Whirlpool

It's here

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/

Thanks – Michael

Internode no longer unmeter ABC since they changed who hosts their content.

Michael Murray writes...

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/

Assume it's metered, although if you want to check use tcpview or something similar to see what ip address it's coming from and check it against http://www.internode.on.net/residential/tech_space/unmetered_content/ip_address_list/

I'm seeing lots of akamai – same deal as all ABC content, the majority has been moved from the abc's own servers to akamai and can't be unmetered. But occasionally u'll get lucky.

The ABC streaming content works and works well, and u get a small amount plus their websites (I think) unmetered – sounds like a fair compromise for tv on demand.

Dreamslayer writes...

Internode no longer unmeter ABC since they changed who hosts their content.

For the sake of clarity ... Internode still unmeter all of the ABC servers, the same as they've always done [since they started unmetering them].

The 'problem' is that the ABC have stopped hosting the content on their own servers, and shifted it over to Akamai, which means that Internode aren't able to unmeter it anymore.

OK thanks. When I first tried this site it said something like `this may use up your download quota unless your ISP makes it free' or words to that effect. I can't get that page again — I assume it has decided I have seen the startup page.

In any case it looks good.

Michael

I just watched some video, coming from 150.101.98.89.

That ip isn't here so you'd have to assume in this case it's metered.

Cheers

nooby writes...

I just watched some video, coming from 150.101.98.89.

That's an Akamai IP address. [One of many.]

That ip isn't here so you'd have to assume in this case it's metered.

It is.

If iinet has it for free maybe internode should look at it again so it can be unmetered as well.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/tv--radio/btvb-abc-unveils-sixchannel-internet-tv/2008/07/23/1216492539995.html

It can also be used through television and the ABC is working with internet service providers to get it excluded from download caps.

Sounds like they're still working with ISP's to find out what they need to make it unmetered.

sloany writes...

Sounds like they're still working with ISP's to find out what they need to make it unmetered.

Well if they stuck with using PIPE like they used to do, they wouldn't have to be "working" with ISPs.

(Y2BNE1) writes...

The 'problem' is that the ABC have stopped hosting the content on their own servers, and shifted it over to Akamai, which means that Internode aren't able to unmeter it anymore.

iiNet seem to have iView content unmetered, though with the odd teething problem.

/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1019683.html

taree2430 writes...

If iinet has it for free maybe internode should look at it again so it can be unmetered as well.

Here is the current situation.

We've been actively involved with the ABC regarding this launch – they have been consulting major ISPs about it, encouraging them to consider unmetering the content.

Internode, with its history (of being the first ISP to unmeter the ABC in the first place) is, as you'd expect, interested in unmetering this new service. We'd love to.

The challenge is that right now, technically, we can't – for the very reason that has been discussed in detail when we first had to withdraw our official unmetering of the ABC some time back now.

(That reason, in brief: That the ABC moved to using Akamai for bulk content distribution, which includes the new iView service, and the use of Akamai happens to make unmetering in the conventional manner basically impossible. This wasn't intentional on anyones' part – its just that the ABC moved to using Akamai without appreciating the side effect that would have).

Unmetering is based on source IP address lists (at least, it is for us and for almost everyone else). The thing with Akamai is two-fold:

a) The source IPs can be from anywhere in the planet, and the list of them is ever changing. Thats a pest, but not strictly impossible to handle, however there is also:

b) The source IPs of each cluster are shared between all content served by Akamai. So its impossible to unmeter 'just' the ABC – we'd have to unmeter 100% of what Akamai serve to the planet – which represents an un-tenable cost to us given that Telstra and Optus ports both have AGVC costs which would cause that to make practically all customers loss making overnight (Akamai serve out a lot of major world content).

iiNet are unmetering the ABC, and AFAIK they're the only ones to be doing so – and thats because they happen to have set up their customer edge network a little differently to others, and they have some (very expensive) additional hardware installed at their customer edge that is capable of doing unmetering at a deeper granularity than source IP address.

Kudos to them for being able to, but its an investment that is massive, I doubt it was made for this specific purpose (i.e. its a nice co-incidence for them that they can do this, and that is their good luck), but I'm not aware of any other ISP in Australia with the same capability at this time.

We have been in conversation with the ABC about this issue for a while – and there are workarounds that involve the ABC changing their approach to content distribution so that it becomes possible for Australian ISPs to do unmetering based on known (and critically, unique) source IPs again.

We are working with them to help to be a part of the solution here – and I expect that over the next few months, we'll collectively come up with an approach that solves it (and not just for Internode). No, we don't need brainstorming here on how to do that, we know how to do that – its a matter of getting on with it – it just can't be done instantly.

BTW, Internode actually still unmeters ABC content that comes directly out of the ABC peering link in Sydney, by the way, its just that most of their content no longer comes out via that path.

I've provided this long explanation so that you can all appreciate that we do want to do this, we are just not technically able to do so at this time (and neither, to my knowledge, is any other major ISP in Australia at this time).

The ABC are well aware of this (and key staff at Internode including me personally have been in discussions with key ABC staff about it for some time, with a view to solving it).

So I expect it'll be addressed in the future – just not today.

Regards,
Simon Hackett

Thank you Simon for this extended reply. As a non tech internode customer who really likes what the ABC are doing online, and with early forms of IPTV, I can now understand why only iinet have this service unmetered.
As a media researcher, I think its going to be very popular for the early adopters of IPTV (in the older and less technical savvy age brackets), essentially because its associated with a well loved, local quality brand.

Simon Hackett writes...

The ABC are well aware of this (and key staff at Internode including me personally have been in discussions with key ABC staff about it for some time, with a view to solving it).

So I expect it'll be addressed in the future – just not today.

Regards,

Simon Hackett

Thanks for the explaination and hopefully it will soon be solved.
In regards to the abc it really is pointless to have a service which would eat into someones down load limit.
There are many customers whos limits are small and would find that even though the service is there to be used it is no good to them because it is metered and there allowance would be swallowed up very fast.

Yeah, I'm sure it will be resolved at some point and thanks Simon for taking the time to explain things, that's why we love Internode!

I am happy to wait patiently for however long it takes and will then consider upgrading to a faster adsl speed, if I can afford it. How does it run on 1500kbps?

That would be about the only account upgrade I could afford – just.

Blackheathsnow writes...

How does it run on 1500kbps?

Jerkily! Although if you pause it, it appears to continue downloading. If this is the case you could pause it for awhile before starting to watch.

I'm watching the hour long Q&A and wishing I had ASDL2 available at my exchange in the Blue Mountains because the streaming burps are really annoying!!

Kudos to them for being able to, but its an investment that is massive, I doubt it was made for this specific purpose (i.e. its a nice co-incidence for them that they can do this, and that is their good luck), but I'm not aware of any other ISP in Australia with the same capability at this time.

added to that, Apple Tv movies, TV shows are coming and they are looking to make a deal with iinet.

So, in future iinet may advertise ATV shows, movies, ABC online TV as their main entertainment channel which comes under uncounted data.

Blackheathsnow writes...

How does it run on 1500kbps?

seems to run ok for me, remember it's Flash content with lots of compression so the quality isn't brilliant but it's still perfectly watchable (fullscreen on 1680x1050) and I had no buffering issues with the one show I've looked at (Foyle's War).

Kudos to the ABC for doing such a great job on this, and looking forward to the day Internode can provide this unmetered.

Blackheathsnow writes...

I am happy to wait patiently for however long it takes and will then consider upgrading to a faster adsl speed, if I can afford it. How does it run on 1500kbps?

I was watching Q&A this morning on my 1500kpbs connection and it was fine.

Looks a bit soft on my 24" 1920x1200 display, but in a window it was fine.

my analogue CRT TV is perfect for streaming video – I run a super video cable from the computer to the TV and it looks fantastic.

50 foot wide high definition digital TV's will always make streaming media look poor unless it's streamed at that TV's resolution at some insane bit rate (i.e. HD TV broadcasts).

One reason why I have not moved to a native digital TV yet (as in flat screen).

demosthenes writes...

my analogue CRT TV is perfect for streaming video – I run a super video cable from the computer to the TV and it looks fantastic.

I do the same thing, and I am so glad that the ABC has done this because I cannot pickup ABC TV in my building and strata wont put up a community antenna mast.

Thanks Simon for that very detailed and clear reply. I will wait for something to happen although that extra 15Gig you recently gave us will help.

Damn Simon you got demoted to spokesman?

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,24070996-5014239,00.html

:-P

Thanks P.J.C, Philh and Dalron, will watch this thread and related ones with interest to see how it pans out on 1500 speeds as anything much faster may not be happening up here.

ABC have done so well, there is also other Australian TV site for indie and international content that dont get the headlines e.g. http://www.wasabitv.com.au

ABC got nothing...... Now what we need is some of them weird kinky World Movies we see on SBS as unmetered. :P

mywire writes...

Thank you Simon for this extended reply. As a non tech internode customer who really likes what the ABC are doing online, and with early forms of IPTV, I can now understand why only iinet have this service unmetered.
As a media researcher, I think its going to be very popular for the early adopters of IPTV (in the older and less technical savvy age brackets), essentially because its associated with a well loved, local quality brand.

Please realize that this ABC content has nothing to do with IPTV. I say this not to criticize, but to educate. IPTV is a very specific thing, and it is not related in any way to randomly streaming or downloading vidoes off of the internet.

I know that ActewAGL is IPTV based, and that TPG is doing IPTV trials of free satellite content, but am unaware of anyone else doing major work in australia with it (but I also havent' looked into it deeply).

sounds like a another cop out from internode saying that the abc should consult all Isp's before they do anything on the Internet the reason why they went with those type of servers is for the customer needs to get the content first. Everyone knows or should at know by now you pay for downloads from your ISP and the abc says that on it's site. Saying that I do hope that all ISP are able to do this content for free as I love the abc and recommend internode all my friends for naked DSL were possible

iiNet has NASA and ABC iVeiw TV.
The iview I can understand... but how they get the NASA tv???
Is Internode slipping??

http://www.iinet.net.au/my/media/mc-tv.html

darksplat writes...

ounds like a another cop out from internode saying that the abc should consult all Isp's before they do anything on the Internet

Are you familiar with the full stop "." key? :)

It's not a cop out – HD video is bandwidth intensive and as such unless it originates from a local source that can be un-metered (based on the technology Internode currently have at there disposal) the answer as almost always been 'no'.

And the ABC simply assumed, rightly or wrongly, that ISPs would be happy to un-meter resources that may well come from any akamai cluster, despite it's geographical location.

Given only one isp, at this time, appears to have done so, it would suggest it's non-trivial to do.

SnipSnap! writes...

iiNet has NASA

If you read Simon's post, you'd likely have your answer. iiNet have a very different system in place to track what is to be metered and what is not – Yahoo has an agreement with Nasa and Akamai if memory serves.

Unless iiNet has a large dish on their HQ roof-top, Akamai is the likely source.

so much for the 'universal service' charter of the ABC.

Brendan. writes...

Akamai is the likely source.

Also iinet have Akamai servers and i think there are the only ones in Australia apart from Bigpond...

philh writes...

Kudos to the ABC for doing such a great job on this, and looking forward to the day Internode can provide this unmetered.

As much as I love the ABC, I find it weird they're paying Akamai for content distribution when they seem to have a lot of the major Australian ISPs lining up to help them distribute their content.

I assume the main driving factor is so the news and other media services can be delivered easily and efficiently to international locations, but it seems like they could have saved a bundle on content that's going to be exclusively accessible to Australians (like I assume iView will be, maybe?) by coming up with an easily mirror-able structure that ISPs can opt to host if they want.

Simon Hackett writes...

we don't need brainstorming here on how to do that, we know how to do that

For certain. However, I wonder....

Internode actually still unmeters ABC content that comes directly out of the ABC peering link in Sydney

Has anyone suggested the ABC set up a page (or subsite) with all of that content listed? Seems to me it'd be a reasonably trivial thing to do...

Fred Lurk writes...

Has anyone suggested the ABC set up a page (or subsite) with all of that content listed? Seems to me it'd be a reasonably trivial thing to do...

it's where the linked content sits that's the issue, not the web page itself.

batkiwi writes...

IPTV is a very specific thing, and it is not related in any way to randomly streaming or downloading vidoes off of the internet.

Sorry – I've always found definitions of IPTV to be quite broad. Ranging from streaming video to downloads, over the internet or just on a single ISP. Can you point me towards your definition?

AnalogAlex writes...

Also iinet have Akamai servers and i think there are the only ones in Australia apart from Bigpond...

And a few iiNet users who aren't using iiNet DNS servers have had their download counted as regular data. The DNS servers must be doing something important in directing the data requests?

Quentin Rittman writes...

it's where the linked content sits that's the issue, not the web page itself.

Guess I didn't explain that well. Of course I'm talking about listing only the content that is hosted off the local peer as Simon described. The list could be generated by the same app that dumps the media files there in the first place (although a background task that constantly refreshes what is currently available would make more sense).

AnalogAlex writes...

Also iinet have Akamai servers and i think there are the only ones in Australia apart from Bigpond...

FAR from it actually.

Almost any half decent will run their own Akamai servers these days, and those that don't will almost certainly connect to one via PIPE [or some other peering link].

Just of the top of my head ...

Internode were one of the very first Aussie ISPs to run their own Akamai cluster [and still do obviously].

AAPT/Connect run their own Akamai servers.
TPG/Soul have one on the old Comindico network.

Exetel, iPrimus, Pacific Internet, uecomm & AARNet all have their own servers as well.

I'm certain there's at least a few more that I haven't thought of yet either ...

I think one thing missed here is that ABC should be applauded for producing the service in the first place.

Sure it would be nice it if was free, but it clearly isnt free to produce (for the ABC), and it also clearly costs money for us to transport around the country.

If I was paying for my quota (*snicker*), I'd happily pay for this content. Its really slick.

Unmetering it would be nice, but its not something that should detract from the fact that the ABC have done something really, really, cool.

Brad

Simon Hackett writes...

Here is the current situation.

We've been actively involved with the ABC regarding this launch – they have been consulting major ISPs about it, encouraging them to consider unmetering the content.

Simon,

Like others here, thank you for the detailed explanation. This type of openness with your customers is one of the reasons I continue to use Internode as my ISP. I hope you can reach a satisfactory result with the ABC. I certainly miss the un-mettered ABC radio streams.

Regards,
Peter

The problem with ABC iView is that they don't achieve previous episode.

Take The Guren Transfer, there's only 2 episodes on it (from the previous 2 weeks). That means they're missing about 7 episodes. But it looks like they only allow the last two weeks of shows..and heck what about old schools like The Chasers...

Back to torrent/usernet i go ; (

This service is simply awesome, it makes youtube quality look terrible. You can easily see how if everyone worked together for the greater good of the customer we could have a kick @ss IPTV service in Oz that would render Foxtel obsolete.

Goes to show what a media organisation is capable of if they dont have a commercial focus. I feel my tax is going to good use here. Well done ABC and well doen Internode for commiting themselves to making this content unmetered.

yeh good post ad5 n brad,

The service works very well and it is good to see tax money going to a good cause.

Now if only the other channels could prove as good. Also if node can get the umetered part up sooner or later that would be nice too.

Brad Gould writes...

I think one thing missed here is that ABC should be applauded for producing the service in the first place.

While i agree, I think it's a fundamental flaw to "Geo Block" the content they are serving. It's a pain when Americans do it to us, and it's just as silly for the ABC to try and block non-Australians, or OS users on the "global village" that is the Internet.

"ABC iView is geo-blocked, which means that you can't access the programs from overseas. This is due to programming rights management, which prevent us from making this content available in markets other than Australia"

Looking up "Programming Rights Management" you see it's an ABC body which overseas it's own content... So basically a division of the ABC is the cause for the Geo Blocking. http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/media/s518398.htm

Content providers need to get used to the fact that content is international and see's the opportunity for the ABC to gain international viewers and users of it's services. The very idea of the internet is about sharing and while I applaud their efforts, containing content to just one market when a whole new one is waiting, rather defeats the main philosophy of online content idea IMO.

Other forms of content delivery like BT or Usenet do not discriminate based on geographical locations, and as such will be the dominant forms of content delivery for sometime.

FreakBull writes...

Content providers need to get used to the fact that content is international and see's the opportunity for the ABC to gain international viewers and users of it's services.

The ABC is aware that the internet doesn't have national boundaries in most cases, however content costs money. A lot of the content on iView is licenced to the ABC for broadcast in Australia only – naturally the owner of the content would wish to maximise their returns, and allowing one content provider to give global access is counter to that. Licence restrictions would prevent the ABC from streaming this content outside its broadcast market. Similarly, the ABC seeks an income stream internationally for the programs it produces and can licence, and streaming internationally could impinge on rights of those who have licenced from the ABC.

It's a tradeoff between having worthwhile content, or not.

davidw89 writes...

Take The Guren Transfer, there's only 2 episodes on it (from the previous 2 weeks). That means they're missing about 7 episodes.

That's when the usenet from Node comes in handy, they're all on there.

ad5 writes...

Goes to show what a media organisation is capable of if they dont have a commercial focus

They are obviously experts at getting blood out of a stone. I mean with all of the previous cuts to funding, not only do they have the best locally hosted media site in Australia but they also launched a 2nd TV channel. Pretty amazing.

Sorry, I should have been clearer in explaining the situation.

I would like to see ABC fully unmetered again, but I only use it sometimes so it's not a big deal to me. Too bad it's difficult to make this traffic unmetered, but it's good to see that it may change.

Simon Hackett is quoted in this news article: http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,24070996-5014239,00.html

Looks like news.com.au just decided to lift his comments from Whirlpool.

They also just addressed Simon Hackett (well, his comments) as coming from a "spokesman" (obviously they didn't call him).

Brad Gould writes...

I think one thing missed here is that ABC should be applauded for producing the service in the first place.

Sure, they should be applauded.

But they should have fully thought through the issues regarding the use of Akamai to distribute their video.

Rather than talk to ISPs after the fact, they should have probably talked to ISPs during the development of iView.

Sure, iView is great..... but I cant use it along with millions of other users around Australia due to their lack of foresight.

Team Infidel writes...

But they should have fully thought through the issues regarding the use of Akamai to distribute their video.

I'm not sure that they didn't – there are some very valid reasons for using akamai. http://www.akamai.com/html/technology/products/streaming.html

Ability to have iView unmetered is a problem, but not insurmountable. In any case I doubt if the ABC would consider it enough reason to not use akamai for streaming content distribution.

Team Infidel writes...

Sure, iView is great..... but I cant use it

Why can't you use it?

Queeg 500 writes...

Why can't you use it?

I could use it but I choose NOT to eat up downloads.

philh writes...

In any case I doubt if the ABC would consider it enough reason to not use akamai for streaming content distribution.

For a thing like iView I think there is enough reason not to use it UNTIL first getting a work around solution with Australian ISPs.

iView is of no use to anyone outside Australia.

iView wont be popular until the downloading issue is sorted out.

Sure, people will use it, until they realise they're shaped very quickly after using it.

Or worse, if they use an ISP such as BigPuddle and end up with a massive excess bill.

Team Infidel writes...

Sure, iView is great..... but I cant use it along with millions of other users around Australia due to their lack of foresight.

...Why can't you use it, and why can't these "millions" of other users use it?

Team Infidel writes...

I could use it but I choose NOT to eat up downloads.

That's your choice to make then – if people value the content then they won't have a problem using some of their quota to watch it (particularly when many 'real' users are unlikely to get anywhere near quota most months). Case in point – I missed all three airings of this week's four corners and wanted to see it, so I had no problem spending 110Mb to watch it online (despite the fact that I generally use most or all of my download quota).

I wasn't particularly impressed by the quality, when Dr. Horrible showed what's in use overseas and how good streaming video can look with a higher bitrate, but it was good enough for what I wanted and a decent tradeoff of quality vs file size.

Simon Hackett writes...

Kudos to them for being able to, but its an investment that is massive

Just wondering, how expensive would this investment be?

P.J.C writes...

I was watching Q&A this morning on my 1500kpbs connection and it was fine.

Yep, 1500 works perfectly, barely had to buffer at all for me when I was watching Doctor Who...

SnipSnap! writes...

iiNet has NASA and ABC iVeiw TV.
The iview I can understand... but how they get the NASA tv???
Is Internode slipping??

Simon's working on getting NASA TV. It looks as though Internode will have a large dish on their HQ and will stream it from there. (Thats what I read in another thread) Can't wait :D

--------------------

As for me, I'll probably just continue to download my TV content that I've missed thru P2P. You can download a 1hr near HD quality avi episode of Dexter for less than 300mb! (Even though thats not on ABC) I dont want any of this iView half decent quality haha.

It'd be nice if they had higher/lower quality options for those of us with faster/slower connections.

Nah but its good what their doing. Hopefully other TV stations will follow suit (hopefully Channel 10! haha)

Techn1x writes...

Simon's working on getting NASA TV. It looks as though Internode will have a large dish on their HQ and will stream it from there.

A massive dish?

You can get so much free content using just a 1m dish with multiple LNB's.

When the new house is built, that is what I'll be doing. A $350 investment (that includes the decoder).

Team Infidel writes...

A massive dish?

/forum-replies.cfm?t=1014962

Queeg 500 writes...

/forum-replies.cfm?t=1014962

What I mean is if they're getting this massive dish, I hope they're considering a few other "free" channel, considering the fact this dish will be able to receive lot of other free to air "English" language channels.

Al-Jazeera English anyone? Now that would be an investment in quality.

While we're at it, lets just un-meter the whole freakin' internet. Lol!

I guess it's called an unlimited plan :P

Techn1x writes...

I guess it's called an unlimited plan :P

Australians aren't really realising the whole "web 2.0" thing. ISPs wonder why they're being asked to mirror so much stuff. It is because Australians have by default all these programmes that everyone else in the developed world is able to use... yet we cant.

Gruen Transfer is available as a podcast from iTunes. The last 4 episodes are also available as a Windows Media download (and MP4) from:

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/gruentransfer/download.htm

What I don't understand is when other posters say 'I won't use my download quota to download this show' or 'it makes it unusable to me and millions of others...'

You have a download quota. It is there to be used. If you chose to spend your quota on other things, then goodo, that's your choice. I would imagine though that a huge proportion of users never approach their quota limit and can't imagine using more than a few gig in a month.

If I didn't download this stuff, I'd have so much unused quota it would be ridiculous. If you download distro's and just other stuff, that is your choice. Outside of the geek/nerd/enthusiast community, I suspect a lot of people are struggling to justify their current ISP plan.

Gruen is about 150mb on iView, less than 100mb via iTunes. I'm downloading 'After the flag' from motogp.com and that's 250mb. I have a quota, I use it. If it looks like I will exceed it (and do so regularly), I'd consider changing my plan. Just like people do with phone plans etc...

I really don't see what the fuss is all about. It's great that ABC are doing this, not charging us for it and providing multiple entry points into their service.

Team Infidel writes...

For a thing like iView I think there is enough reason not to use it UNTIL first getting a work around solution with Australian ISPs.

iView wont be popular until the downloading issue is sorted out.

Well im really confused. a 50min show is listed around 130Mb on iview from memory. Watching it for 4 hours a day would only chew 15-20GB a month. And lets face it, thats pretty good value on your quota if you ask me.

Sure, people will use it, until they realise they're shaped very quickly after using it.

130Mb an hour wont very quickly shape you.

The Internet is there to be used, im not sure why people resist something becuase it eats up their quota? Bit like not driving becuase it uses your fuel – why have a car?

Team Infidel writes...

all these programmes that everyone else in the developed world is able to use... yet we cant.

What cant a normal person with a life and a 5Gigabyte plan for $40 a month do with "web 2.0".

Note: im not talking about people who are glued to their PC 24*7...

Beagle! writes...

If I didn't download this stuff, I'd have so much unused quota it would be ridiculous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet !

I'd love to see iView unmetered, I've barely used it and am already loving it. This type of service will mean I could almost ditch my PVR (and the effort required to maintain my epg's and recordings) and simply hook a PC up to the TV.

I don't really see ISPs marketing this to their 'mum & dad' users. Surely they are financially better off if a higher percentage of customers don't use their quota.

Unfortunately for the moment, I think it will continue to be an early adopter/nerd type technology.

Beagle! writes...

Gruen Transfer is available as a podcast from iTunes. The last 4 episodes are also available as a Windows Media download (and MP4) from:

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/gruentransfer/download.htm

You can get *all* l the episodes if you go hunting for the right filenames :)

Which made me very happy, as I have missed most of it, and it was not to be found on any of the other usual places.

Brad Gould writes...

You can get *all* l the episodes if you go hunting for the right filenames :)

Which does make it seem a bit odd why they'd remove the links to the file(s), when they've obviously still got them sitting on their servers.

I wonder what the reason behind all that is?

heresy writes...

I don't really see ISPs marketing this to their 'mum & dad' users. Surely they are financially better off if a higher percentage of customers don't use their quota.

If Internode and other ISPs are trying to offer this free, then I think we can be sure it's not as expensive as regular data. Even if it was, in Australia we pay for ADSL2+ based on how much data we expect to use, so low users would take lower plans to a large degree (whereas in America they pay for connection speed, so every new service falls into their free quota and ISPs are under more pressure as Internet TV options increase)

I assume that even if Internode can't work out (yet) what we're downloading from Akamai, it's cheaper than other data.

ps. Ultimately what this service needs for us is to work on a set top box. It needs to be viewable from TiVo, XBox360, PS3, AppleTV, etc... they all accept MP4 (I assume this is flash mp4?) – pity there isn't a set top box standard for managing & listing available online content. (all in time.)

Yes I am familiar with the full stop key but when it is early in the morning, freezing cold, and you are using your iPhone to reply i skip the punctuation, because sunny boy I was on the net back in the late 80's were we didnt use punctuation ok – segway"."

Now if you read my post in full it did sound like a cop out from internode due to these comments only look at the last line"."

That reason, in brief: That the ABC moved to using Akamai for bulk content distribution, which includes the new iView service, and the use of Akamai happens to make unmetering in the conventional manner basically impossible. This wasn't intentional on anyones' part – its just that the ABC moved to using Akamai without appreciating the side effect that would have.

Now if you read right down the bottom of my post I say

Saying that I do hope that all ISP are able to do this content for free as I love the abc and recommend internode all my friends for naked DSL were possible"."

So even though I think that statement that Simon did was a cop out I still love the ABC and internode as I see them as one of the last value for money ISP's (optus fusion customer at the moment (before upload paying)) out there"."
cheers

darksplat writes...

So even though I think that statement that Simon did was a cop out I still love the ABC and internode as I see them as one of the last value for money ISP's

I'd agree with you on the cop-out statement. (to paraphase) historial statement:
"Here, come join us, we've got unmetered content."

Later followed by:
"gee, it's all too difficult to do unmetered anymore".

I don't think Internode would be classed as "value for money", but it's (mostly) 100% reliable, which is what I do pay for.

Brad Gould writes...

You can get *all* l the episodes if you go hunting for the right filenames :)

Yes, this is a sneaky little tip: the ABC often keep content online even though it's no longer directly accessible from a web page. Unfortunately I have a history of discovering these things only to have them abruptly dry up.

sits back to see if the jinx is still in play

(Y2BNE1) writes...

Which does make it seem a bit odd why they'd remove the links to the file(s), when they've obviously still got them sitting on their servers.

I'm not sure why, but I remember they did the same thing with summer hights high.

I hope internode can resolve this matter, as our family will use iView a lot.

I hadn't seen this before today – what a great site. I don't think I've seen streaming video done so well before.

is it just me or is the frame rate a little jumpy? I watch XVID and DIVX video compressed right down to say 300MB for 40mins to an hour and it seems quite good.

But I suppose the iview videos are compressed even more than the average XVID or DIVX TV show episode off the net.

MichaelM writes...

I'm not sure why, but I remember they did the same thing with summer hights high.

Isnt it becuase the whole series of a lot of shows is available via podcasting.

I have the Gruen transfer on my ipod via itunes, and this was about a month after it started. It had no issue retireving the first 4 episodes, and then kept up to date ever since......

And just looking at the itunes site now, they have as far back as episode 6

I'ld love if Internode in any way could make ABC iview unmetered like iiNet have.
Hopefully Internode can make some sort of arrangement with ABC to make this possible.. EG a mirror or something on Internodes servers.

I applaud iiNet for making it possible on their network already.

Chaser >Spics & Specks > Gruen Transfer

And in that order.

Where does the Einstein Factor or The New Inventors fit into that?

bits writes...

I'ld love if Internode in any way could make ABC iview unmetered like iiNet have.

Why is everyone so desperate to copy another ISP's services?

This is analogous in saying we iinet users want to stream DI.Fm at 192kbps and also want it like Internode content FREE and all their other high quality radio stations...

As the old saying goes you can't have one's cake and eat it too.....

Each ISP has it's own uniqueness and services/qualities..

Why the jealousy? Not the troll here but seriously first it was the NASA now it's ABC. Sounds like some people can't handle that.

Easy just move over to whichever ISP provides you with what you want....

You cant blame us, they're cool services.

And iiNet has shown everyone it's possible.

And we're used to Internode being the leader :D

Whats so bad about that?

©£ONeST@® writes...

As the old saying goes you can't have one's cake and eat it too.....

You can at Internode :-) That's why we're asking. Why settle for either feature A or feature B when you're with an ISP that does its level best to deliver both?

©£ONeST@® writes...

Why is everyone so desperate to copy another ISP's services?

This is analogous in saying we iinet users want to stream DI.Fm at 192kbps and also want it like Internode content FREE and all their other high quality radio stations...

As the old saying goes you can't have one's cake and eat it too.....

Each ISP has it's own uniqueness and services/qualities..

Why the jealousy? Not the troll here but seriously first it was the NASA now it's ABC. Sounds like some people can't handle that.

Easy just move over to whichever ISP provides you with what you want....

I don't think it's analogous at all. You're almost saying it's the same as regional australia wanting 3 commercial channels, just to copy the capitals. It's not about copying services.

We had a terrible start to PayTV where you had to subscribe to 2 separate providers if you wanted to watch all the available sports (etc). Lets hope that with Internet TV services we can, as much as possible, have them operating on many providers.

edit/ps: And lets hope that we don't have to buy 5 different set top boxes to watch 5 different Internet TV services!

©£ONeST@® writes...

Why is everyone so desperate to copy another ISP's services?

In regards to iView, it won't be copying something another ISP (iiNet).
As simon said... iiNet have got some very expensive hardware (an akamai farm) that will allow them to put this in freezone (afaik, itunes in freezone works the same for them). It's up to node management to see if they want to and can invest in that, or if there is another option.

©£ONeST@® writes...

Why is everyone so desperate to copy another ISP's services?

It's not really copying iiNet – Internode have had unmetered ABC content for ages.

Easy just move over to whichever ISP provides you with what you want....

That's great if you can find the mythical ISP that provides you with everything that you want.

Winus writes...

(an akamai farm) that will allow them to put this in freezone

Thats actually not what it is- Internode have an Akamai farm as well.

The equipment iiNet have that Internode do not is more in the line of monitoring equipment I believe- some sort of deep inspection?

©£ONeST@®, I cant believe you are comparing the ABC with some DI.FM radio station. They simply are not comparable.
If it was a certain import radio station that people were complaining about I'ld understand your standpoint. But its not, it's the ABC.

bits writes...

But its not, it's the ABC.

So because its ABC it should be available freely to every ISP?

My point is infrastructure... if an ISP spends on this should it be available freely for others to use?

Agreed DI.fm ain't public nor is NASA but I gather iinet have put down $$ for these items along with ABC.

It certainly raises a dilemma that is for sure...

bits writes...

But its not, it's the ABC.

The ABC chose to co-locate their data on a system that most ISPs in Australia have never and (likely) will never provide un-metered.

The ABC chose to move their data, not the ISP. The ABC assumed (rightly or wrongly) that it wouldn't be an issue. They are no doubt learning quickly that the move to a highly-redundant, de-centralised platform that spans the globe isn't always the "easy answer" to scaling concerns.

iiNet are about the only ISP who have the hardware required to un-meter Akamai and that is more of a happy coincidence than (necessarily) by design — I am sure that hardware was actually deployed for other reasons, potentially for deeper packet inspection (and there are a bunch of reasons why that might help the ISP).

The ABC have made a series of decisions about where they would house their data that were not openly discussed with ISPs. At the time, there was likely no reasonable reason to. If they want to form solid relationships with ISPs to promote more open and un-metered access, then chances are a number of changes will need to be made by the ABC in conjunction with ISPs.

It's clear from Simon's initial answer that this isn't a 'stopped' process. There will be activity going on in the background to make this happen if at all possible. It's also non-trivial and thus the "answer" may not appear for some time.

It should be noted that the ISP isn't preventing access, nor are the ABC — thus aren't likely to be specifically breaching ABC's own charter.

SnipSnap! writes...

Chaser >Spics & Specks > Gruen Transfer

The Glass House > all of them

JB HiFi writes...

The Glass House > all of them

The government censored that one..... And they say we are not communism... BAH!

JB HiFi writes...

The Glass House > all of them

The ABC will not put unlimited content on... certainly not if they're also selling that on DVD. That would be bad business practices...

Brendan. writes...

The ABC chose to move their data, not the ISP. The ABC assumed (rightly or wrongly) that it wouldn't be an issue.

And it isn't, for them. There is a distinct possibility that, had they not used Akamai, the service wouldn't exist anyway. At least not in it's current form.

This type of thing is what Akamai do well and, it would seem, cost-effectively.

CJ writes...

This type of thing is what Akamai do well and, it would seem, cost-effectively.

Quite. Not suggesting Akamai is bad. Rather that any un-metered access (at least in Australia) to Akamai is a rare occurrence. Thus there is going to be some effort required to bridge the gap.

Brendan. writes...

It's clear from Simon's initial answer that this isn't a 'stopped' process.

Not that there is any great incentive for Simon to fix it soon, now is there?

"Hmmm, offer free ABC peering again, while throwing $100 bills into the fire."

While I can't speak for Simon. I don't think that's how he looks at this situation. How can you think that after looking at his post in this thread? Having this unmetred would be a valuable addition to Internode's plans/services and thus, would be far from throwing $100 notes into a fire.

©£ONeST@® writes...

Agreed DI.fm ain't public nor is NASA but I gather iinet have put down $$ for these items along with ABC.

i'm not quite sure what you mean here. but if you are saying that iinet have installed this hardware with ABC then Simon has already addressed that.

Simon Hackett writes...

iiNet are unmetering the ABC, and AFAIK they're the only ones to be doing so – and thats because they happen to have set up their customer edge network a little differently to others

I really don't like that argument that because one isp has something and the one you are with doesn't you should jump to that one. And it isn't copying...that would be like saying every ISP has copied telstra (or go back as far as you want) in providing an online service.

I can't speak for everyone but I would just like it if Node went back to unmetering ABC. Obviously things have changed but as Simon has already mentioned they are working on a solution that would allow them to do it again. Are you argueing that since iinet are already unmetering ABC, Simon should move on to something else that no one else is doing?

Either way i watched iView today and it was fantastic, quality was even pretty good. Bit of a drain on the downloads but if it is unmetered i will definitely be streaming this through my HTPC when the usual channels become boring (which is more and more regularly nowadays).