Hi, wondering if anyone knows of any ISP which offers web site filtering at the ISP level, as in no extra software to install on the PC. (Hence can't be undone by teenagers). Doesn't matter if it is at an extra cost.
Many thanks.

I've never heard of one, but there may be one out there.

What exactly are you trying to restrict? Specific websites? like youtube or something? Or is it like P2P? Porn?

How computer smart are your teens? Because almost every thing like that can be bypassed somehow (even at isp level)

I believe he'll be smart enough to work it out if it is installed on the PC. Mainly porn sites. P2P may be too difficult for isolating what is what, without blocking everything. Hopefully the nature of P2P being slower, means won't need to come to that. The aim is to increase the "bother" level, and reducing the frequency he consumes the stuff, if that's inevitable...

Block it on the router and use a password they won't know ...

Tek

Use a keylogger. Any software can be bypassed. Even at ISP level. Get a logging router or install a keylogger (make sure it's a good safe one). If China can't manage to filter porn then do you think "we" can?

Whatever happened to Parental control at the Parent level ?

Tell him / her / them what's inappropriate. Monitor usage (as suggested above) and impose appropriate penalties for indescretions.

If you can't do this, how is a Third Party supposed to ?

Regards,
Chris.

Chris C. writes...

Whatever happened to Parental control at the Parent level ?

Tell him / her / them what's inappropriate. Monitor usage (as suggested above) and impose appropriate penalties for indescretions.

Here here!!

To me it is no different to using the car, or staying at home when the parents go away. If the resource is abused then the resource suddenly becomes unavailable.

Parents should take control not ISP's

Chris C. writes...

If you can't do this, how is a Third Party supposed to ?

I agree. A parent shouldnt put parenting responsibilities onto someone else.

here's a good way to monitor it at the ISP level, get dial up.

wikipedia and whirlpool work fine on dial up, myspace, youtube & porn however do not.

Agree with the others. Trying to get other entities to control your kid's behaviour is not going to work, and there's too much of it these days.

Put the computer in a public room in the house, with the screen facing into the room. Of course, if he's in the house on his own, that won't work as the only measure, but a great deal of on line nasty behaviour can be fixed simply by others being able to see what the person is accessing.

wpsleepy writes...

Hi, wondering if anyone knows of any ISP which offers web site filtering at the ISP level,

WebShield (www.webshield.com.au) offers such a service. Optus also have parental controls on their Internet services which you can enable in their customer toolbox.

can't be undone by teenagers

Buckleys and none, mate :-)

- mark

Wow thanks heaps guys! That should be enough ammunition for me LOL.

Edit: oh about ISP responsibility - i have no intention of shifting blame at all. ISP is just a tool. If a more powerful one comes along that can offer this feature then i'd like to know that's all.

wpsleepy writes...

If a more powerful one comes along that can offer this feature then i'd like to know that's all.

Try setting up a parental filter in the router. P2P is quite easy to kill as well. Simply only allow 4 ports (25, 110, 80 and 8080) access to the outside world. P2P is dead.

As for the parental filter, simply find the favored sites (shouldn't be too hard to do), and then keep adding them to a blacklist. Eventually they will just give up.

Try a Netgear DG834. I've got one, and it's got all these options.

Zedd D1abl0 writes...

Simply only allow 4 ports (25, 110, 80 and 8080) access to the outside world.

Which does not solve the issue does it? Read the original post.

As for the parental filter, simply find the favored sites (shouldn't be too hard to do), and then keep adding them to a blacklist.

Not a resonable solution. Kids can be very very sneaky and what you suggest is not going to work.

Eventually they will just give up.

LOL. Yea right.

Parental control and keylogging. Maybe a filter but you should realise it's not going to work for most kids that want to get around it.

Set the DNS servers to possibly to OpenDNS (set yourself up an account)

Kids will possibly look at DNS settings, most will assume they are correct, (either your router or isp's details are there, rarely will kids change it, although known to happen)

You can apply restrictions via opendns, some simple tick boxes to keep out 'adult material', adverts etc...

Can even do auto-correction on DNS, eg.. www.website.cmo will be corrected on the OpenDNS servers to www.website.com

A few nifty features.

Havent every seen any downtime with their dns (due to anycast, and a large base of servers across the world)

It's one solution we use at 3 of my work sites, ontop of other filtering systems.

Porn was partly the motivation that made the internet what it is today. By nerdy programmers who found it easier to exchange smut than to perhaps form lasting relationships.

Even if you did succeed in blocking their access at home, they may very well get it from elsewhere. Maybe some dirty older person elsewhere. Depends how desperate / curious / ill-informed they are.

Therefore it might be better for them to discover these things under your reluctant supervision, than banish them to discover it elsewhere.

That's my $0.02 and I haven't change for a $1.

Thanks guys again. Yeah he knows about porn already. There's nothing i can do to prevent the occasional peek. It's now more about making sure it doesn't become a downward spiral.

stick the computer he uses in the middle of the lounge room / family room...

wpsleepy writes...

(Hence can't be undone by teenagers)

I doubt this would even be possible, if someone has enough knowledge, they can get around anything.

In theory, if your isp was filtering your internet, all you would be required to do in order to get around it would be to use an anonymising service. There are way too many ways to get around it.
I say, if he/she wants to look at porn, let them.
A teenagers mind works in such a way that by filtering the internet, they will just try even harder to get around the filtering, just to prove that they can defy you, and undermine your authority.

Personaly, I would suggest that rather than filtering out what the are looking at, you monitor what they are looking at. get a hidden program that records all system events, websites viewed, programs/files opened, and captures snapshots of the screen.

OpenDNS provides such a service, as mentioned above.

Another solution would be to buy a Netgear or Linksys router. These have sophisticated internet filtering.

For example, on mine I can block by URL, keywords as well as use the integrated Trend Micro Parental Controls.

Speaking of OpenDNS, I am going to open an account with them as soon as I get home!

Windows Vista and Mac OS X leopard also have time restrictions and in OSX's case filtering options and complete logging of every single action taken while the user is logged on.

Upgrade to one of those OSs if you can - the filtering and loggin capabilities are extremely useful to me

EDIT: added info about vista & leopard

≤ Matt ≥ writes...

Windows Vista and Mac OS X leopard also have time restrictions and in OSX's case filtering options and complete logging of every single action taken while the user is logged on.

I've started to use Parental Controls and so far so good. I've blocked games that are MA +15 that I play and restricted it to medium restriction, blocked porn etc.

It has Vista Web filtering, time limits, game restriction and you can allow and block specific programs.

You can edit it to only allow websites which are on the allow list if you want. Collect info on what websites are being accessed etc. And prevent any downloading. Regardless of p2p (block program) or just downloading from a site.

Can he break the Administration password. I'm not sure, but I'd assume not?

My kids wouldn't go on purpose to those websites, but it's good to know there isn't a chance of it happening, even if it was by accident.

SomethingAlias writes...

Can he break the Administration password. I'm not sure, but I'd assume not?

I'm not too sure bout Home Premuim but in Vista Business which I use at home, theres a setting embedded within the Security Policy submenu that allows the admin account to be locked out for a certain period of time if the password is incorrect plus logging any security-related activity to the security audit from which you can check who logged in and if the password was compromised.

dodgyfilokid writes...

Vista Business

I've got Ultimate, you'd assume it'd be the same with all?

I'm happy with it though. I added IE7Pro today (Free Program), it seems to be blocking the adds I wanted blocked so far.

Vista Ultimate has all the features of Home Premium, Business and Enterprise editions so the auditing side and account control portions will be enabled.

SomethingAlias writes...

Can he break the Administration password. I'm not sure, but I'd assume not?

Mutiple ways for them to get it ;)

My kids wouldn't go on purpose to those websites,

Yes, as all parents say ;) My kids wouldn't do drugs ;)

but it's good to know there isn't a chance of it happening, even if it was by accident.

The only real option is education and parental monitoring.
You need both. Kids will get into it. it's what they do. It's quite normal but they need to understand. they need to know somethings are not acceptable, not right and not decent ;) they need to understand there is a lot of things out there that are "nasty". Hiding them from it will not work. If it's not your house it's another kids. work with them, not against them.

If all your controls are software based, hosts, registry control, policies, firewalls, tsr's/processes, that sort of stuff it will only work if your kids not too bright or motivated. At the router level is a little more effective.

For example why not make a boot CD with a *nix on it and perhaps a memory stick. Block optional boot options in bios if you like but unless you can lock your case with a real lock bios reset just involves pulling out the battery. Which you need to be able to do sin case of bad ettings.

Personally i would even prefer an EFI(new type of bios?) motherboard, or one of the Asus(?) ones with onboard linux.

The only truly effective filtering is a white list. Which means you need to add every single port, protocol and ip you wish them to be able to access. Even then you need to worry about hardware keyloggers/cams.

Think of the Chinese firewall. It doesn't work. And they have to block sites like wikipedia and youtube just because someone mentions Tiananmen. VPN's, tunneling, proxy's, caches, many methods to get around blacklists.

The webshield site looks like it would work if you really need to use it. Theres a price premium and it could be slower to use and a pain but perhaps you could use two seperate isp's.

AJS writes...

Mutiple ways for them to get it ;)

My children know the consequences.

But just so I can look into these "multiple ways" could you give them all to me to look into please AJS?

I'm interested.

Yes, as all parents say ;) My kids wouldn't do drugs ;)

My kids know all about drugs, I've informed them.

The only real option is education and parental monitoring.
You need both.

Done and Done.

Kids will get into it.

I still say mine wont, unless of course they are persuaded, but I think they're smarter than to follow the pack. I believe you have to think the best of your children. That's the best you can do, love them, trust them, be truthful with them, and if the crap hits the fan, pick the peices up, forgive them and move on.

I have a good understanding of parenting.

Kids will get into it.

Not necessarily. They will play up and try to stretch the boundaries. But if you give them enough space to grow and mature, they will.

Are you a Parent?

Have your children taken drugs?

SomethingAlias writes...

My children know the consequences.

Which means little to kids ;)

But just so I can look into these "multiple ways" could you give them all to me to look into please AJS?

Don't be silly. why should I spend an hour or more showing you something you could look into if you were bothered? IF you were bothered......

My kids know all about drugs, I've informed them.

Which means what? that they "know better"?

I still say mine wont, unless of course they are persuaded,

ahh yes, I have heard that one before ;) Parents often blame some one elses children.

but I think they're smarter than to follow the pack.

Which parents do you know that would say something other than this?

I believe you have to think the best of your children.

I think you have to be realistic and wise.

I have a good understanding of parenting.

Not really ;) Most parents say what you say. What makes you any different? Your kids are "special"? You think most other kids are bought up to smoke drugs or look for porn? On quite a few occasions I have had to show parents what there kids have been doing on the family pc. All of them had your attitude. Quite a few are still in denial even after seeing it. Which way will you go? Accept you made a mistake and learn from it or deny it?

Not necessarily. They will play up and try to stretch the boundaries. But if you give them enough space to grow and mature, they will.

What I said is accurate and you should stop dreaming ;)

Have your children taken drugs?

I am from a large family of non smokers who don't take drugs and were raised as well as or better than any other children. how many of my relations didn't do what they were bought up to understand and know was bad? I also have a family member who works in the social services. Your point of view is not accurate or likely to be the outcome. You need to wise up before you have to ;) The only reasonable point of view is the accurate one. What you say is said by most parents, often even when the kid is in front of a court they still do not accept it ;)

Most kids WILL get access to porn on the internet. Any parent who does not watch kids on the internet and monitor what is going on is an idiot. The internet is a playground FULL of perverts and sick people. Would you let your kids play in the local park without being watched? Yet the internet is far worse ;) MSN, chat rooms, facebook are a start. Filters can be breached, security can be worked around. Whitelists can be good IF you can secure the access or block it from being bypassed. Nothing is 100% which is why active logging and monitoring need to be done.

AJS writes...

Don't be silly. why should I spend an hour or more showing you something you could look into if you were bothered? IF you were bothered......

I have AJS and I find nothing, just the websites you found your information from would be enough.

I can teach myself quite well ;)

So you don't have children?

I can only speak for my own exampleship with my own children and what I believe is the truth, just like you.

edited --

www.teendrugabuse.us/teen_drug_use.html

I think a higher % of children/Teenagers wont take drugs even more so if there parents tell them about the cons.

That social worker you spoke probably only sees the negative side of what occurs.

I don't care who wins this conversation, I just don't agree with you.

I think a parent should take what ever step he or she thinks she should to insure there childs safety.

Why should I be negative about my children, specially when there doing the right thing? or even if they stuff up?

Not having a go AJS I'm just putting my 2 bob in as well.
I could go on about both good and bad stories, I know plenty of both.

wpsleepy writes...

Hi, wondering if anyone knows of any ISP which offers web site filtering at the ISP level, as in no extra software to install on the PC. (Hence can't be undone by teenagers). Doesn't matter if it is at an extra cost.
Many thanks.

Why don't you take some responsibility for your kid instead of passing the buck to someone else?
Here's an idea, put your computer in an open area and supervise your own kid if it's so important that he dosn't see a picture of a nude person.
This blanket ban on porn is lazy, how dare anyone decide what everyone can or can't see online.

If your like me wpsleepy, you don't always have the time. But the kids do need to get on for what ever reason.

My computer is in the lounge room, we don't have a TV.

What no TV? The children, my wife and I sit down together to watch a dvd every now and then, "supervised" or we watch it before they do.

My children mostly read books, but if they want to play a game on the net, at a child site, I let them.

Pre-chosen sites, checked and allowed.

My oldest has an email site and the other kids games site.

The younger kids have only the chosen game sites.

I'm never away from the computer for more than 5 minutes and in that time my wife has usually entered the lounge for some reason.

When the computer is on.

On a rare occation when we go for a walk around the block, (15 min) we leave the oldest in charge to supervise and allow her the privledge of surfing without us there, OW no.

I have the parent control and it works well, I can see what she has done while I've been gone. If she can find away around parent control in 15 minutes I would be very surprised.

Good luck getting what you need for your child/teenager. Everyone has a right to there own opinion even you. I don't believe that me or anyone else should impose a view and somehow shame you because of the decisions you make.

What does the law say, why are these programs made at all if it isn't socially acceptable.

I personally would be game to let my oldest on for 1/2 hour and feel secure. She can only go to email or games, if she wants to study I help her at an appropriate time for me. I spent at least an hour yesterday trying to find some way of breaking parent control on the net, I found only positive sites regarding it.

I have a Cert 3 in I.T and over 10 years experience with computers (building, repairs, troubleshooting). There may be something out there, I couldn't find it?

Do you really believe that my 12 year old daughter could find something better on the internet than me, I think I have a vague understanding of what the answer will be.

I don't know everything, no body does. I'm stretching the boundaries with my child, giving them a little freedom, the more they do the right thing the more a let them do/ more trust. And yes, I trust them, but I still use a parent control and supervise were possible.

I know - there friends can find it for her blah blah blah. She doesn't have any questionable friend.

She doesn't want those kind of friends, now say what ever contradiction or use my words out of context. I wont be back to this site ever again, good riddens you say. "Praise Jesus" I say. :)

I've decided Whirlpool is no longer for me, God bless you all. I know it's only a small amount that want to flame and shame. But if I cant just get help and give help, then I don't have time for it.

Romans 10:9 - Proverbs 3:4-6 , I loves you all.

You know, bitterness can make you sick in more ways the one!

Cut and paste what you want, I'll have nothing else to say.

No TV? Fair dinkum thats a bit extreme lol. Nah just kiddin, everyone is entitled to bring up their kids however they want.

Well good luck to you with your kids anyway but its usually those ones who go off the rails the hardest later on. they have much more to rebel against in their moody teenage years.

Every kid has a friend that obtains questionable and innapropriate material for them. I think you will find your eldest does plenty you don't know about, its what kids do. Even the "good" ones, oh wait, they're usually lead astray by "the wrong crowd" the poor innocent darlings.....Some parents truly can be blind to reality.

SomethingAlias writes...

Romans 10:9 - Proverbs 3:4-6 , I loves you all.

I thought that was a Jeff Fenech quote....

PROFESSORPC writes...

This blanket ban on porn is lazy, how dare anyone decide what everyone can or can't see online.

Calm down, the OP only wants his/her connection filtered not everybody's.

nm

Parental control, proper supervision and the education of children about the Internet nasties.

Put the computer/s in a "public" home place and supervise .

SomethingAlias consider what .:Ask:. suggests.

Basically its not practical to stop people getting into most computer cases. The locks are not typically unique or high quality.

If you cant effectively lock your case then anyone can open it and take out the BIOS battery for a while to reset to defaults (clear passwords) and bypass booting from CD/DVD/USB maybe even eSATA.

That allows someone to run another operating system of their choosing on your hardware to bypass blocks or monitoring.

The only way to stop this is prevent the modem/router from logging into your ISP. Im not familiar with optus cable internet but with bigpond cable there is no login details, no password, and im pretty sure no modems that don't have an Ethernet/USB port. In other words if you have Bigpond you cannot stop uncontrolled access.

If you have ADSL however you need to make sure the modem/router is not logging in by using bridge mode instead of PPPoE. Perhaps there are wireless only ADSL router/modems around which would allow you to put the block point at wireless authentication and still use PPPoE.

Bridge mode though means you can have your PC do the PPPoE authentication and its probable you can store the username:password in an encrypted format that you can be relatively sure would take an obscene amount of effort to retrieve.

That means booting from CD would only allow someone to use the computer and not the internet since it would not auto connect unless the desired OS loaded and there would be no easy way to get the password.

pepsiscrap writes...

Well good luck to you with your kids anyway but its usually those ones who go off the rails the hardest later on. they have much more to rebel against in their moody teenage years.

I have to agree, kids that are "smothered" (was trying to find a better word) in the younger/teenage years will tend to rebel in astronomical proportions, I say, education is the key, but dont just tell them the cons, they need to know th whole story.

I think maybe you are trying to overdo it with the filtering, just install one of the netalert filters as well as a program to monitor system events + programs opened + websites viewed.

then, that way you can see what they have seen, and if its inappropriate, talk to the about it and block it.

but remember, it doesnt matter how hard you try, someday they are going to get access to it.

SomethingAlias writes...

I have AJS and I find nothing, just the websites you found your information from would be enough.

Undo case, take BIOS battery out, re-insert - reconfigure BIOS to boot alternative OS ... grab modem, undo fuse (or hit an external button in some cases), re-insert - boom, factory default modem ...

Modify MBR to point boot OS elsewhere ... Use a variant of VM Ware to run alternative OSes ... Use the local PC (that is, constantly try to access a file that was probably installed by the Admin that has admin rights - services.exe, svchost.exe, csrss.exe just to name a few) to brute force an Admin password (which will probably be usable on other machines) ..

Password sniffers, brute force attacks (a PC on a local network with fileshares is a great target for a LAN brute force - the response time is great - that is, pings less then 1ms - so you can attempt 1000's of passwords per second), USB / floppy / CD booted self-contained OSes with network tools sorta like SATAN that can mask / spoof network IPs / protocols, etc ..

Thats just the basics that are available to most "script kiddies" via download ... there are other professional ways, but that would require a better working knowledge of your set-up (that your kids will obviously have!) and a steep learning curve (which most kids thrive on!) ..

Tek
PS I have clients that have had kids use something from the above mentioned methods ...