So I finally got my 5 month line fault problem fixed (and I can honestly say that iiNet really are the best ISP in the world) but what happens now with action relating to compensation under the CSG.

It says on the website...

'Under the CSG Standard, customers are not required to complete a claim form in order to receive a CSG payment. If iiNet has identified a breach of the CSG Standard, a payment will be automatically credited to the customer's account.'

Well so far just the usual big fat bill and an eery silence.

So I should start chasing them up through the call centre again?

frodothedog writes...

Well so far just the usual big fat bill and an eery silence.

So I should start chasing them up through the call centre again?

Not sure how iinet do it, but generally I believe it's seperated from your normal bill.

Better to just call and ask, strike whilst the iron is hot and all that.

Bear in mind that the CSG is paid by Telstra, so delays are coming from them and not iiNet. iiNet won't try and block a CSG payment.

^{That's my understanding anyway. I have no doubt at all that I will be heartily and fulsomely corrected if wrong! :o)}

Stiiiiiilllllll Waaaiiiiiiittttiiinnnggggg!!!!!!!!­ !!!

frodothedog writes...

Stiiiiiilllllll Waaaiiiiiiittttiiinnnggggg!!!!!!!!­ !!!

This isn't support.

You actually need to ring them for them to action this.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

You actually need to ring them for them to action this.

Er no actually, I don't.

iiNet website, CSG...

'Under the CSG Standard, customers are not required to complete a claim form in order to receive a CSG payment. If iiNet has identified a breach of the CSG Standard, a payment will be automatically credited to the customer's account...'

frodothedog writes...

So I finally got my 5 month line fault problem fixed

You had a fault preventing you from using your PSTN phone for 5 months????? That is an unbelievable screw up by someone!!!!

By the way, that is the only part of the service covered by a CSG.... so if you phone worked but your ADSL didn't - you will get zero, zip, nada :(

Fast is good writes...

You had a fault preventing you from using your PSTN phone for 5 months????? That is an unbelievable screw up by someone!!!!

Intermittently, yes.

frodothedog writes...

Er no actually, I don't.

Er, if you want an Answer, yes you do need to call them... posting here saying yer still waiting isn't doing anything productive

frodothedog writes...

Intermittently, yes.

That could be the problem....

Every time it worked for a while - that probably reset the fault clock.... so it may not have been out for long enough at any one time to qualify.....

And noise on the line (preventing your ADSL from working) but still allowing you to have a PSTN voice call doesn't qualify either....

The only "clear cut" time the CSG cuts in is when the line is totally and utterly dead.... and only for the period it remains dead....

You really need to contact iiNet - if it was reported to them / by them as an ADSL fault.... the odds are you are out of luck!

The OP should realise that as it was an intermittent fault, it will be deemed that there is 48 working hours for Telstra to restore phone services from the time the fault is lodged with them. I presume you had to call multiple times to get this fixed? Each time you call a new fault would be lodged and Telstra have the 48 working hours to restore the service/s before CSG applies.

You haven't really given any information for us to go by.

Also -

frodothedog writes...

'Under the CSG Standard, customers are not required to complete a claim form in order to receive a CSG payment. If iiNet has identified a breach of the CSG Standard, a payment will be automatically credited to the customer's account.'

From my time working at iiNet I know that this is about 95% incorrect. Standard CSR's do not and will not go looking to see if the CSG applies unless it is requested by the customer. (There is the odd time when a Provisioning or faults team member will actually notice and apply the required credit)

I'd chase them up - my CSG claim was finally settled some 4 months after the service disruption.

And then it was, in my opinion, far less than it's worth.

They'll use lots of 'official' terms to try and squeeze out of it, and TELL you what their requirements are - but if you stay the course, you might get something worth it.

Note I said 'might'.

Good luck, and don't be surprised if you are referred to an iiStaffer with the initials of LP. (and it took over 2 months with HIS involvement too)

Cheers,
Rick

a) I posted that I am still waiting because the title of the post is 'How long to wait for a CSG ruling?' so by posting that I am still waiting people who are interested will know how long I have been waiting.

b) The line noise was intermittent. The fault was not. The fault was a damaged section of underground line. It took them over 4 months to set up a temporary line bypassing this (which fixed the fault, at least temporarily) and nearly 5 months to replace the damaged line.

c) iiNet are well aware that they have a case to answer under the CSG and have admitted it on a number of occasions to me verbally.

d) They were given until 13th April to come up with an answer by the TIO. Today is the 21st.

e) iiNet customer service is crap

frodothedog writes...

d) They were given until 13th April to come up with an answer by the TIO. Today is the 21st.

Today is the 22nd :)

If you have already gone to the TIO then chase them up and advise you have not received a response. this way the tio will chase this up for you

Just to clarify, if you had a functioning telephone service (regardless of noise on the line) then you are eligible for nothing at all. The CSG is legislation brought in to protect a minumum level of service and provide compensation when that minimum level is not adhered to. Sounds like, from your super-duper brief description, your fault isn't covered by the governing bodies definitions as listed here.

Methinks your rant may be in vain. . .

Wonder if he realises that whirlpool isn't a customer support hot line.

Frey writes...

The OP should realise that as it was an intermittent fault, it will be deemed that there is 48 working hours for Telstra to restore phone services from the time the fault is lodged with them.

Only if new faults were lodged. If it fell under a single fault... but i doubt telstra would allow that to happen being the buttholes they are. and isnt there some disruption thingy that can affect this too?

just call them and ask instead of complaining on here about it. If you deserve any cash, im sure they will give it to you.

I think it is totally unacceptable that Whirlpool is taking so long to resolve this issue.

LIFT YOUR GAME WHIRLPOOL

I'm interested in an answer to this as well as I am in a boat of similar shape.

I'd like to know how is the compensation calculated?
Our phone line was completely disconnected during multiple outage periods and was not repaired in the 2 day timeframes on all occasions. After complaining to them via email (the wait time on the support line is unbearable) I was offered a percentage of my monthly account payment back, which amounts to less than $30. I think that is ridiculous considering what we had to go through chasing this up and making alternative arrangements. The second time we had an outage of 14 days!

Am I entitled to what is stated here?
www.iinet.net.au/csg.html

Cheers guys.

V35 writes...

Am I entitled to what is stated here?

I'm no rocket scientist but you would have to think so.

V35 writes...

Am I entitled to what is stated here?
www.iinet.net.au/csg.html

Maybe. reading thru that shows this exemption:
Where non-compliance or delays are due to circumstances outside our control (please see mass disruptions ).

I believe this is a telstra thing and if one is active for your area, you are not entitled to csg. iinet may still give you cash, but i beleive csg as someone else pointed out comes from telstra to iinet to you.

Illuminous writes...

Wonder if he realises that whirlpool isn't a customer support hot line

I thought Whirlpool was forum for discussion of telecommunication and broadband services. Obviously not.

I thought that people who are trying to decide on an ISP to sign up to might come to Whirlpool to gain some background on service providers other than marketing hype/advertising. Obviously not.

frodothedog writes...

I thought that people who are trying to decide on an ISP to sign up to might come to Whirlpool to gain some background on service providers other than marketing hype/advertising. Obviously not.

You will find CSG-related threads on every ISP board, as it's something which affects all service providers who use Telstra's copper.

I wouldn't judge an ISP based on individual faults personally, but then again that's me.

Berkeley writes...

Just to clarify, if you had a functioning telephone service (regardless of noise on the line) then you are eligible for nothing at al

Well from the link you post...

'The Customer Service Guarantee (CSG) is a standard designed to encourage service improvement and guard against poor service...

The CSG defines a fault or service difficulty as one or more of the following:

the absence of a dial or ring tone;
absence of a dial or ring tone;
the inability to make or receive calls;
disruption to communications due to excessive interference...'

So, since I had noise on the line that caused 'disruption to communication' to the extent that I was unable to 'make or receive calls' I would have thought that would cover it...

Methinks your rant may be in vain. . .

I must have a different dictionary. So 'rant' means posting your own experience of poor ISp customer servie for the information of other consumers. OK.

Then apply for the CSG and be done with it.

All I am seeing is bumping in this thread.

The problem is your issue is between Yourself and Telstra.... Yeah I know you pay your money to iiNet.... but it's Telstra who provide the CSG and your retail provider just passes it on if it is forthcoming....

It is irrelevant in the iiNet forum as the same would apply to any reseller of Telstra services.....so

frodothedog writes...

I thought that people who are trying to decide on an ISP to sign up to might come to Whirlpool to gain some background on service providers other than marketing hype/advertising.

is largely irrelevant in this circumstance... Both you and any.... I say again... any reseller of Telstra Wholesale products (any ISP) is in the hands of Telstra.... If you don't like dealing with a powerless middle man - take your PSTN back to Telstra....

And by the way, all Telstra have to say is that there have been bulk disruptions (bit of that on the east coast recently).... and the CSG doesn't apply to their own retail customers - or their wholesale ones either - that is in the conditions of the CSG!!!

If you don't believe that have it sown up to protect Telstra - think again!!!

JoeyC writes...

I wouldn't judge an ISP based on individual faults personally, but then again that's me.

Nor would I, but if I came to a forum like this and there wasn't a single negative post about ISP A and there were 20 about ISP B with lots of supporting evidence it would make me think twice.

I can't see what objection so many people have to a bit of healthy discussion.

Methinks that more people than would admit to it might have conflicts of interest in these posts...

(Edit typo)

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Then apply for the CSG and be done with it.

Well I have. That's the point.

Before you flame me you should read the post. Or at least the title.

frodothedog writes...

Methinks that more people than would admit to it might have conflicts of interest in these posts...

One thing I've noticed about iiNet's forum is that there is a lot of people who stick up for the company. To me that is a good sign of a customer base (well, a small sub-set of it anyway) who believe they have signed up for an ISP that gives a damn about them.

While you may have a different opinion, judging an ISP based on when the service is bad rather than when the service is good is shooting yourself in the foot. On the other hand you could say that people who have good experiences with iiNet see everything through rose-coloured glasses and are just apologists. So yes. Everyone is wrong until they're proven right. :P

But anyways. CSG. Regardless of how many reps have told you that you can get CSG, if Telstra say no, you won't get it. They will say it Little Britain-style. If you have already gone to the TIO trying to find a final answer then you would be best to chase it up with them, seek an escalation that way, as those kinds of escalations aren't really capable of being ignored by the ISP.

JoeyC writes...

While you may have a different opinion, judging an ISP based on when the service is bad rather than when the service is good is shooting yourself in the foot

I've been a customer of Ozemail/iiNet since OneTel went belly-up. I'm judging them on experience over that time. I think customer service has gone down hill...I don't think I'm the only one either.

But anyways. CSG. Regardless of how many reps have told you that you can get CSG, if Telstra say no, you won't get it. They will say it Little Britain-style

What would be great would be if they would say anything. That's the point. I did actaully give some thought to the title of this thread...'How long to wait for a CSG... bonanza? party? massive unprecedented cash payout? Scandal? No no just a CSG ruling.

is shooting yourself in the foot

Well it would be if I'd shot myself anywhere but I'm still a customer. Actually I'm really only hoping they'd raise their game a bit because I'd still prefer to stay with them.

the penguin writes...

I think it is totally unacceptable that Whirlpool is taking so long to resolve this issue.

LIFT YOUR GAME WHIRLPOOL

Do you have anything constructive to say?

JoeyC writes...

One thing I've noticed about iiNet's forum is that there is a lot of people who stick up for the company.

There is also alot that just seem to appear to enjoy beating up on people with genuine problems or concerns(that's not referring to you or your reply). There seems a strong inverse correlation between some user's post count and the usefulness/relevance of what they post. That's a shame really, as alot of people come on here to read topics in the hope of learning something, but instead have to wade through all these herogram posts that usually have no bearing on addressing an issue/problem.

V35 writes...

Am I entitled to what is stated here?
www.iinet.net.au/csg.html

If you genuinely couldn't make or receive calls, as you say, then sure.

If you could but couldn't really hear properly and it was _virtually_ useless.. then you'll have an argument :)

versatile writes...

There is also alot that just seem to appear to enjoy beating up on people with genuine problems or concerns(that's not referring to you or your reply).

Extremes of anything are bad. :)

Except the funk.

Berkeley writes...

regardless of noise on the line) then you are eligible for nothing at all

I thought it included line noise if it was bad enough...

The CSG defines a fault or service difficulty as one or more of
...
disruption to communications due to excessive interference;
repetition of service cut offs

Busy Bee writes...

I thought it included line noise if it was bad enough...

I just mean to say - "bad ENOUGH" is more difficult to define than "no connection".

frodothedog writes...

Well I have. That's the point.

It appeared from your original posts that you had not contacted them via phone to ask about it. you were told by someone you needed to call them, and you said no, i dont.
So have you called them about CSG? If so, what did they say?

GregAlex writes...

I just mean to say - "bad ENOUGH" is more difficult to define than "no connection".

Yep, that would be very difficult to argue..... an older person with a hearing problem could be affected by very little noise.... a young person is better able to overcome the noise and still be able to use the phone....

If it was so bad that checking your call records showed all calls were only a few seconds duration - and then you or the caller gave up / hung up.... that would be a good argument....

But if they examined your call logs for that period - and discovered normal length and long calls..... I think you would have a real hard job convincing anyone (me included) that the noise was so bad you couldn't use the phone...

And really that's what you would need to be able to prove for a breach of the CSG - dial tone and ring tone were fine.... but we couldn't carry out a conversation....

Slick007 writes...

So have you called them about CSG? If so, what did they say?

Sure I called them. I meant I shouldn't have to keep calling them.

Someone did call me and said they'd call me back tomorrow with a decision. That was a week ago.

The TIO gave them a deadline of 13th April for a decision. Today is the 23rd.

As far as I can see this is pretty standard service from iiNet at the moment.

Anyway I'll call them...

OK so I called.

CSG decision...not a penny.

So upwards of 40 calls to support, many of them on mobile due to lack of functioning land line, hours and hours spent on hold, big hole dug in front yard for two weeks, damage to home mains power supply, driving around to find a mobile signal in the middle of the night to make work calls etc etc etc

Compensation = Nil

Thanks iiNet. Great work.

Oh and the really hilarious thing about this is that the CSR guaranteed...yes guaranteed me... that their manager would call me back within two hours to explain. Yeah right!!!

frodothedog writes...

CSG decision...not a penny.

And in terms of our answers about whether you should see a penny...
does their answer fit?

ie: Was your phone down for 3 or more days?
Are they acknowledging that, and if so why are they saying it doesn't fit the CSG?

Anyway, you.ve got the TIO.

frodothedog writes...

Thanks iiNet. Great work

I'm not so sure about this. If the TIO is involved and the agree that there is no case for a compensation under the CSG, it sounds like you're out of luck.

Anyhow, I still believe that iiNet provide a resold Telstra line and therefore Telstra judge and decide to pay or not pay the CSG compensation.

frodothedog writes...

I must have a different dictionary. So 'rant' means posting your own experience of poor ISp customer servie for the information of other consumers. OK.

Ha! I wa being anti-retroactive and anticipating the subsequent 15 posts you were going to make. Turns out I was right too! :o)

frodothedog writes...

Thanks iiNet. Great work.

iinet dont decide CSG. Telstra do. start blaming the right people.

<edited comment about you not answering questions - thanks for some answers below, will ask some more>

yes, iiNet gives you the CSG - you claim it through them.
Telstra then gives iiNet the CSG - you shouldn't be involved.

Whatever logic mandates Telstra's payment should be the same that mandates yours. And though I would have recommended asking iiNet for the CSG (assuming your phone didn't work etc etc), -technically- you don't ask for a CSG payment it is given to you 60 days after the problem.

So asking customer service for the refund is the wrong channel entirely.
(edit: meaning the general people on that number aren't the ones that decide about those refunds, I believe)

<edited comment about you not answering questions - thanks for some answers below, will ask some more>

edited to remove above comments.

If you are genuine, my apologies for not picking it. How about answering some questions which were genuinely intended to help?

Well I've tried. I'll have another go.

Yes. We had phone line noise that made the phone unusable for large parts of five months.

Yes. The TIO has intimated to me that there is a case under the CSG

Yes. The TIO informed me that a decision should be due on 14t April.

Yes. Some guy called form iiNet to tell me that he would ring me back with a decision tomorrow.

Yes. I called them back because that was over a week ago

No. I didn't know that you just waited 60 days (it doesn't say that on the website) but anyway they've already told me I'm getting nothing. Reason because they say the line fault wasn't present continuously for long enough.

No. The answer to the question 'Is this true?'

Yes. The answer to the question 'Do they know this?'...Because I called them over 40 times over the 5 months to tell them the problem had not resolved (largely on my mobile, which is one of the main reasons a bit of compensation wouldn't go amiss)

I'd like to be clear that in your situation it sounds (from your description) as though the CSG was made specifically for people in your position.

frodothedog writes...

We had phone line noise that made the phone unusable for large parts of five months.

As another poster asked - will you be able to show that you had no phone at all, or that you had no calls that lasted more than 30 seconds, or something similar?

Or will they claim that you had 5 minute calls on the "unusable" line? (which I could understand if you were attempting to call iiNet and show them how hard it was to hear yourself.). I'm not saying it's not a problem - just wondering what they might say.

The TIO informed me that a decision should be due on 14t April.

That's excellent. The good thing about this process is that it's not about iiNet, Internode, or Telstra deciding whether it was a CSG matter - it's an independent body. If iiNet has said it's not CSG-worthy I would simply work with the TIO and follow their directions from now.

That's actually good for iiNet too - since if the TIO says it's a CSG issue then Telstra will pay iiNet. ie: The company responsible for giving you a crap connection has to ultimately pay (though you still claim through iiNet since you don't buy from Telstra!)

No. I didn't know that you just waited 60 days

It used to say that on the TIO website (2 years ago), not sure if it still does. You only call if the penalty fee doesn't get sent to you. I decided it sounded stupid and rang iiNet directly and got back $30 for having no phone for 4 or 5 days (can't remember exact timing).

Remember it's not a refund, it's a penalty payment to a provider for not providing the service, and is intended to motivate telcos to meet a minimum standard.

I called them over 40 times over the 5 months to tell them the problem had not resolved

Sounds like you have a case, based on what you've said. Of course I don't know the full story, especially actual durations where the phone was unusable and evidence of that. Some things are hard to show

On a similar note:
* I had Telstra repair an intermittently fuzzy phone about 10 years ago. The technician couldn't hear the fuzz when he came, but cleaned all the connections (saying they were corroded). He then said that I should really pay for his visit since it wasn't Telstra's problem, but that he'd sign that he found a wiring issue (nudge nudge wink wink Telstra is your best friend). That was nice of him... and the intermittent problem NEVER came back.

* Telstra used to repair our Argent+ISDN connections in the retail shops I supported. They would work for 4 hours, say there was nothing wrong at all (thus we paid), but suddenly everything would be working after their visit. It happened so often I said to a technician
"I know it's not Telstra's fault, and that you didn't find anything important in the last 4 hours, but do you think you could tell me if this kind of thing happens again what a technician could look for FIRST, just to help them make sure it's not Telstra's fault more quickly?"
It was very useful :)

frodothedog writes...

Yes. We had phone line noise that made the phone unusable for large parts of five months.

and here probably lies the issue...its not a black and white, cut and dried fault

a no dialtone fault caused by your line being cut by someone trying to drill for oil in suburbia, or a tech swapping your cabling at the exchange with steve's from accounting - that is a CSG fault...

but something like 'it sorta worked' or 'theres a bit of noise' etc, well thats not so cut and dried...

and a hell of a lot harder to claim for loss of service.

your best effort might be to see if you can meet iinet halfway and simply ask if they can credit your account for a couple of weeks for the trouble you've been through (rather than fight for CSG by itself)

point88 writes...

a no dialtone fault caused by your line being cut by someone trying to drill for oil in suburbia,

that is a CSG fault...

No it is not. This is caused by an outside source. Out of Telstra's control. They will not cover you for this.

To the OP - Also Telstra will not cover under the CSG the time that they are waiting for an outside company to do work.

If they thought this was even remotely covered by the CSG then you would have had the work done many months before the actual completion date. I really don't think you will have a leg to stand on. It comes under this "Where non-compliance or delays are due to circumstances outside our control"

Frey writes...

If they thought this was even remotely covered by the CSG then you would have had the work done many months before the actual completion date. I really don't think you will have a leg to stand on.

To be quite honest this isn't really about the money. I'd be happy to give anything I do get to charity if necessary. What really pisses me off is the couldn't give a toss attitude that seems to be endemic in the telco industry as a whole.

I defy anyone to give me an example of any other goods or services that they pay money for that offers customer service as awful as the telcos/ISPs do at the moment. What's really alarming is how many people just seem happy to roll over and just take it. I just cannot see how we can expect telco services to improve if as a whole people don't demand better service.

I've been caned by a lot of people on this forum (you know who you are). Well I look forward to them losing anything resembling a useable service for 5 months and see how warm and fuzzy they feel towards their providers then.

frodothedog writes...

What's really alarming is how many people just seem happy to roll over and just take it. I just cannot see how we can expect telco services to improve if as a whole people don't demand better service.

I've been caned by a lot of people on this forum (you know who you are).

I assume I'm one person you think canned you.

Perhaps we have misread you. I was answering about the CSG, what counted as CSG etc. Were you being more philosophical and asking about what's right and wrong in the telco industry?

If so it seems a different post and far different question, and I'd be happy to say I'd like to see better customer service all round. I'd also say you should check the reviews of ISPs and use the ones that at least score higher in customer service when you next choose between service providers.

My belief that you were asking about CSG is why I asked the following again:

GregAlex writes...

As another poster asked - will you be able to show that you had no phone at all, or that you had no calls that lasted more than 30 seconds, or something similar?

Or will they claim that you had 5 minute calls on the "unusable" line? (which I could understand if you were attempting to call iiNet and show them how hard it was to hear yourself.). I'm not saying it's not a problem - just wondering what they might say.

That question directly relates to "will you get a CSG payment". I wasn't trying to be philosophical, just try to help answer in context of your question.

Of course it's fine for you to talk about fairness and how we'd like to be treated, rather than a question about applicability of the CSG to your circumstance - just wasn't clear from your title or what you've said.

I got a quick question in a roundabout Fashion...

Were you offered an Interim Phone Service at all? IIRC (and someone will correct me if Im wrong) but if you are offered an Interim, and you refuse, you waive your CSG rights

Well that's the crazy thing about this. We had, I think, 5 seperate visits from engineers. On the first visit the guy established that the break in the line was 8 metres from the house but it wasn't until about the 4th of 5th visit that the engineer went to the next pit down (about 30 meters from the house but still on our property) and rigged up a temporary line through the trees from that pit to the house. From that point on the service was fine.

The problem is that the time between those two visits was more than 3 months...THREE MONTHS (and about three more visits to the problem).

That in itself would I think constitute a pretty good case for the CSG. In fact, why take the time to cut the old line and rig up a temp line if they're now telling me there was never a real problem. If that's not an admission of guilt I don't know what is.

frodothedog writes...

The problem is that the time between those two visits was more than 3 months...THREE MONTHS (and about three more visits to the problem).

If billing records show that billable calls were originated on the line during the 3 months you unlikely to able claim it wasn't working.

canon1d writes...

If billing records show that billable calls were originated on the line during the 3 months you unlikely to able claim it wasn't working

I'm sure you're probably right but it makes a mockery of the CSG which says...

'disruption to communications due to excessive interference...'

You pick up the phone, hear the crackling, give it a go, pay the flagfall, hang up after 30 seconds because you can't hear what the personon the other end is saying and hey presto that's your CSG down the Swannie. Like I say it's ajoke and a ripoff.

frodothedog writes...

On the first visit the guy established that the break in the line was 8 metres from the house but it wasn't until about the 4th of 5th visit that the engineer went to the next pit down (about 30 meters from the house but still on our property)

The fact that the break was on your property further adds to your problem....

If the break was caused by someone driving in a star picket, digging a hole or whatever...... not only are you not covered by the CSG - but you can be sent a bill for repairs to the line..... (and that isn't cheap!!!)

For this reason when we had the sewage piping replaced not long ago - I watched the contractors like a hawk to make sure they didn't hit the phone cable with the backhoe.....

Faults on your property (other than corrosion of joints) adds a whole new level of complexity - and yet another reason to avoid payment.

canon1d writes...

If billing records show that billable calls were originated on the line during the 3 months you unlikely to able claim it wasn't working

I asked a friend who would know about this and she said the TIO would look at the billing records in a bit more detail than that - for things like short calls, repeated calls (ie. you've hung up and dialled again or the call has dropped out), using your mobile more, using your landline less, stuff like that.

If the break was caused by someone driving in a star picket, digging a hole or whatever...... not only are you not covered by the CSG

Why does that take it outside CSG? Don't Telstra still have an obligation to fix it promptly if it's on their side of the first socket?

Busy Bee writes...

Why does that take it outside CSG? Don't Telstra still have an obligation to fix it promptly if it's on their side of the first socket?

Yes they do. Even though in this case it's the lead-in that's faulty it's still up to Telstra to fix a faulty lead-in even though they don't have to install it the first time round.

canon1d writes...

it's still up to Telstra to fix a faulty lead-in

If it was damaged by somebody though, they bill the person who damaged the line don't they?

Fast is good writes...

The fact that the break was on your property further adds to your problem....

Not really. It was just fair wear and tear. Anyway there's never been any suggestion that it should be repaired at our cost. We're getting off the point here...

GregAlex writes...

If it was damaged by somebody though ...

But it wasn't. As above.

frodothedog writes...

But it wasn't. As above

Sorry, wasn't implying it was.
Just getting a bit off topic of your issue specifically - but sticking with what is whose responsibility CSG wise.

Anyway, it sounds like you have your answer largely which is great.

You know the CSG is paid by telstra. If the answer is no from telstra there is no way iiNet are paying it out of pocket.

Not since your frivolous TIO complaint will cost them anyway.

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

Not since your frivolous TIO complaint will cost them anyway

Now why aren't I surprised by that reply?

Sagos Krauts Duh writes...

You know the CSG is paid by telstra. If the answer is no from telstra there is no way iiNet are paying it out of pocket.

Er why not exactly. iiNet get compensated by Telstra..or not. There's nothing in there, that means that iiNet can't compensate their customers for poor service.

Anyway, iiNet aren't out of pocket. They charged me top dollar for five months of a seriously non-functioning service. They're not out of pocket one cent even if they do pay some of that back. The only person out of pocket here is the end user. Which bit of that is hard to understand?

frodothedog writes...

They charged me top dollar for five months of a seriously non-functioning service.

Yep.... and virtually all of that was paid to Telstra!!!

They're not out of pocket one cent even if they do pay some of that back.

Well seeing that they made very little during those five months.... it will cost them..... and those costs get borne by the rest of us!

Did you get a raw deal..... Yes
Have you the right to be angry..... certainly
Do I personally think you are entitled to compensation..... maybe

But it isn't iiNet's fault.... it's Telstra's.... and it is Telstra who make the ruling re CSG payments....

iiNet are the postoffice..... collecting line rental and passing most on to Telstra and collecting CSG payments (if made!) and passing them on to you....

In your case Telstra said NO!!! to the CSG claim

Fast is good writes...

Yep.... and virtually all of that was paid to Telstra!!!

Of course, what was I thinking of?

So the $9.5M first half profit was made doing what? Now let me see???

Fast is good writes...

In your case Telstra said NO!!! to the CSG claim

Which has answered the question raised by this thread. Closed.

Thread has been reopened to allow the OP to post an update on the situation and allow discussion flowing from that update

Please refrain from the temptation to engage in flaming and trolling/baiting, rather debate the topic at hand please.

Thankyou

Thor writes...

Thread has been reopened to allow the OP to post an update on the situation and allow discussion flowing from that update

Please refrain from the temptation to engage in flaming and trolling/baiting, rather debate the topic at hand please.

Thankyou

Thanks Thor...

On 5th May I received information from the TIO that

1. iiNet had offered 3 months service charge credit as compensation
2. This was not under the CSG as there had been no appointments missed and that (in their opinion) there were no times the service was unusable based upon the call records. I'd beg to differ on this given the number of calls that were flagfall only over the 5 month period, but I'm out of energy.

A couple of things worth noting

a) Compensation and/or a written apology were suggested by the TIO. iiNet clearly don't feel apologies are necessary which is a bit surprising since they are free and would have seemingly satisfied the TIO.
b) Clearly iiNet do have the capacity to compensate clients outside the CSG (but then why anyone thought they couldn't is beyond me)
c) Future complainants should be aware that the default attitude is that there is 'no problem' and it is the onus of the complainant to prove there is one.
d) I didn't keep enough records of how dysfunctional the line was and therefore have little evidence to argue that the line was unusable eg I can't prove how many times I picked up the phone and didn't use it because I could barely hear the dial tone
e) If you can shout your way through a 10 minute phone call without getting so frustrated you have to hang up after you've been struggling with the same problem 3 months that isn't going to qualify for jack under the CSG if you are relying on the company's call records as evidence. I would hesitate to suggest that it might be just better not to use the phone and tell them it doesn't work
f) It took 4 visits from Telstra and 4 months before the tech installed a temp line that worked perfectly until a permanent fix. If it happens again I'd demand they do that on the first visit.

Anyway, fairplay to iiNet for the compensation but I still think they've a long way to go on the customer service front. They really have some excellent strategies for upsetting customers. If I was a shareholder I'd be worried. I don't really give a rat's arse about the money. I'd really rather have a provider who treats me like a customer instead of an enemy as soon as the going gets tough.

Finally, I had to negotiate considerably to have this thread reopened and thanks to other members for supporting me on that.

Thanks for the follow up.
It's a real pity the TIO didn't consider it a CSG violation. I am, however, glad that it wasn't up to iiNet or Telstra to decide that.

It's also a pity that iiNet weren't able to be more proactive with your fault and in staying on Telstra's back to fix it. I hope whatever provider you use in the future is better able to satisfy your needs.