Whirlpool

i buy data blocks when i need them.. and your sales/profits from them probably look pretty rosey on paper.. but when i buy them i get the 'im getting ripped off' feeling. like buying beer by the 6 pack instead of carton. it doesnt inspire a lot of loyalty in that respect.

i cant afford (well, justify) going on a 40gb or 80gb plan all the time, just in case i use a lot of data one month. previously i could just change plan for the month – the flexibility was a very cool feature of internode. now i feel constrained on a cheaper plan, as the only option is data blocks, which long term are not much of an option.

i cant believe instantly changing plans is not profitable, the unprofitable plans would get the chop. it was all automatic with negligible admin cost, so the only reason i can see for being locked into plans and having to buy data blocks is that it is more profitable, however at the expense of customer satisfaction (and therefore longer term profits) IMO.

just some feedback.

I agree data block pricing is ridicules and removing the instant plan change option was just a shameless money grab by Internode.

The problem is, allowing people to change plans on the fly isn't profitable either. Internode (and all ISPs) assume that most people aren't going to use their full download limit, and they charge this way. Obviously, they make more money on people on a 20GB plan who use 10GB than those on the same plan who use the full 20GB. They oversell their plans. If everyone used their full download limit every month, the only result would be plan prices increasing to cover the increased costs (Internode only plays for what is used, not what would be used if everyone maxxed their cap). If anyone could change what plan they were going to use based on their usage that month, this extra revenue is lost.

In the same way, if we were charged a fixed rate per GB of actual usage, instead of having a fixed download limit the costs would be closer to that of the data blocks than current pricing.

I agree that the data blocks are overpriced, but it is done to cover the fact that you're already making them less money than the average customer (and, though I don't know the figures, perhaps losing them money).

Yeah, a bit pricey. 2Gig for $5 would be more reasonable.

You may not want to pay the price of the data blocks (and frankly I'd rather not myself), but it has been mentioned inumerous times that they reflect the true cost of providing that excess data.

When you have Exetel excess data at $3/GB and aaNet at $4/GB, and excess for other ISP plans exceeding $100/GB, the Internode purchased datablocks option doesn't appear to be falling behind par with competition.

We had it good with the instant upgrade, for all its flaws with the confusing billing displays that came with it. That doesn't mean the datablocks option is a money grab for Internode.

Batiu-Drami writes...

and, though I don't know the figured, perhaps losing them money

Simon seems a pretty switched on person, so I think running a service at a loss wouldn't be his cup of tea. Profit maximising :)

Yep, not a big fan of data blocks...bring back instant plan change.

HB Pencil writes...
Yep, not a big fan of data blocks...bring back instant plan change.

this

If you don't like data block pricing, increase your plan and stick to it.

I don't see where the problem comes ?

Fact is data block pricing is reasonable.

127.O.O.1 writes...

Fact is data block pricing is reasonable.

Agreed. Going over your limit means just that, and you get punished for it by shaping.

Personally, I think $5 for 1GB is fair enough! At school I have to pay $30 ever 2 months and I get 300MB. That is unreasonable.

I think their pricing strategy is good... basically, you need to buy the $15 worth or your getting crappy value! and the difference between 2gb and 5gb is $5... alllllwayyys worth going up! :P

reeb writes...

i cant afford (well, justify) going on a 40gb or 80gb plan all the time, just in case i use a lot of data one month. previously i could just change plan for the month – the flexibility was a very cool feature of internode. now i feel constrained on a cheaper plan, as the only option is data blocks, which long term are not much of an option.

So let's get this right. You're going over your limit on a regular basis but you can't justify moving to a higher plan? Yet you complain that Internode offers an option for those who want more data but think it's too expensive?

1GB for $5 reflects the true cost of the excess data to Internode. You could go to Bigpond where they charge $150 per 1GB excess on the non shaped plans.

Many ISP's charge reasonable excess rates of around $5 per 1GB, so Internode is hardly ripping anyone off.

I believe they took out the changing plans because of the issues it was placing on their account system as well as taking up resources such as staff time. It was also a bit of a rort on the customer side and some people were abusing it by changing constantly to get a better deal.

Internode is a business, it's there to make money and keep it's running costs and processes as simple as possible. If you think you can do a better job start up your own ISP and see how you go, many have come and gone over the years but Node is still here so they must be doing something right.

Internode's reasoning aside, I too much preferred the old system where I could upgrade my plan mid month.

I'm usually on a 20-25gb / month plan and usually only use about 15gb of that, but some times I have a reason to use in the vicinity of 30gb or so and I used to do the instant upgrade once or twice a year. I've never purchased data blocks to my knowledge. They're just a crappy idea.

Carl B writes...

It was also a bit of a rort on the customer side and some people were abusing it by changing constantly to get a better deal.

if someone constantly upgraded from say a 25 to 40 every month then wouldnt it be just the same as if they were on the 40 to start with? no really abuse then? just a thought.
I suspect its more about planning.

Batiu-Drami writes...

Internode (and all ISPs) assume that most people aren't going to use their full download limit, and they charge this way.

I thought the big pricing uproar last year was all about Internode fixing this. I'm sure I recall people saying that the new pricing reflected users paying for what they were getting.

Nevertheless, data block pricing doesnt bother me, especially with my extra 15gb this month! :D

I've never had the need to purchase data blocks but as I've just about exhausted my current quota of 5 gig and not wanting my wife to be left with shaping when I head back out to work, I topped up today.

It'll be the first and last time though. Have upgraded my plan to suit our needs better.

casual-matt writes...

Nevertheless, data block pricing doesnt bother me, especially with my extra 15gb this month! :D

I did the same this month.

The only problem I have with data blocks is how easy they are to use. LOL. I find them particularly useful during school holidays, but do find I download a lot of stuff I really don't need simply because they are there if I want them.

Batiu-Drami writes...

The problem is, allowing people to change plans on the fly isn't profitable either. Internode (and all ISPs) assume that most people aren't going to use their full download limit, and they charge this way.

ive seen that before but i dont really buy it. if me being on 25gb and changing to 40gb is unprofitable, then the 40gb plan must be unprofitable in the first place.

previously by changing plans (25->40gb), the company would have got $15 out of me and i got an extra 15gb. now with data blocks for that $15 i get 5gb. i would bet both models are profitable, but clearly one is more profitable than the other.

which is the more realistic price of data, $1 per gig or $3 per gig? i dont really know for sure but i'm proposing $1 is closer to it (especially when its just a topup and all the fixed costs like exchange port etc. have been covered)

.

Lord Humungus writes...

Have upgraded my plan to suit our needs better.

and thats precisely what i want to do, just with a bit more flexibility (on demand) – like we used to be able to.

Carl B writes...

So let's get this right. You're going over your limit on a regular basis but you can't justify moving to a higher plan? Yet you complain that Internode offers an option for those who want more data but think it's too expensive?

id like to have the default as the 25gb plan. if i want to, go to the 40gb plan, and revert back to normal before the next rollover. it used to be that simple.

1GB for $5 reflects the true cost of the excess data to Internode.

i just dont understand that. at that cost, with all the other costs in offering me a service (exchange etc), they would probably only just scrape by if i used 5gb per month and probably lose money if i used 10gb.

You could go to Bigpond where they charge $150 per 1GB excess on the non shaped plans.

and that is nothing but a blatant ripoff for people who dont know better, we all know that

reeb writes...

just some feedback.

Could always join Bigpond and use their "flexible" $150 per gb if you wish to.
;).

But data block prices may go down eventually or choose a plan that really suits your usage needs.
$3-$6 seems to be the norm of extra charges for extra gig's of data really.

dont get me wrong:

• internode are an awesome ISP in every other respect.
• ive been with them for 5 years and havent once bothered to check the competitions pricing.
• i recognise and appreciate VALUE FOR MONEY (not the cheapest price on paper).
• datablocks instead of instant plan changes are a big step backwards and aren't value for money, in my opinion.

ive made my point – i dont want to slag internode off, im just explaining how i feel as a customer about this aspect of the service :)

Ted Bullpitt writes...

Could always join Bigpond and use their "flexible" $150 per gb if you wish to.
;).

sure and ill sell my car and catch taxis everywhere, eh? :)

While instant plan changes were great (I used that feature on a number of occasions), I believe part of the reason that the change was made to data blocks and scheduled plan changes only is that it's much easier to plan and scope the network.

It's harder to provision when people change plans up and down on a regular basis, but if plans remain static and people purchase data blocks to top up on occasion, then it's much easier to baseline the regular plan requirements and the averages/trends of data block consumption and therefore your provisioning becomes simpler and more accurate.

This results in less wasted money on overprovisioning where it's not required, and more consistent levels of service by reducing inadvertent underprovisioning.

Ultimately, the higher level of flexibility for the customers resulted in a more difficult and costly job for Internode to make sure the network was planned well and upgraded as needed.

reeb writes...

datablocks instead of instant plan changes are a big step backwards and aren't value for money, in my opinion.

Used as a once-off they probably appeal to some users/customers who don't want to upgrade to a higher quota plan only to have all that excess gig just sitting there doing nothing for the remainder of their billing cycle.

Everything has its pros and cons.

reeb writes...

and thats precisely what i want to do, just with a bit more flexibility (on demand) – like we used to be able to.

The thing is, fast-upgrade resulted in every person using the newly upgraded plan to 100% and, potentially, beyond. It was effectively turning every fast-upgrade user into a heavy user for two plans, both the original and the newly selected plan.

The ISP has indicated prior to launch of data-blocks that fast upgrade was distorting costs – and the accounts team were fielding a large number of bill related calls (which in of itself is a 'cost').

It's harder for an ISP to plan usage and load levels when folks can change plans up, at virtually no notice, then flat-line them. The fast-upgrade option was only ever meant to be a stop-gap measure – that it lasted as long as it did is the surprising thing, not that it was withdrawn.

reeb writes...

then the 40gb plan must be unprofitable in the first place.

It's profitable if it's not used to exhaustion. If every single fast-upgrade results in plan exhaustion (those upgrading from, say 20gb to 40gb were using all 40) then you introduce a model that encourages people to flat-line their quota.

If enough people do that, then costs increase > recovered plan fee. So it was either an additional price hike, across the board, or the fast-upgrade had to go. The ISP chose the latter option.

I have said this before, if you don't like the datablock, change plans or manage the amount of your data/downloads!
I cant afford to go up a higher quota so I control what I use on here and go nuts at near end of my month using up the rest of my quota. Not that hard to do...

radd writes...

While instant plan changes were great (I used that feature on a number of occasions), I believe part of the reason that the change was made to data blocks and scheduled plan changes only is that it's much easier to plan and scope the network.

It's harder to provision when people change plans up and down on a regular basis

ok, good point! – thanks

ok guys you have made good points, thanks

i still dont love datablocks and i think they could be a bit cheaper .. but i see there's a bit more to the story so dont feel they are quite so bad now :P

some of us were spoilt by instant upgrades perhaps!

reeb writes...

i still dont love datablocks and i think they could be a bit cheaper

.. they're priced on the basis that they will be used to exhaustion. If you buy lots, then there is a certain 'bulk' discount, however the same basic premise is in play.

Peak load is expensive to provision when there are no offsets like shaping or 'balances' introduced by cross subsidisation. Data-blocks represent cost + small margin for 'on demand' use.

Another thing being if your buying a data block you've just used all your usage on your normal plan, no cross subsidizing – so the extra cost of data block that people seem to think exists maybe to compensate for this.

Simple – Don't like it, don't get shaped!

Put off that "legal" download until your next billing cycle!

Data blocks are good, when your kid via lan gets you shaped, you buy one but dont unshape HIM. lol

I'm a bit confused as to what Internode is doing. I've been on the 8Mbit 25GB plan and last month had to buy a data block as the pesky kids exceeded our limit. No problem with that, I want the extra data I pay for it but I then decided to avoid having to pay higher costs for data blocks that I would go to the 40GB plan (same speed and all) but then find on my bill there is a $15 charge for the change! How can this be when their site clearly says-

There are no once-off charges if your requested plan change involves only a change to your monthly download quota — for example from a 25 GB plan to a 40 GB plan at the same speed. Also there's no charge for changing from a 'High' plan to a 'Plus' plan.

I'm assuming it was an oversight but as yet haven't received any reply from the billing department.

Have they started charging for this? I don't recall being notified of any such change and if they are now charging they should check their own website.

I know I sound like a broken record on this... but the OP's predicament, and, indeed, many other problems raised by ISP reps and customers alike, would be solved with a flat rate plan. That is, $X per GB, no limit. (Or to stop scary bills you could opt in for a "maximum monthly spend"... e.g. $X per GB up to let's say $100 max in a month, after which you do get shaped.)

The question is... what should X in $X per GB reasonably be? By reasonable I mean the ISP still has to make a profit without gouging the customer. I think $4 per GB + fixed monthly port fee is about right.

Big Giant Head writes...

I'm assuming it was an oversight but as yet haven't received any reply from the billing department.

That's just an error from the accounts department. A glitch in the matrix!

If you've contacted them they'll sort it out for you.

Big Giant Head writes...

I'm assuming it was an oversight but as yet haven't received any reply from the billing department.

Have they started charging for this? I don't recall being notified of any such change and if they are now charging they should check their own website.

It will be to do with prepayment of your plan. Everyone pays thier plan a month in advance. If you decide to go up to a higher cost plan then you have to pay for the month coming up ($15) and also the month after($15)...

This is what it says on the bill

Plan Change Upgrade: HOME-Plus-25 to HOME-Plus-40 $15.00
Fee 11/8/2008 to 11/9/2008

Plus it has the new monthly fee to be charged ($99) which already incorporates the increased price.

I have changed plans before and have never had this $15 fee applied.

yeh I was caught with my pants down one month where I used my quote and though I would do a instant plan upgrade, however I didnt know it was removed, and when I saw the data block pricing, I simply stayed put.

I can see why node did this, and yes it has reduced value for customers.. however these changes seems to have resulted in everyone getting a larger quota.. I'm happy with that..

Stan Devia writes...

.....would be solved with a flat rate plan. That is, $X per GB, no limit. (Or to stop scary bills you could opt in for a "maximum monthly spend"... e.g. $X per GB up to let's say $100 max in a month, after which you do get shaped.)

You've probably heard all the arguments against this already.....

The question is... what should X in $X per GB reasonably be? By reasonable I mean the ISP still has to make a profit without gouging the customer. I think $4 per GB + fixed monthly port fee is about right.

Using your numbers, my plan just went for $60 to $100 and that's just data.

You are quoting significantly more words than you have written.
Consider whether you need to quote at all — unless you are quoting to respond to a specific statement, it's usually easier to just mention who you're responding to.
Otherwise, trim the quoted passages down as much as you can.

and the horse this dammed error rode in on.....

Big Giant Head writes...

I have changed plans before and have never had this $15 fee applied.

$15 is the difference between the two plans.

So I suspect something like:

A month back you were billed in advance for this current month:

Home-Plus-25 $84.95 for 11/8/2008 to 11/9/2008

Sometime before the current billing month started you upgraded, you have now been billed the difference between your old plan (which was already invoiced) and the new plan.

Plan Change Upgrade: HOME-Plus-25 to HOME-Plus-40 $15.00
Fee 11/8/2008 to 11/9/2008

You've now also been billed in advance for your next month on the new plan:

HOME-Plus-40 $99.95 for 11/9/2008 to 11/10/2008

Anyway getting OT now.

Big Giant Head writes...

I have changed plans before and have never had this $15 fee applied.

It's not a static $15 fee, it varies depending on which plan you are changing to/from. You would of paid it if you've ever changed up plans before, but perhaps not realised it.

Joseph explained it above.

It isnt a fee. You're just paying for your next month!

I think you'll find that:

your new plan price – old plan price = $15

Batiu-Drami writes...

Internode only plays for what is used, not what would be used if everyone maxxed their cap

NQR... Internode pays nothing for for data... only for bandwidth. So it balances bandwidth available against data flow from users actually using their bytes.

Brendan. writes...

The ISP has indicated prior to launch of data-blocks that fast upgrade was distorting costs – and the accounts team were fielding a large number of bill related calls (which in of itself is a 'cost').

Brendan, for a long time I have wondered exactly how you know so much private knowledge about the inner workings of Internode?

I much preferred the instant upgrade option too, but you really can't expect an ISP to do such thing.

We had it good.

I do think the price should be flat $3 per GB though, and not $5 for the first two gigs ($10)

anyway, I find myself buying alot, some months. I am on the 25GB plan

Stan Devia writes...

The question is... what should X in $X per GB reasonably be? By reasonable I mean the ISP still has to make a profit without gouging the customer. I think $4 per GB + fixed monthly port fee is about right.

Give me the Data Block option and/or a Higher Plan any day :)

$160 for 40Gigs no thanks, get it for under $70? now apx (+$20 for HLB +$10 VoIP). If it was between $1.50 – $2MAX per GB then maybe.

127.O.O.1 writes...

If you don't like data block pricing, increase your plan and stick to it

+1.

If anyone finds that they are using data blocks more than 3-4 times per year, then IMO, they should be looking at changing to a higher data allowance plan.
The idea of data blocks is that they alleviate a temporary shortage of quota where a non regular usage pattern results in going over the plan limit and this is why they are priced at somewhat of a premium.

They are not a long term solution and it is best to have a plan that actually meets your needs. I would prefer to pay a little more on a higher plan than to be continually buying data blocks because it is easier and ultimately less expensive/better value.

As far as the plan change is concerned, I always found it complex WRT to billing and IMO, the data blocks are a great occasional solution with simple pricing.

Izdubar writes...

Brendan, for a long time I have wondered exactly how you know so much private knowledge about the inner workings of Internode?

I read.

When you read what the ISP publishes, comments from Simon, MMC, Mark and so on, rather than ignoring it for fear of somehow being 'tainted', one tends to learn a thing or two. The reasons for the removal of fast-upgrade were actually discussed here, at some length, at the time. Primary reasons were cost and complexity (helpdesk load was non-trivial).

When fast-upgrade was originally introduced, it was intended to be a short-term 'fix' for billing software inflexibility. Pretty sure that was on record as well.

Granted, egotistical trolling has reduced the amount of open chatter coming from the ISP, but they do still talk to us on occasion.

I have no financial, emotional or other 'vested interest' in Internode. I have no shares, don't speak to Simon every other day, nor do I get preferential treatment or 'insider' data in any way, shape or form. I'm simply a broadband user who has had a company earn my respect. That's a rare event where most companies like to refer to me as just-a-number.

Brendan. writes...

I read. OK.

I also liked the instant plan changes and did use it quite a few times. But I do understand why they changed it to the data blocks and the reasons given are fair enough. If you find that you're running out, then perhaps it's time to ease back a bit and start queueing things up.

That's what I do, if I can see my usage is going to far exceed my quota, I queue up my downloads and then bump up the next month's plan to compensate. I then use that month to get my queued stuff then change back to my normal plan. Granted it's not instant, but it has worked good for me, and I haven't needed to purchase data blocks. All you need is a little restraint and to monitor and react to your quota needs.

Brendan. writes...

I'm simply a broadband user who has had a company earn my respect. That's a rare event where most companies like to refer to me as just-a-number.

+1
Wish I had said that :-)

+1
Plus I'm a Whirlpool reader who has allowed a man named Brendan to gain my respect with he's fair & honest comments.

Datablocks are akin to Payday Loans.

They are for people who could not work within their budget and have gone over.

No one likes payday loans either, though people use them for convenience because they have to.

You should never really have to use them in consecutive months, if you do, look for a new plan.

Skippy Da Roo writes...

Datablocks are akin to Payday Loans.

They are for people who could not work within their budget and have gone over.

No one likes payday loans either, though people use them for convenience because they have to.

You should never really have to use them in consecutive months, if you do, look for a new plan.

That's a good analogy. I couldn't have said it better myself :)

Skippy Da Roo writes...

Datablocks are akin to Payday Loans.

I wish they were, then I can say give me 5 extra gigs from my next month quota that I can use now and since I'll be away a bit next month I won't miss it.

HB Pencil writes...

, then I can say give me 5 extra gigs from my next month quota that I can use now and since I'll be away a bit next month I won't miss it.

That's like asking for 5 days from next month because you have run out of days this month ... it just doesn't make sense.

Pre-paid (Quota) <> post-paid (Datablocks)

127.O.O.1 writes...

it just doesn't make sense.

You miss my point... that Payday Loans are nothing akin to Datablocks.

HB Pencil writes...

You miss my point... that Payday Loans are nothing akin to Datablocks.

No, all you did was change the parameters of the analogy. That doesn't make the original analogy incorrect.

HB Pencil writes...

that Payday Loans are nothing akin to Datablocks.

Payday loans are to bank personal loans what datablocks are to upgrading your monthly quota – you get what you're after quickly and easily but at a significant cost compared to the alternative.

well it is good if u got say 3 days left before roll over and simply want to browse net at full speed. being able to put a small chunk of extra data is good. and if im shaped and do the data block purchase during business hours it happens without a hour or 2.

i cant complain

I'll give it one more try, if you guys don't get it, then I'll give up.

Payday loans is like asking your boss for an advance, you pay it back from your next paycheck. Hence my post:

I wish they were, then I can say give me 5 extra gigs from my next month quota that I can use now and since I'll be away a bit next month I won't miss it.

Now if you got a second job (you get extra cash) then that will be akin to Datablocks.

I would like to see a system where by the quota you don't use contributes to your overflow bucket.

The overflow is set at a limit – say 2GB. Your unused quota for a period contributes to this overflow buffer. Once the overflow is full that's it.

Your overflow is used on those periods where you do go over your normal limit.

It only fills back up when you end the period under the limit.

guido writes...

The overflow is set at a limit – say 2GB.

it won't ever be enough. And for some it will be too much. It will cause confusion and distress as people demand their 2gb of flesh for all manner of reasons. A neat Idea, but it could push plan prices up as it encourages everyone to be a heavy user.

HB Pencil writes...

Payday loans is like asking your boss for an advance, you pay it back from your next paycheck.

Incorrect – payday loans are nothing like asking your boss for an advance.

The overflow idea sounds stupid at first but just might be a good idea, even from Internode's perspective. I think a lot of subscribers use all of their data allocation for the month just 'cause they think it is going to waste if they don't use it ALL. If there is some kind of saving capability then it will reduce the insentive for people to use all their quota all the time. Even if say 50% of your unused quota is made available for the next month, that would be a reasonable insentive not to use all your quota just 'cause it's there.

Back OT, I'm sure the data blocks is very profitable for Internode but I don't think you can blame Internode for the price. Look at the competition. Internode is charging at the lower end of the excess usage prices. So the problem is that there isn't sufficient competition. Why on earth would Internode charge $10 for 10 gig when everyone else is charging $30 or more for 10 gig of excess usage. That's just crazy.

Payday loans are for the poor/stupid people who cannot manage their budgets. They go to a place like Cashconverters to get a loan at riduculous interest rates and with ridiculous fees. For a loan just 'till they can pay it back on their next pay day. It really is for morons. Poor people are the last people who should be taking out payday loans.

Mr Bubbles writes...

The overflow idea sounds stupid at first but just might be a good idea, even from Internode's perspective. I think a lot of subscribers use all of their data allocation for the month just 'cause they think it is going to waste if they don't use it ALL

Thats exactly what I do. (Sorry 'node!) lol!

guido writes...

I would like to see a system where by the quota you don't use contributes to your overflow bucket.

Great idea!

Mr Bubbles writes...

Even if say 50% of your unused quota is made available for the next month, that would be a reasonable insentive not to use all your quota just 'cause it's there.

Except that would push the price up. Retail pricing isn't based on what it costs for everyone to consume 100% of their quota every month. It's based on a balance of light versus heavy.

By 'rolling over' (which is what people are asking for, really, even if they word it differently) unused quota, you effectively turn every consumer into a heavy user. It's one of the reasons fast-upgrade was removed – it encouraged heavy consumption.

Haklin writes...

Great idea!

Sounds like it – until you realise it would cost as all a lot more (orders of magnitude). So not such a great idea, after all. :)

The overflow bucket is limited to 1 or 2 GB – nothing more. So if you have not used any of your quota for the month the most you could contribute is 2GB and thats it. The ISP then knows exactly what may be used in the next period.

Most people stay withing their limt. Some times they go slighty over. This would cater for that – also make you feel like you haven't lost out. Give you incentive to stay within your limit and doesn't peanalise you if you go over and you have generally been good staying under your quota.

Brendan. writes...

it would cost as all a lot more (orders of magnitude).

it would cost at least 10 times as much???? that's a stretch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude

Ive seen one company with $2 / Gig excess data charges.
And a few with $3 / gig.

So although 'nodes data blocks are reasonable. There's still a little room for improvement since they start at $5 a gig..

1 Gigabyte $5
2 Gigabytes $10
5 Gigabytes $15
10 Gigabytes $30
20 Gigabytes $60
30 Gigabytes $90

One good thing with buying blocks though, is you physically buy the block, and can still keep track of your usage.

Even a low $3 excess per gig, can still lead to some unexpected heavy bills for big users on fast net.

i normaly go for 2Gb depending on how long i have left on bill month

I liked the data blocks. I only need it if there is something that comes up that is unexpected like say a DL of a large beta at 9gig or something. Otherwise i very rarely need it. With the plans goign up next month at no extra cost i dont think i will need them again.

reeb writes...

i still dont love datablocks and i think they could be a bit cheaper ..

I'd love to have your problem but the only ADSL 2 I can get is from Helstra and I'd have to chew off my own arm to justify the expense not to mention being on a rim

RooBoy57 writes...

I'd love to have your problem but the only ADSL 2 I can get is from Helstra and I'd have to chew off my own arm to justify the expense not to mention being on a rim

Dont forget the leg, it will need to go too.

Given other ISPs often don't give you the option to buy blocks, or change plans without a "service fee", or just charge you a stupidly high per megabyte cost ( lets not mention those scum here ), I'd say the service is pretty damn good.

Personally I use it probably roughly every 3 months. That says to me I'm on the right plan, and occasionally we go over a bit and the block-purchase allows us to do that without stressing about quotas or being capped.

It's great. Keep it as it is. And like people have said, if you find yourself using it all the time then you are on the wrong plan. If you can't budget to go to a higher plan then you shouldn't be downloading as much.

harlen writes...

Personally I use it probably roughly every 3 months. That says to me I'm on the right plan, and occasionally we go over a bit and the block-purchase allows us to do that without stressing about quotas or being capped.

if i ever get capped $5 seems cheap to get my head above water to atleast be able to web surf and use a few node servers

Mr Bubbles writes...

I think a lot of subscribers use all of their data allocation for the month just 'cause they think it is going to waste if they don't use it ALL.

I agree. With iiNet (I am currently transfering to Node) I would sometimes just go a bit crazy on the unused quota by downloading stuff just for the sake of it, since I know that the quota won't be rolled over the next month and I don't want to waste it all. Having said that though, with Internode my usage would probably be different as I don't have peak and off peak restrictions like I do with iiNet. So no "wasted" quota on the off peak, as there won't be any off peak.

As for the data blocks themselves, I kind of like the idea. One the many many things that has attracted me to Internode was the option of extra data through data blocks. iiNet does not have this, and whilst I will try to not make it a habbit of needing data blocks every month, it is good that the option is there. Since my plan on Internode will be $10 a month cheaper than iiNet, I could if need be, purchase a $10 data block just to tie me over until the next month.

Whilst I have only been shaped once (technically twice, one time was 30 minutes before reset) in my time of using broadband, there have been times where I have been very close to being shaped (due to iiNet's frustrating peak and off peak quota split) and have wanted to buy even just an extra 1GB of data. However, this option was simply not there.

So coming from a provider who does not have the option of extra data without changing plans to joining a provider who does have that option of extra data, I can tell you that it is a welcome feature. So yes, even though I am not physically connected to Internode *yet* (will be in a few days), data blocks certainly is a nice and welcoming change.

Glad to be onboard.

reeb writes...

i cant afford (well, justify) going on a 40gb or 80gb plan all the time, just in case i use a lot of data one month. previously i could just change plan for the month – the flexibility was a very cool feature of internode.

Mmm. This is interesting. Now again, I am only just transfering to Internode so I do not know exactly how it differs, but with iiNet you can change plan mid month and have your quota adjusted accordingly. However, adjusting an iiNet plan half way during your billing cycle was not a good idea, as you would bit stung with alignment charges all over due to iiNet's atrocious billing system. What is worse is that the reps at iiNet could not tell you what alignment charges you would get and when.

Anyway, point being is that it is interesting that for some people a plan change is the prefered method of getting extra data than buying a data block. As I stated before, coming from an ISP who does not provide data blocks as an option, it certainly is a welcome change. Maybe it's just the way iiNet handled billing that put me off plan changes in order to get me extra quota and appreciate data blocks more.

As for the data blocks being too expensive, well I agree with what has been psoted:- Other ISP's excess usage charges are quite high in some cases, so I think that the pricing of the data blocks is quite fair indeed. Especially considering that Internode plans do not count uploads or have excess usage charges. If Inernode wanted to, they could have their plans with excess usage charges. However, they don't – which is good.

Call me Bob writes...

Yeah, a bit pricey. 2Gig for $5 would be more reasonable.

I prefer 5Gig for nothing which has in effect happened with the new plans.

Other ISP's excess usage charges are quite high in some cases, so I think that the pricing of the data blocks is quite fair indeed. Especially considering that Internode plans do not count uploads

I never thought of it this way. I guess I forgot we're getting around 25% extra value out of the fact uploads aren't counted haha.

First time I ever needed to use a data block was a few months ago and I was more than happy to pay what I paid for the data block.

Managing our usage is our responsiblity and for those of us that have tried to cut it fine and ended up wandering nto throttling territory......data blocks are a great way to save our sanity until rollover.

The thought of using the net again with throttling almost makes me break out in hives.

reeb writes...

it doesnt inspire a lot of loyalty in that respect.

I have often thought that offering 1% discount per 3 months of loyalty on data blocks would be a pretty cool "reward" type sceme (maybe capped at some arbitrary figure like 50%, after all, thats over 12 years loyalty!) ...

I don't mind databocks, there a great "get out of jail free" card when it happens, and if I know I am in for a big month next month, I still change my plans in advance ...

Tek

reeb writes...

so the only reason i can see for being locked into plans and having to buy data blocks is that it is more profitable, however at the expense of customer satisfaction (and therefore longer term profits) IMO.

You have the option of remaining shaped or buying data blocks;I prefer to buy data blocks if necessary.

We stopped doing instant upgrades because they create a big mess in the billing system. Too many people called accounts to complain about their "wrong" bill so we stopped doing it.

To be frank, instant upgrades were a big success as far as profit goes but the cost of the call centre resources ate all that profit.

Sometimes you can do something that seems completely sensible that has unexpected consequences and snap changes were a great example of that.

One day we will have a better billing system and then I expect to see snap changes make a miraculous recovery. But please don't hold your breath for that day, it's likely to be some time off.

In the mean time datablocks are your friend.

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

jsl

John Lindsay writes...

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

Probably. With a lot of companys adding features to entice customers (i.e. video on demand) having far cheaper data blocks than anyone else in the market would definitely be a big tick next to node imo.

I'm just hoping the current Extreme-starter plan 10 GB $49.95 /mo which is the same price and quota as the Home-1500-Explorer will be bumped by 5 gigs to make it comparable to the two other extreme and 1500k same priced plans.

HOME-Extreme-Value 25 GB $59.95 /mo
Home-1500-Advance 20 GB $59.95 /mo

John Lindsay writes...

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

Simple economics. Lower prices will certainly increase demand for data blocks. What price would bring in the most profits and satisfy the most customers? From my own experience I have only used data blocks once though I would use it more if it wasn't so expensive. I bought a 10 gig block for $30 I think it was. I had gone close to my limit and there was a few things in particular that I wanted to download. However I feel that is a bit of a rip off when you consider that I get 40gb on my $75 plan wich includes all the costs associated with infrastructure. Therefore I have since been careful not to go over my limit since the relatively high price of the data blocks is a big incentive. If a 10GB data block was only $15 then I probably wouldn't be so anal about monitoring my usage and would buy data blocks much more often. I can see why you wouldn't want to decrease the prices of the smaller data blocks 'cause of the overheads wrt admin and billing.

only brought data block once and though the cost was too high. with the current cost of it right now, i would take capping over the data block cost.

half price is better then what it is now. i would consider buying data block again if it was half price.

edit:
would buy data block this month if cost is halve. and as for buying double the usual quantity... for me it would be yes since i would actually buy data block again

John Lindsay writes...

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

Definitely John!

John Lindsay writes...

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

Yeah I would buy more data blocks if they were half price .

Well I've had to buy a data block today (curse you WAR beta client) and as only the second time I've used to service I must say I really don't feel that data blocks are good value for money.

Stainless_Steel_Rat writes...

I must say I really don't feel that data blocks are good value for money.

Would they be 'good value' at around $1.50 per gb?

Brendan. writes...

Would they be 'good value' at around $1.50 per gb?

No idea, I didn't say data blocks were not good value, I said the didn't "feel" like good value when compared to the old instant plan upgrades which in my case doubled my quota for $10 or so.

Brendan. writes...

Would they be 'good value' at around $1.50 per gb?

That could cannibalize some top end plans. E.g. someone topping out the Home-Extreme-Super $120/80GB plan won't move to the Home-Extreme-Elite $150/100GB plan when, at a $1.50 per GB for blocks, the price differential is zero.

Bad for the ISP because they need people paying for unused quota.

Stanley Devia writes...

Bad for the ISP because they need people paying for unused quota.

No, what I'm curious of, is whether it's the price that is what makes people think it isn't good value, or whether it's the concept of buying data in blocks instead.

Buying blocks makes people look at it from a per-unit angle. Fast-upgrade provided, in some case, twice or even three times the original quota – that changes the mechanics of how people perceive the value.

And thanks for spoiling the experiment. I was aware that that made blocks price comparable. I think JL may have been attempting to ask the same kind of question.. :)

it the price... always the price.

concept of data block or instant upgrade would be effective if the price in inline with one another. nothing stopping someone choosing to be cap if the data block price is too high.

data block and instant upgrade is a great idea. this way we only have ourselves to blame if we chose pay the additional download cap instead of leaving our bank account to be rape with unspecified max download limit.... (off topic: i prefer not to name those other isp that charge an arm and a leg for excess charge without any max capping)

personally the ideal price for me would be $1 per gig which would be the same in cost as instant upgrade of plan. but i don't think that would happen because of the higher download limit plan cost about $1.5 per gig when switching between them.

John Lindsay writes...

To be frank, instant upgrades were a big success as far as profit goes but the cost of the call centre resources ate all that profit.
I imagine over the long term they would be , if people didn't downgrade again and instead didn't use all their quota. Just out of interest did you find that many people used to downgrade their plan after they upgraded it?

I imagine if they were a big success as far as profit went then you were pretty successful at your future traffic volume prediction and the effect of people upgrading their plan didn't affect it much. I thought this would've been one reason why data blocks were more expensive.
One day we will have a better billing system and then I expect to see snap changes make a miraculous recovery. But please don't hold your breath for that day, it's likely to be some time off.
I think that is definitely needed I can see a few improvements that could be made , that would result in customer service improvements.
BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?
That really isn't the correct question , the correct question is whether you would sell more than twice as many if they were half the price. That includes people who currently don't buy them because they consider them too expensive.

I've purchased one data block but I took that as an incentive to upgrade my plan. I might actually be better off going back down a plan and using data blocks for when I go over.

John Lindsay writes...

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

Yes, though I'd think about dropping my plan down a step in quota, too.

Brendan. writes...

Would they be 'good value' at around $1.50 per gb?

After putting the current plans into excel and playing around a bit, I think the current plans are based on about $1.25/GB (plus a fixed cost that depends on the port provider).

John Lindsay writes...

BTW, would you all buy more than twice as many if they were half the price?

I currently don't buy any, I am good at sticking to downloading only under my quota. I use about 22-24GB out of my 25GB of quota, then on the last day use the rest.

Now I'm about to rollover to 40GB lol.

But I wouldn't be as worried about sticking to this if the data blocks were half the price, I might actually buy one every now and then.

I think a good idea also would to have a 'shape/unshape' button in the internode website thingy....

Example:
Lets just say I go over my quota and get shaped to 64k. I goto the site, and click unshape button, I am back to full speed, but I am charged say...0.05c/Mb (or something reasonable). Then once I'm done doing whatever I was doiing, click 'shape' and im back down to 64k and am not charged for downloading at this speed.

If that doesn't make sense to people I can explain it again (im sorta in a rush atm, about to go play cod4)

Scullywag writes...

After putting the current plans into excel and playing around a bit, I think the current plans a