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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Hi everyone, |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 1pm AEST
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User #86329 1167 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Given you are using CommunityNet it is safe to assume you're on an AdamDirect port, are you encapsulating using PPPoE or PPPoA? |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 3pm AEST
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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Got my hopes up for a second then. |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 4pm AEST
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User #87566 9 posts
Forum Regular
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No. Adam's servers run PPPoE LLC only. :) |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 5pm AEST
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User #188277 1125 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Adam's servers run PPPoE LLC only. :) As above, they don't. |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 6pm AEST
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User #200035 119 posts
Forum Regular
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Losing sync seems to be more of a modem issue than anything else. Have you tried the latest firmware for your NB6+4W? |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 8pm AEST
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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Thats the point, it doesn't lose sync. |
posted 2008-Jul-28, 10pm AEST
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User #200035 119 posts
Forum Regular
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Sorry, I meant losing auth not sync. Auth dropouts are usually a problem with the modem hardware, I'd call Adam and see if they could test it overnight. |
posted 2008-Jul-29, 10am AEST
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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Thanks Solymr, For the first time last night it didn't drop out. |
posted 2008-Jul-29, 1pm AEST
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User #89184 49 posts
Forum Regular
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I have a very similar problem, but only happens a couple times a week. (I've got a NB9W.) PPP is lost (and wifi stops working at the same time) and only a reboot fixes it. And about one time five even a reboot doesn't fix it (you can't even access the web admin), so I have to do a force reset to factory settings (press and hold the reset button on the back). I'm very disappointed with Netcomm. I've had some correspondence with them about this issue, and it's a common problem, but they're just not interested in getting it fixed. |
posted 2008-Aug-6, 12pm AEST
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User #159643 351 posts
ISP Representative
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I'm very disappointed with Netcomm. I've had some correspondence with them about this issue, and it's a common problem, but they're just not interested in getting it fixed. Can you produce a guide detailed enough that we can reproduce this fault ? |
posted 2008-Aug-6, 2pm AEST
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User #22620 245 posts
Forum Regular
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wifi is lost? |
posted 2008-Aug-6, 6pm AEST
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User #7128 310 posts
Forum Regular
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Been having regular dropouts the last few days |
posted 2008-Aug-6, 10pm AEST
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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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The problem I described seems to have resolved itself, now I've just been losing sync about 7pm every night for anywhere up to an hour. |
posted 2008-Aug-6, 11pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-6, 11pm AEST
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User #15346 3632 posts
ISP Representative
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As above, they don't. Like everybody else, Telstra are abandoning ATM, so PPPoE is the correct and only setting people should be using, regardless of whether they're attached via our equipment or via Telstra Wholesale ADSL. PPPoA should only be used if you modem isn't supporting PPPoE successfully, and that's unlikely if you've bought it in the last 3 to 5 years. |
posted 2008-Aug-7, 9am AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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I have a very similar problem, but only happens a couple times a week. (I've got a NB9W.) PPP is lost (and wifi stops working at the same time) and only a reboot fixes it. And about one time five even a reboot doesn't fix it (you can't even access the web admin), so I have to do a force reset to factory settings (press and hold the reset button on the back). I'm very disappointed with Netcomm. I've had some correspondence with them about this issue, and it's a common problem, but they're just not interested in getting it fixed. I can verify this, except for the wifi stopping, as I'm not using wifi at the moment. I've had the PPP auth lost problem since upgrading to the C211-S306NCM-C04_R01 firmware when it was first released as a Beta. I reported the problem then and the only response I ever got was that Netcomm couldn't reproduce it. After That they just weren't interested, claimed they weren't any other reports, despite my pointing out several from posts on Whirlpool. The previous C09_R10 firmware did not seem to have this problem, so I am fairly certain it's a firmware bug. Basically I found that in roughly 1 in 3 times when the NB9W drops the ADSL connection, it fails to restore the PPP Session. The logs continually show it attempting to connect, but for an unknown reason it's never successful and requires the Modem to be rebooted to restore connectivity. Although I must say I've not had this problem for a while, been connected since 25/07/08 without having to reboot. I'm sure it will be back again at some point. |
posted 2008-Aug-7, 9am AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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I am also having this issue with my Netcomm NB9W on Adam. I also loose PPP and have to do a reset to get it back up and running. I have tried all firmware version's with no success. I have also replaced my modem under warranty as Adam said it was not their problem. The above issue for me started just after Adam had their crash. Any one have a fix? It just happened again... It fell off just after we received a PSTN call. syslog: cmEndpt: 2, cid -1: CMEVT_PSTN_RING_ON in CMST_ONHOOK endpt state |
posted 2008-Aug-11, 8pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-11, 9pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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With the Scheduled outage on the Lonsdale Exchange this morning, i had this problem again. My NB9W dropped the PPP Session around 4:37am and repeated tried and failed to restore the PPP Session from that point until I rebooted the Modem at about 1:30pm. Here's the section of my logs that shows the PPP Reconnection Failures, note the Unexpected Packet which is constantly being reported: 2008-08-12 05:44:13,Daemon.Notice,192.168.1.1,pppd[557]: PPP: Start to connect ... As I have mentioned before, I have sent this information to Netcomm and the only reply I've got from them is "We can't find or reproduce the problem". |
posted 2008-Aug-12, 3pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-12, 3pm AEST
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User #48674 6419 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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Would be interesting if you guys could try a different brand of modem and see if the issue is still present. |
posted 2008-Aug-12, 6pm AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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I have contacted Adam Help Desk. They are monitoring my connection for the next 48 hours. The staff member changed my performance profile while I was on the phone and PPP could not sync. They could not offer any advice at this stage. I am able to replicate the error manually by disconnecting the ADSL line from the modem and re connecting. Has anyone else logged it with Help Desk. The more I look the more wide spread /forum-replies-archive.cfm/512087.html |
posted 2008-Aug-12, 7pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-12, 7pm AEST
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User #86228 62 posts
Forum Regular
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It would be good if you guys with the loss of auth could try a different brand of modem, I've seen 4 or 5 cases where the NB6 has displayed this exact behaviour on the adam network. A modem that drops sync / can't sync while the phone is in use would suggest a filtering or line issue, probably not related to your modem at all. |
posted 2008-Aug-12, 7pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-12, 7pm AEST
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User #7128 310 posts
Forum Regular
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Well I have a BiPAC 7404VGP modem and have experienced several dropouts in the last few weeks getting rather annoying |
posted 2008-Aug-12, 9pm AEST
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User #107371 505 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Hi, I'm currently away on business, but my wife is home and said that the past couple of days she has been having connection issues. I looked at my profile manager and noted that there were 16 connection attempts yesterday, and 6 today already. Any other suggestions appreciated. I get home on Friday... |
posted 2008-Aug-13, 8am AEST
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User #48674 6419 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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I looked at my profile manager and noted that there were 16 connection attempts yesterday, and 6 today already. Well I have a BiPAC 7404VGP modem and have experienced several dropouts in the last few weeks getting rather annoying So have I, but unfortunately it can be the nature of the (ADSL2+) beast. Drop-outs are going to occur for a number of reasons and aren't necessarily related to the OP's specific issue. Make sure you've worked through the steps in Matt's excellent posts here – /forum-replies.cfm?t=758776&ux=20504 – to help ensure you've diagnosed as much as you can from your end. |
posted 2008-Aug-13, 9am AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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I have received the following from Adam internet. "As per our phone conversation, there is a known issue with the NB9W range of modem with dropping PPP and not regaining this until a powercycle. I have contacted Netcomm tech support as I was aware of a beta firmware that resolves this issue, however they have informed me that a new public firmware release does indeed resolve this issue. The new firmware can be found at the following address: http://www.netcomm.com.au/pro Unfortunately this is not the case as this is the firmware that I am using. |
posted 2008-Aug-14, 6pm AEST
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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Well at least the acknowledge a problem, what about the NB6 series? The Mrs informs me that she's had to reset the modem most mornings lately, so my problem still remains. |
posted 2008-Aug-14, 7pm AEST
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User #200035 119 posts
Forum Regular
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Lots of stuff about an NB9 modem. So, you complained to Adam about a modem they don't support or sell? They at least tried to help you, most companies wouldn't even bother with third party supplied equipment. |
posted 2008-Aug-14, 8pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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I can confirm also that this issue is not resolved if the C04_R02 firmware currently on the Netcomm website. It is the firmware I am using and experiencing the PPP Auth reconnection failure issue with. It is also the firmware I have been using since it was first released as a beta and have been complaining to Netcomm about this very problem ever since! Well, at least for as long as they were returning my emails. The contact I had within Netcomm has informed me that he is no longer working for them, but I have not heard of anyone replacing him, despite asking that very question. So, you complained to Adam about a modem they don't support or sell? They at least tried to help you, most companies wouldn't even bother with third party supplied equipment. Considering that the NB9 and hence the NB9W are the only all in one ADSL2+ and VoIP capable Modem mentioned in the AdamTalk section of the Adam website, (in the FAQ and more notably the Setup Guide for the NB9 in the support section), I don't think you can say it's a modem they don't support. |
posted 2008-Aug-14, 9pm AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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I am using a NB6+4W supplied by Adam. Yes they may not support the NB9W, but they support and supply Netcomm modems. Modems that have the same issue that I and others have. |
posted 2008-Aug-14, 9pm AEST
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User #211755 7 posts
Participant
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I have same problem with bipac 7300g All I do to fix is to re-input my password and it comes up ok. Prob happens twice a week |
posted 2008-Aug-15, 10pm AEST
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User #55710 2377 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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I can confirm also that this issue is not resolved if the C04_R02 firmware currently on the Netcomm website I believe it also affects the NB9WMAXX F/W version D111-S306NCM-C01_R04. I have a friend who is also experiencing this problem, after I made a recommendation for this router . . . The contact I had within Netcomm has informed me that he is no longer working for them, but I have not heard of anyone replacing him, despite asking that very question. I believe this individual has been replaced :) Your contact may have handed the ropes over to his new replacement in the last week he was an employee and hence at no stage was that position vacant. There is however a different position advertised. Anyone want to move to Sydney? Housing is affordable. (I'm ex South Aussie if you haven't gathered) Basically I found that in roughly 1 in 3 times when the NB9W drops the ADSL connection, it fails to restore the PPP Session. I understand you are all on AdamDirect ports and the failure to re-establish PPP is intermittent? (We are only focused on the PPP not being re-established issue. If you are losing sync, its a different problem.) I just had a look at the log Aus-Archer provided and I count at-least four different Access Concentrators/BRAS all in the rush to offer PADOs. (MACs 00:1a:e3:1f:f8:1b, 00:12:44:c0:d0:1b, 00:13:5f:78:d4:1b, 00:14:f1:07:d8:1b. Interestingly 00:1a:e3:1f:f8:1b sends two PADO's from what appears the one PADI, although this is one log and doesn't show everything on on WAN side). If I was to speculate from the one log, the NB9W sends an PPPoE Initiation (PADI) and gets an offer (PADO). It then sends a PADR selecting which BRAS it wants to talk to, and waits patiently for a PADS. However there is a flood of other offers (PADOs) coming in from other BRAS, and gives up after receiving a further four PADOs. It would then be a timing thing. If the PADS comes in (i.e. the BRAS responds) before the NB9W receives four other PADOs from the other BRAS then all is sweat – everything works. However, if it doesn't then its game over. The state machine allows for five attempts, and "Unexpected packet" simply means the packet isn't a PADS. If you are on a Telstra port, you will hit Telstra's BRAS first (and there probably isn't as many of them). I only have one on my Telstra port (Internode), so I don't get flooded with multiple offers. However for redundancy it would be fair to have a couple. Anyone got any more logs? What Aus-Archer has provided is with Enable PPP Debug Mode ticked in the WAN Interface. |
posted 2008-Aug-15, 10pm AEST
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User #200035 119 posts
Forum Regular
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Considering that the NB9 and hence the NB9W are the only all in one ADSL2+ and VoIP capable Modem mentioned in the AdamTalk section of the Adam website, (in the FAQ and more notably the Setup Guide for the NB9 in the support section), I don't think you can say it's a modem they don't support. Sure I can, they MENTION the product, they do not claim to support it but they do give some guides to set it up. Adam don't supply the modem, thus it's third party supplied equipment and Adam has no obligation to support such a product. They may give guides and such for the equipment, sure, but read what I said above. Yes they may not support the NB9W, but they support and supply Netcomm modems. Modems that have the same issue that I and others have. What can Adam do? It's not like Adam can write a firmware patch to fix the modem itself. Yes, Adam supply Netcomm modems, but only NB6 and NB6+4w. I own an NB6+4W and have never had a problem with it losing auth and regaining. As far as I'm aware, the NB6 range have been fixed in their latest firmware. If you're having issues with your NB9W, talk to the people you bought it from or Netcomm. You didn't buy it from Adam, they have NO responsibility whatsoever to repair your hardware. |
posted 2008-Aug-15, 11pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-15, 11pm AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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Netcomm have sent me an older firmware "NB9W_C201-S300NCM-C09_R10". With this firmware I have not been able to replicate the above issue. PPP just jumps back on as it should. |
posted 2008-Aug-16, 12pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-16, 1pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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Thank you Mr Nanoband, That is a better response and analysis of the problem than I have been able to get talking to anyone at Netcomm thus far. I believe this individual has been replaced :) Your contact may have handed the ropes over to his new replacement in the last week he was an employee and hence at no stage was that position vacant. It would be nice if this individual would make contact with the various people that were involved in the NB9W beta Test program, Especially since there are clearly outstanding issues that need to be resolved. the NB9W sends an PPPoE Initiation (PADI) and gets an offer (PADO). It then sends a PADR selecting which BRAS it wants to talk to, and waits patiently for a PADS. However there is a flood of other offers (PADOs) coming in from other BRAS, and gives up after receiving a further four PADOs. It would then be a timing thing. If the PADS comes in (i.e. the BRAS responds) before the NB9W receives four other PADOs from the other BRAS then all is sweat – everything works. However, if it doesn't then its game over. I don't pretend to know how this stuff works, but to me it seems that this is a problem in the firmware with the way the PPP Negotiation is handled. Shouldn't the modem wait for the appropriate PADS once it's sent the PADR and completely ignore other PADO's until a default timeout has occurred? At which point it can attempt the process again with a different offer? |
posted 2008-Aug-18, 10am AEST
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User #55710 2377 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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It would be nice if this individual would make contact with the various people that were involved in the NB9W beta Test program, Actually I'll take the blame for that, sorry. When C04_R01 was released publically in January this year, the beta program ceased. Maybe I should have sent an email to that effect. To address your statement, you're just about to write – It would be nice to fix every single bug no mater how small prior to release, but this is not physically nor commercial feasible. I don't pretend to know how this stuff works, but to me it seems that this is a problem in the firmware with the way the PPP Negotiation is handled. Shouldn't the modem wait for the appropriate PADS once it's sent the PADR and completely ignore other PADO's until a default timeout has occurred? At which point it can attempt the process again with a different offer? Just curious myself, I had a quick two minute look at the code. The NB9W runs pppd 1.4.2 so the code is freely available, or you can request a copy under GPL from NetComm. There is a timeout in the code Just checked your timestamps, and it looked like your NB9W gave up in just over 1 second. It could explain now why you get two PADOs from BRAS 00:1a:e3:1f:f8:1b – the last one if left in the buffer as it times out? I wonder if there is a problem in the timing (i.e the 5 second time is actually much shorter) which is not uncommon when things get ported to a different CPU platforms? You don't happen to have a log or two of C09_R10 working fine, but with PPPdebug turned on? I would be curious to see the offers it receives vs timestamps. The C04_R0x code is based on Broadcom release 3.10. The earlier C09_R10 was based on 3.06 code. Broadcom is normally the responsible entity in porting the pppd code to the BCM6348 in the NB9W long with most of the base platform (reference design), but its possible there was a patch applied to 3.06, than wasn't applied to 3.10, if in fact the two versions do behave differently. There are two separate engineering bodies, one for the NB6 series and the other for the NB9W series, both relying on the Broadcom code like many other modem manufacturers around the world. |
posted 2008-Aug-18, 1pm AEST
edited 2008-Aug-18, 1pm AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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Here is a spanner in the works! I just got home and my modem is once again dropping PPP. I confirm that I am running "NB9W_C201-S300NCM-C09_R10", supplied by Netcomm tech support. |
posted 2008-Aug-18, 6pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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You don't happen to have a log or two of C09_R10 working fine, but with PPPdebug turned on? Unfortunately I don't. I have only seen this problem personally once with the C09_R10 firmware, and I did not pay much attention to it at the time as I was in the Middle of testing another issue. As MrG33 is now reporting this problem is occurring with the C09_R10 version, I suspect that this is a long standing issue in the firmware that has only become apparent in more recent times with Adam Internet's Network Expansion and in particular the addition of at least 1 if not 2 BRAS to the Network. Just checked your timestamps, and it looked like your NB9W gave up in just over 1 second. It could explain now why you get two PADOs from BRAS 00:1a:e3:1f:f8:1b – the last one if left in the buffer as it times out? I've had a closer look at the logs from that day, there's nearly a 9 hour period where the modem is continually attempting to re-establish the PPP session, and I haven't found another instance where 2 PADO's are received from a single BRAS (assuming I know what I'm looking at), so I think that is an isolated co-incidental case. I am quite happy to make the full day's log available to you to have a look at (with relevant times indicated) to try and isolate the problem. Please PM me with an email address and I'll send it through. I know I and many others would be extremely appreciative. |
posted 2008-Aug-18, 9pm AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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Once again I lost PPP last night. I have not been able to find where to turn on the PPP debug in C09_R10. I can not find it in WAN like the most recent firmware. My logs are limited and I can only get the latest hour or so. is there a way to increase this? |
posted 2008-Aug-19, 8am AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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Ok, time to throw a cat amongst the pigeons... I have Adam ADSL2+ and Optus ADSL2+ and I also get the loss off PPP but not sync issue, but only on Adam. I have tested this with a Billion 5102s, a Netgear NB9WMAXX and a Siemens 4200. They only drop PPP on Adam, not on the Optus connection. I have tested all three modems on both connections. PPP drops on average between 12 and 24 hrs and will not reconnect, forcing me to power cycle the modem to regain connection. On all three modems the sync and activity lights remain solid, indicating the connection has not been lost, however no traffic flows on either Communitynet or to the internet. I have the debug logs for my Netgear if required and I have tested multiple firmware versions on the 4200 and Netgear. I don't know what to make of this issue and until now I have been just to lazy to call support for help. |
posted 2008-Aug-21, 8am AEST
edited 2008-Aug-21, 8am AEST
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User #55710 2377 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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Billion 5102s, a Netgear NB9WMAXX and a Siemens 4200. Interesting. So PPP will not reconnect on all of the above modems? The NB9WMAXX is a Broadcom BCM6358 processor running BCM3.10 code from Broadcom. The Siemens 4200, as I understand it is a TI AR7 processor. It runs embedded linux and pppd, possibly the same version (or containing the same 'bug') but it comes from TI. But the Billion 5102 is the most interesting. I believe it has a Trendchip processor, but I'm lead to believe they don't run embedded linux, but their own proprietary code (It fits into a smaller memory footprint). My old boss in Adelaide has been a long time Adam user and told me the issue in casual conversation a couple of weeks ago. Like you, he hadn't worried about doing anything. He had an previous modem (I though he said NB5, but later assumed that was NB6 as it runs Broadcom code) that use to do it, but he would just restart it when he comes to use it next. However he has just got AdamTalk and a NB9WMAXX, so now when it disconnects and won't reconnect, it is effecting his AdamTalk line. AusArcher's logs show that the first time the NB9W tries to reconnect, it never gets a PADS as part of PPPoE discovery (as his snippets in this thread). However, after this the NB9W tries again, it does successfully get a PADS, sends a LCP ConfReq but never receives a ConfAck back. It tries this three times, then disconnects and starts the process again. It appears to keep trying and repeats this indefinitely. It's hard to tell without WAN side logs, what is happening. There also appears to be a bit of confusion during PPPoE discovery after a while. You get PADTs being sent from the CPE and the BRAS, PADS being received when the PADR was send during the previous discovery session. |
posted 2008-Aug-21, 10am AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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I've been trying various things to see if I could fix this myself. I cant read the modem error logs very well, but I didn't think it mattered very much if it happens to three different modems. Ive experimented with all the different profiles on the Billion, and a few on the NB9 all to no avail. I was going to try setting up a D-link router as the auth device in full bridge to see if that helps the situation any, but I'm really just trying stuff until I find something that works. Ive been avoiding the d-link router as I know this will make Communitynet almost impossible to setup but I might try it just to see if the PPP issues stop. I thought for a long while it was the Billion getting packet flooded and locking up until I got the Optus DSL and was able to test with the 4200. Now that I have the NB9 I cant see anything besides a DSLAM issue or Gateway auth causing this issue. I cant say I'm an expert with DSLAMs or Gateways though, so who knows. It's all just guesswork and experimentation at this point. |
posted 2008-Aug-21, 11am AEST
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User #242260 13 posts
Participant
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It's hard to tell without WAN side logs, what is happening. When speaking with Adam they tell me that they can not see my modem trying to re authenticate. Is that what you were asking? I have been emailing Netcomm the whole time, but they have not been any help. Referring me back to Adam, saying the problem is at their end. It's always easiest to pass the buck onto the third party. I guess if Netcomm and Adam were talking they would blame it on me... |
posted 2008-Aug-21, 6pm AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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I do have one problem however, that is between every 6-12 hours I lose PPP After posting the following in the DSL Hardware section I was made aware of this post. Just lately I have had numerous repeated failures of my NB9W. I have found the following during my investigations. Under Status > pppoe_8_35 Diagnostics Test PPP server connection "Fail" Test the assigned IP address "Fail" Ping default gateway: "Fail" Ping primary Domain Name Server: "Fail" Up until recently this particular problem has never occurred but it seems to be making up for lost time with a vengeance. When this problem first occurred I rang ADAM (after I rebooted my modem several times with no success) and they told that me my internet connection was fine from their end up to the exchange but they were unable to see my modem. ADAM supplies Netcomm modem/router units but does not supply NB9W's unfortunately so were they were unable to help me with any technical advice on my NB9W. ADAM did suggest a factory reset but due to port forwarding, VOIP programing and other settings I was reluctant to do so as I did not fancy losing this information. I then carried out the various tests according to the procedures listed on the NB9W status page then rebooted the modem and everything worked fine again. I have had to follow the above procedure now every time now to get back on line. (Rebooting does not work) My NB9W will not reset until the above procedure is carried out I'm using : Software Version: C201-S300NCM-C09_R10 Bootloader (CFE) Version: 1.0.37-0.7 Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 11am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-16, 11am AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Has anyone else logged it with Help Desk. I have just spoken to David at ADAM's help desk and David assures me this is a Telstra problem and nothing can be done by ADAM to solve this problem. I have since forwarded an email to the help desk so at least this problem will have a ticket number. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 2pm AEST
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User #160260 636 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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ADAM did suggest a factory reset Don't bother, I have tried this many times, I have even done a factory reset on the ATA. I have tried different cables, disabling wifi, removing communitynet settings and anything else I can think of, no difference at all. Only conclusion I can come to is its a firmware issue so until a new firmware comes out I am resetting my modem every night after dinner. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 2pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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I have just spoken to David at ADAM's help desk and David assures me this is a Telstra problem and nothing can be done by ADAM to solve this problem. I would like to know how this is possibly a Telstra problem? Given that I am not on a Telstra port and a large number of people experiencing this problem are not on a Telstra ports either. It also can't be a line problem as we are all getting Line Sync ok, it's Just the PPP Session that's not connecting. My Money is on a firmware fault, but until we can provide both Adam and Netcomm with sufficient information to reliably reproduce the fault, I'm not hopeful of getting a resolution. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 2pm AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Anyone got any more logs? What Aus-Archer has provided is with Enable PPP Debug Mode ticked in the WAN Interface. Mr Nanoband I have an NB9W with similar problems. Could you please explain how to set the NB9W logging up to get the relevant information. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 3pm AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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I would like to know how this is possibly a Telstra problem? Given that I am not on a Telstra port and a large number of people experiencing this problem are not on a Telstra ports either. I tried explaining this to David but unfortunately he would not listen or was uninterested in this particular problem. I used to be with Internode and I NEVER experienced this problem whilst I was with them. I then changed to ADAM approx 2 ½ months ago and my first experience of this problem was on the 3rd of September. My NB9Wfirmware is the same as I had when I was with Internode. I have had my NB9W since 7th Jan 2008. This problem does not appear to be widespread and appears it is mainly restricted to ADAM. I think it is something else other than a firmware issue as it is affecting other modems as well as Netcomm's. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 3pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
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This problem does not appear to be widespread and appears it is mainly restricted to ADAM. I believe that it is widespread and getting to be more so. As I mentioned in your other thread, I have seen reports from users on both iiNet and TPG experiencing the same problem, it is not restricted to Adam. I think it is something else other than a firmware issue as it is affecting other modems as well as Netcomm's. Given that the problem appears to be with the PPP connection process and the order of received packets and timeouts involved in the negotiation process, the most likely answer is a bug in the firmware where it does not wait for the appropriate replies before timing out the connection attempt. There are any number of variables in any ISP's network that could appear to make the problem more prevalent for one ISP than another, however, it is certainly not unique to Adam and as such is most likely to be caused by a firmware fault. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 4pm AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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most likely to be caused by a firmware fault. If it is firmware how do you then explain that it has taken 8 months to show up on my NB9W ? |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 4pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
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If it is firmware how do you then explain that it has taken 8 months to show up on my NB9W ? I can't be certain, a lot of this is guesswork but, possibly changes in the ISP Networks that you've been connected to, particularly the addition of PPP Servers to service connection requests. I did not see this problem at all in the time I was using the C09_R10 firmware, I didn't encounter it until I was Beta Testing the C211-S306NCM-C04_R02 firmware version back in January, which to my knowledge was the first time Netcomm was made aware of the problem. I have now seen reports of it happening in the last couple of months with people still using the older C09_R10 firmware. I suspect that it is a bug that has been in the firmware for a long time, but has only been uncovered more recently as ISP's have been expanding their networks and as a result, have possibly been providing more replies to the modem when it's negotiating the PPP Session, causing it to timeout early due to excessive unexpected packets. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 5pm AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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I have now seen reports of it happening in the last couple of months with people still using the older C09_R10 firmware. I suspect that it is a bug that has been in the firmware for a long time, but has only been uncovered more recently as ISP's have been expanding their networks and as a result, have possibly been providing more replies to the modem when it's negotiating the PPP Session, causing it to timeout early due to excessive unexpected packets. I am one of those using the older C09_R10 firmware that you refer to and that firmware has up until now has served me well. My motto is if it ain't broke don't try to fix it. If the ISP's change things when they expand their networks surely they must carry some responsibility to ensure compatibility of their changes with the current firmware that is in place already ? But no they point the finger at everyone else and try to blame fix on anyone except themselves. The truth is this problem did not exist before they changed things then it is someone else's problem not theirs (Even though they created it) but has only been uncovered more recently as ISP's have been expanding their networks and as a result, have possibly been providing more replies to the modem when it's negotiating the PPP Session, causing it to timeout early due to excessive unexpected packets. But no ISP is admitting to making these changes you talk about let alone taking responsibility of carrying out these changes. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 6pm AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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If the ISP's change things when they expand their networks surely they must carry some responsibility to ensure compatibility of their changes with the current firmware that is in place already ? Not at all, That's what standards are for. They would deploy to the standard and then test that the modems that they officially supply and support work, The NB9W is not one that they would necessarily test as it's not a modem supplied by Adam. However the theory is that it should work because of the standards, if it doesn't, chances are there's a problem with that modem, or more likely, a component of the modem's firmware. In this case the PPP component. But no they point the finger at everyone else and try to blame fix on anyone except themselves. In this case, you got an odd response from a helpdesk person blaming Telstra, which doesn't make sense. But near the very beginning of this thread you've got Bradley requesting a guide he can follow to reproduce the problem so he can try and figure out what's going on. As far as I know to this point, no one has stepped up and been able to provide that information. I'd suggest that those two things should make it pretty clear this is a strange issue for which no one really knows the cause. The truth is this problem did not exist before they changed things then it is someone else's problem not theirs (Even though they created it) If a modem was working as it should be, then the types of changes we are talking about here would not affect it's functionality at all. In fact all of these sorts of network changes/upgrades are designed to improve the reliability, performance and redundancy of the system, not hamper it. Again, there would be a standard way that a modem should handle the additional PPP Servers and the responses received from them. It seems all do, with the exception of the NB9W as I've not seen complaints relating to this issue for any other modem and Adam. That again indicates the NB9W as the problem, not the network changes. But no ISP is admitting to making these changes you talk about let alone taking responsibility of carrying out these changes. It would be silly to think that ever growing ISP's are not forever upgrading, tweaking and changing their networks to provide improvements for their customers, both in performance and reliability. There have been a number of threads created (/forum-replies-archive.cfm/976904.html) over time when these changes to the network were made. When each of the new BRAS came into service they brought with them new IP Address Ranges, which people had problems with for a long time because of third Party webmasters not maintaining an accurate list of valid IP Address Ranges. This is not Adam's Fault and they can in no way take responsibility for those third parties failings. The same applies to this problem, it is the modem failing because it appears to trip over on receiving multiple replies from the available PPP Servers. Adam have improved their network, as we would expect them to be doing, those improvements have shown a flaw in a third party product, it is the Third Parties responsibility to fix it. |
posted 2008-Sep-16, 11pm AEST
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User #32083 1425 posts
ISP Representative
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to me it seems that this is a problem in the firmware with the way the PPP Negotiation is handled. I'm not certain if that's the _cause_ of the problem, but the modem should cope fine with the multiple PADO packets. The PPPoE RFC permits it, and we've been running that way for years. From the RFC: (section 5) The steps consist of the Host broadcasting an Initiation packet, one or more Access Concentrators sending Offer packets, the Host sending a unicast Session Request packet and the selected Access Concentrator sending a Confirmation packet. (section 5.3) Since the PADI was broadcast, the Host may receive more than one PADO. The Host looks through the PADO packets it receives and chooses one. The choice can be based on the AC-Name or the Services offered. The Host then sends one PADR packet to the Access Concentrator that it has chosen. Now, historically, we've not had any troubles with modems implementing this behaviour correctly. I'm not sure if that's the case with this issue or not at this time. Certainly for it to pop up in the last month is curious, as there has been many PPP servers for a long time. I'd be more inclined to think it's a firmware issue – new hardware tends to mean a new port of the PPP software running on the modem, which leaves the door open for new and interesting bugs. If the ISP's change things when they expand their networks surely they must carry some responsibility to ensure compatibility of their changes with the current firmware that is in place already ? That's quite correct – it's not in our interests to break existing customer's equipment with our network changes. We do quite a lot of internal planning and testing. Naturally, we can't and don't test every CPE, just those we support. The truth is this problem did not exist before they changed things I'm not sure that's been established at this point. See below for when we last added a PPP server. no ISP is admitting to making these changes you talk about I don't think that's particularly fair – check out this: http://adam.com.au/outages_s It's the notification of the last time we added a PPP server. That was in May – there's been no additional PPP servers since then, so I'd say it's pointing towards a bug in the firmware at this point. Regardless, we definitely do aim to keep customers "in the loop" – it's one of the reasons we have the outage notices on our website. |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 12am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-17, 12am AEST
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User #9621 3326 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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I've had the same issue as the OP but I've only had my modem for less than 12 hours. Both times was right after I changed some port forward settings or I was mucking around with QoS so I don't know if it was me or not yet :-) What I DID notice though, is that the DNS servers changes from the automatic 122.x.x.x to the ip address of the modem.. I guess its a little hard to do dns lookups to itself once it loses auth? I'll find out if it's me or not over the next few days.. Edit: I'm using an NB9WMAXX. Previously using Billion 7402R2 without any issues at all so I know it's not a problem on Adam's end. |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 2am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-17, 2am AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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If a modem was working as it should be, then the types of changes we are talking about here would not affect it's functionality at all. In fact all of these sorts of network changes/upgrades are designed to improve the reliability, performance and redundancy of the system, not hamper it. Again, there would be a standard way that a modem should handle the additional PPP Servers and the responses received from them. It seems all do, with the exception of the NB9W as I've not seen complaints relating to this issue for any other modem and Adam. That again indicates the NB9W as the problem, not the network changes. You must have missed 'Lazyjones' post in this thread on the 2008-Aug-21, 8:10 am Ok, time to throw a cat amongst the pigeons... I have Adam ADSL2+ and Optus ADSL2+ and I also get the loss off PPP but not sync issue, but only on Adam. I have tested this with a Billion 5102s, a Netgear NB9WMAXX and a Siemens 4200. They only drop PPP on Adam, not on the Optus connection. I have tested all three modems on both connections. PPP drops on average between 12 and 24 hrs and will not reconnect, forcing me to power cycle the modem to regain connection. On all three modems the sync and activity lights remain solid, indicating the connection has not been lost, however no traffic flows on either Communitynet or to the internet. I have the debug logs for my Netgear if required and I have tested multiple firmware versions on the 4200 and Netgear. I don't know what to make of this issue and until now I have been just to lazy to call support for help. |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 7am AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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Yup, I'm still seeing the problem, only with my Adam connection, and I have tested the Optus Seimens 4200 for 3 days with the same results. I was using the Billion 5102s since I joined Adam, and gave up complaining about the dropouts a few months after seeing this issue occur. After speaking to support initially they said it was a internal wiring fault, and so I went and had the house rewired with just a single cat5 to the main socket, 2M below the LUCA on the side of the house. Oh, and I had a central filter installed just to be sure that it wasn't caused by equipment interference. Needless to say that this didn't fix the problem and at that point I gave up and just put up with powercycling the modem. The Adam connection appears to be either not seeing the disconnection, and therefore not initiating a reconnect, or locking up at the port, both which would be more likely to be DSLSM issues with software rather than a Tel$tra interconnect issue. Then again I have no knowledge of the Adam network to be able to say for sure. |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 8am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-17, 8am AEST
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User #149679 680 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
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Oh, and I had a central filter installed just to be sure that it wasn't caused by equipment interference. Needless to say that this didn't fix the problem and at that point I gave up and just put up with powercycling the modem. In my case power cycling my NB9W does not fix the problem. I have to carry out the test procedures listed on the NB9W status page, reboot the modem and then everything works fine again. (until the next time). Does "ADAM direct" mean you are on an ADAM DSlam ? I'm on a Telstra DSlam. |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 9am AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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Yes. Adam ADSL2+ rather than a resold Tel$tra DSL1 connection. We may be talking about different issues here then... |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 9am AEST
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User #32083 1425 posts
ISP Representative
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Does "ADAM direct" mean you are on an ADAM DSlam ? Yes, it does. I'm on a Telstra DSlam. Right – in that case, it's different equipment both at the exchange, and in our network also. There's been no new equipment added to our network with regards to Telstra Wholesale-based services for some time, certainly not within the timeframe you are talking. I don't think this is a related problem to that being reported in this thread (NB9 + AdamDirect). As per Brad's post back on page one – can we get more details (logs etc) so that we can try to diagnose/reproduce the fault? With regards to users on AdamDirect with NB9/NB9Ws: I've spoken to Brad about this thread and so far we've not received anything. My email address is in my user profile, We'd be interested in the following from anybody who is experiencing this problem: - Username |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 9am AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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PM sent. I can test with all 3 modems. Update: The NB9WMAXX unfortunately doesn't seem to store more than 100 lines of log. There is also no way to have the modem dump this logfile to a local file. What I had to do was collect the log info every 10 minutes of so and append it to a text file by hand. I disabled CommunityNet and watched the modem till it dropped, after about 2hrs (luckily because this can sometimes stay stable for more than 12hrs). I've sent the logfile to Sam and hope to get a response shortly. This I guess is the most interesting part of the log, when the PPP connection terminates, again with no loss of sync light at any stage: Sep 18 03:56:42 daemon info pppd[541]: LCP terminated by peer etc, etc as it tries to reestablish connection. Link Control Protocol loss means no PPP connection is possible. From this point on the modem never re-establishes LCP/PPP connection. |
posted 2008-Sep-17, 10am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-18, 4am AEST
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User #9621 3326 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
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Going on my earlier post, I've noticed that if I happen to lose auth (PPP) and it reconnects, the NB9WMAXX automatically sets the DNS servers to the IP of my modem (192.168.1.1). This causes ppp to remain on and CommunityNet to work, but I can't actually use Internet because it can't do DNS lookups. Manually assigning the IP addresses seems to have resolved the issue, but its entirely early days for me and I would strongly recommend against this (until the issue has been properly diagnosed) Edit: For the NB9WMAXX you can use a Syslog server and then tell the modem to log all output to that server. I haven't tried to set this up yet though. |
posted 2008-Sep-19, 12am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-19, 12am AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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Yeh, Communitynet dies with my PPP. Ive tried setting dns manualy in the modem, to no avail. |
posted 2008-Sep-19, 2am AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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For the NB9WMAXX you can use a Syslog server and then tell the modem to log all output to that server. I haven't tried to set this up yet though. I have this setup for my NB9W and that is how I collect all of my logs for it. It works perfectly. |
posted 2008-Sep-19, 9am AEST
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User #99292 276 posts
Forum Regular
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My Modem Lost the PPP Session today at about 13:37. I have gathered the required information and forwarded it on to Sam. Hopefully this will be helpful in resolving the problem. |
posted 2008-Sep-19, 11pm AEST
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User #20730 410 posts
Forum Regular
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This is an interesting thread. I am on TPG with the NB6+4w and also have regular drop outs with my connection My service is TPG wholesale Telstra ADSL1 Berkeley Vale NSW exchange Now I know this isn't an adam issue, but since there seems to be debate whether this is adam/modem/telstra issue thought this might be of interest. |
posted 2008-Sep-20, 6am AEST
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User #248807 6 posts
Participant
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I'm still seeing the problem, only with my Adam connection Same here, on different Adam Direct connections, across town. It's pretty well been like this for some time. After putting up with it I got the jack of Adam's ADSL2 when a few staff from my larger customers (who I put onto Adam) started wondering if I was gouging them because of the need for me to fix their ADSL all the time! So I moved one of them to Internode (paying the transfer costs myself to show these smalltimers I was genuine about ending their frequent ADSL problems) and bingo – problem solved! Then I moved another to Internode & the "Losing PPP, Sync Remains" problems never have re-occured. Same location, computer, modem, filters, wiring, etc, different ADSL2 ISP (just changed username and password in the same modem). Since then it's been my mantra and over time I've moved 5 home users off Adam Direct and onto Internode or Optus and now the office connections of their work places are turning away from Adam too. Fixing ADSL connections isn't what I do for a crust, but having happy customers & their staff with what I do, is. I have no knowledge of the Adam network to be able to say for sure. The surest fix I've found for this problem is to not be connected to Adam's DSLAMs. Why this is the case I really don't care anymore and if it is modem firmware, then Internode & Optus (at least in my experience) obviously do something or know something better that this problem doesn't happen. I don't want to learn about the deep intricacies of PPPoE, DSLAM, BRAS etc etc, that's what my customers and I pay ISPs to know about and I've never had to bother with that deep layer of knowledge with any other ISP, just Adam. That's what standards are for. Funny. Wasn't it Tanenbaum who said something along the lines of "The good thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from" ? |
posted 2008-Sep-20, 11am AEST
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User #193691 43 posts
Forum Regular
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Im on Adam Direct ADSL2+ (previously TW at my previous address) and I have been having "dropouts" ever since moving into our current house. Im using a Billion 5200 modem in Full-Bridge mode to a D-Link DIR-655 Gigabit+802.11n Router – I bought the Billion thinking it was my Siemens SpeedStream 4200 causing the probem. My dropouts happen every 24 – 48 hours and when the do all my gear thinks it still has a net connection but cant actually get any data. The ADSL light on my billion stays on and if I log into my router it is still showing a connection with the relevant details. To resolve it all I have to do is log on to the router and hit disconnect, then connect and im back online. This wouln't be such a big deal if I wasn't reliant on VoIP (engin) and didn't have a mate in the US trying to access his Hava TV device located at my place. I finally got sick of it and called Adam today – they advised that the S/N was good and I was only about 2kms from the exchange. They wanted me to connect the modem direct to my PC to see if it made any diff etc and I refused as I have a server and a bunch of gear (eg voip) that needs a constant net connection. Finally they decided to set my connection to a "safer profile" – i've no idea what that does but the lady said it might help. |
posted 2008-Sep-23, 1pm AEST
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User #249279 21 posts
Participant
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hi all, the only fix i have found is to uncheck all the other modulations in the modem exept for G.Dmt. Havent had a dropout for 24 hours. Im on adam direct ADSL 2+...............does adam choose what your line modulation is ???? (ie)G.Dmt cheers |
posted 2008-Sep-23, 1pm AEST
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User #15346 3632 posts
ISP Representative
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The surest fix I've found for this problem is to not be connected to Adam's DSLAMs. Why this is the case I really don't care anymore and if it is modem firmware, then Internode & Optus (at least in my experience) obviously do something or know something better that this problem doesn't happen. I don't want to learn about the deep intricacies of PPPoE, DSLAM, BRAS etc etc, that's what my customers and I pay ISPs to know about and I've never had to bother with that deep layer of knowledge with any other ISP, just Adam. We do it for redundancy and to reduce our costs. If we had only two BRASes, then to cover the situation of failure if one failed, and to allow the people on the failed BRAS to get back online, we'd only be able to run each of them up to a maximum of 50% utilisation. A "big" BRAS, necessary to carry 10s of thousands of customers' connections can easily cost $50K or more, so you end up having in the order of $50K's worth of unused and unusable capacity sitting around most of the time, just to cover a failure situation. Great if you have a failure, and while they happen, they're fundamentally quite rare. It's a lot of unused capacity sitting around to cover something that doesn't happen that often. OTOH, if you have 6 BRASes, as we currently do, and you're covering a single point failure of one of them, then you only need to preserve 20% available capacity on the remaining 5 to be able to have everybody back online if one of them fails (i.e. 100% of the failed BRAS divided by 5). Only having to keep 20% capacity available on each BRAS to cover one of them failing is much more cost effective than having to keep 50% capacity available on a single one to cover the other single one failing. The consequences of a BRAS failure are also better – a much smaller number of customers are effected by the failure than if you were to only have two. Also, as we aren't putting very large numbers of customers on each BRAS, they're smaller, and therefore cheaper. So the cost per percentage point of keeping the 20% verses the 50% on much larger BRASes is lower too. If our capital expenditure costs are lower, that helps us keep the prices of our services lower. The RFCs allow us to do what we're doing. I haven't looked into this issue to deeply, however it would seem that it is the ADSL modem firmware that is causing the problems. |
posted 2008-Sep-23, 9pm AEST
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User #243215 52 posts
Participant
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I can replicate this issue on 3 modems, all of which work 100% on an Optus DSL2 DSLAM at the same location. My last uptime for the same NB9WMAXX on the Optus connection is 58 days. |
posted 2008-Sep-24, 12am AEST
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User #97643 1094 posts
ISP Representative
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They wanted me to connect the modem direct to my PC to see if it made any diff etc and I refused as I have a server and a bunch of gear (eg voip) that needs a constant net connection. Whilst it is understood that you may require your current setup for your server etc to function, how do you suppose we isolate the fault, if you can't help our help desk help you? I know it is a pain to move gear around, and I've had to do it myself – testing out some Cisco IP phones, Epygi IPBX solutions, not to mention moving things on different sides of a NAT but at the end of the day, helping us determine if it's your equipment (CPE, the bridged network or something else internal) or somewhere between your premises and our end will be the quickest way to a solution. If you are still totally against helping us help you and you give fee for service approval (in the event that a fault is found with your side of the NBP, you'll be liable for costs associated with call out of a contractor or Telstra), then we'll be more than happy to help you out. The "safer profile" that our CSO would have suggested would have set your line to a more resilient setting. This would allow for more error correction and aid in preventing drops in line sync, however, will likely offer little to no improvement, if the issue lies somewhere in your equipment. Our CSOs are there to help you but ultimately, how effective their help will be, is entirely up to you. - Dy |
posted 2008-Sep-24, 9am AEST
edited 2008-Sep-24, 9am AEST
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User #193691 43 posts
Forum Regular
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your server etc to function, how do you suppose we isolate the fault, if you can't help our help desk help you? As I clearly pointed out to the Adam Rep (who was very helpful) my current gear was working perfectly when I was using Adam DSL via Telstra Wholesale, the only thing that has changed is my address and the DSLAM now belongs to Adam. Prior to my previous adress I lived in Melbourne 1.5 years ago and had been using my SpeedStream 4200 on Optus (Telsra Wholesale) also with any dropouts for months at a time. FWIW there is no other gear connected to our phone line and no extension cables etc (we use voip exclusively), we are about 2.6kms from the exchange, our downlink attenuation is 39db and connection speed is 7600kbps/920kbps. djOS |
posted 2008-Sep-24, 5pm AEST
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User #97643 1094 posts
ISP Representative
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As I clearly pointed out to the Adam Rep (who was very helpful) my current gear was working perfectly when I was using Adam DSL via Telstra Wholesale, the only thing that has changed is my address and the DSLAM now belongs to Adam. The technology delivering the service has now changed. Is your modem set to use PPPoE or PPPoA? On AdamDirect, it should be set to PPPoE. It's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility for a change between TW and AD to cause minor issues such as those you are experiencing. Prior to my previous adress I lived in Melbourne 1.5 years ago and had been using my SpeedStream 4200 on Optus (Telsra Wholesale) also with any dropouts for months at a time. Hardware can and does fail over time. Not saying yours has but it's always a possibility. As above, try setting the modem's protocol to PPPoE and see if this helps with your loss of PPP at all. The point in my previous post stands in that, if you are positive the issue is not on your end of the NBP and are happy to approve Fee For Service, then I'm sure our faults team will be happy to get this off for further investigation for you. - Dy |
posted 2008-Sep-25, 10am AEST
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User #193691 43 posts
Forum Regular
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As above, try setting the modem's protocol to PPPoE and see if this helps with your loss of PPP at all. It is running PPoE and has been ever since I moved to Adam Direct. Hardware can and does fail over | |