Whirlpool

Well Telstra and Spineless Service Stream (SS) are on a money grabbing exercise. Over the last few days all staff of SS have received invoices from a couple hundred $'s to Thousands ($3000 is the highest I have heard of so far).

So what am I on about. Here is the story. Bob the friendly SS I & M bloke is given an install to do. He goes to Joan's place at the appointed time in January of this 2008th year. However Joan's decided to go shopping. So no one is home for Bob to do his work.

So Bob like a good bloke builds the line to the closest point to the house. Leaves a note for Joan in her letterbox stating, I came, I saw, I fixed what I could now you ring Telstra to make a new appointment.

Then Bob trots off to the next job.

Now fast forward 9 months. Bob gets an email like this..........

Logo here some where S S

Service Stream Communications Pty Ltd

www.servicestream.com.au

ABN: theirs

day date Month 2008

By email: They did so
And by facsimile: They did Not

Bob's Company Name

Bob's Address

Attention: Bob

Dear Bob

Well the edited version is....... That Bob is made aware of what the contract has to say in relation to the work that he dose and that if the work that he dose is found to be less than good, Bob will get fined for it.

It also said that Bob had 14 days in which to objuct to the fines.

Yours sincerely

Bob's Big Boss

General Manager – Of and Area

Service Stream Communications Pty Limited

A wholly owned subsidiary of Service Stream Limited

.......Wow sorry about that...... So Bob looks at the attached info at why he is charged almost $500.00. Bob finds all the work was done on the same day in Jan 2008. However the 2nd visit or repair to Bob's original work is due to the Customer not been home. So what dose Bob do?

He sits here and types all of this out.
He grabs a beer.
Then lifts his beer to a photo of Sol. The man that gives every one the cut in pay so he can get the bigger bonus. And smiles. Why cause he knows that tey are all going to hell.

Bob has a lot more to say...but well more beer required. Oops can not afford it this week got a fundraiser I mean fine to pay.

Love BOB :)

PS if like Bob ur copping it up the pass post your thoughts please.

sounds like bob doesn't know his job

well rumors are everyone is getting them at service stream. even the most experienced and meticulous about their job are getting them.
but apparantly service stream are knee deep in fines atm which explains why they're sending out these notices to reclaim back some money......

So is it just BOB that's a bad tech now?

Rasorback writes...

Wow sorry about that...... So Bob looks at the attached info at why he is charged almost $500.00. Bob finds all the work was done on the same day in Jan 2008. However the 2nd visit or repair to Bob's original work is due to the Customer not been home. So what dose Bob do?

BOB made the mistake of building the line without the customer giving the go ahead.He is supposed to card said customer and send the job back waiting for customer to book a new appointment.It almost sounds like BOB has completed the job rather than incompleting so as to get paid for the work he did.Still it seems a bit over the top to fine him.

How you, I&M guys, manage to fix all these phone fault when Telstra copper network complete disaster zone ? Every second pit has plastic rubbish bag instead of waterproof joint, a lot of pits' covers cracked and fell down inside pits damaging cables and joints, some pillars are full of rust etc etc ...

It looks to me it is more and more difficult to fix phone faults because of copper network condition ... and now with these fines it does not worth to be faults contractor since it takes more and more time to fix them ...

What are your thought on that ?

Rasorback writes...

Bob the friendly SS I & M bloke is given an install to do. He goes to Joan's place at the appointed time in January of this 2008th year.

bob should know that he just cards the install, and also is paid $25 for his time to put a appointment card in the letterbox...
why would bob expect to be paid for a full install when he has only done half the job(and why do half the job?)

bob should be happy he gets $25 as the telstra tech gets nothing..

Rasorback writes...

We are told that Telstra is squeezing Service Stream for millions in so-called “fines” and
Service Stream is attempting to pass these “fines” on to the subbies.

this has nothing to do with bobs install as bob made the mistake as he should have incompleted the install to start with..

ofcourse bob should challenge other fines he may have received, but booking of a install completed without full completion is fraud...

striker writes...

bob should be happy he gets $25 as the telstra tech gets nothing..

Do not worry about telstra techs ...
Telstra techs are getting paid for time spent on driving & waiting, petrol, mobile phone ...

The same is going on in Qld with BSA, with big money being suggested up to ($7000). As a contractor you get no chance to rectify any problems, but get hit with $150 fines for jobs that you get paid $43. Dont worry about Telstra employees (I was one for over 20 years) they get paid regardless and Ive never heard of tech on an AWA ever being fined.

windsor writes...

The same is going on in Qld with BSA, with big money being suggested up to ($7000). As a contractor you get no chance to rectify any problems, but get hit with $150 fines for jobs that you get paid $43. Dont worry about Telstra employees (I was one for over 20 years) they get paid regardless and Ive never heard of tech on an AWA ever being fined.

are you talking about Foxtel or telephony ?
BSA is well known for their fines on Foxtel techs

telephoney. I dont contract to BSA but have friends on both sides and it appears that the contractors will get done over ,then the Telstra workers such is the Telstra circle of life

windsor writes...

Ive never heard of tech on an AWA ever being fined.

Any re-report with in seven days we loose our money,if it's due to poor workmanship or if it just fails due to what ever.
CD
Edit Grammar

plastic bag joints, gel, wet weather how can you not get rework when there is little or no maintenance done on the network

windsor writes...

little or no maintenance done on the network

Windsor tell me about it :-(
CD.

Crazy Diamond writes...

Any re-report with in seven days we loose our money

30 days

Crazy Diamond writes...

Any re-report with in seven days we loose our money,if it's due to poor workmanship or if it just fails due to what ever.

And its starting to be enforced with a bit more vigor.

windsor writes...

plastic bag joints, gel, wet weather how can you not get rework when there is little or no maintenance done on the network

Patch patch patch and patch a bit more. I think a CNI clearance still doesn't count as a rereport but thats not the point.Despite your best efforts some jobs do come back.Intermittant ADSL faults are real fun.

Rangar writes...

30 days

Yes a nice little change that wasn't really advertised.

for blokes on AWA such as my self, alsong as final FAST and/or RVOP are good, you should not get your points taken away

hrdct writes...

alsong as final FAST and/or RVOP are good, you should not get your points taken away

why? most noisy lines will past fast..fast is only a guide

ServiceStream are being too lazy to go through all the KPI's and send back the ones that are not applicable. They expect the techs to do this now and are fining people for jobs that go back to February. If the tech does not have a good reason for the re-work within 7 days they receive a $140 fine. Techs are being sent fines for DTOW on faults when customers aren't even home. Do they expect techs to break and enter in order to get a working service?

memc writes...

Techs are being sent fines for DTOW on faults when customers aren't even home. Do

Shouldn't happen unless the next tech to go out clears it with a CAN clearance code.

drekkus writes...

Shouldn't happen unless the next tech to go out clears it with a CAN clearance code.

It shouldn't but this is even happening for faults proven inside the property.

This happens very often and customers gets screwed by it... Sorry but the Service Stream tech should finish the job. I know it a silly Telstra policy, but incomplete lead-ins should not be blamed on Telstra.

Send Bob back to finish what he started.

memc writes...

Techs are being sent fines for DTOW on faults when customers aren't even home.

You don't need to go to the home for all faults.

canon1d writes...

You don't need to go to the home for all faults.

No only if the fault is proven inside. If a tech has gone out and tested the line as far as possible without going inside the property then there should be no fine. How can a tech be responsible for a customer not being home? There really shouldn't be any fines in the first place. It's not techs can go back to Telstra with fines for all their mistakes.

Xtrapol8 writes...

Send Bob back to finish what he started.

All well and good doing that, but tell that to the dispatchers at SS. The tech incompltes the job and it goes back into the system for a new appointment, if "bob" gets it back good on him but more often than not he wont. its kinda telstras fault coz half the time, the customers dont even know the techs rocking up.

canon1d writes...

You don't need to go to the home for all faults

Service Stream's requirement is to test for dial tone at socket if customer is home.

h1000 writes...

Service Stream's requirement is to test for dial tone at socket if customer is home.

Socket? NBP/1st TO?

canon1d writes...

Socket? NBP/1st TO?

From what I hear, their call centre asks if you have dial tone to first TO, or in the case of a business, the MDF when you clear the fault.

Xtrapol8 writes...

This happens very often and customers gets screwed by it... Sorry but the Service Stream tech should finish the job. I know it a silly Telstra policy, but incomplete lead-ins should not be blamed on Telstra.

Send Bob back to finish what he started.

Agreed. If a tech starts the job that same tech should have to opportunity to finish it. It is NOT the Tech's fault the customer can not keep the appointment.

Bob is better than just an man with no arms and legs floating down the river. He works hard to do his job. Get the job right on a network that is not suitable to be working on. But he still dose.

So what did Bob do wrong. He stayed in the industry. He did not re-educate himself at the age of 40+ to do something new.

Bugger BOB :(

Mate of mine just got fined for "re-visit". Customer was not home originally and had to card it, then went back to fix problem in customer premises and got fines because of second visit. He barely remembered the job as it was in January. This industries going to hell.

h1000 writes...

He barely remembered the job as it was in January. This industries going to hell.

Going going gone! m8

yes you cant test for noisy lines but FAST is all mangement can go on, so if it passes the ct gets benefit of the doubt, same as a sultan session unavailable

Anyone hear how the protest went today?

Anyone hear how the breakfast went today?

h1000 writes...

Anyone hear how the protest went today?

Didn't end up really being a protest. More of a meeting in the park. Union officials are meeting with ServiceStream next week for discussions. Unions solicitors are claiming that what ServiceStream are doing is in breach of contract.

Re reports are unavoidable.Theres a reason why some faults are called intermittent.You can get a line back within specs only to have it fail again in a few days time because of the state of the cable.If they want to fine people for revisits then either set a threshold before the fines kick in or go out and check if there is justification for fining someone eg shoddy work.

memc writes...

Unions solicitors are claiming that what ServiceStream are doing is in breach of contract.

servicestream have a contract with telstra

servicestream are just starting to play catchup with their sub contractors

telstra are paying ss to do a job, re-reports within a time frame specified in the contract attract a non payment, why should telstra pay ss to do a job and then have to do a van roll 2 days later to fix the original problem

I guess Helstra will do anything conceivable to make a buck these days !!!

How long will it be before where stoning their vehicles, like in the US ?

Anyway thats my 2.9c worth. :D

Rangar writes...

why should telstra pay ss to do a job and then have to do a van roll 2 days later to fix the original problem

That is fair enough but this is not what Service Stream are doing. I have a mate that got two fines from January this year and how he got them was customer was not home, carded the job then went and fixed at a later date. I do not believe Telstra would have fined Service Stream for those jobs specifically from January so SS are fining the subbies on jobs that don't incur a fine from Telstra. That is illegal and is one of the main reasons everyone is up in arms.

There is a Public Phone tech that has incurred $6000 in fines, you can't tell me Telstra have just fined SS this much for this guys work. Where is the audit process. If his work was that shoddy, why was he not counselled about the problem ages ago? It is just SS trying free up their cash flow problem.

Rangar writes...

why should telstra pay ss to do a job and then have to do a van roll 2 days later to fix the original problem

It's not all as black and white as that. People are getting sent fines for jobs that are out of their control. It's different if people are doing shoddy or dodgy work but techs are being sent these fines illegitimately. There is no proof that the tech was at fault and then techs have to try and figure out what might have happened after the job was completed. If they can't come up with anything they receive a fine.

One example is if a job was completed and then something happens at the exchange through someone elses mistake, then the original tech would receive the fine even though they were not at fault. How can someone be fined for something that did not do? There needs to be proof. How are tech's supposed to guarantee the network with the state that it is in?

People never received fines through Visionstream as they had people going through each fine and sending illegitimate ones back. Also the contract for re-work between Telstra and ServiceStream is 5% for faults and 2% for installs. Yet the contract agreement with the techs and ServiceStream is 1% for installs and faults. It clearly shows that ServiceStream are just trying to make a profit as they would be fining techs on jobs when they aren't receiving fines themselves.

This is what is in breach of contract.

(a) contrary to it’s obligations under Clause 6.2 Service Stream has failed to provide the particulars for each and every defect, omission or unsatisfactory work in respect of each item of the Work alleged;

(b) contrary to it’s obligation under Clause 6.2 Service Stream has failed to provide an opportunity to rectify/perform the work concerned;

© contrary to it’s obligations with Clause 6.2 Service Stream has failed to properly quantify or document:

(i) the cost of rectification; or

(ii) the basis of the calculation of decreased value;

in each of the cases of Work Failing test; and

(d) contrary to Clause 6.2(b)(2) the Company is without authority withholding monies payable in respect of Work other than Work in respect of which defects are alleged

Hmmmm

Interesting post..... in my experience I have found the whole process from a consumer to be ridiculous.

I get advised I can choose a 4 hour window where I need to be home, at least 4 hours, where someone can turn up to fix the problem. So I take time off from a Corporate job, where I am a single parent. I get home, wait and no one turns up..... after the time agreed someone turns up.... hoorah!

Tell me this, with the technology of today, how hard would it be for when the TOW is sent to SS, to be provided with a mobile number. The Telstra customer advises what time notice they need to be informed to get back home, that time is a part of the job. The subbie has a mobile GPS device, when he finishes the previous job, he alerts the TOW through th device, going to new job. Customer informed as requested. Customer turns up, subbie turns up, quick, fast and efficient.

Now I am keeping the above simple, but I guarantee it is not hard to get setup.

Considering what costs are involved to any company be paid from Telstra for these services, a mobile GPS device + tracking software would not equate to more than $150/month/subbie. It would enable a far greater efficiency and handle the problems with customers having to wait forever.

I have seen major companies do this with fleet vehicles and work like a charm.

The real question here is this, why don't Service Stream do this????

MrTelco4U writes...

$150/month/subbie.

We dont need anymore overheads mate. That may not be a lot in your Corporate job, but to me it would just be another kick to and already sore groin.

So how did the sydney meeting in paramatta go? Do we get to blockade the CBD yet ??? =D

Edit:

Oh yeah i forgot to add. Why not explain that you need a pre-call. I get that info on my work orders everynow and again. And Ill even call if im in a good mood.

... the lot of you – resign and walk away ....enmasse ....30days notice – gone ..!!!...
... demand re-employment as telstra or nothing ...!!!!
... then get back to depot working methods – CT proves fault to the premises at nearest joint or line ready to pit outside for instals – or line ready and tagged at mdf .... then SOCL ( sub out / card left ) for when the customer cannot be found... ... AND whats wrong with the customer leaving a contact phone number on their front door especially when expecting a visitor like a "telephone man"...
... sell your shares in SS .....

rob111 writes...

demand re-employment as telstra or nothing

replace demand with "wish"

rob111 writes...

whats wrong with the customer leaving a contact phone number on their front door

Not getting paid by the hour.

Wow what a soulless blood sucking process.
Sorry guys :(

***
Regarding the fine process, it seems to me that the burden of proof is on telstra then ss.

Surely if everyone asks for formal details on these cases (rightly so) then you can slow the process down to a standstill?

Fist4jesus writes...

Regarding the fine process, it seems to me that the burden of proof is on telstra then ss

not at all

the subbies contract is with ss

ss have a contract with telstra

if there is a re-report telstra fine ss

memc writes...

Yet the contract agreement with the techs and ServiceStream is 1% for installs and faults.

Thats just rediculous especially if it includes any sort of re roll regardless of the previous clearance reason.

rob111 writes...

... the lot of you – resign and walk away ....enmasse ....30days notice – gone ..!!!...

Its a big call to expect everyone to do that, how many could afford to.Do Service Stream do enough work that Telstra couldn't get by without them for the time it took to replace them ?

Rangar writes...

if there is a re-report telstra fine ss

Yes that is correct, but the bulk of the fines I am hearing about are NOT passed on fines from Telstra. They are simply auditing their own sub-contractors (using their own evaluation of infringement) and fining the subbie without any grounds for doing so. The process should, and is, about Telstra auditing SS subbies work, then fining SS, and SS passing on that fine giving the subbie ample time to reject the claim. This is not happening and I have heard of cases previously where SS have just simply taken out the fine amount from the subbies next invoice payment without even telling them.

What SS are doing is illegal and should be stopped immediately or else there will be so many people leaving this industry, the whole fault process will be in danger of collapse. I am not exagerating, every subbie I know has had a gutfull. One said, "I'd rather sit on the beach drinking whiskey and go broke than do it for Service Stream"

... do the subbies get the customers contact ph number before they go to the job ...? if not – why not? – ...
... im asking because i thought you ring before going to the job ....

rob111 writes...

... do the subbies get the customers contact ph number before they go to the job ...? if not – why not? – ...

... im asking because i thought you ring before going to the job ....

Yes, on their manifest they generally get a mobile number or such and most (not all) techs would ring customer but sometimes customer is not home or doesn't answer mobile so they may not be able to gain access inside the house, which is no fault of the techs, but it would seeem SS seem to think it is grounds for a fine.

h1000 writes...

Yes that is correct, but the bulk of the fines I am hearing about are NOT passed on fines from Telstra.

What does it matter?

If the SS subbie has a contract which includes penalties, SS have every right to invoke those penalties in the first instance. They don't need "permission" from Telstra or referrals from Telstra

The process should, and is, about Telstra auditing SS subbies work, then fining SS, and SS passing on that fine giving the subbie ample time to reject the claim.

Nope.

The process is, subbie does their job, the one that they are being paid for, and the one that they've contracted to do, PROPERLY, first time, every time.

Else you risk a fine from SS. Why they chose to fine you THIS TIME and not last time is not your business, it is theirs.

michael j writes...

The process is, subbie does their job, the one that they are being paid for, and the one that they've contracted to do, PROPERLY, first time, every time.

I don't think anyone is complaining about them being fined for substandard/sloppy work but being fined when they have done it properly.I think the worry is that Service Stream is fining their contractors for a re roll without regard to why the re roll was needed.

This is not about quality. It is about being accountable for the specific reason of being fined and the way in which SS go about it.

a) They cannot fine a subbie in a way in which Telstra do not
b) They have to allow subbies time to reject fine
c) They cannot take the money from subbie without proper notice

I have no problem with fines being incurred for sloppy work, but as I said earlier, that is not what this is about. SS's ass is in a sling , and they are screwing their subbies over which is not going to improve quality, it is going cause enormous problems with the network and the whole fault process.

QUEENSLAND SUBBIES TELEPHONE HOOKUP
The Queensland Branch of the Subbies Association is calling a telephone hook up for all Queensland Subbies.
6.30PM TUESDAY 30th SEPTEMBER
Dial in: 1800 333 803
Pin No: 5018#
The hookup is to discuss the latest rounds of fines for Sub Contractors in the lines and payphones areas.

GEOFF TAYLOR
TSCA & Branch Organiser
CWU QLD
P. 07 3255 0440
M. 0417 782 527

DON’T GO TO WORK WITHOUT THE SUBBIES ASSOCIATION JOIN NOW!

It appears that some of the BSA fines have been with drawn today.....

hey razorback, how did the hookup go?

Rasorback writes...

It appears that some of the BSA fines have been with drawn today.....

do you have more info on that ?

-------------------------------------------------------

according to BSA annual report – http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20080929/pdf/31ckx29t1rgt0v.pdf

Mark Foley's (managing director) remuniration in 2007/2008 -

Cash, Salary & fees: $475'129
Cash bonus: $115'000
Super: $42'332
Long Service leave: $11'623
Terminations benefits: $24'164
Total in 2007/2008 : $668.238

not bad increase compare with $520'456 in 2006/2007 – that's nearly 30% increase whereas installers' rates increased only no more than 2% ...

that's where all the fines and ADSL payments had been going to ..

Sidor writes...

that's where all the fines and ADSL payments had been going to ..

adsl payments?

maybe if the subbies did the job properly there wouldn't be an issue

Rangar writes...

maybe if the subbies did the job properly there wouldn't be an issue

I do not think you understand what you are talking about

I recently left the industry, Visionstream ,as a contractor( I+m) due to not being payed for what work was done and the amout of palm offs telstra-visionstream would give when problems arised.Imagin if i got someone to work to rule,if a new drop across the road needs replacing, make sure traffic management is used,licenced ,pole work, power awerness ticket,roofs ,fall restraints how much would the bill be?If you do the job and something goes wrong your insurance wont pay,the company says you should have known and the courts take your house.Ring worksafe and throw bills back at the contracting companys.The more rules you brake the more they will screw you.

Sidor writes...

do not think you understand what you are talking about

why is that so sidor ?

please elaborate

Rangar writes...

please elaborate

Sidor is probably getting at the fact that people are being fined when they are not even at fault which has been mentioned several times throughout this thread. Please stop repeating yourself about people not doing their job properly as this is NOT the issue.

memc writes...

Please stop repeating yourself about people not doing their job properly as this is NOT the issue.

it looks like that this is his mission on this forum ...

As for ADSL, Foxtel stopped paying technicians for installation of ADSL inline filters 1.5-2 years ago. So now Foxtel wants ADSL filters to be installed with every phone line connection on Foxtel installation and technician has to provide one from his own pocket. That was my point where these company are getting their money from to pay $0.5mil of waged to their managaers.

Sidor writes...

As for ADSL, Foxtel stopped paying technicians for installation of ADSL inline filters 1.5-2 years ago.

Yeah as time goes on it just gets worse and worse. One the telecommunications side of things there used to be more free issue items. Now a lot of them have to come out the techs pockets. ServiceStream even try to charge techs for things that are still meant to be free issue. They want techs to pay for the stock and not even be able to recoup the costs.

h1000 writes...

hey razorback, how did the hookup go?

Well it all sounded nice on the phone. But it appears that BSA are the ones that are fighting for their rights. SS guys are sitting on their behinds waiting for others to do all the work?

SS guys are sitting on their behinds waiting for others to do all the work?

So you mean that they are expecting the union to sort it out? What steps do you think they should take? Have SS made a reply to the uproar?

with all the fines,reduction of free issue materials,forcing fee for sevice work to be done(at a cost below brake even)VPL melbourne want everyone to work by self service(close off jobs yourself)laptop, modem=more costs+time.As well, at a meeting last week we were told only work will be avaliable SAT,SUN and PUBLIC HOLIDAYS.Good if you want a part time job.It seems the years everyone took one change after another without standing up to them the well is dry.Its time to face it MOVE ON! sorry guys

It would appear that the vultures are circling, be really interested to know who it is though, and if it will become a hostile takeover bid.

http://business.theage.com.au/business/macquarie-bank-to-advise-service-stream-20080925-4o5d.html

h1000 writes...

["So you mean that they are expecting the union to sort it out?]

Yes I think so.

[What steps do you think they should take? ]

Well first off the less action by each of us the more they will push us. It is about time that we collectively pushed for what we are worth. Better pay more work. The more we lay down and take it up the Kibber pass the harder they will push.

[Have SS made a reply to the uproar?"]

Nothing nard a zilch N.a.F.T. what uproar. More like a meow.

At least SS are not down to BSA's level of really bad form.

I guy this week was laid off for no reason at all (they have given a reason but it is a BS one). 3 Years in the company 2 week notice. Then I be guessing that at the end of the 2 weeks they will rub some salt in and keep his pay. 50:1 is my bet.

Hay listen BSA SS contractors if there ever was a reason to do something for your fellow man this guy is the one. He is a good bloke hard worker dose his work.

If what you say is correct and the below CEPU circular is correct, why am I still facing MASSIVE fines with SS?

BSA withdraws fines
(4 October, 2008): Sub-contractors working for BSA in Sydney have had a win on the issue of fines for jobs needing re-works.

As reported in E-bulletin #24, sub-contractors to at least two companies with Telstra Installation and Maintenance contracts have been up in arms over fines being levied by those companies for allegedly defective work.

Under the terms of these companies’ contracts with Telstra, work performed on the network has to remain good for 40 days or there is a $140 penalty per job.

The companies have been trying to pass these penalties on to their subbies, despite the fact that Telstra’s extensive outsourcing of maintenance work has made it virtually impossible to determine responsibility for problems in the Customer Access Network – especially over a 40 day time span.

The fines subbies have been hit with have ranged from several hundred dollars to sums approaching $100,000.

With the assistance of the CEPU, the Telecommunications Sub-Contractors Association has been organising its members to challenge the legality of these moves. As a result, BSA has waived the bulk fines for most BSA subbies in Sydney for the January-September 2008 period.

The CEPU wants to see these waivers apply to all BSA and Service Stream subbies.

We are still waiting for a response to the Association’s representations to Service Stream.

If it is not satisfactory, the CEPU will assist them in taking further steps to protect themselves from these unfair practices

confused tech writes...

If what you say is correct and the below CEPU circular is correct, why am I still facing MASSIVE fines with SS?

If you don't mind me asking, what did they fine you for and how much? From what month are the fines. Have they already deducted them from your current invoice payments?

i think if you have recieved quite a few fines then there is definitly a pattern there

I attended a meeting last Friday in Canberra with a number of subbies and a CEPU delegate and he advised that SS were to issue fines shortly. He made mention that no one to his knowledge had not incurred a fine. So at this stage, no payments have been deducted from my invoice payments.

SERVICE STREAM SUBBIES DECIDE IT’S TIME FOR MORE ACTION
A meeting of Service Stream subbies, which met to consider progress on representations regarding illegal fines and all weekend work, decided it was time to take their protest to Telstra Headquarters.
The subbies and their trucks will take their case to the streets, outside Telstra Headquarters shortly, to protest about the full range of subby mistreatment by Telstra and its associated companies.
This protest will tell the full story of subby mistreatment. The pathetic rates, the bullying, the unfair contracts, the total control of the subbies by the companies on the one hand, but no guarantees of an adequate amount of work on the other, and much more.
This will be a protest not just for Service Stream subbies, but all Telecommunications subbies who are getting similar mistreatment by Telstra and its associated companies.
The date, the time and other arrangements for the protest will be notified shortly.
FINES, WEEKEND WORK AND BULLYING
The following letter has been sent to Service Stream National Management by the subbies Association.
“We write to Service Stream to formalise our concerns about two major issues currently causing great concern amongst Telecommunications Sub Contractors working on the Telstra project.
RECENT BULK FINES
It is our advice that Service Stream is not entitled to simply notify and apply bulk fines to the Sub Contractors for a previous period of several months.
Our advice is based on the following reading of the contract between Service Stream and the various sub contracting businesses.
(a) contrary to it’s obligations under Clause 6.2 Service Stream has failed to provide the particulars for each and every defect, omission or unsatisfactory work in respect of each item of the Work alleged;
(b) contrary to it’s obligation under Clause 6.2 Service Stream has failed to provide an opportunity to rectify/perform the work concerned;
© contrary to it’s obligations with Clause 6.2 Service Stream has failed to properly quantify or document:
(i) the cost of rectification; or
(ii) the basis of the calculation of decreased value;
in each of the cases of Work Failing test; and
(d) contrary to Clause 6.2(b)(2) the Company is without authority withholding monies payable in respect of Work other than Work in respect of which defects are alleged.
Further it is our view that Service Stream cannot, or should not, be applying so-called “fines” for circumstances which are outside the sub contractors control or capacity to influence.
It is our view, that in a potential rework situation, every endeavour should be made to ensure that the Sub Contractor responsible for the first TOW performance should as far as possible be issued the rework TOW, to avoid or minimise any misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the situation.

Ref: SLD 08/126
10 OCT 2008

Finally we are concerned about the persistent and seemingly wide- spread management practice at Service Stream that applies punishment.
We seek Service Stream’s views on this matter particularly to ascertain if it is part of Service Streams values to have their Managers behave in such an unacceptable, despicable fashion and if not we would like to know what Service Stream is prepared to do about it?
Your explanation or otherwise, will guide our future response or activities on the matter.
We also wish to represent the matter of the compressing of most TOW for the Sub Contractors into weekend work.
The matter has been raised with Service Stream previously.
During the life of the current contracts with Service Stream, tickets of work have been spread mainly across Monday to Friday, with the requirement to work some weekend work based on a roster which treats the sub contract work force more or less equitably.
That practice reflected the arrangements for Contractor roster availability pursuant to Clause 3.4 of the Contract. That clause requires the rostering of availability, and a unilateral change to that rostering is unreasonable and inconsistent with the contract.
It is now clear, based on some administrative decision apparently taken by Telstra, that very little work is being provided to sub contractors on Monday to Friday and they are being rostered for work on most, if not all weekends and both Saturday and Sunday.
The terms of the contact, and our expectation in entering this contract, as well as practice under the contract, (including custom and practice), is that the majority of the work would be Monday to Friday, with expectations of rostered weekend work from time-to-time, most likely on a Saturday only.
As a result of the dramatic change to this situation, which will have a serious detrimental impact on the profitability of many Sub Contractor companies if the change is persisted with, not to mention a detrimental impact on family and private life, we believe this situation should be stopped immediately and that there be a reversion to “normal” rostering and ticket of work arrangements.
We seek discussions with you on behalf of the Sub Contractors, or at least a response from the company on the above substantial issues.”

TSCA

DON’T GO TO WORK WITHOUT THE SUBBIES ASSOCIATION JOIN NOW!

Rasorback writes...

It is now clear, based on some administrative decision apparently taken by Telstra, that very little work is being provided to sub contractors on Monday to Friday and they are being rostered for work on most, if not all weekends and both Saturday and Sunday.

In some areas thats due to there not being enough work available for the Telstra techs during the week.Due to changes in the pay structure, Telstra techs are getting through more work.The dry weather has also reduced the work load.
The focus was always ,in the end , going to be about using the subcontractors more on the weekend to lower overtime costs.
The question is what were the contractors led to believe in that respect.A lot of the contractors I know are complaining about the lack of work and some are seriously considering leaving.
The situation may change come December if the rumours are true.

drekkus writes...

The situation may change come December if the rumours are true.

so what is going to happen in December ?

.

SUBBIES DECIDE ENOUGH IS
ENOUGH
Following two mass meetings of Victorian Service Stream Subbies in the
park and Telephone hookups to co-ordinate with other states it has been
decided that:
 all state branches will hold a telephone conference of all subbies in
their states on Thursday 23rd October 2008 to organise a central
protest of subbies and their trucks outside a Telstra establishment
.

 the centralised protest at a Telstra establishment in all states, will
take place at 9am eastern standard time on Thursday 30th October
2008.
 the protest of subbies and their trucks will be over the general,
chronic and long standing mistreatment of subbies by Telstra and
their associated companies. Mistreatment such as:
 * the constant reduction in real income with no increases in rates
for years.
 * the lack of work to keep their companies viable.
 * the bullying, victimisation and intimidation aimed at forcing
subbies to just cop whatever is dished out to them.
 * the unwarranted “fines” and other impositions which reduces
subby incomes even further.
 * the lack of proper back up to protect subbies health and safety,
including working unsafe hours and in unsafe weather conditions.
Many subbies on the Telstra project believe that Telstra will virtually put
the subbies companies out of business shortly, but even so they want to
try to put the issue of subby mistreatment on to the public and political
agenda.
This protest of subbies and their trucks, aimed at Telstra (and their
companies) is designed to do just that.
This is a protest for all subbies, if they wish to be involved, even those
not currently working on the Telstra project. We know they are
suffering similar mistreatment in some cases
Be involved. Get on the telephone hook up on Thursday 23rd October
(details for all states shortly) to help organise and mobilise for the
subbie truck protest the week after on Thursday 30th October (details for
all states shortly).

TSCA
United We Bargain, Divided We Beg.

THE SUBBIES TRUCK PROTEST IS ON IN VICTORIA!
After widespread consultation with the subbies and following earlier decisions in “meetings in the park”, the overwhelming majority of subbies have voted to take direct action over their mistreatment.
The Victorian subbies and their trucks have planned a protest outside Telstra HQs in 242 Exhibition Street Melbourne. This is to protest about the subbies ongoing mistreatment at the hands of Telstra Management and their satellite companies.
Protest about:
– the lack of work being provided
– being forced to work weekends only, so that Telstra doesn’t have to pay its internal staff overtime/penalty rates
– forcing subbies to pay thousands in unjustifiable so-called “fines”, a fraudulent means of making another “grab” for cash for Telstra’s coffers (and their satellite companies)
– no increase in rates for many years, even to match cost of living increases
– reduced remuneration through regular forced changes to tickets of work, equipment requirements, and even forced unpaid work
– unfair, loaded, one sided contracts which virtually remove the fundamental rights of a subby’s company, and provide “dictatorial” type powers over the subbies by the big companies
– bullying, victimisation and “bully boy” tactics used against subbies if they dare to question, argue, or challenge their mistreatment
Yes in Australia 2008, companies like Telstra (and Service Stream) and others, are able to get away with this.
Come to the protest
– demand justice for these dependent subbies
– condemn Telstra (and their satellite contracting companies) for their greed and mistreatment of these working subbies
– call on the Federal Government to change the Howard laws to make it easier for dependent subbies to collectively bargain for fair treatment
When
THURSDAY 30th OCTOBER 2008.

Something that is surprising, is the lack of press on all of this.

Are we no longer a required service. Is there no need to be concerned that for the last 5 years our rate of pay has not increased a cent. Should we not bother about the fact that every other expense has gone up by 20%. I remember paying $7 for a roll of Jumper wire. $5 for a snot box.

Come on QLD stand up for your rights. Want better for your self and your family. If we do this united they can not sack us all. If they do well it's the push we need to get out and find a real job. Sit down and work out how little you are actually keeping of the money that you earn.

FFS lets all do something b4 we are totally left behind.

The Rasor

Rasorback writes...

Something that is surprising, is the lack of press on all of this.

it's far from newsworthy

Are we no longer a required service

subbies are at the bottom of the ladder

If we do this united they can not sack us all

the remaining ones are obviously too stupid to take the hint

If they do well it's the push we need to get out and find a real job.

PUSH PUSH nudge nudge

Give up Rangar. No ones biting. Why keep posting just have your post removed. There has been no media involved as they hadn't been alerted to this but I think they have been for the rally today.

I work in a call centre and any time we get a call from a customer who has been carded while home, where the tech has put no notes into the case stating what they have done or have left a medical priority customer without a working service or an interim phone we report it through a web form. I fill out at least one of these forms per day and am yet to fill one out when a Telstra tech has attended. I'm not saying they haven’t done the wrong thing but I personally have never seen one.

I've have had cases where the customer has been sitting on the porch when the tech turns, up seen the tech get out of his van, lift the lid of the pit, look into the pit for a couple of minutes, put the lid back in place (without even getting any equipment from his van or touching the cables), get back into his van and driving away. 10 minutes later the customer gets a SMS on their mobile stating that the technician turned up and tried to gain access but no one was home.

This was not a Telstra tech because the customer saw the name of the contractor on the side of his van. Tell me should this tech be paid for this job?

TonyInTsV writes...

I fill out at least one of these forms per day and am yet to fill one out when a Telstra tech has attended. I'm not saying they haven’t done the wrong thing but I personally have never seen one.

Possibly because the Telstra techs are to some extent self policing.They can look at the history and see who was out there last.If its a Telstra tech then you can easily get their number and ring them.It would soon become obvious if someone was doing the wrong thing on a consistent basis and it doesn't pay to get a reputation.

drekkus writes...

Possibly because the Telstra techs are to some extent self policing.

100% correct (nail on the head). Telstra cut staff (few team leaders now) around 2 years ago and now the quality of work has declined. There are rogue subbies out there, I have seen them. They don't care and are not, in some cases in qualified to do the work. This is NOT (just so Rangar can hear me) why the bulk of the fines have been incurred and they are fining the good subbies with the bad ones without reason. That is, was and will continue to be what this is about. In the end game, Telstra is responsible for it's network and should have more constructive checks and balances in place.

I don't see how self policing could work. If the tech does the wrong thing it is recorded and can not be deleted or changed. The only thing I have ever reported a Telstra tech for was leaving his tools (a screwdriver kit) at the customers premises. I called workforce management and they called the tech and he went and picked it up.

TonyInTsV writes...

I don't see how self policing could work. If the tech does the wrong thing it is recorded and can not be deleted or changed.

The thing is, finding out that they have done the wrong thing.

it doesn't matter if they find out they did something wrong unless they go and fix it up before the customer complains other wise they get reported any way.

it doesn't matter if they find out they did something wrong unless they go and fix it up before the customer complains other wise they get reported any way.

Usually the customer is one of the last to know what actually happened. I was in a location where a faultman put a fault on another line trying to fix his ticket of work and that customer came and saw me while I was working in the area so I went and fixed it free of charge. This stuff happens all the time. Again,
this is not what this thread is about though.

TonyInTsV writes...

If the tech does the wrong thing it is recorded and can not be deleted or changed.

Only if its done on the service they were working on.

ServiceStream are a joke. The techs had 14 days to respond to rework fines and their supervisors would let them know if the fines were to be passed on to them. It turns out that was just a waste of time. As even if the supervisor had said that they would not receive a fine, it wouldn't make a difference as someone higher up goes over them again and makes the decision.

Of course their decision is to give the contractors the fines regardless of the reasons. DTOW's seem to be the only jobs that contractor's aren't receiving fines for. Even jumper runners are being fined where a tech has gone out and proven the fault inside the property – if there was a fault at all. How can that be? Their job is to only run jumpers in the exchange.

Now ServiceStream have given figures to techs telling them that they will be receiving fines for X amount and not even detailing what jobs they were for. They said they will start deducting earnings from techs each week starting from Monday 8 December 2008. I would like to see them try this as it is illegal and breaking the contract. They would have a whole heap of law suits on their hands. They have not given tech's the opportunity to fix the problem or even proven that the tech was at fault. Also they are breaking the contract by trying to fine techs for jobs back as early as March.

There was a note pinned on the notice board in Mordialloc exchange today.It said that the Servicestream contractors are having a meeting tomorrow(Wed) in Gells park,Glen Waverly(vic).Mmm very interesting.If i took a package i wouldn't become a contractor,they are getting screwed bigtime.
CD

Crazy Diamond writes...

If i took a package i wouldn't become a contractor,they are getting screwed bigtime.

Same thinking here .It was have to be an extremely good deal or I would have to be desperate to want to continue doing the work as a contractor.
Quite a few of the Adelaide contractors have left due to lack of work and their conditions being screwed down.

drekkus writes...

Quite a few of the Adelaide contractors have left due to lack of work and their conditions being screwed down.

Spoke to another one today at Brighton XGE, says he can't afford to keep working anymore. Has applied for a job with company installing phone systems/PABX's etc.

Here's my take on the re-report saga. I was taught many years ago to follow thew CYA policy – Cover Your Ass.

- Make sure you get a good FAST/OATS on every job possible
- If you can't, make sure you have submitted/re-reported a cni
- Leave notes on every TOW and not just 'DT to skt"
- keep a diary ( have all my diaries back to 1997),

ASM at our last team breif said 're-reports where a ct has submitted/re-reported a cni, is filtered out i.e. not included

Considering the state of the network currently (as stated by many on this post), almost every TOW can have a cni on it somewhere, and a cni is a statement that the fault can't be fix permanently on that day because more work is required that is beyond the scope of what can be done on an individual fault. And before anyone says 'cni's aren't getting done' that's not a ct's (subbie or Telstra tech) problem.

P.s. Telstra tech's on awa's are paid nothing for an install that they incomplete due to an NIA, which is why you call on approach and if no answer go straight to the premises to see if they are there so you waste as little time as possible if they are not.

JT

It looks like Telstra have got the word in Melbourne that there might be strike action and are trying to suss out how many are going to work through the strike so they can bring people down from QLD.