Whirlpool

I've been an iiNet user for over 4 years now, and every six months or so I suddenly lose 6mb on my connection. It's not a gradual decline – it happens suddenly overnight.

Usually it's sync's and maintains around 19mb all the time (and has done so for over 4 years) but once I hit that 6 month point I jump back to 13mb – which happened to me again a couple of days ago.

In the past I have rung up each time, and each time they try the usual power cycle the modem, port rebuilding (nothing happens), then a few other things are tried and whammo my connection goes back to 19mb. I'm not sure exactly what they do but I truly think there is nothing wrong with my setup as I am still using the same modem and nothing has changed internally with my phone lines etc

Anyway, upon ringing them today they tried the port rebuild again (nothing happened) then the lady on the other end said that they no longer offer support to connections if the simply lose speed. As the lady I spoke to refused to help me any further I asked for a senior tech to call me back to rectify this issue. Then I get an email ½ hour later from the same lady saying they only support speeds up to 1,500kps and therefore she wasn't able to escalate this call.

And I thought this was an ADSL2+ service that iiNet are offering!

I know I shouldn't be complaining with good speeds as it is, but I do feel this is a degraded service now and that I have lost a good chunk of my internet speed.

If iiNet are not prepared to even look at this situation, then I am prepared to look at other ISP's.

Anyone else come across this? Anyone from iiNet care to comment?

Brown2Hornet writes...

Then I get an email ½ hour later from the same lady saying they only support speeds up to 1,500kps and therefore she wasn't able to escalate this call.

That's not true one bit.

Call them back and speak to someone else. iiNet support is a bit hit and miss sometimes.

However the only problem I think you will have is proving that you were on 19mbit before hand.

Very true Frey – should have taken some screen shots of my modem stats!!

Here's the copy of her email as well...

--

Hello xxx,

Thank you for your call.

Unfortunately this wasn't a justified callback as we only support speeds upto 1,500kbps.
And therefore i wasn't able to escalate this call.

If there are any further queries, please feel free to call us on 13 22 58.

Kindest Regards,
xxx

Brown2Hornet writes...

Unfortunately this wasn't a justified callback as we only support speeds upto 1,500kbps.
And therefore i wasn't able to escalate this call.

Wow... That is a pathetic example of customer service right there if I have ever seen one.

I would recommend calling and speaking to a manager or just calling the TIO.

This sounds like a difficult thing to pinpoint.

If the port rebuild did nothing then the problem may be inside your house. Maybe something happens to your street's cabling. It could be any number of things. Modem firmware bug? Faulty filter? Who knows.

Maybe it's not so much a case of them not caring but a case of not being able to do anything. There's nothing the average CSR can do beyond a port rebuild and have a look at your line. They could lodge a fault but it seems to fix itself so that'd either go nowhere or cost you money (in the 1in1000 chance a tech would actually be sent out).

The whole "1.5mbit guarantee" seems to be a bit of a grey area as Frey said, it all depends on who you speak to. I guess some people stick to it as even the noisiest of lines should be able to pull off a stable 1.5mbit connection. Anything above that on a 60db line is lucky. Still, this is going offtrack since yours is nowhere near that.

It could always be worse. It could be permanent.

Charleston writes...

I would recommend calling and speaking to a manager or just calling the TIO.

Please don't go straight to the TIO, they will only tell you to go back and speak to iinet properly first, the TIO are after you've tried hard but can't get a result then they will help you out.

I'd count yourself luck really. I only ever synced at 6Mbps, then all of a sudden dropped down to 4Mbps.

Check to see if your SCM has been set back to standard

i lost 14mb speed for 3-4months at a guess.
rebuild / change of line all did nothing
out of nowhere in the last week it somehow raised 6-8mb
still 6mb off my speed when i joined at the start of the year.

joined – 20+mb
3months later 6-8mb
3months later 14-15mb

all estimate speeds and cant be sure on the timeframe

another
/forum-replies.cfm?t=998256
and interesting to note 6mb drop

/que wicka waa waa porn music
*opps*
/que conspiracy tune doo doo doooooo do

Layer 1 to the DSLAM is via the ULL/LSS (copper line).

Now some sync issues are caused by issues in the copper line. Open short, interference etc.

The most likely cause of your fault is your modem. Remember your modem was built in a cheap south-east sweat shop electronics factory at the lowest possible cost. These things are built with dozens of functions however are under resourced and badly designed (meaning that if you use a lot of these functions together your bound to have problems).

Lastly irregular power supply causes a wealth of issues (including the one). Too many times you see devices failing, dropping sync, or retraining at different rates due to powersupply issues (they really drive you mad because often its the last thing you look at).

That said if the fault is in your line its a completely different matter.

Telstra however will refuse to repair the fault without detailed TDR testing from the ISP. The TDR (Time Domain Reflectometer) bounces a signal down the line. The length of time the signal takes to traverse line is combined with other information and the fault can be pinpointed within a few metres, which will usually correspond to a join or something on the cable run.

Now iiNet has TDR feature in their DSLAMs however Telstra requires the testing to be conducted from the far point of the line (your house, or NBP)

The problem is that iiNet has (as far as I know) no field staff and no portable TDRs (well none for customer testing at least).

The issue is one of cost. Imagine how much it costs to maintain a team of linesmen around the country at every location that iiNet sells ADSL2? Imagine the cost of having to send these people out to every layer 1 fault (when the speed is above 1.5mbps but not syncing at rate correspond to the class of the line – 9g for example).

The only providers that offer that sort of support are ones who provide ISDN over ULL or "premium" DSL services.

The message internally however is confused. I suspect you'll find that some of the iiNet reps are making automatic assumptions the fault is the ULL and consequently invoking the T&C of 1.5mbps minimum speed, thus avoiding the hassle of diagnosing and investigate issues that usually have more then one point of failure.

That said they probably should be engaging you in the troubleshooting process. Have you got an alternative modem to test with. Does fault occur on both. Have you checked your Power supply, can ascertain voltage/amp.

There are many things you can do, though as always it does help if you've got a $2,000 TDR in the garage.

Brown2Hornet writes...

Then I get an email ½ hour later from the same lady saying they only support speeds up to 1,500kps and therefore she wasn't able to escalate this call.

In the past Telstra Wholesale would provision ADSL based on the fact it could support 1500 Kbps, so in effect no ADSL provider can guarantee anything above this.

Intermittent issues are always the hardest to pin point and it seems like iiNet has done quite a bit of work so far to try and rectify the issue for you. However a lot is outside their control, such as the quality of the piece of copper between your premises and the exchange.

If this problem is caused by some type of incompatibility with your router and iiNet's DSLAMs (unlikely) then moving ISPs isn't really going to help. AFAIK other providers are using Ericsson and Huawei equipment so you'll be stuck in the same boat.

Best thing to do would be borrow a friends router and test it for a while, take note of the time of day when it happens and try to rule out everything you can that might cause the issue inside your premises.

edit: pretty much re-iterated chugs, read his post :P ^^^^^

chugs writes...

Telstra however will refuse to repair the fault without detailed TDR testing from the ISP.

telstra doesnt accept TDR's anymore

Thanks for all the info guys – appreciate it

Just to let you know, someone from iiNet has contacted me and they are going to look into the issue – so fingers crossed we can get this resolved once and for all.

Just to reply back to a few comments:

My SCM is still set on thrillseeker – always has been.

Tried a few modems to see if any change – billion, netgear, draytek. All the same result. Sticking with billion atm.

Although the line looks like the culprit – i find it hard to believe when this issue has been rectified on three separate occasions in the past with a simple phone call to iiNet. That's why I struggle to see why it's the line and when the pattern keeps repeating itself and it's fixed with iinet support looking at it remotely??

--

Big thanks to chugs as well – great explanation!! Looks like I need to save up and get one of those TDR's for the garage!!

Brown2Hornet writes...

That's why I struggle to see why it's the line and when the pattern keeps repeating itself and it's fixed with iinet support looking at it remotely??

Over time the DSLAM learns what your line is capable of and what it is not. If there is the occasional increase in noise on your line the dslam will "slow" down your connection, it does this to prevent dropout issues. A port rebuild will make the DSLAM loose these settings and thus your at the 19mbit. However over time the DSLAM learns that to increase the reliability of your line it drops a few buckets here and there. So there would be a problem on your line somewhere that's causing a temporary increase in line noise.

chugs writes...

The problem is that iiNet has (as far as I know) no field staff and no portable TDRs (well none for customer testing at least).

That's why they have a contract agreement with Vision Stream to provide this service.

Thanks Frey – makes sense now

Will keep you tabbed with iiNet

Brown2Hornet writes...

My SCM is still set on thrillseeker – always has been.

Change it.

Although the line looks like the culprit – i find it hard to believe when this issue has been rectified on three separate occasions in the past with a simple phone call to iiNet. That's why I struggle to see why it's the line and when the pattern keeps repeating itself and it's fixed with iinet support looking at it remotely??

Unless iinet logged a fault for you previously and sent a tech out, they did nothing to the line itself. I would say in that case your line is NOT the culprit.

Slick007 writes...

Change it.

Why? It's not going to make an iota of difference. If anything it will reduce his sync even further.

Brown2Hornet writes...

Usually it's sync's and maintains around 19mb all the time but once I hit that 6 month point I jump back to 13mb

If the dslam itself was simply learning your profile, then at 19mb you should see quite a lot of errors and lost packets shouldn't you?

When you do a speed test at 13mbit sync, vs 19mbit, what are the differences in actual download speed?

ps.
We drop from 6mbit to 3mbit quite frequently, during heavy rain. Unplug the modem and plug back in and it resyncs. I hope the dslam doesn't learn never to speed back up. Do any modems automatically resync yet?

GregAlex writes...

Do any modems automatically resync yet?

What do you mean by that?

Gangrene writes...

What do you mean by that?

There were several technologies that allowed modems to slow down AND speed up, depending on line conditions.

I can't remember the technology names off hand – but there's one technology that looks at the signal-noise-ratio over the past several minutes, and continually adjusted speed up or down to keep connected and highest speed possible. This was in conjunction with a 2nd technology for a very fast speed drop if there's sudden interference – again keeping you connected and then using the 1st technology to slowly come back up to speed when able.

What we have now is our modem disconnecting in bad line conditions (especially if on thrill seeker) and reconnect at a slower (more stable) speed. Naturally enough, that doesn't disconnect unless it can't maintain the speed... so it won't speed itself back up.

The technologies don't just keep us at a good speed given line conditions, they allow our modem to sync with very small signal-noise-ratio (so thrill seeker for everyone) while not sacrificing stability

If anyone knows more about these, and if any ISP is going to implement it, I'd be interested in learning more.

Just getting back to you gregalex,

Connection runs fine when normally running at 19mb – no errors or dropped packets and can dl at full 19mb

Same results also when it drops to 13mb

Thrillseeker hasn't been a problem

The drop in sync only happens once every six months and once fixed the connection is fine after that

Brown2Hornet writes...

The drop in sync only happens once every six months and once fixed the connection is fine after that

If it is happening now it will probably be because somewhere you line is getting wet/moisture and it degrading ability of the line to allocate a better ADSL range.

You could submit a line fault but because,even yourself has stated it is intermittent it is likely it will go missed by a technician checking the line.

Personally if I where you I would break open your pit and see if the water is pooling in there. There aren't many places water can get in, in the way telstra organize the cable runs. The most probable is your own pit.

Then you can just fix it so that water doesn't get in.

Well don't I feel like the biggest idiot on Earth – PROBLEM SOLVED!!

Turned out to be a faulty telephone cable between the wall socket and the modem in the end.

Something so simple... yet you end up trying everything else first!!

Anyway syncing beautifully again at 19mb again and a must give a very big thankyou to Rodney at iiNet. He managed to find the fault and was a absolute pleasure to deal with.

I must thank everyone else for their input on this thread as well – and don't forgot to check your cables in the future!

CASE CLOSED!

nice outcome :) Its usually something innocuous like that

I beleive their fault form actually asks if you have changed these cables too.