Whirlpool

ok im on spin dsl 256/64 and i accept its a slow connection but i get simple time outs when i ping places
like
www.google.com 223 ms
or
www.telstra.com 172 ms

i get ping outs or i get fantastic ping reply's. now im pretty cool with the good reply's but im pretty pissed with having to hit refresh in my browser all the dam time. cos i get page failed to load errors

now i considered dogey browser so i tried opera and I.E neither were any better. nope same errors. long time outs and also emails wont send or receive i get connection errors lately.

so i logged in to my adsl modem to see what it would say

Showtime Firmw
Line State: SHOWTIME
Modulation: G.dmt
Annex Mode: ANNEX_A
Startup Attempts: 2
Max Tx Power: -38 dBm/Hz
CO Vendor: GLOBESPAN
Elaspsed Time: 9 days 14 hours 59 minutes 47 seconds

..................................­ .Downstream........Upstream
SNR Margin...................12.3.....­ ...............8.0 dB
Line Attenuation.........57.6..........­ ............29.0 dB
Errored Seconds.........4896..............­ .......24
Loss of Signal...............1............­ .............1
Loss of Frame..............0..............­ .............0
CRC Errors..................4963......­ ...............17
Data Rate...................1536.......­ ..............64 kbps
Latency ......................FAST........­ ..............FAST

can anyone see a reason for this dam connection to be so dogey... i had a rep from helstra come out and repair the physical line. it was giving read outs of 4 whats its turns out the connection was dogey months ago due to no water shielding on the wires they were just twisted together with some tape on them. now they are reading at the wall socket 10's so they are perfect from that point of view. so its either the exchange modem or spin/comcen

i even tried my ubuntu system to test it out and got same ugly responses is it me or is it spin / comcen or is it further up the list

i just played some more if i try to post here i get a message
The connection has timed out
blah blah blah
# The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few
moments.

# If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network
connection.

# If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure
that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

the irony is i then pinged www.telstra.com
and then www.optus.com.au
half way through each set of 4 it would change from request timed to a reply of 17x ms responses so its verry odd.

any thoughts would be grand

animatrix writes...

can anyone see a reason for this dam connection to be so dogey

Errors.

animatrix writes...

CRC Errors..................4963......­

animatrix writes...

Errored Seconds.........4896..

These are quite excessive, and thats over a period of 9 days. I may get one error over 30 days...

animatrix writes...

Line Attenuation.........57.6.

LIne attenuation is quite high, although, you have a reasonable SNR of 12.3

Its interesting that your downstream rate is 1536K, yet you are on a 256K plan? I know that sometimes the line is allowed to sync at a higher rate, and the actual rate you get is controlled elsewhere. Possibly, if your modem was syncing at a lower rate, there may not be as many errors.

Each time those errors occur would probably mark the times that you experience having to refresh pages.

It might be worth talking to the tech support area of your provider.

EDIT: Just another thought, how far from the exchange do you think you might be (cable-wise)? I know its not a super accurate indication, as we dont know the size of your cable etc.

I as as I'm just trying to work out where the high line attenuation is coming from... IS it just pure distance from the exchange and small (0.4 size) line cable, or is there maybe a fault with your line.

ok i suspect im around 1 k from the exchange as it is quite close.

next

how do i change the Line Attenuation.........57.6 is that a user definable feature?

animatrix writes...

how do i change the Line Attenuation

You cant. It is a measured figure, showing how much loss there is in the line between you and the exchange.

My line attenuation is 19.5, and I am more than 1km from the exchange, probably closer to 2km. If you are that close, you should be getting a similar result. Also, my sync speed is 8032 down, 384 up.

My experience says that you may have a line problem. That amount of loss (57dB) at about 1km or so is definitely not good.

Have you/can you try another modem? Also, it may be worth trying an isolation test, where the modem is the only thing plugged into the line (no phones etc) and if you can, plug it into your first socket if you know which one it is.

I also should have asked you how is your modem/phone(s) setup and what filter(s) you are using on the line for your phone(s)... The isolation test I suggested above will eliminate any other gear causing the bad loss figure.

Let us know how you go, and I will continue to try and help you.

My figures, just for info:

Sync speed 8032 down..........384 up
Output pwr 0dBm down..........(-)19.8dBm up
SNR 13dB down..........25dB up
Line atten 19.5dB down........12dB up

EricDog writes...

LIne attenuation is quite high

that would be an understatement. i am pretty sure i read before of telstra refusing to give people adsl if it was over 55 or 56(had a quick look but couldnt find the post ATM).

That amount of loss (57dB) at about 1km or so is definitely not good.

totally agree.

animatrix - if once you have done the tests EricDog mentioned there is no change you should give Spin a call and tell them your stats and the tests you did so they can advise you.

sweet im going to play now will be back soon with some results

ok i installed a new modem i had here just to see and it did make a small difference but not enough i have one other thing left i can try

Modem Status
Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 64
Ds Rate (Kbps) 1120
US Margin 8
DS Margin 10
Trained Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 52
US Line Attenuation 25
Peak Cell Rate 150 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast 11
CRC Tx Fast 1
CRC Rx Interleaved 0
CRC Tx Interleaved 0
Path Mode Fast Path

DSL Statistics
Near End F4 Loop Back Count 0
Near End F5 Loop Back Count 0

animatrix writes...

Ds Rate (Kbps) 1120

You could have a bad line filter try removing all line filters and phones and see if your connection improves.

If not then you have a line problem.

animatrix, did you try the isolation test with just the modem plugged in, and no phones, filters, faxes etc ?

This is important, as it will govern your next course of action.

Let us know if (when) you did this, and how you went. You may need to leave it like that for a little while, as it seems that your problems are spread over time. I know it might be a bit inconvenient not to have your phone plugged in, but it will help us to give you better advice.

Cheers,

TLD.

yep i sure did

i left it off over most of the night to test the line out while i was awake but would not effect the wife or kids. don't get many calls after 8 pm

so i was able to test this with some certainty about no interruptions.

so test done no major difference

Modem Status

Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 64
Ds Rate (Kbps) 1120
US Margin 8
DS Margin 9
Trained Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 52
US Line Attenuation 25
Peak Cell Rate 150 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast 227
CRC Tx Fast 1
CRC Rx Interleaved 0
CRC Tx Interleaved 0
Path Mode Fast Path
DSL Statistics

Near End F4 Loop Back Count 0
Near End F5 Loop Back Count 0

i got better attenuation on the line but not enough to claim a victory. i have one last test i can do to check but i cant do that till after i go to the shop to buy a new phone line as the one i have is old and may be under weighted for todays dsl modems.

i did notice i have had fewer error with this dsl modem than the other i was using

Transmit

Tx PDUs 54244
Tx Total Bytes 7066430
Tx Total Error Counts 0
Receive

Rx PDUs 66927
Rx Total Bytes 59235099
Rx Total Error Counts 14

i moved from my nb1300 to my nb1300+4

seems to have gained a area of better error control dunno why but alas im no expert. at least the udp from comcen dns servers is no longer giving me hassles. but this is still too big a error count for me or for the line attenuation im sure its not the actual line cos a helstra contractor came out about 3 months ago cos i was complaining of constant static on the line. or a total lack of line periodically they came out tested it it was rating under 4 witch is the limit for them any lower and they need to fix it. so they traced from the wall socket to the street and at the street they found it was 2 wires twisted and connected together with insulation tape around 10 + years ago it is no wonder there has been no decent connections to that point. so he put in some sealed plugs and bam it worked at 10 much better and clearer line now.

so i know its not the actual line to the street i guess its either the line from the wall socket. or i cant explain it hence the trip to the shop tomorrow to get a new bit of phone wire lol.

any further observation or advice please feel free...

animatrix writes...

Ds Rate (Kbps) 1120

You should be getting a 1536 rate, if you have removed all line filters and checked all connections and your only still getting this then you have a line problem.

Or you have a phone, alarm system, answering machine, caller ID unit, remote ringer, fax machine, cordless phone, dialup modem, or some other of the thousands of pieces of telecom equipment plugged in WITHOUT a filter.

Your line attenuation represents 4-5Km of cable - maybe more. If that's not right, then you certainly have an issue. Check all your phone points, rip out your alarms monitoring cable, etc and check again.

If you're triple checked everything, make sure you check again, then call Spin tech support and tell them what you've done.

Oh - and make sure if you remove EVERYTHING from the line that you don't have a filter on the modem :)

EDIT: Oh, and phone extension cords and ADSL don't mix. When you do your testing, do it straight into the phone point.

CRC writes...

Or you have a phone, alarm system, answering machine, caller ID unit, remote ringer, fax machine, cordless phone, dialup modem, or some other of the thousands of pieces of telecom equipment plugged in WITHOUT a filter.


Yep, I've guided him through an isolation test, and its still no good, and, I agree that the attenuation is indicative of 4+ Km of cable, yet he says that he is possibly 1Km from the exchange. He should be getting results at least as good as mine (as I posted).

I'm leaning toward it being a line problem, particularly if he's had noise/dropout issues with the voice component of his line...

Boostland writes...

You should be getting a 1536 rate

Its interesting that he had 1536 before, now its 1120 (on a different modem). Definitely an odd one...

CRC writes...

If you're triple checked everything, make sure you check again, then call Spin tech support and tell them what you've done.

Yep, that was my suggestion earlier in the thread, once he had done the tests I'd recommended.

EricDog writes...

Yep, I've guided him through an isolation test, and its still no good, and, I agree that the attenuation is indicative of 4+ Km of cable, yet he says that he is possibly 1Km from the exchange. He should be getting results at least as good as mine (as I posted).

I'm leaning toward it being a line problem, particularly if he's had noise/dropout issues with the voice component of his line...

Its interesting that he had 1536 before, now its 1120 (on a different modem). Definitely an odd one...

Yep, that was my suggestion earlier in the thread, once he had done the tests I'd recommended.

ok so i tested everythign and i got

Modem Status

Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 64
Ds Rate (Kbps) 1120
US Margin 8
DS Margin 9
Trained Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 52
US Line Attenuation 25
Peak Cell Rate 150 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast 227
CRC Tx Fast 1
CRC Rx Interleaved 0
CRC Tx Interleaved 0
Path Mode Fast Path
DSL Statistics

Near End F4 Loop Back Count 0
Near End F5 Loop Back Count 0

still with total line isolation.

so i changed isp and now i get

System Uptime: 390 hours 33 minutes
DSL Status: Connected
DSL Speed: 256/1536kbps

Modem Status

Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 256
Ds Rate (Kbps) 1536
US Margin 8
DS Margin 13
Trained Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 35
US Line Attenuation 16
Peak Cell Rate 603 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast 0
CRC Tx Fast 0
CRC Rx Interleaved 0
CRC Tx Interleaved 0
Path Mode Fast Path
DSL Statistics

Near End F4 Loop Back Count 0
Near End F5 Loop Back Count 0

so i am glad i left they really did not help me at all

the new isp made it all go away with a few tweaks at their end

Hrrrm – so it was a line fault....

These bits here say it all...

Old:
Ds Rate (Kbps) 1120
US Margin 8
DS Margin 9
CRC Rx Fast 227
CRC Tx Fast 1

Now:
Ds Rate (Kbps) 1536
US Margin 8
DS Margin 13
CRC Rx Fast 0
CRC Tx Fast 0

Your downstream margin has gone from 9 to 13, your downstream rate has gone to what it should be, and your downstream attenuation has decreased substantially (52 -> 35).

This is a perfect indication of a before and after for a line fault. Or a badly fitted filter ;)