Whirlpool

Continues from /forum-replies.cfm?t=1082349

Before I go on...

Do not, I repeat do not post any sites that are inappropriate or NSFW. If you do, your post will be deleted and you may be penalty boxed at the discretion of the moderation team

Discussions

• ISP-Level Filtering Discussion Part 8
• ISP-Level Filtering Discussion Part 7
• ISP-level Filtering Discussion Part 6
• ISP-level Filtering Discussion Part 5
• ISP-level Filtering Discussion Part 4
• ISP-level Filtering Discussion Part 3
• ISP-level Filtering Discussion Part 2
• What Happened to ISP Level Filtering?

Links

• Cleanfeed wiki entry
• ISP Positions on the Cleanfeed
• Action and Facts (NOT for general discussion)

Poll – Do you support ISP Level Content Filtering

Results from the previous thread:
From Part 5
Yes: 6
No: 324
Filtered Candy: 5

From Part 7
Yes 6
No 230
Filtered Candy 2

From Part 8
Yes: 8
No: 267
Filtered Candy: 0

Everytime I think of this, it just pisses me off. If this goes through, little kittens are going to die...

From Part 8 (so manually quoted)

Pleiades wrote:

> The Federal Member for Sydney (Labor), Tanya Plibersek, had a stall
> at the festival. Did you manage to have a word with her?

I didn't spot her stall though didn't stroll around the whole venue as it was just so packed. We weren't allowed to distribute the material inside the venue so targetted people leaving and hopefully not in a hurry as experience showed people walking to it didn't want to be interrupted on their journey.

Pyrmont Village was going to talk to the people at The Greens stand and others though.

I have also been raising awareness through another hobby group I am in, Australia wide probably 200 readers.

Zarrix writes...

If this goes through, little kittens are going to die...

LOL, probably quite a lot of kittens.

Is this the filter petition everyone is talking about? I got this via email

http://petitions.takingitglobal.org/oznetcensorship

Have signed it. Over 17,000 names so far well done

John67 writes...

Is this the filter petition everyone is talking about?
Read the wiki. There are at least three petitions.
/wiki/?tag=cleanfeed

Whats the point in this filter?

Ill just connect to my Dedicated Server in the Netherlands via VPN.

Im really starting to dislike Kevin.

I was thinking, his son plays World of Warcraft (True story, I saw footage of him on the news with an epic loot T-Shirt on), so when he complains one morning that he is getting over 9000 latency, he is bound to reverse the filter -_-.

Kipps writes...

Read the wiki. There are at least three petitions.

/wiki/?tag=cleanfeed

PCWorld is also running a petition.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/hands_off_the_internet

Though you need to sign up with PCWorld to sign the petition.

Zarrix writes...

over 9000 latency

lol

I am awaiting a reply from both the Labor party and the Liberal Party regarding this issue. I really let rip at Labor (but stopped short of swearing of course), don't know if it was the best option, but hopefully they have received a few nasty e-mails. Well I also asked the Liberals about their stance regarding the issue. Nothing will come out of this most likely, but fingers crossed for some good news

Unfortunately this scheme only posted a blip on the media radar =( Hopefully we can create more noise when Conroy proposes to proceed with the trials.

After all the anger here who is really getting out and doing something about it. Great, let's vent our anger in whirlpool which most people will never see.

Let's simplify this for the masses.

Question 1: The internet will be censored. Do you agree.

If yes, please collect your Chinese residency visa from the nearest consulate.

If no, proceed to question 2.

Question 2: Are you prepared to do anything about it?

a) contact your local MP or senator and raise concerns
b) contact your local radio station or newspaper and raise concerns
c) do letterbox drops in your neighbourhood to raise awareness
d) hand out pamphlets at some event
e) no, stuff it, won't happen anyway

If e), please collect your Chinese residency visa from the nearest consulate.

Seriously, bitching on WP achieves nothing. Unless we are prepared to get people involved and voice our complaints then all this forum achieves is making us feel good about bitching about it. If you aren't prepared to be active in some way then you might as well not be here.

Even Derspatz signed the petition I posted .... A vain attempt to mock the fact I was trying to help the exposure of the filter. And we know where he stands

John67 writes...

Is this the filter petition everyone is talking about? I got this via email

http://petitions.takingitglobal.org/oznetcensorship

Have signed it. Over 17,000 names so far well done

Well done doing nothing!
There is no such thing as an internet petition. That is not even a real petition and will do absolutely nothing. If you want to do something organise your own real petition and get a few hundred (over 1,000 would be nice) signatures. Send it to your local MP with a request to the minister to table/present it in parliment.

Here is a guide for a petition

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/INFO/infosheets/is11.pdf

"The Reason and Request must not exceed 250 words" so it will have to be short and to the point.

I think what we need is for someone, perhaps Mark but could be anyone with a thorough knowledge of the issue to draft a petition.. Once the majority of us are happy with it and that it addresses our concerns (technical, tax waste, liberty etc) then we should all use it to take around our workplaces and get as many signatures as possible.. A real petition requires signatories addresses as well. Then we put them all together (hopefully with several thousand signatures) and send them to an MP to present to parliament. Of course CC the petition to all newspapers etc.
We will need one petition distributed to all and not modified so that it can be presented as ONE petition.

Mr Bubbles writes...

Well done doing nothing!

There is no such thing as an internet petition. That is not even a real petition and will do absolutely nothing. If you want to do something organise your own real petition and get a few hundred (over 1,000 would be nice) signatures. Send it to your local MP with a request to the minister to table/present it in parliment.

Our local member Jennifer Rankine is as useless as wet toilet paper, oh hang on I think she lost that job to another ...

Mr Bubbles writes...

I think what we need is for someone, perhaps Mark but could be anyone with a thorough knowledge of the issue to draft a petition..

+10 excellent suggestion !!!!

Kjaere writes...

+10 excellent suggestion !!!!

Yes, would be nice to give it to Conroy to present it to parliament.. Really rub his nose in it. However, reading up on some stuff the MP that presents it can speak a bit about it so maybe better to give to an MP (must be in the house of Reps so cant be Ludlam) of the opposition or someone sympathetic.

Mr Bubbles writes...

Yes, would be nice to give it to Conroy to present it to parliament.. Really rub his nose in it.

lets see what mark says to it, ideally he is a keen advocate for free speech so he probably would be the best to at least commit to a draft, then pass it on to some one with legislative experience to glean over it i think

Zarrix writes...

Unfortunately this scheme only posted a blip on the media radar =( Hopefully we can create more noise when Conroy proposes to proceed with the trials.

The main reason is that nothing concrete has actually been proposed yet. Instead we just have a minister with a vague wish list. Any attempt to get more detail is countered with oh, we're still working out the details, please wait until the trials. So there isn't much for a journalist to write about. As soon as Conroy coughs up some draft legislation or something, the issue should attract more attention.

Zarrix writes...

Everytime I think of this, it just pisses me off. If this goes through, little kittens are going to die...

+1, I also hate cats +2.

Surely Conroy has half a brain and consulted experts in the field, and not experts from companies flogging their wares. Which begs the question, what really is the agenda behind this stupidity? I mean it just doesn't make sense.

Seems to me the ISP filtering issue is an attention diverter?

How do you make a cat go "woof"
Lighter fuel and a match.

Sorry cat lovers

ChipZ writes...

Seems to me the ISP filtering issue is an attention diverter?

noe the government is serious this is no diversion, they want to make .au a police state ...

ChipZ writes...

Surely Conroy has half a brain and consulted experts in the field,

He did, and they all told him it was a rubbish idea, but since they didn't give him the answer he wanted he has ignored them in favour of people who will give him the answer he wants, adn strangely enough they also appear to be the same people flogging the filter gear. Just who would have thought aye?

Which begs the question, what really is the agenda behind this stupidity?

The deals he cut with independant members to back the government, "you scratch my back, I screw everybody else up the......" well you get the idea anyway

Steve the (original) name pirate

Steve writes...

The deals he cut with independant members to back the government, "you scratch my back, I screw everybody else up the......" well you get the idea anyway

Steve the (original) name pirate

So, optimisticly you would be expecting the ALP to drop this policy as soon as they get a majority in the senat?

The Age –
Government uploads hypocrisy with internet censorship
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/government-uploads-hypocrisy-with-internet-censorship-20081109-5kuz.html?page=2

Sleep is for the weak or slightly comatose.

Can't stop smiling at this quote from our favorite person;

BEFORE this year's Beijing Olympic Games, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd chastised the Chinese authorities for blocking full access to the internet for the assembled world media: "My attitude to our friends in China is very simple", he said. 'They should have nothing to fear by open digital links with the rest of the world during this important international celebration of sport.'

Jomo Hesus writes...

There is no such thing as an internet petition. That is not even a real petition and will do absolutely nothing. If you want to do something organise your own real petition and get a few hundred (over 1,000 would be nice) signatures. Send it to your local MP with a request to the minister to table/present it in parliment.

Look in the Wiki, there's a link to a real hardcopy petition to be tabled in the House of Reps.

i cant believe this is actually happening, i thought it was just a theory that would get knocked down straight away...

i don't know why the media aren't headlining these stories rather than useless stories like cats stuck in trees

the government is taking away our freedom one piece at a time, i also noticed with this new labor government that a lot of their policies somehow tie into 'preventing child pornography'?! they spin it in such a way that if you don't support them, you are supporting child pornography.

"As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
-Adolf Hitler

cows go moo writes...

i cant believe this is actually happening, i thought it was just a theory that would get knocked down straight away...

Strangely enough it is, I suspect that it will happen and a good chunk of the internet users won't notice and won't care.

they spin it in such a way that if you don't support them, you are supporting child pornography.

and the liberal party is doing ...

Gen-Y hasn't got the stomach for politics and the politicians know it.

basil00 writes...

Talking of media being quiet ...

The main reason is that nothing concrete has actually been proposed yet. Instead we just have a minister with a vague wish list. Any attempt to get more detail is countered with oh, we're still working out the details, please wait until the trials. So there isn't much for a journalist to write about. As soon as Conroy coughs up some draft legislation or something, the issue should attract more attention.

Why do I get the impression that Conroy is going to say nothing until the day he brings it before Parliament.

The trials will be done on the quiet, he hopes.

Maybe he will use that ISP that provides filtering services already for the whole of the filtering trial and claim resounding success. No one even noticed any difference before/after the trial.

They (that ISP) stand to gain if every ISP has to filter as then every other ISP will have to charge as much as they do and more people may actually use them.

But yes Conroy knows he is pushing sh*t uphill and to say anything is to put stumbling rocks in his path.

If Conroy gets filtering in then he will have to change his departments name to Department of Propaganda and Digital non-Communications.

cows go moo writes...

i don't know why the media aren't headlining these stories

unbiased opinions & discussion will be gone, letting the media tell us whatever they want to. and don't for a second think that all these media outlets are independently owned...

I think it'd be hard to make people averted to a specific ISP in a more efficient way than phil has done on whirlpool.

.. and whirlpool has a few visitors.

phil@netxp writes...

Gen-Y hasn't got the stomach for politics and the politicians know it.

Neither have you, those that run ISP's.

So shut up.

EDIT: Because you couldn't be bothered emailing all your customers about the issue, so the issue is known more than just on WP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A brief lesson on the practicalities of internet filtering/censoring for the current Australian government: By UserFriendly

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20081109&mode=classic

Full Metal Racket writes...

I thought you were FOR the the filter?

I got the impression that Phil didn't care either way.

coza73 writes...

A brief lesson on the practicalities of internet filtering/censoring for the current Australian government: By UserFriendly

Nice

Possible story angles for the media

• Hillsong supports censorship for all of Australia. How well does it work for their membership?
• Pro forma replies hide dissent in the ALP over Internet censorship.
• Is your business on a secret internet blacklist yet?
• Ulterior motives? Why lobby groups like the AFA and ACL oppose free speech.
• Let's break the online bank. ACMA tested filters which would make all online businesses appear to be Phishing scams. What would happen?
• Disney vs the Home Video. Media moguls' quiet manoeuvres in support of mandatory internet censorship ... and the potential chilling effects on democracy through obstructions to independent video production and sharing.
• Senator Conroy stalling on the next step towards the Internet Barrier Reef. Is he waking up to the technical, legal and administrative problems; to dissent in the party over the anti-democratic nature of censorship; or to the condemnation that 9 million Australian internet users will heap on him when they start experiencing the effects?

More?

The government has to be seen to be doing something even if it is not doing something . An election promise may never happen .

ChipZ writes...

what really is the agenda behind this stupidity?

Agenda:

1. Appease the Hillsong crowd – the religious fundamentalists / social conservatives – who traditionally view the ALP as promoting excessively liberal policies, in order to get / stay elected.

2. Appease the ALP Right Faction (of which Conroy is a member), which is dominated by religious conservative union leaders such as Joe der Bruyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_de_Bruyn).

3. Increase government control over a relatively open (and therefore threatening) information distribution system.

**edit: how many "i"'s in "religioioius"?

neilmc writes...

I got the impression that Phil didn't care either way.

I do care, the way I see it, why can't gen-y stand up and fight for something?

When I was in my 20's, I fought for my political rights, why can't you guys do something for yourselves? You might even find that being an agitator is fun.

Sostenuto writes...

Possible story angles for the media

More?

The government is wavering on their attempt to put the internet genie back into their bottle of control.

OR

The government's attempt to filter the internet is becoming a case of vaporware as their elusive EOI (for filtering trials) fails to materialise. How many more announcements of imminent release of the EOI document will we see before the Government admits that Censorship is a bad idea?

OR

Is the Government's election promise of Mandatory Censorship of the internet going the way of NBN – down the drain of unattainable election promises. Call for independent body to manage the nations Broadband internet.

EDIT: added another

Maxwell Smart writes...

PCWorld is also running a petition.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/hands_off_the_internet

Though you need to sign up with PCWorld to sign the petition.

There is an official petition located at: http://www.wakinggiant.org/au_censorship.htm

It's a little more legit than any online petition.

phil@netxp writes...

When I was in my 20's, I fought for my political rights, why can't you guys do something for yourselves? You might even find that being an agitator is fun.

Why have you stopped?

Why didn't you continue doing that with the internet – the internet being big?

...... no answer......

I found this information very interesting – it's a European Commission white paper about the very same issue... and why they're NOT filtering European Internet in the very way Sen. Conroy has suggested for Australia.

http://ec.europa.eu/archives/ISPO/legal/en/internet/communic.html#E81E9

One section a bit higher on the page than the link I sent says:

"One general conclusion is that any regulatory action intended to protect minors should not take the form of an unconditional prohibition of using the Internet to distribute certain content that is available freely in other media . Another conclusion is that existing rules on content regulation need to be examined to see whether they can be applied by analogy, and that the most restrictive rules should not be applied simply because of Internet's wide potential reach.

Reflecting similar concerns elsewhere in the World, in the United States, a District Court ruled the key provisions of the Communications Decency Act intended to protect minors to be unconstitutional, relying on the principle of free speech in the First Amendment to the US Constitution. (18) The Act was held to have been drafted too widely, because although it was legitimate to protect minors, host service providers could not identify whether a user was a minor, so that in practice "adult" content could not safely be published at all, thus interfering with constitutionally protected free speech."

This sums up exactly why I'm against this proposed filter, and it is a very well worded document that shows the concern for the minors, yet outlines why this is not the step to take.

[edit due to a silly grammatical mistake!]

fair dinkum man writes...

Is the Government's election promise of Mandatory Censorship of the internet going the way of NBN – down the drain of unattainable election promises.

Probably, just because about $44 million is allocated to it does not mean that it will go ahead, this economic recession will probably cause the money to go elsewhere. NB. I said probably , things may still go ahead.

Excel Cat writes...

because although it was legitimate to protect minors, host service providers could not identify whether a user was a minor, so that in practice "adult" content could not safely be published at all, thus interfering with constitutionally protected free speech."

Agreed, these days fashions don't leave much to the imagination .

Are fashions going to be banned or filtered ?

The Chinese people's only means of "Democracy" is to petition their government and hope that they listen.
I certainly do feel like all options that are available to Australians on this issue is to simply file petitions to our governments and receive the similar corresponding insult of a form response on government policy (no integrity or honesty in acknowledging their shortcomings and their ignorance) ...and await an almost certain doom.

Since both major parties aren't really coming out much different on this -the Liberal party also tried it and are reticent in stating a strong opposition (yes they eventually buried the policy but still subsidised the ignorant parents)-it certainly seems as though we are now like the Chinese, who are essentially reduced to grovelling at the feet of their government, no matter how obvious the ignorance and stupid the policy.

phil@netxp writes...

why can't gen-y stand up and fight for something?

If you want to have a good old bash at "Gen-Y", then you really should head over to the News.com.au opinion section and write a few pieces for them...they'll be ever so grateful.

This thread is about Conroyboy's internet censorship. "Gen-Y" aren't the ones to blame for that, are they?

I notice that the Labor party website hasn't been updated for a couple of days
http://www.alp.org.au/action/whatsay.php
I did post on there questioning Conroys miss use of facts especially compulsory filtering overseas.
Don't expect it to be posted as the site says
"NOTE: Selected & edited feedback is posted on this site (http://www.alp.org.au/action/whatsay.php)"

But to do this Some one will have to read my comments so thats one more who will Know :)

so either they are slack in updating there site or people are not happy with them

Of course they could already be using their new filter and nothing can get through to them :)
bip

Excel Cat writes...

I found this information very interesting – it's a European Commission white paper about the very same issue... and why they're NOT filtering European Internet in the very way Sen. Conroy has suggested for Australia.

http://ec.europa.eu/archives/ISPO/legal/en/internet/communic.html#E81E9

Yes, I placed similar links yesterday late night on Part 8, just on the page before the last one (in case someone missed it) and they ARE VERY INTERESTING (perhaps our politicians should take some example in harmony with the rest of the world, instead of applying laws in a fascist fasion):
Here they are again :

European Commission Report (prepared in Dublin):
http://ec.europa.eu/avpolicy/docs/reg/minors/useinternet1streport_ie.pdf
(see specifically pages 30 & 48)

European Stand about Blacklisting & Freedom of Information:
(Point 4. IDENTIFYING AND COMBATING ILLEGAL CONTENT ON INTERNET
4) Blocking access at the level of access providers)
http://ec.europa.eu/archives/ISPO/legal/en/internet/communic.html#E81E7

and Point 5 (same page). DEALING WITH HARMFUL CONTENT ON INTERNET
http://ec.europa.eu/archives/ISPO/legal/en/internet/communic.html#E81E7

They could be a great helping foundation in preparing letters & reports -even technical ones- as these documents were prepared by experts too.
Latin-American countries and other 3rd ones unfortunately do not have similar comprehensive Reports on this level that can be viewed. If I find one, I will upload it immediately. ;-)

Received a template reply to my posted letter from Sen. Claire Moore's office. See score card wiki.

Carlos writes...

placed similar links yesterday

Sorry Carlos – got into work this morning & we were already on 9 & I won't get a chance to read through it all so I missed your post!

I think this article may prove to be key to the cause, as it is an effective debate and has taken into account both sides of the issue.

Essentially, it says about the Pro's & Con's about the whole thing, and then says why not to go ahead with it.

[edit – about is not spelled 'abotu']

Excel Cat writes...

Essentially, it says abotu the Pro's & Con's about the whole thing, and then says why not to go ahead with it.

Yes, also the report on PDF prepared in Dublin is very comprehensive (except those Irish forgot to place the year...LOL..tipical...LOL) but it seems to be made in 2008 for the EC. It is excellent!!!!

If you have a chance, do not miss to read the pages I mentioned before. Thanks. ;-)

pd) Some spelling mistakes are common in the European Union as they come from Translators that need to to their job with thousand of pages...(I used to be one of them and it is a very hard job)

I have been trying to come up with an analogy to help when talking to non-tech folks.

Here is the first pass at it:

• It is found that there is a minority of road users that drag race and generally hoon around, this is considered dangerous.
• Government decides to make everyone safer my reducing the speed limit by 80% on Freeways only. Speed limit is now 20kmh.
• The more knowledgeable hoons, the ones that know how to avoid the police are unaffected as they did not use the freeways to begin with. That is where the police patrol.
• The less knowledgeable hoons now hear about the drag meets that are run in secret, they move their activities off the freeway to the secret meets.
• The new law is declared a success because it has cut drag racing on freeways by 90%
• The secret drags meets grow in popularity now that the new recruits realise that they are less likely to be caught, more fun less risk.
• Average road users, while not into drag racing, avoid the freeways and use the side streets and highways.

As a result of the new measures it is observed:

• Drag racing on freeways is reduced by 90-95%, but still a small minority of hoons (the less informed) continue to use the freeways for drags.
• Safety on the freeways is improved by a small amount, but it is not 100% safe. There are still drink drivers, car jackers and road ragers to worry about.
• Everyone is frustrated by the new 20kmh speed limit, as it only slows the law abiding freeway drivers.
• Many people get lost when travelling on freeways as some road signs have been taken down.
• It seems that the missing signs may have pointed to a road that might be used for drag racing possibly. No one will say for sure, or if they even acknowledge they existed previously.
• Some businesses go broke as noone can find them due to the missing signs, florists wonder what they have done to support drag racing hoons.

Oh, and... Responsible parents still chauffeur their under 18 year children around on the freeways as they don't think the freeways are safe enough for them to be driving alone.

Alright Guys,

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/government-uploads-hypocrisy-with-internet-censorship-20081109-5kuz.html?page=-1

I have just uploaded this article to the popular mainstream aussie digg like site

http://www.kwoff.com/

The Dynamics are the same, just vote this baby up and we Amplify the message outside of Here.

Don

edit: clarity and woeful spelling

That's a great analogy cw.... the catch with Australia is that our career politicans are ignorant of everything under the sun and in correlating proportion are very eager to exert power over Australians. The easiest and laziest policy is simply to ban, or take things away, which is their preferred method of governing.it doesn't help that the government keeps telling people that it can improve Australia by doing this.

cows go moo writes...

"As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

-Adolf Hitler

Interesting that this quote is being used a lot. It's become my favourite

Pyrmont Village writes...

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/government-uploads-hypocrisy-with-internet-censorship-20081109-5kuz.html?page=-1

That is a brilliant article – I'm glad someone in the media is thinking this way!

Awesome Response Guys.

Love your Work. Keep Voting http://www.kwoff.com/

Now Lets Blog the heck out of that Age Article.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/government-uploads-hypocrisy-with-internet-censorship-20081109-5kuz.html?page=-1

That piece is nicely balanced .

Has Media Watch commented on this at all?

Excel Cat writes...

I'm glad someone in the media is thinking this way!

It's not from a journalist though.

It's opinion by

Antony Loewenstein is the author of The Blogging Revo-lution, published by Melbourne University Press.

Still good.

John67 writes...

Has Media Watch commented on this at all?

Not to my knowledge.

And I think this week is the last for Media Watch before the show takes a break, if I heard the end of the last show correctly.

Nice work Mark! :
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/10/2414895.htm

Duplicate content filter will hurt family-friendly ISPs

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/88655,duplicate-content-filter-will-hurt-familyfriendly-isps.aspx

Filter plans a step too far: NetRegistry

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/soa/Filter-plans-a-step-too-far-NetRegistry/0,130061744,339293109,00.htm

neilmc

I am afraid that you are giving modern day post internet age journos, WAY TOO much credit.

Whats the diference between a thoroughly well researched and well balanced piece like Anthony's and any other piece written/pushed out by so called journos???

Scott writes...

Nice work Mark! :
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/10/2414895.htm

+1

Very well written.

Scott writes...

Nice work Mark! :
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/10/2414895.htm

yes indeed .. kudos mark for the nice article and to scott for being it to our attention..

added to http://fm2000.netzblick.de/filter-c.php ongoing links page which compliments the links given on page 1 of this thread and is being updated regularly .. includes podcasts of radio interviews available which may not be available elsewhere, my way of helping out

Okay Posted Mark's ABC's piece also to http://www.kwoff.com/

GO Now and Vote that Baby Up Also.

Both the Age Article and this ABC piece, provide an excellent demo job on the PR that family first have put out in the Media.

SO People lets blog the Heck out of them Also.

Pyrmont Village writes...

Whats the diference between a thoroughly well researched and well balanced piece like Anthony's and any other piece written/pushed out by so called journos???

None..... except that it gets tagged with Opinion

It's very valid opinion, but being labeled like that means that the paper has put no effort or resources into fact checking it and will not stand behind the content in it. The content may well be well researched and 100% correct. Some opinion pieces are absolute nonsense (eg Anh Nguyen on the ABC website)

The quality of opinion articles and columns varies massively in print and online press. Being tagged like that will cause many readers to see it as less valid.

Pyrmont Village writes...

I have now created an account there and voted + comment

Pyrmont Village writes...

GO Now and Vote that Baby Up Also.

Done & done :)

Awesome Lads.

Keep it Coming.

Apparently Kate Ellis being the youth Minister means she should have no say in the filter. frankly im quite disgusted with this attitude. if the filter is about protecting the children, then surely the Youth Minister is exactly the kind of person who should have a say.

Also got a reply from Nick Minchin today. have highlighted the new part that wasnt on the previous form letter. plus it was slightly more personalised and indicated the person reading it at least skimmed my letter.

Dear [Name]

Thank you for your letter of 5 november in which you express your views in relation to the Federal Government’s plans to introduce a mandatory internet filtering system in this country. I appreciate the significant level of research that you have included for my benefit.

There are many concerns in the community both about the effect of this measure on system performance and the manner in which a blanket arbitrary determination about web content will be imposed by the Government.

Internet Service Providers are also understandably concerned about the impact that Labor’s scheme will have on business.

The Coalition fully supports guarding our children from being exposed to inappropriate internet content, and is of the firm belief that parental and adult supervision and guidance should be front and centre of all efforts.

We also believe that in relation to criminal conduct online, our nation’s law enforcement bodies should be adequately resourced to monitor and investigate unlawful activity.

On 28 July, the Government announced it was seeking expressions of interest for participants in a live pilot trial for its filtering concept after conducting limited laboratory tests.

The Coalition will monitor the progress of this trial with great interest and make a considered assessment based on its outcomes. This will include analysis of the specifications and performance of the filtering methods tested.

I have indicated publicly that the Coalition has serious reservations about Labor's scheme and that we will take some convincing before we could support it.

Thank you again for taking the time to express your views on this issue, which will be taken into account when the Coalition makes its final assessment of the Government’s plan.

Yours sincerely,
[Hand signed]
Nick Minchin.

Pyrmont Village writes...

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/government-uploads-hypocrisy-with-internet-censorship-20081109-5kuz.html?page=-1

That was a great article. Covered a lot of the relevant points. Is it actually in print as well, or just an online article?

Mark, you have a way with words.

"I'm not talking about normal, everyday wrongness. I'm talking about the kind of wrongness that comes with its own theme music and marching band."

Epic.

NonSequitur writes...

Is it actually in print as well, or just an online article?

I'd be surprised if it got printed in any newspaper. It SHOULD be.

Pyrmont Village writes...

I have just uploaded this article to the popular mainstream aussie digg like site

Don, are you affiliated in some way with kwoff? You've posted a link to it around 9 times already in this discussion.

Can somone in Melbourne buy the paper, and verify.

Don, are you affiliated in some way with kwoff? You've posted a link to it around 9 times already in this discussion.

Spart I wish Stephen Mayne was paying me some Money...lol

I won't elaborate further suffice to say my day gig is SEO..

It was through that endeavour that I also realised that various professional political hacks and Pr Types hang out there...

So now when I need to get an optimised message out, here in OZ, Its one of the channels I use...

edit: clarity

Alright guys... I just got a 10 page reply from Kevin Rudd's Griffith office. Seems like a lot of it is canned response... But I think there's a lot of new stuff in there too. I'm gonna have a read of it and then I'll see if I can scan it or something.

They also enclosed a 20 page booklet entitled "Quality Education: The Case for an Education Revolution in our Schools". I'll see what I can do to get this stuff up and available...

Edit: OK – on 2nd look, almost all of it is canned response. And the reason it's so long is because I suggested in my letter that they spend the money on something that will make a difference – such as education or the health system. From page 2 onwards is pretty much just automated response to how great their education policy is. I guess that explains the 2nd booklet.

phil@netxp writes...

Strangely enough it is, I suspect that it will happen and a good chunk of the internet users won't notice and won't care.

People won't notice that they can't get to sites they normally go to, and that everything just got significantly slower? Yeah, right!

John67 writes...

Has Media Watch commented on this at all?

I emailed them last week asking them to do a piece about it on their last show of the year tonight... I haven't heard anything back so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Queeg 500,

I just tried calling them earlier and after a very long ring, got the AM, which asked if I wanted to provide a tipoff...lol

SO no love there....

zoltae writes...

"I'm not talking about normal, everyday wrongness. I'm talking about the kind of wrongness that comes with its own theme music and marching band."

I love it! – Are you sure you're not Terry Pratchett in disgiuse?

Seriously though, it's a well thought-out and engaging article, and it has brought some interesting comments from the readers already, such as:

"Censorship of the home PC should be up to the household" from a reader 'JC'
with which I wholly agree.

NonSequitur writes...

And the reason it's so long is because I suggested in my letter that they spend the money on something that will make a difference – such as education or the health system. From page 2 onwards is pretty much just automated response to how great their education policy is. I guess that explains the 2nd booklet.

LOL..... brilliant. It looks like they have applied their filterning tech to correspondence. If voter mentions education, then send this booklet.

zoltae writes...

Mark, you have a way with words.

"I'm not talking about normal, everyday wrongness. I'm talking about the kind of wrongness that comes with its own theme music and marching band."

Heh. I needed a metaphor to demonstrate the repetitive nature of the factually hilarious statements coming out from the policy's supporters.

I've used it before on WP, but I think the ABC is more widely read :-)

Glad you liked it :-)

– mark

NonSequitur writes...

almost all of it is canned response

Do you think they have key-words to search for which automatically sends particular paragraphs and pamphlets?

Is this the net-nazi already in place at Mr Rudd's office, just using different key-words to test it out?

I am wondering if this is all about testing the waters for the alp feds, nsw alp tend to do this quite often, they release some info about a new policy they intend to bring in a few months before they table it in parliament, if its favorable then they bring it in, if they get the feeling from the public its not going to be favorable then they drop it or ammend it and later say stuff like "it was unfeasable to do such and such so we modified it"
what does scare me a bit though is if this does get through we are on a very slippery slope, it starts with porn and illegal content, then its unsavoury stuff, then its things that the govt dont think we should see and before you know it any opposition party will have their web site blocked because somehow the filtering has deemed it illegal, and then we have a single party state dont we, I really hope I'm not being paranoid here but its something worth thinking about
Also there doesnt seem to be much media attention to this, and what about the civil liberties mob and all those protestors for free speech you see down george st syd whenever theres a protest on, surely you would think something like this would generate a bit more news than it has!

Greg writes...

surely you would think something like this would generate a bit more news than it has

In my own humble opinion...

I think that partly this issue has 'come out' at the wrong time from a newsworthy point of view – we've had a lit of stories competing these last few weeks:

Pres. Obama (oops, looks almost like Osama, would have been blocked);
The Bali Bombers (ooops, used the word 'bomb')...;
The Melbourne cup (oops, that's to do with gambling, they won't like that!);
The World Recession (nope, can't think of why that might get blocked, except that people in money trouble might feel a bit suicidal... ah – there you go, that's why that one get's blocked...);

and....I think the 'media' have largely been asked to leave off criticising the issue.

[edits for silly spellings...!]

Excel Cat writes...

I think the 'media' have largely been asked to leave off criticising the issue.

not all media !!!!!!!!!!!

NonSequitur writes...

But I think there's a lot of new stuff in there too.

Check the date of printing if it is at the start of Labour in government it will probably be the standard party line, if it is later like december 2007 or sometime in 2008 it may have been changed information.

What are the names of the booklets ? we all could probably ask for one .

Kjaere writes...

not all media

Sorry – I kind of meant 'most' .. i.e. the big names like 7, 9, 10 etc – mainstream TV who seems to be supporting the censor

Excel Cat writes...

i.e. the big names like 7,

correct me if i am wrong didnt channel 7 do a spot on sunrise and most of the discussion was against it and a poll was done which said the same thing ?

unless i missed another spot where the slant was opposite to that..

dont know about 9 or 10 however

darryn hinch on 3AW Melbourne the biggie in talkback also was critical of the proposal and a poll there showed listener sentiment was also opposed

do you have links of the major networks saying they support the net filter, would love to have them for my own no filter page as well i am sure the wiki's would be interested also

Great article on the Age. I totally agree with everyone, and Mark's re-Marks...awesome!....

I can image all the newspapers being inundated with letters last week. Even myself I used the fax machine as ever before. It feels great when you do something and you see the positive response from people on the Media (despite of being so much censored themselves). This is a good point to show to many pessimists that also participate in this Forum, that a 'minority' can make a big positive difference. A little stone in the shoe is nothing, but can hurt hips!

...Different people can make the world different....isn't it? That includes you, Mark.
Being an engineer, still you avoid technicalities, share with other that are not tech, sacrifice a great deal of your time and still you hit the nail on the head constantly.
Like I said before, you have guts and passion. Congratulations, buddy!

After all, whatever the end result, at least we tried!!!!!!!
If we 'win', double compensation to celebrate.

Hey guys! have you seen this video from the Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales on internet censorship?
You'll enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suY1pMJN08&feature=related

Mark Newton writes...

Glad you liked it :-)

Yes the article was Very Good.

Excellent work Mark.

I think it'd help the ABC to make decisions about whether to keep watching this issue if the article gathered lots of comments.

So spend the next 15 minutes over there instead of on WP :-)

– mark

Kjaere writes...

didnt channel 7 do a spot on sunrise and most of the discussion was against it and a poll was done which said the same thing

Yes, but because the poll didn't go the way they wanted it to, they haven't mentioned it since...