Whirlpool

Hi everyone,

Im a heavy downloader and have been leaving my pc on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for a long long time. I was curious to know how much electricity the average pc and modem left on 24 hours a day would use.

Been getting very large electricity bills, and seeing as though my pc and modem are by far the most used appliances in the household, I would assume these would use up most of it. Havent really cared too much because I dont really see the point in utilising a 1.5 mbit broadband connection to full potential unless I can d/l overnight.

But apparently according to my parents we received a letter and a visit from someone from the electricity problem, saying thats our usage is a bit of a problem and its like that of an office and the power was shutdown the other night because of an overload or something.

All Im using is 1 pc and modem (ffs!!), which I honestly didnt think was all that much of a problem whatsoever. If anyone can shed some light on this or any similar experiences I would really appreciate it, as I really dont want to cut my dling addiction in half at all, it would almost kill me, lol.

btw. Im new here so apologies if this has been discussed b4 or if im askin newb stuff, oh and im running an amd 300 and ATX350W power supply, and like 7 hdd's (would this affect it at all).

An average idle (which is basically what it will be when downloading) PC will use around 50-100W.

EDIT: That's without a monitor which I assume would be off.

average PC, say 150W including a 17" CRT. Lower if is at idle, say 50-100W.

Power costs about 13c per kw/h, so your 100W 24/7 is costing 31.2 cents/day or $2-19 a week.

How much was your power bill ? I doubt your PC is causing a power problem due to overloading.

I'm looking at a power bill close to $1500 this quarter - thanks to 4 children, lots of heaters and lots of showers.

forum-replies.cfm?t=513559

Take a read of that.

Electricity bill per 3 months has roughly been on average $350 per 3 months.

$350 ! I wish I had a power bill that small.

The 7 hdds you've got don't add much to the equation either.

my power bill over summer is about $650, winter about $350.
airconditioning is my main culprit, PC's are minor....i run 4 PC's (large family)

Farout thats cheap, this household pulls in bills in excess of $1,100
edit: bills not bulls lol

:O

I agree with everyone else... I don't think your PC is causing too much of a problem. I have my machine on 24/7 and my quarterly bill is around $200.

Oh and the electricity company won't contact you if you only have a bill of $350 a quarter... so your parents are probably pulling your leg.

I believe they do contact you if your usuage jumps up a lot though (I believe police use this method to catch people with hidden hydroponics setups!).

$350 for 3 months.. noway you would be contacted over that maybe if ur bill went from 350 to 2000 you might get contacted... there bsing you

XP3200+
9800 PRO vid card
120GB WD harddrive
2 DVD drives
Water cooling system
5 80 mm fans
1 120mm fan
17" LCD monitor

163.2W system at idle
211.2W Running 3DMark 01
Hard drive activity adds 5W to power usage
LCD monitor uses 2.4W

to lower my power bill (was $300 per quater), I got a cheap second hand laptop to be my download box.

it means that my main machine (and 7 hdd) are off for over 2/3's of the time (about 5 hours week days, 12 hours weekends).

even with the d/l machine running 24/7, the power bill dropped $50 per quarter.

the biggest users of power (in ruf order) are
electric heaters
electric hot water units
a/c units
old fridges
ect

an idea would eb to remove as many of the drives as possible as drives that do not power down use in the order of 20 watts wach, so each 5 is a 100W light left on 24/7. external cases are a good option.

My PC consumes  273 watts.

274 watts.

My last power bill was $140 two months :)

     volts    amps    watts   
PC     230    0.66    151.8   
CRT    230    0.53    121.9   

               total    =  273.7 watts

   

I can't see one PC causing a power problem at night. Far more likely for a heater, hot water service, or stove to trip the power. As if any convential PC could draw enough power to trip a circuit breaker w/out catching fire.

the 7 hard drives (plus whatever fans you have cooling them) would add a little to the power usage. 5W x7 = 35w vs only 5W for one hard drive. The real killer is the 3d cards in modern PCs up to 65W, that and any extra devices like neons and water cooling.

Add ~15% to any numbers people list for parts to take into account power conversion losses in the PSU.

If you want to save power try the following:
1) unplug any devices your not using (powered speakers, monitor, VCR, TV etc)
These devices can draw as much power in the 18 hours they are in standby as in the few hours you are actually using them.
2) enable spin down mode for those 7 hard drives.
3) replace light globes with fluro versions.
4) get dedicated download/internet machine (see mine below for example)

My download/internet box:
sempron 2300+ socket A
2x 256 meg ram
Nforce2 motherboard (onboard gforce4mx, sound, network etc)
DVD ROM drive
320 gig hard drive (you know why)
internal 56k modem
Antec Neo HE PSU 85% efficient
I hacked together the stock heatsink and PSU to use same 12cm fan, it was easy as the PSU sits right next to the CPU and had to be modded to fit the case anyway.

compare this machine with my server/3d setup, which acts like a room heater in winter. 550w psu, ati 9800, 1 gig ram, 3 hard drives, 2 dvd drives, 7 fans (2 in PSU alone)

DiscoDad writes...

I'm looking at a power bill close to $1500 this quarter - thanks to 4 children, lots of heaters and lots of showers.

Some poor dude in Africa probably won't that much in their entire life...

I've been looking for reliable information on this exact thing for months. Thanks people...
For ordinarly devices/appliances you can just read the rating, but seems computers
can be an issue..

There are two ways of finding out exact readings however:
1. A "clamp" these are pretty expensive, around $230. You can make a simple version by wrapping wire around a cable, hooking it up to a multi meter, not sure of the exact details because I didnt follow it up - was a little to inaccurate for me. I'm sure there are some sparkies on here that might be able to enlighten us on either of these two.

2. Dick smith have a kit, for around $240...you plug your device in to it, then plug it into the power (I believe). Supposed to be pretty accurate.
Jaycar however are expecting to sell an item much cheaper. It looks like a digital 240v timer. You use it in a similar fashion. It tells you statistics such as current use, last 24 hours, etc. Good thing about this one is its only $40. Bad thing is they were supposed to have it in stock by 1 june...no go, latest is early august. I asked who there supplier was, or at least a name of the actual item, but the guy refused..I was pretty keen to source it as soon as possible.

I reckon $40 is a good cost to track down those household/office items that might be causing high bills.

Hope this information is worthwhile.

I find www.silentpcreview.com to have good guides on a range of different "typical" PC setups from high-end to basic, including PSU (in)efficiency losses.

edit: It's this page that you probably want to look at first.

Unlikely to be a PC and modem. Are you sure no one is running a hydroponics set up in the roof with big lights?

This time of year, heaters are likely to be your biggest energy users. Big aircons sometimes need to go on 3 phase to help balance out the street's load.

Your parents are pulling your leg, as stated above the computer is using no where near enough power to warrant a complaint.

Next time your parents bring it up tell them to cut down on their showers and you might give the PC a break every now and then.

My solution to the power query (although a wife who has a love of long showers and baths - uses the ducted AC as climate control and thinks clothes driers should be an essential anytime of year, doesn't help) is to have a laptop in a docking station for DLs have it running Virtual Server with an all-in-one linux distro for domain authentication, limited email and web page serving etc., and to have a NAS box (DNS-300) with 300Gb purely for storage.

I have another dedicated rig purely for backing up data and is only on when doing backups.

The latest addition is a Mediagate MG-35 which now holds various DL's.

Bought my power bill down about $60 a quarter from my old setup (and there is an extra bar fridge running now as well).

Worth the expense to setup - had budgetted about 1 year to recoup cost of DNS-300 which seems to be about right so far.

EDIT: SP

$1500 for the quarter..... shite.....

OK, we have 3 kids, 3 desktops, one laptop, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer, large screen TV, 2 door fridge with water and ice maker, gas heating and gas hot water and I'm complaining about $70 per month for electricity (actually less as we pay by the month) AC may be used 1 to 3 times per summer in Vic., if at all.

I must say that any appliance we do or have purchased must be energy efficient, be it electricity, gas or water consumption.

Also, if its not being used it gets switched off - regardless

All I can say is WOW...........

We are lookign at about $750 this quarter.

we usualy get $500 a quarter worth of power bill in our household.
2x desktops, 3x laptops, 1 2door fridge, 1 air con-rarely turned on in summer.
1 CRT 68cm TV, washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher... mmm thats basicaly all the major appliances...and no heaters in winter.
oh and 6 people in our family so 6 showers in the evening and 6 in the morning.

Haven't got the bill yet, but there's two split system aircons running most days, electric hot water, heatlights in both upstairs bathrooms ( whenever I walk past the main bathroom, they're left on by the last child to wander in there ), and 78 lightglobes, with the main rooms on during the day ( 5x40W globes in lounge, dining, master bedroom, 3x60W globes in rumpus, 450W of globes in kitchen/family ) and a dryer and washing machine that runs twice a day, dishwasher runs 1-2 times/day, 3 x PCs ( 2 with dual monitors ) and a server on 24/7, oil filled column heaters in kids rooms and rumpus, fridge, freezer, 3 biggish TVs, 2kW electric fireplace etc etc.

oh, and trying to teach 9yo son that 'shower' doesn't mean having the taps on full blast, and to turn lights off when leaving a room, and the fridge is not a display cabinet and shut that door now !!!!

Must do a walkaround and count up how much power all lights draw if all on.

Had to get sparky out last week to replace main power switch - the screwdown cable connection had melted due to high current and old age.

Fusebox has a 100A main switch, with 5 x 20A power circuits and 3 x 10A light ccts, plus stove and 2 aircon ccts.

stuey1 writes...

oh and 6 people in our family so 6 showers in the evening and 6 in the morning

What happens between the evening and morning that requires a shower ?

On a side note, Greenies would have a freak at the power usage by many people here. Extremely extravagant usage, our power is too cheap.

There is no way renewable energy sources can supply this sort of power if everyone did it.

No way!!

Watts is power used in one hour right?

Bara-suishou writes...

Watts is power used in one hour right?

No

Well, not by itself.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt-hour

Bara-suishou writes...

Watts is power used in one hour right?

A kilo Watt is 1000 Watt swiched on for 1 hour or 2000 Watt on for 1/2 hour etc.

Sorry, I amend,

1 kWh is 1000 W switched on for 1 hour, etc.

er, basically what I said was correct. 60 Watts Globe uses 60 Watts in one hour

edit: admend that, maybe my question wasn't clear

I guess the only difference lies in the Watt/hour as opposed to the Watt (by itself)

fabricator writes...

2) enable spin down mode for those 7 hard drives.

how you do that?

Bara-suishou writes...

er, basically what I said was correct. 60 Watts Globe uses 60 Watts in one hour

No

A watt and watt-hour are different things.

DiscoDad writes...

I'm looking at a power bill close to $1500 this quarter - thanks to 4 children, lots of heaters and lots of showers.

OMG..i didn't believe this when i first read it! :O

1000 watts or 1 kw used for 1 hour = 14.71 cents (going by AGL's prices)
so 1 watt per hour .01471 of a cent per hour
ie. an example would be a 150 watt computer idle would cost 2.2065 cents to run per hour x 24 = 52.9 cents x 31 days = $16.41 x 3 months = $49.23 per quarter to run.
Thats if left on continuously 24/7 for 3 months idle

another example easier to follow is a 1000watt flood light left on continuously would cost 14.71 cents per hour to run
14.71 x 24 x 31 x 3 = $328.32 for the quarter :-)

I just checked my last two quarterly power bills - $111 and $136. I guess I don't have to worry too much :-). I turn my computers off at night (but leave the ADSL modem and other network equipment running).

Are u sure that your parents dont have a hydro setup somewhere in the house?!

jumanji writes...

Are u sure that your parents dont have a hydro setup somewhere in the house?!

Maybe in the cupboard that they have forbidden access too with the light shining from under the door.....

:P

Hmm interesting. I actually use a laptop as my downloading machine. Less energy consumption and noise from case fans.

I'm not sure how you'd factor this in but if you use a poor quality power supply you'd be losing energy to heat production in the power supply as well.

Get a Clipsal Cent-A-Meter ( buy it from any AGL shop )
You connect it to your main power cable in the meter box ( if you dont know what your doing you must get an electrician to do it! )
It dispays what the current power usage for your house is + cost/hour and Greenhouse gas created ( if case you give a sh*t )

They are $150 ( or about $190 for 3 phase use )

www.agl.com.au/aglnew/yo...cent-a-meter.htm

You'd be surprised what stuff costs to run!

DiscoDad writes...

I'm looking at a power bill close to $1500 this quarter - thanks to 4 children...

Suggest you have them DNA tested, you may be entitled to support, failing that consider joining the circus or a retirement village.
The government should impose a levy on such high home usage, why should low energy users be subjected to a nuclear reactor to cater for high energy users demands. A levy may encourage some of the community to consider replacing energy inefficient appliances if they would save in the long run.

This is not criticism of DiscoDad but of high energy use in general.

mgf909 writes...

Get a Clipsal Cent-A-Meter ( buy it from any AGL shop )

Excellent!
I think it would be money well spent for any home, as long as it's accurate and assists in reducing consumption.
If you are using one, are they difficult for the average home handyman to install.

Woah.... and I thought our power bill was bad!!

Four desktops on 24/7, one server on 24/7, halogen lighting, dryer, couple of quartz heaters used occasionally, TV &/or projector on 12/7, and many an all-night party (leaving lights/music/heating/projector on till 10am the next day...) - yet we only average about $300/qtr.

Masa writes...

If you are using one, are they difficult for the average home handyman to install

Piece of cake to install....you basically just clip the sensor around the active power cable after the main switch. It is wireless so you leave the transmitter inside the meter/distribution board case.

That said....
Dont even attempt to do this if you dont know what your doing!!! You risk killing yourself so get someone qualified to do it for you!!

hmmmm I cant imagine my computer being cheep to run.... now that I read about so many people converting to laptops for download severs I might try myself

How bad would 10 hdd's (never powering down) a dual core processor and 2 6800gt's be (not to mention the rest of the shit inside my pc)...... oh its on 24 / 7

***please be kind..... I know it will be bad but put me down nicely***

Masa writes...

The government should impose a levy on such high home usage,

They do, you pay for what you use, so he pays $1500 a quarter, and you pay $200 a quarter.

I think the rates slowly increase anyway for "usage blocks", the first 1500kwH are cheaper, the next a bit more, etc (same as water now).

didnt we have a thread on this the other day

www.synergyenergy.com.au.../Study_Area.html

Xtreme Warz writes...

How bad would 10 hdd's (never powering down) a dual core processor and 2 6800gt's be (not to mention the rest of the shit inside my pc)...... oh its on 24 / 7

check this out it may be of help

www.extreme.outervision....sucalculator.jsp

I had a guess at you system components with a power consumption of 613 W.

mgf909 writes...

Get a Clipsal Cent-A-Meter ( buy it from any AGL shop )

Alternatively to calculate power consumption of anything you want to:

go to your power meter with a stopwatch and see how long it takes for the wheel to do 1 or 10 or whatever revolutions.

Switch on the appliance in question and do the same test again.

With some maths and a formula you can convert your readings to instantaneous power consumption.

You can do this for many appliances as long as you measure before and during running it. (based on the assumption that not any other appliances - like the fridge - switch on during measurements)

Masa writes...

The government should impose a levy on such high home usage, why should low energy users be subjected to a nuclear reactor to cater for high energy users demands.

Very good point, $1500 dollars for 3 months is simply ridiculous amount of energy consumption, OK you have a lot of children, you get a slight reprieve from me but you should really look at your power consumption and see what you can do to reduce it.

I'm a single guy and I spend approximately $200 per quarter for my winter bill, and this for me is indulgent.

All my globes are those new energy bulbs.

If you haven't already got it I would be installing those piezo electric instant hot water heaters Rinnai V or something like this, you can digitally control the water temp with controllers, it most probably save you a small fortune.

If it's true what they say about those Rinnai V hot water heaters you could save up to 30% on the your gas bill thats around $500, the heater would quickly pay for itself.

My place is about $180 a quarter.

1 PC on full time (not the monitor) with associated LAN and ADSL equipment.
another 3 PC's on at various times.
Your usual TV, fridge, washing machine, Hot water, electric cooking plates and a dozen lights at carious times.

That's for 2 people.

EDIT: agree with the laptop idea for downloads and always on - must be cheap to run.

Why couldn't the OP search first...

forum-search.cfm?s=519318&r=1726313

iMoose

M3Zephyer writes...

Very good point, $1500 dollars for 3 months is simply ridiculous amount of energy consumption,

It is this sort of consumption which creates the need for more power stations, that's where the big money is, building those things.

That $1500 could be easily reduced to $1000 which is still high.

Obviously they are prepared to spend that but is is an activity we should be discouraging much more vigorously.

Good point, and I totally agree. :)

Interesting topic, I thought id share a similar experience a friend of mine had.

He had an rep or someone come to his house from the electricity company, saying the exact same thing - how his house (2 bedroom shack the size of my shoebox) was using the same amount of power as a small office.

The power company shut off the power temporarily due to an overload of some kind, and they started to investigate.

Anyways, it turns out that someone had ILLEGALLY tapped into his electricity of his house, and was using it next door. Story got more interesting, when the power company found out that the people who had skimmed the power - were using it to power VERY large lights in the house- to grow "special happy plants" 24x7.

Apparently the power company gets several similar cases of this happening each week. Weird huh!

ChristoBIT writes...

Apparently the power company gets several similar cases of this happening each week. Weird huh!

Not really weird at all. Although the smarter ones tap the power before it reaches the meter so that it isn't shown on a particular meter. This helps reduce the chances of them being caught as high power usage (over a certain amount) depending on type of area (housing, commercial, etc) is suspicous and often checked.

Watts are watts. As a guide, a computer power supply unit (PSU) is around 350-500W, a 17" CRT monitor takes about 110W (ACER Specs), a 17" LCD monitor 35W. So assume average computer load 75% of 500W PSU with CRT = 485W, or about 7c per hour as a rough guide. Extrapolate from these figures to get a little closer to your situation

11T.Co writes...

So assume average computer load 75% of 500W PSU

I don't think that assumption is realistic or even close.

Anyway, I've got a little champ of a gateway machine by way of a P3 750. When not under load (which is most of the time), the CPU stays throttled down and sits at 94MHz which is a nice power saver. Ok, that's only saving 20 watts or so, such was the consumption of chips back then. It all counts ;-)

My gateway machine - a 1U rackmount Dell PowerEdge 350 server with PIII 550 uses 38W total as measured by my UPS. (the CPU is only 15W)!

M3Zephyer writes...

If it's true what they say about those Rinnai V hot water heaters you could save up to 30% on the your gas bill thats around $500, the heater would quickly pay for itself.

yea there great ..only down side is if you have a black out no hot water, but apart from that thumbs up

Tetsuo writes...

I don't think that assumption is realistic or even close.

It's an estimate for an average modern pc running more than 1 HDD, a DVD burner, network card & so on; you can take a look at this link to get a better estimate for your machine: www.powerware.com/UPS/se...yWorkStation.asp

Anyway, I've got a little champ of a gateway machine by way of a P3 750. When not under load (which is most of the time), the CPU stays throttled down and sits at 94MHz which is a nice power saver. Ok, that's only saving 20 watts or so, such was the consumption of chips back then. It all counts ;-)

True, earlier PCs had a lower power requirements.

Grubs writes...

My gateway machine - a 1U rackmount Dell PowerEdge 350 server with PIII 550 uses 38W total as measured by my UPS. (the CPU is only 15W)!

Including monitor? This does not sound right.
I just looked at my UPS (1kVA unit) status it says 28% load, that's 280W.

Going back to my previous post where I gave an estimate of needed power (75% of 500W = 375W); if I had a CRT monitor instead of an LCD my load would be 280 + (110-35) = 355W.
My guideline is a rule of thumb trick; if I was to size a UPS I would go higher.

PÿRÓ writes...

yea there great ..only down side is if you have a black out no hot water, but apart from that thumbs up

Good point, I guess you go to work filthy.

Nothing like an 'invigorating' shower on a cold morning.

I know of :P a guy that has a bath once a year, whether he needs it or not, so that wouldn't affect him :P

M3Zephyer writes...

I now a guy that has a bath once a year, whether he needs it or not, so that wouldn't affect him :P

WT o_O

i also have quad-Phosphor 32w Fluorescents in most of the lights to save ( all helps :P )

Trance writes...

But apparently according to my parents we received a letter and a visit from someone from the electricity problem, saying thats our usage is a bit of a problem and its like that of an office and the power was shutdown the other night because of an overload or something.

You're kidding, right? No, seriously? $350 per quarter is our average bill, it certainly will not prompt a visit, letter, or even a telephone call from your Electricity Vendor. So, you can tell your parents to stop feeding you cobblers ;)

For interest, we have electric cooking, hot water, air conditioner (reverse cycle inverter), 2 PC's on 24x7 for that.

Incidentally, your PC will consume as much power in 24 hours as a small electriv fan-heater will in about 1 hour (assuming it's monitor is turned off overnight etc).

11T.Co writes...

Going back to my previous post where I gave an estimate of needed power (75% of 500W = 375W)

No way Jose. I have customers running Dell Poweredge 2600's, with triple SCSI drives, 3 network switches & tape backup drive (no monitor) just a smidgeon under 400w draw. It's been tested & measured :)

I seriously doubt a normal desktop would take 375w in that case :)

Midnight Man writes...

I seriously doubt a normal desktop would take 375w in that case :)

Please read my last post again, it says "estimate", "CRT monitor" & "rule of thumb trick". Look also at websites of UPS sellers & do the calcs on line with their selection tools; you'll see the results will be similar.

There are also enough posts on this forum from people having to upgrade their power supply units to indicate that power requirements for desktops is getting higher.

By the way, I'm curious how the system was tested & measured; was an ammeter used?

have a read here
www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html

Some more power consumption figures here - www.tomshardware.com/200...idia/page40.html

As you can see from that you have to be running something pretty beefy to even get over the 300W mark.

Hey, remember the original post question was about "how much electricity - average PC" and the cost of leaving running 24/7.

It's got to include monitor, modem & so on. Here's another link to help confuse us a little more: www.extreme.outervision....sucalculator.jsp

My second system:
AMD 64 3500+
ATI X850XT
2 DVD burners
2 SATA Hard Drives
Peltier cooler on CPU
DFI Ultra D
Sound Blaster Audigy
1 GB Ram
LCD Fan controller Temp monitor
4 120 mm Fans
1 80 mm Fan
Billion 7300G
1 500W power supply
1 250W powersupply

134.4W at Idle
242.4W running 3dmark03
146.4W running HDTach on one hard drive

All without monitor.
Measured with Amp meter in main cord suppling system.
My 26" LCD screen uses 100.8W

TIMMEE!!! writes...

My 26" LCD screen uses 100.8W

Your not impressing anybody with that screen OK ! :)

Except me :P

TIMMEE,

Couple of things I picked up about that setup. Firstly the peltier cooler, given the energy they use, do you have a measurement with it turned off, i.e. just a fan? Peltier coolers are renowened for using a lot of power.

Secondly, how did you test this exactly? Multimeter? Did you also test the voltage across the output of the power point with the system turned on? i.e. you just didn't assume 240V?

If anybody wants to check their PCs power consumption here is an interesting link:

Sorry guys !

Thanks Pyro :) Hmm, now what was it again - blue or brown is active ?

M3Zephyer writes...

If anybody wants to check their PCs power consumption here is an interesting link:


May I suggest no one does that. Firstly its illegal if you are not an electrician, secondly the cheapie DSE/jaycar multimeters aren't exactly the safest things in way of mains currents. Thirdly, an internet site isnt exactly where you should be learning about AC voltages and commercial power systems to apply to Australian power supply.

Also, whoever wrote that article is extremely irresponsible to be writing how to do something for all to see without even considering the needed electrical circuit background and practical electricity knowledge needed.

Secondly, they didn't even do it right considering they are writing a guide. You need to take voltage and current - it isn't enough to presume it is just 115V/240V.

PS - even stupider is the guy doing it with what looks like a coffeee cup of water nearby. Whoever wrote that is a pretty stupid amateur.

PPS - Just showed the site to a mate who is also doing electrical eng, and his comment was that the guy "deserved to die fry" given his unsafe practices.

M3Zephyer writes...

Thanks Pyro :) Hmm, now what was it again - blue or brown is active ?

Dude ..hehe red/brown is active and black/blue is neutral ;)

Don't call me dude, that's a camels .... :) <grin> Were never gunna let let that word go are we - he he he :P

adprom writes...

Couple of things I picked up about that setup. Firstly the peltier cooler, given the energy they use, do you have a measurement with it turned off, i.e. just a fan? Peltier coolers are renowened for using a lot of power.

Secondly, how did you test this exactly? Multimeter? Did you also test the voltage across the output of the power point with the system turned on? i.e. you just didn't assume 240V?

On the first point - no I don't have a figure for the power usage of the peltier alone,but it would not be real high because the peltier is controlled to stay above the dew point so it sits at about 25C so doesn't draw a real lot of power.
Secondly-Yes I used a good quality calibrated digital multimeter and I also measured the voltage at the power point.

Cool - may I ask what peltier you used, how effective it is and how you mounted it? I would like to use a peltier, but the issue is that many use a bit too much current to just be added on to the PSU.

www.pccasegear.com/prod2134.htm
This is the peltier I use it keeps my AMD64 3500+ which I have at 2300MHz running at 24-25C at idle and the maximum temp I have seen is 38C at full load and that is running it on the Quiet setting the Cool setting keeps it even cooler but the fan gets a bit louder.The only change I made was to fit a 120mm fan via an 80 to 120 adapter to keep things nice and quiet.The price was $69 when I got mine.I also bought 2 more when they went to $48 now they are $35 its a steal.I highly recommend them :)
edit: It mounts just like a normal heatsink.

Mainsequence writes...

2. Dick smith have a kit, for around $240...you plug your device in to it, then plug it into the power (I believe). Supposed to be pretty accurate.

do you ahve a kit number for this kit you mentioned?

I did find this on their web sit, kit K7217, which is a "Energy Meter", but it is $127

peltier are a simpe device, but they do use 1Watt of power for every watt of heat that moved. they are not suitable for a "low" power system, but as for performance, you need one that is rated higher than the peak power output of your cpu or it will be more of a problem then a helper.

May I suggest no one does that. Firstly its illegal if you are not an electrician, secondly the cheapie DSE/jaycar multimeters aren't exactly the safest things in way of mains currents. Thirdly, an internet site isnt exactly where you should be learning about AC voltages and commercial power systems to apply to Australian power supply.

Really ? 0_O

M3Zephyer writes...

Really ? 0_O

Yeh - no probs about that :)

This is the exact issue with those sites; that they go around giving todo guides etc without the appropriate warnings and back information. Unless if you have dealt a bit with electronics, you probably don't know the issues and treat it as a safe thing to do.

Btw, I was criticizing the site, not your post. You were quite obviously just linking there for the good of the topic :)

adprom writes...

This is the exact issue with those sites; that they go around giving todo guides etc without the appropriate warnings and back information

warnings as in ?

PÿRÓ writes...

warnings as in ?

Electricity kills people who aren't qualified! Electricty kills!

More to the point playing with mains electricity in Australia is illegal if not qualified.

At uni, we have done some fairly high voltage stuff, and we all had to do a safety lab and sign a declaration to even touch the stuff over 50V.

adprom writes...

Electricity kills people who aren't qualified! Electricty kills!

it kills people no matter if they are qualified or not ..and I'm pretty sure they put that warning up ? might be wrong

edit
*** Warning: AC current is very dangerous and can be lethal if not handled properly. Neither twistedmods.com nor the author of this article are responsible for any loss or damage of property or life that may occur***

about the only thing i can pick up that would be different in australia is its 240v here and the Hot wire is red/brown where they state its blue

More to the point playing with mains electricity in Australia is illegal if not qualified.

might have to check up on this ..but playing around with a extension lead isn't illegal
you can even make your own up ..but again i might be wrong on that

At uni, we have done some fairly high voltage stuff, and we all had to do a safety lab and sign a declaration to even touch the stuff over 50V.

voltage doesn't kill you ..amps does

edit ..other wise we would have millions of dead animals from the 20,000 volts that goes through an electric fence ;)

PÿRÓ writes...

voltage doesn't kill you ..amps does
correct!

adprom writes...

More to the point playing with mains electricity in Australia is illegal if not qualified.

I beleive that in some states you don't have to be a qualified electrician to wire your own house. NSW you most definitely MUST be a qualified electrician to so much as bare a wire that connects to 240V.

11T.Co writes...

you can take a look at this link to get a better estimate for your machine: www.powerware.com/UPS/se...yWorkStation.asp

I'll forgive them for overestimating my setup because they are trying to sell me a UPS ;-)

Edit: Just getting back to your formula, (75% x Power Supply max), power consumption is unrelated to the maximum rating of your power supply except for the fact that it shouldn't be more (or close).

I recently swapped out my daughter's generic 200 watt power supply and put in a brand-name 450 watt number. I'm expecting the power consumption to slightly drop due to the better efficiency of the new power supply. Your formula would estimate the power usage to double (x 2.5).

PÿRÓ writes...

voltage doesn't kill you

It sure is fun though ;) He He He ...... <insert maniacal laughter>

phoenixthesmeg writes...

I beleive that in some states you don't have to be a qualified electrician to wire your own house. NSW you most definitely MUST be a qualified electrician to so much as bare a wire that connects to 240V

no in all states of australia afaik you must be qualified ..but im not 100% on extention leads

PÿRÓ writes...

no in all states of australia afaik

Never used to be but it has been a few years since I did any of coursework for electrical trades. I did the theory part of the first years apprenticeship in 1998 (I didn't have an apprenticeship but was doing the TAFE course stuff)

phoenixthesmeg writes...

I beleive that in some states you don't have to be a qualified electrician to wire your own house.

Not in this country. It's very simple: no electrical licence - no can touch.

PÿRÓ

it kills people no matter if they are qualified or not ..
Yes but the ratio is probably around 3 amateurs for every person employed within the electrical industry.

Tetsuo

Just getting back to your formula, (75% x Power Supply max), power consumption is unrelated to the maximum rating of your power supply except for the fact that it shouldn't be more (or close).
Where did you read that I suggested the estimate should be used with every or any power supply unit? By the way, the input is always greater than the output no matter what because of internal losses (I guess that's what you mean by (or close)).

adprom writes...

Btw, I was criticizing the site, not your post. You were quite obviously just linking there for the good of the topic :)

OK point taken, I probably should have thought it through.

11T.Co writes...

Yes but the ratio is probably around 3 amateurs for every person employed within the electrical industry.

yep that sounds about right :P

PÿRÓ writes...

yep that sounds about right :P

The unfortunate part is that people in the electrical industry are exposed to it all the time and statistically the should have a greater chance of getting hit; however this is not the case & it's the DIY individual who makes up the numbers.

Way off topic. :P

PÿRÓ writes...

it kills people no matter if they are qualified or not ..and I'm pretty sure they put that warning up ? might be wrong

It doesnt make it less irresponsible to post that crap. The amount of unsafe practises in that guide was ridiculous.

about the only thing i can pick up that would be different in australia is its 240v here and the Hot wire is red/brown where they state its blue

Which for people who might try and use that guide, without knowing that, they don;t know what they are doing. If they don't know what they are doing, they shouldn't touch mains.

might have to check up on this ..but playing around with a extension lead isn't illegal

Altering it like that is.

you can even make your own up ..but again i might be wrong on that

No you can't

voltage doesn't kill you ..amps does

Not entirely correct. It is technically the energy that kills you. Voltage across a load causes current. You need the voltage to produce the current to kill you. Voltage and current are directly related, so its not just as simple as saying current kills you. It is the energy disspated across your body (in particular the heart), that kills you.

Consider this - you fall 500m off of a building. You hit the ground and die. What kills you? The height that you fell from? i.e. the potential energy or in electrical terms the voltage? Or how about the speed that you hit the gound - i.e. the current? In fact it is netiher. It is the deceleration once you hit the ground, i.e the resistance. To get the speed (current), you needed the height to get to it (i.e. voltage). Without either of these being high enough, you would not have died.

Now the electric fence 20,000V thing is like falling 500m, however being limited by the speed. This is why things are often rated in kVA (kilovolt amps). It rates the total power a device can output regardless of voltage/current. i.e. a 10kVA device may be able to produce 10,000,000V, but with a current of 1mA.

So if you were to take the current factor out of what kills us. You could give a kVA rating of the typical amount of electrical energy the body can handle. Its just that because the typical resistance of a human body might be 50 ohms, that it takes a certain voltage to cause damage. My point being, it is not one or the other, but because they are linked, both voltage and current that causes damage. In fact it is more accurate to say that it is the low resistance of the human body that kills.

edit ..other wise we would have millions of dead animals from the 20,000 volts that goes through an electric fence ;)

This is only because it is a limited current supply. You need a voltage source which is able to deliver the current.

To be electrocuted requires 2 things:
A voltage source providing a high enough potential difference
The voltage source has to provide a high enough current to dissipate enrgy across your body. This is NOT saying that the current kills you, you need both.

Regardless, it is illegal in australia to play with mains voltages. More importantly that article promotes unsafe acts (water nearyby, electrical taping as a temporary bind FFS!). The reason why you have to be qualified in Australia is so that you know enough about electricity to know how to SAFELY work with it. 99.9% of the people here do NOT have that knowledge. The only ones would be electricians, electrical engineers who have done site work and a few other extras. Not your average computer enthusiast.

Not to mention that article had nothing about grounding, groundloops etc. Wearing safe footwear, appropriate clothing. Using the right tools.

It was completely irresponsible of the author.

adprom writes...

It was completely irresponsible of the author.

yes point taken :)

adprom writes...

that it takes a certain voltage to cause damage. My point being, it is not one or the other, but because they are linked, both voltage and current that causes damage

yes voltage and current are linked of course ..you can die from a voltage as low as 12v yes ?

This is only because it is a limited current supply

which would mean that you need a higher current to cause death ?

PÿRÓ writes...

yes voltage and current are linked of course ..you can die from a voltage as low as 12v yes ?

Well no, because our natural resistance is too high (unless if you intend cutting my chest open first and applying alligotor clips conected from a battery to my heart directly) :P :P :P

which would mean that you need a higher current to cause death ?

I'm not sure how mathematical you are, but basically what we are talking about is the energy to cause death.

This is basically the integral of power over time which can be

E=∫I²R dt
E=∫V²/R dt

This is provided the voltage source can supply the required energy anyway. If it can't, the current won't be as needed, and as a result the voltage will also drop.

^{PS - I know I'm a bit anal over the whole current thing ;)}

An electric shock is usually painful and can be lethal. The level of voltage is not a direct guide to the level of injury or danger of death, despite the common misconception that it is. A small shock from static electricity may contain thousands of volts but has very little current behind it due to high internal resistance. Physiological effects and damage are generally determined by current and duration. Even a low voltage causing a current of extended duration can be fatal. Ohm's Law directly correlates voltage and current for a given resistance; thus, for a particular path through the body under a particular set of conditions, a higher voltage will produce a higher current flow.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock

there are a few factors that come into it also ..not just voltage , current, resistance

adprom writes...

PS - I know I'm a bit anal over the whole current thing ;)

:) yes we are probably going OT a bit to much and would probably be best to leave it at that or take it to whims if you need to ..in any case ..yes playing around with mains power is dangerous and should be left to people that know what there are doing

PÿRÓ writes...

there are a few factors that come into it also ..not just voltage , current, resistance

Yup like time. Also whether it is AC/DC etc. Just reading that now. I'm sure our lecture notes had this material somewhere.

es we are probably going OT a bit to much and would probably be best to leave it at that or take it to whims if you need to

You are runing our fun I tell ya!

es playing around with mains power is dangerous

For those who think otherwise, there are some nice 66kV lines in your area, you know the ones, 30m up on poles! Go and play with that - hehe.

Reminds me of the indian dude who said he couldnt see electricity so he didnt beleive it existed. He sure did after he near killed himself.

adprom writes...

Well no, because our natural resistance is too high (unless if you intend cutting my chest open first and applying alligotor clips conected from a battery to my heart directly) :P :P :P

You'd be safe if the op was done inside an operating theatre as all current sources are protected by 10 mA. RCDs. in those rooms.

Just threw this in to show that some people belonging to the 0.1% minority hang around this forum too & fully support your comments ;)

11T.Co writes...

You'd be safe if the op was done inside an operating theatre as all current sources are protected by 10 mA. RCDs. in those rooms.

RCD's ..false sense of protection ..but yes there are good , as long as you don’t touch active and neutral ;)

PÿRÓ writes...

RCD's ..false sense of protection ..but yes there are good , as long as you don’t touch active and neutral ;)

Hi, just looked in again & agree with comment, unfortunately I don't write the rules but have to follow them. From memory certain hospital areas were either a class A or a class B area; one require 30mA RCDs and the other 10mA (10mA for areas were electrical equipment was likely to come into contact with internal organs). For our own sanity we should trust the hospital will ensure that they know how to keep our organs away from direct active to neutral interface.
I know this is off topics but a little trivia should not hurt.

you will find that most commercial and industrial places will have 10mA RCD's and domestic being 30mA ..in any case it only protects the person form becoming in contact with the active and not active and neutral :)

For all those who aren't sure what earth, neut