agile port and 1500 or under on a Telstra port will give the lowest pings if that's what floats your boat.

All other services/profiles have interleaving to increase stability and speed, this means you see 10 to 20ms extra latency in the first hop.

Speedy Tommo writes...

Have a chat with Internode directly and I'm sure they will be willing to listen and offer advice. Reps just post here when they feel like it, it's not an official support forum or anything.

Thx for reply Speedy. Well thing is I called the internode support to see if they can help me. The guy who answered the phone didn’t sound friendly at all and when i asked about what he can do about it he said nothing can be done. To be honest he didn’t sound very knowledgeable. He actually told me “Do you know a website called whirlpool, they can/might be able to help you on there better, even the owner (im thinking hes referring to Grant H) is on there). Well if your own support is forwarding it a forum to answer my questions, that doesn’t sound too good.

Is there/will there be any problems if I were to get Telstra to provision me a telephone line, knowing that I have a naked line on it now? Im thinking of doing this:

1. ) leave my naked ADSL for now
2. ) Call Telstra to get a phone line ($60 setup + $26 for line rental)
3. ) Once I get the phone line going, I will cancel naked, and sign up with amnet (WA based)

Any problems with what I said in the above? Im just sick and tired for not getting what Im paying for.

mokuni writes...

Do you know a website called whirlpool, they can/might be able to help you on there better

I find that hard to believe. I find it more likely that you're not willing to bother going through the standard support process. If you're not happy with the outcome send an email to feedback.

Im just sick and tired for not getting what Im paying for.

Which part of the service that you signed up for aren't you getting exactly? What part of the 'low-ping' section of the contract?

mokuni writes...

1. ) leave my naked ADSL for now
2. ) Call Telstra to get a phone line ($60 setup + $26 for line rental)
3. ) Once I get the phone line going, I will cancel naked, and sign up with amnet (WA based)

Sounds like a reasonable plan, though I'm not that sure about Amnet. We used to use them a lot at work and their customer service leaves quite a bit to be desired. Their billing system is also quite... unique.

I actually jumped ship to Internode after Amnet bought out my previous ISP (Arachnet) - there was a noticeable drop in performance when we were moved to use Amnet's network. They may have improved things since then, though, and WAIX traffic was never an issue.

Bunce writes...

Which part of the service that you signed up for aren't you getting exactly? What part of the 'low-ping' section of the contract?

It's not unreasonable to expect that an ADSL connection in Perth will be terminated in Perth, and access to other resources in Perth will be fast. Particularly if the ISP advertises itself as being connected to the WAIX.

Further, mokuni has been quite reasonable and is simply asking for the best way to resolve their biggest concern - getting good ping times to the servers they use. They're not demanding a full refund and public apology.

If I'd signed up with an ADSL ISP and found the best pings I could get to *anywhere* were in the 60ms range, I'd be pretty annoyed too. It seems that mokuni does understand Internode's reasons for not currently having a direct interconnect in Perth for their naked service yet, and is just trying to find the quickest path to getting what they want from their internet connection.

I'm sure you are trying to be helpful, but I've no idea who you're actually trying to help. Pointing out that the contract doesn't specify "low pings" just makes Internode's customers look petty and dismissive of anyone else's perfectly legitimate problems.

Thanks for the msg q|x. Yea as a gamer ping is very important as what you said. So I obviously have no choice but to move ISP's.

Bunce writes...

I find that hard to believe. I find it more likely that you're not willing to bother going through the standard support process. If you're not happy with the outcome send an email to feedback.

Well thing is Bunce, thats exactly what happend. If I could play you the message that was spoken on the phone I would. But for you to tell me, when you yourself weren't even there has no merit to it.

Which part of the service that you signed up for aren't you getting exactly? What part of the 'low-ping' section of the contract?

Well thats the thing. Nothing is wrong with their service, apart from this rerouting issue. So far I have no issues with their provisioning, internet speeds, no dropouts what so ever. Its just as I thought as a WAIX and also gamers network, they would at least let me know, that "gamers on internode naked plan IN perth will have higher latency due to re-routing to the eastern states".

I think this can be closed, if it indeed is possible.

Oh forgot one more thing. Nice pings btw :). 5ms. yum.