Whirlpool

Can anyone tell me why iiNet don't allow static IP's on residential accounts? or is it just a marketing thing?

Just wondering if there is a ligit reason.

In short:

Static Ips indicate server activities which iinet see as needing more support and therefore force people to go with a business pack for the extra support line.

i.e. make them pay more as iinet see the people with static ips as needing more (and higher level) support and give them a priority support line.

Ok, that makes sense I guess. Still a pitty we have to suffer because of the retards who don't know what a service level agreement is.

thanks dude

Its a marketing thing.

Most residential customers don't need a static IP and can live with a dynamic one.

It is really only businesses that need static IPs and they have structured their plans to suit.

The business pack also includes not just one IP though, you can get a extra IPs at no extra charge and also get the business level support (which is brilliant).

what about those of us who don't need and have never used support? but want to run a mud/vpn/etc... without the hassle of dynamic dns?

The thing is, its supposed to be an 'always on' connection, thats how its advertised, so I don't see how its more expensive for them to use static rather than dynamic ip's.

As I said... its purely a marketing thing.

ADSL always on? Pfft!

Mister Ed writes...

The business pack also includes not just one IP though, you can get a extra IPs at no extra charge and also get the business level support (which is brilliant).

Sorry,

Incorrect. I requested a block of 4 and they told me it would cost me from rememberence $64 for a block of 4

Networkgeek writes...

Incorrect. I requested a block of 4 and they told me it would cost me from rememberence $64 for a block of 4

When you order a business pack they give you a /30 (block of 4, 2 usable) as part of the pack.

If you want additional subnets beyond that, yes, you will pay for them. You may even need to submit a network plan.

Networkgeek writes...

Incorrect. I requested a block of 4 and they told me it would cost me from rememberence $64 for a block of 4

Ah well sucks to be you. I have a block of 4 and it cost me nothing on top of my $29.95 for the business pack.

I also use all 4 of them, but lets not get into that debate again.

Rein writes...

I also use all 4 of them, but lets not get into that debate again.

Heh, so long as you never have to connect to whoever is using the IP address that's one number above or below your range, good for you.

MrPC writes...

Heh, so long as you never have to connect to whoever is using the IP address that's one number above or below your range, good for you.

There are routers and devices which can do 1:1 NAT for multiple IPs. This allows you to use all of the IPs assigned to you without any issues.

how often do dynamic IP's change??

Gregr writes...

how often do dynamic IP's change??

Anywhere between an hour and 84 days, from my experience, although the latter is more common.

Gregr writes...

how often do dynamic IP's change??

It really only changes when your connection resets itself. So if you have a stable connection you will keep the same IP for ages.

iiNet also have a "sticky IP" system in place. If you authenticate to the same radius server (or is it the same BRAS?) when you come back online you get the same IP.

If you keep your modem logged in you might keep the same dynamic IP for a few months.

Usually there'll be a scheduled maintenance or power blackout now and again to foil that though. You can usually reboot though and get the previous one back again, unless you've then been assigned one from a newly obtained (by iiNet) block of IP's.

There are tricks to swapping between a couple of IP's which usually work.
Most common is logging in alternately using just 'username' and 'username @ iinet.net.au'. Sometimes a full reboot of the modem gets you back to where you were, before a quick sync' drop gave you a new IP, etc etc. Lots of things to try, if you're keen to keep on a same IP.

I've got a dynamic IP from Pacific Internet
signed up just over two years ago. it's never changed.
two weeks ago i got an email from tech support warning me that my IP address was going to change today (and it did)
780 days plus a warning. that's the most static dynamic ip address i've ever heard of (and i've had the power off to the whole house in that time, and the modem out of the phone line)

Networkgeek writes...

Sorry,

Incorrect. I requested a block of 4 and they told me it would cost me from rememberence $64 for a block of 4

I have to agree with the others saying the extra 4 IPs are FREE. I also have the business pack, I asked for the extra /30 I got them for free.

Its on the business webpage...

static IP

A static IP allows you to host your own services on your broadband connection. You can set up a web or ftp server, configure a VPN, or even host your own mail server. One static IP is included with the iibusiness pack, and an additional block of 4 IPs is available upon request by emailing: iibizsupport@iinet.net.au. Please have a detailed network usage map available as this may be required.

They are available on request. If you don't request them you don't get them. Its just some people probably only need single static IP and the /30 will go to waste.

I also use 1:1 NAT and have got all 4 of the /30 as well as my gateway IP all working, so 5 static IPs. If you have need of static IPs and more than one the business pack is way good!

It's amazing when you post something and about 1 month later you still get a response.

For those people who told me that the first 4 will be free, I actually rang up and ask them why did I get an email from hostmaster@iinet.net.au saying I needed to pay for the additional IP's.

The guy was quickly apoligsing for the error in the email and gave me the additional 2 IP's for free.

Email from iiNet:

>> Please be advised that if you require a block of 8 Ips, /29, you
>> will be required to submit a diagram network map. This should
>> include where each Ip will be assigned.
>> Please also note that additional Ips on your account are priced
>> at $64.00 per block of 4. Your additional block of 8 will equate to
>> $128.00 per year.

So people with business pack should pay $64 or $128? Can anyone confirm how much does it cost you for 8 IPs? For me, it is $128.

Can anyone confirm?

Thats alot of money for a /29

adprom writes...

Static Ips indicate server activities which iinet see as needing more support and therefore force people to go with a business pack for the extra support line.

Well, if that's the reason, it's pathetic. A static IP doesn't automatically mean a server.

I need a static IP as my streaming box (WinXP by the way) feeds info, via PHP and MySQL to the website. A static IP is the best way to make this happen.....and don't even suggest DynDNS.

Aussie Web Radio writes...

Well, if that's the reason, it's pathetic. A static IP doesn't automatically mean a server.

I need a static IP as my streaming box (WinXP by the way) feeds info, via PHP and MySQL to the website. A static IP is the best way to make this happen.....and don't even suggest DynDNS.

That there says to me your streaming box is a "server", it is serving infomation out to a website, which then rebroadcasts it.
Which then says to me yes it is a server, which then goes against your own post about static ip don't mean a server.

So differentiate between my 'Server' and P2P.

EDIT: My main objection is the assumption that I would need more support because of that streaming box. As long as the connection is up, and working the way it should they'll never hear from me.

Besides which not only would I not expect them to support my equipment, but I wouldn't want them too, since the majority of them wouldn't understand the setup.

Apart from which, this is not a business, yet I am penalised by having to pay for extra static IPs and bonus support, that I will never use.

Aussie Web Radio writes...

I need a static IP as my streaming box (WinXP by the way) feeds info, via PHP and MySQL to the website.

Dude, it's a streaming server no matter how you slice it :) It takes resources to allocate and document a static IP. iiNET have created bundle plans with a combination of services, unfortunately for you, they don't offer "just" a static IP add-on. They are working to a business model.

Aussie Web Radio writes...

Well, if that's the reason, it's pathetic

It's not a reason, the real reason is greed.

Businesses NEED a static IP. Businesses can bear the extra cost, and in my opinion this is the ONLY real reason why static IP's require a more expensive business plan.

I run a bunch of servers at home, and whilst I'd LOVE a static IP, it wouldn't mean I'd be calling iiNet support for any reason. In fact, because I do have the skills to run these servers, I'd say I am LESS of a burden on iiNet's support system (I've NEVER called them).

Silvia Saint writes...

It's not a reason, the real reason is greed.

Businesses NEED a static IP. Businesses can bear the extra cost, and in my opinion this is the ONLY real reason why static IP's require a more expensive business plan.

I run a bunch of servers at home, and whilst I'd LOVE a static IP, it wouldn't mean I'd be calling iiNet support for any reason. In fact, because I do have the skills to run these servers, I'd say I am LESS of a burden on iiNet's support system (I've NEVER called them).

EXACTLY!!

I find it hard to justify the extra $37 per month when I only need 1 static IP (not the bonus 4), not the 10 extra email addresses (have my own domains for that stuff), or the extra 30Mb of webspace (I already have 750Mb hosted with my two domains), or the more expensive business iiPhone billing.

Aussie Web Radio writes...

I find it hard to justify the extra $37 per month when I only need 1 static IP (not the bonus 4), not the 10 extra email addresses (have my own domains for that stuff), or the extra 30Mb of webspace (I already have 750Mb hosted with my two domains), or the more expensive business iiPhone billing.

That'll be $29.95 a month, not $37.

Jason Backshall writes...

That'll be $29.95 a month, not $37.

Plus the extra $7 for the cost of business line rental.

Don't get the wrong idea Jason, I am VERY tempted to take up iiNet ADSL2, but this is just something that is a stumbling block for me. I am operating on a tight budget, and the extra cost is the difference.....that's all.

Aussie Web Radio writes...

Plus the extra $7 for the cost of business line rental.

I don't think you need to upgrade your iiphone plan to business to have the business pack?

Granted, I could just add on the $29.95 for the single static Ip, 10 extra email addresses, and extra 30Mb of webspace, but it seems a little on the overkill side of things, since I'll never use anything but the single static IP....that's what I'm saying :)

Aussie Web Radio writes...

Plus the extra $7 for the cost of business line rental.

a business line rental isnt required to have the business pack - you dont even have to take iiphone at all.

Aussie Web Radio writes...

since I'll never use anything but the single static IP....that's what I'm saying :)

That's the choice. Kinda take it or leave it really!

Michael Davis writes...

a business line rental isnt required to have the business pack - you dont even have to take iiphone at all.

...but you do if you want ADSL2+ speeds, right ?

If you pay the $29.95 per month it removes the requirement for phone bundling, and if available, gives you ADSL2+ Silvia.. 2 more....plus !

I still think it's lousy especially when it comes to stuff like connecting to my office.
Yes DynDNS works but it's a lame solution.

Silvia Saint writes...

...but you do if you want ADSL2+ speeds, right ?

Sort of.. Well ... No..

iiBusiness Pack gives you ADSL2+... but you don't get double quota... the iiphone gives you the double quota.. :). Not to forget $10 off broadband ...

-Jeffa

Edit: To clean that up a little...

iiBusiness Pack:
- Higher Speeds
- 1 Static IP + optional block of 4 (2 of use)
- Business support line during work hours.

iiPhone:
- $10 discount on Broadband plan
- Double Quota.
- Higher speeds (if you have not taken business pack)

sssputnik writes...

Yes DynDNS works but it's a lame solution.

sux tho when your having dropout issues. :P

can i point out iinetphone?

is that just on phone bundle? or as business pack too?

you must have iiphone residential or business to have iinetphone ( this may change in future I thinking! )

disturbthepeace writes...

sux tho when your having dropout issues. :P

Which is what I mean by lame.

Soon I'll have static with another ISP anyway. (One of the primary reasons I'm moving).

sssputnik writes...

Yes DynDNS works but it's a lame solution.

I was using zoneedit.com when had a dynamic IP with iiNet - it worked well and my router www.smoothwall.org was able to automatically update DNS whenever my IP changed.

I never had any problems with this service and dynamic IP.

Hill Billy writes...

I was using zoneedit.com when had a dynamic IP with iiNet - it worked well and my router www.smoothwall.org was able to automatically update DNS whenever my IP changed.

Yeah, that's what I'm using as well (Zoneedit + dynamic IP update software) - it works, but it's a layer of complexity I should not have to use.

Silvia Saint writes...

it works, but it's a layer of complexity I should not have to use.

I agree. Vote with your feet - I did.

Silvia Saint writes...

It's not a reason, the real reason is greed.

Greed is a bit harsh. Reality is services cost money to provide and support. Proposing that you won't need to call support is one thing, but the company does have to project costs to arrive at realistic plan pricings. The biz pack addon gives unbundled ADSL2 access plus static IPs.. do you get your bread and milk for free when you buy your groceries? Hopefully iiNET are a sustainable business.. they have their offerings, it's your choice to take them up. Hillbilly looks like he decided he didn't need the speed as much as the static IP....

Alternatively, think of a static IP as a luxury, if you can afford it, buy and enjoy, otherwise use work arounds like free Dynamic IP direction services.

A serious static biz grade connection with QOS costs much more than the packages that iiNET offer, it's up to the consumer to determine the suitability.

I guess as devil's advocate there is a line of thinking that if someone is hosting their own mail server, that's one less lot of support queries... but then there's the l33t types who need help configuring port forwards to their warez FTPs etc... :(

(audioboffin) writes...

Greed is a bit harsh. Reality is services cost money to provide and support.

Bah, it's greed.

Let's say iiNet went and gave everyone a static IP now, and didn't tell anyone, all new accounts also got static. How is that different from the current situation? Since it's "always on" it's not like it's costing iiNet more IP space.

You could even give a toolbox for script kiddies to change their IP if required in case they piss someone off and get packeted, but I think we should just let em get packeted.

If someone rings saying. "Hey, I think I have a problem with my port forwarding/mail server that relates to my static IP" then iiNet can just say "Sorry, unsupported".

sssputnik writes...

Let's say iiNet went and gave everyone a static IP now, and didn't tell anyone, all new accounts also got static. How is that different from the current situation? Since it's "always on" it's not like it's costing iiNet more IP space.

Do you have any idea how many people actually turn everything off once their finished? - You'd be surprised...

Mummy & Daddy accounts are the most interesting, they are so convinced that they will get a virus, the just switch everything off after they finished.
-Jeffa

sssputnik writes...

How is that different from the current situation?

I and many others would be very happy with this proposed arrangement, and while the immediate provisioning of static IPs for all users may not cost anything, ongoing servicing of support calls, and the increase in traffic generated by servers hosted on iiNET connections.. especially outbound.. would surely be a discouraging factor for the ISP?

This may be something MM would care to comment on, but it's probably an internal business decision that the company doesn't want publicised.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not against the free static IP idea, but there would be good considered reasons for them not being available yet.

sssputnik writes...

If someone rings saying. "Hey, I think I have a problem with my port forwarding/mail server that relates to my static IP" then iiNet can just say "Sorry, unsupported".

Have you ever tried to get someone of the phone who thinks it is their god given right to have this support?

Thats what wastes time. Following procedures in customer dispute resolution and the accompanying letters and work for resolution.

I am sorry but just saying "its greed" doesnt make you correct or make your wants something valid.

Its simple, its a residential service, it is not intended for hosting. You dont NEED static for a basic internet service.

Jeffa writes...

Do you have any idea how many people actually turn everything off once their finished? - You'd be surprised...

I know some people do, especially the PC. But most people leave the modem running, which is what matters.

saudukar writes...

Have you ever tried to get someone of the phone who thinks it is their god given right to have this support?

Agreed their may be some initial surge, but once people get the idea it's not supported...

You dont NEED static for a basic internet service.

No you don't. But it's sure handy when I'm restricting who can access various services at the office.

Like "Only allow these IP's access to our alarm/security system"

Yes I could use VPN, but basic windows VPN then pumps ALL traffic down the VPN until its shutdown, which confuses most users. (And makes net browsing etc slow).
I could go buy a better VPN client app, but they are about $100 a license.

Or I could use DynDNS, but don't fancy taking trips out to our staffs houses in order to set this up.

sssputnik writes...

which is what matters.

Only as far as the allocation of the IP.. the big picture includes that, bytes, support, infrastructure.. and sustrainable economies of scale..

Consumers expect a hell of a lot out of residential connections these days hey ? As MM as referred to ages ago, iiNET weigh up the numbers when they develop their plans... so if you get a petition with half a million iiNET user's signatures, the priorities may change.. :)

sssputnik writes...

but basic windows VPN then pumps ALL traffic down the VPN until its shutdown

You can turn off using the remote gateway, thus only sending traffic to the office network over the VPN.

sssputnik writes...

No you don't. But it's sure handy when I'm restricting who can access various services at the office.

Yeah but thats not iiNets fault. They provide Internet Services. Obviously this service you intend to provide is business related. ERGO business plan.

How many bloody phone calls start with "I need this for work."

Seems bloody obvious to me. Priority support and Static IP.

Sounds more like you want something for nothing.

Silvia Saint writes...

Yeah, that's what I'm using as well (Zoneedit + dynamic IP update software) - it works, but it's a layer of complexity I should not have to use.

You're more than welcome to bring your own block of IPs to us - which APNIC will generally provide to you if they're satisfied you meet their criteria.

J.

Michael Davis writes...

a business line rental isnt required to have the business pack - you dont even have to take iiphone at all.

Then can someone tell who ever answers sales enquiry emails?!

Every time I've asked about this the answer is - no, for ADSL2 and static IP you need to be an iiphone customer with the business pack.

saudukar writes...

Yeah but thats not iiNets fault. They provide Internet Services. Obviously this service you intend to provide is business related. ERGO business plan.

99% of the time its non work related use. The odd time someone needs to access to fix an alarm issue or something I hardly consider worth spending $30 a month for.

Sounds more like you want something for nothing.

No, I'd be quite happy to pay $5 a month for static IP. $30 is robbery. Many ISP's offer static out-of-the-box, which is why I'm switching.

Also pushing our other staff to use Amcom instead of iiNet for this reason, cheaper + static IP + no bundling.

Jason Backshall writes...

You're more than welcome to bring your own block of IPs to us - which APNIC will generally provide to you if they're satisfied you meet their criteria.

Would you do this at no cost?

mwdmeyer writes...

You can turn off using the remote gateway, thus only sending traffic to the office network over the VPN.

The remote gateway sets the route on the client? I'm not using Windows VPN host, just the client. The work end terminates at our firewall, not Windows Server box.

I would have thought the client set the routing table?

sssputnik writes...

I would have thought the client set the routing table?

it does

so you write a little batch file you put on your staff members desktop for them to dial in with.

it then adds static routes to the networks you want to be accessed via the vpn.

Michael Davis writes...

so you write a little batch file you put on your staff members desktop for them to dial in with.

it then adds static routes to the networks you want to be accessed via the vpn.

By default Windows pushes ALL traffic down the VPN.
(Which is fine for what I want).

But the clients don't want their webmail traversing my network as it will slow everything else down.

How can I pull their default gateway for use in said batch file? (Or shall I just hit Google)

sssputnik writes...

(Or shall I just hit Google)

google it - i send you a whim with some suggestions.

I myself have the business pack aswell as a block of 8 IP addresses. While it would be better if the business support line was open after hours (the only time I can really use it), people with static IP addresses DO need more support. I'm happy to be paying the extra for this support if I need it, and I have needed it a few times.

For one, if you disconnect then reconnect without iiNet recognising the previous session as terminated, you have problems. For the 7 minutes that the previous session is still active, alot of sites will not be accessable. This will cause chaos for normal users calling the support line. This is not a problem with a dynamic IP as when the user reconnects, they are assigned a new IP address and away they go.

Jason Backshall writes...

You're more than welcome to bring your own block of IPs to us - which APNIC will generally provide to you if they're satisfied you meet their criteria.

So if we have some IP's you can attach them to our residential accounts?

How would one go about setting this up, email support?

Jason Backshall writes...

You're more than welcome to bring your own block of IPs to us - which APNIC will generally provide to you if they're satisfied you meet their criteria.

You imply that meeting APNIC criteria is the reason for the extra cost to provide static IP's.

Ok, then I'll ask the question directly, seeing as iiNet reps have thus far not volunteered the information (I searched, but I cannot find).

Why are static IP's an additional cost to users ? Does it cost iiNet any more to provide a static IP ?

<sarcasm>
I'll hold my breath until I get an official reply.
</sarcasm>

poedguy writes...

For one, if you disconnect then reconnect without iiNet recognising the previous session as terminated, you have problems.

That's poor design. Plus if your ADSL business service is dropping out then I'd be seriously upset. It should be up for days/weeks at a time.

Even so, that should be the only type of difference if you have static or dynamic.

I want a static ip cuz my ip keeps blodoy changing pissing me off..iam gonna call iiNet now

how do i get a stable ip that doesnt chagne but doesnt invovles wasting $30 a month

You don't.

Use a DynDNS service. (Hint: Put DynDNS in google)

IT comes u pwith a lot of result which one does it work and how does it work. This is free right?

DOes this one work?
www.dyndns.com/support/clients
i cant find FAQ or inforamtion about it so dont know how to use it

Check here:
www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns

Even a FAQ there.

Basically, you register, and either your modem, or a client you run on your PC contacts them and updates your current IP to a hostname.

like: mywowserver.dyndns.org

Then when someone needs to connect to you, they type in : mywowserver.dyndns.org and magically they also have your IP since the service has been informed by the client what your current IP is.

No need for static then.

adprom writes...

Static Ips indicate server activities which iinet see as needing more support and therefore force people to go with a business pack for the extra support line.

i.e. make them pay more as iinet see the people with static ips as needing more (and higher level) support and give them a priority support line.

i have ii residential at home and iibusiness at work

i dont call for either

I dont get a seperate number to call for the work connection to jump the queue if i needed too ... ?

Roly writes...

a seperate number to call for the work connection

"Save time and money! Customers with the business pack have special access to our business support line. The business support line is available from 8:30 am to 5:30 pm EST, Monday to Friday. "

Whats so good about this business support thing as opposed to a normal support?

it seems that when you call business support they are more knowledgable, the noobs are on normal support. Ive had issues calling on the business line, and gotten through faster on normal support number, and ask for a business support rep, and never get one!
Business support is fairly good when there's an issue.

Silvia Saint writes...

Why are static IP's an additional cost to users ?

Silvia if you bother to read MM's comments regarding this, he says that iiNET offer a business pack that includes a static IP. iiNET do NOT just sell a static IP add-on, and from what he said the business pack add-on was given quite some consideration before iiNET offered it. He also said that this is unlikely to change in the near future.

Keep holding your breath, he's already made that quite clear here. He also included the reasoning behind what is offered with the business pack

Roly writes...

I dont get a seperate number to call for the work connection to jump the queue if i needed too ... ?

There is a business support number in the initial email sent to biz pack customers when the option is first added.

Iam not forking out $360 a year for for a static ip..that is clearly a rip off

davidw89 writes...

Iam not forking out $360 a year for for a static ip..that is clearly a rip off

You get more then a static IP for that money.

davidw89 writes...

Iam not forking out $360 a year for for a static ip..that is clearly a rip off

$29.95 = Reverse DNS, biz support, static ips and more. Thats why its called a 'biz pack'

ER iam on 2 computer whats the point of getting those other features when i only need static ip? The other feature is kinda worthless to me..

Well at the end ii don't offer it - so that is that. I really don't see the point of going on and on about it.