mce writes...

My bet is on Netspace.

Ditto.

mce writes...

My bet is on Netspace.

I would agree also. I'm not sure if that would necessarily be a good acquisition though.

Pete.

Brad Peczka writes...

Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets...

I am going for the comedy option of Exetel.

Uradox writes...

Going international!!

Actually this is not as far fetched as it may seem.

They have done it before with iHug in NZ (I think) and they are talking up their support offices in South Africa, so maybe a S.A. provider???

mce writes...

Actually this is not as far fetched as it may seem

I will try harder next time!! :(

Hstroyer writes...

Bigpond! ....

hahaha ... that one I would like to see as well

oldman writes...

Whatever it is the market doesn't seem to think much of it.

My understanding is that trade is halted so how could the market have an 'opinion' as of yet if they are unable to purchase/sell shares?

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

I just heard it might be Internode.

LOL, are you serious? There's no way it would be Internode. I'd give that a scale of 0 out of 10 on possibility :) That's like saying they're buying Optus.

Hstroyer writes...

Bigpond! ....

Well I know iinet's call centre has been bad... perhaps it has already happened... just kidding the call centre has improved so no not Bigpond

MickJT writes...

There's no way it would be Internode. That's like saying they're buying Optus.

How so? Internode wouldn't be any bigger in customer count than Westnet.

Matteh. writes...

how could the market have an 'opinion' as of yet if they are unable to purchase/sell shares?

You are not a share trader are you?
Otherwise you would have observed that there are frequently big moves in the market before major announcements.
Somebody knows and takes a punt in the days before major action.
I know that its illegal but it happens all the time.

Edit: bugger beaten by 1444.

1444 writes...

It was trading during the day so insiders would have known about the capital raising which will lead to dilution.

Insider trading?

LordTemplar III Esq. writes...

They could be selling out !!

the announcement says that they are making an acquisition and raising capital.

LordTemplar III Esq. writes...

could be the other way around

The announcement says otherwise.

stocknessmonster.com/new...ASX&N=405850

CJ writes...

Internode wouldn't be any bigger in customer count than Westnet.

It's not just about customer base, they deploy their own DSLAMs, set up their own infrastructure, have very high regard for their phone service, etc.. Sure, Westnet has probably done that too, but I think Internode is just on a grander scale and I don't think is going to be bought out any time soon.

what's up skip writes...

There is the possibility that it is not an ISP or Australian entity.

Exactly. Any content networks in trouble that need a bailout?
Web hosting companies?

Why not even put a hardware company in there. Netcomm?

Spanrz writes...

Interesting how PIPENETWORKS went into a Trading Halt the other day.
Interesting they are doing the same thing as iiNet, virtually on the same day.

Even more interesting was what they said at the time about iiNet....

Bevan writes...

They'd probably have to go into halt too if we were doing something. I can remember last time we went into halt, Amcom went into halt at the same time. Conspiracy theories went wild.

Perhaps the next conspiracy theory will be that they're both raising capital to bring down an even bigger target. :)

Igneous writes...

Perhaps the next conspiracy theory will be that they're both raising capital to bring down an even bigger target. :)

Hahaha, PIPE are working on submarine cables and "other ventures", but hopefully will provide a good competition to other suppliers of O/S cables.
Maybe iiNet and PIPE are having a O/S cable on their own.... Completely take out TELSTRA and SLOPTUS! Well most of it. :)
We all know, iiNet uses Singtel.

stustock2004 writes...

I wonder if it's something completely out of left field - like pulling out of G9 or not being part of the NBN tender.

The announcement refers to acquisition and capital raising, so it is not one of these.

Doesn't look like its Pipe networks as they are not in a halt.

Doesn't Powertel own part of iiNet?
I suppose it could be a back door listing.

what's up skip writes...

Doesn't Powertel own part of iiNet?
I suppose it could be a back door listing

No need for that, Powertel was delisted last year when AAPT/Telecom NZ bought them

what's up skip writes...

The announcement refers to acquisition and capital raising, so it is not one of these.

May help to explain why G9 have not appointed NBN bidding chair.

what's up skip writes...

The announcement refers to acquisition and capital raising, so it is not one of these.

Capital raising = Opening up of more Shares?

Doesn't look like its Pipe networks as they are not in a halt.

/forum-replies.cfm?t=371347&p=13#r246
(0-o)

tafkas writes...

Powertel was delisted last year when AAPT/Telecom NZ bought them

Thanks, I couldn't remember who ate whom.

Shizlmynizel writes...

I also think westnet

I'd rank Westnet fairly down the totem pole in terms of probability. They have no infrastructure, they're just a reseller. If iiNet bought them, they'd end up with thousands of new, relatively unprofitable customers (compared to their on-network customer base) on Telstra and Optus wholesale services, and migrating them to iiNet's equipment would cost a fortune. They'd also have to take on low margin services that iiNet has no experience with, like satellite. iiNet hasn't show much interest in going rural, I can't imagine why they'd change now.

TPG is right out because the customers that go to TPG aren't the customers iiNet wants.

I'd go with Netspace, maybe Adam even. Whoever it is I'd say it's highly likely they'll have their own DSLAM rollout using compatible infrastructure (eg. Ericsson equipment, not Siemens or Alcatel).

the penguin writes...

ii hope it's Internode.

lol? You not serious are you?

Ovalteen writes...

migrating them to iiNet's equipment would cost a fortune.

The cost of the migration is small compared to the increase in margin they would obtain. Remember they would get some sort of bulk discount.

They'd also have to take on low margin services that iiNet has no experience with, like satellite.

They could just sell this unit off.

Netspace could be an option as they have been very slow with the ADSL 2+ migration.

TPG is right out because the customers that go to TPG aren't the customers iiNet wants.

TPG are in a back door listing process as well.

I don't think Adam would be big enough to require additional capital.

MD351 writes...

You not serious are you?

iiNet has about 220,000 broadband customers.

Internode passed the 100,000 mark in 2007.

The companies would be a good fit imo.

the penguin writes...

The companies would be a good fit imo.

True, it would be a good fit.

But I didn't think Internode would be wanting to sell anytime soon.

the penguin writes...

iiNet has about 220,000 broadband customers.

Internode passed the 100,000 mark in 2007.

The companies would be a good fit imo.

In some respects I can see this. iiNet's network and customer service has improve greatly over the last couple of years. Internode has made a couple of bad PR moves and their customer service slipped at bit.

Internode is more business focused, but iiNet has finally release Annex M to chase some of the same market.

I have a feeling they use different DSLAM. If this is the case it would make things more difficult.

Some very different management styles:
Internode - no peak/off peak, almost no advertising
iiNet - Peak/ Off Peak - significant advertising

What ever happens, I just hope iiNet don't take the eye off the main game and cause us all problems.

what's up skip writes...

I have a feeling they use different DSLAM. If this is the case it would make things more difficult.

They use the same type of DSLAM.

Brad Amm writes...

Both companies heavily depend on Telstra. Buying a Telstra Based ISP would be pointless.

Erm, Westnet perhaps, but calling Internode heavily dependent on Telstra? No.

Moonman writes...

but calling Internode heavily dependent on Telstra? No.

Internode's DSLAM rollout is not that extensive, at least outside SA. They would have a MUCH higher proportion of their broadband customers on TW hardware than iiNet would.

I don't believe Internode is for sale however.

Shizlmynizel writes...

I also think westnet

There are two westnet, both with fairly big customer base, although the westnet.com is much bigger than the other one, so, which one?

Whirpoolian writes...

There are two westnet, both with fairly big customer base, although the westnet.com is much bigger than the other one, so, which one?

I guess he's meaning the one that also posts on this forum.

MD351 writes...

I guess he's meaning the one that also posts on this forum.

Westnet.net.au .. I believe it is different than Westnet.com.au? both are ISPs? with significant customer base? Might be wrong though .. never heard of westnet.net.au until now .. when i want to browse to westnet.com.au, but ended up at westnet.net.au website.

Whirpoolian writes...

I would however, think that they would be looking to acquire a 'medium' sized company with around 10k-50k customer at a time ..

Not many company with that kind of size ... anyone got the list :)?

Another question I have is will it be another WA-based provider like Up 'n' Away? Or will it be one based somewhere else in Australia with other logistical problems, i.e datacentre integration, call centres, etc.

I personally put my moolah on Westnet.

what's up skip writes...

Doesn't look like its Pipe networks as they are not in a halt.

We're not? Crap. Where's the ASX's fax number!!!

[b]

Of course I'm joking :)

Fast is good writes...

I wouldn't be surprised if it somehow involved a company or ISP with MSAN technology.....

Interesting. iiNet did try an MSAN rollout but they seemed to not want to go through with it, which makes me think they have the capability to turn around to their hardware wholesaler and "make it so" if they really wanted to go down that route. But the only ISPs I know which have their own MSANs are Optus, AAPT and iPrimus (I think), all of who are extremely unlikely to get bought out.

JoeyC writes...

But the only ISPs I know which have their own MSANs are Optus, AAPT and iPrimus (I think), all of who are extremely unlikely to get bought out.

And EFTel/aaNet, but as they are not in a trading halt aswell, it isn't them.

? Fungus ? writes...

Say they buy a small ISP, but need the extra money for another big project.

already done with UpNAway... so that rules that out. there wasnt much hype about the UnA take over as it was practically an internal company as UnA were a Chime reseller which is iiNet anyways

so its realistically a few options

1- PIPE & iiNet money merger to have enough capital to take over a large enough ISP out there in the private sector

2 - PIPE & iiNet trading halt is just a freak coincidence - possible but who knows

3 - iinet are in the final stages of a takeover of westnet/aaNet/netspace... (insert xISP) etc

i guess we'll all find out soon enough. unless any iiReps or anyone with internal info would elaborate 2 seconds after handing in their resignation :D

edit - 4- iiPIPE total merger for taking out all private ISP's :D

~|c00kie|~ writes...

edit - 4- iiPIPE total merger for taking out all private ISP's :D

Hah. Why stop there?

"iiPIPE would like to announce their merger with leading inter-connection carrier Equinix." :P

Moonman writes...

And EFTel/aaNet, but as they are not in a trading halt aswell, it isn't them.

Does it have to be a public company though?

~|c00kie|~ writes...

so its realistically a few options

1- PIPE & iiNet money merger to have enough capital to take over a large enough ISP out there in the private sector

2 - PIPE & iiNet trading halt is just a freak coincidence - possible but who knows

no PWK halt at the present time? i think that rules those out :P

JoeyC writes...

But the only ISPs I know which have their own MSANs are Optus, AAPT and iPrimus

We, being EFTel/aaNet are in the process of rolling out our MSAN based network to an initial 70 exchanges, as part of phase one of our network rollout. This will of course continue to other viable exchanges as we complete each phase.

Another ISP using an MSAN base for their network is TPG.

Jason

JoeyC writes...

TPG would be safe I imagine

to take TPG, the borg will have to take out SOUL..

~|c00kie|~ writes...

to take out SOUL.

aah SOUL :)

~|c00kie|~ writes...

to take TPG, the borg will have to take out SOUL..

And they are not in a trading halt, meaning TPG is out of the question.

? Fungus ? writes...

And they are not in a trading halt, meaning TPG is out of the question.

indeed

Fast is good writes...

Maybe iiNet aren't taking over an ISP but are refinancing to upgrade all their DSLAMs with MSAN technology....

Buying a small ISP, and then financing MSANs in one go?

I reckon we have to go back to saying Westnet. I mean could all those rumours last week be just a coincidence?

Brad Amm writes...

It would cost too much to move the customers of Telstra's network.

Not forgetting of course that one of the purposes of iiNet's largest acquisiton thus far was to give them scale on their DSLAM network.

That is - many thousands of OzEmail users were migrated to iiNet infrastructure following the acquisition. This had the added benefit that many previously unprofitable exchanges, became profitable.

A primarily metro ISP running a combination of Telstra wholesale ports and their own would be a good fit for iiNet. Given that we known iiNet has a not-insignificant amount of cash in the bank, the capital raising may indicate the target is on the larger side,

At the risk of fuelling the rumour mill, I'd love to think Soul who've been a bit wishy-washy as far as profits go lately, but that could be a bit hard to digest.

Their strategy, generally, has been to 'stick with what they're good at', which was previously dial, though these days is generally residential and SOHO DSL, and VoIP. I'd love to say this is still the strategy, but I've been out for nearly 9 months now.

My bet: If it's an ISP, Netspace (Vic) or Adam (SA), though I wouldn't have thought that raising capital was a necessity for either. A larger presence in SA wouldn't hurt, and iiNet are in a good position to take 'Node head on in South Australia if they've got the existing customer-base there too. Then again, I could just be blowing smoke....

Jas.

Jason Backshall writes...

My bet: If it's an ISP, Netspace (Vic) or Adam (SA)

Please bet on one only :P

Shaun Max writes...

I really wish iiNet got their backend systems in order before taking over anybody significant.

Rumba isn't that bad, surely... ;-)

-B.

Brad Peczka writes...

Rumba isn't that bad, surely... ;-)

It's not.

While it's certainly had it's moments, take a moment to compare it to many of the other platforms out there in use today. It leaves most of them for dead.

Don't forget we're talking about a fully-automated, integrated billing, provisioning and account management system here. There's an awful lot that *could* go wrong with such a system, and all things considered it does (did?) a fantastic job.

Given that iiNet's been in the acquisition game for a while, we'd had the chance to see many of the other systems out there. OzEmail's was so-so, and while IHug's 'TheProgram' did the job, don't even start on the interface.

Jason.

Whirpoolian writes...

Please bet on one only :P

Well I'm now betting for neither! But I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now ;)

J.

1444 writes...

I can't see any other telco's in a trading halt so I presume it's not a public company.

Internode.

the penguin writes...

iiNet has about 100,000 iiPhone customers all paying around $30 a month for line rental.

They could all be potentially cut over to MSANs.

Perhaps they need a much higher customer base to fully rationalize that?

1444 writes...

Amcom has just gone into a halt

Possibly because they own 19% or so of iiNet and will presumably be affected by the takeover? A reverse takeover of Amcom seems unlikely, but what do we know? :)

Igneous writes...

Possibly because they own 19%

Yep, 'bit surprised they didn't go in last night.

1444 writes...

Amcom has just gone into a halt

Could iiNet be buying back the 19% stake that AMM have?

bugs writes...

Could iiNet be buying back the 19% stake that AMM have?

Me thinks that iiNet is being bought by a 'big' Telco. Because AMM owns 19% it also is selling its stake.

Could it be possibly Tel$tra?

mirage writes...

Could it be possibly Tel$tra?

The ACCC would never allow it, just as they'd never allow Optus to do the same. They have strong feelings about market domination and previously told Telstra to back off when they were looking at purchasing OzEmail, as well as Optus' bid to takeover AAPT.

mirage writes...

Me thinks that iiNet is being bought by a 'big' Telco.

The document submitted to the ASX refers to "acquisition and capital raising".

There is no advantage. Telstra would save more money just crushing iiNet with it's dominance and omnipotence rather then acquire a bunch of customers and equipment and staffs they don't even want anyway.

Igneous writes...

Possibly because they own 19% or so of iiNet and will presumably be affected by the takeover?

Futuris, like Amcom, also owns an equal amount of ii-shares and is not in a halt.

Igneous writes...

The ACCC would never allow it,

Do they still regulate the telco sector? I thought they gave up when Conroy took over communications....much easier to let Telstra do what they like.

1444 writes...

Do they still regulate the telco sector? I thought they gave up when Conroy took over communications....much easier to let Telstra do what they like.

Telstra could walk up to the ACCC offices and let rip with a mango sized dump on the front office desk and the ACCC would still debate what it is and what they are going to do about it for 2 years.

Igneous writes...

told Telstra to back off when they were looking at purchasing OzEmail, as well as Optus' bid to takeover AAPT.

At that time OzEmail was 'big'. And so was AAPT.

But I think, I agree with your assessment.

bugs writes...

Could iiNet be buying back the 19% stake that AMM have?

Not likely.

AMM just bought another 1% of iiNet last month. In fact AMM now owns close to 23% on IIN.

Ken Richards. writes...

tomorrow you will

not tomorrow. May 8 it says on the halt announce.

mirage writes...

AMM just bought another 1% of iiNet last month. In fact AMM now owns close to 23% on IIN.

I am still betting on a takeover of iinet. e.g. The trading halt statement says iient is in a halt due to talks about a capital raising.

Hypothetically and theoretically is the capital being raised is coming from an existing "large shareholder" and the capital raising pushed the shareholder over the control threshold. Then in effect you have iinet being bought out.
is AMM in a trading halt ?? - hmmm, there is your possible answer, however note that AMM is 1/3 the size of IIN, therefore any takeover by AMM of IIN would be a fairly large bite.

mirage writes...

May 8 it says on the halt announce.

Possibly sooner if they release the announcement prior to the start of trading on May 8, as per the ASX notice. Not likely to be today though, as these things take time.

LordTemplar III Esq. writes...

is AMM in a trading halt ?? - hmmm, there is your possible answer, however note that AMM is 1/3 the size of IIN, therefore any takeover by AMM of IIN would be a fairly large bite.

Yup - www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20...8zg20w5hyj09.pdf

-B.

Brad Peczka writes...

Yup - www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20...8zg20w5hyj09.pdf

I consider that the AMM & IIN announcements to be related, if not highly coincidental. I will go out on a limb and suggest "MERGER"

cyberwealth writes...

Both IIN & AMM announcements, mention capital raising

With IIN also mentioning an acquisition. That suggests:
- IIN is acquiring something
- IIN is raising capital, principally from AMM, to pay for said acquisition
- AMM may also be raising capital to pay for the capital it's going to pump into IIN

That suggests it's a fairly large acquisition.