Whirlpool

Service seems to be every companies least priority these days.

Why is it when a customer pays good money to be provided a ISP service do they get penalized if they have go over the upload OR download quota? I know they don't want the hassle over making changes, but if it is a hassle to get more money from the customer why be in the service industry! Make it a online feature to be able to roll over, means more money for ADAM. Instead they choose to slug $35 to make a change on top of your new months charges.

In the time it takes to make a phone call to Adam and discuss ADAM could have done it and kept the paying customer happy. My example comes from less experience with Adam as I am a new customer with them but have had ADSL 2+ through one of their resellers before MI2, which i never had any roll over troubles with.

As I have download a few movies this month and allowed others to leech from me (as i am kind). I downloaded about 5GB then uploaded with out noticing 9Gb and with a bit of general browsing went over my quota of 10GB for uploading. This then shapes both my uploading and download speeds when i still have plenty of GB to go

Instead of being able to roll over my account and Adam getting the monthly money faster. ADAM has chosen to make a fee for nothing which makes me as a customer feel ripped off. I will now look for a better ISP that can consider people and provide a better customer service.

From ADAM
(Changing plans immediately will result in your card being charged for the Plan Change (which is $35)cost as well as the first months access. Remaining days on your account are forfeited.)

Hello,

We ideally want you to be on the right plan for your usage, and there in we do allow you to change up in quota to a higher plan without the $35.00 charge.

The plan change area does allow you to make an immediate plan change , if you so wish to the same plan, but the plan change fee $35.00 is applicable. It is also applicable if you are in contract and changing down in monthly spend.

We would much rather you pay the $5.00 difference each month and be on the 10 gig plan and not risk being shaped during the usage of your service, than for you to "reset your quota" and pay the $35.00 fee to change to the same plan.

*** also note, within the first month of service you can do a tuneup to the right plan for your service, we will just charge you the difference between plans. This differs with Adam Home if you change speeds on any Adam Home (ADSL1) plan the $35.00 speed change fee is applicable.

Hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Sorry but it doesn't offer any solution. I still am stuck with a shaped speed for another 7 days or so. I refuse to pay extra to go up in plans from 10GB to 20GB as I will not use it. That still would not solve the issue anyway, as I will still be shaped until my new billing cycle when the account will upgraded.

The simple solution is to offer the customer the RIGHT to roll over without a change to their current plan with no fee. Means more money for ADAM. Or more unhappy customers to come if no solution is made.

on the other side, we can assume that ADAM will counts upload tooo

I am in the same boat to,

I am on 40Gig Plan,

i can upload upto 34gig during the first 20 days and then stop uploading for the remaining 10 days,

FYI, i upload mainly to peering or pipe services which comes local D/l,

IS it possible for ADAM, to break the Upload quota like the d/l quota?

Yes uploading and downloading are both counted. Which ever quota is hit first you are shaped regardless of it being uploading!

To ADAM,

can we expect any good news from your side like Internode?

lazydesi writes...

To ADAM,

can we expect any good news from your side like Internode?

I dunno, paying around $65 with adam were a similar plan to internode is approx $85 is still good news to me.

Its not about money, its all about receiving good quality honest service, nothing can beat that!

tobes2005 writes...

I still am stuck with a shaped speed for another 7 days or so. I refuse to pay extra to go up in plans from 10GB to 20GB as I will not use it.

It is cheapest to upgrade immediately to a 20G plan.
You get billed immediately, so effectively give away 1 weeks "line rental" @ $1/day.

You end up with a larger quota to use next month.

Then swap back down next month, for free if you are out of quota. If not you need to decide if the extra 10G for $10 is useful to you.

lazydesi writes...

i upload mainly to peering or pipe services which comes local D/l,

lazydesi writes...

can we expect any good news from your side like Internode?

On a 40G Adam plan you can
Download 40G via pipe (using a p2p IP filter) limited by your 40G upload limit

Plus Download 40G from a news server

Plus download over 50G from CN

Overall 130G download for a competitive 40G price is already good news IMO

Edit
While I am in favour of innovative metering which passes on savings / cheap data to the user, I can't see how moving to the Internode metering model would help anyone.

patch1 writes...

Download over 40G via pipe limited by your 40G upload limit (PIPE down load limit not currently enabled I believe)

uploading is bit tricky, we are having 40gb upload only for both PIPE and international uploads.

80 GB (Pipe + other) D/l = 40GB Upload only,

I am a bit fair regarding uploading (both on pipe or other) using peer to peer. (in other words i upload almost what is d/l)

This is stated on the Adam member upgrade plan section -

"Changing plans immediately will result in your card being charged for the Plan Change cost as well as the first months access. Remaining days on your account are forfeited."

It seems no matter what you do you have to pay, hence the customer being screwed over.

lazydesi writes...

I am a bit fair regarding uploading (both on pipe or other) using peer to peer.

That is why I suggested you also use a news server -> minimal upload requirement. Sums look much better then.

tobes2005 writes...

Changing plans immediately will result in your card being charged for the Plan Change cost as well as the first months access. Remaining days on your account are forfeited."

You always pay in advance. This just means you forfeit the "line rental" (about $1/d) then continue as before but with an earlier anniversary date (monthly billing cycle day).
Note "Plan Change cost" is always free to go up. Also free to go down unless you are in contract, then it is $35

Please correct me if i am wrong (sure you will), but isn't the difference between Internode and Adam's plan changes pricing/policy is, with Internode you can't change plans mid-stream - they will only roll over at the commencement of the new month.

If you need extra quota anytime mid-stream with Internode, you need to buy data blocks, but you definitely can't just change plans (at any cost)during the current month's usage.

I believe that is how it works.

In any event, i think Adam's charges are very fair and reasonable, and their service top notch, and have always been willing to assist whenever possible (sometimes impossible) :)

Don't really know why the OP thinks it is unfair, when everything is taken into account.

Edit: I beieve the issue of changing or advancing your billing date to suit your circumstances in relation to quota, has to be discouraged to some extent, for obvious reasons.

tobes2005 writes...

Yes uploading and downloading are both counted. Which ever quota is hit first you are shaped regardless of it being uploading!

This isn't a bad thing, I love it to death. I can litterally go nuts with downloading, uploading and using local data, and not get shaped.

Are you trying to say a system such as Telstra's, where all of your downloads/uploads are counted together, is a better system?

Adam never says you get xMB of downloads, their site says xMB of quota. It's then nicely and generously broken into downloads, local downloads and uploads with unlimited free transfers using CommunityNet!

As for the $35 plan change, it's a wise move. If you think about it, ISPs are there to make money (as with any business). They bet on the customer not using their quota (over allocating). When one pays for what they do not use it is then that money is made. If you pay for 20gb and then use the 20gb, then Adam has broken even.

Allowing you to buy into another month for free would start ticking backwards. Simple maths, really (and has been brought up many times before).

tobes2005 writes...

The simple solution is to offer the customer the RIGHT to roll over without a change to their current plan with no fee. Means more money for ADAM. Or more unhappy customers to come if no solution is made.

Agree completely. If a customer wants to start their next month early Adam shouldn't care at all, in fact Adam should love it! I mean the contract can still end on the same date if thats what adam wants, but the ability to get next month to start on demand would be win/win for everyone. If a customer rolled over 7 days early for every month for a year, that is like paying for 15 months usage in just 12 months.

Or is the issue the credit card processing fee? In which case if a customer wants to roll over early, they can pay the processing fee for that month themselves, it can't be more than like 90 cents, right?

Schlampe writes...

If you pay for 20gb and then use the 20gb, then Adam has broken even.

I seriously doubt that Adam, or ANY isp, sells its customers bandwidth at the same price they buy it with them breaking even. By that logic adam is making a LOSS on plans over 20GB in quota because the higher your quota the cheaper it is for the customer per gigabyte. Absolutely no way, you are WAYYYY off the mark with your assumption on Adams business model.

Danny writes...

If a customer rolled over 7 days early for every month for a year, that is like paying for 15 months usage in just 12 months.

I don't quite see it that way.

For example; 10GB Monthly Plan = 120GB usage for 12 months

10GB Monthly Plan brought forward 7 days each month =
150GB 12months usage = 30GB more for the 12 month period

With an amount payable being just equal to 3 months extra for the extra 30GB = status quo.

It actually works out (over 12 month period) the same as say a plan of about 13GB month for an extra payment of about $12 per month.

It is sort of like Adam saying we will give you at customers discretion an extra 3 GB for $12 if and when you need it.

Of course the above is worked out on a 10GB Plan, and the stats would become more variable with different plans.

I see this as an administrative nightmare, not to mention wrecking havoc with their forward planning strategies.

Adam would actually incur a loss over the more time this continued, as their profit margin would diminish as the cost of this approach increased.

I must be the only person on this forum who can effectivly manage his data so that he has never been shaped once but uses all 20gb.

Danny writes...

By that logic adam is making a LOSS on plans over 20GB in quota

They don't make a loss because many of those at the lower end of the spectrum don't use all their quota.

I'm with Zaraki, I've only ever gone over once and that was for 15 minutes ;-p

It's entireley up to the user to manage their quota and if they one of "those" months, why go kicking and screaming to the teacher to have it fixed up?

Shaping is in place to make it fair for everyone. Pay for 20gb, use 20gb, anything get whilst shaped is a bonus.

As for Danny, do the math - it's not my assumption and it's been brought up countless times before.

lazydesi writes...

To ADAM,
can we expect any good news from your side like Internode?

What good news? They just go round and round in circles over there - /forum-replies.cfm?t=971961#r1 :)

tobes2005 writes...

. I refuse to pay extra to go up in plans from 10GB to 20GB as I will not use it. That still would not solve the issue anyway, as I will still be shaped until my new billing cycle when the account will upgraded.

If you were to Upgrade you Plan immediatley to a higher plan you won't get charged the $35 Dollars and you will get your new quota straight away so i think you need to learn to read before having a sook about nothing working in your way and no one looking out for you and the whole world is against you as what you are stating is wrong. and hell if you do go up in plan you will get three and a half months of use for the equivalent $35 dollars you are assuming you have to pay (which you don't) if you go back down and are in a contract then you will get hit with it and if you are not in a contract you can go back down without cost.

Also have you had a think about if you could constantly roll over your plan every leecher on the planet would be doing it as ISP's buy bandwidth in advance they need to predict how much to buy if you have leechers going as hard as they can and constantly renewing their current plan then that throws the whole thing out the window. therefore as i see it, it is more of an incentive to go up in plans than pay the fee yes for people that only need it once every now and then it sucks but you have Leechers to blame for that.

tobes2005, is this your first month, if so... do a Tuneup, there's no $35 charge, just the difference between teh two plans, it's done immediately.....

As to the other comments about people paying for 20gb and downloading 20gb and breaking even... deffinatly does not work that way...

Adam Internet buy in link size, not per MB/GB...

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ADAM BIASED

Why are you so against Adam you must have thought they were a good enough company to have your business so because you went over your quota and they won't give you a free plan renewal on the same account you hate them?

tobes2005 writes...

THIS APPLIES TO ALL CONTRACT CUSTOMERS. NOT ONLY DO ADAM STATE IT ON THEIR SITE, WHEN YOU CALL THEM THEY ALSO STATE THIS!

only if you want to renew to the same plan not if you go up in plans

psyked writes...

Why are you so against Adam you must have thought they were a good enough company to have your business so because you went over your quota and they won't give you a free plan renewal on the same account you hate them?

Do you work for ADAM?? I just think there is no point in paying money ($35) for nothing. You pay money for something not nothing, why disadvantage someone who can make their own judgment and doesn't want to go to a higher plan.

Selected Service Selected Speed Selected Quota Cost
AdamDirect Up to 24000/1000k Medium (10000 MB/month) $44.95
Plan Change Cost $35

no i don't work for adam .... wish i did but don't as i have been told when i have called them on previous occasion is as i stated before its to stop leechers just constantly renewing plans and hammering the network and therefore an incentive to people that use that much data to go on a more suitable plan.

There is nothing wrong with the above as it protects you by making sure people are on the right quotas and therefore Adam are able to forward plan their bandwidth and not oversell which would really screw you then with paying full price for a substandard connection and them so that they may only lose a couple of customers like your self that are feeling so hard done by and not hundreds of people because of a substandard connection

I quite clearly see where they are coming from with the whole lot and if you still need to download things while you are shaped connect to you Community Net and leech off there if thats what you need to do.

tobes2005 writes...

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ADAM BIASED

probably because 90% of the people in this part of the forums are happy adam customers lol

tobes2005 - you make me wanna slap you!

tobes2005 writes...

"This is stated on the Adam member upgrade plan section -

Yes, it also clarifies that the plan change for an upwards plan change is FREE.
I took a screen cap for your benefit from the plan changer (yes, that's one massive link to the image in question). I am under contract and currently on 40GB. I selected to upgrade to 60GB. And, as you can see from the bottom is does indeed say "Changing plans immediately will result in your card being charged for the plan change cost as well as the first months access. Remaining days on your account are forefeited". However, it also clarifies at the top the "cost" of the "plan change cost, just below the new plan cost.
Most notably; it (very clearly) states that it is free.

Also, from this page:
www.adam.com.au/products..._adam_direct.php
You can see the heading "Plan Change" under the section "Potential Additional costs"
Adam Internet provides a “value guarantee” that preserves your ADSL value throughout the term of your contract. For a single administration fee of $35 you may retain your current contract period but move to a plan which is less than the monetary value of your current plan. If in contract, you can change to a plan that is greater in monetary spend for free*. If out of contract you can change up or down in spend free of charge*.

*Any plan change requiring a change in speed will cost $35

Hoping this clarifies the point that a few other users have tried to make.

Perhaps you may like to retract your (incorrect) statements and rude remarks about other users?

tobes2005 writes...

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ADAM BIASED

Maybe if you stopped writing in caps we would be more friendly. Maybe stop leaching on your plan OR move up one!

NO-U writes...

Adam Internet buy in link size

And if everyone starts using all of their quota and maxing out said link? Adam then buys more to compensate but people are only paying their $35 to reset their billing, not paying more for more quota (as OP is indicating is the fair and honourable way)

Zaraki Kenpachi writes...

Maybe if you stopped writing in caps we would be more friendly.

31. CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.

tobes2005 writes...

As I have download a few movies this month

There is your problem right there.

ADAM has chosen to make a fee for nothing

So you want to be able to download more than what you pay for, and are not happy there is a fee to get unshaped? good luck with your next ISP :)

tobes2005 writes...

As I have download a few movies this month

Next time you by petrol tell them your car's fuel tank did'nt last the full week because of extra country trips you did. I'm sure they will re-fill your tank free of charge.

adsl2exchanges writes...

There is your problem right there.

And here:

tobes2005 writes...

and allowed others to leech from me (as i am kind).

Dude, manage your data better and you won't have a problem, perhaps hit the leechers up for $35 :)

wigwom writes...

Next time you by petrol tell them your car's fuel tank did'nt last the full week because of extra country trips you did. I'm sure they will re-fill your tank free of charge.

Perfect analogy there, really you should be managing your data better instead of complaining about Adam not supplying you with more free leech space.

From what I gather, those of us NOT in contract can go up or down a plan without paying the $35 fee, but do they now charge the fee for changing to the same plan (resetting our quota/billing date)?

I've "reset" my plan a few times since being with Adam (to get unshaped and had my billing date changed), and was never charged the $35 fee for changing to the same plan I was currently on.

As far as I know (and going by what's on Adam's website), the $35 fee ONLY applies to those in contract wishing to go down to a cheaper plan, or those on ADSL1 that require a change in speed.

Adam Internet provides a “value guarantee” that preserves your ADSL value throughout the term of your contract. For a single administration fee of $35 you may retain your current contract period but move to a plan which is less than the monetary value of your current plan. If in contract, you can change to a plan that is greater in monetary spend for free*. If out of contract you can change up or down in spend free of charge*.

*Any plan change requiring a change in speed will cost $35

It doesn't mention anything about changing to the same plan!

Graffin writes...

It doesn't mention anything about changing to the same plan!

www.adam.com.au/legal/dsl.php *whistles* (Other DSL Related Charges)

adsl2exchanges writes...

There is your problem right there.

So you want to be able to download more than what you pay for, and are not happy there is a fee to get unshaped? good luck with your next ISP :)

Have you even read the entire post?

All I have asked to do is to be able to roll over my account sooner! Why be disadvantage to go to the same plan and have to pay $35. when if I was using my quota in less then the month it means Adam could get more out of me per year. Just to clarify I was shaped as I went over my Upload quota.

theduke82 writes...

tobes2005 - you make me wanna slap you!

Try it. Please ....This is some of the reason for retaliation, because of childish users.

wigwom writes...

Next time you by petrol tell them your car's fuel tank did'nt last the full week because of extra country trips you did. I'm sure they will re-fill your tank free of charge.

This is not the debate! Read the entire thread.

Zaraki Kenpachi writes...

really you should be managing your data better instead of complaining about Adam not supplying you with more free leech space.

I thought this was a forum open to debate!

I do manage my quota normally but have never run into this problem of exceeding my upload quota. Now read what I am really asking!

You signed up for a MONTHLY plan, not a "However so long as I feel like it" plan. The quotas in your plan are meant for a month, if you feel you're going to have to keep restarting your quota you're probably best to go to a higher plan anyway.

Schlampe writes...

www.adam.com.au/legal/dsl.php *whistles* (Other DSL Related Charges)

Cheers Schlampe, I didn't see that one.

Perhaps they should mention the change to same plan on their other pages, as I didn't see it on adam.com.au/products_home_adam_direct.php or adam.com.au/products_home_homeadsl.php

Oh well... at least I know now!

But, why have they changed it?

Why slug us $35 on top of what we pay per month, just to bring the billing date forward and "reset" our quota earlier? Since we can only change plans once every 30 days (I think it is), it's not like we can abuse the system. We're still paying for the data, and I can't see how Adam would be making a loss from users "resetting" their plans.

I guess if I go over my 40Gb, I stay shaped or go up to the next plan (60GB) which is $30 more a month. And, because i'd performed the plan change, I would be locked into the higher plan for another month before I could drop back down to my 40Gb plan. Think i'd rather stay shaped!

But seriously, it's an automated system isn't it? Does it require any human intervention to change the billing date if we choose to "reset" our plan earlier? What is this $35 fee for? Ridiculous. Same plan. Same data. It's not like we're trying to rip Adam off. I hope Adam reconsiders the change to same plan fee. It wasn't there last time I "reset" my plan!

Graffin writes...

Perhaps they should mention the change to same plan on their other pages

Maybe because that's what the schedule of fees is for? Presumably to outline all costs associated with various services with Adam.

Graffin writes...

What is this $35 fee for?

You mean that question hasn't been answered yet! :(

I think Solymr summed it up nicely.

Graffin writes...

What is this $35 fee for?

Quota plans are cheaper per GB than use as you go. The reason for this is they have factored in an allowance for the average user not using all of their quota.

(To a first approximation plan pricing is $1/day + $1/GB
where as pay as you go is closer to $2+/GB)

Cheaper fixed plan data costing relies on people selecting plans greater than their monthly data requirement.

Any change which means the average user uses more of there quota will need to be accompanied by a price rise for that plan.

I assume Adam has worked out the $1/day forfeited "line rental" from early reset does not cover many users covering the average month on a lower plan.

The logic behind charging to move down a plan is similar. It is again encouraging you to select a plan greater than your average monthly needs.

There are alternatives.
Adam could charge $150/GB for excess data like Bigpond
Or not tell you how much of your credit you have used like many mobile phone plans, & charge a high rate for excess calls.

It is cruel but that is how fixed quantity plans work. The supplier can offer them at a cheaper rate because most users will not uses all their entitlement.

That is also the reason ISP do not like leachers / meter watches - they regularly use all their quota.

patch1

I reckon you summed it up perfectly.

in all sense people need to look at it from both sides of the customer-business equation once people have done that then i think they will see what and why things are done for.

Anthony-W writes...

They don't make a loss because many of those at the lower end of the spectrum don't use all their quota.

Man its been a long weekend. Anyway, I just need to put a stop to this absurd claim that if you use all of your 20GB quota that Adam is making a loss. That is $2.75 per gigabyte on the 20GB cap, $1.40. That means, according to you, that if you use all of your 80Gb cap that Adam is making a HUGE loss because of you.

I have no idea why you are even saying these things, it is safe to assume that Adam is making a profit on every single customer. That is how business works.

And wholesale data does NOT cost $2.75 per GB, it is actually much much less than that if you can find a service that will give you a quote.

Still going around in circles!

Also, now getting OT - The OP questioned the $35 to change plan, to which there have been (some) good responses.

Danny writes...

That means, according to you, that if you use all of your 80Gb cap that Adam is making a HUGE loss because of you.

Actually, it is true, as they work in a business of averages... so does internode..

Internode raised their prices last year for this exact reason, because customers (leeching ones at that) where using ALL of their quota, every month, which was working against a averages per customer, which was bringing internode into making a loss for those customers...

They raised their prices, a percentage of their leechers went away, and since then their prices have come back down...

Now, this same rule can (I am not saying it does) apply to adam if a large percentage of their customer base did the same thing that happened on Internode.

And as I said in a previous post, ISP's dont by in MB's, or GB's... they buy in Mbps or Gbps....

However they need to..

A) Purchase enough transit capacity so there is no congestion a peak time (ofcourse, it averages to be lower then peak bandwidth)
B) Purchase enough backgaul capacity so there is no congestion a peak time (ofcourse, it averages to be lower then peak bandwidth) / Make sure their Telstra AGVC Link is of high enough capacity for the same reason..

This is why it's calculated in averages per customer.

Danny writes...

I just need to put a stop to this absurd claim that if you use all of your 20GB quota that Adam is making a loss.

It's nothing personal but think about it. If you were running an ISP would you want a bunch of customers pushing the bounds of your plans, downloading 100% of their updload, PIPE and external quota. Or would you prefer customers who mostly used less than 50% of their external quota and a tiney fraction of PIPE and upload quota.

I know which customer group I would aim for ;)

Danny writes...

That is $2.75 per gigabyte on the 20GB cap

Thats not how plans work. Each plan has a cost for the service (port cost) and then data. The way you say $2.75 per GB sounds like a 1GB plan would cost $2.75. When in reality it is around $20 for the port (cost for the DSLAM, access your copper line, power, air conditioning,backhaul etc etc) and then your data.

Simple $ / GB is very misleading. Although i wouldn't mind a 1GB plan for $2.75.

Everyone knows that ISPs are based on averages (thats why some offer huge/free off peak data, to average their transit link out). Keep going over quota means averages increase and thus price increases (or advantages decrease).

I have no idea why you are even saying these things, it is safe to assume that Adam is making a profit on every single customer. That is how business works.

There is no way any ISP would make money on 100% of its customers. And it is proven when Simon Hackett has said that they lose money on the $29.95 256k entry level plan. They offer it hoping people upgade to a plan that they have a better chance of making money on.

adsl2exchanges writes...

Thats not how plans work. Each plan has a cost for the service (port cost) and then data. The way you say $2.75 per GB sounds like a 1GB plan would cost $2.75. When in reality it is around $20 for the port (cost for the DSLAM, access your copper line, power, air conditioning,backhaul etc etc) and then your data.

I just said it for simplicity. I could have said that it costs them X out of 55 dollars for the 20GB plan and Y out of the 110dollar plan for the 80GB plan, so because Y is much less expensive than X per amount of data divided by cost of X/Y (we will call this amount Z), and they are already making a loss on X, then they therefore must be making an even bigger loss on X (or the same loss if the customer only uses half of his Y allowance, because comparatively using even just half of Y still gives you a loss when you look at Z). And when you consider that the cost of both X and Y both equally have to have that 20 dollars in port costs not factored in, that gives you even GREATER disparity between the true data costs of X and Y, which means that Adam would take a loss even if a customer only used a THIRD of their Y allowance.

Of course I could have used all that X Y stuff, but that would have been confusing. So anyway, assuming that you have to take away 20 dollars for port fees that would mean that 20 GB costs adam 35 dollars (which for some reason someone said is a loss to Adam). So 80GB at the true data cost of 90 dollars is an even bigger loss.

Are you seriously not seeing the giant flaw in your logic? Not to mention that Adam actually counts on people going over their quota and being shaped, so all that shaped data is bringing Adams losses even higher. If Adam was counting on me only using 7GB of my 80GB quota to turn over a profit then Adam are foolish. People who pay extra for higher quotas will use that extra quota, otherwise they would have just chosen a lower quota plan to begin with.

Whatever made you think that Adam makes a loss on their plans if the user uses their quota?

adsl2exchanges writes...

There is no way any ISP would make money on 100% of its customers

Perhaps back in the day of unlimited quotas, but these days all quotas are fixed price.

I think nobody has the slightest clue, really and I doubt Adam will put their business model up on Whirlpool for people to see it. So let's leave it like this:

Adam have their reasons for charging what they do
Said charges are in plain sight and you know about them before you're charged
Adam are entitled to charge you whatever they deem necessary
You either pay that figure, or deal with the shaping imposed on your account because of your use of it

You pay for Xgb, you use Xgb, you're shaped for it. Simple. Let Adam work on how they make their money and their viability.

Personally, I'd like to see it move to a next cycle only thing, thus removing the ability for people to whinge over $35!

Out of interest this was my old ISP, who is a reseller of ADAM.

www.momentuminternet.com.au/?pg=micap_home

"Plan Change
FREE Is the plan you're on not meeting your initial requirements? At Betta Momentum, we offer plan changes at no cost to you. You can do this at any time whilst with Betta Momentum and the change is only a phone call away. When you call us, you will have your current plan rollover to the new one at the start of your next billing cycle."

Also no upload limit.

When comparing Adam to Betta Momentum, I did note the $189 relocation and $90 disconnection (plus $65 if in the first 6 months) from ADSL2+ fees as opposed to Adam's $99 relocation and $45 NAF (Network Access Fee when disconnecting from ADSL2+).

Where you might win out with Betta Momentum in one (very small) area, you do save a lot more in others with Adam. To be honest, I'm on an 80 gig plan. I get shaped pretty much every month, but I deal with it. I knew Adam's fees and conditions when I signed up and I accepted and agreed to them. Would I love to restart my quota for free? Sure thing. But I knew what I agreed to when I signed up and I accept that.

tobes2005 writes...

Also no upload limit.

Then why'd you leave?

tobes2005 writes...

who is a reseller of ADAM.

No they are not...

They purchase wholesale from AdNAP, they dont just 'resell' Adam Products, they can have their own product line up, with their own options/terms/quota's etc...

They may just choose to be similiar to adam's plan offerings.

tobes2005 writes...

When you call us, you will have your current plan rollover to the new one at the start of your next billing cycle

Correct me if I'm wrong... but does that not mean it'll be reset at the next billing cycle? I dont read that anywhere as saying they'll reset it early for you.

Just one more quick question because you seem to know an incredible amount about plan changes and how much it charges companies to allocate extra data to your account...

I'm with three mobile.. i often break my phone cap... can I phone them up and get them to bring my billing forward? If so that'd be awesome.
If not... well. Pie to your face. (Although in reality the pie is to mine as I am paying the bill)

Edit: I dont actually expect an answer to that question, im not trying to change the topic but im trying to illustrate a point and learn a bit more

hypothetical situation:

genericISP1 offers 50 units of data for $75 a month.

GenericISP2 offers 50 units of data for $60 a month, to be competetive.

the overhead costs are $20 a month, the data costs $1 a unit.

if every customer used 50 units the company would make a loss of $10.

however every customer doesnt.

say the average is 30 units of data. on average the ISP would make $10 per customer (and the shareholders even less once you take into account employee costs and other head office expenses)

the customers that do use their quota every month and want more pay a $30 fee to change the billing date forward. this covers the $10 loss from the previous month, the high possibility of a loss on the next month and the $10 average profit they would usually get from an average customer.

I dont know how Adam operate their business but it makes sense to me.

tobes2005 (quoting momentum internet) writes...

"...When you call us, you will have your current plan rollover to the new one at the start of your next billing cycle

It has sort of already been touched on, but that pretty much proves the point as with the Adam changeover system. They (Momentum) say you can CHANGE plans (not keep the same one) and they will ( seemingly; based on that quote ) only allow you to do it with your new billing cycle. They won't even allow you to take your new plan straight away like Adam does and they won't (under any circumstance it seems) let you reset your billing date earlier.

So really it just supports the suggestion that it isn't reasonable to expect Adam to reset your quota for nothing and in fact re-enforces the fact that Adam are doing pretty well for their customers with their current level of flexibility.

In summary;
Momentum:
No immediate plan change option
No billing reset.

Adam:
Immediate or delayed plan change (your choice)
Billing reset for $35 if you're desperate.

i'm amazed this is still going on after a week haven't there been enough people describe how things work with ISP's and Smiddy's so far being the simplest and most accurate of them all.

And all in all tobes2005 why did you come to adam if you were from what you thought already get adam just under a different name with things that were cheaper or better in your eyes at bettamomentum? <<< Just a question.

Smiddy writes...

genericISP1 offers 50 units of data for $75 a month.

GenericISP2 offers 50 units of data for $60 a month, to be competetive.

the overhead costs are $20 a month, the data costs $1 a unit.

if every customer used 50 units the company would make a loss of $10.

however every customer doesnt.

Still makes no sense. Sure ISP2 offers 50 units of data for $60 a month, but what if they also offered 100 units of data for $80 (or a 50 percent discount per GB compared to the original plan) a month? If someone chose the 100 units plan then it is safe to assume that they plan to use use at least 50 of it (or else they would have chosen the cheaper 50 plan). So it is also safe to assume that ISP2 will lose money on the 100 unit plan.

Adams 80GB plan IS 50percent cheaper per GB to the customer compared to the 40GB plan (more than 50 percent if you take off overhead), so if someone chooses the large plan then they will probably use half of it, meaning that Adam is probably making a loss on most of its customers.

Which is obviously a fallacy when you think about real world business, which means you are wrong Wrong WRONG.

Also not to mention Adams Double Data Bonus (tm), if a customer uses uses all of their download quota and most of their upload quota then that customer would be raping Adam into a double loss per GB. Also if you use your quota you are shaped, but still able to download data, which means you have tripled raped Adams wallet. Also if you go for Adams 80GB package and use it all then you are getting your GBs at half the price of the 40GB package, which means two times the loss, or SIX times rapage to the accounting department. Are you seeing how wrong you were yet?