Whirlpool

I'm just in the middle of creating some aura statistics mainly because I have nothing better to do... anyway, so far I have:

Representatives
Whirlpool Staff

I've get on to the normal users either sometime today or tomorrow.

Mαtt writes...

I'm just in the middle of creating some aura statistics mainly because I have nothing better to do... anyway, so far I have:

Representatives
Whirlpool Staff

Cool.
Have fun.

Just a question. Which two staff didn't you include? (Your tally is 35 & there are currently 37 "Staff". :-)
You wouldn't want to upset a couple of mods now, would you?
Or Simon or Phil :-)

Just had a quick look at the Representatives chart, it seems these results are remarkably similar to these earlier ones.
I guess everything finds it's own level.
Looking forward to seeing your results.
Are you going to do all 257,850+ of us?
Cheers

Wow, well done!
How did you find all that info?
Interesting about the representatives mostly being on interderminate.

I will be looking forward to the normal users results, my guess will be either normal, light or bright will be dominant.

Well done Mαtt, thats a good job there! :)

Cy Kosis writes...

Which two staff didn't you include?

I'll go through it again... i must have skimmed over two people.... soz :-)

Cy Kosis writes...

Are you going to do all 257,850+ of us?

No way... just the 1,223 that are online now. And maybe more if I feel like it....

Mαtt writes...

No way... just the 1,223 that are online now.

Ok, well in the last 10 there are 10 Indeterminate & I suspect there will be many more.

═CPmaster═ writes...

I will be looking forward to the normal users results, my guess will be either normal, light or bright will be dominant.

Because of all the new & recently joined users, I suspect that Indeterminate will once again rein supreme.
Even throwing in a lot of off-line members this will still probably be the case because of the 1 issue members. (You know the ones. They join up for a quick fix then we never see them again.)
This will help skew the numbers towards No Aura being the most common.
Still, it's an admirable task Matt has undertaken & I'm looking forward to the results.
Cheers
Edited spelling & grammar

Cy Kosis writes...

This will help skew the numbers towards No Aura being the most common.

Yeah, that is a problem. I may or may not include users registered in the past week or so, but i'll see how I go.

If I don't, I'll just randomly select numbers that I haven't already taken an aura reading of.

Cy Kosis writes...

Because of all the new & recently joined users, I suspect that Indeterminate will once again rein supreme.

True, but Matt said he was going to just use the people online.
If all the users were calculated, yeah I reckon Indeterminate would definitely be dominant.

═CPmaster═ writes...

If all the users were calculated, yeah I reckon Indeterminate would definitely be

I'm up to the 70,000 mark on the users online list and it's:

1. Light
2. Indeterminate
3. Low
4. Bright
5. Normal
6. Luminescent
7. Incandescent (with only 2 people!)

BTW, i'm using a copy of the Users Online list which I saved to my HDD about an hour and a half ago.

Mαtt writes...

I'll go through it again... i must have skimmed over two people

Check your whim box mate.
It's been done for you (to save you a bit of time)
Cheers

═CPmaster═ writes...

but Matt said he was going to just use the people online.

That's not even 0.5% of the total population....

I'll agree with CK and say this is going to be extremely skewed data :)

═CPmaster═ writes...

True, but Matt said he was going to just use the people online.

Yes he did, from a screen shot of those at the time he started.

Currently the last 15 people online are all Indeterminate. I wonder if we did the last 50 how many would there be?
I suspect 50.

There are members here with user numbers in 3 figures who are Indeterminate.

I don't want to put Matt off.
As I've said, it's an admirable task.

Yeah, it's pretty skewed but when you consider barely 16,000 people on average are online a day..

I was mainly doing it (as skewed and innacurate as it will be ) to see how it compared to the older aura stats.

Maybe in the holidays I'll do a proper chart with at least 30k of people

Anyway I'm half done so off to bed... Ta ta for now..

Mαtt writes...

Yeah, it's pretty skewed but when you consider barely 16,000 people on average are online a day..

Many of whom would be the same ones too.

I was mainly doing it (as skewed and innacurate as it will be ) to see how it compared to the older aura stats.

Fair enough. as I said, an admirable task.

Anyway I'm half done so off to bed... Ta ta for now

Sleep well.

Sweet – I'm part of the majority. :P

Loctorak writes...

Sweet – I'm part of the majority. :P

Yeah, a huge majority of mods are Luminescent (22/37), Pervasively so winning 12-10.

/me puts on his sunglasses due to the light

Cheers

Loctorak writes...

Sweet – I'm part of the majority. :P

Ego maniac :)

Mαtt writes...

No way... just the 1,223 that are online now. And maybe more if I feel like it....

A couple of years ago Simon posted confidentialised Aura stats of the (then) WP membership. You can still download the data here:

/forum-replies.cfm?t=597789&p=6#r104

This was in reply to some analysis that "127.O.O.1" had done:

/forum-replies.cfm?t=597789#r1

http://www.craznar.com/content/wpaura.html

Maybe Simon could provide an update? But I doubt the percentages would have changed that much...

Mαtt writes...

Yeah, it's pretty skewed

as skewed and innacurate as it will be

I've been pondering this issue.
I don't think it will be as Skewed & Inaccurate as I (& others) may think, certainly not inaccurate anyway :-D

I would say that even if you added every user (a cut-off point is needed, say up to those who joined before midnight last night for an example) then, because of the 1 issue members & low posters, (not every one here posts on a regular basis, many just read the threads) there will always be a huge majority who many of us haven't seen posting.

15,124 visited yesterday. Were they all members or was it about 50/50?

There is currently 1009 members signed in & 1049 visitors logged on.

I went up to 50th from the bottom of the On-Line list. The member joined Nov 2 this year & has made 2 posts.
100th from the bottom joined July 16 & has 6.
Both are Indeterminate Aurawise.
Checked the 99th – 90th from the bottom & there are only 2 with Aura, both tentative (1 Light & 1 Low)

Up the top of the list there are 5 regular members online with Member numbers below the 1000 mark, so they've been here for a day or two.

May 2000, 5 posts, Indeterminate
May 2000 375 posts, Bright
June 2000 53 posts, Indeterminate
July 2000 7 posts, Indeterminate
July 2000 191 posts, Tentatively Bright.

So 3 out of 5 currently online 8 year veterans have no Aura.
2 of the 4 members between 1000 & 2000 have none.
3 of 6 between 1000 & 3000 have none.

My point I suppose is this, even using every members stats, because of new members, 1 issue & never come back members & low post members the No Aura will always be the majority.

So, IF you have an Aura rating, be it Low, Normal, Light, Bright, Luminous or Incandescent, you're in the minority.

Oh, & it doesn't stop any of us posting here or reading others posts, Aura or not.

Matt, have fun mate.
I'm looking forward to see the actual results as my figures are just a quick snapshot of a second in time.

Cheers

By the way, please forgive me if it takes a few days.... school and other committments rule my life unfortunately.

Mαtt writes...

By the way, please forgive me if it takes a few days.... school and other committments rule my life unfortunately.

I hate it when life interrupts my internet.
I shall ponder a solution for this devilish misfortune >;-)>

Cy Kosis writes...

I hate it when life interrupts my internet.
I shall ponder a solution for this devilish misfortune >;-)>

Its a four letter word that strikes fear and dread in some peoples hearts and has little reward other than maintaining ones inner being for yet another day .
The fact is we can damn it to hell we can refuse to participate and many of us spend more time trying to avoid it rather than actually doing anything productive or neccesary and as the advertisment goes "im doing it now " however being the kind and cuddly type i will not use the "word " dont want to frighten the kiddies now do i ?

Done....

Full chart at http://websitesconnect.net/img/wpaura.pdf

I didn't include about 20 people, because they had registered in the last month and all had Indeterminate Auras.

What I did find interesting though was that I found almost all users above about 230k had Low or Indeterminate auras.

Mαtt writes...

Done....

Cool.

Full chart at http://websitesconnect.net/wpaura.pdf

It be broken :-(

I didn't include about 20 people, because they had registered in the last month and all had Indeterminate Auras.

Ok, so you excluded non-auras.
How did this effect the final figures?

Cy Kosis writes...

Ok, so you excluded non-auras.

Not all – I excluded all which registered after the 25th of October which was about 2-

It be broken :-(

Whoops.... didn't upload. Sorry :-)

The URL should be http://websitesconnect.net/img/wpaura.pdf

Mαtt writes...

Not all – I excluded all which registered after the 25th of October

Ah, a cut off point.
Fair enough :-)

Whoops.... didn't upload. Sorry :-)

The URL should be http://websitesconnect.net/img/wpaura.pdf

It works now.
Cheers

EDIT:
So, the largest Aura group (excluding WP staff) for both reps & users is No Aura!
Hardly a shock, even with such a small sample size.
Less Lows than Lights too.

Nice job mate.
Well done

Mαtt writes...

http://websitesconnect.net/img/wpaura.pdf

Thanks Matt, interesting to see the distribution.

Although I do feel a bit foolish, since I always assumed that you moved up from bright to light, not the other way around (And I remember being tentatively bright once, and feeling peeved that people had voted me down :D)

Mαtt writes...

Full chart at http://websitesconnect.net/img/wpaura.pdf

Interesting to find that, if I was on then (not sure if I was), I would be one of only 30-40 people one the Luminescent level. Would have thought there would be more.

And there's only one or two Incandescents?

Not saying anyone should, but it'll be interesting to see what the figures are like for persuasive and tentative auras.

Ψ Fungus Ψ writes...

Not saying anyone should, but it'll be interesting to see what the figures are like for persuasive and tentative auras

Using the Mods stats, 5 of the 6 Incandescent, 12 of the 22 Luminescent & ½ the Brights are pervasive.

Loctorak writes...

Sweet – I'm part of the majority. :P

the majority? I've only been here a short time and seen that most moderators pat each other on the back repeatedly... maybe that's why its so high?

and the "majority" as you call it consists mainly of boys... very few women allowed into the secret club.

sandiessg writes...

the majority? I've only been here a short time and seen that most moderators pat each other on the back repeatedly... maybe that's why its so high?

Unlikely, however given that our aura is decided in the same manner as is yours, ie by the votes of the Whirlpool user base using the smiley voting system.

and the "majority" as you call it consists mainly of boys...

That may be your perception, but there are currently (and there has been in the past) quite a few female staff members*. However I think it unlikely that ones gender would affect the way in which someone may vote a smiley for you.

* Whirlpool is a equal-opportunities employer when considering new staff :-)

sandiessg writes...

I've only been here a short time and seen that most moderators pat each other on the back repeatedly... maybe that's why its so high?

Don't they only get to vote once for each person, same as the rest of us?

Or is this another facet of the GUWCTP?

sandiessg writes...

and the "majority" as you call it consists mainly of boys... very few women allowed into the secret club.

If it's mainly boys, then there must not have been many suitable female canditates when recruiting mods. The Librarian for example is female and without her Whirlpool would not be what it was today.

Master of Sinanju writes...

Don't they only get to vote once for each person, same as the rest of us?

Correct.

Or is this another facet of the GUWCTP?

There is no GUWPCT.

Master of Sinanju writes...

Don't they only get to vote once for each person, same as the rest of us?

oh, but the question is the weighting of that vote in the big all exciting secret aura formula as decided by the GUWPCT

For a more accurate statistic, I would have narrowed the results to those that have more than 50 posts and have been online in the last twelve months.

Brian writes...

oh, but the question is the weighting of that vote in the big all exciting secret aura formula as decided by the GUWPCT

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=WP_Aura

I don't see anything on here to suggest that anything underhanded is being done here.

It's pretty clear that Simon and the mods recognise aura is not flawless. It does greatly reduce the workload of the mods in relation to the off topic forum.

It's Simon's baby and we can either play by his rules or find somewhere else. Judging by the number of registered users and high numbers logged in at any given point, I think that Aura is not seen as a problem by most users.

Keep the discussion going by all means but allegations of secret formulas and prejudice by the mods does nothing to promote changes that might actually add value.

I have gone and looked at recent posts for a number of people in this thread who have queried their low aura. I must admit that I couldn't find anything that would have caused me to give a :( but at the same time, nothing to give a :D for either.

Maybe some earlier posts offended some people and over time aura will improve. As the Aura wiki explains, if there are only a few votes, bad feedback from a single person can be significant.

For a more accurate statistic, I would have narrowed the results to those that have more than 50 posts and have been online in the last twelve months.

A comparison between those with only a couple of posts and those with more as you suggest might be very informative.

I did think that the stats presented were for people actually logged in so the online is a given.

Hendikins writes...

There is no GUWPCT.

Agreed. I was of course referring to the GUWCTP, which is a different beast altogether.

Master of Sinanju writes...

but allegations of secret formulas and prejudice by the mods
what allegations??

The formula is secret, it's a well known fact. If not, please provide me with a link.
I'm not complaining, I'm just saying how can you suggest a change to a formula that you know nothing about.

I never said the mods had prejudice, although it is inherent in human nature. I just said that we don't know what weighting the mods vote has in the formula. I personally believe that if Simon has complete faith in his mods and their judgement then they should have a higher weighting. Why Not?

I don't see anything on here to suggest that anything underhanded is being done here.
Same here.

It's Simon's baby
Absolutely and that should never be forgotten by anyone that wishes to complain.

Hendikins writes...

There is no GUWPCT.
GUWPCT Those of us that have been around in whirlpool for many years know of the legend that told in stories around virtual campfires. The truth is out there, if you dare!

Brian writes...

The formula is secret, it's a well known fact.

True. I guess what I was saying is that just because the algorithym is not widely known, does not automatically mean it unfair or unreasonable.

Everything that I have gathered (not that it was a great deal) is that everyone gets one vote for each person, which they can renew, and or change as they see fit. Those votes are not cumulative. All votes, over time are reduced in weighting with newer votes being worth more.

I'm just saying how can you suggest a change to a formula that you know nothing about.

That's fair enough. I'm more interested in the discussion and information here on WP and personally have no problem with how aura has worked (bias, I know).

I just said that we don't know what weighting the mods vote has in the formula.

No we don't. That said, there are many fewer mods than there are WP users. My experiences with the mods have been entirely positive even if they wouldn't reinstate my completely reasonable posts <shakes fist at whatever powers may be>.

I approve of the job that the mods do and how they go about it, so even if their votes count for more, I don't think I'd be against that. But then in the real world, I probably have more trust for people like the police than many people. As a group the good they do, far outways the damage done by some unscrupulous individuals.

GUWPCT Those of us that have been around in whirlpool for many years know of the legend that told in stories around virtual campfires. The truth is out there, if you dare!

As I said previously, I was of course referring to something else entirely, what with the whole existential crisis of the GUWPCT. It may have had something to do with a car thread in ItN. :)

Master of Sinanju writes...

Agreed. I was of course referring to the GUWCTP, which is a different beast altogether.

There is no GUWCTP either.

Does that mean that my GUW has no compulsory third party insurance?

Crap, I've been throwing it around like it wasn't fragile.

Mαtt writes...

The Librarian for example was female

I'm pretty sure you don't lose your gender when you quit being a mod...

Anyway, the stats are interesting, alot more low's than I expected.

Spaztikdude writes...

I'm pretty sure you don't lose your gender when you quit being a mod...

LOL, probably not :D

Edited to reflect that.

Mαtt writes...

The URL should be http://websitesconnect.net/img/wpaura.pdf

That says the file is damaged and cannot be repaired. :(

Gator writes...

That says the file is damaged and cannot be repaired.

Odd... works for me ;-)

Gator writes...

That says the file is damaged and cannot be repaired. :(

Working here too.

Maybe your PDF reader is damaged & can't be repaired?

Cheers

Cy Kosis writes...

Maybe your PDF reader is damaged & can't be repaired?

So ignoring update requests for a year is bad mmmkay? :)

Gator writes...

So ignoring update requests for a year is bad mmmkay? :)

Only if you use Adobe PDF reader, or windows >;-)>

If you use Foxit PDF Reader then you don't get pestered about updates :-)

Small compact & opens Matt's pdf without bother.
Plus every other PDF I've ever needed to open too.

/forum-replies.cfm?t=1079595&p=22#r438

Marvin Martian writes...

0 – 40% = Low
40- 50 = Normal
50 – 65 = Light
65 -77 = Bright
78 – 88 = Luminescent
89 -100 = Incandescent

0 – 10 votes = Indeterminate
10 – 30 = Tentative
300+ = Pervasive

Here's a question.

If Aura is calculated on averages, what value is places on the :| smiley?

Is it -1, 0 or +1?

So, if someone had 50 x :| votes & no others, would they actually have an Aura level?

Cy Kosis writes...

If Aura is calculated on averages, what value is places on the :| smiley?

It works like this:

:( = -2
:| = -1
:) = +1
:D = +2

Obviously the emoticon itself is somewhat misleading.

So, if someone had 50 x :| votes & no others, would they actually have an Aura level?

Yes, it would be Normal or Low.

Loctorak writes...

It works like this:

:( = -2
:| = -1
:) = +1
:D = +2

Loctorak, thank you for your very prompt reply.
I thought this may have been the case.

Obviously the emoticon itself is somewhat misleading.

So it seems.

Even a :| (Typical User) vote is a negative vote :-(
Maybe it can be renamed to something like Only Slightly Irritating? (Although I don't really care for the wording for the :( emoticon, but that is a subject for another time)

This is something to ponder when allocating a vote.

So, if someone had 50 x :| votes & no others, would they actually have an Aura level?

Yes, it would be Normal or Low.

The average (in my example) would be -1 wouldn't it?
EDIT:
I forgot about weightings etc in the calculation of Aura.
It's not just a simple averaging of votes, otherwise all it would be is an average between -2 & +2.

I'm glad i don't have to work it all out.

So more probably a Low than Normal Aura?

Definitely something to ponder on me thinks.

Once again, thanks for the response :-)

Cheers

Loctorak writes...

:| = -1

Bugger. I've been treating that as neutral, ie. 0. It's where I go if I've given someone another vote that I think is no longer warranted. I didn't realise it was a negative for them. I might have to review some votes.

Is there any way to remove a vote, ie. take your vote back to 0?

CMOTDibbler writes...

Is there any way to remove a vote, ie. take your vote back to 0?

Of course you can. :)

Have a read of this.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=reset_aura_vote

Ψ Fungus Ψ writes...

Of course you can. :)

Have a read of this.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=reset_aura_vote

It does state that it may or may not actually nullify the vote (although I just removed your highlighted smiley on my screen mmmm, should I replace it? >;-)>) so that part works.

So, does it actually reset the vote? Or is it a case of sometimes yes/sometimes no?

Handy little script though. Thanks to the author :-)

Cy Kosis writes...

It does state that it may or may not actually nullify the vote (

I'm not sure, but it should be. Judging by the addition of the comment at the top by Thor, I don't think it actually nullify the votes.

I just removed your highlighted smiley on my screen

Why, oh why me? :P

I hope that no one else tries to nullify my votes see if it works...

Ψ Fungus Ψ writes...

Why, oh why me? :P

You posted the link >;-)>

Is ok though, it's been restored.

I hope that no one else tries to nullify my votes see if it works...

I can confirm that the emoticon highlight is indeed nullified so we don't need to pick on poor old Ψ Fungus Ψ.

*PS. How did you do on your final exams?

Cheers

Cy Kosis writes...

You posted the link >;-)>

Yeah. I wanted to help someone out and got this instead. ;)

*PS. How did you do on your final exams?

I think I'm fairly happy with it. :)

Ψ Fungus Ψ writes...

Yeah. I wanted to help someone out and got this instead. ;)

Is ok. As I said, it's been restored & anyway, no-one ever reads these threads >;-)>

I think I'm fairly happy with it. :) :-D

Loctorak writes...

It works like this:

:( = -2
= -1
:) = +1
= +2

and the rest of the formula is......

Ψ Fungus Ψ writes...

Have a read of this.

Thanks

Brian writes...

and the rest of the formula is......

... unknown to anyone other than Simon.

What is that comment about Dim and Dark Aura being removed due to political correctness..? I thought it was weird to have a "low" aura.

Hlevargr writes...

What is that comment about Dim and Dark Aura

I believe (before my time here) there were 2 levels below Normal but now there is only 1.

Why this was changed, other than the Political Correctness comments would no doubt be in one of the old threads.

Cheers

Hmm rather relaxed around here compared to Pervasively Low lol :)
Let's add a little 'Chi' shall we....?

So if Indeterminate is no Aura, then does that mean it's status is below Pervasively Low,
where at least some Aura has been proven to exist?
Given that the majority of members don't have any Aura ie. Indeterminate (70%?) Should members with Pervasively Low Aura be made to feel that they are rated above the majority of Whirlpool membership, say Top 30% in ranking?
I would imagine that belonging to the top 30% with other Aura ranks is a more positive and less demeaning method of looking after the membership, rather than saying they are in the bottom 0-40 range?
After all, we are continually being reminded how important perception is on Whirlpool :)

Moon writes...

Should members with Pervasively Low Aura be made to feel that they are rated above the majority of Whirlpool membership?

Well, they certainly attract more attention. ;)

Moon writes...

So if Indeterminate is no Aura, then does that mean it's status is below Pervasively Low,

Not really.
Indeterminate simply means Less that 10 votes whereas to get to Pervasively (Insert Aura level of choice) you have to get 300+ votes.

To get any aura you have to be noticed.

Moon writes...

say Top 30% in ranking?

Working on 2006 figures any aura puts someone in an even smaller minority.
How does 5.45% sound?

I would imagine that belonging to the top 30% with other Aura ranks is a more positive and less demeaning method of looking after the membership, rather than saying they are in the bottom 0-40 range?

I can see how that could be the case.

After all, we are continually being reminded how important perception is on Whirlpool :)

>;-)>

Moon writes...

After all, we are continually being reminded how important perception is on Whirlpool :)

Every comment one makes, if there is insufficient detail, the reader has to imagine the full context of that comment. This is were perception becomes reality and depending on the mood, it can go either direction.

Actuuuuly...

User #157064 542 posts
Nebby_99
Prime Gibbage
Whirlpool Enthusiast
:X :( :| :) :D

I'd be interested to see what went on in an a lounge that was only accessible to people with Low aura. It'd have to be unmoderated on account of the theoretically high moderation load of that group.

It would offset the feeling of exclusion some people seem to have with TPR, and it'd be interesting to see if even an 'exclusive club' on that end of the aura scale actually ended up being pretty civilised.

However if it ended up being really awesome, people would troll in order to gain access to it, which would be bad.

This is a very worthy thought from Neddy. A lounge in which all the "rabble" could be set free to play unmoderated with restricted access to certain forums and no means of reply. ;)

A bit like being in the brig watching the world pass by without any means of participation. Can't work out how they'd rise above it though.

Hlevargr writes...

What is that comment about Dim and Dark Aura being removed due to political correctness..? I thought it was weird to have a "low" aura.

Just as well we don't use the pink and blue separation then.

It would be MOST unfortunate if a PINKY was described as having a LOW aura. The Blues can grin and bear it.

Funny how DIM and DARK can be removed but LIGHT and BRIGHT remain. I'd like to see more dynamic terms, like PONDEROUS, EFFUSIVE. BELLIGERENT, SPONTANEOUS, MAGNETIC, AMAZING, PETROL-HEAD, PUBLIC-ENEMY, PARTY-POOPER, please feel free to add to the list.

bandb4 writes...

It would offset the feeling of exclusion some people seem to have with TPR

But at the same time leave Simon open to possible legal wrangles as discussion goes off the rails big time. Defamation, Religion, Gender, race, you name it.

It would be a worry that would bring zero benefit to whirlpool.

ItN can be bad enough, imagine it with no mods......

bandb4 writes...

PONDEROUS, EFFUSIVE. BELLIGERENT, SPONTANEOUS, MAGNETIC, AMAZING, PETROL-HEAD, PUBLIC-ENEMY, PARTY-POOPER,

VERBOSE? ;)

Cardinal Biggles writes...

VERBOSE? ;)

Your Grace, WP and I suppose you, conspired against me to conceal my reply, so I shall take that as a message and restrain myself in the vain hope that it may do something positive for my aura.

bandb4 writes...

conspired against me to conceal my reply

well, I DO have God on my side...
But seriously... (scratches chin thoughtfully), umm, there are a lot of verbose people on WP?:D

Cardinal Biggles writes...

umm, there are a lot of verbose people on WP?:D

Moi?

Cardinal Biggles writes...

there are a lot of verbose people on WP

Indeed.

:P

bandb4 writes...

Moi?

I'll say "non", on the basis of being too lazy to argue, and too busy to look for proof either way. lol

Sector 7 writes...

Indeed.

:P

Not entirely off topic but it seems there would be nothing to gain by reducing everyone to three word phrases. Or worse.

Surely that is part of the aura problem. That people do not choose their words for maximum efficiency placing them in such positions in the sentence, as to lead the reader to the crux of their communication.

I defy you to make that paragraph more efficient by eliminating non-essential words while retaining the meaning. :)

Cardinal Biggles writes...

VERBOSE? ;)

Oops

bandb4 writes...

Surely that is part of the aura problem. That people do not choose their words for maximum efficiency placing them in such positions in the sentence, as to lead the reader to the crux of their communication.

I defy you to make that paragraph more efficient by eliminating non-essential words while retaining the meaning. :)

Aura is perception.
Phraseology matters! (??)

>;-)>

There must be members in the Pervasively Low category whom don't deserve to be there although having to score (on balance) 300+ negative votes would suggest otherwise.
I would like to see a review process introduced which allows PL's to appeal. This is obviously not going to happen unless additional funding was made available for that purpose, as WP is trying to reduce the necessity for Moderation, not increase it.

If you believe in 'miracles'....:)

Posters in the P L category whom are not happy accepting their harsh 'sentence', which at a guess could be around 99% of them, could request a review of their last 20 posts.
They are then separated into 2 baskets.
1. – sorry :(
2. – further review :)

The reviewed candidates are assessed by say a panel of 3 Mods with a member's last 50 posts. If found unfairly treated for whatever reason, they are offered the option of being placed on voluntary probation and have their Auras listed as 'Tentatively Normal P' for a period of say 3-6 months or 50 posts?

Mods, members and guests are aware of the 'second chance- we may have misjudged you?) probationary tag, and hopefully will view their posts a little more sympathetically rather than perhaps being a trifle quick on the :( button.

Moon writes...

There must be members in the Pervasively Low category whom don't deserve to be there although having to score (on balance) 300+ negative votes would suggest otherwise.

There is nothing to say that someone with a "Pervasively Low" Aura has 300+ :( votes though.
They have over 300 votes in total, many of which may well be :) & :D votes.

It simply means that most of their votes are of the :| & :( variety.

They may well be 125/175 or closer to 150/150.
I doubt if any member has 100% of any particular smiley.

The reviewed candidates are assessed by say a panel of 3 Mods with a member's last 50 posts. If found unfairly treated for whatever reason, they are offered the option of being placed on voluntary probation and have their Auras listed as 'Tentatively Normal P' for a period of say 3-6 months or 50 posts?

I can see the reasoning behind this but there is a fatal flaw.
You will get some people who will spend a day or two writing "nice" posts then requesting a review.

Aura is the WP communities perception of us.
On all our posts, although granted, each member is going to vote (if they are inclined to) on the most recent they have seen of us.
Not everybody visits every lounge so they can easily miss someone's excellent posts in a thread or lounge they haven't seen.
This is again one of the flaws with Aura.
We only get a snapshot of someone unless we take the time to check out their posting history & we can only get the last 60 days (unless it's a long standing thread) or if we google search the poster.
Google however doesn't see every lounge so again we may miss out on their good posts.

Cheers

Brian writes...

But at the same time leave Simon open to possible legal wrangles as discussion goes off the rails big time. Defamation, Religion, Gender, race, you name it.

I did consider that, but given that the forum wouldn't be accessible to anyone who wasn't a registered WP member with considerably low aura, there would be less chance of someone being offended. I guess people wishing to complain about it elsewhere could take screenshots though...

At any rate, I agree that it'd be more trouble than it was worth.

Moon writes...

I would like to see a review process introduced which allows PL's to appeal.

I think every member has the power to change their aura. To get a Pervasive aura you have to have convinced at least 300 other people to vote for you.

although having to score (on balance) 300+ negative votes would suggest otherwise.

To get a PL aura, you merely need to have 300+ aura votes, and a majority of them negative (subject to the weakening of less recent votes modifier...). So maybe a lot of recent negatives, or a vast magority of older negatives with less more recent positives, totaling 300+ votes. Either way, either more negative trending positive, or more positive trending negative. In the first instance, trending away from PL to P-something else, and in the second instance a Low aura is probably an accurate representation of the posters recent behaviour (as judged by peers), and fairly easily reversable with more positive votes.

Edit: spilling

The current system does allow the opportunity to mend your ways and make a comeback.
Although some/many have successfully achieved this, and good on them, the flaw in the system that I see is that in order to reverse Pervasively Low, (although not completely accurate, you will get the gist of where I am coming from) is to score 300+ positive Aura votes to negate the damage already done and move into positive territory.
This means that not only do P L posters have to become non-controversial with their posted views, they have to be skilled enough to sufficiently impress the minority of viewers who bother to vote Aura anyway, into giving them a positive vote. Rather a tough assignment given that questionable 'communication skills' may have been a contributing factor leading to the downgrade?
I would imagine that the successfully 'reformed' P L's whom now reside in the 'Lights' had the skills capability, and possibly toned down their attitude problem?
They were able to be noticed and sufficiently impressive.
Not everyone has the potential to be able to achieve that, and recovering from – 300 votes certainly requires it. :)

It would take a lot more than just being a nice person.

Moon writes...

is to score 300+ positive Aura votes to negate the damage already done and move into positive territory.

Not necessarily new votes though.
A change in someone's vote from a :( to a :) is actually a +3 point turnaround.

10 of those is +30.

Not everyone has the potential to be able to achieve that, and recovering from – 300 votes certainly requires it. :)

Again, it is not necessarily 300 negative votes.
It is simply a majority of them.

As I said, I doubt if anyone on here has 100% of just 1 type of vote, be it :D or :(

Cheers

Sorry guys was in the process of writing last post and didn't get your explanations until after it was posted. I may be perceived as a dill at times...and I confess...on occasions it's true :)
more occasions than I'm prepared to admit to here :)
Thanks Cy Kosis and the Cardinal

Moon writes...

I may be perceived as a dill at times

We all can at times.

and I confess...on occasions it's true :)

Ditto :-)

You're welcome.

Cheers

what he said ^

Can somebody else please offer themselves up for scrutiny here – I'm taking a coffee break :)

Nebby_99 writes...

but given that the forum wouldn't be accessible to anyone who wasn't a registered WP member with considerably low aura, there would be less chance of someone being offended.

Now this is something worthy of further pondering.
A lounge for those of "low Aura" so they don't feel "rejected" by non access to TPR.

One problem I can see in this is, what about the "Non-Low" users, the 'Indeterminate', 'Normal' & 'Light' Auraed members who also don't have access to TPR* & now won't have access to the "fun" room?

Cheers

*I don't have access to the TPR.

Cy Kosis writes...

Aura is perception.
Phraseology matters! (??)

>;-)>

I am led to exclaim... OF COURSE IT DOES. Perception is in the mind of the beholder but the writer can ensure that the perception is the way it was intended. Need I say more?

Moon writes...

The current system does allow the opportunity to mend your ways and make a comeback.
Yeah, just stop saying what you think, nobody wants to hear it, they only want you to agree with them and then they will be happy, just go with the flow, like a drone and type with a monotonous smile.

Oh dear I'm in pleasantville!

I'll stick with a low aura thank you.

Cy Kosis writes...

One problem I can see in this is, what about the "Non-Low" users, the 'Indeterminate', 'Normal' & 'Light' Auraed members who also don't have access to TPR* & now won't have access to the "fun" room?

They are in the fortunate position of being more compliant than the average LOW aura individual and no doubt would accommodate your suggested aspersion with aplomb.

bandb4 writes...

Perception is in the mind of the beholder but the writer can ensure that the perception is the way it was intended

Yup, as many have said (me included) it's not just what's said but how it's said.
If we need an extra paragraph or two to reduce the risk of misinterpretation then write them.
It's not like we get charged double if we go over 160 characters.

Need I say more?

Only if you are so inclined :-D

Cheers

bandb4 writes...

no doubt would accommodate your suggested aspersion with aplomb.

Bugger that, give us a lounge too lol
>;-)>

Cy Kosis writes...

Bugger that, give us a lounge too lol
>>

aww look at that, the clouds were going South a minute ago, now they're going North... waving to Cy in his dungeon. >>

My mistake, he's up there on a cloud.

No blank? Oh the shame of the non-teccy...sorry!

I remain astonished at the fixation about auras, and specifically about how to get a better (higher) one.

For all the theory, don't you think that this:

Wile.E.Coyote writes...

... unknown to anyone other than Simon.

makes it a tad academic??

'Simon says' because Simon can;-he's perfectly entitled to!

I suspected this, and am comfortable with having it confirmed.

_______________________

Moon writes...

The current system does allow the opportunity to mend your ways and make a comeback.

'Mend your ways'!!!!! Is this what we've come down to? A cold day in hell springs to mind. I don't mend 'ways' that don't need mending thanks, and remain unconcerned whether you (general) think they need fixing!

_______________________

Brian writes...

Yeah, just stop saying what you think, nobody wants to hear it, they only want you to agree with them and then they will be happy, just go with the flow, like a drone and type with a monotonous smile.

Oh dear I'm in pleasantville!

I'll stick with a low aura thank you.

Bellissimo!!!

I had the system tell me it forgave me (love the humour!) for posting twice.

I didn't understand;-I th