Whirlpool

G'day,

I've been using Virgin wireless for about 5 months now and it's been having an intermittent problem.

If I am surfing the net, suddenly pages will stoop appearing and show 'not found' errors in IE and email won't connect so effectively I've lost the connection. But the modem screen still shows 'Connected'.

I realised after a while that the problem occurs as soon as the mode changes from UMTS to HSDPA. I have to hit the 'disconnect reconnect' button and I am able to access the internet again. I'm beginning to think I am in one of those 'oversold' areas where there are more people than possible HSDPA connections in the local tower. My reception shows as 'Very Good -65db'.

The phone works fine, but often on a long phone call (over about ½ an hour) it drops out but it's not an issue as we don't make many calls this long.

I changed the settings in the modems network options to 'UMTS Only' and even upgraded to the latest firmware. But the problem still occurs. I would have thought selecting 'UMTS Only' would mean that it won't change to HSDPA randomly. Is there a way to force the modem to stay on UMTS? I don't care about the speed as I don't do much downloading, I just want reliable surfing and email.

Also, I haven't phone the support desk as I'd rather not sit on hold for an hour or more, and my connection would probably drop out anyway. Plus they would probably say 'power cycle your modem' and I have done this a million times.

Cheers,

Shannon

Yep, that is normal for Virgin. Nothing I can offer to fix it I'm afraid, it's just the normal poor service you get from Virgin Broadband.

Roscoe writes...

it's just the normal poor service you get from Virgin Broadband

Are you serious? So basically, we pay for a service that doesn't work and there is nothing we can do? Where do I get my refund?

If there was a way to force the modem into UMTS mode, surely that would solve the problem?

You can force it to GPRS only, but that still wont fix your (our) problem.

Welcome to the Virgin world......sigh......

UMTS only on the modem just means it won't go back to GPRS and will still try to upgrade to HSDPA when the traffic justifies it. Your experience mirrors mine, at times the modem tried to go to a faster channel, can't find an available one but isn't intelligent enough to realise that and drop back to UMTS without a hit of the button or waiting a while.

Not much you can do unless you have an alternative service available, in which case you can try and talk the help desk into offering you a free out of the contract.

ShanJay writes...

Are you serious?

I am serious, and don’t call me Shirley.

I have the same problem on a daily basis. Nothing new to me.

Hi, I have my virgin broadband for a week now, have not made it permanent yet, still got my 20 days test left, have discovered the same problems. What alternative do I have, I got kicked off AAPT, love the fact that I don't need a copper wire for the phone and can move house without the hassle of organiszing phone transfers. Is there a similar supplier that has a better product?

Welcome to the club !

Is there a similar supplier that has a better product?

No.

Virgin has no system in place to prevent overselling of an area.
Indeed your mobility will be part of the problem. As people move
into an area with Virgin BB@H they add to that areas lack of service.
Poignant Moment

The idea and potential of the technology is fantastic.
The delivery and capacity is the issue.

Optus and the People who are supplying the back end just have not enough room.

Unwired Channel 7 engin conglomerate is still yet to do anything of note.

iiNet and Internode have a souped up DSL with a range of 7K plus.

The downside if the line goes thud, Telstra does not want to know
about naked DSL lines, and calling the ISP is via mobile.

There are no easy solutions.

This is unbelievable. It seems to me that Virgin is flogging a service that they know is unreliable and that they cannot support.

When we had our 30 day trial period at the beginning of this year the service was working fine with only a couple of minor dropouts. Since then the service had gradually become worse, and I assume this is because Virgin have been going nuts with their advertising campaign and many people in my area have now signed up.

I'm sure that if I spoke to them and pushed the issue that I would be able to at least break my contract without any dramas. But, what about all the other poor people that get sucked in and locked into a 2 year contract for a shonky service? Shouldn't they be investigated and if found to be pushing an unreliable service, can they be stopped?

ShanJay writes...

When we had our 30 day trial period at the beginning of this year the service was working fine with only a couple of minor dropouts. Since then the service had gradually become worse,

If I had a $ for every time I've read that statement and statements like it on this website I'd be able to afford to pay my way out of my contract with V, and still have enough over to set myself up with something which actually works!!!!

Yes, as most are saying – welcome to Verging badland! I was on of the first ones on this "service", and it has gradually become worse. I have installed an external high-gain antenna, and this raised the strength blocks to a much better level – but the #@!>*ing thing will still drop out – phone included. The only option in my area (4306) is Bogpond at $109/mth for 3 gb. I lived in a 3rd world country for a year, and had reliable internet and cable TV, on an island with pigs and chooks outside the window!

This is a disgraceful situation fir the lucky country.

Yours in frustration

Peter

hillco57 writes...

I lived in a 3rd world country for a year, and had reliable internet and cable TV,

I checked internet speeds in other parts of the world, and Romania, Bulgaria & Rep Of Korea came ahead of Oz.

Internet-wise, we ARE a 3rd World country!

hillco57 writes...

This is a disgraceful situation fir the lucky country.

... but not surprising considering the context in which the term was used by Donald Horne. Read more at http://www.acn.net.au/articles/luckycountry/

hillco57 writes...

I lived in a 3rd world country for a year, and had reliable internet and cable TV, on an island with pigs and chooks outside the window!

Where is this country? It sounds quite appealing. What with petrol at $1.70, mortgage rates continuously on the rise and now with our rubbish 'state of the art' broadband; a shack with chooks, pigs and reliable internet sounds like a much better place to be.

If only I had been to this forum 6 months ago and known the truth about Virgin; I would have stuck with my reliable piece of copper cable.

Also, don't any of the Virgin employees or customer service/technical support people frequent on here to try and offer help or offer explanations about why the service sucks? I notice that a lot of other companies have reps in here to help out and I think it shows good customer service.

Come on Virgin! Pull your finger out!

The official virgin broadband thread got shut down by the moderator because the Virgin rep didn't post there for ages.

He said whirlpool is not their official means of communications, I've never received anything in email about any sort of communications.

They were looking at building a forum on their website or some way for communications but everytime I've seen them try to upgrade their website they end up killing it and breaking things on it.

The only half useful thing I have seen there is the FAQ's and that took them six months plus.

Maybe he expects us to ring support and wait 30 mins plus for communications.
We all get left in the dark so we try to help each other whirlpooleans and make up theories which we think might be happening.

Every week I see more and more new people finding whirlpool and having the same issues and I don't think we are a minority. I refuse to believe that but we all haven't been able to mount any action against them.

We've tried contacting Today Tonight, A Current Affair and other places but no one seems to want to touch them. I thinking of hitting maybe some radio stations next.

Anyone know the email address of Wil and Limo on triplem, I reckon these guys might take on the plight.

Yes, we seem to be over governed, over regulated, and UNDER serviced. The small island in SE Asia where I stayed was poor by our standards, the people didn't have much, but they were very happy and had good moral values. I have feeling that the "good old days" is becoming a very valid saying!

yea... the 'drops' when moving to HSDPA is most noticible in my area during peak hours (mid-late afternoon through to midnight)... makes playing any form of online game a joke; WoW doesn't exactly require good ping times, but it does at least require a reasonably stable connection. Lately i've become a master of Windows Spider Solitair lol.
It also doesn't help that the area I live in is known for the incredibly high volumes of pair gains / rims etc that have traditionally left a lot of people without broadband til now.
4210 / pacific pines area on the GC.
Last week I even went for almost 4 complete days with GPRS access only... and yes, I'm one of those folks that signed up almost 12 months ago, and since those rosy days it has been going downhill.

I to am in the Pacific Pines area 4210 and signed up August last year and it was great to start with but has just continued to go downhill. The problem is I have no option but to hope one day the service improves.

ShanJay writes...

I realised after a while that the problem occurs as soon as the mode changes from UMTS to HSDPA. I have to hit the 'disconnect reconnect' button and I am able to access the internet again. I'm beginning to think I am in one of those 'oversold' areas where there are more people than possible HSDPA connections in the local tower. My reception shows as 'Very Good -65db'.

Whilst there are limitations to the way HSDPA provides data to multiple customers at one time, the common experience when there are more requests than channels available will be to keep the connection on UMTS. A sudden loss of data throughput when the modem tries to access HSDPA is unlikely – it is more likely that there was a loss of data throughput prior to the change, but that you are seeing the switch to HSDPA as a result of requesting data.

Some questions to help us troubleshoot this further:
1. What version of the firmware are you on now? You can check this by going to System Settings > About Virgin Broadband.
2. Are you downloading on UMTS and have a stall as it switches to HSDPA, or are you 'idle' and attempt to request some data when the stall occurs?
3. Do you have any particular times of the day this occurs, or is it occurring at any time?

Hi,

I am experiencing the exact same issue as mentioned – it might sound crazy but the overwhelming symptom is the switch to HSDPA. Disconnecting and reconnecting on the modem usually fixes this, but sometimes it needs to be reset.

1. I am on the initial version of the firmware that comes with the modems (08?). Each time I tried to upgrade the firmware with three previous modems, I believe to the 19 version, each modem crashed at least once per hour and had to be replaced in store. My confidence in Option's/Virgin's firmware upgrades is pretty low, and it's an hour of my work day gone to replace these modems.

2. Typically this is from "idle" – it doesn't stall in the middle of downloads and the continuous ping trick seems to generally keep a connection stable with a few dropouts here and there. However, the "idle" time can be anything from having left the connection for a few hours, to having stopped surfing for 20 seconds.

3. Any time, any day.

The last time I had significant issues (after several hours of accumulated hold time on multiple calls), one of the support guys suggested that resetting the tower would probably fix it. To his credit, he followed this through and followed up with me to let me know it had been done, and since then we have had a few months of great service with only a handful of these HSDPA interruptions occurring. It's started up again recently though, and I've sent an email to Virgin support this morning to try and get the tower reset done again.

I have posted here before, and I will say the same thing I said then – I really, really want this service to work, because it's a great deal on cool technology. It's really a stretch, though, when Virgin appear not to have ironed out these recurring issues over the past 9-12 months, nor do they appear to have identified properly what is causing them.

P.S. I'm in the 2170 postcode in NSW.

Cheers,

David

Hi,
I experience the same problem, R2C19, usually whilst I'm downloading in UMTS, it then kicks up to HSDPA and hangs. I need to reconnect etc.

I am fairly certain same is true when is kicks down to UMTS from HSDPA also.

Weekends and evenings. I'm in QLD 4520. I've had this problem for a few months now and have watched the trend.

My signal is good -83db ish – III

I have no idea if it is possible but It would be ideal if I could lock it into UMTS mode which is fine for me ...

Cheers
Tony

DavidAlex writes...

I am on the initial version of the firmware that comes with the modems (08?). Each time I tried to upgrade the firmware with three previous modems, I believe to the 19 version, each modem crashed at least once per hour and had to be replaced in store.

Upgrade to the latest – it will stop the crashes.

Robert Tihanyi writes...

Some questions to help us troubleshoot this further:

1. What version of the firmware are you on now? You can check this by going to System Settings > About Virgin Broadband.

2. Are you downloading on UMTS and have a stall as it switches to HSDPA, or are you 'idle' and attempt to request some data when the stall occurs?

3. Do you have any particular times of the day this occurs, or is it occurring at any time?

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the reply, it's good to see someone from Virgin has decided to tackle this problem.

In answer to your questions:

1. Just upgraded to R2C19 (from R2C08). This did not affect the problem at all, however sometimes the modem will randomly 'lock up', and I have no internet, phone, and the modem buttons do nothing, so I have to unplug it. This seems to happen about once a day.

2. It happens while surfing the net. I don't really do any actual downloading. We would have maybe 2 or 3 tabs open in IE. For example, facebook, google and whirlpool. We'll be able to click links and pages load fine, then suddenly (even without being idle for more than a second) the loading pages will remain blank and the little rotating circle in the tab header just keeps rotating. Then the pages will stop loading and show 'Internet Explorer cannon display this page'. If I refresh, the same happens again. If I try 'Send/Receive' in Outlook, it is unable to connect. While this is happening the modem usually shows HSDPA, and then changes back to UMTS. I could refresh all day and nothing will connect. So I have to hit the 'disconnect/reconnect' button on the modem. Then everything is fine again.

3. There is no particular time of the day this occurs. I use it mostly in the evenings and it drops out every 5 to 10 minutes. My wife uses it anytime from the morning to afternoon and she experiences it just as often if not more often. She gets extremely frustrated and often has to press the modem button more than once because the first 'reconnect/disconnect' didn't work.

Something I have noticed also is that the modem changes between UMTS and HSDPA a lot. Sometimes ever minute or 2, during these times the internet connectivity is unbearable.

It would be good if we were able to force the modem to stay in UMTS mode. I think it would save a lot of problems.

Thank you,
Shannon

ShanJay writes...

1. Just upgraded to R2C19 (from R2C08). This did not affect the problem at all, however sometimes the modem will randomly 'lock up', and I have no internet, phone, and the modem buttons do nothing, so I have to unplug it. This seems to happen about once a day.

You need the latest (R2C25) to fix this.

cyberknutt writes...

You need the latest (R2C25) to fix this.

OK, thanks. I assumed I had the latest version because I had found a link in Whirlpool that took me to a Virgin Broadband downloads page (Roberts own page I think), and 19 was the latest version there.

I'll download it and install it tonight. I'll keep you updated.

Thank you.
Shannon

cyberknutt writes...

You need the latest (R2C25) to fix this.

No you don't i have a replacement modem 1 month a go it came with the latest firmware and my stall and dropouts have skyrockted since then does not matter weather i am downloading or running a constant ping when it changes to HASPA is when it most likley happens worse at peek times but does not realy matter what time of day.
I am still waiting to hear back from virgin a week latter from a e-mail stating i want to take them up on the get out of contract they have offed me because i carnt use the internet or the phone when i chose to with it being like this at least dial up i can brows with out having to disconnect and reconnect.

thebutcher writes...

No you don't i have a replacement modem 1 month a go it came with the latest firmware and my stall and dropouts have skyrockted

Does it lock up to the point where none of the buttons on the top work and you have to unplug the power to get it going again? That is the lockup we are referring to.

ShanJay writes...

OK, thanks. I assumed I had the latest version because I had found a link in Whirlpool that took me to a Virgin Broadband downloads page (Roberts own page I think), and 19 was the latest version there.

Another poor example of Virgin's customer communications.
So much for sending an email to their customers advising that there is new firmware available. Maybe they prefer to clog up their phone lines and wait for someone to ring and then tell them to update their firmware.

Robert Tihanyi writes...

A sudden loss of data throughput when the modem tries to access HSDPA is unlikely – it is more likely that there was a loss of data throughput prior to the change, but that you are seeing the switch to HSDPA as a result of requesting data.

well, regardless of what actually causes the drop, the net result is that my internet lastnight was unusable for approximately 80% of the time. (No i don't have the specific figures). As a consequence, today was the first time since joining VBB that i've seriously looked at the costs of reactivating my landline and signing up with another ISP. The lack of service has become a serious issue for me now, as my wife requires a connection that *works* (regardless of speed) for online study as part of her college course.

Some questions to help us troubleshoot this further:

1. What version of the firmware are you on now?
R2C25, upgraded to this about 2-3 weeks ago. -83dbm even during rainy days.

2. Are you downloading on UMTS and have a stall as it switches to HSDPA, or are you 'idle' and attempt to request some data when the stall occurs?
Both. A lot of the time, after idling it requires a page refresh or two for the DNS request and/or data to actually come through. Sometimes we have to wait 5+mins for the page to begin to load (at which point it loads fairly fast – indicates a UMTS/HSDPA channel connection issue to me).

3. Do you have any particular times of the day this occurs
Can be any time, but mostly in the evenings (eg after 5pm).

postcode = 4210 (pacific pines area, serviced by oxenford and helensvale exchanges... nfi where the optus mobile towers are), a section of the goldcoast where dsl availability has traditionally been very poor, hence my presumption that the VBB network in this area is now over-subscribed. VBB worked fine this time last year.

1. What version of the firmware are you on now? You can check this by going to System Settings > About Virgin Broadband.

I upgraded to the latest version on Monday the 21st, and it seems to have become worse!

2. Are you downloading on UMTS and have a stall as it switches to HSDPA, or are you 'idle' and attempt to request some data when the stall occurs?

We play online games in the evenings and weekend days, and we are regularly getting lag that goes for 30 seconds or more, which sometimes catches up to itself, but usually disconnects us form the server.

3. Do you have any particular times of the day this occurs, or is it occurring at any time?

Evenings have bcome woefully unreliable. Now some daytimes are becoming unusable as well.

My signal is admittedly weak, usually around the 90-105 mark, but it's been reliably weak until the last week or so. We like to relax in our evenings playing World of Warcraft (online game) and last night we got disconnected once every 2-5 minutes. Needed to reset the SIM, hit disconnect/reconnect, and power restart the modem at various times to get it working again.

mububban writes...

What version of the firmware are you on now? You can check this by going to System Settings > About Virgin Broadband.

its
R2C25
Distribution: GS2P_72
Release date: Apr 17 2008
Platform: Broadcom 5352 – GS2
Modem firmware version: 2.5.17Hd
Hardware version: 3.0
i have only had this modem for almost 1 month as the old one died.
Do you have any particular times of the day this occurs, or is it occurring at any time?

and dropouts with either UMTS or HASPA to the point i have to disconnect and reconnect upto every 30 seconds just to be able to browse the net and it gets worse around 6 pm but it can happen any time of the day or nite
also i have a steady signal of around mid 70's to low 80's

Here is the latest on Thursday nite i finely got through to virgin another hour wasted i told them i have had it and wanted out because they could not provide me the service i pay for the said ok I will have to pay my contract out even though they have offered me out on 3 occasions the last was at the beginning of the month when they sent me a new modem and then it was a case of try this and see what happens again so if it was just a case of i didn't want the service any more i would pay but when a dial up is more stable and faster than virgins system i wont but the tek said they are upgrading the whole system to (fix the problem) year right.
Like most other people i have a service that hardly works (even telstra is so much more reliable than virgin!)

Last few days I couldnt connect at all... a new problem where it says umts or hsdpa but does not actually get anything in or out....

Someone suggested new firmware... I was on 19... I found that switching it to gprs only lets me connect albeit very very slowly. Did the 10mb download... took forever... no change. Just thought I would let folk know the new firmware doesn't fix this problem... at least in my case.

Well, I upgraded to the new '25' firmware and have tried it the last few days. The service has not improved at all and it still sucks. Even sometimes when I hit the 'disconnect/reconnect' button it actually takes longer now to finally connect again.

I have heard there is a supposed 'improvement' that Virgin are doing in August that is meant to help, has anyone else heard this? I certainly hope Virgin are finally are going to start spending some money on fixing/improving their shoddy service rather than just on marketing it, as they have been the last few months. It seems that they do not care about their existing customers, but only getting more customers which in turn degrades the service even more.

It appears they are just another company just focusing on 'numbers', rather than quality of service and product.

Shan

I had that problem with my old modem it took virgin forever to admit it was the modem finely after much going in circles they admitted it could be the modem so they sent me another one still not much better because it now has the umts and haspa problem if they offer you a get out of contract free take it there and then i was silly enough to say lets see what happens then when things haven improved they wont let me out like the have stated.

Things seems to have gone from bad to shithouse !
I am now experiencing what many others are experiencing.

When it shifts to HSDPA no more traffic goes through.
Running a continous ping sees all the pings fail. Hit the disconnect button throught the console webpage and you can set it connecting and then the ping window shows the pings all failing as well.
III's up to 5 minutes, I waited a few time just to see if it does recover but seriously you can't wait 5 minutes everytime it does that only to see it recover and then 2 minutes later you hit another III.
The searching problem is also more frequent now and have had to switch to GPRS a few times just to get internet at snails pace.

I just can't believe that a company can get away with crap like this, What does it take before the ACCC or anyone will act and help us poor consumers.

I going to write another letter to the ACCC and ask them what it will take for them to take some action.

OK, I thought I would give it a few more days to see what happens and now I am getting fed up. During the day it has improved a little but in the evenings it is getting unusable.

I just don't see why Virgin can't put in an option to force UMTS only, without HSDPA. Because the problems occur when it changes over to HSDPA and then a minute later it changes back.

I don't care about the speed difference. I would gladly sacrifice half of the speed for it to be reliable. Because I didn't sign up to VBB for high speed internet, if I wanted speed I would have gone cable.

Sadly enough, I was using dial up more than ten years ago that was far more reliable than this. The only time you got disconnected was if someone picked up a phone on the same line.

I wonder if it's worthwhile starting a poll on whether VBB customers are satisfied with the service or not?

Shan

Well iam finley free of virgin it took a lot of work and even a email to the TIO before they would let me go even though their service was poor atthe best of times even there upgrades did not improve anything.

This is my problem CONSTANTLY and has been for months now...

Sometimes it is virtually impossible to go on the net, as literally (and I'm NOT exaggerating here) every 10-30 seconds I'd have to be disconnecting/reconnecting and even that sometimes had to be done multiple times before the net would work again, and then after another 10-30 seconds the same problem would arise AGAIN. It's infuriating!

I sent a 4 page email of complaint to Virgin yesterday (when I had the net). Today I had no net access yet again. It was the exact same issue as last Wednesday and Friday (and some of Saturday), where it just won't connect (it just says "connecting" but won't connect). I heard on the news that this issue was the result of an Optus new software that had been rolled out the night before (Tuesday night), but then why would it cause the same problem Friday AND now this Friday again?? I had no net from 3pm until 9pm. That's RIDICULOUS!

I also had no phone on Wednesday from 3pm until 11pm and had to make a very important phone call on my Optus (not 3G) mobile (pre-paid) which cost me over $20 when it SHOULD have been free (an STD call which is included in my Virgin deal). HAH! SOME DEAL!

But that's beside the point.

In answer to Robert's initial questions (I'm interested to hear his reply to all of our answers by the way)...

1. I am on the not latest firmware, but the one previous to that. I upgraded a few weeks ago from the Virgin website.

2. I don't really download much. I just browse websites, generally surfing, etc. I find the worst dropouts occur after long (or not even very long at all) pauses in activity. Like right now for instance, when I'm writing this. Whenever I post something in a forum, I have over the past few months gotten into the habit of always copying what I've written, because 70% of the time it won't connect when I press "post" or whatever. I'll have to disconnect/reconnect and then re-post it, and after several times of having to re-type what I'd just said, I learned to copy and paste.

Although the dropouts when they're bad, happen pretty much whenever. All the time. I can literally get onto a website, and then I can click to go somewhere within the site, but any more than 1-2 clicks, and it'll dropout.

3. The dropouts can happen any time. Everyday seems to be different. Some days it's worst at night (after 8pm). Other days it's ok at night and really bad in the afternoon. I'm rarely ever on in the morning. I tend to use the net from 3pm onwards.

I'm in 4218 and apparently have several towers within a not too far distance, and am constantly on between -83 and -81 signal.

My problems seem to be similar @ 4154 (Wakerley)

I finally managed to troubleshoot the modem... and there are problems on the 3G side of the mobile network more than just the backhaul side problems IMHO.

Last weekend I gave the modem a pin up the backside to reset it, but with the known Optus problems I wasn't prepared to put much effort into troubleshooting.

Thursday I decided to pop the SIM back into the modem... all good, HDSPA connection (w00t!), then about 8:30pm.... dropped pings galore, no connection. Shut down, back to the tube.

Saturday morning I decided to have a crack fairly early (08:00 or so). Checked modem, apparently connected, but the modem could not get a ping result. So I went to the management console, checked the network settings, and of course the default is "automatic connection". Dang! Changed to always connected, tried again, same.

I did notice the modem switching from UMTS, disconnecting, then switching to GPRS while connecting before going to UMTS. So I tried "Automatic, GPRS preferred". No change.

I then tried "GPRS only". Bingo! while slow, this at least stopped the modem trying in vain to connect to the 3G signal. There were still the odd dropped pings but at least I finally got the laptop anti-virus updated! :-P

I agree Virgin seems to be getting worse with disconnections. One tries to live around it.
When you get through to them the service is good.
Whilst waiting the music is great, which is a lot more
you can say about other communications companies.

The wait messages etc they give out aren't authoritarian boring nor tedious, just normal everyday voices, and sounding like people are enjoying themselves.

They will get back to you when sending an email, and they are always nice about it.

And if they are having problems with their connections when you ring them, they have made the effort to tell you of the problem they are having, so you know not to keep hanging on. Thus you dont think there is something happening to your modem or you are the only one with the problem.

I have been with BigPond/ Telstra years ago, who ripped us off badly when we were first on the internet in the 90's ie. faulty meter problems they were in denial about.
Then Optus when they first came out. Then AAPT; hurrah out of the grip of the giants. Then SwiftDSL which were great until they got taken over by People. Their claim to fame was all the spam and brutish service to say the least. Finding Virgin I was able to savour their very good human service. Who wants to be bullied and spun out by mad people in telecommunications companies?

Okay Virgin disconnects a bit but life is a lot simpler, believe you me.

Yes we went into total atrophy with that 11 year long gov. that did virtually nothing, and restricted our development woefully. Think about it. It's going to take a while to catch up...

cheers,
Heathery

Heathery writes...

Yes we went into total atrophy with that 11 year long gov. that did virtually nothing, and restricted our development woefully. Think about it. It's going to take a while to catch up...

lol ok so now virgin's performance (for better or worse) has been linked to the change of federal government... *shakes head*

^elf^ writes...

*shakes head*

ditto

Skiffie writes...

I did notice the modem switching from UMTS, disconnecting, then switching to GPRS while connecting before going to UMTS. So I tried "Automatic, GPRS preferred". No change.

I then tried "GPRS only". Bingo! while slow, this

Hi Skiffie et al, Like you, I experienced this problem. Mine is fixed – so read on...

It started Wednesday the 30th of July (which I understand is when the network upgrades began). The problem continued through until Saturday the 9th with a brief flakey reception period on Monday the 4th. I finally contacted Virgin on Friday the 8th who took me through ALL of the various reset tricks, (pin, power, various modes) but could not resolve it. They stated that it should have been OK as from the 7th and ... I was convinced that it was a tower issue and needed resetting, they assured me it was not but had no other solution. I decided to get up and reposition my antenna to another cell to "prove it was the tower" and tried this on Saturday. To my surprise it was not a cell issue. All three available cells gave me the same response.

With the router set to "Automatic UTMS Preferred"
the response is: GPRS --> UMTS --> unknown
sometimes it will connect UTMS and stay there but no traffic occurs, sometimes it will go to "Connection failed please check your settings". Usually it will cycle through this sequence. You may not see the GPRS if the refresh does not occur at the right time, but I think it is always briefly getting to that connection and that is why sometimes a little bit of traffic gets through. If you set it to GPRS Only, then the connection is stable.

The FIX was that due to serendipitous circumstances, Virgin had sent me two routers to replace my original after I had upgraded it to the latest firmware in late June (long story about inadequate addressing of the first replacement). I had hung on to both. I figured that I'd wasted enough time chasing them and when they figured out that I had two (I had signed for it), that they would contact me to get it back.

Anyways, I remembered the second router in the cupboard, swapped it over and behold I am working better than at any time since November 2007. Interestingly, when I opened the second box, I realised that the first replacement had probably been a reconditioned router (it looked OK but the packaging was not as good as a new one), but this latest one seems to be newer.

My theory, and its just a theory, is that we are now seeing a NEW PROBLEM where some routers do not want to play ball with the upgraded network software. I think we may have a way to help check this out. On the bottom of the router are two barcoded numbers. They are different on different routers, but I bet there is something common with those that are not working on the new network software.

If all those who are experiencing this particular problem publish those numbers we may identify something about routers with a particular manufacturing sequence that are failing.

The numbers for my non-functional router are: GG3378VNP / 352375012193090

FWIW, I emailed Robert with this information yesterday. I have not yet had a response.

Dancing Bear writes...

My theory, and its just a theory, is that we are now seeing a NEW PROBLEM where some routers do not want to play ball with the upgraded network software.

I disagree, because the problem is affecting incoming/outgoing calls from Optus 3G phones as well. Any attempt to use the phone gives "Connection Error" unless locked to GSM instead of Auto. Consistent across all our work phones when it happens, all Nokias, mostly 6110 model.

richary writes...

Consistent across all our work phones when it happens, all Nokias, mostly 6110 model.

OK, so this just broadens the issue to some models of some products working with the upgrade and some not. Still worth identifying any common sequence of failing routers – might help narrow the problem down – e.g. common chipsets.

Ok so far to the best of my knowledge i think the main problem is 1 they don't revers dns
2 there time outs take so long
3 there network is massively overloaded
4 they don't give a hoot about the end user
so if you can get them to fix the first problem thing would improve a lot i think well it would be a start in the right direction

thebutcher writes...

Ok so far to the best of my knowledge i think the main problem is 1 they don't revers dns

I was shat on seriously in another thread because I dared to rubbish the Virgin DNS service as being a big part of the slow response problem. But I just reset my DNS settings to the Open DNS servers again and guess what. All my slow response times seem to have disappeared. Surprise, surprise. So unless you want adult sites try 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 as your DNS settings. You need to configure the router to use these rather than the defaults.

Getting a stable UMTS connection is my first problem though :-P

Skiffie writes...

Getting a stable UMTS connection is my first problem though :-P

Skiffie, ask them for a new modem. Just tell them that as yours cannot connect and it used to and you have tried everything else, that a new modem has to be worth a try. If they can't offer anything else, then they'd have to consider it.

This IS my second modem mate. ;-)

Skiffie writes...

This IS my second modem mate. ;-)

Yep and the one that works for me is my third!! I still think there are some duds out there and that they really have come to the fore since the network upgrade. Others may disagree with me about this theory, but I know what I saw and one that was working OK before the network upgrade started cycling GPRS-UMTS-unknown, etc and not working other than on GPRS after the network upgrade. The third one worked and within reason (III's, slow latency sometimes) continues to work at 640kbps speeds consistently.

What have you got to lose?

I don't know if I should post this, so early in my testing ... but here goes some preliminary observations.

The following is done on one of the original VBB@H modems, and was prompted by a casual observation of what a borrowed mobile plan modem that I borrowed from a relative, suggested from how it responded when I moved it around the house.

Take a classic low load internet time like 10.30AM Tuesday mornings. Un-optimise the modem reception so signal is at -96DBm.
The internet connection works very well.

Take a classic medium load internet time like 4.0PM on a week day (many school children have arrived home).
At -96DBm my connection is unusable with constant dropouts and massive IIIs.
Adjust modem for better reception so signal is at -83DBm.
The internet connection works very well again.

Take a classic heavy load time like 8.0PM on a week day when there is not much on the TV worth watching.
At -83DBm my connection is becoming very bad (frustrating) with substantial IIIs.
Fine tweak the modem and build a reasonable dish around the modem with old computer power supply cases, to increase signal up to -74DBm.
The internet connection works very well again.

It is looking like the signal has to be increased as the load increases on the tower.

Now comes the speculation .......
I believe it is not important what the signal strength happens to be at your modem end. I believe what is important is your actual signal strength at the tower end.

Lets take some arbitary numbers and talk in very crude generalities.
Lets say the tower can handle 10 internet connections at the one time.
Lets say there are 9 people using the internet ..... there is no problem at this point.

Now traffic increases and 11 people want to use the internet (those 10 channels) at the one time instant.
The tower has to assign some sort of priority.
It probably looks for the 10 strongest signals (it uses this to assume they are the closest users) and handels their traffic while it tries to pass the weakest signal (user 11) to another tower.
If you happen to be the weakest signal of the 11 users at that instant, then you will be mucked around with.
Now ... if you can make your signal strong enough so that you are one of the strongest 10 users, then one of the other SHMUCKS will be the one being mucked around with.
As more users come on line, it becomes harder and harder to make sure your signal is in the top 10 because there are more and more people coming on line that are probably in a better signal location to you.

Just because you may have a very strong signal, it will be of no value it there are too many others that have even stronger signals to your tower.

I doubt the problems people are having has anything major to do with the equipment. I believe it is totally to do with overloading a limited service.

I will do some more testing on the weekend when congestion is real bad for my location.

If the above holds true, then it is a dog eat dog world for us Virgin BB users .... and you will NOT hear about the results, as I don't want to spoil it for myself.

If I have to, I will do whatever it takes to keep pushing my signal up into the very few strongest signals to my tower and too hell with the rest .... let the others fight it out amongst themselves ...... and when my contract is over in a years time, then Optus and Virgin will never see me again.

If a person honestly thinks that the technical people at Optus/Virgin still do not know what the problem is within their network after more than 6 months, then they better think twice about their own sanity.

sydbod writes...

If a person honestly thinks that the technical people at Optus/Virgin still do not know what the problem is within their network after more than 6 months, then they better think twice about their own sanity.

Whatever our various theories and ideas are. This statement has to be true. They must know what is going on by now .

Sydbod I believe you are absolutely correct-
overloaded limited services is the basic
problem,
That fits in with my theory!
Providers are selling the leftovers
from Telstra and Optus, and likely quite
knowingy selling more plans than they can service- everyone's slice of the pie gets smaller and smaller.
Peak times little pie left of course,
But that wont stop them selling more and more,
When people leave in disgust they dont care,
(there are plenty more suckers where they came from arent there.)

I suspect this is how the industry operates,
not just VBB,

correct me if I have this wrong.

pinkfan writes...

But that wont stop them selling more and more,
When people leave in disgust they dont care,

I noticed a big half-page ad for VBB@H in the TeleChoice brochure which came in my junk mail a few days ago. They're still pushin' the product!!!

I suspect this is how the industry operates,
not just VBB,

correct me if I have this wrong.

No, I think you're right. A relative of mine works as a financial counsellor for local govts in her capital city. Her job is to negotiate with companies who have poor schmucks (frequently new to Australia, and so easy targets) over a barrel with payments they cannot afford. She says the telco's are the worst, along with one of the big banks.... I won't mention any names of companies, although she did.

pinkfan writes...

Providers are selling the leftovers
from Telstra and Optus, and likely quite
knowingy selling more plans than they can service- everyone's slice of the pie gets smaller and smaller

Yep, most certainly true and lets not forget that a big part of the problem is that everyone is touting 3G as a solution to inadequate Broadband Services and because we are all desparate, we buy it. The demand is there and people keep falling for it because of a lack of alternatives. The areas where Virgin are most oversold are all rimmed or otherwise broadband desert areas.

sydbod writes...

As more users come on line, it becomes harder and harder to make sure your signal is in the top 10 because there are more and more people coming on line that are probably in a better signal location to you.

The issue of towers selecting the best signals has been posted a number of times by myself and others in the Virgin forums earlier this year and in 2007. The "smoking gun" for me was comparing my Virgin performance with a neighbour who wasn't using an antenna, mine still "worked" in the evening peak (I use the term "worked" loosely). Only thing you are not considering is time. 10 slots in a cell can supposedly support 30 or 40 web browsing customers as they are only requesting data some of the time (in theory, and thats why Virgin hates P2P as it chews 100% of a channel).
Interesting thing is that Capping people to 64 or 128 kbps is actually making the problem worse to a certain extent as channels are utilised for 5x to 10x as long for the same webpage.

I have the same problem ! I spend more time wrestling with this modem trying to get it to work than I do on the internet. It is consuming too much of my time its just not worth it anymore.

Sometimes I feel so frustrated I want to go postal. I experience the same problems. Sometimes when I hit disconnect/reconnect it connects straight to HSDPA and I know I'm screwed. It's horrible at peak times, and better (though not stable) in the late late night.

The main reason for my frustration is that I work full time and have made numerous attempts to contact helpdesk after 6pm when I am available, but have never ever got through. Usually I get disconnected after anywhere from 35 mins – 1.5 hours on hold. This has been since April when my connection difficulties had first declined to the point of wanting to do something about it (and have steadily been declining since).

I recently tried emailing, but have not received any reply yet. I've exhausted the troubleshooting guides. I have had outages of up to 24 hours where I just haven't been able to connect at all. Not being able to speak to anyone at Virgin about it just makes it all feel worse. I mean Virgin can't help me if I don't let them know I'm having problems, but how do I let them know if I can't get through on their support line?

To give an example of how unusable my connection is, more often than not gmail tells me that my "internet connection is experiencing problems or your network administrator has disabled chat" because my connection is too slow to connect to the chat feature. Other times I am having to disconnect/reconnect, sometimes consecutively, sometimes every minute or two due to losing the connection. It often takes several attempts to load a web page. What is consistent is that these problems are every day.

despondent writes...

I have had outages of up to 24 hours where I just haven't been able to connect at all. Not being able to speak to anyone at Virgin about it just makes it all feel worse. I mean Virgin can't help me if I don't let them know I'm having problems, but how do I let them know if I can't get through on their support line?

Catch 22 for us, and them. We can't get through to get a solution, so we think they are bad, while they don't get a chance to see the true picture. Lose-lose.

despondent, I hope you document all of the outages / drop-outs / trouble-shooting measures taken. Thinks like ping results (documents failure to connect) and speed tests (documents performance when connected) form your basis to exit the contract.

Good luck! :-)