Whirlpool

Hi Everyone,

Thanks to our new relationship with iiNet, Westnet will shortly be able to offer broadband2+ on the iiNet Network. We are now looking for a limited number of participants on selected iiNet enabled exchanges around Australia.

Westnet’s New Broadband2+ Trial Terms and Conditions
• You must have an existing Broadband1 service with Westnet.
• Customers with an existing Westnet Broadband2+ service on the Optus ULL network are not eligible participate.
• Your existing monthly fee will be waived during the test period only. Once the trial period is over, you will be required to resume paying the monthly fee.
• You must be the account holder.
• Westnet is seeking a maximum of 30 test customers. We will advise all successful applicants via email prior to commencement of the trial.
• You must be located within selected exchanges to be eligible.
• You agree the service may not meet service expectations during the testing period.
• Email confirmation will be sent once the ADSL2+ (Broadband2+) service has been activated.
• Test period will run from the date of activation. Further correspondence will be sent relating to test end date closer to the time.
• You will be required to provide feedback on a regular basis and to report any problems with the service to westnetadsl2@westnet.com.au.
• ADSL2+ (Broadband2+) plans, downloads and prices will differ – You must select either an ADSL2+ (Broadband2+) plan or revert to the original plan at the end of the trial. All new Broadband2+ plans will be made available prior to the end of the trial.

If you agree/comply to these T&Cs and are still interested, please register your interest by emailing westnetadsl2@westnet.com.au by 5pm Thursday 4 September 2008 and include:

• Name
• Username
• Modem/Router Make & Model
• Phone Number (DSL Line Number)

What happens next?
Westnet will advise all successful applicants via email by close of business Monday 8th of September.

Other important information:
A launch date has not yet been set for our new Broadband2+ service. As soon as this is confirmed, we will let you know.

Hi Scott, couple of questions:

1) Is there an anticipated downtime for the cutover? For the Optus DSL2+ trial it was up to two weeks potential downtime IIRC....

2) At the end of the trial when you choose your ongoing plan are you locked into any new contract period, eg a 6 month commitment similar to when you sign up to a brand new service? I ask this one because I'm moving house in about 7 months.

Dudley writes...

1) Is there an anticipated downtime for the cutover? For the Optus DSL2+ trial it was up to two weeks potential downtime IIRC....

I don't think there would be [that much downtime], as from what has been said this will be an LSS product, not a ULL one.

Gotta ask though.

My exchange is not on the iinet network..I would have loved to be apart of this.

Scott McKenzie writes...

Westnet is seeking a maximum of 30 test customers.

I Guess most applicants will be disappointed

>>>>>My exchange is not on the iinet network..I would have loved to be apart of this<<<<

Ditto here mate, I am on the Kirwan Exchange – Townsville, no iinet ADSL2+ services here.

Pity

Shout
Craftbrewer

Scott McKenzie writes...

We are now looking for a limited number of participants on selected iiNet enabled exchanges around Australia.

Shouldn't you have listed which exchanges you are offering this trial for, rather than get hit with 100's of apps that have no change of getting ADSL2+ in the first place? Not to mention the ones that aren't even selected that are iiNet ADSL2+ enabled.

Some good questions!

Dudley writes...

1) Is there an anticipated downtime for the cutover? For the Optus DSL2+ trial it was up to two weeks potential downtime IIRC....

Expected downtime is small (less than 2 hours) for the cutover. As a testing customer however, there's always the possibility of issues causing days of downtime, beginning at cutover. I would say don't apply if you can't afford to be offline for significant periods of time. Worst case, it could take us up to a week to get you back on DSL1.

2) At the end of the trial when you choose your ongoing plan are you locked into any new contract period, eg a 6 month commitment similar to when you sign up to a brand new service? I ask this one because I'm moving house in about 7 months.

There may be new contracts or connection fees for customers upgrading to dsl2, but this will be confirmed closer to launch. Trial participants will have the same offer of service as new customers have following launch, with the option of returning to your old service with no penalty. As there is definitely no connection fee for customers in the trial, trial participants essentially get free connection.

Oi³ writes...

Shouldn't you have listed which exchanges you are offering this trial for, rather than get hit with 100's of apps that have no change of getting ADSL2+ in the first place? Not to mention the ones that aren't even selected that are iiNet ADSL2+ enabled.

It would be possible to participate in the trial if you are on any iiNet enabled exchange.

If you use the Number checker on this page: http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/, you can see if your exchange is enabled for iiNet, and this would be a good indicator of eligibility for the trial.

Scott McKenzie writes...

Customers with an existing Westnet Broadband2+ service on the Optus ULL network are not eligible participate.

poop :-(

... edit.. just noticed that this thread is two days old.....

Damn i must spend more time in the westnet forums!

ok – I take it the trail numbers have been reached?

What I was wondering is, once the trail is over and you decline to remain on ADSL2+ – how 'exactly' do they put you back? do WN merely keep you on the new equipment and throttle your line at ADSL1 speeds OR do you physically go back to your pre-trial port?

:-)

Maveri writes...

do WN merely keep you on the new equipment and throttle your line at ADSL1 speeds OR do you physically go back to your pre-trial port?

I'd hazard a pretty educated guess in that they'd move you back to the TW DSLAM port you were on originally.

Maveri writes...

ok – I take it the trail numbers have been reached?

What I was wondering is, once the trail is over and you decline to remain on ADSL2+ – how 'exactly' do they put you back? do WN merely keep you on the new equipment and throttle your line at ADSL1 speeds OR do you physically go back to your pre-trial port?

Hi Maveri,

I am not too sure myself, however I have contacted staff more familiar with the specifics of the trial and asked them to respond to your post.

Matt

Maveri writes...

ok – I take it the trail numbers have been reached?

There's still opportunities for customers in NSW, VIC, SA, and ACT to participate.

What I was wondering is, once the trail is over and you decline to remain on ADSL2+ – how 'exactly' do they put you back? do WN merely keep you on the new equipment and throttle your line at ADSL1 speeds OR do you physically go back to your pre-trial port?

You will be moved back to a Telstra DSL1 port if you do not wish to move to one of the yet to be announced DSL2 plans at the end of the trial period. There is no facility to move you back to the same DSL1 port however.

elithrar writes...

I'd hazard a pretty educated guess in that they'd move you back to the TW DSLAM port you were on originally.

not good if your exchange has no vacant ports – you could find yourself without a connection waiting for a port to come up

Thats one of the risks you need to accept for these kinds of trials. Worst case you wait on DSL2+ (on a plan you're willing to pay for) until a DSL1 port comes up again.

Neil McIntyre writes...

You will be moved back to a Telstra DSL1 port if you do not wish to move to one of the yet to be announced DSL2 plans at the end of the trial period. There is no facility to move you back to the same DSL1 port however.

Ah – that's why I thought I'd ask – thanks for the update.

In my case, I fought tooth and nail with issues for a long time over a particular port in my exchange – I even left iiNet a number of years ago to try and get a resolution – In the end a great Tel$tra technician forced the exchange staff to unplug me from my troublesome port and plug me into a new one (up until that point all they ever did was reset the port – grrr – it was sort of funny – there was almsot a shouting match going on with the Tel$tra technition threatening the exchange staff people to come up there and do it himself if they refused! Told them to look at my problem history and wake up to themselves LOL). I'm very reluctant to let go of my good port for the possibility of being put back on the old one :-(

Also – you'd have to think twice if you were on an exchange with limited or no ports left – as soon as you give up your port, Tel$tra will give it to the next waiting in line.

I play a fair amount of UT3, so getting the best ping time is important to me – is it still the case where ADSL2 has additional overheads compared to ADSL1 and therefore has a slightly greater latency?

EDIT:

Dudley writes...

Thats one of the risks you need to accept for these kinds of trials. Worst case you wait on DSL2+ (on a plan you're willing to pay for) until a DSL1 port comes up again.

Actually – worse case is that you remain on the ADSL2 equipment AND you pay more for your plan! (yes – I have no idea as to whether the cost will be more or less – but we are discussing 'worst' case here and the worst case is that plan prices go up).

EDIT2:

That raised an interesting point. What happens if you cannot go back to your ADSL1 plan but opt to?

Do WN give you the ADSL2 port but charge you your old plan rate and you have those conditions? It's alright if the new plans are cheaper with more quota but what about if they are worse off and you want to remain with what you had but now cannot due to the port being taken?

I don't see that listed in the conditions (unless it's implied/covered by an overriding principal) – I'm guessing WN would come up with an amicable solution – but it would still be interesting to know...

:-)

Maveri writes...

I play a fair amount of UT3, so getting the best ping time is important to me – is it still the case where ADSL2 has additional overheads compared to ADSL1 and therefore has a slightly greater latency?

As iiNet allow you to change to a "Gamer" profile with next-to-no interleaving, I'd say that Westnet would be able to provide this profile as an option too?

Interleaving is barely noticeable though – I see 10-15ms TF2 pings on my interleaved DSL2+ ("Extreme" profile) connection with iiNet to their game servers, as well as to Westnets' 3FL servers.

That raised an interesting point. What happens if you cannot go back to your ADSL1 plan but opt to?

They'd probably wait until a port opened up to switch you back? It's rare that a TW DSLAM is full, though.

Heck, you might not even be eligible for the trial if there's the possibility of this occurring – I believe port numbers are up on Telstra Wholesales' website somewhere in .xls format.

you'd want it in writing that you'll get a port if you opt out – our exchange, Australind, had none spare and there was a queue waiting for ports just a couple of months ago.

dddp writes...

you'd want it in writing that you'll get a port if you opt out – our exchange, Australind, had none spare and there was a queue waiting for ports just a couple of months ago.

Really, we can't offer those sorts of guarantees – no-one can. We could add a check to avoid offering a spot in the trial where it's unlikely that they can return to the DSL1 service, but we can't reserve a Telstra port for them while they are in the trial.

It's good to examine these issues, but we're talking about a very limited number of participants, which will hopefully be carefully selected to reduce those sorts of risks. At some point though, it has to be assumed that if you want to be in the trial, you'd probably like to be on the iiNetwork, and you probably think it's going to be a better product for you than what you have.

As far as possible problems are concerned; the best we can do is to be as flexible as we possibly can for anyone that has negative impact as a result of trial participation.

And don't forget, even if it takes a while to get back to a DSL1 port and you're paying more on DSL2+, during the trial you're paying $0 for your broadband so it would probably even out anyway.

Those who registered for the trial are likely to stay on the iiNetwork once the trial is complete anyway. I can't see why not – the plans will most certainly be faster and cheaper than DSL1.

That said, people we were warned about potential downtime because this is a trial – that includes at opt-out time as well if any problem arises.

I would love to have been part of this trial (my exchange has an iiNet DSLAM in it) but I can't afford any possible downtime, so I will wait for the finished product.

Neil McIntyre writes...

It's good to examine these issues

for sure – i do understand you can't guarantee the ports. It's just a shame there's no iistuff at my local else i'dve put my hand up :)

Scott McKenzie writes...

Westnet will advise all successful applicants via email by close of business Monday 8th of September.

so did anyone receive an email?

i didn't. :(

nope

looktall writes...

so did anyone receive an email?

I did, they said although there currently isn't a iiNet DSLAM in your exchange we will be installing one shortly.... but then the alarm woke me up so I never did find out if they did or not. Things we dream about :-)

looktall writes...

o did anyone receive an email?

I suppose with only 30 testers nationwide then odds not high. A couple of years back I remember Ryan Bunter offered ADSL2 trials, I heard nothing from that one either. It would be nice if that having spent the time to apply if they could send applicants a nice thanks for applying email but because of whatever technical reason or just plain bad luck you haven't made it.
Actually I thought I would be accepted as I have an 8 Mb ADSL1 service, Exchange has iinet dslams, no OPTUS, I have ADSL2 modem, I am a fair way from the exchange so good to test "how far ?". I have 5 PCs here sharing the service with a variety of applications and a fairly high download volume. Also we do use it day and evening and off peak so a good all round test bed I would have thought.
Oh well such is life !

Harry writes...

A couple of years back I remember Ryan Bunter offered ADSL2 trials, I heard nothing from that one either.

Yeah only trial participants were notified that time around.

Could be the same this time. If you haven't gotten an email I guess just assume you aren't in the trial.

Dudley writes...

Yeah only trial participants were notified that time around.

It would be nice to have some form of acknowledgment though...how about unsuccessful applicants getting priority (say a weeks lead to apply) for transferring to ADSL2 in an iinet DSLAM ?

Harry writes...

It would be nice to have some form of acknowledgment though.

I think that's reasonable; we'll try to reply to everyone this time around.

I would expect at least that potential participants will be notified over the next few days, and possibly shortly after that, a response to everyone else.

how about unsuccessful applicants getting priority (say a weeks lead to apply) for transferring to ADSL2 in an iinet DSLAM ?

I don't think that will be feasible. We'll be selling the product as soon as the systems are in place to support its sale – anything prior to that is trial participation.

Neil McIntyre writes...

I think that's reasonable; we'll try to reply to everyone this time around.

thanks !!!

Send us a "I applied for the Westnet Broadband2+ Service Trial and all I got was this t-shirt" t-shirt.

Do we get to keep our static IP addresses during the trial? Or put another way, will moving to a Broadband2+ connection on iiNet ports require us to be given a different static IP?

i received an email from westnet today regarding the trial.....
i didn't get accepted.

bugger.

looktall writes...

i received an email from westnet today regarding the trial.....
i didn't get accepted.

For FYI, what exchange are you on?

ah, good question.

i'm on the maida vale exchange, which has iinet equipment in place.

Dudley writes...

Do we get to keep our static IP addresses during the trial? Or put another way, will moving to a Broadband2+ connection on iiNet ports require us to be given a different static IP?

Yes; or put another way, no ;)

Definitely no i.p. change going from TW <-> ii Ports as part of the trial, and very unlikely as part of the release product.

Opt <-> ii is subject to the same limitations as Opt <-> TW unfortunately (Likely requires change of I.P. address)

Neil McIntyre writes...

Yes; or put another way, no ;)

Great!

Neil McIntyre writes...

Opt <-> ii is subject to the same limitations as Opt <-> TW unfortunately (Likely requires change of I.P. address)

Just on this, I would advise anyone who changes from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ on an Optus DSLAM (or Optus to iiNet in the future) to make sure your static IP changes with the change of plan. If it doesn't, call Support and make sure it gets done ASAP.

If you don't get it changed at that time, you will most likely receive a phone call a few months later from Westnet saying you have to change it within X days. They are flexible with that time frame but they try to get it done ASAP.

For most people this will be no issue, but for those who rely on the static for multiple things need to be prepared to change when changing from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ (using an Optus DSLAM).

Definitely no i.p. change going from TW <-> ii Ports as part of the trial, and very unlikely as part of the release product.

Very happy to hear that. The IP change from TW to Optus was a royal pain in the rear... and the stupid thing is that the "old" IPs work fine on the Optus DSLAMs.

I received a call from Westnet almost 6 months after I changed to ADSL2+ saying I had to change the IP because it wasn't done at the time. There was absolutely no problem with the connection in that 6 months, so it's definitely not a "required" change.

I was told that the change IP was something that was decided internally to easily identify ADSL2+ accounts. I suspect it was more to do with the old "routing table memory usage" issue, but that is what we are paying $5 a month for these days so I didn't quite understand what the fuss was about.

That said, it was a pain at the time but it's all good now :)

I had this happen with 3 different account changes so just a heads up to those changing from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ to make sure it gets done.

Giga writes...

so it's definitely not a "required" change.

Actually, you got lucky. Most customers would have had no traffic flow until changed, depending on the state they are in.

There are also numerous back end systems that rely on customers having IPs from the correct IP pool. If they don't, things don't always operate as expected.

Jason Bailey writes...

Actually, you got lucky. Most customers would have had no traffic flow until changed, depending on the state they are in.

I had this happen on 3 separate accounts (all in WA). Never an issue on any of them prior to being told the IP had to be changed.

There are also numerous back end systems that rely on customers having IPs from the correct IP pool. If they don't, things don't always operate as expected.

I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about (I'm not one to argue about a network that I don't manage) but past experience tells me that which IP pool a user is in doesn't matter (at least not in WA anyway).

I had the same issue arise in the change from dialup to ADSL1. I had to upgrade 10 or so accounts at the same time from dialup to ADSL years ago, and none of the IPs were changed then (no one mentioned it).

Everything works fine for years (no traffic issues at all), and then I get a random call from Westnet saying they had to be changed.

It has all long been sorted now, but it was still odd getting a multiple requests to change to a different static IP (obviously a loose term) quite a while after the actual event with no problems experienced.

Maybe I was just lucky.

Giga writes...

but past experience tells me that which IP pool a user is in doesn't matter (at least not in WA anyway)

It doesn't in WA, nor in NSW. In Qld it would, as Qld connections go to a POP in NSW by my understanding (or they did when ADSL2+ was first launched).

Generally its safest if people understand that the change will require a change in IP.

Heh, I applied for the trial lul.

Rozza0 writes...

Heh, I applied for the trial lul.

How did you find out about the trial? Considering you only joined WP on the 14th September and for the trial you had to reply by 5pm Thursday 4 September 2008.

There were emails sent to customers on exchanges that qualified for the trial. You didn't have to just hear about it on WP.

Yeah, Westnet sent an email to me.

Rozza0 writes...

Yeah, Westnet sent an email to me.

Given there were only 30 places , that would probably be one per suitable exchange, the emails would have gone to those who were on exchanges that there were no volunteers for.
I would hazard a guess that most testers would be staff members.

Harry writes...

I would hazard a guess that most testers would be staff members.

If there was internal technical testing for staff I'd hazard a guess it was done prior to this customer trial, much like the first ADSL2+ trial.

Rozza0 writes...

Westnet sent an email to me.

Ah o.k :-)

Changeover went okay. Couple hours downtime where I was getting ADSL2+ line sync but couldn't logon. Left it alone for a while, rebooted modem one more time, all working now.

Modem stats:
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 980 kbps
Downstream 9792 kbps (synced in the 10000's earlier on though)
Noise Margin (Upstream) 11.1 db
Noise Margin (Downstream) 10.1 db
Attenuation (Upstream) 24.0 db
Attenuation (Downstream) 37.0 db

On Westnet ADSL2+ through Optus I was getting:

Attn: 19.2db up, 36.0 down SNR: 16.8db up, 13.0db down
Modem sync speeds: 11157/812kb/s

http://mirror.3fl.net.au/pub/speedtest/100mb.txt downloading at 1.0MB/sec.

Dudley writes...

Changeover went okay. Couple hours downtime where I was getting ADSL2+ line sync but couldn't logon. Left it alone for a while, rebooted modem one more time, all working now.

That's interesting that you had synch but no service for so long. Good that it's all working! We're still in the process of determining whether everyone who should have been cut over has been so far.

It's also interesting that your synch speed is lower than your Optus trial was; we've found that they are generally higher (Optus seem to try for a higher SNR).

Neil McIntyre writes...

It's also interesting that your synch speed is lower than your Optus trial was; we've found that they are generally higher (Optus seem to try for a higher SNR).

I found during the Optus trial that downstream sync would vary each time I restarted the router, so say in a 15 minute period I did 3 restarts I might have gotten anything from say 9500 up to 11500. This time it was syncing at around 10300 once or twice, it just so happens that the first time it successfully authenticated its a bit lower. I'll try a few resets later on and see what sync speeds I get.

I have a question, when adsl2+ becomes available through iinet will westnet be the same as iinet in terms of consistency in speed? The one thing i have noticed about iinet is that speeds vary a lot during different times of the day and week. If westnet becomes the same as iinet i might look for another isp

How is the general feeling now? Is it stable? People getting good sync speeds? Any problems generally?

I assume it should go well for most the first time since it really is an iinet product, right?

I'm seeing consistently good speeds. I don't think I've found myself unable to max it out any time of day, and the stability is good too.

I'm syncing at above 11000 now (thanks Neil) so its as good as the Optus port I was on in the last trial.