Whirlpool

Refer to the thread by E2ek on Exetel termination of ADSL2 service. I'd be interested in hearing from other users who have had their service cut off by Exetel. Do they terminate customers who HAVEN"T lodge a TIO complaint, with no explanation? If ADSL2 plans are unprofitable are they terminating all the customers?

If Exetel has terminated your service:
Were you given an explanation?

Had you had warnings for breach of contract conditions re copyright, excess download etc, or other reason why termination would be explainable?

Have you previously lodged a Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman complaint?

If you have had your service terminated by Exetel, please provide feedback below:

I haven't had my services terminated but I would like to say that customers who do get terminated and strongly suspect that the reason is Have you previously lodged a Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman complaint? that they once again contact the TIO lodging another complaint about the ISP using bullying, intimidation and latent threats against those lodging complains to the TIO.

Once the TIO get a few hits recorded they might act to stop such abuse of customers.

There are 6 or 7 now that I know of in the last 2 months alone.

1) Amount of support hours provided
2) Amount of ‘sales’ time provided
3) Amount of problem resolution time provided
4) Payment regularity and default history
5) Amount of free downloads used (when that was a no charge option)

As well as other factors.
forum.exetel.com.au/view...ighlight=#204142

Wow, very interesting.

I think there could be grounds to challenge excetel's methodology for descriminating against individual customers.
It might be worth investigating excetel's calculations for deriving the true cost to provide your individual service.

Having worked in an industry with not too disimilar wholesale cost structures to ISPs, the wholesale cost for an individual customer would be something very difficult to quantify exactly, and very much open to interpretation.

It is very different supplying one single customer than a portfolio of customers all with varying characteristics and differING portfolio synergies.

On the one hand, it is fair enough to release a user if they have become economically unviable.

On the other hand, how much "sales and service time" is needed to make a customer unviable, especially considering Exetel's "wafer thin" profit margins? Not much I would imagine.

Once the TIO get a few hits recorded they might act to stop such abuse of customers
Then again they might not.

I would like to say that customers who do get terminated and strongly suspect that the reason is that they once again contact the TIO lodging another complaint about the ISP using bullying, intimidation and latent threats against those lodging complains to the TIO.

Suspecting something and making accusations about it happening are very different ... One is not knowing,or being sure and the other you would only do if you could prove it..

Bad advice for someone who is not sure about or cant prove their case.. Actually a waste of time for both the TIO and the customer.

hmm i think that exetel need to make it clearer that if you sign up - and you do anything that costs them money, they will get rid of you (and quite rudely at that)

I thought a good business set their prices and services so that they could provide a service without loosing money - but it seems exetel provides a service it can barely afford to offer and then kicks the customer out when their wonderful software says they have cost them too much - dont you set your prices so that you will make a profit and at least cover your costs?

according to them they assess it individually how much a person costs them with different methods and how much they have made from you....what i would like to know is how exactly do you measure that?

is it logged on some computer somewhere each time you have phoned, each time you have emailed, and the seconds you used of their time, the downloads you used each month, and attribute a $ figure to it? ---- how much does a system like this cost to run and make sure its accurate?

OK, so if you dont want your contract terminated, what do you have to do ? not ever email them, phone them or download more than 1gb? so your not costing exetel anything?

orrie writes...

according to them they assess it individually how much a person costs them with different methods and how much they have made from you...

what i would like to know is how exactly do you come to that conclusion and where did they ever say that?

exetel forum

------quoted message from exetel forum-------

in that an automated system accumulated the costs incurred in providing the service to each individual user.

The costs of providing the same plan to you will be different to the costs of providing the same plan provided to someone else using the criteria I listed plus other criteria.

The cost of providing a service to you far exceded the cost of providing the same service to other users of that plan.

Therefore, as the contract clearly and specifically, allows us to do we no longer wish to lose money providing you an ADSL service

A link to that?

forum.exetel.com.au/view...ighlight=#204142

it was posted earlier in this thread!

orrie writes...

we no longer wish to lose money providing you an ADSL service

Or they could be a proper business and not allow minor incidents to become big enough that unhappy customers go to the TIO.

Is it too much to ask that they stop the escalation at an early stage? With thier reduced staff/costs model, I don't think they can and it becomes a perpetual motion machine of slim margins / inability to fix problems / TIO involvement / forced disconnects.

forum.exetel.com.au/view...ighlight=#204142
it was posted earlier in this thread!

Yes sry, so it was ...hidden away :)

It must be a trying job explaining to people you have a business to run and cant operate it with customers who are causing it a loss. I applaud ForumAdmin for the most civil way he explained this business decision.
Im happy my internet will remain great value because of these wise business decisions that have been serving Exetel well, regardless of what the knockers say for over 4 years with a ever growing customer base.

so what do you do to ensure your not terminated?

do you have to sign up a lot of people?

praise exetel lots on forums like whirlpool?

suck up to them generally?

no - seriously i want to know exactly what guidelines one has to meet so they to remain a viable customer? - and how exactly this magical software works that determines it for each customer?

(was it april fools days today?...yes it was actually!) but somehow i think exetel is serious

You don't have to do anything... Except accept Exetel acted within their T & Cs.

orrie writes...

(was it april fools days today?...yes it was actually!) but somehow i think exetel is serious

Making business decisions is no April fools joke.. At least the shareholders/owners wouldn't think so..

i had a little hobby/business in my declining years.
some people were easy to get along with and supply with product.
some were very demanding and time wasting and wanted to vaccum my brain rather than do their own research

at some point some people simply are not worth the hassle of keeping on when margins are slim.
nothing personal usually...just a matter of economic reality.
simply the persons need for attention was more than i could financially bear .......that i had not costed into my dealings.....and didnt wish to.
by choice as i just didnt wish to mess with this sort of person.
been there and done that

i simply stated that i was not able to supply anymore and that was that.
i would recommend an alternate supplier to soften the decision, help them along

it is better to be that way and be able to be that way and to hold the line then to deal with people who are just time wasters.
all of us know that we are not going to get the hand holding of say Internode.
but we dont pay their prices either

but none of us is essential
there are always alternatives

i better be careful cause i have taken up a bit of exetel time and i am probably not actually profitable either :-)

orrie writes...

seriously i want to know exactly what guidelines one has to meet so they to remain a viable customer?

hmmm - looks like you're on the slippery slope - apparently having made a TIO complaint against Exetel - forum-replies.cfm?t=947007&p=2&u=25139#r29

Just keep doing what you are doing and I suspect you will find out

and if in doubt use a different username on forums you want to remain anonymous on - but a TIO complaint does tend to be hard to do anonymously

Seriously - read the Exetel's terms and conditions - www.exetel.com.au/adsl2_terms.php - and comply would be a good start

orrie writes...

so what do you do to ensure your not terminated?

Not complain to the TIO.

wow... that thread is an interesting read.

Basically, Exetel are saying:
"We offer fantastic plans.. but if you intend on using them to their fullest extent, expect to get booted"

xnor writes...

Not complain to the TIO.

So looks like it's official then, Exetel will terminate your account if you make a complaint to the TIO.

duncan writes...

Basically, Exetel are saying:
"We offer fantastic plans.. but if you intend on using them to their fullest extent, expect to get booted"

Not at all. What Exetel are saying is patently obvious: If you cost them more than you pay them, then when your contract expires, they will give you notice that they intend to stop supplying you with the service in accordance with their terms and conditions.

If they didn't do that, then ultimately they would go out of business and the rest of us would be looking for a new ISP too. For myself, I prefer they stay in business.

How anyone can claim this is "abuse of customers" is beyond me. It's no different to saying that anyone who decides to leave Exetel after their contract expires -- as permitted by the terms and conditions for any reason whatsoever -- is abusing their ISP!

a.c.d writes...

How anyone can claim this is "abuse of customers" is beyond me.

That may be so but it's like this.

The complaints resolution procedure is in Exetels hands, not the customer.

In fact the customer is quite removed (deliberately so by Exetel) and is therefore at the mercy of Exetels systems. If those systems fail and the customer doesn't know what's going on, after a period of time they are going to get frustrated and contact the TIO.

So this all comes down to Exetel not having proper and competent processes in place to not let the complains escalate to the TIO stage and the customer become vulnerable, due to some other in house targeting software they use.

This is the "Abuse of customers" one can claim.

Also it is a latent threat that if one does go to the TIO they will probably be disconnected.

duncan writes...

Basically, Exetel are saying:
"We offer fantastic plans.. but if you intend on using them to their fullest extent, expect to get booted"

I read and understand it the same as im sure the majority do... That if it costs Exetel more to provision your account than others on the same plan and Exetel cant see any future profit from your account,then yes they will terminate it in accordance with the T & Cs both parties agreed to.
This is how i understand it, without making assumptions as others have in this thread..

mce writes...

So looks like it's official then, Exetel will terminate your account if you make a complaint to the TIO.

And what makes that 'Official'? Are you suggesting Exetel have said that themselves?

a.c.d writes...

Not at all. What Exetel are saying is patently obvious: If you cost them more than you pay them, then when your contract expires, they will give you notice that they intend to stop supplying you with the service in accordance with their terms and conditions.

Then they're clearly trolling for customers with unprofitable plans.

Its called bait and switch by most ethical-minded people.

Their business model seems to rely on the customer _not_ using the plan they're on.

I wonder how many customers have been terminated while still on contract (after TIO complaint); I suspect not too many.

The ones who were terminated after their contract is finished I have little sympathy.

We should all realise that the expenses (to change providers, for example) at the end of our contracts are our own to bare.

This realisation makes it easy for some to apprecitate the benefits of longer contracts (such as 2 years). I would love to be able to renew 6-month Exetel contracts.

duncan writes...

Then they're clearly trolling for customers with unprofitable plans.

Its called bait and switch by most ethical-minded people.

Their business model seems to rely on the customer _not_ using the plan they're on.

dunno
i call it simply choosing to not do business with some people.

we all have that choice still in this country for most, but not all, of our services.
we exercise that choice every time we select one shop or restraunt over another .

i have no doubt that Exetel have carefully calculated the effects....both sort and long term ....of this policy.
and are prepared to go with the results.

otherwise they wouldnt do it i suppose .

if they tell me to nick off then i would accept it, knowing that they choose to do this for their own reasons.
same as i can up tomorrow and go to another provider..........for my own reasons.

so long as reasonable notice is given i dont see a problem.
and reaonable notice to me means that one has sufficient time to get off an Optus line (if that is what the service involves) and back to a Telstra one if that is required within the change.
that change of lines dosnt happen quickly i gather....up to a month i have been told.

mce writes...

Exetel will terminate your account if you make a complaint to the TIO.

At first glance it may seem that way. However, according to TIO statistics Exetel had 377 complaints lodged against them in relation to Internet services between 1 July 2006 and 30 June 2007. www.tio.com.au/publicati.../PDF/PartSix.pdf

We know that 5 or 6 of those customers have been told to find another ISP by Exetel. This doesn't necessarily mean that all 377 have suffered the same fate. In fact, I find it highly unlikely.

Perhaps the commonality amongst those asked to leave is that they are all Optus ADSL2+ customers, which are non-profitable for Exetel:

If we listened to our provisioning and support people we would not continue to offer ADSL2 services as their cost of support is far too high and as Exetel bases its broadband oferings on a margin of between $1.50 and $2.00 a month the Optus ADSL2 services have lost us money ever since we put the service up on our web site in May 2006. To date I think our losses on offering that service are approaching $A1 million with no real sign of reaching a break even let alone making a profit.

johnl.blogs.exetel.com.a...jor-Problem.html

And also that they are no longer under contract.

Can you really blame any company for wanting to be rid of customers that, despite over 12 months of providing a service, have cost them money?

xnor writes...

Can you really blame any company for wanting to be rid of customers that, despite over 12 months of providing a service, have cost them money?

Once again, I say that if Exetel got problems fixed before they got to the TIO stage then none of this would be happening.

mce writes...

I say that if Exetel got problems fixed before they got to the TIO stage then none of this would be happening.

That might happen more often if users followed the documented escalation procedure that Exetel has in place.

In regards to this thread it seems that most of the complaints to the TIO were for long periods of slow speed. I'm not sure what Exetel's official response to those complaints was however I do think that Exetel would be rather reluctant to offer compensation to a customer that has already cost them hundreds of dollars.

In regards to the recent disconnection notices I would assume that those given the notice would be happy to go elsewhere anyway.

duncan writes...

Basically, Exetel are saying:
"We offer fantastic plans.. but if you intend on using them to their fullest extent, expect to get booted"

and exactly where did you interpret that from? - I'd sure be interested in a link to any statement / action by Exetel that supports that claim

duncan writes...

Then they're clearly trolling for customers with unprofitable plans.

No - they're clearly shedding customers who cost more than they're worth after the contract has expired as they are entitled to do in exactly the same way that the customer is entitled to do although the customer doesn't even have to give notice!

Its called bait and switch by most ethical-minded people.

As they can't know you're going to cost them more than you pay until after the event, it can't be "bait"; and certainly not "switch" because terminating the service in accordance with the terms and conditions is definitely not switching anything.

So, no, it's not bait and switch at all which would be illegal.

Their business model seems to rely on the customer _not_ using the plan they're on.

That's an opinion that's little hard to justify don't you think given the size of the data allowances Exetel provide compared with nearly all other ISPs?

mce writes...

Once again, I say that if Exetel got problems fixed before they got to the TIO stage then none of this would be happening.

Obviously so do Exetel, but the fact is that in at least one of the documented instances (which thread has since been deleted) the fixing of the problem was out of Exetel's control and rested with Optus (and no doubt Telstra ultimately) and took weeks to be resolved even after the TIO became involved.

In fact, if you look at the complaints to the TIO from other ISPs' customers I can't spot even one ISP which doesn't make the list. So what you say applies equally to every ISP.

Another bully-boy tactic from Exetel !! How surprising <sarcasm>

Larry K must have a set of dice or ouja board with customers names on them that picks at random and then sends them the 30 days love letter. He must love his job so much to be such a bastard.

I think this is an intimadatory tactic to forewarn any potention customer going to the TIO and these customers are clearly being made an example of.

a.c.d writes...

As they can't know you're going to cost them more than you pay until after the event, it can't be "bait"; and certainly not "switch" because terminating the service in accordance with the terms and conditions is definitely not switching anything.

They can prevent negative income from customers by doing some freakin business planning first. Don't design plans that won't make money!

I think Exetel should at least give a reasonable explanation to the customer. Maybe people can come to an agreement so the exetel can come clean, possibly even make money if exetel lost money on a customer by booting them they just lost any chance to make there money back.(FOR THAT CUSTOMER) Charging them for extra customer service or for the extra downloads (for each problem customer) might help changing isp's cost the customer money and down time there has to be a better solution to this problem. I'm with exetel and im reasonably happy sometimes slow a peak periods but you get what you pay for don't you?

PS Wouldn't it be better to give the customer warning about downloading to much and coming to an agreement then loosing the customer some ppl may leave but i bet most would stay.

duncan writes...

Don't design plans that won't make money!

Thanks for that insight;

1. So how many ISP's have you setup and run?

2. Perhaps you can share some insights on how to manage suppliers and ensure they meet their SLA's on an ongoing basis

3. Share with us where the crystal ball is located that predicts the future pricing and offering strategy of those carriers offering wholesale services

BTW - while you are at it could you post something that substantiates your earlier claims - forum-replies.cfm?t=949160&p=2#r31

killer 69 writes...

I think Exetel should at least give a reasonable explanation to the customer. Maybe people can come to an agreement so the exetel can come clean,

'Good afternoon Sir/Madam,
We at Exetel are doing some 'spring cleaning' and have discovered your account is a liability for us... ....

Something along those lines?.. Seriously, the T & Cs say they will give 30 days notice ,thats what they did.

I've sent a complaint to TIO twice re: Exetel but my service wasn't terminated by them.

I chose leave Exetel of my own accord.

This looks promising for what WAS going to be an Exetel signup for me recently. I've not read every single post in this thread, but did a fairly good skim-read.

As far as I'm concerned, if the business creates a rateplan & then has to terminate individual customers who attempt to get the most out of this plan, they should not be selling such a plan. I agree with the person on the first page who mentioned 'bait & switch' advertising.

You simply can't offer one thing, and terminate someone's account when they utilise the plan. Simply modify your rates and market/act/operate as a legitimate business.

"They can prevent negative income from customers by doing some freakin business planning first. Don't design plans that won't make money!"

Absolutely. It has become clear to Exetel that some of their plans can be used in such a way which apparently causes them to lose money. At this point it would be a wise decision to either modify your plans, or accept that you may lose $$ on a few customers (and deal with it...) in order to have others signup seeing a good rateplan.

you obviously didn't read about the new plans.. good luck :)

sh0nky, being only a potential Exetel customer I've done some homework but have obviously not found every post. Looking at the plan announcements on their forum doesn't do much to stop the feeling that if I was to regularly use or get close to my full quota, I may then have to find another ISP (and subsequently pay a new connection fee etc.). Its just a feeling that this thread creates & I have posted because I doubt I'm the only one thinking it.

Im not trying to persuade you in any way... merely suggesting you read between the lines....
I notice a few of the 'whingers' here have had bad manners, cant follow instructions and use the TIO as a system to 'bully' Exetel when all they have done is whats in the best interests of the greater majority.
Not to mention that their customers know their account can be terminated at anytime after the contract has ended with 30 days notice, and all have been happy to agree to it.( Though it seems only if their allowed to whinge in hindsight)..
All smart businesses have to make decisions like this and not everyone will be happy with it... but that's business and you need to look for the ISP you feel has your needs covered.

Edit: I also fail to see where you come to the conclusion that if you use or get near your quota ,you will be terminated.
I only see evidence that if Exetel deem your account to cost them more than others on the 'SAME' plan, and no future profit can be predicted being made from your account... then yes they will terminate it. Simple as that.

Fair enough there mate. I've worked in telco's for about 5 years now & certainly understand that its impossible to make everyone happy.

What you said in your edit is the part that is worrying. Basically it leaves them open to skim the higher usage customers off their services whether or not they reach quotas. I made an assumption that if a user signed up to a given plan, they would not be terminated post-contract if that plan was (a) still offered, and (b) using it within the advertised rate-table/terms.

I do appreciate your comments as well.... there's too many ppl on whirlpool who are quick on the attack & don't attempt to converse like you have here. :)

bodogbodog writes...

Thanks for that insight;

1. So how many ISP's have you setup and run?

2. Perhaps you can share some insights on how to manage suppliers and ensure they meet their SLA's on an ongoing basis

3. Share with us where the crystal ball is located that predicts the future pricing and offering strategy of those carriers offering wholesale services

BTW - while you are at it could you post something that substantiates your earlier claims - forum-replies.cfm?t=949160&p=2#r31

This argument is bull..

Most _reasonable_ business operators realise the value of customer loyalty (and the power of word of mouth).

If it purely a problem with cost of the expired plan, why are these users not offered a changeover to new plans? Why exactly are they being given the heave-ho?

Answer: because the current plans are just as flimsy profit-wise as the last ones, and Exetel knows it'll lose money on them if the user's history (ie: actually using a plan to its fullest) is anything to go by.

No, I don't have proof. This is all speculation. But the circumstantial evidence certainly doesn't dispute it.

if u use your quota and dont mess with other peoples minds........u will have no problems with exetel

if u go over quota u will pay $3 a GB
if u are someone who uses a lot of P2P (which i dont use or even understand) u have huge latitude in off peak to do just that

the intent of this thread was to create unease in peoples mind.
of course it was

all i can say is that i am out of contract now/again and i am going back for my 5th year.... i think it is .....and i dont expect any hassles with any staff.
they have been great for me
i am just a little olde lady who seems to manage ok

Lonx writes...

Looking at the plan announcements on their forum doesn't do much to stop the feeling that if I was to regularly use or get close to my full quota, I may then have to find another ISP

I don't believe that anyone has suggested users are being asked to leave because they are using all of their quota.

The commonality amongst the 5 or 6 known cases seems to be that they are on Optus ADSL2+, are no longer under contract and have lodged complaints about their connection with the TIO.

oldtimewoman writes...

the intent of this thread was to create unease in peoples mind.
of course it was

This is absolutely correct.

No Exetel user is kicked off for using their plan to it's fullest extent. I've done exactly that for over three years, and nobody from Exetel has ever said boo to me.

People are kicked off Exetel when they go onto the Exetel forum and start bullying staff and other users, make smart-arse remarks, and generally try to raise a little hell.

The only time the TIO comes into it is because these same users usually go running off crying to the TIO after their unruly and unacceptable behavior gets them into trouble.

In my experience of observing others, anyone with a genuine complaint about their service who uses the facilities which Exetel has made available, has had nothing but good and appropriate customer service to resolve their issues.

This thread has been moved along over the last few days by only a very small number of people with obvious grievences. there have only been 26 respondants to the poll so far, of which 18 claimed Exetel gave no explanation for terminating their service, and 13 claimed they were given an explanation.... but that adds up to 31, so obviously the figures are fudged... probably by non-Exetel trolls who dropped by to have a bit of fun.

The point is that the poll is worthless. Even if the numbers were correct, we're still talking 26 people out of a user base of over 60,000.

And don't give me that old furphy about not all of the potentially unhappy users being Whirlpool members. The fact is that Exetel does no advertising, so all of it's users are gained by word-of-mouth.

And the biggest ADSL word-of-mouth in Australia is Whirlpool.

And just as another bit of evidence that Exetel does not mind people using their download limit, is the fact that they've just raised most of the 8192/384 download limits by quite large amounts. (go check your user facilities) I believe the limit for TELP has not been raised, but the price has been reduced by $5/mth instead.

I'm happy to stick with Exetel for the foreseeable future.

Midnight Rider writes...

I believe the limit for TELP has not been raised, but the price has been reduced by $5/mth instead.

I'm on the TELP plan, I still see $105.

xnor writes...

At first glance it may seem that way. However, according to TIO statistics Exetel had 377 complaints lodged against them in relation to Internet services between 1 July 2006 and 30 June 2007. www.tio.com.au/publicati.../PDF/PartSix.pdf

Thanks for the link, its interesting to see the numbers of unhappy customers each ISP have had.

Its probably a good guide for anyone checking out an ISP they are interested in.

The one that caught my attention was Dodo with 15937 complaints, I guess the 1 Dodo customer that hasn't lodged a complaint yet with the TIO doesn't know the address.

Thanks to all who have posted since I did. I hope it didn't seem like I'm trying to stir the pot - as I honestly am not. I was trying to find out a little more & appreciate the replies.

THANK CHRIST. I THOUGHT I WAS JUST ME . . . .

Yes, I got jack of repeated affirmations by exetel staffers saying, ". . . the technician will be out to fix your phone on the 12th . . . (then calling back days later with) oh, it's changed to the 16th now, . . . (then another day later) oh, hang on, it's the 20th - they're really busy you know now . . . . .

After the third time, plus, my mobile phone meter kranking over, I finally did what I have never dreamed of doing and got the TIO involved. Now, my issue wasn't with Exetel, which I clearly outlined, after several conversations with my Exetel contact - I established that there was nothing that they could do - so, my issue was lodged as "Telstra via Exetel" . . .

Well, didn't I get a serve. An Exetel rep basically shouted me down for having the nerve to lodge with the TIO - even calling into question my mental health status (which isn't perfecct, but, none of his business anyway !).

So, to cut a long story short . . . . I am having my ADSL2 service terminated at the bequest of the Exetel staffer who blatantly did not like the TIO thing.

Like others - there was no explanation - no offering a solution, to an issue - just - terminated.

WP has been involved twice in my relationshiop with Exetel. First, when I found Exetel 4 years ago on this website, and now, finding the reason behind being booted off as a customer.

Would anyone care to offer up where I can find a great IP !

Radical Posture writes...

Would anyone care to offer up where I can find a great IP !

What number would you like? - you can change your IP anytime you like with Exetel

but I suspect you actually want this WP forum - forum-threads.cfm?f=92

Radical Posture writes...

Well, didn't I get a serve. An Exetel rep basically shouted me down for having the nerve to lodge with the TIO - even calling into question my mental health status (which isn't perfecct, but, none of his business anyway !)

Sounds like you have had the pleasure of dealing with Mr Larry K.

So, to cut a long story short . . . . I am having my ADSL2 service terminated at the bequest of the Exetel staffer who blatantly did not like the TIO thing.

Yes, unfortunately this bullying and intimidation is becoming rife there.

Would anyone care to offer up where I can find a great IP !

I would suggest Internode. All I have suggested them to seems to like them and their dealings with customers.

Good luck in the future with your new ISP.

Thank you.

I must say though. Like I have stated, I don't, and haven't had an issue with Exetel per se. I have been shown the door - I have known that I can leave whenever I want - I've never felt the need to do so. I'd always thought Exetel was the best kept secret in the IP game.

Cheers.

mce writes...

I would suggest Internode. All I have suggested them to seems to like them and their dealings with customers.

Hi mce, I get the impression that you aren't happy with Exetel, so I am just a little curious as to why you don't churn to the Isp you have been recommending. cheers

Bronx19 writes...

I'm on the TELP plan, I still see $105.

Well, it's now been made official... www.exetel.com.au/a_plan_pricing_new.php

Well I am one of the ADSL2+ customers who complained to the TIO after Exetel repeatedly ignored my requests for support. It has been a busy few days, and tonight is the first time I have had a chance to skim read through this thread. There seems to be mulitple references to customer termination due to economic viability.

Well for interest's sake I have provided a link to a screenshot of my usage for the last 12 months.
NOTE: Since my ADSL2+ service was connected I have been on the 12GB (peak)plan.

img355.imageshack.us/img...etelusagede3.jpg

I don't classify my usage as beeing excessive in any way. In fact, you will notice that most months I am lucky to use up half my peaktime monthly quota, let alone the 40 odd gig of off peak allowance. Can't see how Exetel could have been losing too much money on me - other than the fee the TIO charged Exetel after I complained.

I honestly can't believe that an ISP could behave this way, not just a one off but a policy of kicking customers that are using the services that they were offered or making a complaint to the TIO when Exetel have failed to resolve it themselves.

My advice is to churn away while you have the chance.

Aperture Science writes...

My advice is to churn away while you have the chance.

These TIO-complainers had the chance, they are all (apparently) out of contract.

If you complain to the TIO, why not churn away after the contract ends? (Seriously, if you dislike ur ISP so much that you would complain to the TIO, then surely you would churn as soon as your contract finishes???)

They didn't, so Exetel tells them to leave.

And they are still complaining?

I don't get it.

Jaike writes...

If you complain to the TIO, why not churn away after the contract ends?

Why doesn't the ISP just provide enough resources to get faults fixed and to keep the complainants updated with information related to their faults.

Instead they chose a heavy handed way to deal with the situations.

Remember the complainants didn't want to have to escalate the fault to the TIO, but in the end they felt they had to, to get it resolved.

If you goto the TIO, then ur not happy with ur ISP.

So churn away when ur contract ends?

Pretty simple.

Jaike writes...

If you complain to the TIO, why not churn away after the contract ends? (Seriously, if you dislike ur ISP so much that you would complain to the TIO, then surely you would churn as soon as your contract finishes???)

I don't get it.

I complained after six weeks of no repsonse from Exetel support. I followed all of Exetel's instructions for support. I sent PMs and emails to Exetel reps after following advice on their forums to do so. Not once did someone from Exetel have the courtesy to reply. I was so pissed off that I lodged a complaint with the TIO. Six weeks is a fair length of time for someone to get back to you.

Anyways, since the problem has been fixed my service has been fine. In the last 16 months of ADSL2+ connection, this issue has been my only gripe with the service. Why would I churn away when the service has working fine for months?

I have not been complaining about Exetel constantly for months and months. I have only this week expressed disbelief after being told that my service will be disconnected for what seems like my complaint to the TIO.

e2ek writes...

I was so pissed off that I lodged a complaint with the TIO.

Why would you be happy to stay with an ISP that was so bad you had to resort to the TIO?

Anyways, since the problem has been fixed my service has been fine.

So who do you think fixed it?.... the TIO?

Why would you be happy to stay with an ISP that was so bad you had to resort to the TIO?

Because I am a Christian and I believe in forgiveness!!

If the issue is resolved to my satisfaction why should I leave? ... Just in case it happens again??

So who do you think fixed it?.... the TIO?

What does that have to do with anything?

mce writes...

Why doesn't the ISP just provide enough resources to get faults fixed

Because it is impossible for the ISP to fix faults that are outside their control and within the bailiwick of the supplier (in the only documented case it was Optus).

and to keep the complainants updated with information related to their faults.

Yeah, I still remember the customer who complained (1) that he was being harassed by Exetel's daily communication and (2) in another post claimed he never received any communication. There's just no pleasing some people any of the time :)

e2ek writes...

What does that have to do with anything?

I think it is important for you to demonstrate that going to the TIO fixed your internet problem.

If it didn't then it was in vain, and is costing you now.

A poor choice.

Yeah, I still remember the customer who complained (1) that he was being harassed by Exetel's daily communication and (2) in another post claimed he never received any communication. There's just no pleasing some people any of the time :)

True but the problem is that you don't see other isp's (i hope not any ways) kicking people that complain to the TIO its not like the people involved are over reacting. If you make a complaint because no one answers your PM, phone, call or email after 6 weeks then i would make a complaint too and no one should be punished for that. Exetel may be cheap but if your Internet is not working then what the point of using there services.

P S Exetel have poor service but it is cheap but they still need to have some sort of service I'm thinking of leaving exetel not for this reason but it has pushed me over the edge. This all may not even be true? It could be al a coincidence;)

Jaike writes...

If you goto the TIO, then ur not happy with ur ISP.

So churn away when ur contract ends?

Pretty simple.

You say that as if there's absolutely no barriers inhibiting people from doing that?

What about the costs involved with having to move to another ISP?
And the downtime?
And the hassle of having to change email addresses?
And not wanting to have to start a new contract all over again?

Are Exetel going to compensate people for those things, simply because they're delivering a below standard product?

Instead of trying to shift the blame onto the paying customers, perhaps you should be questioning why Exetel are failing to deliver the products/services which they've signed up - and PAID for - for in the first place?!?

bradp writes...

Instead of trying to shift the blame onto the paying customers, perhaps you should be questioning why Exetel are failing to deliver the products/services which they signed up for in the first place?!?

My sentiments exactly.

I guess you could draw a similarity between Exetel and MSY, cheap and dirty. Except msy deliver the product they promise, which leaves exetel as just cheap and dirty.

I apologise if that offends anyone, however do I see anything that ought to change my opinion of that?

Jaike writes...

If it didn't then it was in vain, and is costing you now.

A poor choice.

A poor choice? So you believe that is acceptable for Exetel to ignore their customer's support requests for weeks on end?

You have a unorthodox concept of good customer relations.

bradp writes...

What about the costs involved with having to move to another ISP?
And the downtime?
And the hassle of having to change email addresses?
And not wanting to have to start a new contract all over again?

Customers ought to factor in the costs when joining or leaving their isp after the contract period. No-one ought to assume they have some right to continue on from month to month; especially if they have complained to the TIO, imo.

e2ek writes...

So you believe that is acceptable for Exetel to ignore their customer's support requests for weeks on end?

Of course it is not okay.

But what did going to the TIO achieve? Unless that fixed your internet problem.... Did it?

Jaike writes...

But what did going to the TIO achieve? Unless that fixed your internet problem.... Did it?

Your either naive or playing dumb. Everyone knows that once a problem escalated via the TIO your problem has high priority to be resolved, if it is ignored then it goes onto the next level.

To answer your question Unless that fixed your internet problem yes it does doesn't have to be directly but it definitely forces them to get their act into gear in regards to your issue in order for a resolution to occur. They start to take responsibility for their service which should have happened before the TIO get involved, which doesn't happen as highlighted through numerous customer dealings.

Getting exetel to be charged the TIO fee when a complaint is made falls them due to their own poor service. They try to pass of their responsibility by simply washing their hands of the situation rather than dealing with it. As it has been said time and time again, the customers pay Exetel and it is the responsibility of exetel to chase up issues regarding their business that as a customer is what you are paying for.

especially if they have complained to the TIO
why especially what makes it so? A complaint can be made to the TIO a resolution process is set in motion problem gets solved. A customer has no more problems and enjoys the service they are paying. Getting the TIO involved does not have any greater bearing on continuing with the service.

Jaike writes...

Of course it is not okay.

But what did going to the TIO achieve? Unless that fixed your internet problem.... Did it?

So what would you have done? What other avenues would you have used to resolve the same type of problem after the same length of time? Or should I just have accepted the situation? I guess not - because you agree that the level of courtesy extended to me was less than acceptable.

Lodging the complaint with the TIO did not immediately resolve the issue, but I had three different people from Exetel put digit to keyboard and begin to communicate with me. In fact within 10 minutes of posting on their forums that I had lodged a complaint, ForumAdmin PM'ed me.

So looking back, complaining to the TIO was an effective method in motovating Exetel support to respond to my numerous requests for assistance.

mce writes...

Remember the complainants didn't want to have to escalate the fault to the TIO

in fact this wingers actually do go to the TIO jumping the gun, repeatedly so, and in the first instance, and they have an almighty jump up and down, lies and all, with so much blown out of proportion

they are often contradicted with facts, especially all that crap of 'I called, I e-mail, I rang' lies, then usually when the ISP show the logs, dates/times, these liars tails scroll up under their bum, and they wimper down conceed and back off with their lies they can't back up

bradp writes...

What about the costs involved with having to move to another ISP?
And the downtime?
And the hassle of having to change email addresses?
And not wanting to have to start a new contract all over again?


What about the costs of the ISP of 95% of reported cases being false ie: not a fault of the service - does the ISP charge these who claims a fautl with the service and when the ISP and their suppliers do checks there is no fault of the service

What about the downtime where the fault is with misconfigured modem/p2p software/security app/firewall the end user setup or default installed but they blame the ISP for that because they are so stupid or don't know how to troubleshoot, but they think 'I'll call my ISP because I can't get online so it must be THEIR fault'

Why not use hotmail, gmail

Don't be cheap and pay upfront to not have any minimum term placed on you.

So what would you have done?

If the internet service was as bad as you claim, I would have gone to the TIO with the intention of being released from my contract for free. And I would have found another provider.

To go to the TIO with a complaint against your ISP but now you are happy with their service, and now complain that after your contract ends you are forced to change providers is too much.

You want your cake and you want to eat it too. Clearly Exetel isn't going to let you.

Jaike writes...

Customers ought to factor in the costs when joining or leaving their isp after the contract period. No-one ought to assume they have some right to continue on from month to month; especially if they have complained to the TIO, imo.

By the same token then, the ISP should factor in 1 (or 2) TIO calls per customer per year into the costings of each plan and if their service is not substandard then it is a bonus and not a liability.

Pretty simple.

mce writes...

per customer per year

I'm sure you don't mean per customer per year.

into the costings of each plan and if their service...

I am guessing Exetel's margins and/or performance levels don't allow for that.

Jaike writes...

I'm sure you don't mean per customer per year.

Yep I actually mean, per customer per month.

mce writes...

Yep I actually mean, per customer per month.

You think each customer each month should have 1 or 2 TIO referrals factored into their account?

I'm sure Exetel aren't that bad.

Exetel are as bad as these forums outline them to be. No matter how many drones praise them they continue to display a real lack of morality or ethics when dealing with THEIR customers. If a customer has a complaint they should adress it and deal with it as it's a part of business. This is something they are not dealing with, opting to terminate difficult customers.

One foreseable outcome if Exetel continue on this path is increased costs from dealing with increased complaints - from either the TIO or their own customers

Removed by me.

Jaike, I've removed you from my original post ;)

mypen writes...

This is something they are not dealing with, opting to terminate difficult customers.

Sounds like a good business strategy to me.

xnor writes...

Sounds like a good business strategy to me.

They should be focusing on ways to keep customers and not ways to get rid of customers.

That sounds like a better business strategy to me.

mce writes...

They should be focusing on ways to keep customers and not ways to get rid of customers.

Why would any company want to keep unhappy customers?

mypen writes...

One foreseable outcome if Exetel continue on this path is increased costs from dealing with increased complaints - from either the TIO or their own customers

Why not get rid of customers threatening to push up costs?

Chairman Kaga writes...

Why not get rid of customers threatening to push up costs?

Because that's not good business. Why not try to keep the customers you have and listen to their issues to see if you can be resolve them?

What sort of mickey mouse company do you work for?

mypen writes...

Why not try to keep the customers you have and listen to their issues to see if you can be resolve them?

If the customers are losing you money, and are unlikely to ever make you money, why would you keep them?

Isn't it possible that some customers have characteristics which would mean they would never be profitable for a provider like Exetel. These may include the user's support requirements, their expectations, their understanding of the internet and the technology used to deliver it to them.

The fact that a customer complains to the TIO and costs Exetel an additional fee of about $70 would also enter into that equation.

Exetel is a company that doesnt rely on advertising to generate interest in their product. They rely primarily on word of mouth to sell their offerings. As Exetel provide a very basic support system (with a focus on reducing overheads) they tend to rely on those with a bit of technical knowledge who aren't afraid to tackle their own technical issues if and when they arise. Accordingly, this level of support doesnt not appeal to the "mums and dads" who have no idea about computers or trouble shooting their internet connection when is not working.

With a tarnished reputation, don't you think it is slightly risky undertaking in these practices when a fair chunk of your customer base is derived from those in the know that frequent public forums like Whirlpool? I could understand this behaviour if it were a big multinational company like Telstra or Optus who were terminating customers. But a small company that relies on "enthusiasts" is treading on shaky ground by terminating those who can have the greatest potential in affecting their bottom line.

Personally I have recommended Exetel to 12 people in the last three years. When it comes to recommending an ISP, if others like me have some influence among their family, friends, work colleagues etc. just think of the damage to Exetel's reputation that this practice may cause.

While I am not that naive to think that I single handedly will bring down Exetel, I do believe that my experience (as well as others that have been terminated) will have a negative impact on Exetel's business. By terminating me, Exetel have not increased their profitabilty as much as they anticipated. Imagine how many people reading the various threads in this forum that have now thought twice about signing up to Exetel. Now combine that with the people I encounter that are turned off from Exetel when I inform them about my experiences. Now times that by the number of people terminated..... Starts to add up.

mypen writes...

Because that's not good business.

And being dragged to the TIO by a mob of vexatious bush lawyers is?

Why not try to keep the customers you have and listen to their issues to see if you can be resolve them?

Why not give the whingers the flick, keep prices as low as possible and attract more users who appreciate what they are getting - lots of downloads for not much money.

It mightn't be good business as far as you're concerned, but Exetel has climbed steadily to be the 6th most common ISP used by Whirlpool members.

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser!