Whirlpool

Hi,

This is going to sound like a strange question but i figured there are a ton of people on here with much life experience that may be able to answer it.

Basically, i just finished first year of uni as a mature age student (23) in computer science because i thought i wanted a career as a programmer. I'm good at writing code and get pretty much what programmers do ect but i have lost my passion for it. I simply can not waste another year of my life sitting in front of a computer and feel the need to just go out, work hard and get on with it and give up my educated dreams because i cant imagine being in IT for the rest of my life.

Anyway, this leaves me in a position of hopelessness. I didn't do a trade, have had about 20 or so dead end jobs since leaving highschool and just wasted a year and all my meagre savings at uni. So now its the end of another year, don't have a cent to my name but am driven to find a high paid working class, unskilled job. Basically, i want to work 7 days a week, and save as much as possible.

Anyone know of a good industry or field to try get into to get a job. I've met some labourers making $60k+ but cant for the life of me break into anything lucritive.

Any tips or advice on my situation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks :)

Reserve writes...

i want to work 7 days a week

Don't be a fool.

Any tips or advice on my situation would be greatly appreciated.

What are your hobbies, or activities that you enjoy?

yeh I know the feeling .
Computers are cool and that but its not my lifetime passion.

Become a bricky- they get paid well .
But they are skilled to a point as well.

Having said that anything in the building industry is about to go down because of the intereset rate hikes .

Reserve writes...

irst year of uni as a mature age student (23) in computer science because

sounds like you dont know what you want to do... so we cant tell you what to do... also looks like you have a problem in sticking things out? your gona have to pick somthing and just do it, and get better at it, regardless if you have a passion for it or not, most people dont have a passion for it.... any ways,,, xmas breaks coming, so take a holiday and recharge the batteries....

get a job in IT, change your degree to a diploam and do it part time.

Reserve writes...

because i thought i wanted a career as a programmer
Oh dear.

give up my educated dreams because i cant imagine being in IT for the rest of my life.
At least you've realised the folly that is a "career" in IT - good start.

As for money, forget Uni/College. Find your way over to WA and if you can breathe, walk and talk and don't mind hard work (up in the NorthWest) you'll make a squillion.

Hitch Hike to Kalgoorlie or the north west and you can make a good living doing just about anything you like in regards to unskilled work, you do need to be prepared to work hard. Someone that is prepared to live in such an area as a resident can make a ton more than even miners doing the FIFO thing that only work/ earn while they are on site.

This is common to many people whos "wake up later" in their life road.
But you dont have to be as a peripheral of a pc for the rest of your life. Just try to migrate from the crude code writing and stick to something else at higher level, like system integration, project managing, commercial duties. They dont came tomorrow's morning, you just have to move for the first years but are pretty different from a lfetime coding-compiling-debug.

Go to the mines and drive a truck or something. +100K is easy up there.

Iwannajob writes...

At least you've realised the folly that is a "career" in IT - good start.

Do you want to back that up with... well... anything?

There is nothing wrong with a career in IT, sure it isnt for some people thats fine, no career is for everyone.

I have an absolute passion for IT both in work and at home, its also paying well, given me a secure job and my job prospects look great if I ever want to look for a new employer.

Back up your statement because from where I stand it's a pack of lies.

Back to the OP.

Head to WA and work in the mines, you will earn a buckload of money. WA has a massive minerals boom and they are paying through the roof for employees who are willing to work hard.

Hellman109 writes...

Do you want to back that up with... well... anything?


Welcome to IT/Telco, where a failed IT career is the fault of the industry ;-)

i want to work 7 days a week

Don't be a fool.

hehe, well i have a lot of lost time to make up for, thats what happens when you're a late bloomer.

What are your hobbies, or activities that you enjoy?

It was chasing what i enjoy that got me into this situation, i know i wont enjoy being a labourer but i will enjoy scheming up ways to spend the money. I've figured that no work is enjoyable unless you are truely talented at something, which i'm not so from now on, all work related decisions will be based on $$ and not fun/passion/interest ect ect

sounds like you dont know what you want to do... so we cant tell you what to do...

I'm not really looking for people to tell me what to do, i'm interested in hearing about how to get employed in a decent paying job as a late blooming, unskilled but lots of life experience monkey.

Find your way over to WA and if you can breathe, walk and talk and don't mind hard work (up in the NorthWest) you'll make a squillion.

Well i live in perth so that wont be a problem :) I've been to kalgoorlie a few times, looks pretty rough but i will consider it. The only problem with that is that there is a housing shortage there, waiting lists for rentals and rents are HIGH. So i would be earning a ton of cash for working like a dog but most of it would go on living expenses so i cant see the point. I really just want to save for a solid year or 2 doing anything and try get into the property market. I'm interested in renovations and property investing and figured that would be my career once i raise the funds but the stupid house prices have sky rocketed and i need half a million dollars just to buy a shoe box. Looks like i'm screwed either way.

Welcome to IT/Telco, where a failed IT career is the fault of the industry ;-)

I'm not blaming my failure to secure a career on the IT industry or indians, just lost interest to a point where working hard as a code monkey and earning less than a unskilled factory worker seems to be pointless.

Anyway, lots of good advice in there, i'll keep searching :)

Reserve writes...

Anyone know of a good industry or field to try get into to get a job. I've met some labourers making $60k+ but cant for the life of me break into anything lucritive.

big deal

you can work very hard as a builders labourer and make $100k a year

but how many people can actually do it? I doubt you could last one day at the work they do. I admit I can't.

the dream is to make $100k in an office - most people don't make it

Reserve writes...

i'm interested in hearing about how to get employed in a decent paying job as a late blooming, unskilled but lots of life experience monkey.

23 != lots of life experience. If 'life experience' was important, there'd be scads of otherwise sadly unemployable graduate Arts students already doing those jobs.

all work related decisions will be based on $$ and not fun/passion/interest

I can't see this sort of basis for decision making lasting long.

just lost interest to a point where working hard as a code monkey

You're only a code monkey if you think you're one. If you make less than a factory worker doing programming, then you suck at programming.

I'm interested in renovations and property investing and figured that would be my career once i raise the funds

Ahhhh ... now we're getting somewhere. Why not learn a trade eg carpentry, get helping out with renovations and edge in that way? Or you don't want to have spend time to study / learn anything new at this stage?

mate you're only 23 yr old, not too late to be sucessful
you completed 1st yr uni degree, 2 more yr and you'll be out, by then
assume you will be 25, you got about 40 yr life to work before you can retire

that's hell long mate, 40 year you can turn the world around.
you just need to have a plan, get a part time job, or try to get in
programming job for full/part time, then study part/full time depends on your time frame, you can still make quite alot of money.

alot of ppl are actually worst off than you are, many ppl realised way too late in their life, like 30ish, you don't' even have to do computing for the rest of your life, not like most ppl would, there is a shift change, you work your ass off before 40, and hopefully you become a manager after that, if not open your own shop of whatever,
it's never too late,

a simple plan for you, with a realistic goal for next 5 yr:
by 24: you been working part time, saved $100/wk , you got $5000 in the bank
put that $5000 in bank shares (why put money in bank, when you can be one of the boss of the bank, earning what they earn)
quick money: if you got $1k before june of the year, put it in your super account,
and you earn $1.5k from government, that mean you locked 2.5k in when you retired, you'll be way better off, that's 150% gain and tax free. best investment EVER!

by 25: you completed your uni degree, still save $100/wk, you got another 5k at bank, your bank share now worth 5500 (10% increase in bank share /yr is very normal thing, much better method of increase what you have than put in banks, where you have to pay 100% gain to tax). put this money in high interest bank account like ING or something, you don't want to have no money when you needed.
so now in theory you got 10k+
same as before, put 1k in super and get 1.5k from government.

by 26: you got a job in IT programming or whatever, since you graduated, you worked full time save minimum of $200/wk, you got 10k increased this money 1/2 goto shares 1/2 goto banks earn interest. you got 20k+
now that you got a full time job, get a virgin credit card or something, no annual fees, if you need to buy something like computer, use it to pay it off, and claim it back in tax, make sure you pay your credit card debt before the free period end, you need to be able to control your spending, if not, never get a CC.

by 27: with experience, pay raised, you should able to save $400/wk that's 20k, like before, divide into pool, and save it away,
if you earn over 50k now, you don't get much from government, so no point in putting money in super.
$40k+ saving, I would say minimum would be 50k by now.

28: you worked hard, you got your saving, you can now able to borrow decent amount to buy a house, with your credit rating history showing you, have good habit of saving, I would be surprise they don't' lent money to you. not only that, by now, you would earn 60k+ with your exp in IT. just make sure you get those certificate, like MCSD if you're a programmer.

even if you can't buy a house, a apartment unit is not bad, you just borrow about $200k, you can pay back with your wage easy.

this is my view anyway, and is not meant to be taken seriously, i do not responsible for any action you make or do,

Sniper writes...

mate you're only 23 yr old, not too late to be sucessful...

Good post Sniper.

Reserve writes...

all work related decisions will be based on $$ and not fun/passion/interest ect ect

You're going to have a boring, unhappy life in all likelihood, especially if you're working 7 days a week.

I'm not blaming my failure to secure a career on the IT industry

The post you quoted was me taking a shot at someone else, not you.

But anyway, a lot of the work you're considering here is not "unskilled labour". Working in mines or doing a trade has a fair bit of skill involved, to varying degrees. Those choices are fine if you are after that sort of working life and enjoy being around those sorts of places and people. Personally I already have my non-IT options mapped out in case I want to get out of the industry and none of my choices are that sort of labouring job, because it just doesn't fit me and my family.

If you're already in uni have you thought about just switching degrees? Maybe go into something like radiology, law, arts?

Dudley writes...

Maybe go into something like radiology, law,
Those options, while laudable, require much higher entry scores than IT courses (and rightly so).

T0nyGTSt writes...

the dream is to make $100k in an office - most people don't make it

That's very true in the IT world but I personally know doctors and lawyers that make in excess of $250K.

You're going to have a boring, unhappy life in all likelihood, especially if you're working 7 days a week.

I figured if i hit it hard up front and saved some cash then i would have more options in the way of property and business opurtunites. I wasn't planning on working hard like that in those positions my whole life, just a means to an end really.

The post you quoted was me taking a shot at someone else, not you

I know, i just wanted to make it clear i wasn't bagging the industry, there are plenty of oppurtunities for those that want them, but for me personally, i seem to get on better with the pirate like characters of the labour force than the intellecctual office politics that goes with using your brain to make a living. My plan was to use my body to make the cash and use my brain to do something decent with it so i dont have to keep pimping out my body :P

Those options, while laudable, require much higher entry scores than IT courses (and rightly so)

Well, i think i've got the grades to get into law ect but again, the professions dont interest me anymore. Business seems the direction i like most but rather than do a commerce degree at my age i figured i'd be better off just making some cash and learning in the real world. Google will fill in the technical details and wont cost me $20k hecs debt.

I'm going to look into those entrance to the mining industry courses and inductions ect to see if i can weasle my way in.

Sniper writes...

mate you're only 23 yr old, not too late to be sucessful
you completed 1st yr uni degree, 2 more yr and you'll be out, by then
assume you will be 25, you got about 40 yr life to work before you can retire

True! Even Benedict XVI was elected Pope at the age of 78. So I guess for 23-25 years old we have a lot of time! hell alot!

Does it feel like its going hell fast though? It feels like yesterday i was 16 and in 7 years i'll be 30. Its all starting to freak me out :P

carpe diem .

A few potted comments...

There are IT jobs that you can get into that don't involve just code cutting. The "analyst" side of analyst/programmer can be pretty interesting. Or BA, usability analyst, project office, etc. You could also head into the public sector or the consulting industry as a general-entry graduate (i.e. not specifically aiming at IT roles).

Alternatively if you are interested in property/investment, you could try working in building (as others have mentioned) or real estate. If you're willing to consider other investment asset classes (besides property), you could try moving into an investment bank, maybe start in IT, do some Securities Institute study while you work and then move sideways into a non-IT position.

Also remember that you don't have to have just one career in a lifetime. Currently the average is four (which means some have more!). You could work in IT for a few years and then move elsewhere when you have more life experience. I've been in IT for nearly fifteen years and still enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I'll stay in IT for life.

Working seven days a week is a BAD idea. Physically and mentally we need a break to recharge regularly.

Reserve writes...

Anyone know of a good industry or field to try get into to get a job. I've met some labourers making $60k+ but cant for the life of me break into anything lucritive.

PèéJäy writes...

REPLYING TO
PèéJäy... Go to the mines and drive a truck or something. +100K is easy up there

My mate's nephew is in WA earning 90K driving B doubles. He can get 130K at kalgoorlie but he's not a dummy and knows it's tough up there, so therefore not keen.

Still you put in 10 years there. - you're made.

Another vote for working the mines up north. My next door neighbour recently got a job driving one of the trucks up there and his missus is working in the cafeteria.

Between the two of them they are raking in $150k. Plan to stay up there for about 5 years or so, make a packet and then move back down to Perth and do whatever with no pressure.

Good luck with your decision m8.

Thanks to the resources boom, it IS possible to earn 6 figures without having to go through the whole Uni process.

23 is very close to being past it to get into IT (if you're not in IT by the time you're 25, forget about IT full stop), yet it's a good age to land a job in the mines. If I wasn't tied down where I am now, I'd probably head west and get a job driving big-arsed trucks for $100k a year as it pays well and looks like fun.

Tone. writes...

23 is very close to being past it to get into IT (if you're not in IT by the time you're 25, forget about IT full stop),

What a ridiculous statement.

noHUP writes...

Still you put in 10 years there. - you're made.

You're made... what? You don't have work any more or something?

Tone. writes...

23 is very close to being past it to get into IT (if you're not in IT by the time you're 25, forget about IT full stop)

Load of crap.

Tone. writes...

Thanks to the resources boom, it IS possible to earn 6 figures without having to go through the whole Uni process.

Sure. And what happens when the resources boom is over?

If you want a job as brickies labourer or working down the mines that's fine. Just keep in mind that 60k or 100k you earn at 23 will still be the same at 43, assuming your back doesn't give out on you. And that also assumes you keep your job through the downturn.

I actually find the title of this thread offensive. Many of those "unskilled monkeys" are doing dirty, demanding, difficult and often dangerous jobs. The whingey, whiney, lilywhite keyboard warriors in these forums would last about three minutes on building site, factory or mine.

Dudley writes...

You're made... what? You don't have work any more or something?

10 years @ $100k - enough to buy your house / car / whatever so if you want to take a casual job pushing trolleys just to pay the bills you can afford to.

no easy answers here, and i think allot of people at some point in life will go through this.

I was in IT, left 2 yrs ago.... in a way best thing i have done. evryman and his dog is in IT either seriiously, or by default i think the industry is flooded now.

when i was at uni, wanted to be a Software Engineer, was told yeah its the way to make good $$$, then I spoke to some of these guys, and was told unless your the best, don;t do it, as they rotate the grads each year. (I have not idea if this is true) but took it at face value. swapped major. as i was ok, and all but also could see where my limitations were.

in fact I have actually done what you are contimplating, the first year i left i worked 2 jobs for almost a year straight, and made more money in my hand, than in IT and taxed. without the 1)politics, (2) stress , (2a) bulssh1t ;)

perhaps try and keep your options open, by doing one and trying another (life is about opportunities - the more you have the better it is in the long run)

that is maybe a p/t IT job, and a p/t sh1t kicker...

the best thing you can actually do, is be true to yourself (sorry end of my zen), and its good you have asked others, bottom line you have to do what you think is right and will make you happy, from what I have seen most tradie's are laughing and happy, if you have any peer's in that field , ask them what they think, and if they can help you get your foot in.. and give it a go for 6 months maybe a TA...

PèéJäy writes...

Go to the mines and drive a truck or something. +100K is easy up there.

It all relative , working in darwin for 12 months even with a $10k more in wages ive saved almost nothing extra than when living in melbourne at own home.

yep there are high wages, but much much higher living costs

Unskilled labour... head off to the mines - e.g. www.barminco.com.au

Prepared to do a TAFE course to become a qualified electrician? Only takes a year probably, if you can make your way around the inside of your computer it will be easy. Plus lots of sparky's on sites are expected to do PLC work which requires basic logic programming. Easy stuff for you.
www.tafensw.edu.au/howex...No=2387#get_2433

THEN head off to the mines... and make DOUBLE (elec's in high demand there)

Lloydo writes...

Prepared to do a TAFE course to become a qualified electrician? Only takes a year probably, if you can make your way around the inside of your computer it will be easy.

yeah sounds easy but impossible a cert3 to be a sparkie is a 4 year apprenticeship, i did make inquires when with a cert4 in renewable power systems and a diploma in electronics i still need to do a 4 year apprenticeship, there is talk of making it a 2 year full time post secondary school with field work

Iwannajob writes...

That's very true in the IT world but I personally know doctors and lawyers that make in excess of $250K

I know mid-level IT persons who are on six figures, and lawyers who are nowhere near it. What does that tell us? That all industries have successful and unsuccessful people, and for the most part can be what you make them.

Ender writes...

I know mid-level IT persons who are on six figures

I was drinking beers with a few last night.

One is an ITIL expert with a major outsourcing company. He started earning bugger all as a tape ape after dropping out of a uni arts degree. Another was unemployed for two years after finishing her degree, she is now a senior manager with a multinational company.

They had to work hard and do some pretty ordinary, boring and poorly paid jobs before reaching the positions they now hold.

The simple fact is there are few fields where a 23 year old is going to walk into a 100k a year job. The vast majority of lucrative jobs require a combination of hard study, hard work and long training periods on crappy money (such as being a lawyer, doctor or tradesman).

Some kids need a reality check. Perhaps two years in a mine or a construction site might be good for many of them.

Torytroll writes...

Some kids need a reality check. Perhaps two years in a mine or a construction site might be good for many of them.

Heh - agreed. I only appreciate this now having been through it (the unrealistic expectations of ones early 20's, not time in a mine or building site).

I have six years of (FTE) tertiary education and a few years of solid work experience now, and I still haven't cracked $100k. Nowhere near it.

I'd probably get close to it in the private sector, but as you say the going rate even for someone fairly well qualified with a few real-world runs on the board isn't six figures - not this side of 30.

Ender writes...

I'd probably get close to it in the private sector, but as you say the going rate even for someone fairly well qualified with a few real-world runs on the board isn't six figures - not this side of 30.

There's a real cycle to earnings. You see this among any group of people who went to school together. I reckon you can split them into four general groups.

1. The early leavers. These are the people who leave school and get unskilled work. They earn good money compared to other 16 year olds, but their earning power peaks at 18 or 19.

2. The tradies. They leave at 15 or 16 as well and do an apprenticeship. Their money is abysmal until they finish their trade. Their earning power peaks at around 30 and some make a lot of money.

3. The drifters. These are like the early leavers except they stay on at school, do okay in their HSC and might or might not drift off to uni. These people become what I class "white collar unskilled labour" these are the people most at risk from globalisation and Honest John's labour "reforms". Their earning power peaks in their forties but they never really match the tradies in income.

4. The graduates. They earn bloody awful money until into their thirties. Many (like the OP) complain they may well as left school at 15 like group 1.

Sometime in their mid-30s they find they are earning more money than anyone else. By their mid-40s they are way ahead of the pack. This is true of most professions.

Now I know there are exceptions and posters will cite the bloke that left school at 14 and became a mobile phone billionaire or something. But those people are the exception.

My point is that no-one should make career choices based on what someone else earns. Do what interests you and what you are good at.

Torytroll writes...

My point is that no-one should make career choices based on what someone else earns. Do what interests you and what you are good at.

This is true but you might also just want money. You have to weigh up your priorities. I wanted money so I stopped aiming for what I really wanted to do in life (which would have been expensive and extremely difficult to get into at the level I wanted) and began a career in Mining/Construction. I earn over 110k/year working away from home and that is for a first job. It only increases from here. It is not labouring, it is an office role which will take me overseas should I choose to go after a couple of years experience. I chose wisely as I know the benefits of the job and that unskilled labour is worthless when the work dries up. Having said that, I know a number of people in their mid 30's (semi skilled) who are now able to semi retire should they choose to after working in the mining/construction industry for 10 - 15 odd years.

Being on good money, you must have goals otherwise you will spend it all or pi** it up like more than half of those I meet on site.

Iwannajob writes...

That's very true in the IT world but I personally know doctors and lawyers that make in excess of $250K.

What's your point? I know lots of people in management who make more than twice that. Quick, everybody become managers!

Thanks again guys, great advice.

Well, i have decided to drop out of uni and seek work in the mines. If i have to go to tafe first or get some tickets or whatever i'll spend 3-6 months getting whatever is needed. So i guess now i am after more practical advice on which tickets or training to do to fast track entry into this area.

As for the people telling me to stay in IT, i do see your points, however, even if some guy offered me a $45k job in IT i still wouldn't like to do it because i really need to get away from my computer. Its just not doing it for me anymore.

As for the advice on what happens to the unskilled labour after the boom, to me, that is when i should go to uni or retrain or whatever. I dont see the point of keeping on with my degree during the boom and when the boom ends, i can always finish my degree then or get into some other field because like that guy said, 4 careers in a lifetime seems to be quite normal.

So yeah, I'll spend the summer working out, trying to regain my atrophied muscles from my year behind a computer and will research jobs in the industry. I dont have any contacts in this area so i can see that it is going to be a tough nut to crack. So if anyone knows a good place to start, that would be appreciated. I am willing to jump on a bus off to some remote work camp and do it tough, i'm just having trouble seeking this type of thing out.

Thanks again

Reserve writes...

even if some guy offered me a $45k job in IT i still wouldn't like to do it

I understand your position that no matter how much money you are offered you wouldn't stay in a job you don't like. What I don't understand is how you made the decision to move on to a job you think will pay lots of money without knowing whether you will like the job.

I'm starting to think you should spend join the ADF instead.

Reserve writes...

Well i live in perth so that wont be a problem :) I've been to kalgoorlie a few times, looks pretty rough but i will consider it. The only problem with that is that there is a housing shortage there, waiting lists for rentals and rents are HIGH.

Most of the mines offer fly in fly out so you dont need to live up there.

The way this thread has headed is almost comical.

First you're here asking for ideas on what kind of job to go to. Some people reply that working in the mines up in the desert will get you $100,000 a year no problems. And your immediate response is 'Well, i have decided to drop out of uni and seek work in the mines.'

As Dudley says, go find out more about mining/construction BEFORE making your decision. You might not find that you're suited to 'working in the mines' and in fact you know very little about what working in the mines is.

It's absolutely hilarious that after a few comments from unknown Internet people that you'd make some life changing decisions. I think it really shows that you're lacking direction in life, and drift towards whatever seems like a good idea at the time. You'd be an easy target for MLM promoters, door to door salesmen or even Nigerian scammers.

By the way, I'll give you a milion bucks if you deposit your life savings into my bank account. You first, though. :)

Iwannajob writes...

Oh great advice! Yeah, join the ADF and get your b*lls shot off in some godforesaken sh!t hole.

The OP wants to earn lots of money. There are plenty of opportunities to do so in the ADF without putting yourself anywhere near the bullets of any of the world's current conflicts.

Furthermore the ADF offers a broad selection of careers and skills training, many of which incorporate a degree, which may be of interest to the OP. The ADF also offers excellent travel opportunities to interesting places, which may also be of interest to the OP.

And after meeting your commitments to the ADF you are able to enter the private sector and work in many lucrative roles in a variety of industries.

If you join the ADF as a young, unskilled guy/girl then YOU WILL see combat.

Dudley writes...

And after meeting your commitments to the ADF

Great. I wonder what jobs are available to limbless veterans?

danielpenna writes...

Where are you pulling your information from?
From reliable ex-services friends.

Are you like making it up as you go along?
No.

And whats the go with the insult at the end there?
It was warranted.

Iwannajob writes...

From reliable ex-services friends.

Really, then they should have first hand knowledge about how diverse jobs are and the varying level of GYBSO (Getting Your Balls Shot Off) there is in different jobs.

Set realistic goals.

The way this thread has headed is almost comical.

First you're here asking for ideas on what kind of job to go to. Some people reply that working in the mines up in the desert will get you $100,000 a year no problems. And your immediate response is 'Well, i have decided to drop out of uni and seek work in the mines.'

As Dudley says, go find out more about mining/construction BEFORE making your decision. You might not find that you're suited to 'working in the mines' and in fact you know very little about what working in the mines is.

It's absolutely hilarious that after a few comments from unknown Internet people that you'd make some life changing decisions. I think it really shows that you're lacking direction in life, and drift towards whatever seems like a good idea at the time. You'd be an easy target for MLM promoters, door to door salesmen or even Nigerian scammers.

By the way, I'll give you a milion bucks if you deposit your life savings into my bank account. You first, though. :)

I completely disagree. For a start, i was already considering mining long before i started this thread and have already done long hours in manual labour jobs and understand the meaning of hard work. It aint fun but the moneys good and its better than my current computer life that i am not enjoying or prospering in. As for it being comical, i have already had 2 job offers via pm on this thread so i think it has served its purpose. And for your advice on trying it first then decide, duh, i'm not retarded. I have 3 months off before uni starts back so i dont have to officially drop out but i will definately be dropping out of the IT industry because i dont like it. I mean, some people..

And for the people taking this into the ADF route, my screen name is "Reserve" and started a thread about joining the reserves about a week ago so i have considered this also. What is comical about a young guy, disillusioned with the IT industry seeking an honest, hard working lifestyle with decent pay? As i have already mentioned, i didnt do a trade, didnt finish my degree and am smart enough to learn anything i put my mind to and realise that australia is in boom time and there are oppurtuinities out there. Sheesh..

End of rant

Reserve writes...

And for the people taking this into the ADF route, my screen name is "Reserve" and started a thread about joining the reserves about a week ago so i have considered this also

Have you thought about doing both? Finish off joining the reserves. This will show some form of determination on your CV. Also, if you get into Transport Corps, this will get you further driving qualifications... (Not to mention fitness, living/working in close quarters with a large group of others etc etc)

Use that as leverage to get into the mines - When / IF things go bust, you have a backup part time job to fall back on - Also, the tax free pay will not affect any 'other payments' you may get if you go back to uni. So you can still be paid and do uni at the same time.

Working the mines and the lifestyle that goes with it is hard - I'd have to recommend the reserves as a step in this transition anyway...

(As a side note and a reminder... If you do get into the reserves, and volunteer for Active reservist, you will get a $10,000 tax free lump sum payment at the end of 2 years, regardless if you actually get deployed anywhere... If you do get deployed, you can expect anywhere from $60 - $80k for 6 months work as a base level *whatever occupation you choose*. That is for everyone, not just those on the front line in war zones)

Anyway - A few more things for you to think about...

--
Ben

Thanks for that Ben, I am definately considering it.

Get a job at Woolworths packing shelves(might sound lame, full time pay is around $34k), within 2yrs you can be a manager and making over $50k.

edit

barney writes...

What a ridiculous statement.

It's true, though. That's one of the reasons why I gave up trying to go into IT - I left it a bit too late before I got serious. And this was when I was 23 ...

Torytroll writes...

Sure. And what happens when the resources boom is over?

Something about 'making hay while the sun shines' springs to mind.

Assuming the OP gets 5 years out of the mining industry, pulls down $100k/p.a. (c. $70k after tax) and saves most of this money rather than pissing it away, he could build up enough of a nest egg to take a couple of years off work and skill himself up for a position that he REALLY wants at the end of it (say 28-29 y.o.).

Of course, by the time he's nearly 30, IT will be totally out of the question ... but there are many other careers he could go after.

Tone. writes...

It's true, though. That's one of the reasons why I gave up trying to go into IT - I left it a bit too late before I got serious. And this was when I was 23 ...

True for who, you? Gross generalisation. That's why it's a ridiculous statement. You're never too old for anything (except professional sport).

EDIT: Just saw the post above this....It sounds like you couldn't cut the mustard for IT, so it's "totally out of the question" for everyone else as well. Two of the consultants I work with were "late starters" in IT, ie they didn't start it straight from school, and they are doing *extremely* well for themselves. Far better than they could ever get paid driving dump trucks like you're advocating. So what industry are you in now that you couldn't cut it in IT?

I'm thinking when I come up a bit in IT I'm going to switch to parttime and be a gym instructor parttime as well. The pay wouldnt be too bad plus your constantly getting to meet women :P

Tone. writes...

Assuming the OP gets 5 years out of the mining industry, pulls down $100k/p.a. (c. $70k after tax) and saves most of this money rather than pissing it away, he could build up enough of a nest egg to take a couple of years off work and skill himself up for a position that he REALLY wants at the end of it (say 28-29 y.o.)

Maybe. However you're assuming the boom times last five years. One of the reasons I got out of Engineering was that I was stuck in contracting positions. This meant in any ten year period I could expect three years of big money, four years of ordinary money and three years driving cabs.

Being unskilled or semi-skilled in a cyclical sector is great during an upswing but not good news when the bubble bursts.

You also assume the OP can save his cash. That's a big ask for a feckless twenty-three year od.

Of course, by the time he's nearly 30, IT will be totally out of the question ... but there are many other careers he could go after.

Bollocks. I was over 30 when I went into IT.

Reserve writes...

Well i live in perth

Well there's your answer... Get a copy of saturday's west, seen how many truck driving jobs there are.? It will cost $300-$400 to get your MR or HR license. You'll make $300-$400 back in your first day or two of driving.

Ring up the bus companies. If you've go the right attitude, they'll pay for your to get your HR license!

Look around. This is Perth and if you can breath you can get a job.

I keep seeing things about a huge skills shortage in northern Queensland. People in the hotel & tourism industry. They are after people from Chef's to people that just do simple cleaning and room maintenance. They are paying really good money also. Every time I think about it, I get tempted to just leave my IT job to go live on the sunny beaches of a resort island. Id get paid about twice as much with half the responsibility and stress also.

duke writes...

Every time I think about it, I get tempted to just leave my IT job to go live on the sunny beaches of a resort island. Id get paid about twice as much with half the responsibility and stress also.

yeah IT really are looser in the skills/pay stakes, a tradie gets a whole lot more, not to mention any vocational skill at present pay more too

Reserve writes...

As i have already mentioned, i didnt do a trade, didnt finish my degree and am smart enough to learn anything i put my mind to and realise that australia is in boom time and there are oppurtuinities out there. Sheesh..


Dont listen to the oldies criticism. You're never too old to do anything and should never regret the choices you make. I have made many different career choices and the resources one was the best one. I love earning $2500 for 1 weeks work. When it ends for those unskilled labourers, if they have enough guts and determination, they will go out, work hard again to make themselves employable and just keep on working.

Iwannajob writes...

If you join the ADF as a young, unskilled guy/girl then YOU WILL see combat.

Gee I have to say something here, but joining as "unskilled" there are far more choices available to someone than just a grunt in the Army, and there is always the RAAF and RAN....I fail to see how you can be totally convinced that everyone that joins the ADF unskilled (considering most recruits are unskilled when they join) is going to see combat, besides it was just throw in as another option for the OP to consider, not start a Political debate AGAIN lol

Reliable information you say? Well thats the biggest load of crap I have ever heard about the ADF!! LOL

Great. I wonder what jobs are available to limbless veterans?

Er stop comparing the Australian Defence Force to the US Army/Marines etc considering we have 'Returned Servicemen/Women' not 'veterans' and we have not had anyone shot up as yet and come home 'limbless'....or was that from another reliable source?

I have quite a few mates that have been overseas lately and that statement couldnt be further from the truth when referring to the Australian Defence Force.

Get your facts straight before you go degrading the role of the ADF, and besides this has already been beaten to death on another thread.

As for the OP I would say do what you want to do whether its for money or fun. Not everyone will ever agree with you (espcially in Whirlpool), but dont write yourself off at 23...sheesh I am 30 and consider that I still have plenty to offer my particular field (considering most people dont get to management in aircraft maintenance until they are in their late 40's to 50's) and never think you have plenty of life experience, the only people that have got plenty of life experience are dead people. No one has plenty of life experience, people learn new things everyday!
Good luck in the Mining Industry, and good luck in life.

I've considered a trade also, my two younger brothers are completing their carpentry trades, I've done business management qualifications which I enjoyed, I've got IT quals but find that while I enjoy working with a lot of the people I am with, I'm not really liking the IT life..

I'm on sub 40k pay, I'm 23, had a bad run with it jobs.. two companies sold and made redundant etc.. so everytime I seem to work my way up it falls out underneath me.. I've done labouring jobs before, I know I can work hard, and have contemplated doing a mature age apprenticeship in electrician/plumbing/brickie to compliment my two brothers skills.. wouldnt mind starting our own building company a few years down the road if i do go this way.

I know I'm only young, and it takes time to work up, but now im in IT in an agricultural industry co, that is being hit hard by drought.. some people have been laid off already.

Has anyone done adult apprenticeships.. and what is starting pay like? I'd definately do it if I can at least equal my money now(financial commitments)

Dirty John Flint writes...

I'm on sub 40k pay, I'm 23, had a bad run with it jobs.. two companies sold and made redundant etc..

now im in IT in an agricultural industry co, that is being hit hard by drought.. some people have been laid off already.

If you want to give IT another shot you might find a bit more stability if you try to get a job with either:

- a large IT company, eg an outsourcer
- state govt (jobs.qld.gov.au)

The outsourcers I've worked for are screaming for talent at the moment, and govt has been generally pretty stable for as long as I can remember.

Thats only if you want to give it another go mind you.

I am electrician, I'm on over 100K and not working in the mines. If you want big money you don't need to go to remote places to earn it. I live and work in Melbourne and its no different to living in WA.

I was in a similar position only i was only 18 however thought id go into IT but never got the grades and really didn't like it. My parents pushed me into a trade and I never looked back, I was a kid who'd never used an electric drill in my life. My computer background though has always helped me along and often helped me when going for jobs.

The fact your 23 makes it harder to get into a trade but not impossible my advice is do a pre-apprenticeship its a 6 months course and of those who finish 99% get jobs its the basics of the industry. Ull be an Adult apprentice which means you make more then basic industry apprentices. people think its impossible to get an appenticeship as an adult apprentice the fact is that on union sites which is where you want to be for every 20 apprentices their must be at least 1 adult. So alot of companies are forced to hire them.

In my time as an electrician i've probably had maybe 20 or so apprentices working for me at any one time and i've come across about 4 males and 2 female adult apprentices.

Their is a lot of good benefits to the job its a good secure industry and you will never be out of work. It's challenging and no any dummy of the street can do it. Plus we don't really work that hard and have a lot of days off. (thanks to the ETU). and if you want to renovate u meet a lot of tradies who can do cashies for you.

something to think about anyways.

octain writes...

and if you want to renovate u meet a lot of tradies who can do cashies for you.

hehe , your meant to keep that one off the books AND off the net :)

octain writes...

Their is a lot of good benefits to the job its a good secure industry and you will never be out of work. It's challenging and no any dummy of the street can do it.

i was in a class of sparkies, doing a post trade course in tafe, being from a telecomms background and working on large DC power, i found some of the sparkies in class many did not know how to work out fault currents for fuse ratings.

im suprised a sparkie is only a cert3 qualification and most ppls in telecomms have a assiciated diploma, and say we arnt qualified to work on anything greater than 60v rms and 110v dc

it was interesting me helping out a couple of saprkies in class : -)

octain writes...

I am electrician, I'm on over 100K and not working in the mines.

OK , so you work for yourself obviously? What i want to know is how all you tradies build your business? is it all word of mouth and referrals from other guys ? or do you generate all the work yourself?

octain writes...

The fact your 23 makes it harder to get into a trade but not impossible my advice is do a pre-apprenticeship its a 6 months course and of those who finish 99% get jobs its the basics of the industry. Ull be an Adult apprentice which means you make more then basic industry apprentices. people think its impossible to get an appenticeship as an adult apprentice the fact is that on union sites which is where you want to be for every 20 apprentices their must be at least 1 adult. So alot of companies are forced to hire them.

Thanks for your input, my only issue to do the 6 mth course I'm not sure I can afford to do that, unless I can get a decent part time job at the same time while studying. Maybe graveyard at a servo?

I'm tendering my options, to see how this IT job pans out, if things dont turn out tradewise or here, I'm planning on heading to the UK in a couple of years instead to do some IT work and weekend travel :) Up in the air, but just working out what is best long term. I do appreciate opinions and advice though.

Their is a lot of good benefits to the job its a good secure industry and you will never be out of work. It's challenging and no any dummy of the street can do it. Plus we don't really work that hard and have a lot of days off. (thanks to the ETU). and if you want to renovate u meet a lot of tradies who can do cashies for you.

I have noticed electricians and plumbers are much more in demand than other labourers, I thought that one of these would be handy as I have two brothers who are builders. Partially I wanted to become a labourer as I'm sick of sitting on my butt all day getting pudgy in a job I'm not enjoying much.

I have mates in building, brickies, boilermaking, mechanics, IT, airconditioning etc, so that would compliment the skill shortage in my massive extended network.. :)

3rdoptic writes...

OK , so you work for yourself obviously?

I don't work for myself, I work for a company a large one with a few hundred electricians on the books. Working for myself i wouldn't make the money im making now, and its alot more work.

What i want to know is how all you tradies build your business? is it all word of mouth and referrals from other guys ? or do you generate all the work yourself?

Getting the work is easy half the people as soon as they find out your an electrician their first reaction is i got a few jobs i need done around my place when can you do them. I do some but most i turn away because i can't be stuffed. With the big contracts it not what you know but who you know.

The only reason small contractors work for themselves is so they can get a few guys, get a manager and take 60k a year out of the business and no actually have to do any work. Even then its alot of work to get to that position. In saying that thought there are still some smart ones who work their asses off on their own and make millions. I got no idea how they do it though.

Thanks for your input, my only issue to do the 6 mth course I'm not sure I can afford to do that

most of the apprentice i know who did it got some soft of study allowance from the government not sure how it works though.

get your scaffolders ticket...

Thanks all, you have been a great help.

There i was stuck in my little IT rut thinking i had run out of options now it seems i have too many options :) I Think it will do me the world of good to get away from my computer for a while and do something a bit more real for a change.

I have thought long and hard and have decided I want to get into the truck driving field. So here is my plan to get into the mines driving one of those big ass machines :)

Ok, i am about to call the army reseves recruit center and am trying to get into the driving job for the reserves. This should toughen me up for the mines and give me experience behing the wheel of big truck. After training is over, i should have a grand in the bank which i'll spend on a HR license and driving lessons and do a couple of tickets. Once i've got my license and army reserve driving on my resume i can apply for those big buck driving jobs in the mines or even a non mine transport company.

Does that sound realistic? I just watched the videos on the army reserves recruit site and am looking forward to it so i hope i get in.

Thanks again for the advice :)

duke writes...

I keep seeing things about a huge skills shortage in northern Queensland. People in the hotel & tourism industry. They are after people from Chef's to people that just do simple cleaning and room maintenance. They are paying really good money also.

Got a link?

I might be nearly a life-crisis sometime soon. I could do that for a year or two ;-)

i was in a class of sparkies, doing a post trade course in tafe, being from a telecomms background and working on large DC power, i found some of the sparkies in class many did not know how to work out fault currents for fuse ratings.

we seldom use it, id need a book to work it out. with fault loop we have rules of thumb which cover all applications on houses i normally use a 4ka circuit breaker and on commercial industrial normally use 8 or 10ka's anything more then that is unusal and would be specified by the engineer.

Ull find those guys would have had to know it to get through their lea course (the course we do at the end of our apprenticeship which has a 70% fail rate) it's likely just forgot it because they haven't used it in years. working on 240 ain't much about that its more about earthing and men. and comms do earth as well but its alot different. For usit more about the 4 years on the tools. thats covers must stuff u need to know. the theory behind 240 is base work the practical is a whole new ball game.

Working at a mine for just a year will get some great dollars which you can then use to do some courses you would be interested in!

Reserve writes...

I have thought long and hard and have decided I want to get into the truck driving field. So here is my plan to get into the mines driving one of those big ass machines :)

Good on you mate. I wish you all the best!

I was going to say 'I wish you the best of luck', but you won't need it, you'll do fine.

Does that sound realistic? I just watched the videos on the army reserves recruit site and am looking forward to it so i hope i get in.

You'll have absolutely no problems making it into the reserves. With the determination and drive you're displaying, you'll have no problems.

Do you have to go the reserve route in order to get a truck drives license?

to the OP
im 23 too mate and IT is as exciting as a dogs breakfast.

there seems to be allot of posts about "i hate IT" lately I've made a few myself.
and after a recent change to my lifestyle I've decided its not IT i hate its the "office" work place, its terrible.

i work two jobs now i work nights as a bar worker and i LOVE it, it has been the solution to my miserable life.
during the day im a boring IT guy, in an office and nights i work in a fun action packed exciting bar with tonnes of people my age.
we crack jokes, sing songs get drunk after work and i generally have an awesome time, im working 70 hour weeks and bringing in around $1500 (paying $450 tax :( ) and i have absolutely no life outside work but its AWESOME.

do what i did, that way you still get the money you want and the crazy long hours but you don't waste that degree that you spent so much money on.

P. Burgess writes...

Got a link?

I might be nearly a life-crisis sometime soon. I could do that for a year or two ;-)

There were two stories on ACA from memory. I saw one which got me searching on the net. I can only find a short article from the ACA site at this stage.
It doesn't really say much but its a start.
aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=149548

Check out the hamilton island website. That has some good info on it. All the links are on the ACA site.

duke writes...

Check out the hamilton island website. That has some good info on it. All the links are on the ACA site.

Yeah, I saw that article. They were crying out for people to work on Hamilton Island.

Beats me why no-one want to work there - one of the most beautiful places I've been to!

doing what on hamilton island?

edit.. found it..

www.hamiltonisland.com.a...=article&ID=3960

Hmm I speak German and French.. well If I get my trade.. then I know where to work :)

Think it was mainly bar work.
I suppose you would be pretty isolated and I know everything is a little more expensive but WOW what a location!

After your shift you could just walk 20 m and jump in an awesome beach.

Edit: just looked at your link - more jobs than I thought!

Torytroll writes...

Bollocks. I was over 30 when I went into IT.

That was when ... the mid 1980s? These days, it seems as though IT employers want 20 year olds with a degree in Comp Sci + 10 years experience.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, got so pissed off with the rejections I ended up accepting my fate as being stuck in finance forever more. :|

As an aside, when was the last time YOU employed someone who was 30 and just starting out in IT, Tory?

Tone. writes...

, it seems as though IT employers want 20 year olds with a degree in Comp Sci + 10 ye

not really, they just want someone that can do the job more then anything....

also, these things help, but you can get your foot in the door many ways... but you gona be able to back it up, once you have it.

Tone. writes...

As an aside, when was the last time YOU employed someone who was 30 and just starting out in IT, Tory?

Employed a 52-year old bloke as a tech last month. He's a muso by trade and he's turned out to be very good.

I do agree with you generally though. The skills shortage which is now starting to affect us is all our own fault. In our defence, it's not just the IT industry that's neglected it's responsibility to train and employ people.

it sounds like the OP has made his plan, however i thought i might mention another idea for those lurkers that have similar questions :)

teaching english overseas.

you can earn up to AU$30k a year.

not that much right? however there are the perks...

-you work maybe 25-30hrs a week absolute max
-you meet some very outgoing and friendly people from across the world
-you party pretty much every night of the week, eat out every night of the week
-you set yourself up in a non-tourist city and you pay non-tourist prices, you can save 70-80% of your wage even while partying

its probably much more suitable for people who have trouble saving or sacrificing the 'good life', the cost of living is much more forgiving, but you wont make as much as a manual labour job.

the idea is to make the money in the foreign country, spend as little as possible while having a fun time, send the rest to your home country into a managed share fund or high interest account etc.

Vusak writes...

teaching english overseas.

please enlighten us to what country this actually is . Is it safe ?? :)

3rdoptic writes...

please enlighten us to what country this actually

Japan and Korea. I've thought about doing it myself, but mortgage and marriage came along too quickly :)

PS: A degree is usually a requirement for this. Friend of mine did it for several years.

Ender writes...

Japan and Korea.

North Korea is hardly safe !! :) I agree though, its a bit of a seachange but if you go for it , it would be a whole other world compared to IT / office / ZzzzZZz z

Shift work in a Dairy Farmers Milk depot pays pretty awesomely. It is a shit job, but you get shift allowance, cool room allowance, nice OT pay, etc etc...can get paid pretty well for dooing little more than shifting milk and loading milk trucks.

MigA writes...

your gona have to pick somthing and just do it, and get better at it, regardless if you have a passion for it or not, most people dont have a passion for it

nobody loves there job that much. how can you when your doing the same thing day in day out, its human nature to get bord of repeative tasks

23 aahh seems like yesterday,

Well this is my brief story I'm 33 got lots of "life exp" worked in customer sercive and retail type jobs for about 15 years or so approx half with the same employer (8 years). I have no "skills" to speak of and I still dont know what I want to do. I think I would like to get into IT, because at the very least I have always enjoyed fidling around with PC's and associated tech.
The point is do a trade or dont do a degree or dont. Or better still spend however much time it takes, soul searching, counselling, whatever to find out what you a good at or what your personality/temparament will enjoy. Also watch out for debt as that can be a real prob if you decide you dont like you current job or situation.

Good Luck

doomadgee writes...

Also watch out for debt as that can be a real prob if you decide you dont like you current job or situation.

be hell dodgey and search for new job while at work

Dudley writes...

noHUP writes...

Still you put in 10 years there. - you're made.

You're made... what? You don't have work any more or something?

Depends on what lifestyle you want. if you're aiming to be the next Trump then you might want to keep working. But If you want to be comfortable and retire in Tahiti then yeah - you're done, finished, out, you've won etc.

After doing 10 years at $100K pa and banking half a mil* , I'm sure most people could live on 50K earned from an easily obtainable 10% pa on that but the guy I mentioned knows he can get 130K and you can do better than 10%.

Thing is those are 10 very tough years. No one should kid themselves.

*and you'd have to live on like $19K per year.

Reserve writes...

Anyone know of a good industry or field to try get into to get a job

Chech out www.seek.com.au/users/ap...=1&JobID=8152297

the_junction_box writes...

Chech out www.seek.com.au/users/ap...=1&JobID=8152297 "

nothing happens, well yes something happens this

"Warning - your session on SEEK has expired and the page you have requested is no longer available. Please return to the SEEK homepage to restart your session."

Reserve writes...

Does that sound realistic?

Not to me.
The drivers are normally at the higher end of the pay scale so the jobs are sought after.
You would be more likely to get a gig on a rock breaker or general kicker then walk straight into a truck driver job.

the_junction_box writes...

Chech out www.seek.com.au/users/ap...=1&JobID=8152297

The correct way to post a link to a Seek job ad is to just have the job id in the URL, ie: http://www.seek.com.au/users/apply/i­ ndex.ascx?JobID=8152297 otherwise it complains about sessions and/or cookies.

Don't worry about army and stuff like that if you want a job, just go get one.

TNT are crying out for drivers in Perth, give them a call or go visit... If you can spell your name, they'll give you a job... if you can't spell your name, they'll help you.

Once you've saved up some cash, get your truck license and get paid more... boring work, but easy money.

Do drivers really earn as much as everyone says? From what I can see the award rates for truck drivers isn't that impressive at all.

Award rates for long haul truck driving: $28,402 - $32,828/year.

Award rates for distribution drivers, such as local TNT couriers suggested by the above poster: $28,402 - $31,326/year.

Neither of these rates is exactly high-paid, even compared to low paying entry-level IT jobs they aren't great.

wombling_wombat writes...

Do drivers really earn as much as everyone says?

Is IT really as good/bad as any given person says?

There is no guaranteed "Do job X, earn $YYY" easy road.

I just failed my science degree this year, I found it some of it interesting but I just couldn't be bothered focusing as I really want to go out and work.

I'm v v good with computers and I've considered just quitting uni all together (the fees are tooo high tbh and the time is too long), I could just take an MCSD.

But my Wife (a recruiter) says I should stick with it and get a degree as i'll have problems getting a job otherwise.

So i'm just going to do a computer science course next year.

Dudley writes...

Is IT really as good/bad as any given person says?

There is no guaranteed "Do job X, earn $YYY" easy road.

Yes, but they're jobs which give a better return/future prospects for your input.

If 'IT' were a investment account, it’d be high risk, and piss-weak return.

Dudley writes...

Is IT really as good/bad as any given person says?

There is no guaranteed "Do job X, earn $YYY" easy road.

That's what I'm thinking too. Everyone in this thread keeps repeating how much truck drivers make but looking at award rates I find it hard to believe. I know one guy who's a bus driver and he gets $28k + overtime. Even if an inexperienced truck driver gets 2x what a bus driver gets it would still only put them at the low-end of IT pay rates.

P. Burgess writes...

Yes.... etc

I can't help but notice your consitently negative posts across this forum when it comes to the IT industry. I don't know why this is, I assume IT didn't work out well for your, and thats fine, like any industry it is not for everyone.

However I think you've gone off the rails and are throwing about blatant generalisations too freely without even a hint of objectivity in there.

When I look around the worst candidates are getting contracts at $50/hr, and the best candidates are getting contracts over $100/hr, and non-contractors I know in the industry pulling market average or above salaries in very secure jobs with little trouble finding new opportunities when they want. The picture you paint is nothing like what is really going on, at least here in Brisbane.

You could at least throw a bit of context into your posts in future.

z3r0 writes...

I've considered just quitting uni all together (the fees are tooo high tbh and the time is too long), I could just take an MCSD.

But my Wife (a recruiter) says I should stick with it and get a degree as i'll have problems getting a job otherwis

why cant u do both, study and look for work, if u find a job quit uni, if u dont get a job, u have ur degree to fall back on..... really leave ur self more outs.

John Howards job will be up soon ?

Zeynex writes...

John Howards job will be up soon

Well sorry PETER, don't hold your breath!

wombling_wombat writes...

That's what I'm thinking too. Everyone in this thread keeps repeating how much truck drivers make but looking at award rates I find it hard to believe. I know one guy who's a bus driver and he gets $28k + overtime. Even if an inexperienced truck driver gets 2x what a bus driver gets it would still only put them at the low-end of IT pay rates.

I think a lot of people are basing their opinions on silly tabloid articles. The fact is those low skilled, high paid jobs are few and far between and are usually high paid because they are dangerous or unpleasant.

Right now, I think IT is probably NOT the industry to enter if money is your main motivator. A smart, hardworking kid can probably earn more in many other industries. That said, a smart hardworking kid won't do too badly in IT either, certainly better than driving trucks or being an unskilled labourer.

Torytroll writes...

Right now, I think IT is probably NOT the industry to enter if money is your main motivator.

isnt money everyone motavtor. the only diffrence is who will stick out a job they like for a few years until there pay goes up and who do a job they hate for the rest of there lives just cause it pays good

rrrohan! writes...

isnt money everyone motavtor. the only diffrence is who will stick out a job they like for a few years until there pay goes up and who do a job they hate for the rest of there lives just cause it pays good

Nope. If money was our only motive, we'll all be heroin dealers or real estate agents. Most of us end up doing jobs we are either good at or comfortable with (which is not necessarily the same thing).

The biggest mistake for a 16 or 23 year old is to choose a job that pays better than others of the same age. In the long term they usually end up behind.

who do a job they hate for the rest of there lives just cause it pays good

There's plenty of people in that position. Which is another reason for not blindly following the money.

A lot of people are under the impression today that they can go mining,truckdriving, or blue collar work and make 100k, this is largely fantasy and media hype,

with no real skills you can go bush and make 70-80k PA, and even that can sound like good money to people who live in the city and it would be for a city.

Once you take out tax and realise you will spend at least 2/3+ of your time in the middle of nowhere working at least 12hrs a day, wont get to see friends, family or social life and there wont be much of a future with those earning and that lifestyle,
you can do just as well in the city and have a decent lifestyle too

P. Burgess writes...

Yes, but they're jobs which give a better return/future prospects for your input.

If 'IT' were a investment account, it’d be high risk, and piss-weak return.

Maybe Bill Gates is stupid enough to own Microsoft because he is getting piss-weak return.

k-lines writes...

Maybe Bill Gates is stupid enough to own Microsoft because he is getting piss-weak return.

well if you started when Gates did (early 70's) and have a worldwide strangle hold/monopoly on software you'd do ok like him,
I dont think there will be any more Bill Gates's in IT though

MADOGA writes...

ll be any more Bill Gates's in IT tho

lol, if anything there will be LOTS more.... It is still an explosive industry with lots more revelutions to go.

MigA writes...

lol, if anything there will be LOTS more.... It is still an explosive industry with lots more revelutions to go.

I'd agree. As much as it chokes me to say it, one of the pimply, hairy chested, keyboard warriors in these forums could be the next Billg. Who knows?

high pay... unskilled....

be an actor.

EDIT: make that a politician

When you guys say "I.T." what area do you mean? I.T. is an umbrella term for really lots of fields

Do you mean support? Networking? Software Development? Design? Management? etc...?

By the way, check out the 3rd item in the list of top jobs...

www.fastcompany.com/arti...p-jobs-main.html

z3r0 writes...

But my Wife (a recruiter) says I should stick with it and get a degree as i'll have problems getting a job otherwise.

So i'm just going to do a computer science course next year.

You're forcing yourself to study in order to get a job, but your choosing to study Computer Science? Something does not add up...

Reserve writes...

Basically, i just finished first year of uni as a mature age student (23) in computer science because i thought i wanted a career as a programmer. I'm good at writing code and get pretty much what programmers do ect but i have lost my passion for it.

Programming definitely isn't for everyone, it takes a lot of motivation to stare at a screen coding all day especially if you're making business software. But it's a very small part of IT. I recommend you look at a few other IT positions before writing it off entirely. You don't even have to be sitting in front of a computer all day for some of them. Maybe hardware or networking would be more your area. With your degree you could get into any IT job so you would have a lot of choice.

And if you want quick money, get into a bit of contracting straight out of uni before you take a full time job. Best decision I ever made.

MigA writes...

lol, if anything there will be LOTS more.... It is still an explosive industry with lots more revelutions to go.

Perhaps, but they would need to be:

- someone with plenty of innovation
- be somewhat of a visionary
- think outside the square
- have strong business acumen, esp. in sales/marketing

The number of people in IT with the above attributes would be rather small compared to all the ones who enter it because they 'like tinkering with PCs, networks, and sometimes a bit of code'.

I believe there are still some decent jobs in IT. You just need to have the right skill set or know the right people.

I started working in IT at 21 after completing a double major in internet computing and business information systems and managed to land myself a 30K/year job, as a consultant. After working at this job for 2 years, my salary had increased to about 47K/year and I was just due for another performance review and salary increase. My friend had just contacted me and said he could get me an interview where he was working. I went to the interview and was quite pleased with the position they were willing to offer, so I resigned from my current job during my performance review =).

So now, at 23, I'm working as a contractor as a data analyst, making $50/ph (including super), which I consider to be a very good wage at my age.

Torytroll writes...

one of the pimply, hairy chested, keyboard warriors in these forums could be the next Billg

I'd be more inclined to think one of them might be the next creator of YouTube or MySpace, and sell their creation for big bucks. Bill Gates had goals, like putting a computer in front of every student in every school in the USA. It probably never occurred to him to just build something up and sell it off, and at the same time I don't know if there was as much of that sort of thing going on back then as there is these days, with killer apps being snatched up by the big guys just as they start to take off.

wombling_wombat writes...

Do drivers really earn as much as everyone says? From what I can see the award rates for truck drivers isn't that impressive at all.

In mining yes.
No one is working for award rates at any mine that I know of.

duke writes...

.

I keep seeing things about a huge skills shortage in northern Queensland. People in the hotel & tourism industry. They are after people from Chef's to people that just do simple cleaning and room maintenance. They are paying really good money also. Every time I think about it, I get tempted to just leave my IT job to go live on the sunny beaches of a resort island. Id get paid about twice as much with half the responsibility and stress also.

My girlfriends parents moved to QLD to do that. Only problem is they pay $3,000/month rent in some crap house because places where these high pays are, cost of living is about the same as the pay.. HIGH. (Tourists and all that). A couple of my friends are chefs there but live in a small room (can't have anything of your own pretty much) as living costs are too much them to live in a place 'to call home'. There are some negatives to that, but the high $$ may outweight them. You just gotta remember why they are wanting people, lots of people have moved because they couldn't stand living there after a while. It's a high turn over area/industry

Well I have worked at roxby downs in SA Mining you work 6-7 days a week for three weeks then get a week off. I was making $400+ a day before tax obviously.

razz222 writes...

eeks then get a week off. I was making $400+ a da

thats not allot.... you can make that much easily in IT in SA now.... $50 a hour is going rates for a .Net developer. And not have to live in a remote place....

ps, is that salaried or hourly rate? sounds hourley if ur working more then 5 days a week and 7.5 hours a day... which is what you would work in IT here.

MigA writes...

thats not allot.... you can make that much easily in IT in SA now.... $50 a hour is going rates for a .Net developer

thats not easier though to be a qualified .net developer is years of study and learning.
to work in the mines is the right phone call and a drive away.

open a business.. why be a slave to the system??

john matrix writes...

open a business

harder said than done? or is that easier said than done. meh you get the idea. my mates dad open a business which ended going belly side up, cause alot of jobs were for family and therfore he didnt charge nilly as much as he should have and that was the death of the company. at work we charge min 49.50 for any job even if its just telling them printer is broken and cant get parts

rrrohan! writes...

than done? or is that easier said than done. meh you get the idea. my mates dad open a business which ended going belly side up, cause alot of jobs were for family a

yep so true..... youll have to work your arse of just to keep it a float.... work 3 times as hard for 1/3 as much........ 3/4 goe bust in the first 18 months or some..... that was some really poor advice i have to say ;-)

Yeah, all the successful retired business people think its great advice too ;)

it was a pity cause he was good at what he did and that was half the problem. because jobs were so easy for him alot took like 20 mins tops and he wouldnt charge for that. he was to generous

MigA writes...

that was some really poor advice i have to say

Yes - good job Bill Gates was easily put off from running a business - had he actually started a business he might be quite rich today!

Sure lots fail and it can be hard work - but the rewards can be HUGE - much more than any "wage slave" will ever make

Mr. Dog writes...

es - good job Bill Gates was easily put off from running a bus

we are talking aobut small business her, nothing more, so get bil gates gobolty goop out of you head. Having said that Bill gates was a work a holic in any account. he would work 20+ hours a day, and go to be anywhere he could lay down, tables, chairs, ect... then get up and work again..... and he had a good idea too.

MigA writes...

we are talking aobut small business her, nothing more

Microsoft was very small to start.

All I was trying to pint out is that LOTS of people do very well running businesses - and even the large ones start out small. Sure many fail, but that is no reason not to try ASSUMING that you have a good idea and a sound business plan.

True, to just say that running a business is a waste of time because you failed so everyone else will and we should all just look for a comfortable job is just gay.

If anything it's fair to say you would have to learn LESS to run your own website/business. One programming language, one database, one OS. Certainly you'd have to do 3-4 times the work in a grunt sense.

It'd be good to have a partner. I see a lot of successful businesses start off as a two man operation. Both seemingly having the same skill set and levels of skill.

And if it pays off you have REAL money. None of this $1k a week working for the bank for 30-40 years shit.

Edit: You're almost mad if you don't have a go imo. I mean wtf is myspace? Youtube? It's shit is what it is. CRAP. But they made SO much money it's filthy.

A partner would be good, i have had to say no to so many website jobs because i'm crap at graphics/flash ect, more of a coder than an artsy type. If i could team up with a good photoshop person i think i could make it work. I try outsoucing the graphics on RAC but with my own deadlines and the dodgy people on RAC it was just a pain in the ass.

Torytroll writes...

I was drinking beers with a few last night.

One is an ITIL expert with a major outsourcing company. He started earning bugger all as a tape ape after dropping out of a uni arts degree. Another was unemployed for two years after finishing her degree, she is now a senior manager with a multinational company.

They had to work hard and do some pretty ordinary, boring and poorly paid jobs before reaching the positions they now hold.

Torytroll, may I ask, if these 2 people have great attitudes? Are they the sort of people who don't give up and are grateful and happy with what they have?

That sort of turnaround is amazing!

MigA writes...

yep so true..... youll have to work your arse of just to keep it a float.... work 3 times as hard for 1/3 as much........ 3/4 goe bust in the first 18 months or some..... that was some really poor advice i have to say ;-)

My old man ran 3 pizza shops and a night club, its in my blood...

Its been proven time and time again that you dont need any skill to make money. In fact you dont even need schooling as long as you have some business ingenuity you are good to go.
Some people have no business training and they are just absolute machines when it comes to business they are just born knowing how to make loot.

Hi there,

I'am in the same situation as well :( I'am in Perth and wanting to get a job in the mining industry. I'am prepared to work 7 days and all hours.

But how do you get a job in the mining industry ? I have no experience but looking for a high paying job. Can you or anyone else help me get a job? orpoint me in the right direction?

Feel free to email me on wickedguy333@yahoo.com.au

thanking you

wickedguy333 writes...

I'am in the same situation as well :( I'am in Perth and wanting to get a job in the mining industry. I'am prepared to work 7 days and all hours.

Flame me all you want but you won't last long no matter how motivated you are. Why do you think work safety is such an important issue in the mining industry? They don't want you falling asleep whilst operating heavy machinery and the like.

I have no experience but looking for a high paying job.

ROFL, thanks for making me laugh this early on a weekend.

Well labourers dont need any qualifications, except for the greencard (for working on construction sites) but you need to like working your body hard.

Iwannajob writes...

That's very true in the IT world but I personally know doctors and lawyers that make in excess of $250K.

I know Taxi drivers and truck drivers who make almost that same amount.. And yes, I am being serious

What about the public service?

That pay isn't too bad (starts at around $45K or so) & there's regular pay rises (increments & AA), the training isn't too bad & promotional prospects are reasonable depending on where you are

Some interesting jobs going at the ATO.........

www.ato.gov.au/careers/c...u=&mfp=&st=&cy=1

Looks like not many people read your post properly

You don't want to do what you have been doing - you want an unskilled high payting job.

Heres 2 I know of:

1. Network marketing - yeah yeah pyramids, scams etc...... at the end of the day direct selling and network marketing is growing and does make people many and the good companies are legit.

2. Mines - work in WA and even as close as Roxby Downs pay high wages for some simple jobs - driving mine trucks is easier than you would think and pays a good wage

mining engineer cadet ship.

First year wage 70k, 2nd year 90, 3rd year 110. [mate is doing it] Sits in an office, calculating figures, goes out occasionally to measure stockpiles using gps. Only prob your stuck in the middle of whop whop, but you get paid well and almost everything is paid for you, internet, accommodation, food, electricity etc.

But, my mate is an hour drive from the next town, and a 10 hour drive from home. But he is saving up VERY quickly, probably have enough to retire and live comfortably by the time he is 35. Has no girlfriend, has no life, but is well setup for the future. Of course you have to be good with maths and english[lots of meetings and communication as well as calculations]. There are differen't ones around, some paying more then others, so its really up to luck for how much you actually get paid.

Troz

Trozza writes...

mining engineer cadet ship.

I don't think an engineering cadetship is the sort of position the OP has in mind.

It ain't summint you walk into off the street.

Well, I would say if you really want to work in the construction industry you can earn $250 - $500 per day within three months of starting.

I know of people who are working as tilers in Construction and they have never had any prior experience or knowledge.

They basically start as normal labourers "grouting" and after a few months they become tilers.

This is how they do it. At lunchtime when every one is having their lunch they try to have a quick lunch, and go to do some tiling they stay back in the afternoon and do half an hour of tiling without pay though, but a good way to learn how to tile. And within a few months they are tilers.

I have a friend up in Brisbane who is earning $300 per day for 7.6 hours plus super, he moved there from Sydney just about a year ago.

By the way I know of people in WA who are earning in excess of $1500 per day as subcontractors.

Career talk annoys the crap outta me

Every damn person out there always knows a 'guy' that basically is living it up in the way the picture gets painted earning 200bucks and hour doing 'tiling' or driving 'trucks' whatever the hell it is.

Making it sound all easy or whatever.

Stop the crap . really . it annoys me. That is a minority of people. Thats like me saying that people are making heaps of money out of self sufficient websites. Who cares. Its a known fact that theres heaps of people out there that make money out of just sitting on their ass doing nothing.

Now reality for most people.

Reality is a very high percentile of the people in the medical and law sectors are doing well.

The median wage and job satisfaction is relatively higher compared to dropping no-doz and driving trucks around the countryside.

Sure there is a few people out there making lots of money by just sitting around , but they are not in the majority. Just an exception.

survival of the fit writes...

Reality is a very high percentile of the people in the medical and law sectors are doing well.

But they are not unskilled monkeys and thus it is off-topic

Denser writes...

But they are not unskilled monkeys and thus it is off-topic

reality is that there arent that many unskilled monkeys getting high pay. Thus incredibly on topic.

survival of the fit writes...

reality is that there arent that many unskilled monkeys getting high pay. Thus incredibly on topic.

True, but the OP is only interested in unskilled monkeys, hence is looking for a supply and demand imbalance

OT police.

survival of the fit writes...

OT police.

lol, your right but, hey some people dont like hard work and reality

Try a recruitment firm that deals with mining. Excel in Adelaide I think is the one.
Or just email the HR guy on mining company sites.
I am still getting offers from places I put my name down at almost a year ago.

oh sorry i thought this was were untrained monkeys came to apply for job. sorry

Denser writes...

lol, your right but, hey some people dont like hard work and reality

This is what the OP needs to keep in mind.

Most jobs that pay well for unskilled workers are hard, difficult and unpleasant.

I'd suggest the typical hairy chested keyboard warrior here on Whirlpool would last until morning tea in most of those jobs.

Torytroll writes...

typical hairy chested keyboard warrior

lol i hate typing but i love computers. only thing i dont mind typing is wasd lol

Iwannajob writes...

That's very true in the IT world but I personally know doctors and lawyers that make in excess of $250K.

I know IT Consultants who make $250k pa. I know a lot of them.

Torytroll writes...

I'd suggest the typical hairy chested keyboard warrior here on Whirlpool would last until morning tea in most of those jobs.

I dont have a hairy chest, and still wouldn't make it to morning tea.

Unknown Designer writes...

I know IT Consultants who make $250k pa. I know a lot of them.

whats there job role though. and i think its now I.C.T

Only 5% of people are making over 80k so 100k can't be that common.

Reserve writes...

nd just wasted a year and all my meagre savings at uni

Yeah I'm not going to do uni if I can help it. If I must, it's going to be part time.

I.T. education in australia is pretty crap anyways.

Get a job packing boxes at coles myer

I work there atm adn i get paid 29.60 base plus overtime rates for weekend and arvo work.

its a mokey job that pays well is all..

AtomicDog writes...

Yeah I'm not going to do uni if I can help it.

trainee ships are better imo. your trainingis paid for, you have a job (even if it doesnt pay great) and your getting one of the most valuable thing. experiance. its worth its weigh in Ghz

snappyj writes...

its a mokey job that pays well is all..

im sure if they could train monkeys to do it they would. give them special monkey uniforms and a cigar as the monkey union demanded

I can tell you for a fact that there are EXTREMLY high paying jobs out there that do not require you to have any skills/experience what so ever as I personally have a job like that. I have a job as an industrial sanitiser and I am on just over $260,000 a year, working about 30 hours per week.

I was able to be taught everything that I need know for this job in about 4 weeks and it is what you would call an "unskilled" job. I am 25 years old and have been at this job since I was 21. When I finished high school I went to tafe and got a diploma in network engineering and about 1 year after I finished that my brother got me this job. He had already been there about 2 years before I got a job there and was always talking about how good it was and that as soon as an opening came up he would put in the good word for me. When an opportunity did come up, i got an interview and was hired straight away.

A lot of my mates went to uni and racked up $30,000 hecs debts to get a job that pays them $40,000-$50,000 a year for working 50 hour weeks; where's i didn't even have to go to uni or do a trade and I get 5 times that amount for working less hours and people have often asked me why I don't got to uni to get a "better job"!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!! Personally, I don't tell people how much I earn, but it just amazes me how most people tend to believe that if you don't go to uni that you will never earn a decent income... IT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

Peace

If unskilled and trade jobs are so well paid, how come it isn't reflected in most of the advertisements I read?

Plenty of employers are confident of finding tradies for $25-$30 per hour.

Junior001 writes...

I have a job as an industrial sanitiser

What exactly is an industrial sanitiser?

most people tend to believe that if you don't go to uni that you will never earn a decent income

Uni may have been a ticket to riches back when baby boomers were young adults, but not now. Every man & his dog has a degree these days so its not like you can rock up to an employer & demand an extra $10K just because you have a degree.

Personally, if I had my time again I would've gotten a trade. I'd be my own boss, make a packet & save myself a packet while doing my home reno's.

I assume a lot of non-uni people in the mining industry are making lots of $$$....

Reserve writes...

i want to work 7 days a week, and save as much as possible.

Alot of people have being critical of this idea, but I get where your coming from. You've been taken it pretty easy in life upto now as far as finances go and you wanna put your head down and get ahead of everyone else. Obviously noone wants to work 7 days a week for the rest of their working lives.

What most people just accept though is they have to work 5 days a week. Put your head down make some good money, investments and you will be able to take it easy in the future. If anyone works 5 days a week forever I think thats pretty sad :<., but necessary for some I suppose.

EDIT: on the mining front one of my mate made 60k in half a year, doing insulation in the roofs or something with no experience. Spent the next 6 months surfing all over the world.

Junior001 writes...

I have a job as an industrial sanitiser and I am on just over $260,000 a year, working about 30 hours per week.

there must be a catch....what exactly do you do?

Junior001 writes...

can tell you for a fact that there are EXTREMLY high paying jobs out there that do not require you to have any skills/experience what so ever as I personally have a job like that. I have a job as an industrial sanitiser and I am on just over $260,000 a year, working about 30 hours per week.

sounds a lot for a cleaner, $260k ????, i find it a bit hard to belive the amount you get

Hey man,

this will sound weird but Look at the military. Army Air Force excetra.... If you want a choice and a trade and a job that you can change from doing one cool thing to another then the army would be a good choice.

I am not in any of the armed services my self, i am studying in IT Networking, but my brother was in the army and he done heaps of great stuff and got paid heaps for it.

check it out if thats mite be your thing.

cheers.

Junior001 "I can tell you for a fact that there are EXTREMLY high paying jobs out there that do not require you to have any skills/experience what so ever as I personally have a job like that. I have a job as an industrial sanitiser and I am on just over $260,000 a year, working about 30 hours per week".

I call your bluff and say your full of shite.

The closest thing to industrial sanitising would be cleaning up after a trauma scene.

I strongly doubt a business could afford to pay someone in excess of $160 /hr after taking into account overheads and the like.

As for the OP, I would look into job agencies that cater to the construction trade as a temp, see if you like the work then try weasel your way into a company. Hint - Make friends with the superintendents / foreman.

..

Normanby writes...

"I can tell you for a fact that there are EXTREMLY high paying jobs out there that do not require you to have any skills/experience what so ever as I personally have a job like that. I have a job as an industrial sanitiser and I am on just over $260,000 a year, working about 30 hours per week".

struth..... where do I apply?

Word of warning about Kalgoorlie. If you are in a bar and a nice young lady finds you enchanting and offers to go home with you. You may well be Erol Flynn but more likely she's a hooker:)

See this article:
www.thewest.com.au/defau...&ContentID=10312

Normanby writes...

I call your bluff and say your full of shite.

The closest thing to industrial sanitising would be cleaning up after a trauma scene.

Dunno, he could be a jizz mopper or a hitman :P

Normanby writes...

The closest thing to industrial sanitising would be cleaning up after a trauma scene.

That's what a rescue pumper and fire hose are for.

FWIW, I agree. You could do that sort of money if you own your own business with a bunch of people working for you etc, but working for someone else? No way.

He's an industrial sanitizer for a German porn studio. The money's not worth it!

lol Kalgoorlie aint that bad...not the place to bring up a family though. Its always funny taking friends who don't know what a skimpy is, to the pub though. (good for a laugh but seriously overrated)

I started doing a course in real estate, I really thought it would be something I would enjoy, but now that I have nealy finished my registration I'm not so sure :(

I change my mind about what I want to do as a career so much that I cant sleep, its really bad!!

I spent $700 on this so maybe I will stick it out.

The exact name for the job I have is a "microbiological industrial sanitiser". The tasks I am required to do are pretty complex to go into detail, but they are very important for the smooth operation of the company and if I flap up it can cause big trouble. You would have to be pretty careless to mess up though.

The SOLE REASON why i got this job was because of my brother. The company I work for does all their hiring in house and unless you actually know someone in the business you would never ever get a job. It just comes back to the old saying that, "it isn't what you know, it is who you know" and it is SOOOO TRUE.

I don't ever have to worry about going to uni or doing some sort of trade because of this job, I could retire in my early 30s if I wanted but I won't because this job is easy and there is no stress what so ever and even better is that after you have been there for 5 years you get a pay rise of about $70,000; as this is what my brother got and this pushes the pay up to just over $330k per year.

To everyone who thinks getting an education is the answer, you would turn your back too on an education if you had the chance to earn this kind of money. It doesn't matter what background/experience you come from if you know the right people.

Money > Education

Peace

Junior001, since we are both on Whirlpool and I posted first do you mind getting me a position where you are?

Thanks

survival of the fit writes...

Its been proven time and time again that you dont need any skill to make money. In fact you dont even need schooling as long as you have some business ingenuity you are good to go.
Some people have no business training and they are just absolute machines when it comes to business they are just born knowing how to make loot.

Take a look at Michael Band at Jumba, he's in his mid 20s and has just sold his highly successfuly webhosting business for quite a lot.

Look at Michael McGoogan and AussieHQ, he's only 20 and already runs a multimillion dollar webhosting company and is labeled the richest 20 year old in Canberra, probably a lot richer then anyone else.

Both of these guys dropped out of school when they were 17.

The key is not to use money as the motivator. Find something that you're good at, have lots of passion for and change the industry your in to work for you rather then to change for it and you'll be laughing in a few years time.

Gav L writes...

Find something that you're good at, have lots of passion for and change the industry your in to work for you rather then to change for it and you'll be laughing in a few years time.
Assumming you beat the heavily stacked odds that is. But money shouldn't be the only motivation I agree.

fist4jesus writes...

Dunno, he could be a jizz mopper or a hitman :P

I'll still be a jizz mopper or hitman for 260K... !

Double $$$ on a German porno set... do have standards to keep.

Reserve writes...

Basically, i just finished first year of uni as a mature age student (23) in computer science because i thought i wanted a career as a programmer. I'm good at writing code and get pretty much what programmers do ect but i have lost my passion for it. I simply can not waste another year of my life sitting in front of a computer and feel the need to just go out, work hard and get on with it and give up my educated dreams because i cant imagine being in IT for the rest of my life.

Mate 23 is only the beginning. I started my degree, when I was 22, I have been working through all different areas of IT, from networking to programming. IT just isn't sitting in front of a PC, there are some good challenging jobs out there. There are development, support, management jobs.

Most of the people I went to Uni with were mature aged, some have moved out of the IT industry, some have reasonable jobs, and some have great jobs.

I for one would suggest sticking to IT, the lure of pay in other occupations is a hard thing to get over, but trust me I would rather be sitting at my desk 8 hours a day earning the same or more than a labourer lifting heavy stuff all day long.

If you need money get a part time job. Skills will always pay off in the future, and you can always change jobs, by leveraging of your acquired skill sets.

Reserve writes...

Any tips or advice on my situation would be greatly appreciated.

Only tip I can say is that you are not in a rocket ship. Choose one direction and if it doesn't work out change. Do what you like or feel comfortable with. No point making $ if you hate being there every minute of the day.

Junior001 writes...

To everyone who thinks getting an education is the answer, you would turn your back too on an education if you had the chance to earn this kind of money. It doesn't matter what background/experience you come from if you know the right people.

I'd reitterate from the previous poster - "you're full of crap".

Why would a company choose to hire unskilled people at quarter of a mil a year? That makes no business sense whatsoever. Unless you are contracting and the work is disgusting and/or dangerous.

Even if it was true, it's crap advice as how can the OP (or anyone else) get into the field. It's not like they can plan for it, as, as you say, you need to know someone to get the role.

There are unskilled manufacturing jobs where you can get about $100K (such as tyre manufacturing) for 3x12 hour shifts a week. As with this role, you need to know someone to get the job.

Just go on the dole - we will support you.

tallman writes...

Why would a company choose to hire unskilled people at quarter of a mil a year? That makes no business sense whatsoever. Unless you are contracting and the work is disgusting and/or dangerous.

Yeah I'll add to this, it's the managers that are looking after their own hides. If they get a choice of highly skilled (non qualified) worker or a monkey with lots of certs and quals he will surely choose the monkey. Why? because when the shit hit the fan he will have to answer to his superior. If he was to be in charge of an unqualified person he wouldnt be so lucky to get away. Whereas if he was to point the finger at a qualified person then they would have to excuse to screw up...because theyre qualified.... simple.

I was going to post a new thread about this. It's amazing what I have seen at my brothers work place. Guys with degrees are earning double of guys without degrees. BUT YET THEY PERFORM THE SAME DUTIES AND SIT RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER!! LOLOLOL

What happens when a guy with only a high school cert but got more skills than any of the Masters holders at his workplace cant get to the wage that those Masters holders earns? This is what's happended to my friend.

Well I'll tell you what he did. He asked for a pay raise, didnt get it, so he resigned and turned to being professional hacker. You people have no idea the things these hackers get up to in gaining an income, be it illegal. One click of a mouse and your bank account would be wiped out.

Now if you multiply the above example up by how many high school drop outs out there in the world that are not hired and paid for their super uber I.T skills what do you get? Companies are not willing to hire these people, instead they hire some monkey holding a degree/master.

sad isnt it?

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

sad isnt it?

Not really, those certificates are an indication of dedication to career, as opposed to somebody who could potentially leave the company high and dry.

HECS debt makes for agood career longevity motivator!

monkeytron writes...

HECS debt makes for agood career longevity motivator!

LOL how about an unqualified worker with a mortgage??

Not really, those certificates are an indication of dedication to career, as opposed to somebody who could potentially leave the company high and dry.

That's a pretty unfair statement. Anyone can leave their job at any time. I've got highly paid qualified accountants here leaving to work as chefs just cuz they feel like it.

What do you say to that?

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

You people have no idea the things these hackers get up to in gaining an income, be it illegal. One click of a mouse and your bank account would be wiped out.

One click? Would that be the right mouse button or the left mouse button?

Reserve writes...

Anyone know of a good industry or field to try get into to get a job. I've met some labourers making $60k+ but cant for the life of me break into anything lucritive.

$60k is lucrative? Not surprisingly you've found unskilled and lucrative hard to come by. Go back to school and tough it out. You'll eventually hate anything you do for money, so you might as well get paid well for it.

Edit: As usual threads like this tend to pull in all the bull sh1t artists only too willing to tell you how easy their job is and that they can't even read properly, yet they earn 5x everybody else. Use your common sense and set the bull sh1t detector to extra-sensitive.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

What do you say to that?

It doesn't matter what I've got to say to that. I'm not a CEO or Board Member or Director or anything.

randomguy writes...

One click? Would that be the right mouse button or the left mouse button?

as I recalled seeing him wiping out someone's bank account, it was using his middle finger on the the middle third button using his brand new 486 DX/33 with a 40Mb HDD operating on DOS 6.1

monkeytron writes...

It doesn't matter what I've got to say to that. I'm not a CEO or Board Member or Director or anything.

Then dont make such generalisation sunny boy. You dont have to be a CEO to know any monkey can just leave their job and left you high and dry.

studiorambo writes...

Edit: As usual threads like this tend to pull in all the bull sh1t artists only too willing to tell you how easy their job is and that they can't even read properly, yet they earn 5x everybody else. Use your common sense and set the bull sh1t detector to extra-sensitive.

agree!

I'm allergic to bullshit.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

as I recalled seeing him wiping out someone's bank account, it was using his middle finger on the the middle third button using his brand new 486 DX/33 with a 40Mb HDD operating on DOS 6.1

Oh dear so that would really strain Apple hackers then :(

In all seriousness, whether true or not (and I highly doubt it) he'd be in prison if he attempted anything similar today. Hardly a good career choice.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

monkey can just leave their job and left you high and dry.
Don't make such an assumption sunny boy. Or It might seem like you missed what I was actually saying.
CEO's ect have a better idea of how they tend to select employees, better then the average layman anyway.....

How many unskilled people have mortgages anyway, let alone get hired into such a position.

A good reason why Workchoices is FTW. If a person IS in that position - his experience can be braught to the table versus the name suffixes of the other bloke.

monkeytron writes...

How many unskilled people have mortgages anyway, let alone get hired into such a position.

What are you implying? Unskilled workers are too stupid to pay off a mortgage?
Since when do job skills have anything to do with getting yourself into debt??

monkeytron writes...

How many unskilled people have mortgages anyway, let alone get hired into such a position.

ROFL!! gotta laugh! I think you better stop typing before you make a fool of yourself son.

monkeytron writes...

How many unskilled people have mortgages anyway, let alone get hired into such a position.

Lots do.. or did in the past.

My auntie is a single mum and part-time cocktail waitress. She's got a mortgage, bought her house for $92k in the 1990s - before the glorious housing boom. She wouldn't have a rat's chance in hell if she was buying today.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Guys with degrees are earning double of guys without degrees. BUT YET THEY PERFORM THE SAME DUTIES AND SIT RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER!! LOLOLOL

Now I'm really laughing HARD because I've seen the EXACT OPPOSITE. I.e. guys sitting next to me with degrees (but less experience) doing the exact same hours as me and earning a quarter of my wage.

It's all about the experience. If you are skilled and can get a foot in the door, a degree is not necessary.

Junior001 writes...

I don't tell people how much I earn, but it just amazes me how most people tend to believe that if you don't go to uni that you will never earn a decent income... IT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

Absolutely agree. There are so many better things to do (and not just apprenticeships) than paying thousands of dollars to sit in a lecture theater.

Junior001 writes...

To everyone who thinks getting an education is the answer, you would turn your back too on an education if you had the chance to earn this kind of money.

This one of the prime reasons I'm against doing IT at uni -- diminishing returns. Because IT is such an up-and-down industry (in most areas anyway) it's stupid to invest 3-4 years when your skill set and area of expertise could shift in any direction.

As long as I'm in IT, my work philosophy is "get rich quick". By that I mean, while the money is there (and believe me, there is BIG MONEY), grab as much as you can. Try to invest as much as possible. It wouldn't matter if you're a millionaire if you just waste all your money on stupidities like morgages. If you want to be rich, put your money into stocks.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

ROFL!! gotta laugh!
Well at least your thread hasn't been a complete waste of time then.

How many people with no programming skills get hired as programmers?
How many people with no technical skills get hired as on-site tech's?
etc.

AtסmicDסg writes...

(but less experience)

That says it all. Once they've got enough experience they will supersede the non-degree holders. Getting into project management etc. faster than a non-degree holders and so on.....

doing the exact same hours as me and earning a quarter of my wage.

Seriously though, you're not comparing apples because, as said above, you've got more experience and got to where you are through time/experience, not qualifications. You will surely see yourself being superseded in the end once they caught up to your level.

Similar situation where my friends had worked, they're non-degree I.T Services with lots of experience (Since the 90's). Got in when they were 16yrs old, earning a pretty high income compare to the fresh uni grads. But slowly they started seeing them grads taking on project management and other important high paying roles and my friends were left behind with the same old shit.... even though my friends were there longer than them uni grads!!

Sad but true.

monkeytron writes...

How many people with no programming skills get hired as programmers?
How many people with no technical skills get hired as on-site tech's?

you forgot to add:

monkeytron writes...

How many unskilled people have mortgages anyway

ROFL!!! LOLOLOLOLOL

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

But slowly they started seeing them grads taking on project management and other important high paying roles and my friends were left behind with the same old shit.... even though my friends were there longer than them uni grads!!

I'm in a large organization, and there's a clear path of promotion to project management within my department. I've asked about this, and a degree is not one of the requirements.

In the long run I might want to get into upper management, in that case I may be able to do a degree part time and have the company pay for it.

But do I really need a degree just to make a comfortable amount of money? I'm already involved in a promising venture in my free time. I've been offered contract roles at very nice rates. My debt is almost zero so soon I'll be able to invest.

The way I see it, degrees can be useful if you need the piece of paper (and you're not applying for an IT position) but to someone just starting out in IT, why spend so much of your future income paying off uni when you can get a foot in for free and work up from there?

AtסmicDסg writes...

There are so many better things to do (and not just apprenticeships) than paying thousands of dollars to sit in a lecture theater.

Such as?

Alchemisst writes...

Such as?

Well, some of my friends (a few of them) were not fortunate enough to get into uni. They're now earning ~$80k driving forklifts. They bought, built and live in brand new 5 bedroom houses with entertainment room and a snooker room in them new suburbs (be it outer suburbs).

They've made a pretty good life for themselves without any further education, apart from getting a forklift license.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

~$80k driving forklifts.

Never heard of forklift drivers getting over 50k..

Alchemisst writes...

Never heard of forklift drivers getting over 50k..

I'm doing their taxes now as we speak. lol *cough* refund *cough*

Alchemisst writes...

Such as?

Probably more than I can think of right now. I mean think of anything you enjoy doing, and there's probably a way to make money out of it, if you're bright enough. If you think formal education is a precursor to making any kind of serious money you're living under a rock.

Most finance jobs etc. need at least a degree..

Alchemisst writes...

Most finance jobs etc. need at least a degree..

If you want a job in finance, go get a degree.

If you want a job in IT, don't waste 3 years of your precious young life studying CS or SE. Get yourself a job, work your way up, and later on when you're in a larger company get them to pay for the degree.

If you just want money, go into the mining industry for a few years, earn big stacks, put it into investments and live off the interest.

Alchemisst writes...

Never heard of forklift drivers getting over 50k

Try the Ports

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

...

They've made a pretty good life for themselves without any further education, apart from getting a forklift license.

Then there are some people in this world who want to make a difference, use their brain. Sure 80K is nice, but you're still a dumb arse.

AtסmicDסg writes...

If you just want money, go into the mining industry for a few years, earn big stacks, put it into investments and live off the interest.

Now there's a cliche. I wonder how many of the people running around talking about the riches to be had by all and sundry in "the mining industry" are actually in the mining industry themselves? There isn't a miner, earning salary or wage, in this country earning as much as a base metals dealer in Sydney or Melbourne.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

I'm doing their taxes now as we speak. lol *cough* refund *cough*

I'd be interested to know what legitimate deductions or offsets a forklift driver can claim?

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

you forgot to add:
Well how many unskilled people I did mention - are able to get loan enough to buy a house, let alone raise a mortgage against it?

studiorambo writes...

Now there's a cliche. I wonder how many of the people running around talking about the riches to be had by all and sundry in "the mining industry" are actually in the mining industry themselves?

Good point, and they make it sound like getting a job in the mines is easy...maybe if you have a trade it is.

Alchemisst writes...

Good point, and they make it sound like getting a job in the mines is easy...maybe if you have a trade it is.

Well these are all options you can take in life with their own individual drawbacks.

Personally you couldn't get me to work in WA for $50k more than my current pay because job satisfaction/location counts more.

heyimsu writes...

Then there are some people in this world who want to make a difference, use their brain. Sure 80K is nice, but you're still a dumb arse.

aaah yes, the ideology of a young mind. Don't lose that spark like the rest of us son.

^{making a difference.....BAH!!!}

studiorambo writes...

I'd be interested to know what legitimate deductions or offsets a forklift driver can claim?

He's also a union delegate, plenty deductions there for union work on the road etc.

monkeytron writes...

Well how many unskilled people I did mention - are able to get loan enough to buy a house, let alone raise a mortgage against it?

I've got a client with a worker earning $305 per week gross. His job is to sort and move sheepskins dripping with blood that just came straight off the back of sheep in a shed. He managed to get a $300k loan for a house. Don't know how he did it though. LOLOLOLOL

My mortgage repayments are $450 a week for a $260K loan. He must have got a good interest rate, or had the majority of the deposit all ready to go.

pip

P.S. I pay a little more then I am suppose to. I want to get the loan over and done with.

uh.... yeh... wats your weekly gross? LOLOLOLOL

Its way too easy to get a mortgage these days. Which is why the market over in America is in a credit crisis and the Australian market has the lowest housing affordability for several decades because people borrow way beyond their means and so a slight increase in rates send them into default. There also that waste of time called mortgage insurance which people have to take out for low doc/no deposit loans. My husband got a quote for a mortgage when he was working as a call centre bitch on minimum wage and the bank was willing to lend him 150k with no deposit but a higher interest rate plus insurance.

Mining jobs for the unskilled are easy to get if you know where to look/who to ask. But generally the people that know those kinds of things have friends or family members who help them get the jobs. Just remember that you and every other "monkey " is wanting to jump on the bandwagon so its alot more competitive than you think. Better to plan for the long term and pick an unskilled job that will have you being trained in some skill that can be carried forward into another job.

Sorry but any kind of industrial cleaning job that pays so more than some managers screams danger money. At least in a mine you can see most of the hazards when OH&S is rammed down your throat 24/7

Reserve writes...

Basically, i just finished first year of uni as a mature age student (23) in computer science because i thought i wanted a career as a programmer. I'm good at writing code and get pretty much what programmers do ect but i have lost my passion for it. I simply can not waste another year of my life sitting in front of a computer and feel the need to just go out, work hard and get on with it and give up my educated dreams because i cant imagine being in IT for the rest of my life.

I think you should take some course and become a process control technician / engineer (depending on the type of courses). They are typically well paid and this would utilise some of your existing skill set. They are paid good money, anywhere from $65000 --> $150+ depending on skill set, hours and experience.

DrE

Alchemisst writes...

Never heard of forklift drivers getting over 50k..

55 hours or more a week times $27+ x 48 weeks . work it out .
gets very close

Subterranean Pixae writes...

ts way too easy to get a mortgage these days. Which is why the market over in America is in a credit crisis and the Australian market has the lowest housing affordability for several decades because people borrow way beyond their means and so a slight increase in rates send them into default.

Without straying too off-topic ... what happens to these foreclosures (if that's the right term). How do the banks offload them? They have better things to do than hang on to a house, as I'd hazard a guess that they're not in the business of residential property management.

Theravadin writes...

what happens to these foreclosures (if that's the right term). How do the banks offload them?

Auction. The World Today on ABC had reported that real estate agents estimate that 9 out of 10 auctions in western Sydney are repossessed.

There seems to be a lot of upset and jealous people in this thread, angry that they went to uni, studied for a peice of paper thats not worth much without experience while other people who are better with their hands than brains got a job that suited them and are now earning more then the uni monkeys.

Life is unfair! Boo hoo.

shanec writes...

here seems to be a lot of upset and jealous people in this thread,

No anger here, I have plenty of friends who earn more than me (both with degree's and without) and come to the realisation you dont need to earn a lot to be wealthy. Its not how much you earn but what you spend it on that gets you rich :).

studied for a peice of paper thats not worth much without experience

Interesting point, but suddenly that piece of paper is worth a lot more when the recpient gains the experience.

Life is unfair! Boo hoo.

Indeed it is, especially when jobs you start applying for see having a degree as a major positive when hiring.

My brother works in the mines, He did a diploma in programming at tafe , got bored and left.

He doesn't earn what u gays are saying.

Hes on an apprenticeship ~ $48,000.Renting your own place will cost you double than what it will in the city.
But basically he just moved up their, Got a job in the post office, then went for the position when they advertised .
Easiest way is to move up to the North of WA with a few grand to live off till you get a job one of the towns and then wait till they advertise mining jobs

atec77 writes...

55 hours or more a week times $27+ x 48 weeks . work it out .
gets very close

I was talking to one of my friend up in Sydney working casual for Woolworth 2 yrs ago driving forklift. On Sundays he was getting $46 p/hr (2x and a half) or something. He say usually when he clocks up $600 in a day he would walk away and do no more. But that was 2 years ago.

monkeytron writes...

How many people with no programming skills get hired as programmers?
How many people with no technical skills get hired as on-site tech's?
etc.

I know this is from a couple of pages back but....

In my first year of uni I was hired as a junior network administrator, I was 18 then. No skills or qualifications at all, I didn't even know what a server was. They gave me some MS books and an internet connection and told me to learn. After 6 months they asked me to start maintaining their websites so I taught myself ASP, SQL and CSS and did that for 3 years. I ended up quitting uni and stayed on full time there.

What got me that job was a very positive and outgoing attitude and the willingness to learn anything they throw my way. IMO without that you'll struggle in IT regardless of qualifications.

Uni has it's place, but I'm glad I didn't waste any more time there than I did.

Life if all about money... It is all about getting paid... So why would one go to uni or do a trade when you have the money side of things already taken care off? Makes no sense to me at all. I laugh at people who go to uni for 3-4 years and then come out and get a job working 50 hour weeks earning $40/50k a year... Pathetic!!!!!!!!

How important you are in society IS NOT measured by how educated you are, it is measured by how much money you have. An "unskilled" worker who earns over $250k a year is a person of more importance than a doctor who earns $150k a year.

Success is measured by the size of your wallet NOT by your education level.

Peace

Not everyone can get a job like you. You are extremely lucky.

[ Junior001 writes...
Life if all about money... It is all about getting paid... So why would one go to uni or do a trade when you have the money side of things already taken care off? Makes no sense to me at all.

Education is about how to enjoy life, it is history, culture, art, music, opera, movie, novel, traveling, communication, humour sense, wine, poetry, it is about knowing how to wear, how to dress, how to tic woman and where to eat. You may have a lot of money, without all the shit of education, you are so boring that can't make woman hot and at the end buy a woman from third world country. Man without money with good taste can still have a good quality life, and tick rich woman,because good taste is come from family back ground and good education and not from money.
you may be rich but when you go to taxi, restaurant or pub, the servant can look down on you, put mouth water on your food because you have a foul mouth and bad manner.

Reserve writes...

basically, i just finished first year of uni as a mature age student (23)

Reserve writes...

Anyway, this leaves me in a position of hopelessness.

Reserve writes...

Any tips or advice on my situation would be greatly appreciated.

broken dreams are common...don't expect anything from anyone or anything at all.

This way you will avoid disappointment.

Find a small company where a close knit workforce genuinely care about each other and be content, hopefully the company nowadays can stay in business long enough to see everyone who works for the company through a lifetime of job security and prosperity.

Avoid large corporations where your just a branded number of a carcass and thrown out like trash for pet food because directors need a few extra million by cost cutting measures...unless you like that sorta thing.

Meh guys dont know about anyone else but Id be happy for reasonable pay for unskilled monkeys, people expecting high pay really are probably being a bit unrealistic.

I do know someone who is a factory worker and is earning ~100K before overtime, building tyres - has been for years (was earning even more when nightshift) but the jobs were very difficult to get in the first place. And the factory is going to close down sooner or later - It just doesnt pay employers to employ unskilled people (in general) for high amounts.

I would have a think about semi-skilled jobs that can get you decent pay and possibilty of skilling up etc rather than hope to jump into lots of dollars. I know thats what I am doing when my redundancy comes up soonish.

Btw guys, one of the fundamental difference between earning 30K and, say 50K is that a lot of the basic expenses (petrol, food, utilities) are the same. Regardless of anything else a 'small' jump (compared to the figures people have been bandying about here) can make a huge difference to peoples lifestyle.

I have been reading this thread for some time and I would like to add my perspective having worked for a mining company then as an external consultant for them.

First of all at the very least get a trade. Try for an electrical trade as it is so much easier to start your own business should you decide to go that way in the future.

I am a heavy vehicle mechanic, did my trade with the RTA (NSW road building and maintaining). I then went to work for a mining company. My first year at the mine as a tradesperson paid $49k. I was 20 years old and this was an amazing amount of money for a 35 hour week 17 years ago. I worked for the company for 10 years then decided I had had enough. I worked as a maintenance planner for my last 3 years there and my last year’s salary was $74k for a 40 hour Monday to Friday job no overtime. That role now pays $102 + five weeks holiday and $2.5K towards private health.

I moved to Adelaide 6 years ago and had a crack at running my own business then got bored with that (too much work not enough money or holidays) and started working for a company as an external consultant for two large mining companies. I resigned last week and have moved to Melbourne. I have been contacted by a couple of ex-workmates who have offered me work as a planner for $115K. Now here is the thing, it’s good money but I don’t know if I could go back to that lifestyle.It’s a residential role which means no FIFO so you end up being stuck in a town full of CUB’s and Mogans paying huge amounts of rent and sitting at home after work because there is not much to do other then drink beer.

The fact that you guys are on whirlpool means you are at least 80% more intelligent then the average miner/loader or truck driver. You guys are not going to be able to talk to any of these people unless it’s about football, pig shooting or the country singer that was popular a few years ago (not Dwight or Keith, the other guy)

I was fortunate that my interest in computers allowed me to get a nice office job that still paid reasonably well but there were so many guys that never set foot inside a TAFE again after they completed their apprenticeships who would die if they had to work for a private company on the average wage when the next downturn arrives.

Sure go and work for a mining company, make some decent cash and get out but make sure you have a plan and stick to it. Go in as a tradeperson or professional and you will have a good time and have decent exit options, go in as an uneducated labourer when you are young and you will regret it later in life if you want to move to civilization and find that you are going to have to work in some factory, probably shift work for less then your mates that stayed in Uni or got themselves a trade.

Boo

Junior001 writes...

Success is measured by the size of your wallet NOT by your education level.
I'm sorry you feel that way as it's a very shallow outlook on life. I wonder how you'd fare if your job was suddenly taken away from you?

To me it's the other way around and if you happen to earn decent money while being intellectually stimulated then you've got a good thing going.

I wouldn't do your job, even for that wage. Having a wealthy brain is much more important to me than having a wealthy wallet.

Wealth is a byproduct of success. Anyone chasing the mighty dollar are fooling themselves.

People seem to be skipping over the fact that, sure, some people they might know may be earning big bucks on crappy jobs and have been FOR YEARS. That usually means that they've started low and worked their way up and are probably extremely good at their job now and probably have the enviable task of training the new monkeys, so that high pay packet is justified. All jobs require a certain degree of skill, the difference is whether or not they can train you on the job or if you need prior knowledge(gained through getting an degree/certificate/diploma/trade/t­ icket/license/whatever). Its a fact of life that you will have to start somewhere and work your way up, the danger of getting entrenched in an "unskilled" job is that when the time comes that you want to get out and do something else you have to start back at square number one, because 5-10 years of mopping floors or being a factory line numpty aren't tradeable skills except for another "monkey" job that will guarantee zero job satisfaction.

EDIT: Might add that I know a fella who drives buses, earns 58k,single, lives in a dingy flat($95/week), and always seems to be broke, maxed out his credit card and a hefty car loan hanging over his head. He doesn't drink or gamble but he sure as hell doesn't know the first thing about managing his own finances. Someone said it earlier, money doesn't necessarily make you wealthy ;)

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Anyone chasing the mighty dollar are fooling themselves.

How true but people cant see it.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Anyone can leave their job at any time. I've got highly paid qualified accountants here leaving to work as chefs just cuz they feel like it.


lol why would they quit accounting to be a chef? Maybe they want to be a 'celebrity chef'

These days, I think job satisfaction is extremely important as its not all just about money. I worked for a big company for awhile and was on about 41k which I thought was pretty good as I was just one of the call centre staff. But I didn't enjoy always have to deal with customer's complaints about various topics or issues. And the worst part is I was already hoping the weekend arrive when its only Monday. On top of that, I wasn't making lots of sales like others do which means I don't get any commission. So it makes the job felt even more of a drag. So after a month of doing the job, I resigned and now back in the job market looking for something that has nothing to do with call centre cos I really don't like it. (saying that, its really the last option. I would prefer to do something like packing paper boxes for $29.60/hr as someone here mentioned before. hahaha!!!)

Junior001 writes...

Success is measured by the size of your wallet NOT by your education level.

You have to be kidding? That's entirely subjective to each individual.

huplescat writes...

Having a wealthy brain is much more important to me than having a wealthy wallet

OMFG!!!!!!! Whatever!!!!!!!

Life is SOLEY about money and if you have more money than another person that makes you a BETTER person than them - it makes you a person of more importance.

The sad thing is 90% of people in the world will spend the rest of their lives being eyeball deep in debt, while working 50hr weeks and having very little or no net worth. Sad pathetic losers who don't deserve to live!!!!!!

People who haven't achieved finance success in this life are nothing but worthless pieces of garbage!!!!!!

Money is the ONLY medium for determining how successful a person is.

peace

Junior001 writes...

Life is SOLEY about money and if you have more money than another person that makes you a BETTER person than them - it makes you a person of more importance.

how much more money do i need to be important?

Is there a scale?

Junior001 writes...

Life is SOLEY about money and if you have more money than another person that makes you a BETTER person than them - it makes you a person of more importance.

Thats right... do you know who mother theresa is? or princess Diana? how rich were there? would you say they were of less importance than say... Bill Gates? or Steve Jobs?

If money was so important, look at the history books, people are not remembered by the "size of their wallets".

The sad thing is 90% of people in the world will spend the rest of their lives being eyeball deep in debt, while working 50hr weeks and having very little or no net worth. Sad pathetic losers who don't deserve to live!!!!!!

Going through Uni can teach you simple skills that most would not have gain by themselves. It will cultivate your own learning style and ability (which you would need to learn new things ALL THE TIME so you can earn more than the next misguided fool), being able to connect and socialise with strangers, and having a more balanced and broader view of the world.

People who haven't achieved finance success in this life are nothing but worthless pieces of garbage!!!!!!

Money is the ONLY medium for determining how successful a person is.

You know people who only focus on the dollar value cannot see far, there are so many more indicators of success, if you always chase the extra few dollars, and miss the big picture you will most probably end up as one of those "Sad pathetic losers", if you have not already.

Your friends and family must be very proud of the way you think!

Good luck, you will need it

Junior001 writes...

How important you are in society IS NOT measured by how educated you are, it is measured by how much money you have. An "unskilled" worker who earns over $250k a year is a person of more importance than a doctor who earns $150k a year.

Sad pathetic losers who don't deserve to live!!!!!!

worthless pieces of garbage!!!!!!

I don't care how important I am in society's eyes (since when did it matter?), as long as I can pay my rent, get some savings into my account and not have to live on the streets. Its a bit harsh to call someone a worthless piece of garbage just because they aren't fabulously wealthy.

Money doesn't buy happiness, there are a lot of rich but insecure and unhappy people out there.

I dont have a lot of money, i dont live in the best house, or best street or best suburb in the best area, but I have a girlfriend who makes me happy, i have a job that is good enough for my needs and which i dont need to think about when I clock off each arvo. The only worry in my life at the moment is my self created landscaping mess in the back yard... but it keeps me busy. And the baby that is on the way doesnt worry me a bit, it makes me happy too. Hell, not even the mortgage bothers me that much.

Just a lowly, unskilled electrical assembler.

Life is good.

shanec writes...

Just a lowly, unskilled electrical assembler.

Life is good.

That pretty much sums it up. Happiness is key. You can't take money with you, it can be a means to an ends...but what ends?

studiorambo writes...

That pretty much sums it up. Happiness is key. You can't take money with you, it can be a means to an ends...but what ends?

That's right, you can't. You spend it on endless travel and wipe the smile off the kids and grandkids faces as you spend their inheritance living it up :)

Money can't buy dignity or respect

Nor intelligence it would seem.

lol

studiorambo writes...

You've really outdone yourself with that display of intelligence.

Left your sense of humor home today I see :)

QuangDai writes...

sure money can buy anything

Not so... there are things that are not for sale for _any_ price.

Don't believe me?

Try rocking up and ask how much the crown jewels of England will cost to buy, or how much is the Mona Lisa?

Junior001 writes...

Money CAN BUY EVERYTHING.

Except love, apart from buying someone who will say they love you.

Anyone who spends their life chasing the almighty dollar is running the race of a wasted life.

Why doing I get the impression that you are a regular member who created this account to take the piss/troll.

jabiru658 writes...

Left your sense of humor home today I see :)

I had to pawn it at cash converters to buy some happiness.

QuangDai writes...

sure money can buy anything, when Junior001 ask his mum, mum do u want to sleep with him if Junior001 give you $1000, Junior001's mum say no, and Junior001 ask mum again, what about 1 million dollars, mum say yes, you see dear Junior001 in theory your mum is your mum but in practical she is a whore because she love money like you.

hahaha! Thats a real thump to the heart. Dont know how poor Junior001 will handle that.

I think I should also call myself Senior007. ROFL!!!

Why? Because Im Bond, James Bond.

shanec writes...

Except love, apart from buying someone who will say they love you.

Close enough is good enough. Friend of mine's got a trophy fiance, he's disgustingly happy with the situation.

jabiru658 writes...

Try rocking up and ask how much the crown jewels of England will cost to buy, or how much is the Mona Lisa?

By the way, my superb Disco dancing ability is also something money can't buy. haha!

hang on, can't you buy Mona Lisa with lots of money?

at&me writes...

Close enough is good enough. Friend of mine's got a trophy fiance, he's disgustingly happy with the situation.

now that's some funny stuff. how much is a trophy fiance?

Disco Man writes...

now that's some funny stuff. how much is a trophy fiance?
Quite cheap in this part of the world. He's retired and his pension is 4 or 5x a good income.

She gets what's left when he croaks, given that he's 71 it's probably only a decade away, during which time he gets to play with a cute little 23 year old every night.

That's a bad thing, really. And I've seen a lot of these happening. The bad part is whether you like it or not, the female only go for the old guy purely because of their money. Which would make them Missy001, hahahaha!!!!

It happens all the time here. It's hard to really blame anyone... if I was a young lady looking at a life of hard work for $200 - $400 a month I'd do it too. If I was an old man looking at a lonely existance for your last X years I'd do it too.

It's worse being my age (27) and rich by their standards.

Disco Man writes...

can't you buy Mona Lisa with lots of money?

It's _not_ for sale, it's classified as a national treasure.

Think this has gone way off the original discussion.

Thread Closed.