Whirlpool

I'm again seeing email delays, and one correspondent has called my by phone to tell me that an email she'd just sent was bounced back with a "retries exceeded" error.

A test email I sent to myself seems to have disappeared into a black hole.

i'm having trouble too, for the past hour or more

I was too...it just came good a few minutes ago.

Guys, if its important (mine was some CAD Drawings from a company), ring them.

The email I wanted was 4 hours late, I haggled, and got $50 credited to my account. Kick em in the guts.

I sent an email to a bunch of people one of whom is at an Optus address. All were delivered except the Optus one for which my mailserver records the Optus server refusing connections as below:

Aug 2 09:52:55 centurion sm-mta[42747]: m71NqkLL042745: to=<xxxx@optusnet.com.au>, ctladdr=<meyesme@xxxx.org> (1000/0), delay=00:00:05, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=121
474, relay=extmail.optusnet.com.au. [211.29.133.14], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: Connection refused by extmail.optusnet.com.au.

It was finally delivered just over 2.5 hours later (retries are every 20 minutes):

Aug 2 12:29:09 centurion sm-mta[43856]: m71NqkLL042745: to=<xxxx@optusnet.com.au>, ctladdr=<meyesme@xxxx.org> (1000/0), delay=02:36:19, xdelay=00:00:03, mailer=esmtp, pri=661
474, relay=extmail.optusnet.com.au. [211.29.133.14], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (m722T78i018434 Message accepted for delivery)

Of course, now it's been delivered to Optus doesn't necessarily mean it's actually been delivered to the enduser yet. What gives?

This has been going on for weeks. I sent an test e-mail 5.35pm Friday and finally got it 9am Sunday.

What do they think they are achieving by not keeping their customers informed – other than gettgin them frustrated with Optus. I have a case open with them, but no updates.

All the test email i have sent to my self or other accounts linked to the account have been recived stright away. But when reciving emails from work have a status as sent and they have not bounced, but yet i have not recived most of them.
I have also tryed sending emails from various isp's thinking maybe it was just 1 isp that had trouble with optus but still no luck.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

I've only received one Optus Footy Tipping results e-mail of the four that usually arrive in my primary account on a Monday morning. It seems Optus can't even send e-mails to themselves. It was a good tipping week this week too.

Seems to have gone wrong AGAIN today. It's a real pain – I cannot sign up to things because I cannot get the confirmation emails.

Sylvia Else writes...

It's a real pain – I cannot sign up to things because I cannot get the confirmation emails.

It's a sad state of affairs where we can't trust our own ISP to deliver email. I now use gmail for most emails – much more reliable and a much better spam filter.

I've finally become so frustrated that I've sent my first ever complaint about an ISP to the Telecommunications Ombudsman. I don't seriously expect that that will lead to a faster resolution, but it might at least yield an explanation, which is so far conspicuously lacking.

My wife was sent 4 or 5 emails from a QLD government department in the past few days. Not one of them have been received so far. Its very frustrating as the sender doesn't get any bounce reports or anything so they think they've been received.

Like everyone else here I've received almost nothing for the last few days. Not even spam!

Although mail from within the Optus domains seem to be OK. For example I can receive my own test messages. And the test message from Cable Support.

I just got off the phone from Cable Support having made a very loud and forceful complaint about this total BS situation. After asking me to jump through all sorts of hoops he finally admitted that there is an issue with the mail server and once resolved undelivered mail should then be delivered.

Naturally his admission just angered me further because their obvious default position is denial both on the phone and the fact that NOTHING has been mentioned of the Service Status page. As per bloody usual.

Optus... your customer service just plain sucks!!

Zyxak writes...

Although mail from within the Optus domains seem to be OK.

For you maybe, but not for me. I normally receive four footy tipping e-mails from Optus on a monday morning (overnight Sunday). This week I received one on monday and one this morning. The other two are still missing.

Optus... your customer service just plain sucks!!

Yep.

It looks liked i'm having the same problems as you guys. I get emails sent weekly sent to me on Wednesday nights that I need to get before the weekend. I checked my email frequently over the days and yet it only came on Saturday. Has optus addressed this and other than ringing them up has their been any changes?

Well our missing emails turned up this morning. They were sent on 5/8/08 at 2.00pm and arrived here on 8/8/08 at 2.00am.

It would have been quicker to post them with Australia Post!

This was received regarding my open case with Optus at 10pm Thurs:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your email.

There is a know issue with the email server at present, our network team are aware of this and are looking into it, the report number for this issue is *******
We apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
Kind Regards,

I've replied asking why the e-mail service status has not been changed accordingly.

....edging closer to calling the Ombudsman...

Optus Response at Fri 2:34pm:

---------------------------
The problem has been reported to have been resolved, the delays we are now experiencing are the backlog of congested email queues.

We expect these delays to deline over the next 48 hours until the email sending returns to normal.

----------------------------
Let's see...

Sydneysider01 writes...

Let's see...

Yes, we will. I won't hold my breath.

I asked Optus support –

"Spasmodic problems with email receipt. Confirmed by reports on www.whirlpool.net. Have a look!
Please publish the TRUE situation with email on the Service Status page so all clients are aware of the problems.
Please admit there is problem. Clients may then be more understanding of it........."

Answer –

"Thank you for your email.

We're unable to publish anything currently as it's not affecting all users, all domains names and all types of emails.

If you'd like us to investigate this specific issue, please provide 1 set of headers from a delayed email. This will assist us in narrowing down the problem.

To send the "headers" of an email you have received to us please follow these steps......"

Guys,

I'm gonnna throw a spanner in the works here.

I am ALSO having email problems, BUT I am NOT using the optus email server.

I host my website in the U.S. and I connect to the U.S. directly, YET... I am having the exact same symptoms experienced here – that you have all reported with the optus email.

Suffice to say, it is NOT the optus smpt services or anything like that.

To me, it seems to be a PORT BLOCKING of some sort (perhaps malicious) to ensure all port 25 stuff [even tho we have unblocked it at our ends] doesn't get thru to the user.

Anyone also experiencing what I am?

bentleg writes...(quoting Optus)

We're unable to publish anything currently as it's not affecting all users, all domains names and all types of emails.

What a load of bureaucratic side-stepping crap! They'll only publish on the Service Status page if it affects everybody? OMG.

sachz writes...

I host my website in the U.S. and I connect to the U.S. directly, YET... I am having the exact same symptoms experienced here – that you have all reported with the optus email.

Mail servers are increasingly refusing connections from addresses in dynamically allocated ranges. Sometimes these ranges are incorrectly specified as well. so that people with static IPs, who should be able to run a mail server, find that their mail doesn't get through.

However, on a brief search, I cannot find any SMTP server outside Optus that I can actually reach suggesting that Optus is blocking outgoing port 25 access.

But that would not explain the delays many of us have being seeing.

Heya,
I wasn't able to send via port 25 either on optus or other mail servers, so I created a port forward in my router at work to test it externally, so say, external port being 5000 was then redirected to 25, and it worked.

Michael

wildhorse86 writes...

wasn't able to send via port 25 either on optus or other mail servers,

Sounds more like a local issue on your router or firewall software in your PC. Any blocks imposed by Optus would affect the redirected output, since it would be sent to port 25.

It is probably something local...
However, tell me – how would optus know that my server on internode is receiving port 25.

My Setup sends Port 5000 > Router at work receives data on port 5000 and then redirects it to work's local port 25. Optus aren't going to know that my set up at work is doing that.

Michael

wildhorse86 writes...

My Setup sends Port 5000 > Router at work receives data on port 5000 and then redirects it to work's local port

Sorry, I didn't read your previous post properly and misunderstood your intent.

I gather that what you're saying is that you cannot reach your work's server at port 25, but can reach it at port 5000, which assuming your work's server can receive emails from other servers, supports the idea that Optus are blocking port 25 outbound.

Sylvia.

I've been sending test messages over the weekend and they have been coming straight through, so for me I would consider it fixed. BUT!!! now I have another problem; I sent an e-mail to multiple recipients pointing them to new photos on our website and six came back refused as spam.... When I checked the supplied log, the IP address they refer to is owned by Optus (via who is) and one directed me to a spam monitoring site where the optus IP is listed

http://www.uceprotect.net/en/rblcheck.php

Optus IP address: 211.29.132.188

I've sent it into Optus, but would having 20 recipients trigger this? – it never did before.. I've send out wider lists than this.

Thanks

The page says that the listing is because spamtraps were targeted from Optus's mail server, so the number of recipients is not relevant.

It seems to imply that one of Optus's subscribers has been sending out Spam. Your bounces are just collateral damage.

Sydneysider01 writes...

I've sent it into Optus

<sigh> They'll probably tell you to change your password. </sigh>

Sydneysider01 writes...

I sent an e-mail to multiple recipients pointing them to new photos on our website and six came back refused as spam....

Emails containing links and numerous addressees cop spam blocking at some ISPs. It happened to me at Hotmail with blind address list of 50 and an embedded link. Resending, directly addressing the hotmail recipients got me past it. Sending blind to the same list without an embedded link goes straight through.

Had a similar but not identical experience with iinet a few weeks ago.

Can't say I blame Optusnet and others to filter out spam likely spam but it is annoying when your email is genuine.

bentleg writes...

Can't say I blame Optusnet and others to filter out spam likely spam but it is annoying when your email is genuine.

Spam blocking should be optional per user. I would rather they didn't tamper with my mail at all, Mozilla's junk filter gets most of them and I can manually mark the others if it means that my genuine mail makes it through to me.

This is ridiculous! I just received a mail stamped 11:20 yesterday. Obviously Optus is still running considrably behind. Another indicator of problems is that I have not had a single spam on my main address in over a week! Meanwhile, my other address is being steadily spammed. About 20 per day, which is about average. I have Mozilla setup to keep junk mail for 7 days before deleting (just in case) and this is the first time in many years the junk folder is actually empty!

Also, all of my subscriptions seemed to have lapsed, probably due to bounce messages.

NOT HAPPY!!

Hi guys

I'm having trouble sending emails through optusnet now.

My outlook just says:
the operation timed out waiting for a response from the sending (SMTP) server
My SMTP server is set to mail.optusnet.com.au

anyone else having trouble with this?

Zyxak writes...

Spam blocking should be optional per user.

It is .. https://webmail.optuszoo.com.au/spamfilter/

Another indicator of problems is that I have not had a single spam on my main address in over a week! Meanwhile, my other address is being steadily spammed. About 20 per day, which is about average.

Then you probably only have the spam filter turned on for your primary account.

NOT HAPPY!!

Oh well.

Tezmyster writes...

It is .. https://webmail.optuszoo.com.au/spamfilter/

Then you probably only have the spam filter turned on for your primary account.

Nope

The filtering we are seeing is PRIOR to the "official" Optus spam filter you refer to, and the customer has no control over it. The "official" filter merely flags spam to a special folder. The stuff we are talking about is being rejected at the mail server back to the sender with nothing coming forward to the addressee.

Tezmyster writes...

It is .. https://webmail.optuszoo.com.au/spamfilter/

It is off. I was thinking about filtering they do over and above that.

Then you probably only have the spam filter turned on for your primary account.

Either way my main account is still not working properly.

Edit: Old mail still dribbling in. I just got one from 08/08/08 13:22.

Argh, I wish I saw this thread earlier.

Today, I got a "returned mail: see transcript for details" message for a job application that I had sent out a week ago. This definitely taught me a lesson – apply EARLY.

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.onsecure.gov.au.:

>>>>>> MAIL From:<[edited]@optusnet.com.au> SIZE=246600

<<< 421 4.7.0 mail.onsecure.gov.au Error: too many errors
<cyber-ops@dsd.gov.au>... Deferred: Connection reset by mail.onsecure.gov.au.
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue

Reporting-MTA: dns; fallbackmx08.syd.optusnet.com.au
Arrival-Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:24:33 +1000

Looks like Optus' MTA had trouble talking ;)

Re-sent it via my own mail server, watched the email go through with no problems – the receiving MTA only had greylisting, nothing fancy. Unfortunately I still used my Optus address as the return address, had I known about this issue, I would have used my TPG address instead. *kicks Optus*

Aeriana writes...

the receiving MTA only had greylisting

Unfortunately, there is a recognised problem sending emails from Optus to servers that implement grey listing, because Optus's system will retry from different IP addresses.

However, this is a different problem from the one whereby mails get delayed *arriving* at Optus.

*kicks Optus*

It's a moot point whether grey-listing is compliant with SMTP, so maybe you should be kicking the MTA implementing grey-listing.

Sylvia Else writes...

maybe you should be kicking the MTA implementing grey-listing

Eh well... It *is* the government after all (and I'd happily kick them too mind you). And it's not like greylisting is uncommon. I'm no fan of greylisting (I like my mail sent and received instantly) But uh, if Optus is trying from different IP addresses somehow, that is not an ideal way to implement things. Once a message has been spooled, it should stay in the mail queue on that one server and be sent from there.

And actually you see, there are 2 parts to my email problem – the MTA gave up retrying after 5 days, however, I received the receipt after *7* days.

Aeriana writes...

however, I received the receipt after *7* days.

Hmm.... that's a puzzlement. I haven't noticed Optus's servers having any difficulties sending emails to themselves.

if Optus is trying from different IP addresses somehow, that is not an ideal way to implement things.

The problem has been brought to their attention more than once. The reply I got when I raised the issue indicated that the person concerned hadn't a clue.

WOOHOO! I never thought I'd be happy to receive spam but I think it's an indicator that mail might be resuming normal activity.

Up until yesterday I was still receiving delayed mail from the 8th but from this morning mail appears to be coming through very quickly.

And all this without any word from Cable Support or notification on the Service Status page.

Optus... I'm glad the problem appears to have been rectified but your customer service still sucks!

Zyxak writes...

indicator that mail might be resuming normal activity

I don't want to put a dampener on your excitement, but this issue has returned to normal, and then recurred, several times already.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else writes...

I don't want to put a dampener on your excitement, but this issue has returned to normal, and then recurred, several times already.

It might have returned to normal for some people previously but I've had no spam or regular subscriptions for 10+ days until this morning, and for about 7 days I got nothing at all.

I got a reply from the TIO to the effect that I first have to contact Optus's special TIO handling 1300 number. Since my emails are still being significantly delayed, I've done that, and supposedly a product specialist will look into it and get back to me within a few days.

I'll keep the forum posted.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else writes...

Since my emails are still being significantly delayed

Emails dirent to my Optusnet address seem to be coming through OK but I use a Bigfoot address (free mail forwarding) for most places and those emails are still being delayed. I think Optus might have grey-listed Bigfoot. Not sure.

Zyxak writes...

I think Optus might have grey-listed Bigfoot.

Or rather not white-listed it in their grey-listing system.

I too strongly suspect Optus of trying to implement grey-listing. Hopefully the product-specialist will be able to enlighten us.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else writes...

I got a reply from the TIO to the effect that I first have to contact Optus's special TIO handling 1300 number.

Did you get a TIO reference number with that? If so, that's the standard process for a Level 1 TIO complaint.

TicTacToe writes...

Did you get a TIO reference number with that? If so, that's the standard process for a Level 1 TIO complaint.

Yes, I did, and so I gather. Whether it really gets me closer to talking to someone with a clue at Optus, I don't know. But I can dream.

NOOOO!!! Its happened again – e-mails sent to me on Thurs are turning up over the weekend and even as late as today. What are my escalation options with these guys? – reporting and "resolving" is getting me nowhere – this has been going on for over a month now...

Sydneysider01 writes...

NOOOO!!! Its happened again -

Yep, sure has. Didn't get my Catch-of-the-day yet – normally comes just after midday. My DealsDirect newsletter hasn't arrived yet either – normally first thing in a morning.

Strangely, a newsletter I get from the UK has arrived on time every day during this fiasco!!!

Sylvia Else writes...

I got a reply from the TIO to the effect that I first have to contact Optus's special TIO handling 1300 number. Since my emails are still being significantly delayed

I would be interested to see the outcome, considering, the SMTP protocol has no guarantees of delivery to the final recipient..

Brad@OptusNet writes...

I would be interested to see the outcome, considering, the SMTP protocol has no guarantees of delivery to the final recipient..

I don't see the relevance of that. The situation appears to be that Optus are declining emails addressed to my mailbox. Optus cannot reasonably argue that that's OK because the protocol used by the sender doesn't guarantee delivery.

Sylvia Else writes...

I don't see the relevance of that.

Of course you don't.

Optus are declining emails addressed to my mailbox.

Ive not seen any of your headers/bounces in this thread, care to post some?

Optus cannot reasonably argue that that's OK because the protocol used by the sender doesn't guarantee delivery.

The protocol is used by the senders MTA, and the receivers MTA.

I'm not taking sides, so don't get me wrong, my point still stands. I'm interested in the *outcome* based on the protocol its implementation and the stance OptusNet will take(whether it be within their right or not..).

Having said that, what SLA were you offered for email at signup? (I no longer have an optusnet account...so don't know whats on offer)

Brad@OptusNet writes...

Ive not seen any of your headers/bounces in this thread, care to post some?

OK, try this one: (Email address masked)

Received: from 151534-web.catchoftheday.com.au (151534-web.catchoftheday.com.au [67.192.94.155])
by mail17.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m6SBKJLc003141
for <xxxxxxx@optusnet.com.au>; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:20:21 +1000
Received: by 151534-web.catchoftheday.com.au (Postfix, from userid 48)
id E79871220FA5; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:16:22 +1000 (EST)

Up until this problem began a few weeks ago, these emails were received within minutes of sending. Now it can be days.

I haven't read through the whole thread but:

I'm having issues again also, I should have had around 100 email's from ocau subscriptions in the last couple of days, but only some are getting through. I had the same problem about 2 weeks ago, and then after about 4 days, I got about 75 different emails all at once.

Some sites are sending within 10 mins or instantly, sites like ocau are taking days (I still havent received some from the weekend).

Maxwell Smart writes...

OK, try this one: (Email address masked)

Of course Im not trying to stir the pot, but that only shows a delay between 2 MTAs. It does not show if Optusnet was having issue receiving, or whether the source MTA had issues sending. :)

Brad@OptusNet writes...

ve not seen any of your headers/bounces in this thread, care to post some?

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of its
recipients after more than 24 hours on the queue on smtp-mx-server-6.servers.netregistry.net.
The message identifier is: 1KMWyt-0006uy-2D
The date of the message is: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:45:49 +1000
The subject of the message is: Email aliases.
The address to which the message has not yet been delivered is:
xxxxxxxxx@optusnet.com.au
(ultimately generated from xxxxx@xxxxxxx)
Delay reason: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxxxx@xxxxxxxx>:
host extmail.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.14]:
451 4.3.2 Please try again later

Given the delay of 24 hours, it appears a reasonable inference that the Optus MTA has given the same response each time the netregistry MTA tried to send it.

Brad@OptusNet writes...

Of course Im not trying to stir the pot,

Granted.

but that only shows a delay between 2 MTAs. It does not show if Optusnet was having issue receiving, or whether the source MTA had issues sending.

Yes, I agree. It would suggest that the originating SMTP server was unable to deliver the message to the Optusnet server for several days. The point is that up until around 3 weeks ago, this wasn't happening. I always got these emails within minutes of them being sent.

Also, emails I receive from a friend on BigPond also sometimes are delayed and emails I send to him can be delivered days after I send them (or not at all with no error message sent back to me) while daily email newsletters from a UK news service always come through without any appreciable delay at all.

There is definitely something going on and while some people posting here have reported admissions from tech support that there IS an issue, my emails to them resulted in no such admission.

I got a call from the product specialist as a result of my call to the number provided by the TIO.

He initially told me it was a problem with a DSLAM (but I'm on cable anyway). When I queried that (just by repeating the word "DSLAM") he explained that the engineers needed to replace a PC network card at the exchange.

I asked whether the problem was affecting everyone, and he said that it was affecting about 200 subscribers. He wasn't able to explain why it wasn't affecting everyone, nor give any estimate of the time to fix.

In the whole, I think I was being fobbed off by someone who (by his own admission) had no technical knowledge, who presumably thought that I wouldn't have any either.

Sylvia.

People actually use optus email? I quite amazed.

As mentioned in another thread, I am seeing constant repeated deferrals from extmail.optusnet.com.au:

status=deferred (host extmail.optusnet.com.au[211.29.133.14] said: 451 4.3.2 Please try again later (in reply to MAIL FROM command))

I am not an Optus client but I have a user base of 100k+ that emails users at optusnet.com.au. I currently have 5500 emails queued for this domain.

If you are an Optus client I expect that you will not be getting any mail atm.

DanD writes...

People actually use optus email? I quite amazed.

As little as possible now. Mostly use gmail – much more reliable and better spam filtering.

Sorry – my comment makes no sense.

Sylvia Else writes...

He initially told me it was a problem with a DSLAM

engineers needed to replace a PC network card at the exchange.

I think I was being fobbed off

Thats Bollocks. You were fobbed

rfc2821 writes...

If you are an Optus client I expect that you will not be getting any mail atm.

Maybe your IPs/Domains have been classified as spammers. Not all connections are deferred. This is probably also the case with Sylvia's Email. The IPs or domains may be on SORBS which I believe Optusnet uses.. Maybe they use other RBL type lists, or implement rate limits that are delaying email, to protect their systems. Its not happening for all IP addresses/Domains at any rate.

brad@brad-laptop:~$ telnet extmail.optusnet.com.au 25
Trying 211.29.133.14...
Connected to extmail.optusnet.com.au.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au ESMTP Sendmail 8.13.1/8.13.1; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:43:26 +1000
ehlo tpg.com.au
250-mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au Hello 123-253-31-11.tpgi.com.au [123.253.31.11], pleased to meet you
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-PIPELINING
250-8BITMIME
250-SIZE 10485760
250-DSN
250-ETRN
250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN
250-STARTTLS
250-DELIVERBY
250 HELP
mail from: xxxxxxx@tpg.com.au
250 2.1.0 xxxxxxx@tpg.com.au... Sender ok
rcpt to: xxxxx@optusnet.com.au
250 2.1.5 xxxxx@optusnet.com.au... Recipient ok
data
354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
Subject: test email

test email
.

250 2.0.0 m7K9hQKK001422 Message accepted for delivery

Brad@OptusNet writes...

Maybe your IPs/Domains have been classified as spammers

Certainly the problem seems to be a function of the sending MTA's address. If I send email from gmail, it comes through immediately. If I send from the MTA of my mail service, it takes ages to arrive.

But my email service's MTA's addresses don't appear in any blacklist likely to be used by Optus, and if the problem is blacklisting, Optus should be able to say so.

I rather suspect that Optus are doing something else that targets (perhaps unintentionally) MTAs likely to be used for mailing lists and/or mail forwarding.

The big question is whether Optus are genuinely unable to identify the cause of the problem, or whether they know full well the cause, but are unwilling to fix it for some specific business reason.

Sylvia.

Brad@OptusNet writes...

Maybe your IPs/Domains have been classified as spammers.

We've been participating in the Optus AFL footy tipping for a few years now. For all of that time we've got our results e-mails in my primary Optus e-mail account first thing every Monday. When this problem started we were getting one or two of the four regular e-mails. The others were never delivered. We seem to have progressed this week to getting one on Monday and the other three on Tuesday afternoon.

Optus cannot deliver e-mail to itself in a timely fashion. This is wholly an Optus problem.

OMG – I just sent myself an email from gmail to Optus and I got it straight away. It normally takes a day or two :(

wazzam writes...

OMG – I just sent myself an email from gmail to Optus and I got it straight away. It normally takes a day or two :(

Just to clarify, are you saying that you have previously sent emails to yourself at Optus from gmail and had them significantly delayed?

Sylvia.

Yep. I can send to gmail from Optus with no problem but from gmail to Optus is often delayed.

I contacted one of the companies from whom I get a daily newsletter to find out if they'd had other complaints about delays receiving emails. In the reply, they stated:

"We have been advised that there is an issue with newsletters being forwarded to our optusnet.com.au customers, can I ask that you go directly to Optusnet to have the matter resolved as we cannot fix this on our end."

And yet Optusnet tech support told me categorically there are no current email issues.

Maxwell Smart writes...

And yet Optusnet tech support told me categorically there are no current email issues.

It must be true, otherwise it would on the Service Status page hahahaha

Maxwell Smart writes...

yet Optusnet tech support told me categorically there are no current email issues

Maybe there is not... RateLimits/RBLs/Other Spam defences are most likely intentional.

i spoke to optus small business 10 mins ago and they say there is an email prob and the are working on it but dont have a time that it will be fixed. they admit there has been a problem with email for approx the last 3 weeks

What a joke three weeks for an email problem and no update on the status page. Its disgusting. I have lodged a complaint and if I get no reponse then off to the TIO.

I have already made enquiries with another ISP. Screw Optus, they treat their customers like crap.

At the very least update the status page or even email (unbloked) to everyone sayign theres a problem. Its utter BS if you run a business like I do.

Rant over....

If anyone is interested and is in SA please PM me. There's a great deal we can collectively get with another big SA ISP.

Gusman writes...

What a joke three weeks for an email problem

It's been a lot longer than that for me...maybe worse in the last three weeks.

At the very least update the status page or even email

Don't hold your breath :) Optus seem very good at denial.

I think we've had a bit of a thread shift so I've posted this response here. Continued from
/forum-replies.cfm?t=958464&p=7#r121

Sylvia Else writes...

None of these are Optus's fault,

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just using your quote to continue a discusion.

If it's not Optus' fault, whose fault is it? If an e-mail service is susceptible to hackers and spammers is it the fault of the service provider or the customers? All the customers are affected, is it all their faults? If it is so susceptible it gets blacklisted it seems to me the provider's security is at fault.

Well, not unless you want a SMS code style security scheme in place for every email that you send.

I don't know what that means but it looks to me like e-mail service providers need to tighten up their security.

Has anyone else actually lost email accounts? I set up two extra email accounts with optus which were then deleted. I noticed this when thunderbird couldn't log on to the mail server, and thru the account pages found that they had magically vanished. Had been using them for a month no problems.

CMOTDibbler writes...

If it's not Optus' fault, whose fault is it? If an e-mail service is susceptible to hackers and spammers is it the fault of the service provider or the customers? All the customers are affected, is it all their faults? If it is so susceptible it gets blacklisted it seems to me the provider's security is at fault.

In some cases it appears that all that's required to get blacklisted is for the server to send a single email to a honey-pot mailbox. That is, a mailbox whose purpose is to detect emails being sent to it when none should be.

The problem for an ISP is that they have no way of knowing whether an email originating from a subscriber's PC and passing through the ISP's mail server, is spam. They rely on acceptable use policies to deter their subscribers from sending spam, but this doesn't prevent spam being sent from compromised PCs, or by people who are using pre-paid accounts which are treated as disposable.

The use of compromised PCs could be prevented by requiring a unique authentication code to be used, where that authentication code is sent to the subscriber for each email by SMS. This is a technique used in some internet banking systems, but seems overkill for simple emails.

Jasey A writes...

I set up two extra email accounts with optus which were then deleted. I noticed this when thunderbird couldn't log on to the mail server, and thru the account pages found that they had magically vanished.

Optus doesn't magically delete e-mail accounts. Call support.

Sylvia Else writes...

In some cases it appears that all that's required to get blacklisted is for the server to send a single email to a honey-pot mailbox. That is, a mailbox whose purpose is to detect emails being sent to it when none should be.

When you're dealing with an ISP the size of Optus, it is pretty much inevitable that despite all efforts, some quantity of spams are going to get through every day, if not every minute or more often, while the fraction is still too small to be expressed as any kind of coherent percentage. If an RBL is going to be triggered by a single spam, it's going to keep getting triggered, all the time.

There is such a thing as oversensitive blocking and I suspect you'll find that many Australian ISPs have dealt with this by simply whitelisting each other. It's obviously harder to convince huge US service providers to do likewise for what to them might be a few fairly small carriers on the opposite end of the world.

I have worked in IT for many years now including a stint at one of Australias largest ISPs. I will be the first to admit that SPAM is a serious issue and requires constant monitoring and review of strategy.

Sylvia its sounds to me that you are suggesting that this is not Optus' fault and that by that their handling of the situation is acceptable. If anyone from Optus monitors this site (which if I was in customer relations I would) here's a few tips...

1. Treating your customers like dirt is not good for business
2. Denying there is a problem is not godo for business
3. Updating your Status page and letting customers know whats happening is good for business

I'm sorry Sylvia, I completely disagree. This is Optus's fault, they need to stand up and admit fault and fix the probelm. If a bit of spam to some customers and a few complaints from the minority means putting other isp's on a whitelist then DO IT.

I have emailed Optus asking for a full refund of the last bililng month and already have my letter for the TIO in draft for when Optus refuse. If you allow this type of behaviour to continue then it will become more increasing common.

Gusman writes...

Sylvia its sounds to me that you are suggesting that this is not Optus' fault and that by that their handling of the situation is acceptable. If anyone from Optus monitors this site (which if I was in customer relations I would) here's a few tips...

Just to be clear, I'm suggesting that finding themselves on RBLs is not the fault of Optus. RBLs affect mail outgoing from Optus.

The ongoing problem with delayed inbound mail is something separate, is clearly their fault, and is unlikely to have anything directly to do with spam, though it may well have an indirect involvement in the form of a botched attempt at dealing with inbound spam.

Sylvia.

I have experieced no delays with out going mail. Its almost instant. Its the incoming mail thats the issue here. Every time I have spoken to Optus its a SPAM issue that has caused a back log. I also have several emails requesting headers from bounced messages that friends have had to send via an altername email.

Despite taking the time four weeks ago to send the headers and referencing the optus ticket number they supplied I still have friends getting bonce backs. Either Optus are stalling for time and wasting mine which only angers me more or they simply lack the technical know how to get their whitelist updated. Yes no exageration at all I have the ticket number and all correspondence, I have been waiting 4 freakin weeks.

I wonder what the whole Spam setting on the Optus email settings web page is for? I have tried both on and off and there is no change.... email delays.

Sylvia Else writes...

Just to be clear, I'm suggesting that finding themselves on RBLs is not the fault of Optus. RBLs affect mail outgoing from Optus.

Who's fault is it then? Here is some of the stuff I've seen posted in defence of Optus. Opening bracketed is subject – follwed by comment by the apologist – then in closing bracketed my humble opinion for what its worth)

(On Spammers) It could originate from people who've bought a $10 prepaid access for the purpose of spamming. (Solution: Optus close this type of account! Easy but have they done it?)

(On blacklisting) The whole idea of RBLs seems flawed, because it opens email originating ISPs to denial of service attacks (No not true – they don't open emails they just block the ISP on the blacklist in this case Optus).

(On blocking emails sent from Optus) The person you are sending to needs to find an ISP that undertakes not to reject emails addressed to them (Are you kidding! – Optus has the problem and the solution is to inconvenience the recipient who's ISP's is functioning properly)

(On Spamming) It could also originate from people who're deliberately using the prepaid access for the purpose of getting Optus's servers onto blacklists. (Why hasn’t Optus stopped providing such accounts?)

(On Spamming) The spam could originate from the computers of subscribers who have compromised machines (Change the log in sequence to include a user name and password to get onto the internet before using email – like the Telstra log in; its not 100% effective but would help identify abused accounts and at least provide a way to start a trace...).

(On spam and email and blacklist) None of these are Optus's fault, and none are amenable to being addressed by Optus, other than by closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. (Only an apologist for Optus could come up with this one. They've had the problem for years and have failed to act. Telstra had a problem for one month and solved the problem and have not been on a blacklist since).

(On outbound email problems) None of these are Optus's fault. (Begs the question: what is Optus doing to resolve problems and who’s problem is it if not Optus’s)

(On blacklists) In some cases it appears that all that's required to get blacklisted is for the server to send a single email to a honey-pot mailbox. That is, a mailbox whose purpose is to detect emails being sent to it when none should be (Rubbish – it takes a great deal more than that to get on a blacklist)

Lets keep it simple:

1) Others have been on a blackklist (Telstra) and got themselves off the list.
2) Why can't Optus do the same.
3) More fundementally: Optus has been aware of the blacklisting for over 3 years. What have they done about it?

cherna writes...

(On Spammers) It could originate from people who've bought a $10 prepaid access for the purpose of spamming. (Solution: Optus close this type of account! Easy but have they done it?)

Whereas other ISPs would continue to offer this mode of access.

(On Spamming) The spam could originate from the computers of subscribers who have compromised machines (Change the log in sequence to include a user name and password to get onto the internet before using email – like the Telstra log in; its not 100% effective but would help identify abused accounts and at least provide a way to start a trace...).

I don't see how this would work. Email clients routinely store the user name and password to use them for retrieving mail. If authentication is required to send mail, then the email clients can also save the authentication information for that purpose. Any virus software worth its salt intending to use a PC for sending spam would be written to access these stored authentication details. The only way to limit this is to ensure that the required authentication information is not stored on the PC.

(On blocking emails sent from Optus) The person you are sending to needs to find an ISP that undertakes not to reject emails addressed to them (Are you kidding! – Optus has the problem and the solution is to inconvenience the recipient who's ISP's is functioning properly)

There is nothing in the SMTP protocol that suggests that a receiving MTA can reject mail based on the previously recorded behaviour of the sending MTA. This is an addition to the protocol that ISPs have adopted in an attempt to limit spam. It has a downside in that it inevitably catches email that is not spam. When an ISP rejects an email that is not spam, the ISP is not functioning properly from the perspective of the intended recipient. The intended recipient must then decide whether to tolerate this behaviour from their ISP or find another. I abandoned my previous mail service provider after they implemented grey-listing.

(On spam and email and blacklist) None of these are Optus's fault, and none are amenable to being addressed by Optus, other than by closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. (Only an apologist for Optus could come up with this one. They've had the problem for years and have failed to act. Telstra had a problem for one month and solved the problem and have not been on a blacklist since).

We don't know what Telstra actually did. It's unlikely they've managed to eliminate spam from their servers.

Success!

No seriously I actually got mail within 5mins of the sent time. I decided to get 10 mates with different ISP's to send me an email with the time in the subject line. Because these people are all over the place we used GMT.

I am pleased to say all 10 made it! It's a freakin miracle I know... you might say an Optus miracle.

Also after reading on another forum about other people getting credit back I decided to ring up and get some $$$. It actually worked, very little resistance. Another Optus miracle!

Heres how to do it..

1. Ring Optus Broadband DSL Direct: 1300 739 407 OR Optus Broadband DSL: 1300 309 333
2. Speak to real person, the automated service can not sense your anger.
3. Say "I'm a customer who has paid for Internet and Email. I only got half the service I paid for. I demand you credit my account because this is an Optus fault"
They say "Ok I will have to speak to someone and put you on hold"
4. Contain your rage by listening to the Optus call waiting music....
5. They get back to with "Ok you were are asking for a discount?"
6. Contain your rage....
7. You say "If you dont credit my account, I will leave Optus and NEVER come back".
8. And NOW you get credit.

I think the above answers the question of fault. YES Optus is at fault, YES they should refund you. YES I'm still changing ISP's.

Sylvia Else writes...

(On Spammers) It could originate from people who've bought a $10 prepaid access for the purpose of spamming. (Solution: Optus close this type of account! Easy but have they done it?)

Whereas other ISPs would continue to offer this mode of access.

If the other ISP's are providing this service without causing the types of problems we are experiencing with Optus they most certainly should continue to offer this mode of service.

On the otherhand if Optus has a problem through the supply of such accounts then it should suspend this type service until it finds a solution.

Gusman writes...

Success!

Interesting...I just sent a test email from my Gmail to all five of my Optus addresses and they all came though in seconds.

I'm not getting too excited though. I'll see how it goes over the next few days and weeks.

Gusman writes...

I am pleased to say all 10 made it! It's a freakin miracle I know... you might say an Optus miracle.

6. Contain your rage....

Hang on a second here, you claimed you worked for an ISP, yet you believe "raging" on the rep who has little to do with the problem or will likely be involved in the resolution is the solution. And you're doing this after you've had 10 emails sent to you with no problems? Please, of course they will give you a credit if you abuse them but that's only to get you off the phone, it doesn't add to the resolution at all.

I wonder how and why your stint at the ISP ended .. :-)

Sylvia Else writes...

We don't know what Telstra actually did. It's unlikely they've managed to eliminate spam from their servers.

There is no suggestion that Bigpond eliminated SPAM but they did get themselves off the blacklist. If Telstra can get themselves off the blacklist in a month then why can't Optus?

Optus have had 3 plus years to try and get off the list so I wonder if they care or are trying?

Sylvia Else writes...

The intended recipient must then decide whether to tolerate this behaviour from their ISP or find another

You're maintaining a stance that its not Optus's fault?

Who is on the black list? It’s Optus so to solve the problem they need to get off the blacklist.

example:

I send the same email using Optus and gmail to ISP xxx.

Gmail gets through.

Optus gets blocked by xxx with a message stating that it’s being returned because of an abuse block list place for Optus.

On your reasoning you say its ISP xxx fault and not Optus's? Defies logic!

What needs to happen is for Optus take measures to get off the black list.

The question now becomes what are they doing about getting off the blacklist? Its sounds to me like its nothing and what’s more Optus doesn't care.

cherna writes...

(On blacklists) In some cases it appears that all that's required to get blacklisted is for the server to send a single email to a honey-pot mailbox. That is, a mailbox whose purpose is to detect emails being sent to it when none should be (Rubbish – it takes a great deal more than that to get on a blacklist)

I beg to differ on this one. *Some* RBLs do in fact add IPs to their list, for a single email seen delivered to a honeypot. This goes for local blacklists and some providers implement also.

cherna writes...

I send the same email using Optus and gmail to ISP xxx.

Which is completely irrelevent to the thread which was based around delays in emails being received to Optusnet accounts, sending is a different ballpark.

What needs to happen is for Optus take measures to get off the black list.

Here's the problem, there are lots of RBL's out there, and it all comes down to what RBL the receiving server is using as to whether the emails are blocked as spam or not. Since their is no notification when an IP is added to an RBL, how do you expect any ISP to keep on top all the RBLs when more RBLs are being created and they are continually being dynamically updated? If you say xxx ISP has done it then you are being ignorant because all ISPs will have at least one mailserver IP on an RBL somewhere out there.

cherna writes...

(On Spammers) It could originate from people who've bought a $10 prepaid access for the purpose of spamming. (Solution: Optus close this type of account! Easy but have they done it?)

Or it could be due to users responding to phishing emails and providing their account details for spammers to use. Or user not securing their pc and having keyloggers/trojan action feeding more than just their email authentication details off to organised spam syndicates.

Maybe a better option would be to block all authenticated SMTP for all users so spammers overseas cannot exploit people falling for shuch scams.

Sylvia Else writes...

The ongoing problem with delayed inbound mail is something separate, is clearly their fault, and is unlikely to have anything directly to do with spam, though it may well have an indirect involvement in the form of a botched attempt at dealing with inbound spam.

I really don't think it has anything to do with spam and unfortunately the topic you started this thread to discuss (delays receiving e-mails) is really struggling to be heard beneath all the talk of spam which really should be taken to another thread. Unfortunately this tends to happen when vague subject lines are used – they become lightning rods for all kinds of assorted dramas that may or may not have anything to do with each other – and in this case they almost certainly don't.

Tezmyster writes...

Hang on a second here, you claimed you worked for an ISP, yet you believe "raging" on the rep who has little to do with the problem or will likely be involved in the resolution is the solution.

Contrary to popular belief, the rep almost certainly has the full discretion to give out credits or not give out credits, even if they discuss it with a supervisor.

Constructive approaches are much more l