Whirlpool

I know ppl on WP including me have gone around this issue before but we've never been able to get a definitive answer.

What are the top 10 ISPs in Australia, going purely by the size of the customer base?

I came across the following article from WP front page news:

australianit.news.com.au...5Enbv%5E,00.html

According telecommunications analyst firm Paul Budde Communications EFTel trails the top five ISPs Telstra (1,800,000), Optus (890,000), iiNet (650,000), Primus (570,000) and TPG (300,000), and second tier providers Veridas, Dodo and TPG.

Well that's a good start!

Top 10 ISPs
1. Telstra 1,800,000
2. Optus 890,000
3. iiNet 650,000
4. Primus 570,000
5. TPG 300,000
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

Who can complete the list? :)

I'd say AAPT would be around 9 or 10

why is veridas so up there?
what number of ISPs to they sell to?

good to see telstra as number 1.
and ofcourse, iiNet in there with a punch too.
not sure my listings, but go ISPS!

Tassiedude writes...

I'd say AAPT would be around 9 or 10

last i heard they had around 100k customers internet mix of broadband and dialup.

Mr.BigPond! writes...

why is veridas so up there?

They have a swag of vISPs. I'm not sure how many, and on their own they wouldn't be big, but combined, they would be of a very respectable size.

good to see telstra as number 1.

What else did you expect :P Telstra's constantly been anti-competative - $29.95 broadband to customers and make the wholesale 256k cost higher, drowning out the competition; calling customers as soon as ADSL is available in their area with a "special" deal and without saying it directly, give them the illusion that they can only get it through Bigpond; hard-to-beat bundling and X months free which can only be done through the cheaper supply costs that Bigpond is privy to; misleading advertising such as "Bigpond - available in more areas" when all they mean is they expanded the amount of DSLAMs, not the impression that Bigpond is available in more areas than other ISPs; the list goes on, I could write a thesis.

iiNet in there with a punch too.

They'll continue to get larger too - I expect them to do some agressive aquisitions in the coming months/years judging from that article.

Westnet is in the top 10 (in Aug 2004) according to this
www.smh.com.au/articles/...ml?from=storyrhs

I'd suspect they fall somewhere 7 or 8.

With some more research, here's what i've found:

www.synectico.com.au/pdf/CompanyProfile.pdf, as of 2003 (so a bit out of date now):

1. Telstra 1.3m
2. Optus 600,000
3. OzEmail 450,000
4. Primus 440,000
5. TPG 300,000
6. AAPT / AOL 260,000
7. iiNet 115,000
8. Dodo 135,000
9. Chariot 112,000
10. Hotkey 76,000

www.pc.gov.au/inquiry/te...munications2.pdf as of 2000 (lol)

Big Pond (Telstra) 600000
OzEmail/UUNet 460000
Cable & Wireless Optus 200000
iPrimus 150000
One.Net (One.Tel) 140000
TPG Internet 135000
AOL/Connect.com (AAPT) 120000
Austar/eisa 91000
Chariot Internet 50000
Pacific Internet 35000

Something of value I did come across is at www.iinet.net.au/about/i...Presentation.pdf which seems to be very current, but I can't find an exact publication date. It does have ADSL2+ stuff so I doubt it is too old. The article in the OP shows Bigpond as having 1,800,000 customers and iiNet's PDF shows 1,750,000 or 2,000,000 if NZ is included. As it is a graph, the numbers are close but not exact:

1. Telstra 1,750,000
2. Optus 750,000
3. iiNet 550,000-650,000 (hard to tell)
4. AAPT 550,000 (again hard to tell)
5. Primus 500,000
6. TPG 250,000
7. Dodo 220,000
8. Chariot 180,000

That is the end of the graph (which can be viewed on page 6 of the PDF)...

Can anyone confirm, or update, or verify, or add to this list? Whirlpool IMHO should keep a tally of the Top 10 ISPs as well as the Top 10 WP ISPs... as it's very hard to find this info on the net.

In terms of ADSL users, Internode and WestNet would be right up there (say 4th and 5h?)

If you are talking about total customer numbers including dial up, wireless, etc then its obviously a bit harder to say...

Edit: Just found this... bit old but it gives you an idea.

www.smh.com.au/articles/...54406225419.html

Viper6 writes...

In terms of ADSL users

Dial-up connections continue to outnumber ADSL connections - Top 10 ISPs are rarely rated by ADSL alone, just like any business isn't rated for a particular aspect. An ISPs customer base is what is most often compared.

Just found this... bit old but it gives you an idea.

Yeah... I was kinda hoping for up to date figures, but I spose i'll just have to keep looking.

Or wait for someone to come along who knows about this sorta stuff... You around Phil? :)

If you wan to pay 75$, you can find out
www.budde.com.au/Reports...erview-1778.html

Internode is a private company and doesn't release data as to how many customers they have. They would definitely be in the top 10.

In Sept. 2005, this claims chariot is Top 10
72.14.203.104/search?q=c...en&ct=clnk&cd=30

with 152,000 users

Fire Dog writes...

with 152,000 users

Chariot never ever have had that many broadband users, never have and never will.

Fire Dog writes...

In Sept. 2005, this claims chariot is Top 10

with 152,000 users

Chariot aquired Alphalink which took them to 180,000 a few months ago. I think they are #8 now... it seems they might be trying to claw some more customers in with their new 40gb ADSL plans.

Viper6 writes...

In terms of ADSL users, Internode and WestNet would be right up there (say 4th and 5h?)

WestNet staff gave their total customer base as just under 150,000 as of last week. Of those, almost 90,000 were ADSL customers. On the following page they describe themselves as 'one of 5th or 6th largest in Australia.' (for ADSL customer base)

I suspect Internode is a fair bit behind that mark, as they've always been much more of a broadband ISP than a dialup provider.

Igneous writes...

I suspect Internode is a fair bit behind that mark, as they've always been much more of a broadband ISP than a dialup provider.

Good point, what this doesn't show is customer plans.

Igneous writes...

I suspect Internode is a fair bit behind that mark, as they've always been much more of a broadband ISP than a dialup provider.

I'll challenge that statement and say that Internode would be easily above Westnet.

Here's my list. (I have no idea about AAPT..)

Telstra
Optus
iiNet
Internode
TPG - Netspace - Westnet (pretty even)
Dodo - AAPT (pretty even)
People Telecom

My reasoning behind the above stats in mostly based around the time the ISP's have actually been in the market and also my own reseller figures.

Internode aren't even in the top ten.

There was a pie graph in the australian a few days ago.

I can only remember 4 isp. 1.telstra 2.optus 3.iinet and 8.was exetel.

ministryofsound writes...

Internode aren't even in the top ten.

What proof do you have that they aren't?

Paul Warren writes...

Here's my list

What do you base that on?

This seems a pretty correct list from the iinet PDF:

1. Telstra 1,750,000
2. Optus 750,000
3. iiNet 550,000-650,000 (hard to tell)
4. AAPT 550,000 (again hard to tell)
5. Primus 500,000
6. TPG 250,000
7. Dodo 220,000
8. Chariot 180,000

ministryofsound writes...

Internode aren't even in the top ten.

Wrong, they don't release figures...what you mean is the report you saw doesn't have them listed.

Here is Mr Hackett's take on the pie chart
forum-replies.cfm?t=487730&ux=6258

Kevin. writes...

What do you base that on?

I've been in the broadband industry for close to 5 years now and as such I've got contacts inside almost every ISP in Australia, not to mention our own research we do in house to stay abreast of who the movers and shakers are.

nb: Unfortunately I have no contacts at AAPT or Exetel and limited contacts at PT.

Kevin. writes...

This seems a pretty correct list from the iinet PDF:

Wrong. How can they provide a list without even having access to the Internodes figures.

Kevin. writes...

I even heard from an ex-employee of an adelaide ADSL2+ company that whilst Adam and co are constantly having to add new ports to their exchanges, Internode often struggle to fill up even their initial ports...

An unnamed source from an unnamed third party claimed Kevin believed anything he was told by another unnamed source from another unnamed third party.

We've been doing a huge number of upgrades both in SA and Interstate (pretty much every exchange - including the regional ones), so you've been told an untruth Kevin.

Matthew Moyle-Croft writes...

so you've been told an untruth Kevin.

Keep telling yourself that ;-)

Kevin. writes...

Keep telling yourself that ;-)

Kevin, I'm the guy who run our DSLAM project. I know precisely where we sit with customer growth, expansion projects etc. We're running a large number of upgrade projects and our customer growth is awesome.

So, I can categorically tell you it's not true.

Paul Warren writes...

also my own reseller figures.

No offence, but your figures would be very much skewed due to the market that you are in.

what a load of waffle, i cant imagine another business where the customers would sit around and debate which company has more customers.

i couldnt care less, i pay for my internet connection, i expect my ISP to deliver the product i am paying for with a reasonable level of customer support. i chose my ISP based on their ability to deliver what i am paying for at a competetive price.

if people think their ISP is better because it has more customers, or even care how many customers the business has they are sadly deluded.

Kevin. writes...

Telstra 1,800,000

That's too high, and I suspect is an old-ish figure that includes wholesale ADSL.

2. Optus 890,000
3. iiNet 650,000
4. Primus 570,000
5. TPG 300,000

You talking dialup or broadband?

I'd say the remainder of the top ten are Chariot, Dodo, AAPT and Westnet, with Netspace, Internode and PeopleTel fighting it out for the last slot, if you're talking total customer base.

Kevin. writes...

4. AAPT 550,000 (again hard to tell)

That's trans-Tasman and includes TNZ. Only a fraction of those would be in Australia.

galumay writes...

if people think their ISP is better because it has more customers, or even care how many customers the business has they are sadly deluded.

Well I wouldn't regard myself deluded but consider size is one important factor when choosing an ISP. I'd certainly stay away from very small ISPs since they're either new and unproven or oldish and not going anywhere. I'm also wary of gorillas since they're frequently complacent and not good value for money.

However, size isn't a major factor in my choice. Things that I consider much more important are: price relative to product and service; openness and integrity of management; staff morale (another indicator of good management); and being innovative without being unreasonably risky.

sickNtired writes...

staff morale

You have got to be joking....

sickNtired writes...

Things that I consider much more important are: price relative to product and service; openness and integrity of management; staff morale (another indicator of good management); and being innovative without being unreasonably risky.

Agreed.

I would be very interested to know the top 10 isp`s.What a shame,however,the fanboys disrupt the thread with my isp has more customers than yours.Pathetic and childish

Viper6 writes...

In terms of ADSL users, Internode and WestNet would be right up there (say 4th and 5h?)

lmao ya have to try and get node in there too funny

dimzi writes...

You have got to be joking....

Why? Why would you not take this into consideration?

I'd feel better knowing my money is going to an ISP with a CEO like Simon Hackett or Michael Malone then an ISP with a CEO like John Russell or the likes.

Deja writes...

You don't give money to anyone

yes you do, part of the cost is profit that ends up in someones pocket

ministryofsound writes...

There was a pie graph in the australian a few days ago.

If anyone cares the graph from the australian (which was looking at broadband only) had:

telstra 42.8%
optus 19%
iinet 6.1%
primus 4.6%
tpg 4.3%
westnet 3.1%
aapt 2.6%
people telecom 2.5%
unwired 1.6%
exetel 1.2%
other 12.2%
= 100%

edit - I expect internode, netspace & comindico (currently in other) to also be around the 3% mark.

Below are the broadband figures that various companies have published themselves, and I have recalculated the % based on my assumptions of the total broadband market.

The Australian % figures were pretty close to mine for most of them.

mainly dec05 reported figures
telstra (bigpond only) 1173000 44.2%
optus (cable & adsl) 496000 18.7%
iinet (australia only) 165000 6.2%
primus 125000 4.7%
tpg ??
westnet 85000 3.2%
internode ??
netspace ??
comindico ??
aapt ??
people telecom 34000 1.3%
unwired 42200 1.6%
exetel 32000 1.2%
other ??
TOTAL 2651200

[TOTAL = telstra (bigpond & wholesale) + optus cable + unwired]

Hello all,

It may assist if I point out that EFTel has 120,000-130,000 active accounts and therefore sits above PeopleTel, Unwired, Exetel, and Internode in terms of total accounts. However, certain companies are broadband-only (or mainly) and may be ahead of EFTel in broadband numbers whilst having fewer customers over-all.

It may also be useful to point to Chariot's announcement today in which that company claims a total of "125,000 active customers." This is a change from Chariot's previous claims regarding "allowed customers," which was a different metric altogether and which we did not think very useful. Further, in their case "customers" may not mean "billable entities." We always speak of "active accounts" as iinet also do now, for the reason that the number of "customers" is always a problematic metric to identify with any accuracy.

Our view of the top 10 ISPs is:

Telstra
Optus
iinet
Primus
TPG
AAPT
Dodo
Westnet
EFTel
Chariot

A Telecommunications Top 10 would be somewhat different, and so would a Broadband Top 10. The Whirlpool Top 10 is different again, but may approximate the Broadband Top 10 (but almost certainly isn't exactly the same).

Regards,

John Lane
General Manager
EFTel Ltd ASX: EFT
www.eftel.com

John Lane writes...

It may also be useful to point to Chariot's announcement today in which that company claims a total of "125,000 active customers."

The rest of the thread was about broadband customers.

mwdmeyer writes...

The rest of the thread was about broadband customers.

This thread is about the Top 10 ISPs by total customer base.

Dial-up connections continue to outnumber broadband connections in Australia.

.Cyclone. writes...

Why? Why would you not take this into consideration?

Well apart from that fact that staff morale can hardly be measured from a couple of employees via a public forum which is used as a marketing and customer service vehicle, I would say that the actual service would be of more importance when choosing an ISP.

dimzi writes...

Well apart from that fact that staff morale can hardly be measured from a couple of employees via a public forum which is used as a marketing and customer service vehicle

I'm not just talking about posts at the public forum by a few people, I'm talking about the morale on the whole.

Such as whether they're actually nice to you on the phone, whether they are really willing to help you as best as possible, and obviously taking their own personal time to interact with users on a public forum just to name a few.

I would say that the actual service would be of more importance when choosing an ISP.

It was never said at any point that it is the sole reason for choosing an ISP as that really would be rubbish, it was simply one of many considerations that should be taken into account.

What's the point of this exercise.

It only helps to confuse other new potential Broadband users.
This top 10 ISP list is only a reflection of Advertising.

I just think of the poor users who are faced with $150 bills after being lured into a contract that locks them into a 12 or more month contract and they end up paying through the nose ...

As I see it, at the top of the list are the worst providers one could choose.

I guess publishing a list like this serves those who benefit from other poor bastards subsidising their usage in one way or the other. I rather not mention my top provider for selfish reasons so I can benefit from relative lack of overuse with my provider.

Enough, Cheers.

Maggon writes...

I rather not mention my top provider for selfish reasons so I can benefit from relative lack of overuse with my provider.

I question your writings in another thread:

Maggon writes...

I'd like to mention my ISP, but it seems not to be common practice to do so.

Since when is it not common practice on WP to say which ISP you are with?

What's the point anyway?

If you tell, they call you "fanboy"

Besides there are all the fanboys out there who'll try to convince you treir provider is better.

Also, a few months ago when I started researching which ISP I should go for, this forum did not help me that much. In the end it was my hard labor, my job's IT man's opinion, and shopping around that got me (in my opinion) the best deal.

I stand corrected however, it may be common practice to mention one's own ISP.

How about that?

Maggon writes...

How about that?

Fair enough.

If you tell, they call you "fanboy"

No they don't. "They" call you fanboy if you constantly mention your ISP at the drop of a hat or fail to see your ISPs shortcomings or protect the ISP even when bad things happen. Simply saying "i'm with xyz ISP", nobody would call you a fanboy.

Matthew Moyle-Croft writes...

So, I can categorically tell you it's not true.

Then release your figures to back up this statement.