Whirlpool

The Sydney Morning Herald announced this morning

(http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/nsw-students-to-get-promised-laptops/2008/11/29/1227491892398.html)

that NSW and the federal govt had agreed on the specifics of the federal govts election promise to give a laptop to every school child.

The article says they will receive "custom-built computers", "based on a prototype already developed by IT experts in the Education Department."

It gets worse: "specially designed teenager-friendly computers... these custom-made laptops are about three-quarters the size of a regular laptop..."

Does this mean a crippled el-cheapo netbook? Built as cheaply as possible with no-name brands? How is that going to work for kids doing graphic design? Or HD video work? Or wanting to develop games?

Sounds to me like they envisage giving everyone a word processor and and a web browser and saying "There's your computer!"

Oh, this gem at the end: "As the laptops run on a wireless network, there was no need to build expensive... banks of network servers."

Does this mean that every laptop will have a Telstra 3G network card inbuilt? Or don't they realise what a server really is?

What the heck?

Stuart Midgley writes...

Does this mean a crippled el-cheapo netbook? Built as cheaply as possible with no-name brands?

That was my first impression when reading the article. What a scam !

The states are being given $1 billion for the laptop plan, and there are around 2.8 million students in primary and secondary educarion – that equates to around $350 for each student. I guess they're stuck with netbooks.

Anyone wanting to do graphic design, video editing or game developing can go to a computer room and use a desktop computer. But a free netbook for word processing and net access will certainly make life easier for students.

Stuart Midgley writes...

Does this mean a crippled el-cheapo netbook? Built as cheaply as possible with no-name brands?

That was my impression when the promise was first made.

Or don't they realise what a server really is?

The reporter made that comment, it's not a quote from Mr Rees.

greg27 writes...

and there are around 2.8 million students in primary and secondary educarion

It's only for years 9 to 12 – senior high school students.

What about schools that already provide their students with laptops? Will the parents of these students receive a discount on their fees equal to that of providing the government ordered laptop, or will students receive a second one to keep (as most of these are leased laptops)?

Is this for all states or just NSW because I will rage if I don't get a laptop(anything will do) here in Queensland.

It's about $2400 per laptop.

I bought an Asus laptop for my daughter for about $700 that has all she needs. There seems to be a lot of fat in the $2400 price.

All they needed to do was organise a contract for delivery with a company such as Asus to individual addresses obtained from DET and they could get away with less than $1000 per unit.

I think the $2400 per child will include all the costs that go with supplying the laptops it doesn't just include the laptop price (supply of wireless infrastructure, in school support, etc and more than likely servers) – even though they're saying otherwise.

In other words the total yearly cost of running the system per student/laptop.

And I suspect they will probably be something like the classmate pcs.

But since the election they seem to have made such a meal of the "Education Revolution" and PC for every child that they may just pull a rabbit out the hat with this to try and gain back some credibility.

Yes guys... it's all true. We've already HAD our Year 9 laptop rollout at our school. We are however a Catholic school and the funding was released prior to this story obviously as they've been sitting in a storeroom since end of last term. And we are not alone... though one of the first there are dozens of Catholic high schools with their little laptops at the ready...

And yes everything else is true too... They are pretty ordinary little notebook things. They came UNIMAGED WITHOUT LAPTOP BAGS. The funding has not by any means been comprehensive enough to provide infrastructure such as extra power supply etc. Rudd's made good technically. Every kid will get a laptop. Good luck to schools in getting them imaged, ensuring their safety, making provisions for kids who 'forget' them or lose them, having power sources for kids who forget to charge batteries, provide maintenance and ... well I'm sure you get the picture...

The ONLY thing we got was funding from the Catholic Education Office for provision for extra IT staff, dependent upon the number of kids enrolled in each school. In some instances this will be 1 full time permanent employee, but may grow to 1.5 jobs or maybe 2 people max if you have over 1,000 kids enrolled in your school.

To say the least, the whole exercise was not thought through at all. It was a vote grabber plain and simple.

Now see how much time our teachers have 'to teach' (see 'dumbing down' In The News forum). Even less of their already stretched time will be available to actually bloody well teach!

And no, I'm not a teacher. I just can't believe the folly of it all. No extra bandwidth provision... no nothing. Not even imaged. Its such a stupid idea. It sure won't help kids who don't have access to computers at home, particularly if a school chooses to NOT allow students to take them to and from school. And if you don't already have wireless internet at home they'd be useless anyhow.

What a total waste of public money.

Im curious – which company is providing the notebooks ?

Are they branded ?

And more importantly, is there ANY single computer company in Australia with enough staff to do the service and support for that many notebooks?

I always thought it would be a good idea to share the notebooks around several manufacturers and their service networks, as it really is impossible at low margins to actually service huge numbers of notebooks, as notebooks at schools have high failure rates due to students use ; )

I am begining to feel that this has not been thought through....

What happens in a couple of years – will the government be providing free netbooks/notebooks to students forever ??

Surely students will take better care of the notebooks if their family had to pay for it ??? Maybe a rebate for families would have been better.

This money would have been better spent getting better quality teachers – most families in Australia have access to a computer now – whats the point of this exercise ? It seems such a waste of money.

I'm more worried about how long these things will last... surprisingly nothing has been said about that.

This will be interesting from a security purspective.
I read somewhere a while ago that the Internet access was going to be filtered on these PCs and that they were going to be locked right down.
I give it less than 2 months for someone to get around the locked down security and then a week after that for everyone in the country to be able to do it.
It will be a nightmare to control.
Mark

It will be interesting to see if NSW's private schools follow suit, I don't imagine they like being upstaged by public schools.

Also, who is going to be responsible for them? The students? Individual schools? The company that supplied them, the company that made them, the state government?

Another thing, what are they actually going to be used for? It sounds like they'll be horribly underpowered (and the Sun-Herald's photo had an XP sticker, indicating that they're netbooks), but it seems like a huge waste of money if they're just going to be used for word processing.

my school (catholic) everyone got a macbook

how do the specs fare against a Asus EEE 901 or similar ? i.e. a $500-$600 or so thin laptop.

i'd imagine 'teenager friendly' is a hardware spec that allows youtube+skype+msn+facebook all open at the same time, but what does that mean in non-sales speak ?

Toliman writes...

i'd imagine 'teenager friendly' is a hardware spec that allows youtube+skype+msn+facebook all open at the same time, but what does that mean in non-sales speak ?

Teenager friendly to a school would be word processing and light web browsing.
I would guess they would be similar to the original EeePCs.
Mark

Stuart Midgley writes...

Does this mean a crippled el-cheapo netbook? Built as cheaply as possible with no-name brands? How is that going to work for kids doing graphic design? Or HD video work? Or wanting to develop games?

In secondary college?

The one Nathan Rees was posing in the paper with looked like an Asus EEE. Chrome mouse buttons. 10 inch probably.

3G network card is too expensive and monthly fee is still high. I think they will get wifi and internet from school server. With 350aud for 1 laptop is quite challenging. The government could sign contract with company like dell or msi rather than develop on their own. I believe it will not use windows xp ~~", 1 of my friend in high school only need a 500Mhz laptop to run visual basic 6. He got windows 95 and it is black and white screen lol @@

Be interesting to see what the kids end up with. And how many private schools take up the offer to participate in what looks like a bulk purchase.

The partnership agreement to deliver the computers in schools programs includes funding for independent private and Catholic schools.

Mr Rees said he would welcome those schools buying computers through the public sector program.

I can honestly see if my kids school does participate, my oldest handing down the school supplied computer to the next kid down, as his Toshy laptop that he inherited from me when I got a new one (good old Salary Sacrifice :)) is probably 3 times as powerful.

i'm hoping for an MSI Netbook or Asus' 900HA *fingers crossed*

I wonder who is going to pay for all that, and who is going to pay for the repairs when they're out of action.

The one Verity was showing off today was a Lenova, not sure if thats going to be the final model. There was earlier talk that these may be web based machines or Linux based. The final specs haven't been released.

I know one of the DET curriculumn support people was going throw a spanner into the works next week about if the specs will meet the real needs of students.

I can imagine them installing a strewed up version of linux that imitates XP or vista. I heard that they will be filtering websites via the schools internet connection but also at home(using the modified OS).

This is from a few months ago.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/NSW-to-censor-student-laptops/0,130061733,339292846,00.htm

"On our laptop model, the first question is how do you prevent them from being sold down at the pub," said Coutts-Trotter. "Well, you equip them in a way so they are only of use within a DET environment or are only of use for DET students or authorised users, such as staff."

So what stops us from installing XP or ubuntu?

Our internet filtering is unbreakable. We have a huge proxy array that does all the filtering. We've just brought that in-house and the reason we have done that is we want much tighter control over it," said Wilson.

Total BS

"I know that the Commonwealth introduced an internet filtering initiative that a high school student broke"

Referring to one student, as far as I now half of my class can get around it.
-

So my guesses is that they will put a password on the bios to prevent users from booting from cds or USB sticks.
The password will be the same for all of the laptops , and it will get leaked.

Or even better just remove the battery to wipe the CMOS

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/nsw-students-to-get-promised-laptops/2008/11/29/1227491892398.html

The successful tenderer will produce laptops based on a prototype already developed by IT experts in the Education Department.

aka a rebadged EEE with a big DET logo slapped to the top to satisfy there big ego.

"NSW stands ready to deliver teenager-friendly, custom-built laptops to the nation,"

WTF?

As the laptops run on a wireless network, there was no need to build expensive computer labs or banks of network servers.

So what happens when somebody wants to use photoshop?

-

Thumbs up for getting this rolling but if they are going to do this please dont touch the software or hardware. It will cause a lot of unnecessary problems.

honestly no school child "needs" a laptop.

even at uni, most of us still goto computer labs to do our uni work.

so removing the battery would wipe the CMOS???

On our laptop model, the first question is how do you prevent them from being sold down at the pub," said Coutts-Trotter. "Well, you equip them in a way so they are only of use within a DET environment or are only of use for DET students or authorised users, such as staff.
Our internet filtering is unbreakable. We have a huge proxy array that does all the filtering. We've just brought that in-house and the reason we have done that is we want much tighter control over it," said Wilson.

*facepalm*
what's the point of this?
what if i can't access my backup assignment file on rapidshare?

greg27 writes...

The states are being given $1 billion for the laptop plan, and there are around 2.8 million students in primary and secondary educarion – that equates to around $350 for each student. I guess they're stuck with netbooks.

I have heard that their phasing the laptops in over a period of a couple of years with 9,10,11,12 stuf\dents recieving them first

After all what is the point for year 6 students and lower having laptops or netbooks

Machines will be running an improvised version of windows xp that complies with the group policy of the det. Linux and Vista would require to much change of infrastructur(especially helpdesk) to manage. Since all det teams use xp still.

Not to mention linux is to easy to manipulate.

BTW: servers are in the procccess of being placed in schools so teachers can remote in on school pcs from their home, a similar server system is what will be used for the laptops at home

The bottom line on all this is that the DET wants their students to have a highly controlled, restricted computing experience.

They don't want kids doing anything that might get criticised on the front page of The Daily Telegraph. This includes playing games ("School Games Encourage Violent Behaviour"); using chat programs ("Schools Supply Pedophile Grooming System"); or accessing pornography ("Students Exposed to Pervert Web at School"). (Not that porn at school is particularly appropriate.)

Think of the most restricted corporate environment, add a bit more restriction and that's what they'll get.

Which sucks, cause kids are excited by new and different things. But schools are always like that – scared to give kids any real chance at knowledge or learning. Especially scared to trust them.

EDIT – Education minister says all social networking will be disabled on the machines at school and at home because it is 'antisocial'!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/laptops-in-schools-will-be-antisocial/2008/11/30/1227979845018.html

This is my tax money going down the drain.

Remind me why kids need a bloody notebook for 9-12 studies?

Easy,

its for Facebook, Myspace, MSN Messenger, Youtube and PORN. Good education that !

AND its easier to hide the notebook from the parents :(

So much for have the computer in an area where the parent can see what is being accessed.

This is a sick waste of tax payers money, wont help parents (or the child for that matter) and is rediculous in the current world economic environmnent !

AND

if the computers are being given to the students, is this free notebook for students going to continue forever ? How about free cars for students ? That would help too ; )

So what exactly do primary school children need a laptop for?

What about supplying University and TAFE students with laptops instead? Im sure their need computing needs exceeds primary school childs need to use paint and adventure learning games.

Nice to see that the teenagers at school are still bitching even though they are getting something for nothing...actually people that work in the real world are paying for it – so stop complaining, get an after school job and buy your own if it is that terrible...

(the term 'ungrateful' springs to mind considering there are very very few high school students who would actually be able to vote...)

Seriously, we never had anything like that at school, not that I care now, but I am amazed at the people complaining that a 'crappy netbook' will not be usable for those kiddies doing game development or graphic design at school..

What were you using beforehand then? Perhaps you can keep using that – I thought these notebooks were just another excuse for kids not to have to learn how to write with a pen and paper or spell.

How many others out there listened to the Boyer Lectures on ABC FM from Rupert Murdoch? He has some rather interesting home truths for you lot at school complaining about not getting an uber wonderful do everything FREE laptop what next? Complaing that you are actually expected to use the thing for schoolwork?!!...

...goes back to the nursing home...damn kids...grumble grumble....

devilz writes...

so removing the battery would wipe the CMOS???

The BIOS is stored on the CMOS, and the CMOS relies on the battery on the motherboard. This is not always the only way of clearing the CMOS, most motherboards have a button that clears it as well. Some even have a key combination that can be pressed on start up.

Something which they *could* do is create a custom BIOS which totally disables start up on CDs and USBs. They would not do this because if the OS had to be reinstalled the support person would have to reflash the BOIS with a unlocked version. Taking a lot of time, time is money.

If they were to take the custom bios rute it could still be hacked by going to the manufactures website and using the standard BIOS.

EDIT: the battery i mean is the little button battery on the motherboard not the battery to power the system.

geekygirl writes...

actually people that work in the real world are paying for it

It would save a lot of money if they didnt play around with the OS. It will cause a lot of problems

I am amazed at the people complaining that a 'crappy netbook'.

I would actually prefer a netbook over a full spec laptop, because of the portability. I dont want to cary around a 15"

will not be usable for those kiddies doing game development or graphic design at school..

One point that they are trying to say is that these will replace current desktops. I am totally against that.

Yeah I would have thought a netbook with a reasonably shock proof SSD a better option as it can be put into a school bag without a worry about weight and size

(personally I don't like the size of the 15.4" I got from work..but hey, its free :oP)

I don't think these things should replace a schools computer lab, totally agree with you there.
Also the fact that most people do have a PC at home that they used previously for their school work should negate the argument about these things not being adequate by some members of the school kid community...

I thought it was a good idea when it was announced, hell I even had a tinge of jealousy (but if we all had been given a 'laptop' when I was at school well, lets just say it was more than 10 years ago lol)
I can see the merits in using them for typing up assignments and using the internet, but I don't think they are supposed to do everything and anything..

It will be more interesting to see how people look after these things, I remember when I was at school there were kids who were less than particular when it came to looking after something given to them from school...something about care factor zero as it never belonged to them...sort of defeats the purpose of giving students these things if half of the school take that attitude anyway...great way to quickly fritter away the money spent by the government...

But thats why they might be saying $2400 (whatever the amount is)...allows for subsequent replacements over their school careers...lol

(apologies for the old woman rant earlier..lol)

Geeze I always laugh when I see these schemes.

1) Students break laptops which efficiency.
2) Students never recharge the batteries.
3) Always end up installing shitware all over it.
4) Want it tech supported but also vetted for problems with CS/MSN/MIRC.
5) God forbid you actually image the thing because it is stuffed.
6) Want total control of the laptop but don't want to tech support it.
7) OMG I didn't backup. IT support should do data recovery.
8) I took it home and my dad wanted to install a hacked version of AutoCAD. Gimme local admin so he can install it.
9) Thousands of other ridiculous requests.

I found the easiest way to deal with these was to layout a basic XP/Office/Antivirus and then let them destroy it, have a DMZ'd separated wireless network that had proxy and intranet access. The laptop was there's to do whatever they wanted to. Our only point of call was to image it, so you get less requests because precious doesn't want IT nuking the system. No tech support on existing systems, only imaging back to base image.

Every other scenario of locking it down, profiles, policies just led to ridiculous amounts of debate over how much administration we had to go through when everyone wanted their own little personal computer but couldn't DO anything on it because we locked it down (wanting to join home wireless networks, install home custom software, etc).

Of course this differs from other "laptop trolley" schemes where the IT support officers where in charge of recharging, students could take laptops home, only used in classes and returned to the laptop trolley after class etc.

I have never seen so many smashed LCDs as when we had a home laptop scheme. Yes your schoolbag is not a great place to store a laptop, especially when you throw it around.

Interesting article in todays FR re the cost blowouts of the computer programme.
Detp of Finance has calculated that the cost of the programme is now $4700 per computer over a 4 year period.
Thats $1000 for the computer and $3700 over 4 years for maintenence and operation.
What on earth costs so much to maintain and operate a computer.
Exactly what make and model are these computers?

Given that the Govt doesnt pay any tax and will be buying the computers in bulk what sort of computers are they.

How much do you spend per year maintaining and operating your computer.
I sure dont spend anywhere near $3700 over 4 years on mine.

I have personally seen education department staff members leave to set up their own computer businesses to supply technical services and products to the department. Maybe they overcharge ; )

mauried writes...

What on earth costs so much to maintain and operate a computer.
Exactly what make and model are these computers?

The problem is that a schools IT funding is rarely if anything fair.

You have to pay the support officers, you have to pay for spare parts, broken part, warranty issues, sales issues, accounting management, time spent vetting issues with 3rd parties, specialty software, SOE licence, MS agreements, security, electrical upgrades, network infrastructure, desk and furniture to suit.

That is even before you get the laptops in place and students start using them.

I know for instance in a couple of schools when they move to a laptop scheme they generally have to employ a full-time staffer to support said laptops. Because frankly they are known to generate a lot of service/support load.

In fact in a lot of places where there has been government support prior a lot of what happened was the school gained the laptops through funding did very little with them and when they broke (which they inevitably did around kids) they simply threw them out. So the funding only last a lifetime of maybe 2 years of poorly maintained and supported laptops.

geekygirl writes...

It will be more interesting to see how people look after these things, I remember when I was at school there were kids who were less than particular when it came to looking after something given to them from school

People at the school I go to don't look after school owned property, Its amazing how many people touch the lcd screens really really hard leaving marks on the screens.
As for laptops are concerned people would respect them more if they had bought them self with there own money.

Its a bit strange at the school I go, at the moment you are only allowed to use your own laptop if you have a learning difficulty.

So they are sort of kicking them selfs in the back. This will probably change(I hope) when the the state issued laptops are rolled out.

It doesnt explain though why school children need a $1000 laptop.
bearing in mind that the Govt doesnt pay GST or any other taxes and will be getting a bulk purchase of the laptops, so they are likley to cost the Govt a lot less than you or I would pay for them.
Its more likley they are closer to $1500 laptops.
Whats wrong with supplying $500 laptops such as you can buy from local shops like
JB hi fi or Harvey Norman.
About the only thing that hi end laptops can do that low end laptops cant do is play games, and surely we arnt buying schools laptops for playing games on.

mauried writes...

and surely we arnt buying schools laptops for playing games on.

Well you will be surprised. Games, porn, hacking, my space, bit torrent and instant messaging will be the core use...

Sure the intention is to be used for education, but if you knew anything about kids than you would understand that this is not kids will use it for...

Sad really...

And spelling skills will go down the drain...

Well my brother attends a systematic catholic high school in SW Sydney and only their year 9's next yr in 2009 will receive laptops with windows and will be HP. I assume this isn't part of the recent government funding but another earlier grants that this school has acquired laptops. This is about 99.9% accurate as its all over the school newsletter and my brother spotted the delivery team with the laptops. I do wonder what the specs are

i wonder if this will conflict with the 50% off tax reimbursements ^o)

http://www.treasurer.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?doc=pressreleases/2008/077.htm&pageID=003&min=wms&Year=&DocType=0

mau1wurf1977 writes...

Games, porn, hacking, my space, bittorrent

It goes through the DET servers, there is filtering but its not very good but some students will get past it inevitably

What happened to computer labs or the libraries?

The school may have appropriate filtering but its when the small notebook gets home that worries me.

Very easy to hide from the parents and the kid now has a government funded product that, frankly, will encourage deception to the parents. Ive seen this too many times with full size notebooks !
A computer on the internet should be monitored by a parent at home.

This scheme needs to be scrapped period. Who the frack came up with this idea? And who was dumb enough to motion it and pass it? Argh! I'm sick of seeing my tax money being wasted, whilst I receive absolutely no benefits, get no tax relief, and continue to get milked. ARGH!

Kids these days .... *ARGH*
Oh, and I'm only 23.

I think that the concept of all students having a mobile computing device is awesome.

So many negative comments from posters who don't want the world to change and can't see the value of students using laptops.

Now the execution is going to be the killer (so to speak). Maintenance, damage and potential inappropriate use aside; I just know that they are not going to give enough support to the teachers who are going to be at the front line. There are many teachers out there who struggle to add an attachment to an email. They are not going to be magically proficient at teaching with these tools and I doubt that the training funds allocated will be anywhere near sufficient.

Add to that that there is bugger all room in the HSC or even the SC to be messing around on the laptops when there is so much damned content to plough through. The Board of Studies doesn't even allow graphics calculators in exams FFS (most other states do). I'm all for putting all of the exams online. Hell, remove the emphasis on content and allow the students access to the web so that their research, problem solving and synthesis skills are tested with carefully crafted questions rather than what they can remember. The future baby.

BTW torrenting, pron, hacking etc is an education ;)

Bloobeard writes...

BTW torrenting, pron, hacking etc is an education ;)

learning how to take (steal) and cover ones tracks is such a positive educational trait for young minds, together with the role models of the MILFs etc, I cant wait to see how selfish and dishonest the next generation will be with this type of 'education'

these are not adults, these are children and we should provide as much positive support as we can, I see this exercise as an excuse to provide even less teaching and one on one care.
Imagine how many teachers the government could have provided for the same money. Most students have access to computers at home nowdays anyway – such a waste : (

What a waste of taxpayer money.

Giving away laptops is not a solution to better education. Admit it, we all know that we spent far too much time chatting on MSN, downloading pron and playing games rather than 'studying' on a computer.

I know of some kids that cannot wait to get their laptops, the selfish brats mention it when I kick them off the computer after being on it for the whole day supposedly doing their 'assignment' with MSN on.

Also, lets talk about responsibility. Kid gets a mobile phone because he nags like crazy only to leave it in the wash. Now I could only imagine a rainy day and kids with wet school bags or worse getting rolled along the way to school.

Just my 2 cents.

fibagent writes...

Now I could only imagine a rainy day and kids with wet school bags or worse getting rolled along the way to school

Yeh, those bags are just thrown somewhere etc. so the laptops are going to be road kill. The main cost is going to be repairing them because plenty of students wont treat them properly then need them to be repaired which is going to cost extra tax payer money

These laptops would not cost a huge amount to maintain($900p/student max) if people looked after the stuff, Its basically people are age have no Respect for items that are not theres.

Who actually owns the laptops, the schools or the kids.
ie if a child changes school can they take their laptop with them.
If a child loses or damages their laptop, who is responsible for its replacement.
Was the supplier of the laptops selected through a competitive tender and who is the supplier.

Acording to the SMH artical you are allowed to keep the netbook when you leave school(4 years later).
This is sort of expected though because they would be outdated by then and also I cant see them giving them back to the lower years.

I think while you are at school they will say that the school owns them.

So does this mean that every 4 years the Govt has to shell out for a complete set of replacement laptops for every school.
If kids can keep the laptops when they leave school, who supplies the new laptops for kids entering school.

Bloobeard writes...

So many negative comments from posters who don't want the world to change and can't see the value of students using laptops.

I'm in Year 10 and I think that using laptops is EXTREMELY handy. Much better than carrying massive textbooks. On one day I could be carrying a Geography, Maths and Commerce textbook in the bag, which would mean I'd need a chiropractic appointment the next day. It's definitely a hassle carrying A LOT of books when it can be all stored onto a laptop and accessed easily on one.

Now the execution is going to be the killer (so to speak). Maintenance, damage and potential inappropriate use aside; I just know that they are not going to give enough support to the teachers who are going to be at the front line. There are many teachers out there who struggle to add an attachment to an email. They are not going to be magically proficient at teaching with these tools and I doubt that the training funds allocated will be anywhere near sufficient.

That is quite true. I can imagine a lot of my classmates taking advantage of teachers who don't have much computer knowledge... (e.g. playing games in class and claiming it's just their animated wallpaper or something really stupid). Albeit, there are quite a few teachers in my school who are quite computer literate (excluding the IPT staff), and they play CS and Warcraft 3 on school computers (yes, the teachers!).

BTW torrenting, pron, hacking etc is an education ;)

Amen.

lol wow
free notebooks? dam

mauried writes...

So does this mean that every 4 years the Govt has to shell out for a complete set of replacement laptops for every school.

ye, as long as that nub rudd is still in

I dont have any problem with Govts buying laptops for schools as long as its explained exactly what the Laptops are going to be used for , and why $1000 laptops
are required.
Why cant $500 Laptops be used instead.
I bought a perfectly good $500 Laptop from JB HI.
Does everything I can think of apart from gaming.
What hi end applications are the school children going to be running.

shifty asian writes...

I'm in Year 10 and I think that using laptops is EXTREMELY handy. Much better than carrying massive textbooks. On one day I could be carrying a Geography, Maths and Commerce textbook in the bag, which would mean I'd need a chiropractic appointment the next day. It's definitely a hassle carrying A LOT of books when it can be all stored onto a laptop and accessed easily on one.

i'm in uni, and i cant imagine flipping through a 1000page pdf file.

100x's easier and faster to use a real textbook.

if you want to get a low HSC mark, then by all means get a laptop, time wasted on a laptop prob = 100's of hours in a year. time gained on it = 0

Everyone one is like wow i have a new notebook lets install this entire cd from pc powerplay with so nmuch adware it would slow down nasa server. if they can install anything, What happens when they get brocken does this mean i have to fix them or tell the kid i sent it off for repairs u wont have 1 for 6 weeks or what, If u didnt guess i work tech support in schools and this idea sounds like a heaad ache mixed with a i hate rudd sticker all over it. Why do they need laptops hell but more compos for schools and have a way for students to bu their own laptop or dekstop at a discount that would be better. My apporach to fix them would be wipe back to base image say im sorry your data wasnt recoverable. May be next time they wint install all that free crap. what about licences for windows, microsoft office and others what happens then.

//end rant\\ FOR NOW!!!!

If the children are allowed to take the computers home , what happens if they dont bring them back.
For example, if the parents of the children are not very well off and dont have a computer at home as they cant afford one, whats to stop them simply taking the schools computer off the child and using it as their own.

We've been running a laptop program since 1994 and I can tell you that there is no way that a $500 laptop will be a well functioning device in 3yrs.

The extra costs come in via extended warranties, insurance cover, on-site support and software.

All this has been outlined in the new govt. documentation:
http://www.digitaleducationrevolution.gov.au/publications_resources/review_nat_sec_school_computer_fund.htm

Including the NSW govt. proposals which I still think are pretty optimistic.

For us insurance is the largest component outside of the cost of the laptop followed by software and on-site support.

I can understand the NSW govt. tac though. Given that the majority of the students that will receive the netbooks currently have poor access to technology anything will seem like a great deal no matter how cheap it is.

Hey guys,

I'm in Yr 10 attending a public high school in the Eastern-Suburbs of Sydney. I see that some Catholic schools have already gotten theirs. Should I expect to get mine within the 1st half of 2009? My school hasn't mentioned anything about laptops...

Wondering because I was planning to get an eeePC 901 in the holidays, was saving up.

Thanks

I loved the post about having to carry all those heavy school books around...FFS!!

Did something change in the 10 years I havent been at high school..lol Because books have probably been heavy for many years now..thats the lamest excuse under the sun for having a notebook...(and no I didn't do the 'easy' subjects at school I did Maths, Chem, Physics..all those big old heavy books....*sigh*)

I wonder if the spell checker will be removed so that kids actually still have to LEARN how to spell correctly? Its very visible in some of the posts you read in Whirlpool with people spelling words like colour (color..wtf!!) and defence (defense)incorrectly...

Its not that those of us saying this is a bad idea therefore we are afraid of the future bla bla bla..its just that for those of us in a position where we will be employing these kids in a few years time, we actually know that there are still some things people need to be able to do no matter how tech savvy they are..

Its called a pen and paper and if you cannot use one properly because you never had to at high school better not think about a career in aviation (my industry) for one thing. There are plenty of other careers and jobs that will not give a rats if you had a notebook in school and can type at a million words a minute, especially if you cannot sign your name with anything except for an X.....

The concept of providing students with a computer is on the right track IMO, they should have just installed desktops in each classroom at every student desk rather than giving them a notebook....(I have been to classrooms for various training courses for work with such setups and they work quite well as the teacher has more control over the students computer usage – that way they actually get used more for actual school work and you can still use your current method of internet access out of hours at home or the local library for everything else...)

lol I am still laughing about school books being heavy....

mauried writes...

What hi end applications are the school children going to be running

Things like photoshop, and other basic video editing

end of day its just a political stunt.

why dont they make HECS for teacher for free? that would definitly boost number of people going into teachers. but unless something benifits the mums and dads DIRECTLY then there are no votes in that.

Im in year 11, about to start year 12 (already started my HSC course), and agree with the point of why we need expensive laptops.

If students used them correctly, then an EEEPC901 would be sufficient, because it would be able to take the load of things like word07, photoshop etc. Or they could spend $550 (i think) instead of $500 and get an Acer netbook that is much meatier and will fly with XP instead of resource-hungry vista.

What I'm more interested in is how they will get VLKs for major softwares, like Windows, Office (unless they use Linux and OpenOffice, but no, i doubt it because they are not as "user friendly" as Windows and M$ Office). They will also most probably need to instal things like Photoshop (or the GIMP), and prevent the users from hacking them to gain the Office etc. keys that are being used, and to pirate legit copies of Windows and Office.

Plus you can't really effectively block the BIOS can you? I mean you can just take out the battery for 1 min, and it will clear out the settings?

geekygirl writes...

lol I am still laughing about school books being heavy....

Once you start going to the chiropractor after realising all the damage the heavy books have done, you'll wonder why we need laptops...

Personally at school, I've been using PDFs of my Maths, Commerce and Science textbooks and they've been just as, if not even more convenient than using the actual textbooks. Not only that, but I don't need to risk losing the textbooks. For subjects such as Maths, we shouldn't even need to use the textbooks too much because the teacher should be teaching, not the textbook. The textbook should only be there for reference and for the questions.

geekygirl writes...

Its called a pen and paper and if you cannot use one properly because you never had to at high school better not think about a career in aviation (my industry) for one thing.

Well maybe the students should all be given a livescribe pen?

Poor handwriting is a huge problem for students sitting the HSC. Many of them can't write fast enough for a sustained period to be able to complete extended response questions in their exams. This is in a school that does not have laptops.

Solution: Allow them to type their answers.

iNdIaN pRiDe writes...

Or they could spend $550 (i think) instead of $500 and get an Acer netbook that is much meatier and will fly with XP instead of resource-hungry vista.

They would never use vista with a netbook, they are stupid but not that stupid.

What I'm more interested in is how they will get VLKs for major softwares, like Windows, Office (unless they use Linux and OpenOffice, but no, i doubt it because they are not as "user friendly" as Windows and M$ Office). They will also most probably need to instal things like Photoshop (or the GIMP), and prevent the users from hacking them to gain the Office etc. keys that are being used, and to pirate legit copies of Windows and Office.

they would use oem editions of everything and they probably have something stopping students from stealing the keys. Right now there is software on school computers and what is preventing students from stealing keys? I can tell you that he students who would even think about stealing keys would pirate rather than attemp to get the keys.

licence is not a big cost. xp or office is $15 if you need media. If you don't it's less.

shifty asian writes...

Once you start going to the chiropractor after realising all the damage the heavy books have done, you'll wonder why we need laptops..

haha so at year 10 your going to the chiro already?? haha or are you some sort of psychic?

and lets see, last time i checked losing a $40 textbook is more preferential than losing $500 laptop haha and last time i checked textbooks wernt real high on the priority list for the gang bangers. ha. u can easily write your name on your textbook, people dont tend to steal textbooks, its more likely you lose them instead.

People need to realize it isn't the laptop that is going to cost $2000. It is only going to about $500 was there first quote. The rest of the money is being used to install wireless networks, upgrade power supplies and train teachers.

This is not some fancy high performance laptop

it will be a OLPC or another sort of netbook

Its going to be a crap netbook. For reliability they probably are going to use a solid state hard drive – great !
4or 8GB total storage – what are you going to fit into that ??!
Windows, Office, antivirus and a little bit of data : (

What a waste – a true vote buying exercise and the hardware pricing will go up 30% based on the Australian dollar. The kids will get crap but the support people will have long term jobs ; )

I also believe that no one manufactuer can provide enough personel to warranty service that number of systems for clearly little to no profit. What will the government do after the sale, when they are let down by a manufacturer they screwed down in price, when the amount of netbooks requiring servicing cant be serviced in an acceptable time ?
They certainly cant send them back : (

I hear 10% failure is being allowed for – $200 million of netbooks to be allowed for ?!
This is a rediculous waste of money – and needs to be spend (on top of additional student netbook purchases) every year ?!?
I didnt think Australia was THAT rich : (

chansthename writes...

Right now there is software on school computers and what is preventing students from stealing keys?

Blocked regedit. If you have the laptop at home, there are many ways, not to mention the time, that you could spend to get the key.

Another point: if they filter your internet by sending it through DET servers, isn't it an invasion of privacy cos ur not actually at shool anymore at home, and thus should be allowed to access whatever and whenever you want

EDIT: spelling

iNdIaN pRiDe writes...

if they filter your internet by sending it through DET servers, isn't it an invasion of privacy cos ur not actually at shool anymore at home, and thus should be allowed to access whatever and whenever you want

Nothing stopping you do that on your own computer. This is a work tool and it is planned for you to use it for work only.

iNdIaN pRiDe writes...

isn't it an invasion of privacy cos ur not actually at shool anymore at home, and thus should be allowed to access whatever and whenever you want

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that that is invading your privacy?

Stuart Midgley writes...

How is that going to work for kids doing graphic design? Or HD video work? Or wanting to develop games?

The same way it does now. Essentially it says – at a minimum – each student will have word-processing, emailing, web-browsing, etc... capabilities. You expect the government to shell out thousands for you just because you choose compute-intensive subjects? Well they have facilities at the schools for this and if you want to work outside of school then you provide yourself. Gees you can't just expect the government to support you, do something for yourself.

If the Government is going to restrict so much user access, why not supply the schools with the laptops so they can distribute them during class time, or supply more powerful desktops for schools that don't exactly have a fully equipped IT lab. Does every student really need their own personal laptop? What will the kids actually use it for?

whichever company gets the contract for this you better not want to have the same laptop, imagine the extra wait on warranty for another 200,000 laptops in nsw alone!!!.

The DET bought licence to XP Professional, or they are stuck with Linux for the OS. So no-go with Vista. Those laptops come in handy for many things school students require- they can only access their emails via DET Portal and there are going to be strict filtering such as installing games, porn, downloading torrents. Most schools now use an intranet network for connecting students with teachers as it offers students to view the school's resources and use them to submit assignments. Most students receive their laptops in year 9. By the time they reach year 12, these laptops will become obsolete.

associatedfan writes...

haha so at year 10 your going to the chiro already?

Indeed I am. My back's pretty fixed up now, especially since Year 10's over and I've already returned all my textbooks.

and lets see, last time i checked losing a $40 textbook is more preferential than losing $500 laptop haha and last time i checked textbooks wernt real high on the priority list for the gang bangers

Luckily I don't have any "gang bangers" in my school. And I guess it's harder to lose a laptop because:
A) There's a lot more emphasis on responsibility to take care of it.
B) You got games on the laptop, you want to make sure it doesn't get lost.

In my school, we're full of Asians (like me), and a large majority bring PSPs (not like me), and they lose textbooks a lot easier than PSPs. While your argument about theft seems slightly valid, there's no point in stealing since everyone gets the same laptop...

NotebookMaster writes...

4or 8GB total storage – what are you going to fit into that ??!

That is enough for pretty much every doc, xls, ppt and pdf I really need.

If you need more storage, look to the cloud. I am a long way off filling up my google account. Or the school could set up whopping great servers and the kids can store their stuff there via VPN or a VLE like Moodle.

Lot of naysayers here with very little imagination!

Does anyone know someone who has received one yet? if so what are the specs? surely it will not be an 8gb hard disk, all he new acer ones and ee pcs have at minimum a 120gb hd now.

Unless theyre buying old stock on the cheap.. Officeworks is flogging the 8gb eepcs for under $400 with a $59 cash back.

I know if i had gotten one of these while i was at school we would all be trading porn at lunch instead of playing footy.... good way to fatten students up i say.

Klamath writes...

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that that is invading your privacy?

At school we must log onto the DET servers, that act as a proxy, to access the internet. This is so that they can monitor our internet usage. I can handle that at school, but if a similar system is implemented built in to the laptops, I wouldn't want them to monitor all the websites I vist. Thus it is an invasion of privacy outside school hours.

Bloobeard writes...

Or the school could set up whopping great servers

At our school we only get a miserly 20MB. We've been arguing to upgrade to at least 100MB, and online network storage is blocked.

I think it could have been better spent. Say $700/800 to be spent on a note/netbook ($300/200? to schools to help with support etc) and then if you want one faster etc you pay for it yourself.

Bloobeard writes...

Or the school could set up whopping great servers and the kids can store their stuff there via VPN or a VLE like Moodle.

yes our government school already has moodle and to tell the truth it's not that great there is space for storage but its not very user friendly. But all schools have servers and storage space is very cheap these day. 8gb is more than enough for schoolwork and if you want extra space for your own stuff then buy a external HDD or a large flash drive.

iNdIaN pRiDe writes...

Thus it is an invasion of privacy outside school hours.

You are children, you have no privacy!... Seriously you have no rights to privacy at all in respects to what you do on equipment purchased by somebody else for you use, they are buying the equipment, they set the rules...

The issue is though whos equipment is it after its given to someone else.
If the Govt buys computers and then gives those computers to school children, then
the school children own the computers, nothing to do with the school anymore.
If the computers are merely being lent to the children, who is responsible if they are lost or stolen.
Whats to stop the school children selling their computers on ebay and buying Xboxes or Wiis with the money they receive.

mauried writes...

Whats to stop the school children selling their computers on ebay and buying Xboxes or Wiis with the money they receive.

1) They aren't likely to get much for them.
2) It will be obvious where it comes from.
3) Maybe there will be some sort of contract signed by the family receiving the laptop outlining their obligations.
4) Most likely, someone will spend more time thinking about the solution to this potential problem than you did writing a knee-jerk response

ok so why exactly do KIDS need laptops for?

apart from a few periods a week which actually relates to computers how can they justify the use of computers?

arent assignments still handwritten? so that they can help mark the student and correct them on handwriting as well as knowledge of topic?

do they no longer use their brains for mathematics?

do they now use google earth for geography?

seems like a good way to make kids stupid as this will only enforce cutting essential skills to cram more unneccessary crap into the syllabus.

even in the later years of highschool a computer would not be a neccessary item. i can see how a general knowledge of computers would suffice. but i fail to see how doctor, or a lawyer or even a tradesman would benefit from this as they all still rely on the most basic skills.