Whirlpool

For discussion of VBB (Home and Mobile) Network and/or Service Issues.

Continues from: /forum-replies.cfm?t=921680&p=-1#bottom

Please use: Virgin BB Speed Test Thread (Part 2) to post speed test results.

Gladly writes...

Oh, poor little Gladly.
Come back Robert, all is forgiven.

Gladly, I moved this comment to here to respond to remain "on-topic". Sorry to hear that you are having these problems and clearly they are not going away. Have you had any contact with Virgin about this?

Dancing Bear writes...

Gladly, I moved this comment to here to respond to remain "on-topic". Sorry to hear that you are having these problems and clearly they are not going away. Have you had any contact with Virgin about this?

Thanks for that, Dancing Bear. It was very sad last night, I posted speed again, but today it is back to normal. Looks like it is going to be at night which would equal congestion, would it not? I am so glad that I did not become smug and platitudinous over my good run with Virgin – I always kept in mind that it might not last and that I would want to ask for advice? LOL

Gladly writes...

Looks like it is going to be at night which would equal congestion, would it not?

Yeah I reckon it does. Wonder why it came on so suddenly. You might well have some new sign-ons in your area doing heaps of P2P. Also the pre-paid BB thing is picking up so its going to rapidly overload some more parts of the Optus network.

I just don't get why Optus, let alone Virgin, are letting this continue. It has to be affecting the market's perception of them. The bad press they are getting (and no I don't mean whirlpool) is seriously costly to their reputation.

Gladly writes...

Looks like it is going to be at night which would equal congestion, would it not?

I would still be surprised to see congestion lead to such a sudden and dramatic loss of speed. let us know how it goes over the next few days.

Guys for the last 7 days VBB is awful. In most times am connected but after a while (ranges from 1min-15min) there is no download throughput. the only soloution seems to d/c and reconnect. and when am connected many packets are lost. I cant even chat on msn in most nights due to that. I emailed Virgin asking about the towers in 2160, and I got no reply. ooh and it sooo damn slow when it works. before that I used to get 700Kbps

Update: Surprise. Virgin has called me today and offered me free credit while they investigate the issue. Also they have offered me to leave the contract either now or after a month's time if they fail to reselove the issue with no exit fees.
I am surprsied that they have called me, and happy for that.

Test Results from Oz Broadband Speed Test
----------------------------------
Test run on 15/10/2008 @ 06:51 PM

Mirror: OptusNet
Data: 70 KB
Test Time: 5.79 secs

Your line speed is 99 kbps (0.1 Mbps).
Your download speed is 12 KB/s (0.01 MB/s).

4504 Narangba Qld

Rellie's Wireless ISP was taken over and service ceased.

Went to Dick Smith and was refused supply of a VBB Modem
because of the lack of service in their suburb.
… went to 3 with a USB lozenge modem and all is well.

At least Virgin is now aware of service areas and will not sell a
modem, apparently, where there are service issues.

Bashar writes...

Update: Surprise. Virgin has called me today and offered me free credit while they investigate the issue. Also they have offered me to leave the contract either now or after a month's time if they fail to reselove the issue with no exit fees.
I am surprsied that they have called me, and happy for that.

It is good to see and hear about some good customer service

Virgin has called me today and offered me free credit while they investigate the issue.

Now that is the way to do it.

Also they have offered me to leave the contract either now or after a month's time if they fail to reselove the issue with no exit fees.

That makes sense … Either fix it or Part company …

If Virgin can continue to resolve issues in this fashion,
then at least they are conceding that the service is
in the testing phase, in some areas

This may even reduce the queues at the Call Centre
which is, IMHO, the real benchmark of the service performance

Current status at Warradale, SA 5046

Internet: Download speeds fantastic, Browsing good

VBB@H phone: down

Virgin mobile: no voice calls, texts OK

Weirdest thing was that I tried calling VBB@H from my mobile, listened to dead air for a while, hung up. Minutes later VBB@H rings with a call from my mobile (which was no longer trying to call). I suppose I will have to pay for that too....

Speed appears no longer an issue.

Stability of service and load balancing is the next hurdle.

Dave Lister writes...

Speed appears no longer an issue.

Stability of service and load balancing is the next hurdle.

Definitely true for me also.

This morning have noticed pages loading very fast – even Virgin's messy, ADHD webpage – but occasional stalls/III's really spoil the experience. Noticed Thurs night that whilst line speeds were excellent, I frequently had timed-outs while trying to load pages.

I'm getting the best broadband speeds since signing up 18 months or so ago. Previously I only seemed to get a UMTS signal, but now, the modem is almost always showing a HSDPA connection.

Not sure if this means that a nearby tower has been upgraded. Even though the modem only shows a 1 bar signal, it doesn't seem to matter.

All of the above has been the case for a couple of weeks now. Glad I hadn'tgot around to purchasing an external antenna!

Hackett ACT 2602

hi all,
just a question, the date and time on the consol dissapears every few days , i dont have any speed problems or anything like that (touch wood) and this date and time thing doesnt affect the connection, it just doesnt show on the consol. I log into the management consol and change the date to todays date, however it still seems to change after a week...any ideas on why this happens?
cheers
AM

Windsor 4030

Stalls – and more stalls … Sometimes service works great but this
is 0138 am and the load would be like minimal

Why is not everything working ?!

Any improvement in the call centre wait times ?

I've been a long term VMA phone customer (signed up with them about a year after they opened) and I've never had any issues with their call center times at all...their phillippines mobile phone staff are always very polite and do anything they can to help (I haven't ever called with a complaint, just general inquiries about things – coincidentally for those that have a tendency to be racist...you people do realise they aren't actually pretending to be americans, it's just how their accent sounds forming english words? they can't help how they sound anymore than you can) and when I wanted information about their mobile broadband they transferred me through to the australian-based call center where I got quite possibly the best customer service experience I've ever had...

this girl, I think her name was Kelly or Callie or something similar not only answered all my questions, but she made sure to ask what I wanted the service for – what kind of browsing I do, how heavy a user I am, what I expect from a service, so that she could suggest the best one of the products to me to suit me and before she suggested a product to me she used some tool thing they have to check what kind of coverage I would be getting. she didn't just shove the info at me and expect me to understand it or be satisfied with it, she actually took the time to explain things in simple english and to advise me on which products would suit me best.

unfortunately I don't have good enough data coverage in my area for the service right now but she didn't try and mislead me about that either – she was very apologetic, advised me to try and call back in a couple of months if I'm still interested in MBB and to see if the situation changes and it's available for me.

A+ customer service, virgin. hasn't steered me wrong yet.

Dave Lister writes...

Any improvement in the call centre wait times ?

longest wait is usually ~ 20 minutes

sometimes no queue, average probably 5 mins

/forum-replies.cfm?t=789121

some more tales of woe …

Hi goresecs, welcome to Whirlpool.

Now piss off.

+1

I trialled virgin mobile bb around 5 months ago. I found that there were a lot of drop outs and unable to connect during peak periods (from postcode 4011). As a result i didn't go ahead with the plan. I'm looking at getting wireless bb again and was wondering if virgin has improved their network and resolved some of these problems?

Bris CBD 4000

Mobile Congestion – Unable to place call 1700

Windsor 4030

Internet – Occasionally flakey 2000 Wed Night
and early AM Thurs.

Free to V Mobiles may be causing the congestion
See my visit to Optus Network Thread

Dave Lister writes...

Internet – Occasionally flakey 2000 Wed Night
and early AM Thurs.

Totally RS from about 2300 Hrs until 0230 Hrs in Gungahlin, ACT 2913. Couldn't connect UMTS or GPRS, clock on modem just a dash or two.

3G was available on my V mobile phone, though.

OK again now – 3000 kbps.

I called VBB Support last night. They told me that there are a lot of problems connecting calls at the moment due to a changeover in systems that is currently taking place. At peak times the billing software is apparently having trouble coping. Once the changeover is completed, support said it should all be back to normal.

A better idea

Publish a service outage notice in plain text without all the graphics which clag the downloads.

My service knocked out at 2105 last night. Rang VBB at 2230 and one of the many boring messages was saying that "VBB users across the eastern states were having trouble connecting to the internet. Try turning off your modem every hour and try again."
At least wasn't just me.

I've had a big problem the past week or so ... whenever I make outbound calls, there's a really bad echo on the line when I speak, but not when the person I dialled speaks.

I've had this occasionally in the past, but usually I'm the only one who can hear the echo. Recently, the person on the other end has had the echo too, so much so that they often can't understand what I'm saying.

Has anyone else's telephony turned sour recently?

These statistics are from Singtel/Optus latest results from quarter end Sep 2008.

As of end of Sep 2008 Optus has 286,000 wireless broadband subscribers. 104,000 was added in the last quarter. On my calculation, 286k minus 104k gives Optus 182k subscribers at the end of June quarter 2008. So in the last quarter, Optus WBB subscribers increased by 57 %.

Is this good news for VBB subscribers ?

One would hope that in the current quarter, Optus does not sign up another 100,000 subscribers as this would really test Optus' congested network.

OzFree writes...

I've had a big problem the past week or so ... whenever I make outbound calls, there's a really bad echo on the line when I speak, but not when the person I dialled speaks.

Yep. same.

I have had to hang up and redial on some calls lately because the echo was really bad,
or the person at the other end complained that my voice sounded weird although I couldnt hear any echo.

pinkfan writes...

Yep. same.

Me also, and I'm having the same experience as Ozfree.

Echo when I speak, but not when the other person speaks. This echo problem is abso-bloody-lutely-appalling when I speak with another VBB@H user on our respective home phones – and this person only lives 4-5 km from me, AND mobile calls on my V mobile to this same person are no problem at all.

FWIW when I first subscribed to VBB@H I purchased a pair of Uniden cordless phones from Aust Post which were sold as being specifically suited to a wireless service.

Echos are a regular feature but I normally hang up
and redial or do a lot of listening …

Dave Lister writes...

Echos are a regular feature but I normally hang up

and redial or do a lot of listening …

They used to be a problem on ours, and then even worse were the "garbled" calls (they sound like you are talking to an old analogue modem).

Both have disappeared recently though.

It would be interesting to see what sort of data speeds you are seeing at the same time. My theory is that congested towers, or even ones that have worse than normal III or internet timeout issues, may also be performing poorly on calls.

rosen3 writes...

FWIW when I first subscribed to VBB@H I purchased a pair of Uniden cordless phones from Aust Post which were sold as being specifically suited to a wireless service

Rosen I dont think it's your phone,
I am having the same problems
as you and Ozfree and my phone is an old
banged up corded wreck-been in the back of a cupboard for 5 years,
The echo thing has only recently begun to be a constant pest,

NBN or Death  writes...

t would be interesting to see what sort of data speeds you are seeing at the same time. My theory is that congested towers, or even ones that have worse than normal III or internet timeout issues, may also be performing poorly on calls.

I experience echo of my own voice even in the mornings when speeds are at their highest, but voice echo is definitely worse in the evenings during times of (what I'm sure is) congestion, resulting in lots of timed-outs and worse than usual III's.

You may be right, NBN

Exactly! It used to happen on the odd call occasionally, but now it's almost every call I make, and has only really been noticeable in the past couple of weeks or less ... have emailed support, will be interesting to see if I get a reply beyond "have you upgraded to the most recent firmware?".

Incidentally, I *haven't* upgraded to the most recent firmware, and I never had the speed increases that others have had ... is anyone who has the echo getting it with recent firmware and/or with those ridiculous speeds that people have been reporting?

OzFree writes...

is anyone who has the echo getting it with recent firmware and/or with those ridiculous speeds that people have been reporting?

I have the most recent firmware, and am averaging line speeds around 1.5Mbps, and yes, the Echo still happens, and has been worse in past week or so.

When the echo happens, just tell the person on the other end that you will call back. This is what i do. It's not as if it's going to add to your bill, is it????

See also /forum-replies.cfm?t=1031599&p=20#r389

Leeching is still a problem causing network congestion and tower inaccessability.

Any ideas ? The full speed is good as this gets them onto shaping faster rather than having a ratty service for a few days, IMHO.

Start Rave …

If the high speed means that the leechers are shaped and identified early then this is good thing. If they are shaped quickly and can no longer jam up the tower then I can wear a bad night or two. If they are shaped on the second step early and terminated then this is even better.

End 2c worth …

my take...

Uncapped speed is nice but the real issues for most are :-

- peak hour congestion
- III's and stability in general

Personally I would prefer a 512 service that was more stable and useable and consistent including peak periods.

The removal of speed restrictions smacks of we have no clue how to get the network stable and able to handle the hordes of customers we are piling onto it so let's try this speed thing and hope it frees the channels up faster.

My advice to Virgin :-

- stop aggressive advertising and customer sign ups until you sort the network out.

- with regard to III's – they are likely not related to capacity. Headhunt some network tech god(s) to diagnose and fix the underlying issue.

- with regard to capacity – run diagnotics to identify towers with capacity issues and upgrade them.

I know this may not be a view that aligns itself with others but

At 7 or 8 megs a minute a heavy downloader will be shaped within a
few hours on a 2 gig plan, once they are shaped then they are
heading into the 2rd step, where the T&C's will be applied by
Virgin …

Virgin is actively removing leechers as fast they are able, and
any strategy that deals with these people and improves
network stability has my support

The issue is the encripted P2P which evades their software
tools designed to slow down P2P.

There are no simple solutions to this and not all the answers
will suit all people, the upgrade to the latest firmware has done
wonders to my connection.

The increase in speed occured at the same time more or less
when I did the upgrade. The logic, the faster downloads will free
up the connection, appears sensible to me.

Virgin has been open about the cause of the slowdown last night,
their CSOs identified the towers concerned, nominated another
which was sadly blocked by an interior wall in my unit and
generally dealt with the issue in a professional manner.

Dave Lister writes...

There are no simple solutions to this and not all the answers will suit all people, the upgrade to the latest firmware has done wonders to my connection.

The increase in speed occured at the same time more or less when I did the upgrade.

Sorry Dave, but I had to have a chuckle: /forum-replies.cfm?t=919247&p=24#r479

Dave Lister writes...

If the high speed means that the leechers are shaped and identified early then this is good thing. If they are shaped quickly and can no longer jam up the tower then I can wear a bad night or two.

Doesn't that risk that they in fact end up shaped and holding an HSDPA channel for longer at the shaped rate? Isn't one of the things the unshaping to 600K has shown is the degree to which that was itself part of the problem?

If they are shaped on the second step early and terminated then this is even better.

This is probably the only solution to leeching. It needs to be made so uncomfortable that people don't do it, or can't do it anymore.

NBN or Death  writes...

Sorry Dave, but I had to have a chuckle: /forum-replies.cfm?t=919247&p=24#r479

"I'm sorry Dave, but I can't do that..." chuckle

A good catch NBN and one I'm sure Dave will give you. We all get to eat our words sometimes. And the best laugh I've had all weekend.

All posted in good spirits and no attack to anyone intended.

NBN or Death  writes...

Sorry Dave, but I had to have a chuckle

In the context of …

Speed increase and the upgrade happened close together so I am unable
to determine from my perspective has the speed increase
had any impact on the stability of the service in
my area …

They are independant events however …

If they are synegistic or not that will be a post for
someone else to discuss …

However the upgrade is a good idea if there are issues
but I am still conservative on changing a system which
is working fine …

If that is OK by all of you …

Dave Lister writes...

Virgin is actively removing leechers as fast they are able, and

any strategy that deals with these people and improves

network stability has my support

i haven't been reading every thread like I used to...can you please point me to where this is occurring.

I'm aware of the batch of letters that was sent out in April ( /forum-replies-archive.cfm/954837.html ) but are you saying they have done other things since then?

cycl0ne184 writes...

i haven't been reading every thread like I used to...can you please point me to where this is occurring.

Not everything that Virgin does is reported on Whirlpool.

cyberknutt writes...

Not everything that Virgin does is reported on Whirlpool.

do you have anecdotal evidence?

Dave Lister = David Vincent Smith?

Spoke with Virgin CSOs last night

Lutwytche and Albion were congested
No other tower was available
Suspected that this was bittorrents
Bittorrents are easy to detect and shape unless
Encripted Bittorrents are unable to be found apparently
Virgin is endevouring to remove whoever that is
causing the congestion

David Vincent Smith was too boring and common …
Try Smith Dave Smith et al …
Dave Lister was taken but unused and I am huge
Red Dwarf Fan and have Red Dwarf Fan Club Person
Number One on my mobile as well … the guy who was
consulted about later episode of RD ! So I asked and
got Dave Lister and a Beer Milkshake …

Any other questions … Otherwise I have a ship to paint
and a Cow Vindaloo to ready for evening meal !

Back OT … The Virgin CSOs were adamant that they were
still having issues with Bittorents and were doing everything
to rid themselves of these pesky pests …

Dave Lister writes...

However the upgrade is a good idea if there are issues
but I am still conservative on changing a system which
is working fine …

I'm with you there. General attitude of "if it aint broke don't fix it" has saved me from much pain over the years. Wait for others to try out the new stuff first and see what it breaks.

If that is OK by all of you …

Hmmm, can we think about that and get back to you? <grin>

just one thing, how badly do bit torrents effect the network? if there is a usage limit of 2 to 4GB max per month, surely these bit torrents would chew through the usage limit allocated to each user.

 Chris  writes...

if there is a usage limit of 2 to 4GB max per month, surely these bit torrents would chew through the usage limit allocated to each user.

I suspect its not just the occassional use of torrents (and by this I mean a few small videos or some YouTube), but the constant use of them over time (ie grabbing a DVD rip or three). Without HSUPA on the network, uploading takes a full channel regardless of the speed the user is actually getting. Thus a continuous torrent running over a number of days will hold onto a download channel (which is bad, but HSDPA lessens the impact of one user somewhat) and also an upload channel (which is very bad). Remember that interactive browsing uses very little uplink, and only sporadically, so the difference in usage couldn't be more dramatic. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSUPA for reference.

Then there is the very behaviour of most torrent users – they put it on and leave it on. In fact, many users of torrents are blissfully unaware of the upload element at all, and most torrent programs are designed by default to continue to upload well beyond the completion of the download – that's kind of the whole point of P2P! I still remember when Napster first became popular but we still had excess usage plans on ADSL, and one Telstra customer racked up over $10k in one month because she didn't realise she was uploading continuously.

The very existence of P2P, and the impact it has on the upload traffic across the ISPs is the reason the big ones are re-introducing metered uploads, including Virgin by the looks of it.

NBN or Death  writes...

its not just the occassional use of torrents (and by this I mean a few small videos or some YouTube), but the constant use of them over time

The prev Virgin Rep gave a detailed explaination of this. There was also some considerable comment, by users on the amount that can be downloaded and the impact on the system.

Then there is the very behaviour of most torrent users – they put it on and leave it on.

Which is what brings down the system …

Some reading of prev threads may be of use to the enquiring mind …

I'm happy for Virgin to crack down on heavy users, whether they be torrent leeches or otherwise, (like they did in April when they identified that 2% of users were undertaking 30% of traffic).

However I also want Virgin to act responsibly with respect to the addition of new customers to an obviously congested network. They continue to advertise and sign up swags of new customers when the network is clearly shagged and unable to cope in peak times.

I don't give a bugger that I can get 1.2mb/s at 8am. Whoop-de-doo.

What I do care about is that most week nights I can only get about 50kb/s and one in every 10 or 15 pages doesn't load because of III's.

That just plain isn't good enough.

cycl0ne184 writes...

They continue to advertise and sign up swags of new customers when the network is clearly shagged and unable to cope in peak times.

They know where the congested towers are …

They know which towers that are approaching capacity …

They know what needs to be done … This is not rocket science

One of those full page ads with a list of suburbs that is full
or at 80% capacity.

Full suburbs – no. 80% take a number and if someone leaves,
then move in turn onto the system.

Market share means nothing if the clients are as mad as hell
and want to leave.

cycl0ne184 writes...

like they did in April when they identified that 2% of users were undertaking 30% of traffic

Does anyone have links on the posts re P2P and bittorents ?

30% is not also the real picture, these 30% are, in the main,
shaped and taking a slot on the local tower

These are people who clearly do not give a stuff about anyone
else. They are the people who need the Exetel Treatment !

Tonight is the slowest it has ever been.
Took me an hour to get on toWhirlpool and can't do a speed test. Will have to go and do something else.

Tonight is the slowest it has ever been.
Took me an hour to get on toWhirlpool and can't do a speed test. Will have to go and do something else.

I'd give up 2 of my 4Gig just to get a steady service. Tonight is painful for me as well....
I guess i'll have to turn the computer off and talk to the missus.....

Salisbury Park SA 5109

Whatever is wrong, it appears widespread. Tonight is the worst I've seen in a long time. Sub-Dial-Up speeds (all HSDPA) and IIIs everywhere.

Actually last night was worse for me in Sydney 2116. Phone dropouts on a long call for a while, an attempt to redial gave a fast beeping (network unavailable???) tone even though I had a dial tone. The net usually dropped at the same time, however often the net would die but the phone kept in there.

I wonder, my Optus 3G work phone always drops connection when handing over between GSM and 3G. Does the modem do the same? Though I am set to UMTS only so that shouldn't be happening.

Last few nights have not been good …

I suppose a 6 hour rule … like if a connection is maintained for
an average of 6 hours a day for any 7 days … in a month ?
Virgin will terminate ?

Will that stop the leechers stuffing up the network ?

This is rather bad as I frequently leave my internet radio on using my VBB at home for hours. I don't think that would use too much bandwidth or cause too much load to the towers. Also, there are some occasions that I would go online for games that may last for more than 6 hrs. Again, low bandwidth usage but long duration......

Personally, I doubt if your idea would work.

Systema writes...

I frequently leave my internet radio on using my VBB at home for hours.

low bandwidth usage but long duration......

That is apparently what is causing the tower congestion issues … Staying on the towers continiously … using an internet radio is legitimate use so this is one of those questions that the user must consider with their own conscience I suppose … I do not know the answers to that one …

As posted in the speed test thread the speed came back at the early hours, so whether this was P2P or similar activity or just a heavy load ?

Dave Lister writes...

As posted in the speed test thread the speed came back at the early hours, so whether this was P2P or similar activity or just a heavy load ?

To me, it sounds like heavy load. Especially considering the fact that most people who use P2P wouldn't just use the P2P network in the evening. If the congestion is caused by P2P, we should be seeing similar performance figures between peak hours and early morning.

That is apparently what is causing the tower congestion issues … Staying on the towers continiously …

I guess the problem with the current mobile broadband market is that, the limiting factor is call time, not data rate – similar to mobile network. They shouldh have marketed the plans based on hours that one can access the internet from the beginning and that would leave them much easier management as the telcos should be familiar with a time-share system based on their experience of running mobile phone networks. But I guess they just wanted to compete with other wired ISP too hastily and decided to go with the flow, using data quotas instead of online hours as the measurment units.

But for now, guess they have already have their feet too deep in the puddle. The only option they've got is really to build more towers and increase the capacity of the backhaul to provide better performance. It's beneficial to them in the long run anyways. After all, the mobile phone network is moving towards a more data-centric system from the voice-based network that we used to, improving the data transfer capabilities surely won't hurt them in the long run. Question is, whether the want to commit the kind of money that would involve in such process.

Systema writes...

To me, it sounds like heavy load.

I tend to agree with that

Especially considering the fact that most people who use P2P wouldn't just use the P2P network in the evening. If the congestion is caused by P2P, we should be seeing similar performance figures between peak hours and early morning.

That makes sense and is consistant with the little I know about the impact of P2P on WBB

they have already have their feet too deep in the puddle. The only option they've got is really to build more towers and increase the capacity of the backhaul to provide better performance.

Virgin have apparently the head in sand on that one. The number of users are increasing every day and this while is not bumping users off 3G, is certainly showing very low speeds. For what it is worth, it still works. Albiet at a snails.

Whether this is a further multiplexing type arrangement, there was a 16 to 48 split up last year sometime, has the channel been divided further into 144 or more ?

the problem with the current mobile broadband market is that, the limiting factor is call time, not data rate – similar to mobile network.

For a shared resource which depends on an empty space for others to operate, Virgin has a system which will work under medium to light load and will stumble when there is plenty happening …

Edit

Your line speed is 1.33 Mbps (1327 kbps).
Your download speed is 166 KB/s (0.16 MB/s).

That is the standard 3meg test at 7:10am

Last night was the worst I've had for a while. Almost impossible to bring up a webpage. When I did briefly get connections, it was pretty fast so maybe the work that Virgin Support said was going on in my tower at the end of last week has had some effect. Nothing special about this morning's download speed though. Around the 350Mbps mark.

I'll try again tonight and may call Virgin if it's still unusable.

On whether it is P2P or Load … if the OzBB Speedtest takes forever to
generate results then that is an issue with uploads? and therefore is
P2P rather than straight downloads ?

Hmmm, from what I saw was unlikely thou, as most of the time when speedtest.net gave me rubbish download bandwidth, my upload bandwidth stayed more or less normal.

Tonight the net is usable, but the last 2 nights I didn't even bother when it took about 5 mins just to get my homepage up. (And being google as the homepage), and other pages were worse.
Strange thing was last night, I had the best signal ever of -69dbm to -73dbm on UMTS/HSDPA, yet bugger all data flow.
SA 5159

Wow! Tonight is even worse than last night. Now even the emails are going crazy. I'm receiving 10+ of each email. Which is taking forever cos it keeps dropping out.....
GRRRRR!
Get ready for a phone call tomorrow night Virgin.

A V8 with no petrol is only a hunk of metal and plastic.
The signal can be great but many people on the system will not allow data feed.

My experiences are typical of all previous posts.
ie- No continuous connection during peak periods.
– No phone connection at times. (inbound or outbound)
– Download speeds fluctuating depending on time of day.
But here is the killer!
When i re-checked Virgins' homepage for coverage in my area........
Got the message...
"D'oh Looks like we don't have network coverage in your area just yet, but the good news is we are improving our network all the time."
(ahhhhhhhhhhbshit sorry had to sneeze!)
(maybe Homer is running VBB! lol)
So I guess i am technically in a contract with a service provider, who cannot provide any sort of regular service?

gooka writes...

So I guess i am technically in a contract with a service provider, who cannot provide any sort of regular service?

If you have experienced a deterioration in your service and Virgin, by changing their message in their coverage checker, have admitted that there are congestion issues in your area (if that is why the message changed) I think you have a good chance of negotiating an exit if troubleshooting steps are unsuccessful in resolving your issues.

SpiderHibs writes...

When I did briefly get connections ...

The disconnect/connect will briefly allow that, but I found that lateley the modem ( with setting at UMTS preferred ) will get stuck at HSDPA and therefore not really have a connection ergo no service.

I had to switch to "UMTS only" to be able to post this.

For whatever reasons, the selection of frequency downwards from HSDPA does not kick in and I suspect there are really no slots available to use HSDPA.

Pity but Virgin/Optus is subprime and will miss out on the big government deals. Big opportunity lost., but that is survival of the technically fittest.

gooka writes...

"D'oh Looks like we don't have network coverage in your area just yet, but the good news is we are improving our network all the time."

This is evidence that they do not sell into areas that can no longer support any extra customers. The only question is whether their trigger to pick up an overloaded area is soon enough to ensure they stop adding customers before it becomes too congested for the existing ones. Evidence on here is inconclusive at this stage.

NBN or Death  writes...

Evidence on here is inconclusive at this stage

LOL.

It's actually evidence that they have been swamped with complaints from disgruntled customers and they always shut the stable door well too late.

Look through some older threads (many of which have been unnecessarily duplicated, triplicated and worse by newcomers) and you will see that areas which were former broadband blackspots are the areas where VB customers are getting gypped the worst.

The worst aspect of VB's severely handicapped management is their continued, unconscionable marketing of a service which does not work and which they know does not work.

deeranger writes...

The worst aspect of VB's severely handicapped management is their continued, unconscionable marketing of a service which does not work and which they know does not work.

exactly.

deeranger writes...

It's actually evidence that they have been swamped with complaints from disgruntled customers and they always shut the stable door well too late.

Maybe. But considering they have been pioneering a service, and therefore many facets of it, it is not surprising that they are the first ones learning many things. And learning from complaints is hardly a crime – it is often the only real way to learn.

The worst aspect of VB's severely handicapped management is their continued, unconscionable marketing of a service which does not work and which they know does not work.

They just pulled it from retail outlets because they know they cannot guarantee service.

As for "does not work", what do these indicate then: /forum-replies.cfm?t=1031599&ux=187213. Are you trolling now?

NBN or Death  writes...

As for "does not work", what do these indicate then: /forum-replies.cfm?t=1031599&ux=187213. Are you trolling now?

That, dear boy, indicates speed increases being trialled in a desperate attempt to rectify chronic network faults.

They haven't fixed IIIs, VB@Home call dropouts or network busy errors. If you think these wide spread, chronic faults are indicative of a well provisioned, engineered and managed network, that's your prerogative. Myself, I prefer to get what I pay for. Call me demanding.

deeranger writes...

That, dear boy, indicates speed increases being trialled in a desperate attempt to rectify chronic network faults.

Seen in its most negative light. But that still does not qualify as "does not work" in anyone's book.

If you think these wide spread, chronic faults are indicative of a well provisioned, engineered and managed network, that's your prerogative.

A 4Gb plan running at 2-3Mbps plus unlimited phone calls to national and Virgin Mobile numbers – all for $60/$70. Competes with a 1.5Mb ADSL connection for the same price, plus phone calls and line rental for an extra $120 per month. For that saving I put up with some congestion and faults occasionally, and can see they continue to try to make it work.

If you want a well provisioned, engineered and managed network then you will need to pay for it – Telstra currently price their industry leading network at about 4-5 times the price for the same value. That in itself should tell you something.

I dont think you're demanding – I think you are unrealistic.

NBN or Death  writes...

A 4Gb plan running at 2-3Mbps plus unlimited phone calls to national and Virgin Mobile numbers

It doesn't "run" at any speed. It stops and starts, FFS. Sure, the calls are free, but you can only make them when the network allows, not when you want. Those calls which do connect can drop out and call quality is widely variable.

Telstra currently price their industry leading network at about 4-5 times the price for the same value

I must have missed something in what I thought was a careful reading of the VB promotional material and the T&Cs because NOWHERE did I see mention that the service I was buying was intermittent and unreliable. I did see mention of the vagaries of wireless, but thought that meant that I could expect to encounter the vagaries of wireless, not chronic network failures which have nothing to do with the last mile.

Had I signed up for a second class service, I'd still be dissatisfied as VB can only dream of being second class.

deeranger writes...

Had I signed up for a second class service, I'd still be dissatisfied as VB can only dream of being second class.

What class is VBB now ?

t1t2t3...t4? writes...

What class is VBB now ?

Who do I call to change class.....................

t1t2t3...t4? writes...

What class is VBB now ?

They are in childcare, looking forward to learning enough, eventually, to go to preschool before they spend the 12 hardest years of their life in primary school.

deeranger writes...

I did see mention of the vagaries of wireless, but thought that meant that I could expect to encounter the vagaries of wireless, not chronic network failures which have nothing to do with the last mile.

Having owned a mobile phone for over 15yrs, I have never seen anything other than a service where calls dropout and have variable quality, or mobile broadband that is laggy and drops out altogether occasionally. And that's in CBD locations in the major cities of this country and quite a few others.

Furthermore, I have witnessed "chronic network failures" with every single type and style of telco communications – everything from heavy rains making a cable connection fail for a week, to an idiot Telstra tech disconnecting our apartment MDF and 50 ADSL customers along with it (two weeks), to a moron running his tank over a bunch of mobile towers and another few who cut through a well-marked fibre channel. Couple that with an endemic failure overall to provide anywhere near the overall broadband infrastructure over so many years, especially by the very company that our tax and customer dollars have built from the ground up.

I signed up for the product fully expecting to see some ongoing issues that may take months or years to completely correct (just as I saw with cable and ADSL when they were launched). Especially when I considered the price.

The only thing I can see Virgin at fault for here is in failing to appreciate and plan for the demand in the market, and then the pressure it would put on the network. Conspiracy theorists would say that they knew and did not care, but I have had to many years in the corporate space to believe that degree of indifference/greed.

The most robust network in this country is being "protected" by Telstra with exorbitant pricing, which is also netting them enormous profits. Virgin (and Optus to some degree) have decided instead to take the consumer-focused path, and offer an innovative product that saves many of us a heck of a lot of money.

NBN or Death  writes...

The only thing I can see Virgin at fault for here is in failing to appreciate and plan for the demand in the market, and then the pressure it would put on the network.

What about the exit penalty fee that Virgin is reluctant to waive. Do you think this is ethical ?

t1t2t3...t4? writes...

What about the exit penalty fee that Virgin is reluctant to waive. Do you think this is ethical ?

Having a "reluctance" to waive any fee is not unethical at all. I would expect any company that has a contract in place to investigate any issues thoroughly before allowing a waiver.

Whilst there have been a few reported cases of people not actually getting a waiver in what seemed like appropriate circumstances, most have come to a satisfactory resolution. And although they will complain about the lengths they had to go to to prove that the contract was not being upheld, that is only natural and understandable for people who were already unhappy to begin with.

I am yet to see "amicable" contract waivers – the customer is clearly upset enough to want it, and the provider is clearly going to fight to hold on to the dollars it generates. Like a marriage gone sour, it will likely end with a lingering bad after taste.

NBN or Death  writes...

and offer an innovative product that saves many of us a heck of a lot of money.

Yes, I agree – providing that it works. For many people on Whirlpool it has proved to be unusable after the 30 day trial period.

I'm going to give Virgin a run for their money.

I'm still waiting for their final bill for the exit fee, but I'm going to make them work to get the money out of me.
I'm going to put the bugger on hold for an hour when they ring me and see how they like it.
Fortunately I've moved house so I'm going to let them track me down and when they finally get a hold of me for long enough I'll challenge them to court over $180 especially when they've broken the contract in the first place for not providing a service they were suppose to.

I'm looking forward to it.
Payback is sweet.

Toongy writes...

I'll challenge them to court over $180 especially when they've broken the contract in the first place for not providing a service they were suppose to.

I'm looking forward to it.

Payback is sweet.

Try ringing Slater & Gordon. They are well known in class action lawsuits.

Do you know what a "class action" is?

Toongy writes...

Fortunately I've moved house so I'm going to let them track me down and when they finally get a hold of me for long enough I'll challenge them to court over $180 especially when they've broken the contract in the first place for not providing a service they were suppose to.

Actually Toongy, all they're going to do is report you to the credit agencies as a bad debt and stuff up your credit rating. They will also most likely sell the debt to a gung-ho collection agency for 50% of the actual cost. So the collection agency has incentive to track you down and collect the full amount, plus any court costs involved.

I agree that justice should be on your side, but the cost of trying to extract that justice may be high and while I fully understand your angst with Virgin and the desire to show them how it feels, in this case it really will, most likely, work out as a case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face". It is, of course, your perogative to take them on, but at least do it with your eyes wide open to the likely eventual consequences to you. :)

Gladly writes...

Do you know what a "class action" is?

I will not try to explain what a "class action" is and pretend that I know the law as it stands. But if there is enough people who believe that they have paid for a service that was not rendered and billed exit fees for getting out then why not consider a class action. It will strengthen your chances on taking on big companies.
Also, some legal firms who handle class actions charge on a 'no win – no fee' basis.

t1t2t3...t4? writes...

then why not consider a class action. It will strengthen your chances on taking on big companies.

Also, some legal firms who handle class actions charge on a 'no win – no fee' basis

Can we rely on you to organise this?

Gladly writes...

Can we rely on you to organise this?

I'll try to assist but someone else can do the organising. Meanwhile, whirlpool members can do a protest rally in front of say Flinders Station (Melbourne) or in one of Virgin stores to demand Virgin to do the right thing. What do you think ?

t1t2t3...t4? writes...

...I'll try to assist but someone else can do the organising. Meanwhile, whirlpool members can do a protest rally in front of say Flinders Station (Melbourne) or in one of Virgin stores to demand Virgin to do the right thing. What do you think ?"]

Terrific. Can we count on you to organise this?

Rally … Posters … Sound Grab for Media … Organise Single Page Brief for TV Stations …
Colour Co-ordinate Protesters … Hand Outs …

I really would like to check out a storm on the BOM site … will not load !

Dave Lister writes...

REPLYING TO

Dave Lister...Rally … Posters … Sound Grab for Media … Organise Single Page Brief for TV Stations …

Colour Co-ordinate Protesters … Hand Outs …

Oh, yes,yes, Dave, and t1t2t3...t47 will organise it all!!

I had a number of outbound calls to make today, and every single one dropped out and I had to ring back.

This motivated me to try the firmware update, after holding on to my original modem and firmware for so long.

So I rang VBB. Got through within a minute after going through the menus, but the phone dropped out when it was answered! Rang back, again got through quickly, and the phone held the