Today I went into my local telstra shop to organise a new line for my offices just for an ADSL connection as naked DSL is not available anytime soon.

I went with the Home Line budget - $19.95 / per month got it all set up and during the process I told the rep what I was doing (this is just for ADSL) and once he got to the end he perked up and called another rep over and asked the question 'You can't use other ISP's on HL budget can you?' the response was 'No, you can't'.

I then out of curiosity asked if I could use Bigpond ADSL and sure enough I could, and then I said what about if my ISP uses TW and he said most certainly not!

Now, the only reason I think this is BS is because I have the HL budget at home and I connect to aaNet just fine. Anyway, I didn't bother arguing with them as they had 3 reps on to me and I'm trying to get this sorted fast so I can get on with things and just thought to myself I would pop back in after a few days and get it changed to HL budget instead of what they put me on HL complete or HL plus or something.

Did he BS me or is this a new thing I'm not aware of?

Well they're sorta right.

T&Cs of homeline budget state you cannot use another ISP using LSS.

This means if your ISP is using TW, all is OK. If they are connecting to the ISPs own DSLAM then you are not eligeable for Homeline Budget.

It is a grey area, and in half fairness to the Telstra sales peeps, it is pretty for a non tech person to get confused about the difference.

We are managing to get things through on HL B by connecting the line first and getting the ISP to apply for service after, it is not picked up by Telstra most of the time.

Same if you ring to change to HL B, many of the call centre staff fail to pick it up.

Anyone who was on HL B and using an LSS before the T&C change is OK.

Yeah ok, that is fairly confusing.

I have next to no hope of connecting to something other than TW gear in my area so what I was planning 'changing it back to HL Budget' will work perfectly for me just have to find the right call centre person to do it for me :-P.

Thanks for clarifying that troppo65

ADSL1 is not LSS.

Ken Richards. writes...

ADSL1 is not LSS.

It can be.

If your ISP is using their own DSLAM, but has you on an ADSL1 profile you are still using an LSS.

Not an overly common occurence, but not unheard of as depending on your distance from the exchange you can get better performance using ADSL1 instead of 2.

Technically you cant use any other ISPs apart from BigPond but...and its a big BUT....Telstra Retail has no right to check up your line codes to see if you are using a ISP that has its own DSLAM at your exchange which means feel free to go to ADSL2+ through a diff ISP such as Internode or TPG.

Only Telstra Wholesale has the right to check up your line codes since they are the arm that provisions ADSL connections. Its been discussed here before specially at the Internode forums part. I think theres also a fellow here who works at Telstra so whim him/her and ask if you want peace of mind.

dodgyfilokid writes...

Its been discussed here before specially at the Internode forums part.

I've read that too but lost the page... if anyone can link that again that will be great :)

Just get HomeLine Budget and apply for your ADSL through another provider.

It is illegal for Telstra to determine that you are using another ISP for wholesale DSL as it violates the principles of operational separation.

There was someone on Whirlpool here that covered it. If you google site:forums.whirlpool.net.au "operational separation" "homeline budget" it'll be somewhere in there.

Well my application for ADSL was rejected by Telstra anyway!

Telstra rejected your ADSL application on this date: 10th May, 2008
The reason supplied by Telstra for rejecting you application was:
The connection was rejected

Maybe because you are trying to apply home line for a business.

Greg-Mega writes...

once he got to the end he perked up and called another rep over and asked the question 'You can't use other ISP's on HL budget can you?' the response was 'No, you can't'. That is a total lie my sister used too work for Telstra & they are not allowed too deny the Homeline budget option too anyone who wants it, I rang Telstra earlier in the year too get Homeline Budget as I use VOIP & the first person I spoke too refused too give me this package. I then waited a few day & I had a really nice person sign me up for Homeline Budget & she didn't care what ISP I was with.

The reason supplied by Telstra for rejecting your application was: The connection was rejected

Hahaha there's some interesting cicular logic for you :)

You'll probably find it was rejected because it's a new line. Usually takes the database a couple of days to update.

Yeah that's what I was thinking as I was told it wouldnt be connected till Tuesday (tomorrow) but it was connected by close of business Friday.

I'll re-apply for ADSL tonight and see how I go the second time around, good news is I'm less than a block away from the exchange so when ADSL2+ is available I should be able to see some good speeds.

I know I applied for home line budget knowing full well I would be using NAKED DSL on it.

the 19.95 plan wasn't even offered to me by telstra when I asked to connect. When I asked for it, I was given a big scary talk about having an ADSL service on it. I acted dumb, said it was just so people could call me and left it at that. a day latter I applied for Naked.

A friend of mine recently did the exact same thing.

As for having another DSL service on the line (not naked) I think you could prob still get away with it. I don't think Mr Telstra will come and knock on your door!

There was a thread floating around which I read before I signed up basically saying something along the lines of Telstra ahs no right to ask what you are using the line for etc. Does anyone remmebr this post? it was apparently by someone who knew how tesltra worked. It made quite interesting reading

EDIT: As mentioned above, search the threads for 'Operational Seperation'. If TLS says "you can't have budget and this" you can basically tell them to go and lick a cats bum!

RazzaDazzla writes...

There was a thread floating around which I read before I signed up basically saying something along the lines of Telstra ahs no right to ask what you are using the line for etc.

For all those interested, these are the most helpful and informative posts on the HLB issue:
/forum-replies.cfm?t=731531&ux=145146

RazzaDazzla writes...

I know I applied for home line budget knowing full well I would be using NAKED DSL on it.

why would you apply for a phone line if you want to get naked ?
you don't need to apply for a phone line at all.

To the OP, just order your homeline budget, don't mention ADSL at all. And once connected apply for the DSL provider of your choice.

Telstra can't and won't check .

IMO, you're better off getting homeline budget + standard DSL than a naked account. The price difference is minimum, and you have the advantage of an emergency line if required

Well I'm connected with HomeLine Plus or Complete or something Telstra shop is only 2 blocks walk from my offices so i was just going to stop in one lunch time and drop it back to budget, I really couldn't be stuffed arguing with them that day.

jya writes...

IMO, you're better off getting homeline budget + standard DSL than a naked account.

This for me or the other poster? If for me - I can't get Naked so it was out of the question from the very start.

RazzaDazzla writes...

I know I applied for home line budget knowing full well I would be using NAKED DSL on it.

You applied for a PSTN service when you were going to be using NDSL?

Really?

EvolutionOnline writes...

You applied for a PSTN service when you were going to be using NDSL?

It makes it far easier if the line has a phone number attached to it. Then the line is ported to the other dslam.

Otherwise the telstra tech would need to connect an unused line to another's dslam and they get confused. As there could be several lines going into an address or records could be incorrect. Having a number makes it far easier.

Even with a number, they still get it wrong at lot of the time.

Sick Sad World writes...

Otherwise the telstra tech would need to connect an unused line to another's dslam and they get confused. As there could be several lines going into an address or records could be incorrect. Having a number makes it far easier.

Yes - but you're paying a connection fee for the Telstra service ($59-125, or $299) for this convenience?

jya writes...

why would you apply for a phone line if you want to get naked ?
you don't need to apply for a phone line at all.

To apply for exetel naked you get your phone line connected, then give Exetel your phone number and they take it from there.

I just got the same !!! I just wanted a Ph line and telstra said i couldnt have the $19.95 if i was using another ISP. She said i had to go to the 26.95 line rental if i wanted to use another IPS.
This must be wrong.
Thinking of calling the TIO ???

There is so much garbage being posted here.

Homeline budget is a service offered by Telstra, but has conditions associated with it.

HomeLine Budget customers agree not to acquire services from other carriage service providers by dialling their access override code and must not acquire a broadband service from another service provider which is provided using line sharing technology.

This means if your ISP is putting you on a Telstra Wholesale plan, you are entitled to use Homeline Budget.

If you are connected to one of their DSLAMs, you are using LSS and are hence ineligible for Homeline Budget.

It's really that simple.

You may be able to slip it past them and if you do good luck to you, we try it frequently for our clients. If you get sprung, Telstra are perfectly within their rights to put you on a higher plan or refuse to change you to HLB.

So Telstra are well within their rights to be as anti-competitive as they like?

It's already been mentioned many times on WP that Telstra's policy on Homeline Budget is no legally enforceable. If this wasn't the case then Telstra's own system wouldn't have printed in bright pink that says YOU ARE NOT TO DENY HOMELINE BUDGET TO ANYONE in the eSource Homeline Budget information.
(/forum-replies.cfm?t=731...175716#r14175716)

Viceroy73 writes...

I just got the same !!! I just wanted a Ph line and telstra said i couldnt have the $19.95 if i was using another ISP. She said i had to go to the 26.95 line rental if i wanted to use another IPS.

I explored this many months ago. In Whirlpool, I found a few references saying what you've discovered above. Like you, I have another ISP but want cheap line rental.

troppo65 writes...

If you are connected to one of their DSLAMs, you are using LSS and are hence ineligible for Homeline Budget.

It's really that simple.

You are correct as far as your contract with Telstra goes -- you are agreeing not to acquire ADSL using LSS from another carrier (HomeLine Budget customers agree not to acquire services from other carriage service providers by dialling their access override code and must not acquire a broadband service from another service provider which is provided using line sharing technology.). However, the point others (and myself) are making is that it is actually unenforceable, as Telstra would need to violate the laws of operational separation (the split between Wholesale and Retail) in order to enforce it. This is explained to Telstra employees in the call centres, and even on the intranet. If you have a Telstra worker that refuses you HomeLine Budget because of Wholesale DSL codes then they've breached Operational Separation.

Therefore, yes, you may have HomeLine Budget with another provider. Yes, it's a technical breach of the HomeLine Budget terms and conditions, but Telstra can't refuse it to you without breaking the law.

If you get sprung, Telstra are perfectly within their rights to put you on a higher plan or refuse to change you to HLB.
They're not "within their rights" -- they have broken the privacy of the wholesale service provider. An important part of the Wholesale/Retail Telstra-split was that retail consultants should not see wholesale products. If you do not tell the consultant you have wholesale DSL, then they should not know any better.

If you have any further questions, you'd be well advised to read through Rimsy's posts on the topic. From what I can gather, he must have been working in some fixed-line Telstra call centre and is well-versed in operational separation rules and fixed lines. His posts are certainly spot-on.

In short --- just take your HomeLine Budget.

Fast Ethernet writes...

If you have any further questions, you'd be well advised to read through Rimsy's posts on the topic. From what I can gather, he must have been working in some fixed-line Telstra call centre and is well-versed in operational separation rules and fixed lines. His posts are certainly spot-on.

This is all semantics and irrelevant.

If you sign on to Homeline Budget you agree to the terms, namely not using another ISP via LSS.

If you then go ahead and get your ADSL via LSS you have breached your agreement.

If you tell Telstra you are going to be using an LSS service they are with their rights to refuse to put you on Homeline Budget.

People can waffle about separation and all the other periphery, the simple fact is if you are using an LSS service you are not eligable for HLB.

If they breach a regulation to find out if you are using LSS then you are going into areas that would need a solicitor to sort out, but if you tell them yourself, I doubt they have breached any laws anywhere.

troppo65 writes...

This is all semantics and irrelevant.
This whole thread is about HomeLine Budget and LSS. I provided an answer -- just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it "semantics" and "irrelevant".

if you tell them yourself, I doubt they have breached any laws anywhere.
My post said that. Perhaps you need to read it again.
If you do not tell the consultant you have wholesale DSL, then they should not know any better.

Fast Ethernet writes...

troppo65 writes...

This is all semantics and irrelevant.
... exaggeration much?

Not really, if you read the OP he told Telstra that he intended using another ISP.

He asked if this was true, I replied with the facts. Which you do not dispute.

So all the waffle about Telstra breaching regulations by checking wholesale info is irrelevant, because it didn't happen.

We could go on for days about all the possible ways you could lie to Telstra, and all the possible ways Telstra could find out you're lying, even whether deliberately misleading by omission is actually lying, all the different ways Telstra could find out if you are using an LSS service and whether or not each of them breaches some law, memo, agreement or whatever (now I'm exaggerating) and it would all be completely irrelevant to the OP's question.

It would also come under the heading of semantics, IMO, as under whatever circmstances you care to imagine, by using an LSS service you would always be in breach of your agreement.

Which I, personally, have nothing against, I'm on HLB myself and ADSL2 with another provider.

Summary: Telstra have the right to deny or cancel HLB to a user who is using LSS but in practice it can't be enforced unless you tell them you are doing so.

Even still removing or denying HLB due to LSS resulting from a customer telling retail would be a grey area as retail are not allowed to access that information from wholesale and requesting a cancel implies that retail knew of the LSS when they're nor meant too.

What's with all these arguments?

Just call Telstra on 132200, say I want a line just to make a call a week, so just give me Homeline Budget. Don't say you are getting ADSL, don't say you have Internet, then they will give it to you.

Why do you need to be smart and tell them you have ADSL?

Aaron S writes...

Why do you need to be smart and tell them you have ADSL?

Umm, wouldn't they know? Disclaimer: hope they don't know.

Not unless you tell them.