Whirlpool

I am really sick and tired of Telstra/BigPond’s inability to maintain a workable service and provide what they say they will provide. Unfortunately as I live in rural Oz and am 8k from the exchange, Telstra Wireless is now the only option available. (I had loads of trouble with the early satellite service which was unstable and had flaky software. Add to that the biggest botch of all times when I upgraded to a new satellite service, and complete incompetence with the instillation of business broadband in my shop, and I have zero faith in their ability to get anything right.)

My woes on this one started about a month ago when the Wireless network started to drop out and slowed down for certain parts of the day. I first reported it three weeks ago, but the guy who took the call was not satisfied it was a real problem and asked me to keep an eye on it, and if it got worse to call back. The fact that I had two Wireless accounts, two computers and two different levels of WinDoze; live in a house surrounded by paddocks and can see the main tower in the area (15k away on top of the mountain) was not seen as significant, and still had the fellow I was dealing with thinking it was a problem at my end.

As it was slowly getting worse, I rang back two days later and reported it again. A few days later the situation had got substantially worse. At various parts of the day, especially around three o'clock in the afternoon and beyond, the service would continually drop out and be so slow it was unusable. Download speeds of 15.6k, which is way slower than the worst dial up speed imaginable, were commonplace.

Two weeks I contacted the TIO, and subquently had a case manager appointed by BigPond. After that, a number of conversations took place and then I sent the following fax, which in part said…

“It has now been fifteen days since I first rang to report the problem and I am not impressed that it has not been rectified, and for much of the time, especially in the afternoon and evening, the service is either completely unavailable or so overloaded that it is unusable.

Your letter states, “We deeply regret that you have formed a negative view of BigPond resulting from your recent experience with our staff and appreciate the effort you have made expressing your views.”

That negative opinion is growing. For the record I also wish to state I was completely unimpressed with a couple of events last week.

When we spoke last week you told me you would be off the next day; you informed me that someone else would ring with an update. That did not occur. When I rang you late the following day, having you telling me to ring the help desk to obtain an update myself, was not what I expected. I was under the misguided and perhaps, deluded impression, that it was your job to keep me informed of the status of the case. However, I managed to waste more than a further half an hour of my time in finding out that “they were working on it, but were not sure if it was a component problem or an interference problem, and the repair staff did not know how long it would take to get fixed.” I was also told they hoped to (possibly) have it done within 20 days of my first reporting it.”

Two days later I received a phone call, which went to voice mail. In the message, she apologised for the technical support people not having contacted me, but of course made no mention, or apology about getting me to ring technical support for the answer myself. She is now on holidays.

This afternoon, it took 20 minutes to bring up one BigPond page. I only had to log on about seven times to do it, and so I rang the BigPond Customer Relations number and spoke to the supervisor. In a nutshell, he said he would get technical support to look into it and ring me back with an expected fix date, assuming there is one.

The upshot was that it will take as long as it takes, and there is not a damn thing I can say or do, that will make any difference whatsoever. However, the supervisor, in a fit of magnanimous generosity, said they would refund the fee for the period the service was not working properly. After haranguing the guy for about 10 minutes, he did say they would contemplate an additional month free rental as well.

Basically, the reality is that when push comes to shove, Telstra doesn't give a rodents posterior about their customers. If they did, the supervisor would have immediately made an offer of goodwill, rather than having to be pressured into suggesting the possibility even existed.

Meanwhile, for much of the day, my internet service is basically unusable. And for this, I'm paying the privilege of spending $230 for 6GB (although I will be changing to a new plan and ditching one of my accounts.)

The telecommunications monopoly in the bush is a wonderful thing – for Telstra that is; but it means that unfortunately, those that are reliant on the service can be pillaged and plundered without the satisfaction of being screwed.

while i can empathise with your situation.

it should be pointed out that telstra/bigpond are in no way obliged to provide an internet service to you at all.

Secondly, if it was not for Next-G and Telstra Optus/Vodaphone Etc would not now be playing there Accelerated Catchup game to try and install/setup and create a similar level of coverage/service.

There have never been any reasons to stop competitors installing services in the bush, they just dont see it as equitable, untill very recently when Telstra has proven the uptake and General want by customers for Broadband/wireless and that if left with no other choose will happily(in most cases) pay for the privileged of it at a premium, which is what has attracted Optus etc to go with there roll out.

Depending on what the issue is, and by the Sounds of it is Either Cell Congestion/Antenna Issues or Back haul, Are not issues that are fixed with the click of a finger, if an issue is identified it will be fixed, the time frame on that however is not always within telstra's control if additional equipment/man power or specialists are required which are likely at a premium at the moment

Interesting opinion.

I agree that Telstra/BP are under no obligation to provide a service to me, but the fact of the matter is that Telstra/BP made the decision to enter this market and provide the service; probably because they figured it was profitable.

I don't have any issue with them making a profit, but I do bloody well object to them taking my money and not delivering the goods. In an other industry, they would be subject to the TPA and have to deliver on a reasonable service or suffer the consequences. Its only because of history they are exempt.

I received a phone call a little while ago and the problem has been identified but they have no idea how long it will take to fix.

Meantime, I the mug customer who are paying these peoples salaries, have to put up with a service that is completely substandard and not of merchandisable quality.

If they don't have the resources to fix problems in a timely fashion, and they have had three weeks already, then they deserve all the flack they get. In any other industry, they could not get away with this pathetic service.

"We do it this way because this is the way we do it".

You 15KM from the base station or 8km ?

as you said 8km from the exchange (most of the country/rural exchange i have seen have a base station, maybe different in your town)

Have you try an high gain antenna?

TORB writes...

the fact of the matter is that Telstra/BP made the decision to enter this market and provide the service

that doesn't, however, render either themselves or yourself immune from service faults, which can and will occur. yes, they can take time to diagnose and fix. yes, you will be expected to call and advise if you are having problems.

probably because they figured it was profitable.

a somewhat puzzling statement; I don't know many other reasons for a company deciding to sell products.

I don't have any issue with them making a profit, but I do bloody well object to them taking my money and not delivering the goods.

see above. stuff breaks. instant fixes aren't a realistic expectation, especially where wireless services are concerned.

Its only because of history they are exempt.

rubbish.

I received a phone call a little while ago and the problem has been identified but they have no idea how long it will take to fix.

would you prefer they made up a number? if there's no fixed date, there's no fixed date.

Meantime, I the mug customer who are paying these peoples salaries, have to put up with a service that is completely substandard and not of merchandisable quality.

then discontinue the service, it's your choice to continue to maintain it.

Casper,

I am 8k from the local exchange but 15k away from the main tower in the area which is on top of a mountain. It is the main tower that has the problem.

packetstorm writes...

that doesn't, however, render either themselves or yourself immune from service faults, which can and will occur. yes, they can take time to diagnose and fix. yes, you will be expected to call and advise if you are having problems.

Service difficulties are to be expected. But by the same token, the ability to repair broken equipment in a reasonable time fame is also a reasonable expectation. Can you name any other [b]essential services[/b] where it is acceptable to make customers wait for three weeks+ to get a fault repaired?

stuff breaks. instant fixes aren't a realistic expectation, especially where wireless services are concerned.

Agreed, but I didn't not ask for an instant fix. They have had three weeks to analyse and fix the problem.

would you prefer they made up a number? if there's no fixed date, there's no fixed date.

So, if you think Telstra is entirely reasonable in this regard, how long do you think is a reason time to make customers wait to have a problem like this resolved?

You are right, making up the date is not a solution, and I didn't suggest they embark on that course. The solution is for Telstra to employ enough staff with sufficient expertise to diagnose and repair faults in a timely fashion.

rubbish.

Always happy to learn when I am incorrect. If I am wrong, perhaps you would be kind enough to point me in the direction of any recent changes to the Trade Practice Legislation that confirms what I said is "rubbish"?

then discontinue the service, it's your choice to continue to maintain it.

I guess you must have missed the second sentence in my opening paragraph which states, "Unfortunately as I live in rural Oz and am 8k from the exchange, Telstra Wireless is now the only option available." So unfortunately if I want to have broadband access, I don't have a choice.

Just interested, do you work for Telecom or a related organisation?

Casper_1987 writes...

Have you try an high gain antenna?

15km is a fair distance from the tower. How many bars of reception do you get on a 3g mobile phone? A high gain antenna would certainly be my first option if you haven't already got one.

TORB writes...

Agreed, but I didn't not ask for an instant fix. They have had three weeks to analyse and fix the problem.

if the issue is network signal strength due to a black spot or signal reflection then three weeks is not going to do it. that's an infrastructure level issue.

So, if you think Telstra is entirely reasonable in this regard, how long do you think is a reason time to make customers wait to have a problem like this resolved?

I think the answer to that is that it depends entirely on what is wrong. yes, depending on the circumstances it might be a considerable periof of time, eg if the fix is an engineering one.

The solution is for Telstra to employ enough staff with sufficient expertise to diagnose and repair faults in a timely fashion.

you're assuming that the "repair" is for someone to go out and bung a screwdriver on a piece of kit. I suspect otherwise, or it would have been done.

Always happy to learn when I am incorrect. If I am wrong, perhaps you would be kind enough to point me in the direction of any recent changes to the Trade Practice Legislation that confirms what I said is "rubbish"?

your original statement was:

In an other industry, they would be subject to the TPA and have to deliver on a reasonable service or suffer the consequences. Its only because of history they are exempt.

I refuted your statement that there was some sort of historical factor to any such exemption.

I guess you must have missed the second sentence in my opening paragraph which states, "Unfortunately as I live in rural Oz and am 8k from the exchange, Telstra Wireless is now the only option available." So unfortunately if I want to have broadband access, I don't have a choice.

I saw it fine. lack of alternative access does not mean Telstra is obligated to provide you with a solution, or that you're entitled to one.

Just interested, do you work for Telecom or a related organisation?

I work in the telecomms industry and I have long since lost patience with some of the attitudes and expectations that consumers of the industry sometimes demonstrate. this is an example.

TORB writes...

essential services

wireless broadband isnt an essential service

They have had three weeks to analyse and fix the problem

obviously its going to take longer, check out other threads where people , not in the country, wait longer ( recent 3mth naked issue comes to mind ) for issues to get fixed

unless you can prove they are sitting there doing nothing is suggest you take up yoga to get thru the stressfulness of not having broadband

Telstra Wireless is now the only option available." So unfortunately if I want to have broadband access, I don't have a choice

"want" being the point

Just interested, do you work for Telecom or a related organisation?

why does it always come down to this when someone doesnt get the support for their anti-telstra rant?

Casper,

I don't normally have a reception issue. It's 5 bars most of the time, four sometimes. The service also worked fine for the first three months.

Packetstorm,

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about what is a reasonable time to fix a problem.

packetstorm writes...

your original statement was:

In an other industry, they would be subject to the TPA and have to deliver on a reasonable service or suffer the consequences. Its only because of history they are exempt.

I refuted your statement that there was some sort of historical factor to any such exemption.

Actually you didn't. You said "rubbish." That is not refuting anything. To refute something you have to prove it is erroneous. Saying something is "rubbish" does not prove anything. I then admitted that I was happy to be proved incorrect and asked you to show me/tell me why I am incorrect and what I said was rubbish. After this second request you have still only said "rubbish." Please answer the question.

lack of alternative access does not mean Telstra is obligated to provide you with a solution, or that you're entitled to one.

Ah yes, true. However, if I have contracted to pay for a service, then I expect the service should be provided.

drachir,

wireless broadband isnt an essential service

True! Wireless Broadband is not an essential service, but remember the Federal Government mandated that broadband was an essential service, and that's exactly why they passed the legislation and provided the HIBS subsidy which provides both providers and consumers with subsidies which enable them to afford broadband.

The only reason I switched away from the satellite service is because it ends in a couple of months anyway, and Telstra approached me and with an incentive to switch early.

[""want" being the point']

No; I need/require broadband. I run a business and have my own internet site. My requirements mean that dial up is completely unproductive and almost impossible to use.

["Just interested, do you work for Telecom or a related organisation?

why does it always come down to this when someone doesnt get the support for their anti-telstra rant?"]

Good question and seeing as how you asked it, I will provide a full answer.

Firstly, packetstorm looked like he was not Joe Average consumer and was in the business. Secondly, on this forum we are mostly anonymous, so if someone has a vested interest, it’s good to know about it. The fact that he works in the industry also helps explain his further comment "I work in the telecomms industry and I have long since lost patience with some of the attitudes and expectations that consumers of the industry sometimes demonstrate. this is an example."

As far as this being an "anti-Telstra rant" is concerned, I would post the same comments about any company that provided unsatisfactory services. (Or tries to dupe the public. For proof of that just have a look at www.torbwine.com)

Hi Torb, Seeing as everyone else is being overly harsh I will come in with a bit of support.

If your Wireless is unusable you should not be paying for it. Simply refuse to pay any bills which arrive while it is offline and if Telstra complain, go to the TIO.

Jourama writes...

If your Wireless is unusable you should not be paying for it. Simply refuse to pay any bills which arrive while it is offline

And watch the defaults start appearing on your credit rating.

I suggest the OP not follow this advice. It's nothing but bad.

The service also worked fine for the first three month

well when telstra have fixed your issue then it should all work fine again

i am not sure what you want from starting this thread? you have an issue, telstra are looking into it/fixing it so what are you after?

... dont get upset about who says what – that is why there is this forum – to discuss troubles ...... ... it is a good thing if industry players comment – you may just get a roughly honest reply .... ... im ex-telstra too ... but this broadband and wireless is a whole new field – im learning just like everybody else is and im confused about a lot of it ..... i was in data management – now im glad to be out , it is far too technical .... ...
... that tower you look at may have nothing to do with your troubles ... maybe plain old congestion – sounds like schools out and kiddies all playing internet games ... ... till bedtime ... .................

... in the early days of telephones – there was a big problem, everytime it rained the phone would hummmmm and whistle and crackle ... then after years of this "service" somebody discovered if the cable was pumped with air it would put pressure in the cable and keep the moisture out of the cable – service improved dramatically – then the copper cable would corrode quicker due to the compressed air .... so nitrogen ( or was it helium , hydrogen ?) ..was added to the air to reduce the corrosion effect .... but that change was not so noticable by the customer ....
... in those days few customers had exclusive service – they shared with the neighbours ( partyline ) ... ... so every generation has it troubles – you must learn to make do with what you have for a while – you are sharing the wireless signals..... what alternatives can you use ??.... post office – write a letter >....

TORB writes...

I am really sick and tired of Telstra/BigPond’s inability to maintain a workable service and provide what they say they will provide.

Hey TORB

I think its possible to hook the bigpond wireless modems up to a bigger antenna (correct me if im wrong), you could always give that a shot. I can understand where you are coming from with the customer service thing too... and the annoying thing is that the person on the other line assures you that its being looked after...

Oh and rob made an interesting point that every generation has its problems...interesting!

packetstorm writes...

then discontinue the service, it's your choice to continue to maintain it.

But no doubt the OP is on contract. As I understand it, a contract to supply a service usually places obligations on the supplier. To discontinue the service would incur cancellation fees. Why should the consumer be penalised for cancelling a contract because the supplier can't provide the service?

toony writes...

because the supplier can't provide the service?

they can and will once the issue is fixed , in the meantime the op can ask for compensation for downtime

TORB writes...

but remember the Federal Government mandated that broadband was an essential service

Sorry but your incorrect. Broadband is not an essential service.

NSW http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+41+1988+FIRST+0+N#pt.1-sec.4

Here is the link to the announcement made by Coonan. Nothing within details any move to declare broadband as an essential service.

http://www.minister.dcita.gov.au/coonan/media/media_releases/connect_australia_-_a_plan_to_future_proof_telecommunications

canon1d writes...

Sorry but your incorrect. Broadband is not an essential service.

NSW http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+41+1988+FIRST+0+N#pt.1-sec.4

While I agree with you, State legislation is hardly going to include an area that is Commonwealth responsibility. It would be pointless.

toony writes...

State legislation is hardly going to include an area that is Commonwealth responsibility.

As far as I been able to determine there is only state based essential services legislation. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

canon1d writes...

As far as I been able to determine there is only state based essential services legislation.

I think you're right but the point is, citing State Essential Services legislation that doesn't include broadband means nothing as the states have no responsibility for "telecommunications".

packetstorm writes...

see above. stuff breaks. instant fixes aren't a realistic expectation, especially where wireless services are concerned.

Is your name Sol by chance?

mildew writes...

Is your name Sol by chance?

Close – Telstra employee.

OP – If you aren't happy with the way things are being handled by your Bigpond contact person then escalate again to the TIO. If you feel Bigpond are doing a good job handling your complaint, don't.

TORB writes...

I'm paying the privilege of spending $230 for 6GB (although I will be changing to a new plan and ditching one of my accounts.)
Why are you paying $230 for the service? The 10GB plans are only $139.95. Even before the new plans came into effect it wasn't that expensive.

expected fix date, assuming there is one.
Sometimes there is no fix date, assuming the issue it could take awhile to fix. It's better to be honest and say they don't know an ETA than lying to you and giving you a date.

made an offer of goodwill
Well, once the service is restored, call BigPond Billing and ask for a rebate on the downtime, they should happily credit you for the days/weeks your service has been unavailable.

Thanks to all those that have responded. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I was out of touch all day.

-Juzman- writes...

Why are you paying $230 for the service? The 10GB plans are only $139.95. Even before the new plans came into effect it wasn't that expensive.

The answer to that was in the first post. Because I use more than 3GB, I have two plans.

made an offer of goodwill
Well, once the service is restored, call BigPond Billing and ask for a rebate on the downtime, they should happily credit you for the days/weeks your service has been unavailable.

That's not an offer of goodwill; that refund for being unable to provide the service, for which payment has already been made.

The points that Rob111 made are good but I don't completely agree with his analogy. When the first phones and lines were installed, they were completely new technology. Digital broadband technology has been around for awhile now, and for want of a better way of describing it, NextG is more like the next step, or an evolutionary process, rather than a brand new revolutionary technology. I hope you get the drift of what I am trying to express.

(Its also interesting to note that when you sometimes ask people to back up their statements, they suddenly go quiet, but that's another story.)

Finally, the fact of the matter is, that in my not so humble opinion, its unacceptable to sell a service and not be able to deliver for a protracted period of time without the consumer having any recourse. That simply means that the provider can take as long as they like to fix the problem, and the customer just has to put up with it. What other commercial industry has the same rights? Can anyone please name any, or even one?

TORB writes...

What other commercial industry has the same rights? Can anyone please name any, or even one?

The building industry. Ever tried to get a developer to address all the issues you find after you move in to anew dwelling?

canon1d writes...

The building industry. Ever tried to get a developer to address all the issues you find after you move in to anew dwelling?

Whilst I don't disagree with your comments about getting builders to rectify faults, and lets face it, they have a bad reputation in this regard, they are covered by the Trade Practices Act. Action can be taken to get them to rectify the faults and/or recover costs through Fair Trading.

canon1d writes...

The building industry.

Ever tried to get a developer to address all the issues you find after you move in to anew dwelling?

Firstly, if you use a reputable builder, who values his reputation, you should have few "issues" and if you do they will be quickly rectified. I have built (only) two dwellings but on each occasion I used a reputable builder, could count the faults in each on one hand and had no trouble getting the minor issues rectified quickly. It is those who masquerade as reputable and hide behind an image that cause the problems. There's a message there in this current debate.

This saga continues and I am getting bloody frustrated!

It has now been a full month since I first reported this problem and started suffering massive wireless connection problems. The system has dropped out about 30 times already today and its normally worse in the late afternoon. Speed is often down to 15BK/s, which is worse than substandard dial up.

I wasted about another 40 minutes on the phone to tech support yesterday to be finally told that the base station requires some sort of upgrade, but there is no estimated time frame for completion.

I tried to get through to Customer Relations a few time yesterday and again today but after waiting an inordinate amount of time hanging on to speak to a person this afternoon, I gave up. I guess Customer Relations, who deal with complaints that have been to the TIO, are snowed under with work. That say a lot too! (When I have contacted them in the past, their number has always been answered very promptly.)

The TIO told me they would be happy to investigate, but "due to the backlog of work, it will take 6-8 weeks before they can start looking at it."

Given that the providers fund the TIO, I guess they are happy that it takes so long, as by the time anything gets investigated, it is likely that no matter how bad the problem, it has probably gone away. Even Tesltra/BP can usually fix something within 2 – 3 months.

I am so glad I am paying for a premium service, I would hate to think what it would be like if I wasn't. Two tin cans and a bit of string, or possibly smoke signals on the top of the local mountain next to the tower.

Telstra needs to stop thinking their poops don't smell repulsive and start giving customers decent customer service, at more competitive prices. I heard old mate Optus has cheaper wireless and it's just as good, if not better. I'm sick of Telstra trying to monopolise the industry, if the other carriers didn't exist they would charge whatever they wanted. So yay for Optus and the rest.

Infallible_God writes...

I'm sick of Telstra trying to monopolise the industr

in the op's situation, which is what this thread is based on , how is it a monopoly when others dont want to participate?

So yay for Optus and the rest

tell the op that who is unable to get anyone else but telstra, good job nancy drew

Infallible_God writes...

Telstra needs to stop thinking their poops don't smell repulsive and start giving customers decent customer service, at more competitive prices. I heard old mate Optus has cheaper wireless and it's just as good, if not better. I'm sick of Telstra trying to monopolise the industry, if the other carriers didn't exist they would charge whatever they wanted. So yay for Optus and the rest.

Rediculous! Did u actually read the thread before posting??!!

drahcir writes...

in the op's situation, which is what this thread is based on , how is it a monopoly when others dont want to participate?

because the public have oversimplified their concept of "competition" to mean that there will be a choice of suppliers. this is far from the case. "competition" simply means that there are no regulatory impediments to competing suppliers entering the industry. this is not a guarantee that this will occur.

while this may result in a sole-supplier situation, that's no reason to penalise that supplier for the failure of other companies to compete effectively. competition is about removing impediments, but doesn't guarantee choice.

Late yesterday afternoon I had a brainwave, which is always more productive than a brain fart. :) I really wanted to talk to "someone" from Telstra who could actually do something or could tell me what is really going on, so I thought about Telstra Countrywide and checked their website.

According to this page, http://www.telstra.com.au/countrywide/presence_plan.htm "local managers are responsible for overall sales and service performance in their regions, and senior executive responsibility for the delivery of services and products, and advocating customers’ interests at the highest levels within the company."

Beaudy mate! Just wot the docta ordered! So I looked up my regional information and there was a picture of the Area General Manager (Pat) and his phone number. I called it and surprise, surprise, instead of getting some flunky, Pat answered the phone himself. Very helpful fellow. As luck would have it, his head Technical Services Manager (Mick) was standing next to him when I rang and Mick took over the call. Mick knew nothing about the problem in my area!!!! He made a phone call whilst I was waited and got the good oil from one his blokes.

Mick gave me a bit of a different story to the last one I had from Tec Support. There is a problem on the tower but it is intermittent and they don't know exactly why yet, so the cause of the problem has not been identified, as I had been told previously. It also is not area wide and only occurs in some spots. The Ericsson technicians are still trying to figure out what goes on.

Mick said he would ring me back today to make an appointment to come and see me tomorrow (Friday) whilst he is in the area checking out the problem.

Whilst there is no solution and I still have crappy service, at least I know that someone is actually now trying to do something to hurry it along.

Full marks to Telstra Countrywide Management in the Illawarra Region for giving a damn and actually trying to help.

drahcir writes...

they can and will once the issue is fixed , in the meantime the op can ask for compensation for downtime

I love this kind of mentality. It suits Telstra to the bone. Tell the customer to shutup, heres a few months free and go away.

I think the point of this thread was not whether the OP has a technical problem that Telstra should be jumping too, I think his or her expectation was not whether or not it would get fixed immediately – just that someone would give him an update or attempt to help.

Having worked for Telstra, and dealing with wireless support, let me tell you nobody cares. Its easy to calm a most customers with a few months free, and thats what team leaders will do...

Escalations to infrastructure take weeks, the investigation is finally done and words like 'Area is terrain challenged, always has been always will be' – Verbatim, from a 3rd level tech. Oh and he was looking in the wrong place....

ripvankip writes...

'Area is terrain challenged, always has been always will be' – Verbatim, from a 3rd level tech.

what would you suggest the tech do – have a hill moved? if there's terrain blocking signal I don't see what they are expected to acheive.

Oh and he was looking in the wrong place....

... that doesn't help my argument though! :)

ripvankip writes...

I think his or her expectation was not whether or not it would get fixed immediately – just that someone would give him an update or attempt to help.

so they told the op that they know theres a problem and they are in the process of fixing it, i dont see the issue, oh the update ok well so they give a bogus fix date it doesnt happen then the op is back here again starting another thread

Having worked for Telstra, and dealing with wireless support, let me tell you nobody cares

how much did you care? seeing how you said nobody i take it you didnt care either and was a part of the problem

Tell the customer to shutup, heres a few months free and go away.

at least they will give some kind of compensation which although not the solution the op or anyone would prefer is still something

wonder what mightymouse got for their issues recently?

TORB writes...

Full marks to Telstra Countrywide Management in the Illawarra Region for giving a damn and actually trying to help.

+1 to that. The TCW people live in your area, and in my experience are generally more helpful and sympathetic to any issues you have than those in capital cities/Mumbai/....

ripvankip writes...

I think the point of this thread was not whether the OP has a technical problem that Telstra should be jumping too, I think his or her expectation was not whether or not it would get fixed immediately – just that someone would give him an update or attempt to help.

I would have liked it to be fixed long ago but do understand that things can go wrong and sometimes take awhile to fix. What got me was the attitude of Telstra which I summed up in the title, "Telstra does not give a damn." THEY have a problem which is causing me a great deal of difficulty and yet its up to me to keep chasing them to find out what's going on. The complaint has been to the TIO and had been escalated to the Customer Relations people. Even that department keeps fobbing me off and wants me to wast my time getting updates.

According to the BigPond/Telstra complaints procedure, the person in Customer Relations who manages the complaint is meant to keep me informed, not tell me to ring tec support for updates. So the very people who are meant to be looking after complaints don't even do what is publicly stated as procedure/policy.

packetstorm writes...

if there's terrain blocking signal I don't see what they are expected to acheive.

As stated above, its not the case this time as I have line of site to the tower on top of Mt Gibraltar.

drahcir writes...

so they told the op that they know theres a problem and they are in the process of fixing it, i dont see the issue, oh the update ok well so they give a bogus fix date

Flabbergasted! Simply flabbergasted. There are none so blind as those that don't open their own eyes to see. That is exactly why you don't see the issue.

If you can't see the issue there is absolutely no point in trying to explain it. Unfortunately a lot of people who work in Telstra/BigPond have the same myopic view of the "mug customers" who are paying their salaries.

In that comment "I don't see the issue" you have just summed up a major part of what is wrong with Telstra/Bigpond. Well done. ;)

canon1d writes...

The building industry. Ever tried to get a developer to address all the issues you find after you move in to a new dwelling?

Developers – don't get me started, I use to work for Telstra and when I heard about or saw ( too late ) the start of a new project I would ask them have they spoken to Telstra – 90% hadn't.

Classic one happening now huge project on the Gold Coast – no ports on the D-Slam , some of these apartments are over $1,000,000.00 and a friend was offered a pair gain line ...

To the OP:

I've seen recently that Internode are offering Naked DSL, and because it's naked they've reported getting out to 7.5kms so far.

If you're 8kms from the exchange (or with any luck a little under) there may be a slight possibility that you can get Naked ADSL through Internode.

It's a long shot, but I just thought I'd let you know if you want to try!

Good luck!

Adam.

drahcir writes...

oh the update ok well so they give a bogus fix date

How about a system that flags users with problems and gives them an update as they become avaliable? For myself, I know my frustration would be lowered if I was kept informed. Again, a point the OP has made a few times now....

how much did you care?

Not to sound too self righteous, but I did care – and I can say that I did want to see most of my customers connected and using the internet.

part of the problem

At least you admit there is a problem. Again, like in any organisation it stems from the head – Telstra is a cut-throat company and a cut-throat place to work. Shame, it really could be the opposite.

-Adza- writes...

It's a long shot, but I just thought I'd let you know if you want to try!

It is a long shot given the closest Agile DSLAM equipped exchange would be more than a 100km from the OP.

but I did care

oh i read you saying nobody cared, so you were the only one?

At least you admit there is a prob

how would i know i dont work there

Telstra is a cut-throat company and a cut-throat place to work

cant stand the heat.......

I know my frustration would be lowered if I was kept informed

if i could find it i would post it, but nearly 2yrs ago i had an issue, i started a thread, the bigpond rep whimmed me, etc etc

i got a call within 24 hours to discuss the issue then one the next day to let me know what was happening

2 days later i come home to find a tech sitting out front waiting for me so he could come inside to check my connection

next day got a call to make sure all was ok

i'd say they do do what you are asking for, in my experience

we can only take the op's word as it is, of course when you are wanting something or have some issue the focus is on the negative

for all we know there could be some people working hard behind the scenes to help the op

but it would be too much to ask for such blind faith in here, its alway easier to assume the worse

drahcir writes...

oh i read you saying nobody cared, so you were the only one?

The problem is, there are people that do care but are ultimately driven down by the fact that upper management don't. Again, happens in a lot of organisations, its infectious. Especially when you know customer satisfaction is way down the list – Tesltras cash cow is signing customers on and locking them into contracts. The return on investment for keeping customer looks to be a lot less than locking them in. Hence the low focus on support.

But, Being this a forum, these are just my opinions!

how would i know i dont work there

OK

cant stand the heat.......

Redundancy.

drahcir writes...

we can only take the op's word as it is, of course when you are wanting something or have some issue the focus is on the negative

for all we know there could be some people working hard behind the scenes to help the op

but it would be too much to ask for such blind faith in here, its alway easier to assume the worse

I wish I had your positive experiences, but unfortunately in the last three years I have had three sets of negative experiences. In the first case, it was so bad that Telstra rebated me for well over $2,000 and they don't do that unless its a royal screw up. And it was not just one screw up; there were about 20 of them! And that's a fact you can take to the bank. In the second case, I can't tell you the compensation amount as I had to sign a confidentiality agreement, but once again, they don't do that unless you have got them bang to rights and can prove it. The guy who was handling my case was amazed at the documentation and when it was investigated, and it was, there was not one point he could disagree with in my documentation. And this case is the third (and the second in the last six months.) (I am a business customer that has multiple services, lines and internet connections with Telstra/BP.)

So as far as my experience is concerned, Telstra has "form" for screwing up badly and not promising what they deliver. And from my perspective, as time goes by it seems to get worse.

I can't imagine there is anyone "working hard behind the scenes" when this has been going for over a month and the head tech guy in the area didn't know about it till I got through to him yesterday.

So, whilst I would love to concentrate on the positive rather than the negative, but its hard to do when there is so little positive from BP. However, I did post the positive news about Countrywide, so I guess that shows some balance. If I was just out to slam them, rather than posting the factual experiences, I would not have posted the Countrywide good news.

drahcir writes...

if i could find it i would post it, but nearly 2yrs ago i had an issue,

Was this before or after the extensive staff reductions? But then, they've had a number of such events. I work in the development industry in a regional area and you are hard pushed to find any local staff to assist with any enquiry.

i'd say they do do what you are asking for, in my experience

I refer you back to my Telstra "motto".

/forum-replies.cfm?t=1039638#r4

"We do it this way because this is the way we do it" sums up the attitude that pervades the organisation in my experience.

I do agree with TORB that TCW do try to be helpful. Sometimes I think they run in to the same brick walls as Joe Average though.

Too good to be true?

Well, Thursday came and went and Mick from TCW did not ring as he had said he would; I had hoped he had copied my number down incorrectly or something and that he would show up on Friday afternoon as he indicted.

So, once again Telstra staff fails to deliver on its commitments.

TORB writes...

I am a business customer that has multiple services, lines and internet connections with Telstra/BP

get this then

http://www.telstrabusiness.com/business/portal/online/site/productsservices/mobilebroadbandlaptopdevices.19511

Ummm Yin, if you are in the city then you can get whatever connections you like. However, once you are in a remote or regional area – forget it.

drahcir writes...

but it would be too much to ask for such blind faith in here, its alway easier to assume the worse

No drahcir – its called experience. Once bitten, ok its a foul-up, Twice bitten – carbon based error, Thrice bitten – its typical telstra.

-Yin- writes...

get this then

http://www.telstrabusiness.com/business/portal/online/site/productsservices/mobilebroadbandlaptopdevices.19511

Yin,

The problem is that it still uses the same tower/infrastructure so I will still encounter the same issues.

The sad thing here is that if its infrastructure based then it should be affecting more then just the OP. Telstra/Bigpond should be running a proper OMS (Outage Management System). Which should have flagged this issue. Then report a generic outage/performance issue statement for customers ringing in, with estimates of restoration time. Message should be upgraded later once more technical information is known. A good OMS will follow the fault from the first logging of the support call right through to the solution.
Though maybe they do have this process? and staff are just inadequately trained, don't care?

The reporting of outage/performance issues is often just as important to the customer as the final solution and this should not be forgotten.
I'm sorry it really does sound like they didn't care in this case
Does sound super poor customer service on Telstra/Bigpond's part.

drahcir writes...

2 days later i come home to find a tech sitting out front waiting for me so he could come inside to check my connection

He musn't of had much else to do that day.

I'm thinking that given that this situation has been going on for months that the Local Member (federal) and the Telecommunications Ombudsman would be worth calling – it might be a case of the squeaky wheel gets the oil!

flubber writes...

He musn't of had much else to do that day.

i was his last job, regardless it was good that he did wait

fonstimp writes...

I work 4 bigpond, and i will

i call BS

TORB writes...

The answer to that was in the first post. Because I use more than 3GB, I have two plans.

I re-read the first post. You have two 3GB plans, which are $89.95ea. which is a total of $179.90 for 6GB. Why not opt for the 10GB plan for $129.95. If you still need two connections, one 10GB and one 3GB which would be $219.90 which would still be cheaper than what your currently paying.

That simply means that the provider can take as long as they like to fix the problem, and the customer just has to put up with it.

Unfortunately sometimes it does take longer to repair the issue. In this case you generally will be credited for the downtime as you stated in your first post. It is unfortunate that these kind of things happen.

fonstimp writes...

when you call you will not speak with anyone who is employed directly by telstra, the people employeed directly deal with fone issues mainly or faults – never bigpond

I think you should get your facts straight here. There a quite a few people employed directly by Telstra that work for BigPond.

Maybe you are outsourced by an Agency, or TeleTech or something like that. But there are CSR's that are Telstra employees, and are employed directly by Telstra.

drahcir writes...

i call BS

+1

I don't believe he works for BigPond at all.

fonstimp writes...

bigpond pay their customer service(on the phone)employees very low wages,the employees response to this is to do as little as possible in return...believe me I see it every day, a customer would call, the rep would tell the customer they are placing them on hold whem in reality they turn to their mates and chit chat for the next 5-10 minutes( usually about how much alcahol they can injest, or who is screwing who to get a promotion)..

eh? putting someone on hold for 10 minutes whilst you chat is a sure fire way to ruin your KPI's and get shown the door.

they bring the customer back off hold, tel them they have fixed the customers issue, and customer ends the call....and what has the rep doen for the customer? bugger all usually, if they did anything ,allot of the time it was not done correctly or the wrong thing was done!

Wow, magical bigpond reps that fix problems that don't actually exist somehow.

this is because management are promoted their for being social types-not performance types........so the people who become the team leaders(managers) are the ones who do the least, but socialise the best! go figure........

aha.ahahahahaha. Seriously, you can't be serious. The companies who do support for bigpond are all outsourced (barring a handful of depts) and especially in customer facing departments the ones who socialise would be lucky to make it to a senior associate, let alone team leader managing 2 dozen staff taking thousands of dollars worth of calls per day. A team leader for a major dept would be covering 20 or 30 (or even 40+ especially in a new team) people, and dealing with monetary volumes in the millions of dollars over an entire year. Not something that people will get promoted to lightly.

the reality is this , bigpond csr's are outsource, when you call you will not speak with anyone who is employed directly by telstra, the people employeed directly deal with fone issues mainly or faults – never bigpond,when you call bigpond, you will only speak with an outsourced person.......

Yeah and? They are outsourced (at least in technical support) to large customer service specialist companies who have skills and worldwide experience in customer handling. Most of these companies would have more experience than Telstra did in direct customer contact centre management.

so to summarise, any time you call bigpond for assistance get ready to be treated like a ping pong ball being bounced from pillar to post, and expect to not have your isssue handled correclty, and if you do speak with a manager-expect the managers there now(most of them) to not know what they are talking about( especially with provisioing issues and cable)

If your issue is complex, then it's going to require a complex issue. Since even most basic tasks that bigpond deal with (ie the main departments, billing/sales/activations/tech support) all require pretty some specialist skills and equipment, then a customer with such an issue will get passed around. That's the nature of a very large scale telco.

nd expect to be fead a line of crap that will not be correct, this is the reality folks,this realy how it is there, and i feel for the customer because they are the ones paying for the mistakes.....

TBH, I'd suggest that you learn to spell properly before anyone else will take you seriously, because what you wrote is a giant load of crap.

Latest update.

I rang TCW and Mick, the head local tech called me back late on Monday afternoon.

He told me that "they found and fixed the problem" over the weekend and it show now be OK. He also told me he would call me on Tuesday and come and and see me to make sure all is well. Sounds good. (I had not used the net much at all over the weekend or on Monday, so I hopped onto the net and gave it a work out. Here are the results:

Monday 8 September
Started about 4 pm.

Very slow then at 4.10 pm dropped out.

Test run on 08/09/2008 @ 04:23 PM

Mirror: Telstra Bigpond
Data: 3 MB
Test Time: 67.12 secs

Your line speed is 365 kbps (0.36 Mbps).
Your download speed is 46 KB/s (0.04 MB/s).

Took 112 seconds to load http://www.bigpondmovies.com/
Took 57 seconds to load http://www.torbwine.com:2082/frontend/x/index.html (normally less than 4 seconds)
Then got slower and slower until 10% of Speed Test took 3 minutes, and then data stopped at 4.51 pm.
Logged back on again and data stopped at 4.54.
Logged back on again and data stopped at 5.01 pm.
Logged back on again and data stopped at 5.22 pm.

Left it at 6.00 pm by 6.22 pm data had stopped. Logged back on.
Test run on 08/09/2008 @ 06:26 PM

Mirror: Telstra Bigpond
Data: 3 MB
Test Time: 197.94 secs

Your line speed is 124 kbps (0.12 Mbps).
Your download speed is 15 KB/s (0.02 MB/s).

Intentionally disconnected. Logged back on again and data stopped at 6.37 pm.
Logged back on again and data stopped at 6.51 pm.

Logged back on again and data stopped at 7.11 pm. Data flow restored many minutes later.

If that's "fixed" I would hate to see a "broken" wireless situation.

Tuesday's Update

Mick arrived as promised and took a whole lot of readings and measurements. Plugged in a small antenna and whilst it speed thing up a bit, he has the same problems on his laptop as I was having on my desktop. (We were running the computers side by side for part of the tests.)

He tested his on BP as well Telstra and had the same results. Good date flow to start, then after a few minutes slowed down and then no data flow at all, despite having a very strong signal.

"I have never seen this before" was all he could say. He then made a few phone calls and sent an email to another tech and Mick said he would get back to me. He also stated that there had been no other complaints, and both the local council and Telstra techs use the wireless network extensively in this area. The council apparently screams loudly with any Telstra wireless problems.

At least he has seen it for himself and they genuinely look like they are trying to figure it out.

MackTheKnife writes...

all require pretty some specialist skills and equipment, then a customer with such an issue will get passed around

then explain to me why it took me well over 5 hrs on the phone to a "so-called technical person/s" on one day, let alone the many, many hours before that to get connected to the broadband, admittedly using a non-Telstra modem. Any half-baked "specialist" should have been able to sort the problem out in much less time than that. In sheer desperation I called a techo out and in less than ½ hr he had me connected.

Still steaming

z

wah wah.

Don't use non-bigpond modems then. Calling a tech out and having them fix the problem suggests an issue on your end, not something that can be solved by Bigpond.

TORB, there are other options.

Have you looked at satellite with a service provider that uses the IPStar satellite network? (eg Westnet, Activate me comes to mind). They are very reliable, and quick, and the ABG pays for installation.

So there are other options, if Next G does not work properly for you. Obviously Next G is faster than satellite, but if you cant get it properly, satellite is an option.

You are indeed one really patient person... :)

I'm with you TORB and enjoying the journey much more than you obviously are. Loving your style and can't wait for your next installment. Following your story with opponents such as packetstorm is more entertaining than watching Gordon Ramsay, probably due to a more balanced duel. I'm hoping that Telstra finally delivers the goods sooner rather than later and there is a happy ending, but in the meantime I'm getting some real belly-laughs out of you guys. A different story if it was happening to me I'm sure.

topher1976 writes...

Have you looked at satellite with a service provider that uses the IPStar satellite network? (eg Westnet, Activate me comes to mind). They are very reliable, and quick, and the ABG pays for installation.

Topher,

I had the BP satellite service for many years and was very happy with it, however the Federal Govt subsidy runs out in November. When my modem died BP offered me a deal to move to Wireless. (12 month plan – first 3 months free and a free modem.) One way satellite will be virtually dead in November.

fauxfur,

Thanks for the comments. As I have undergone Telstra/BP dramas in the past, I know there is no gain in getting bitter and twisted and it is necessary to do a few things.

Firstly, document everything. Secondly, keep on them otherwise nothing will be done. That means contacting the TIO and repeated phone calls to the case manager. They have to understand that you will not go away quietly – the squeaky wheel syndrome.

Don't get mad. You know it will be a frustrating, long drawn out process. Get even. That's why you keep everything documented as when it comes to them offering you a months free service, deluge them with the documentation of events and ask them if one month is fair and if they would be happy with it. Save you "powder" for the negotiations and that's when you get heavy.

That may sound cynical, but lets face it, if they didn't screw up and take forever to fix problems, it would be unnecessary.

(If you like the style of writing and enjoy a bottle of red "plonk" – have a look at my Tour Diaries. http://torbwine.com/home.shtml )

Yin,

The problem is that it still uses the same tower/infrastructure so I will still encounter the same issues.

Yes but their turn around time is within 24hrs.

Thursday's Update.

I just spoke to Mick the head tech from TCW in my region. When he went to other spots in the area, he had the same issues he had at my place, so its not just my location.

Mick told me that "it is being worked on by the highest levels within Telstra and Ericsson. Its a complex issue and they don't know how long it will take to fix."

Five and a half weeks now......

From my perspective, if someone/organisation can't diagnose and work out a fix for a technical problem within that time frame, either they are not trying very hard, are not competent, or have released equipment without sufficient backup and resources.

Yin,

In this case a 24 hour turnaround would not matter. They don't know how to fix it. Also, I have had more than 24 hours go by from Telstra Business without a resolution on a number of occasions.

Zahira1 writes...

admittedly using a non-Telstra modem.

You do realise BigPond only support their products?

I called a techo out and in less than ½ hr he had me connected.

So the issue was with your end, not BigPond's.

bigpond has great support i was never put on hold unless it was because they were entering my details into something/updateing was only for 1-2min

they even tell you that if you do not have a modem from telstra there may not beable to give you much support

TPG charge you before you even get your service

internode leave you on hold for hours

bigpond has the best customer service ive seen and they know what they are talking about even the sales girl i spoke with new all the terms and gave me alot of usefull information not just a defalt reply i remember from internode the first thing they would tell you is to turn your modem off and on real usefull

itsDaish writes...

not just a defalt reply i remember from internode the first thing they would tell you is to turn your modem off and on real usefull

And in many, many cases this fixes the issue. I can't recall the number of times I have attended a premises, only to restart their router and have everything working immediately, and if you think I give them a discount on my hourly rate because it only took me 5 minutes you are thinking wrong.

The default questions are there for a reason.

Have you restarted your modem/router.
Have you checked the power cords to make sure it is pluged in and turned on.

All useful suggestions that sometimes save a lot of time and trouble.

they even tell you that if you do not have a modem from telstra there may not beable to give you much support

Whereas as other ISP's will attempt to support just about anything you have plugged in, where do BP get better marks here?

TPG charge you before you even get your service

Well there are issues with other ISP's, just a few problems shouldn't be taken as an example to blacken all ISP's other than BP.

Steve the (original) name pirate

"may not" being key here not will not

as for internode they do not want to hear anything you have to say and want you to turn your modem off and on or pc then put you on hold for a hour when they come back onto the line they ask you to do it again but this time leave it off for 30min and ring back if there is still a problem that is bad support in my book i just put up with the problem they never fixed untill i canceld my account

i just do not see how anyone could call bigpond support bad its the best ive had

I've called a few different ISP tech support areas over the years and they all have their problems. With BigPond I think a lot of the problem is unfortunately some of the people. BYO modems are supposed to be supported, albeit more limited than BigPond modems, by standard ADSL support. By limited I mean they won't set up wireless routers.

The actual limits are that:

Full Support for Bigpond Modems.

Limited Support for non-Bigpond. How limited depends on if the modem is our list where we have a picture and description of the lights.

If you have a modem listed:
You can get support for a line sync issue if modem lights show that.
An authentication by confirming your username and password are in the modem along with networking/connection to modem being correct fine according to the modem maker or technician.
Confirmation of the correct username and reset password. Refer to modem maker to put it into the modem.

Anything not on the list is generally a crapshoot depending on how knowledgeable the rep is and if the tests show anything obvious, and alot of the time the only support you will get is if tests show a clear issue with either line sync or username/password. Anything else is a "confirm username password and refer to modem maker".

I've dealt with TPG, Exetel and Internode as a full service owner, and Bigpond as the "guy who knows about the interwebz". Internode sucked because of huge hold/wait times. Exetel support was basicall