This is just a quick poll to see what the general WP community feels like. Is our forum over moderated? Are mods to harsh? Are we under moderated? Are our mods too lenient in some areas? Do they show bias? Do we have too many rules that restrict our ability to put forward our opinions? Do you think we (the users) have enough input as to how things are run?

Please note that this is not an opportunity to bash mods. Please refrain from singling out moderators by naming them. Keep criticism (if any) constructive.

Blu` writes...

This is just a quick poll to see what the general WP community feels like.

My personal experiences with the Moderation team have been very positive.

I have had lots of inappropriate posts deleted, but in each case I have been provided with an informative valid explanation.

My rate of post deletions is declining, I think because I now have a better understanding of the 'rules'. - (I'm a slow learner)

A very important point for me, is when I whim a mode asking for advice, I don't get a curt 2 word response, but rather a reasonably detailed one, which I appreciate especially considering they are giving of their own personal time towards the betterment of Whirlpool.

For this I think that the Moderation team are to be applauded, rather than criticized. imho

Cheers

the moderation, like the design is one of the negatives of WP.

i put up with both because of the quality of discourse and the informative, helpful info that gets posted.

Blu` writes...

Is our forum over moderated? Are mods to harsh? Are we under moderated? Are our mods too lenient in some areas?

In my opinion the level of moderation on Whirlpool is well balanced. The rules work well to keep the discussion flowing and on topic.

Do they show bias?

Yes, very much so. We can't expect too much though, they are volunteers, not paid professionals.

Do we have too many rules that restrict our ability to put forward our opinions?

I believe it's possible to put forward pretty much any opinion without breaking rules, so no.

Do you think we (the users) have enough input as to how things are run?

Certainly not. Nor should we. Democracy on such a small scale never works.

Blu` writes...

Is our forum over moderated?

No - though I can only speak for what I have seen, of course.

Are mods to harsh?

No, not from what i've seen.

Are we under moderated?

No. I think the moderation is quite well balances

Are our mods too lenient in some areas?

No - not from what i've seen, anyway

Do we have too many rules that restrict our ability to put forward our opinions?

I've been able to put my opinion forward many times and have not had my post deleted. So, no.

Do you think we (the users) have enough input as to how things are run?

Well, it's not really our forum. Simon designed it, built it from scratch, it fair that he gets to decide how it is run. But we get a bit of input - if we come up with a good enough idea, it will probably be implemented.

I like the way they don't allow abusive posts, that keeps the tone positive and makes Whirlpool unique.

However, I do raise an eyebrow sometimes when there's an active, positive discussion going on, and suddenly it's closed or deleted as being 'not a suitable subject'. Sometimes there's 3 + pages of talk before this happens!

xnor writes...

Certainly not. Nor should we. Democracy on such a small scale never works.

Some would be surprised on how many opinions are actually taken onboard and implemented from this forum area alone. Sub forum ideas are only one idea that I can quickly think of at the top of my head.....
Not that we actually read this area much. :-)

that was sarcasm, by the way. This is probably the most read forum by moderators as a whole

I don't think it's my place to question it, it is what it is. It is easy to feel affronted if your opinion is misunderstood, or not welcome, but it's the internet - what does it matter? Nothing turns on it.

Overall, I'd have to say it's just right because I'm here all the time:). On other forums, I find reading pages of some petty spat between forum members or unhelpful "look at me!" type posts instead of responsive replies is a major pain in the neck and I wish somebody would come along and mark them "inappropriate" or "pointless" or "off-topic".

The only thing I wonder about is the basis for the "not lifestyle lounge material" deletions. From the titles, some of the ones that stay seem as lightweight (or whatever) as the ones that get rejected. I'd be too scared to start anything in there because I'd be crushed if it wasn't lifestyle lounge material :D

Generally speaking the moderators do a great job.

The environment does have a problem though. There are people that spend all day trolling other users, but do so in a way where they walk the fine line and no that as long as they thinly veil their nonsense, they will get away with it.

I think intent really needs to be taken more into consideration.

It seems like there are people who only post in the 'off topic' forums, and these people typically annoy me.

Mark^Bastard writes...

It seems like there are people who only post in the 'off topic' forums, and these people typically annoy me.

Curious: Why does that annoy you?

J.

Johnno writes...

Curious: Why does that annoy you?

I see the lounges, mainly in the news, as a place where you can go and talk a bit after you have been constructive in other areas of the forum. People that only ever post in 'in the news' in particular seem to waste a hell of a lot of time with circle arguments and thinly veiled trolling. This happens to the point that it becomes unattractive to post there.

I have nothing against gamers posting in the gaming lounge for example.

In the news to me is just the old coffee lounge + a bit of red tape. Same atmosphere, but you have to include an obligatory link and comment in your opening post.

Mark^Bastard writes...

I think intent really needs to be taken more into consideration.

The issue there is that intent is very difficult to prove. Thus, there's a very fine line between operating transparently and able to back up decisions, and being perceived as just making subjective calls and/or moderating posts/posters because of personal bias (particularly in ItN as you refer to).

Mark^Bastard writes...

as a place where you can go and talk a bit after you have been constructive in other areas of the forum.

I'm not really technically minded.

I came here looking for advice on what laptop to buy. I ended up buying a Mac after extensively reading through the Apple forum. Without Whirlpool I probably would have never come to this conclusion.

I now spend most of my time in the "off-topic" areas. I don't have much technical advice to give, and I find most other users provide better advice than I ever could have.

In your view, am I being rude?

J.

Justin. writes...

In your view, am I being rude?

No. If people are not that technically minded and want to spend most of their time in the off topic lounges, that's fine with me. Though I can see Mark^Bastard's point though.

I think moderation is at a perfectly fine rate at the moment. Not too harsh and not under moderated either. Keep up the good work mods!

Blu` writes...

Do they show bias?

This is almost impossible to rectify. Everyone is bias in a way.

I think if we had a 'general discussion' chatroom there would be less off topic discussions.

not_using_telstra writes...

I think if we had a 'general discussion' chatroom there would be less off topic discussions.

It's been done, and it went pear-shaped.

J.

not_using_telstra writes...

I think if we had a 'general discussion' chatroom there would be less off topic discussions.
Have a look at /forum-replies.cfm?t=963702

You are very limited in what you can discuss about in these forums. You thread will most likly get deleted just because you have a strong view on a particular matter.

For example I find just for providing a link on a particular matter even if it is a news article will get deleted. Just because it contains an illegal link. If you jump off a bridge should I do it to.

As you may know of reading what I discuss about. I have very strong views on matters. I feel that people should know about everything. So I will always start a thread. Even if it gets deleted.

malarkey101 writes...

I will always start a thread. Even if it gets deleted.

If you don't want to play by the rules you should find a forum that better suits your needs/agenda. A failure to do so will most likely end in tears.

I don't normally comment on these things and know for a fact that every single moderator is a normal person who is extremely easy to deal with and always pleasant but...

...I feel I have to say something about the removal of GTA4 threads. This is the only game besides TF2 that I have been looking forward to yet due to a few idiots, normal users such as myself and 99% of the contributers to those threads have to suffer.

What this actually means I guess is that moderation, while high (a good thing), should possibly be more severe on individuals rather than the group as a whole. It is disappointing to hear or see something about GTA and not be able to discuss it with like-minded fans here.

iOffline writes...

should possibly be more severe on individuals rather than the group as a whole

Although you talk about a specific incident which I am not going to comment about, I will make a general comment.

Threads that go through pages in quick succession that go off the rails can be difficult to mod - as if one or two mods have to 'babysit' the thread then that ties up a lot of resources.

So often, it is good to post a warning and close the thread for a period of time to enable heads to cool down, and be ready for when the thread is reopened not to go silly.

It is also something for the users to think about that if a thread starts to derail to herring the posts, rather than replying in a manner that breaks the rules.

Girlieone writes...

if a thread starts to derail to herring the posts

I think this would be the most effective way to keep threads alive! - imho

As a bonus, it should also somewhat lighten the load on the Mods

Cheers

iOffline writes...

...I feel I have to say something about the removal of GTA4 threads. This is the only game besides TF2 that I have been looking forward to yet due to a few idiots, normal users such as myself and 99% of the contributers to those threads have to suffer.

How do you feel you have to suffer? I ought not to address this here as you really should be whimming me about it, but just to clear the air...

Sometimes threads can get very intense. As you say, we're all real people and have things other than Whirlpool to deal with, so when it comes to our volunteer efforts getting abused beyond limits, we tend to get a little frustrated.

In the case of the GTAIV threads, there was about a 50% post deletion rate in the last few pages. As such, it seemed reasonable to give all users a cool off period. They seemed not to take heed of any warning (verbal or deletion based) and kept on breaking rules. The only way to get their attention (and everyone else's) is to simply remove the privilege to post in them altogether. It seems this has done the job. You'll note the thread's been restarted (as promised) and I hope that the cool-off period has given users time to think.

should possibly be more severe on individuals rather than the group as a whole.

That's a fair call. When you break it down, however, it's a lot easier to make sure everyone knows the deal than to find and inform various trouble users. We don't automatically know all the trouble-makers. As such, this system not only covers all our bases for the current trouble-makers, but it also makes sure we're covered for future occurences.

I apologise that some rule-abiding users have to be affected by this system, but it's really the only logical and simple way to make sure every angle is addressed sufficiently.

Since the two posts are similar I will respond in one go.

Loctorak writes...

How do you feel you have to suffer? I ought not to address this here as you really should be whimming me about it, but just to clear the air.

Sorry, I wasn't intending to target the one thread nor moderator(s) involved, it was more in relation to a specific example to backup what I was saying. The question is "is the moderation appropriate" and my short (blunt perhaps) answer was "yes..." with a but. That is that some of the users don't expect to have any consequences so although tough, the moderation sometimes has no control over the users.

You say that no matter the amount of warnings, people don't get the jist which I actually find sad. This forum asks nothing from the users except to act civil, something that it seems people cannot take a grasp of.

In the case of the GTAIV threads, there was about a 50% post deletion rate in the last few pages.

Again, sorry to sidetrack on a specific here but I do understand the issue. It would be difficult to separate a "troll" from someone falling for the bait and some people do over-react (I don't want to sound like one of those).

it's a lot easier to make sure everyone knows the deal than to find and inform various trouble users.

Similar to what I was saying before, it is a bad state when the number of (dare I say it) foolish posters outweighs those who are in it for the right reasons.

I apologise that some rule-abiding users have to be affected by this system

Again, this was more about the users than moderators. I would hate to have the responsibility of controlling people. I usually try to keep to myself and that seems to work well. Thankfully we (as a site) have good people keeping the others at bay.

Thanks again for all the hard, unpaid work you all do. All I can say about those who voted that this site is overmoderated is either accept it or leave. Why anyone would hang around a place they don't feel comfortable with is beyond me. Don't let the small numbers put you off the game as I am confident to say that the silent majority are extremely happy with how things are being run here.

malarkey101 writes...

I find just for providing a link on a particular matter even if it is a news article will get deleted. Just because it contains an illegal link.
I think that should be pretty self explanatory. If a post contains a link to illegal material then it's going to be removed. There are ways to discuss things which may be of a dubious nature without actually linking to them or even using site names. Difficult, yes - Impossible, no.

I personally think that the balance of moderation here on WP is just about right. It has a real community spirit, as people are always encouraged to get in contact with mods, and query them. This is way better than many other forums I have been a part of.

And you must remember that the system of 'open' moderation on WP may make it seem as if it is over moderated - while this is actually not the case, you can simply see what everyone actually does on here.

Bias is always to be expected in a moderation team, paid or unpaid. But I think that this is kept to a minimum, especially on the main forums.

For example, bias can be limited by putting someone who is impartial to an ISP's service as a mod in another ISP's forum - that way there is less bias.
b>E.G. if I was to become a mod (just hypothetically), I would prefer not to be a mod in the TPG forum, because I reckon their services are the best. By placing me as a mod in some other ISP's forum might be the best, because I couldn't care about the quality of that ISP either way - this is how bias can be minimised, and I believe this is already happening now on WP.

As far as rules go, I think it is good that we have them. Just remember that without them, this place would fall to pieces. All the mods would have a 'code of conduct' which they abide to, and this keeps the team on the same page. I have seen many forum sites fall to pieces simply because the rules weren't spelt out properly, and everyone went off and did their own thing.

All in all, I believe we couldn't ask for a better balance in the mod team, as they are dedicated and restrain their bias. Keep up the great job, guys!

malarkey101 writes...

For example I find just for providing a link on a particular matter even if it is a news article will get deleted. Just because it contains an illegal link. If you jump off a bridge should I do it to.

It's called protecting whirlpool, the site is hosted in Australia and bad things can happen.

malarkey101 writes...

I feel that people should know about everything. So I will always start a thread. Even if it gets deleted.

WarT writes...

It's called protecting whirlpool

malarkey101, I suppose you don't know what happened back on my birthday in 2007.

Wake up on your birthday and find your favorite website may be shut down and Simon sued. Not a great present.

When I first joined, I think moderation was fantastic. These days there are too many mods, and moderation lacks any form of consistancy. I think it the rules come down to what "the" mod thinks works. Not what a FAQ that has written to help users might suggest.

Tiger 1941 writes...

My personal experiences with the Moderation team have been very positive

Me too.

I have had lots of inappropriate posts deleted, but in each case I have been provided with an informative valid explanation.

I've had a few deleted, but even if I disagreed there was a good explanation given. And that's plenty enough.

Keep up the good work.

have fun()
mike

My biggest gripe has always been mods coming in and deleting a lot of posts for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

When a thread is flowing well, nobody is attacking each other and the comments are all in good jest some mods like to come in and spoil the party because they are 'inappropriate'.

Very frustrating.

Blu` writes...

My biggest gripe has always been mods coming in and deleting a lot of posts for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

Can you provide an example? I'm not automatically writing off what you've said, I'd just be interested to see what kind of thread you mean.

.Matt writes...

Can you provide an example? I'm not automatically writing off what you've said, I'd just be interested to see what kind of thread you mean.

/forum-replies.cfm?t=963421

First couple of pages of that thread is a good example. Everything was harmonious, everyone was contributing and having a good time until a mod came in swinging and chopped the thread up.

.Matt writes...

Wake up on your birthday and find your favorite website may be shut down and Simon sued.

Me too :) Sept 12 Great way to start your birthday.

As for the OP on an open forum moderation must occur.

The level of the moderation is determined by guidelines and humans...being human some people overreact and I have seen threads re enstated when a valid argument has been presented.

My personal experience with moderation has been fair and balanced.

Justin. writes...

In your view, am I being rude?

Not at all. You'd only be rude if you made in the news your 'home turf' and gave crap to people that only casually post there.

Mark^Bastard writes...

You'd only be rude if you made in the news your 'home turf' and gave crap to people that only casually post there.

Oh, now I see what you're getting at.

Yeah that's pretty ridiculous imho. I'd call myself a casual poster in ItN, although lately my participation has increased a lot. I'd attribute that to more relevant news stories in the headlines (to me).

J.

moderated often by fan boys who delete anything they dont agree with.

since when is calling a comment idiotic a personal attack, since when is telling someone that a router is junk inappropriate?

Ego out of control for some moderators.

This place gets called whingepool, probably because users whinge that the moderators are over doing it.

Coins writes...

since when is calling a comment idiotic a personal attack

You can respond to a comment without name calling.

since when is telling someone that a router is junk inappropriate?

It's not. Unless you insult the person in the process.

Ego out of control for some moderators.

Sorry, but what does deleting posts that break the rules have to do with ego?

C.

Moderation has gone down hill over the last month or two; Off topic posts approved, THREADS WRITTEN COMPLETELY IN CAPS APPROVED etc. Especially in the BigPond forum.

and then theres OK posts begin deleted as off topic or pointless when they are not. Its ok the other half of the time though.

Add: The only reason I found this thread was because I was just thinking about how it has gone down hill and to see if anyone was talking about it.

Gergless writes...

THREADS WRITTEN COMPLETELY IN CAPS APPROVED

We don't approve thread titles before they are posted. If I see them, I will always remove the shouting, because it looks terrible. If you have an issue, whim a moderator.

C.

Corey writes...

If you have an issue, whim a moderator

Yes, my thoughts exactly. We all have a role to play in moderating the forums. Whether by our own threads & posts or by simply using the herring button to alert a moderator.

It's unfair to blame mods for not seeing something if we sit back and ignore it ourselves.

have fun()
mike

Corey writes...

I will always remove the shouting, because it looks terrible. If you have an issue, whim a moderator.

That never works, even when you point out obvious problems. Moderators are too power happy to admit to being remotely wrong. They either reply with some excuse about "we'll see how it goes' or they dont reply because the argument is cut to slithers.

krazex writes...

Moderators are too power happy to admit to being remotely wrong.

Like everyone else, mods are human and we make mistakes. That's why all moderation actions are reversible, and why we have an escalation process.

Having said that, just because you disagree with a moderation action, doesn't automatically make the mod wrong.

That never works, even when you point out obvious problems.

Such as?

C.

Corey writes...

Like everyone else, mods are human and we make mistakes.

Of course and I agree 100% But why is it moderators seem to ignore what might be reflected in a FAQ. This is the problem I have.

That's why all moderation actions are reversible, and why we have an escalation process.

Having said that, just because you disagree with a moderation action, doesn't automatically make the mod wrong.

Of course not. I only use the herring options when I think something conflicts with a faq. A faq that is written to help users know whats right and wrong to post. Guidelines that dont get used all that often it seems. In some lounges.

Having said that, just because you disagree with a moderation action, doesn't automatically make the mod wrong.

Talk to the "senior" mod thor, and have a chat to craig.

I say we're overly moderated here.

I noted there is of some over zealous mods here as going over the top to the extreme.

I know of one have gone too far in my case.

Blu` writes...

Please note that this is not an opportunity to bash mods. Please refrain from singling out moderators by naming them.

I am not going to name the mod and that one got to behave. LOL.

krazex writes...

But why is it moderators seem to ignore what might be reflected in a FAQ.

FAQs are not rules - or do you mean rules?

I only use the herring options when I think something conflicts with a faq.

Conflicting with a FAQ is not grounds for post deletion...

A faq that is written to help users know whats right and wrong to post. Guidelines that dont get used all that often it seems. In some lounges.

Such as? As noted above, just because something is in a FAQ, doesn't make it a rule.

C.

mpp writes...

It's unfair to blame mods for not seeing something if we sit back and ignore it ourselves.

I agree! As I stated in an earlier post -

/forum-replies.cfm?t=963640&p=2#r23

I sometimes wonder why Mods even bother in the first place.

After already giving of their free time to Whirlpool, they then feel obliged to respond to every whinge in threads such as this one.

As some have indicated, a little appreciation would not go astray.

Cheers

Tiger 1941 writes...

I sometimes wonder why Mods even bother in the first place.

Me too. While i find mods do a great job majority of the time, sometimes i finding them deleting posts for the sake of deleting them. They may be borderline on the rules sometimes, but they certainly aren't hurting anybody.

Blu` writes...

They may be borderline on the rules sometimes, but they certainly aren't hurting anybody.

That is not necessarily true. If posts are personal attacks, inappropriate or illegal they may hurt someone.

Also, if an OP posts a thread wanting a question answered, dragging the thread off topic certainly may hurt the OP.

Mods don't delete posts just because they feel like it, there is a basis. And if you don't agree with a moderators decision, the escalation process ensures that there is a level of accountability.

Blu` writes...

i finding them deleting posts for the sake of deleting them.

I can assure you that all of us are busy enough not to be doing that.

If a post has been removed, it has a basis in WP rules or policies.

Thor writes...

I can assure you that all of us are busy enough not to be doing that.

I wouldn't think that any moderator could do it, as wouldn't a more senior moderator question the decision if they believed a post was deleted for no reason?

.Matt writes...

as wouldn't a more senior moderator question the decision if they believed a post was deleted for no reason?

If we saw it in the course of reading we would at least whim the actioning mod and ask what the story was. We may restore it or hide it then, or may wait if it isn't entirely clear or we aren't familiar with the situation.

Similiar happens with the escalation process.

Corey writes...

We don't approve thread titles before they are posted. If I see them, I will always remove the shouting, because it looks terrible. If you have an issue, whim a moderator.

I was actually referring to posts similar to this one. This is just an example, I do not have an issue with that particular thread because it was approved at the time.

Gergless writes...

I was actually referring to posts similar to this one. This is just an example, I do not have an issue with that particular thread because it was approved at the time.

The thing is though, is that moderators cannot edit posts. The most a mod can do in that situation is whim the OP and ask them to remove the caps. So you can't really pick a fault with that one.

.Matt writes...

moderators cannot edit posts

That's correct, but they can hide them. It would of taken a minute of a moderators time to hide the post, and if necessary send a WHIM to the OP telling them to remove the shouting.

WP_GeneralNetiquette
• Do not SHOUT. Excessive use of capitalisation and exclamation points (any more than one) is considered shouting and shows that you are unable to adequately express yourself through the use of normal language. Small amounts of capitalisation, when used to emphasise a particular point, is considered acceptable - although please note that Whirlpool offers other ways to add emphasis, such as through the use of bold and italics in your posts.

Standard Bathtub writes...

It would of taken a minute of a moderators time to hide the post, and if necessary send a WHIM to the OP telling them to remove the shouting.

Did you also consider that the OP posted again later in the thread and dropped the capitals, removing much of the need for the post to be edited?

Moderators have said time again that they are not going to be bogged down in becoming the grammar police. It can be annoying for some, but in the end it's to OP that's asking a question. They are the one that an inability, or unwillingness, of others to read the post will detrimentally affect.

Also, if there is nothing stopping any user from sending a polite WHIM to another user alerting them to the fact that ALL CAPS can make their post a little harder to read.

Thor writes...

dropped the capitals

I can see where your coming from although if the OP didn't return to that thread for a longer period and explained the reason for shouting every word then we wouldn't of known why they had a need for doing it. IMO it could have been removed like any other post until it was fixed.

Mick writes...

the grammar police

Again, I can see where your coming from and if it were a handful of grammar hiccups then it would of been fine but given that it was a whole message that was posted outside ones normal use of our online grammar it should have been removed.

Mick writes...

Also, if there is nothing stopping any user from sending a polite WHIM to another user alerting them to the fact that ALL CAPS can make their post a little harder to read.

Yeah but how good is that going to come off?

'Hey im just a regular user like you, but stop using caps, thanks'.

I know what my reaction would be...

Also on moderators 'hiding' posts, perhaps when mods 'hide' posts, the message we see when we are reading the forum should reflect that. I think it's a lot more passive than reading removed or deleted.

Blu` writes...

Also on moderators 'hiding' posts, perhaps when mods 'hide' posts, the message we see when we are reading the forum should reflect that. I think it's a lot more passive than reading removed or deleted.

Not sure what you're asking there, but here goes.

I'm sure you're aware that sometimes we also give a private reason why posts were removed (to the user only that it affects)? There is no reason why everyone else should see why a post was deemed "off topic", as an example, or the private reason to the user concerned.

The public reasons should be enough to give the hint to others, that the posts concerned didn't add anything to the topic. If they did, then that's between the user concerned, and the moderator that removed it for negotiation. No one else.

Blu` writes...

Also on moderators 'hiding' posts, perhaps when mods 'hide' posts, the message we see when we are reading the forum should reflect that. I think it's a lot more passive than reading removed or deleted.

But they already do this! e.g User xxxxxx This post was removed by a moderator (personal attack)

There is a private reason given, but why do the general population need to see this?

Way off :p

I just mean when you actually come across a post that has been removed or deleted, whether it be your own post or someone else, it comes across as a sharp word. Me personally reading that my post has been deleted or removed is annoying. I noticed mods like to say they have hidden your post. I think it's a softer, cleaner way of saying it. I like it.

I was just suggesting the wording be implemented forum wide :)

.Matt writes...

But they already do this! e.g

Yep, but instead of removed i think it's a better idea to use something like This post has been hidden by a moderator (reason).

Blu` writes...

Do you think we (the users) have enough input as to how things are run?

Here's my chance to make a suggestion!

It's easy for anybody to get bloody annoyed at some of the comments and personal attacks so aggression and abuse is always going to happen. I know Whirlpool understands that already.

So how about a place where you could go and get rid of that aggression?

We have the "Pool Room", how about we have "The Boxing Ring".

A single permanent thread would do with a title like "You're just a prick..." and you could wade in and have a go.

So, structurally, a single thread that worked like a FIFO buffer, keeping only the last 100 or so entries and auto-deleting the oldest. And of course, UNMODERATED.

People could choose to go there when they felt like a stoush, and hopefully an ethos might emerge where it became the thing to do to invite the other bloke to have a go and you could all go off to the Boxing Ring.

Other people already watching that thread could clap and cheer, egg them on or simply put the slipper in themselves.

There would always be someone already in Ring, especially if mods had the power to banish aggressors to the Ring in time units of say 30 minutes to provide instant relief when a thread was being flamed.

Any thoughts?

Edit: it would provide the opportunity for offenders to earn :Ds for really great flames that titillated the audience and they'd end up improving their auras.

Perite writes...

Any thoughts?

That would be the easy way out for Whirlpool losing it's reputation, could be a handy suggestion for other websites though.

Perite writes...

You would ensure it was always populated by mods

But wouldn't that go against the whole unmoderated thing?

Anyway, I think that would take a lot of moderation resources for something of very little value.

I quite like the fact that WP is friendly and that people don't get away with having a go at each other. Sure, everyone free is to disagree with an opinion, but there is no need to resort to name calling.

Blu` writes...

Yep, but instead of removed i think it's a better idea to use something like .This post has been hidden by a moderator (reason).

I see your point now :-)

The word removed simply means it's been removed from the public's view - of course the user concerned, as well as moderators (those that have moderation rights in those forums or course), can still see that post.

The word "hidden" sounds more realistic, and may be considered down the track. :-)

Girlieone writes...

But wouldn't that go against the whole unmoderated thing?

Anyway, I think that would take a lot of moderation resources for something of very little value.

I don't see it quite working that way; sending people there would require less worrying on your part than the current last resort banishment, wouldn't it?

You would not do any more work than you do now, it's just another 'management option'.

If the mods were a bit squeemish at a totally unmoderated thread with all it's garish language, then simply auto-parse the posts to replace the obvious nastly looking swear words with something that was cuter:

eg. when the parser hit 'f*ck' it might put that * there, or replace it with a fun word of some kind...

Perite writes...

replace the obvious nastly looking swear words with something that was cuter:

Already happens.

Perite writes...

sending people there would require less worrying on your part than the current last resort banishment, wouldn't it?

No I don't think it does. It would be another place to put moderation resources in, and detract from the friendliness of the site.

Perite writes...

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I think this post should be moved to 'Funniest Whilpool Threads' Forum.

It's a classic! LOL

Cheers

(I think talking about moving posts is on topic)

Girlieone writes...

No I don't think it does. It would be another place to put moderation resources in, and detract from the friendliness of the site

It's interesting that you have that take on it because my purpose in making the suggestion was that it would do exactly the opposite:

- people are going to keep flaming and fighting; if there was a way of moving some of that out of the context of normal thread discussion then it would save a lot of in-thread moderation.

- there is a chance that given time a strategy like The Boxing Room would have the effect of people moving themselves there which would keep the threads cleaner and make them easier to moderate.

- it would provide an easy means for mods to exact instant discipline

- offenders would soon get sick of being sent there, and knowing that it was going to happen to them, they would hopefully moderate their own behaviour a bit more.

- if it helped do any of those things then Whirlpool would be friendlier.

Just because there is one single place where there is an outlet, especially if it was made to be a bit humorous (like replacing swear words with something infantile instead), surely would not make the place less friendly?

Edit: I didn't really mean to prolong things by asking rhetorical questions, so having made the suggestion I'll bow out and stop defending it. : )

I think stopping Personal Attacks and infighting in the thread is easier than moving the fight somewhere else and moderating in there.

I don't think just because you 'move' a fight somewhere else means it won't stop in the thread. If users are going to fight, sending it somewhere else isn't going to stop it.

Moderators have the power to bin users if they fight incessently and is easy to use to 'exact instant discipline'. Users need to use a level of self control rather than us providing an outlet for their frustrations on other users.

Girlieone writes...

moderating in there

I think you missed the bit where I said it should be unmoderated - that is the whole point of it.

That thread would be structured in such a way that it offended nobody except those who wanted to offend each other - so there was no moderation required.

Edit: It wouldn't even have a Herring link!

I think some people need to learn to use the X top right of their favourite browser.

Some people probably think I should use it more often, but I guess my anger management skills are better perhaps.

Perite writes...

I think you missed the bit where I said it should be unmoderated - that is the whole point of it.
Sounds daft. Just open a IRC channel and go sick. That sort of foolishness doesn't belong here.

Perite writes...

I think you missed the bit where I said it should be unmoderated - that is the whole point of it.

You said it would be unmoderated, but you would put moderators in there to make sure it didn't get out of hand.

I just think thats what happens in threads already, and see no need for another place for moderators attention.

Girlieone writes...

but you would put moderators in there to make sure it didn't get out of hand.

No no no! How could it get out of hand? They're allowed to abuse the crap out of each other in there, it is there to provide that precise function!

Edit: and it could easily be arranged that nothing from that thread was written to disk as HTML, so it would never be crawled by Google and you'd not allow it to be searched by the Whirlpool engine either. So it would not be publicly exposed in a searching sense.

I must have misunderstood this comment:

You would ensure it was always populated by mods having the power to banish aggressors to just that thread in time units of say '30 minutes' to provide time-out when the temperature rose.

Isn't that what you were saying?

Ah I see! Sorry if my expression stuff that up!!

What I meant was that you mods would be sending people there pretty regularly (because a short term in the Ring is not the end of the world), so that there would always be plenty of people in there to fight each other!

That is, it would always be 'populated' by people you mods sent there. : )

Perite writes...

So how about a place where you could go and get rid of that aggression?

Isn't going to happen, period. Sorry, but we'd just open a new Coffee Lounge with your suggestion, which never really worked in the first place.

Craig writes...

Isn't going to happen, period.

Thank god. That would just reward the trollers, flamers, etc.

Perhaps there should be a nationwide meet so all these "aggressive" people could catch up and inflict senseless acts of violence against each other.

Alternatively, perhaps seeking the help of a trained specialist in mood disorders?

Perite writes...

you mods sent there

So in your line of thinking the penalty box should have a sister called "the penalty ring"? I can just see it here in the red announcement, "You cannot participate in threads until a moderator can see progression with your fighting".

I am opposed to this from even being considered, and I cannot see it even being considered. Perhaps what these people need are a nice relaxing bubble bath =]

Standard Bathtub writes...

So in your line of thinking the penalty box should have a sister called "the penalty ring"?

"Two go in, one comes out"

SikPuppy writes...

perhaps seeking the help of a trained specialist in mood disorders?

Some people are just angry at the world.

Of course, the moderators of Whirlpool are wholly, unequivocally and absolutely responsible for this. There's simply no other explanation.

J.

Craig writes...

Sorry, but we'd just open a new Coffee Lounge ... which never really worked in the first place.

Glad to see you added that bit by way of explanation because the Isn't going to happen, period without explanation sort of cut across the purpose of this thread

Do we have too many rules that restrict our ability to put forward our opinions? Do you think we (the users) have enough input as to how things are run?

Having got that off my chest, I'm too new here to have experienced the Coffee Lounge. Oh well, thanks for listening, anyway!

Perite writes...

'm too new here to have experienced the Coffee Lounge.

The vast majority of regular posters are :-)

The Coffee Lounge was a very long time ago. I suggest you continue to be constructive and helpful in the forums and, one day, perhaps the doors to The Pool Room will open for you ;-)

J.

Justin. writes...

Some people are just angry at the world.

I reckon that's half the problem, and they take it out in road rage and on Whirlpool.

But society has tried to provide less unjurious (?) outlets, like football and the Olympic Games instead of nations fighting each other all the time.

But maybe it's just increased the amount of fighting... :(

.Matt writes...

That would just reward the trollers, flamers, etc.

How? The'd not be allowed access to normal threads, just the Ring, until they'd done their time.

And if they offened again, back in the ring for longer.

If they kept it up they would end up being binned properly etc. etc

So it's just a stepping stone on the normal behavioural path, but a different sort of stone - one where they start out enjoying flaming each other - but hopefully realised in the end it was a waste of their time.

That is the conceptual difference between the Ring and normal banishment - they can get it off their chests; with normal banishment they just get angrier and dream about denial of service attacks.

The thing about anger - it's a bit like lust - if you get to do it, you quickly get over it. ;->

Craig writes...

The word "hidden" sounds more realistic, and may be considered down the track. :-)

Great :)

Not only realistic, it's just softer.

When i see Your post has been deleted by <mod> (reason) i read it as something like Stop being a tosser, dumbass - i own you but if i read Your post has been hidden by <mod> (reason) i think ok, where did i go wrong and what can i do to unhide it?.

But thats just me. It's only small, but it's something i think would make the place more pleasant.

How about "Rancor Ring Room" for a name?

I voted: Under-moderated

I mainly post in Broadband.

Threads often run off topic.

We see trolling all the time.

We see almost endless idiot posts because we're the top left most forum in the list.

We also get people starting new threads rather than joining a running one.

I often wish the mods were more awake (perhaps more of them on guard)

Cheers WTW

WTW writes...

perhaps more of them on guard

Would you suggest either;

a) giving more responsibilities to the current section moderators to spread the broadband forums out

b) adding more section moderators for the sole concentration of the broadband forums

WTW writes...

I often wish the mods were more awake (perhaps more of them on guard)

I used to think that too, especially when you see some sections being modded much faster than others. It can be annoying when an otherwise interesting thread gets hijacked and derailed by a few trolls before a mod can get to it.

However, most of the mods are only human and can't be everywhere at once (i'm sure nobody would want that). At the end of the day it really isn't that big a deal if an idiotic post remains viewable for a few hours instead of a few minutes. Just herring it, ignore it and move along.

Phil has changed the post "removed" to post "hidden".

Standard Bathtub writes...

Phil has changed the post "removed" to post "hidden".

It's more truthful than 'removed'.

Standard Bathtub writes...

Phil has changed the post "removed" to post "hidden".

Yeah, I noticed this earlier.

It seems somewhat inconsequential to the poster, or those reading it, although it is a nice touch and is more realistic. I guess it also gives credence to the transparency that Whirlpool promotes - A post is never really "removed." Not sure how many people will appre