Whirlpool

I am being forced onto BigPond by my boss.

Not my choice, and it will cost twice as much, but I won't be paying for it :)

Now I find out I have to pay $49 just to disconnect from Adam?
Even though I am keeping my ADSL2+ on at the same exchange?
After more than three years of loyal patronage and wearing the price rises?

Not impressed. Can't remember reading that anywhere when I signed up.

zzymurgy writes...

Now I find out I have to pay $49 just to disconnect from Adam?
Even though I am keeping my ADSL2+ on at the same exchange?

You're going to be disconnected from our ADSL2+ equipment, and then connected to Telstra's ADSL2+ equipment, and it isn't the same equipment – the wires have to be moved, and some human has to go and do it, and, of course, they aren't going to do it for free (and if you see what sort of work they do, and how many they do in a row, I think paying them for not going nuts is worthwhile :-) )

Not impressed. Can't remember reading that anywhere when I signed up.

Your work should pay, that's a cost incurred by your company forcing you to move to Bigpond, so it should be their cost to pay.

zzymurgy writes...

Can't remember reading that anywhere when I signed up.

It was pretty prominent in the T+C's as well as always being on Adam's website under 'Potential Additional Costs'. Used to be double that price, but thanks to an ACCC decision was reduced. As Mark said, it's a Telstra fee that Adam pass on to the customer if they disconnect from an Adam DSLAM and have to be physically put back onto Telstra's equipment.

http://www.adam.com.au/products_home_adam_direct.php
AdamDirect Network Access Fee $45
Unlike standard ADSL, AdamDirect (ADSL2+) runs on our own private network. A fee is required to reinstate your line to a standard telephone network. Once your AdamDirect service is disconnected or cancelled this fee is payable. An option is available to pre-pay this Network Access fee at the start time of sign-up if you desire.

When adam first released adsl2 it wasnt in the contract. Adam shafted the early adopters by adding it into the contract at a later stage with a price rise and the only option out was to pay the disconnection fee.

The fanbois will tell you how you have agreed to the new contract allready. Bad luck.

Joker writes...

When adam first released adsl2 it wasnt in the contract.

But it did state that the most up to date T&C was found on their website, and that if your printed version was if different to the online version, then the online version was the one to be referred to.

zzymurgy writes...

Can't remember reading that anywhere when I signed up.

Maybe you don't remember seeing $49 because it used to be $90
http://web.archive.org/web/20070619002823/http://www.adam.com.au/products_home_adam_direct.php

So it could be worse..

« Mark R Smith » writes...

human has to go and do it

That's the main point, a human has to do it. Last time I had an electrician called into my place to play with a few hours it cost around 50 bucks for 30 minutes of fiddling around, so the 50 for disconnection sounds about right. Even if it only takes the technician 5 minutes to do the job, you still have to consider that he had to drive there (though "had to drive there" has never appeared on any home repair bills), Adam needs to pay taxes on the disconnection fee you give them and taxes need to be taken on the technicians income itself.

It would be nice if Adam could absorb the cost of disconnection if you join up for a year+ contract, but Adams computers probably wont allow it. Seriously, even if Adam WANTED to give you the disconnection for free they probably wouldn't be able to because (and I'm paraphrasing here) "computer says no". Lol, one time I even wanted to give adam twice the amount they charge for a monthly plan just for 50 percent extra quota, but computer said no so I had to keep my money and Adam had to keep his extra quota :S Seems like literally no amount of love or money can get you what you want these days.

Danny don't you think the "computer says no" phrase is getting a little old. How many other ISPs do you know that you can just customise what you want whenever you want it? Think it's time to move on dude and come to terms that computer can't always say yes.

Joker writes...

When adam first released adsl2 it wasnt in the contract.

I signed up in 2005, and the closest I can get is this version from December 2005. It says I have to pay out my remaining contract if I want to disconnect.

Mr.T writes...

if your printed version was if different to the online version, then the online version was the one to be referred to.

So Adam has the right to change the contract and up the fees just by changing the online version? I think a contract lawyer would be very amused by that one.

Fnomnal writes...

Maybe you don't remember seeing $49 because it used to be $90
http://web.archive.org/web/20070619002823/http://www.adam.com.au/products_home_adam_direct.php

So it could be worse..

And before it was $90 it was $O IIRC.

So it could be better :)

Disconnect fees really shit me. $49 thats ~1.5 hours for a pleb to go plug a plug. Must drive dam slow to get to the exchanges :) OR driving V12's that chew fuel :)

zzymurgy writes...

I think a contract lawyer would be very amused by that one.

Interestingly enough, given the poor work of the last T&C they are either sneaky or stupid, so if they are also the defense council you could probably win with that first lawyer dude from the Castle :)

zzymurgy writes...

So Adam has the right to change the contract and up the fees just by changing the online version?

Thats what it says here in that document that you would have had to agree to. A contract lawyer might find it interesting, agreed... but as I see it, if you weren't happy with it, why did you agree to it and not question it at the time? Its right near the top of the document...

Adam Internet Terms Document

http://web.archive.org/web/20051231164722/www.adam.com.au/pdf/home/terms.pdf
3. Adam Internet Pty Ltd reserves the right to change charging, terms and conditions without notice, in order to cover any price increases such as Telstra and other service providers. You agree to indemnify and hold Adam Internet Pty Ltd, its parents, subsidiaries, affiliates, officers and employees, harmless from any claim, demand, or damage, including reasonable solicitors fees, asserted by any third party due to or arising out of your use of or conduct on the Service.

And for what its worth, its $45 not $49. Checked that up too.

Stalin writes...

$49 thats ~1.5 hours for a pleb to go plug a plug.

Not really, only Telstra technicians and approved technicians can go near an MDF in a telephone exchange without commiting a federal offence, so really they can charge what the like (well, at least what the ACCC will allow them to.)

I doubt any jumper tech sees much more than a few cents from that $49, it seems more a cost to keep Telstra's mamoth cable records up to date.

Darkhound writes...

... in order to cover any price increases such as Telstra and other service providers.

We've just heard that this is not a Telstra or other service provider's charge. It's Adam's own network – that's the whole point of the charge.

Maybe WP users would like adam to roll the $49.00 into their monthly adsl? Which is what the majority of other providers do. I think not....

b00stin33 writes...

Which is what the majority of other providers do.

Not true. The majority of other providers have signed up to SST so don't have to pay the fee at all.

Queeg 500 writes...

The majority of other providers have signed up to SST so don't have to pay the fee at all.

So SST doesn't require physical connection/disconnection and a tech to go to the exchange?

Fnomnal writes...

So SST doesn't require physical connection/disconnection and a tech to go to the exchange?

Yes an exchange visit is required, but the SST fee more than covers that work.

So there is still a fee? Which, generally, is how much?

Is it cheaper than doing an Adam disconnect/free setup with another ISP?

If not, not much difference monetary-wise apart from what name we call the fee :)

(and yes, I'm aware of the associated benefits of SST, but I'm talking fees here)

Yeah, how is progress going on those negotiations with Telstra regarding SST?

Last word was March of 2007 (I think).

b00stin33 writes...

Maybe WP users would like adam to roll the $49.00 into their monthly adsl? Which is what the majority of other providers do.

I would have done this happily. I've been with Adam for 36 months which means I'd be paying $1.36111111111111 per month.

What's the difference then, you'd still have paid the fee (and that would be assuming that you were going to leave when you signed on!).

You also had the option to pre-pay it: 'An option is available to pre-pay this Network Access fee at the start time of sign-up if you desire.'

http://www.adam.com.au/products_home_adam_direct.php

if you signed a contract that did not suggest that you had to pay $90 disconnection fee or a $49 disconnection fee then i'd tell them to go jump

they cannot force you to pay if they have changed their terms and conditions during your contract period.

its almost like you going to buy a car from a dealer, paying for it, and telling them you will come back later to pick it up
only to get there and they have changed their pricing as a new and cheaper model has come in

wont stand a chance in court
also note

if you refuse to pay it, it will goto a debt recovery team, generally they will slap on their half, 25% or so of the initial fee
if all negotiations there fail they will lodge a bad credit rating, but my understanding is that anything under $200 and its not worth it, as it costs companies $200 to lodge the credit rating to file

Tex writes...

You also had the option to pre-pay it

Tex, there's not much point referring to the current website when the website at the time made no such mention (it didn't mention the fee anywhere so why would it refer to pre-paying it?).

http://web.archive.org/web/20050622033716/adsl2.adam.com.au/

The old, and new, Adam websites also don't mention SST anywhere yet that was (unsurprisingly) brought up!

Again, people can disconnect at $45 and sign up on a $0 setup plan with another ISP if they choose. As an example, SST costs $88 with Internode. Of course they don't offer $0 setup plans (wow, $129 12 month contract as the only option) so it would have to be elsewhere to get the value.

Tex writes...

The old, and new, Adam websites also don't mention SST anywhere yet that was (unsurprisingly) brought up!

You said something that is patently incorrect – You also had the option to pre-pay it and tried to use the existing website to support it. SST was brought up because it was a material fact in debunking b00stin33's incorrect claim.

Of course they don't offer $0 setup plans (wow, $129 12 month contract as the only option) so it would have to be elsewhere to get the value.

Where? I did a broadband choice search and came up with exactly one provider that offers $0 setup for ADSL2+ in SA (AAPT Business).

Queeg 500 writes...

SST was brought up because it was a material fact in debunking b00stin33's incorrect claim.

b00stin33 mentioned other ISP's absorbing the Telstra network access fee into their plan prices...and you immediately made the jump to SST. Are you saying there are no current ISP's that do this, regardless of those signed up to SST?

Queeg 500 writes...

The majority of other providers have signed up to SST so don't have to pay the fee at all.

That blatantly makes it sound as though it is 'fee-free', which it is not. As an example, Internode charge $88 as their SST fee.

Where? I did a broadband choice search and came up with exactly one provider that offers $0 setup for ADSL2+ in SA (AAPT Business).

Practise your Whirlpool search skills then...

This shows me 187 ADSL2+ plans available in SA with $0 setup fees :)

WP seems to be more and more about rant sessions toward ISPs more than anything else.

Adam, roll the charge into the monthly plans or make it an initial setup fee. There are simply too many sooks out there.

Queeg 500 writes...

Where? I did a broadband choice search and came up with exactly one provider that offers $0 setup for ADSL2+ in SA (AAPT Business).

Um... if that's the case then the broadband choice search is clearly wrong.
ISP 1: Adam, ADSL2+ setup @ $0 on a 24 month contract, including modem.

ISP 2: Chariot, ADSL2+ setup @ $0 on an 18 month contract, NOT including modem.

ISP 3: Dodo, ADSL2+ setup @ $0 on a 24 month contract, from what I can determine, not including a modem.

ISP 4: Netspace, ADSL2+ setup @ $0 on a 24 month contract, no modem included, except under a current special which does get a free modem.

ISP 5: TPG, ADSL2+ setup @ $0 on an 18 month contract, no modem included.

Those are 5 specific examples selected at random (except obviously for Adam given the specific relevance) from the ISPs list in BC. As Tex linked above, there are plenty more.

b00stin33 writes...

WP seems to be more and more about rant sessions toward ISPs more than anything else.

Well it is the Australian broadband discussion forums.

or make it an initial setup fee

They have. Pay it when you sign up if you want, or not at all if you never intend leaving. Although I do find it strange people wanting to pay a disconnection fee when they first sign up to a new ISP!?!

Tex writes...

b00stin33 mentioned other ISP's absorbing the Telstra network access fee into their plan prices...and you immediately made the jump to SST.

There is no 'jump'. The fact is that if a provider is signed up to SST and Bigpond is not then there is no cancellation fee regardless of whether you're churning to another provider using SST or just disconnecting. Ref: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/802154/fromItemId/142

That blatantly makes it sound as though it is 'fee-free', which it is not.

SST is not the issue – disconnecting is. As an example, if/when I disconnect my Internode ADSL2+ connection, Internode will not be charged a fee by Telstra for that disconnection.

Practise your Whirlpool search skills then...

Why? I'm not planning on switching ISPs ;-) I merely entered the parameters into http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/?action=search and hit 'Find all suitable plans'. It's not my fault if that search didn't produce accurate results.

Queeg 500 writes...

There is no 'jump'. The fact is that if a provider is signed up to SST

What has that 'fact' got to do with Adam, which is the OP's ISP? How does it specifically apply to this thread or to his question?

SST is not the issue – disconnecting is.

Exactly. See above.

Why?

Why?! Because don't pull out the 'there's only one ISP that offers $0 setup in SA' nonsense when not only is it blatantly and obviously wrong (you honestly thought only one ISP offered $0 setup?!), but you have a go at others for being incorrect.

Really, only posting in the Adam forums to rub people's face in the fact Adam don't offer SST is is becoming quite tiresome.

Tex writes...

What has that 'fact' got to do with Adam, which is the OP's ISP? How does it specifically apply to this thread or to his question?

It has to do with the fact that b00stin33 was making incorrect statements! Who benefits if incorrect statements are left uncorrected? I would suggest, no-one.

'there's only one ISP that offers $0 setup in SA'

I didn't say that – I said I did a broadband choice search and came up with exactly one provider that offers $0 setup for ADSL2+ in SA (AAPT Business). I accept that the search that I based that on returned incorrect results, but that's not my fault and I included the search string so that others could see the basis for my statement (and unlike some people I'm happy to be corrected when I get something wrong).

As an aside, you seem to be implying that I should have used blatantly rather than patently in my posts – they are different words with different meanings, although some definitions of the two words could overlap in this context, and my use of patently was entirely correct.

Really, only posting in the Adam forums to rub people's face in the fact Adam don't offer SST

I did no such thing.

Queeg 500 writes...

It has to do with the fact that b00stin33 was making incorrect statements!

Maybe he should have said 'some ISP's who used to absorb the Telstra network access fee into their prices and have now joined the SST process, didn't lower their plan fees to reflect the absence of this fee but instead introduced an extra fee that now isn't absorbed into their monthly prices' :)

As I said, if purely monetary reasons are behind the OP's, and others, complaints (as downtime isn't mentioned) then it is still cheaper to disconnect from Adam for $45 and sign up to one of the 187 plans that offer $0 setup.

I said I accept that the search that I based that on returned incorrect results

And, I repeat, you honestly believed that there was only *one* ISP offering $0 setup? You accept everything you read without prior experience/knowledge/intelligence playing a role?! :)

I did no such thing.

In your mind of course (although I'd doubt you'd even really believe that). Past posting history suggests otherwise.

Tex writes...

And, I repeat, you honestly believed that there was only *one* ISP offering $0 setup?

I had no prior knowledge of the topic so I used a generally reliable resource to gain information... it's as simple as that.

You accept everything you read without prior experience/knowledge/intelligence playing a role?! :)

Of course not, otherwise I would believe that the Network Access Fee has been in the terms and conditions and listed on the website since Adam started offering ADSL2+ (which is what your posts suggest).

Queeg 500 writes...

I had no prior knowledge of the topic

5 ½ years on Whirlpool, nearly 8000 posts, frequent other ISP forums and you had no prior knowledge of the topic that some ISP's offer $0 setup fees?!!!?? OK.

otherwise I would believe that the Network Access Fee has been in the terms and conditions and listed on the website since Adam started offering ADSL2+ (which is what your posts suggest).

Does it? To me it reads that the network access fee was pretty prominent in the T+C's...of course I didn't specify how many years back that comment applied to though.

Gee, I think a more interesting topic of conversation is why ISP's who no longer have to pass on a Telstra network access fee, which was previously absorbed into their plan fees, didn't reduce their prices to reflect that? But of course that's for other ISP forums to debate if they wish :)

Tex writes...

Does it?

Yes, they do.

To me it reads that the network access fee was pretty prominent in the T+C's...of course I didn't specify how many years back that comment applied to though.

You were replying to a poster who had joined three years ago (at a time when the fee was completely absent from all Adam documentation).
/forum-replies.cfm?t=1006496&p=2#r22

Queeg 500 writes...

Yes, they do.

Honestly, *please* use Google search to back up your comments. You might be surprised what you dig up :)

zzymurgy writes...

Can't remember reading that anywhere when I signed up.

Neither could I. But Adam has publicised their newer T+C's plenty of times, including prominently when they had an overhaul a few months (year?) ago.

If the OP has a problem, take it up with Telstra. Use your savings when you move to them from "I won't be paying for" your free ADSL2+:)

Hi, My2c time again!

(I love this segment of each thread. Its always the most entertaining although Tex and Queeg's argument has been impressive)

Okay, Time to bore you all crazy with this information..

Add an extra fee, I think its roughly $1.80 extra per month to cover the cost of the disconnection over 24 months. However that will only work out for people who disconnect exactly 2 years after connecting plus the prices of the plan goes up so Adam will probably lose some customers to other companies offering the "same" services for less dosh, no?

Not to mention if people disconnect before that 2 years is up, Adam Internet make a loss and if people leave a long time after that 24 months, they can be in a particularly disavatageous situation as they would be paying extra for something already paid off.

I havent yet mentioned that if the price changed, like it did previously from $90 disconnect to the $45, the plan price would go down no doubt to reflect the lesser charges however customers would NOT be refunded what they have already paid.

Plus, its not just a case of applying the difference to all plans, it would apply to ADSL2+ only. Although maybe it should also be added to the ADSL1 plans as theres a $65 fee to disconnect within 6 months. Perhaps you would also like that bundled into the plan? Its only an extra $10.83 extra each month and it'd suck if you were not to disconnect after that 6 months with the plan change rolling on.

And before you attack me saying why dont they stop the extra charges after you've reached the $45 limit... I dont run a company etc... but dont you think it would be a billing and administration nightmare to put each customer on their own individual plan to reflect the changes, calculate whatever charges remain when the user disconnects before they've paid the $45 fee and then if a customer over pays for a long time, refund all the money that was overpaid?

TBH its probably wayyyy too much work for not enough gain.

The way I see it, is if you want stuff like that to happen, phone up Adam and see if you can pre pay it in monthly charges etc. Like $10 for 4 months and $5 for the last month or something but its entirely up to them if they do that. If it were me i'd be reading the website upon signing up which its listed on and I would read the contract tip to toe. If I was uncertain about anything in the contract, i'd enquire.

Anyway, that was my 2c

It's $45. Who really cares! $90 was more of an issue.
If I were to disconnect I'd have a pretty good reason, so wouldn't care about $45.

Fnomnal writes...

If I were to disconnect I'd have a pretty good reason, so wouldn't care about $45.

Yeah, I feel the same way, so not really an issue for me.

Darkhound writes...

although Tex and Queeg's argument has been impressive

Ha, interesting to say the least! :)

Add an extra fee

I can't believe people are asking for an extra fee!?! What about those people who don't plan on leaving/disconnecting?

I think the option to either pre-pay it, or pay it when you actually disconnect appears fine. Just put away the money you saved for choosing Adam over Internode's $129 connection fee and you'll be fine :)

Tex writes...

I can't believe people are asking for an extra fee!?

Agreed. If you want to pay it by the month... ever thought of investing in a $2 piggy bank? Put in like, $10 each week. You'll pay off the NAF in the first month almost and once your in the habit, its a good habit to have (keeping some extra money aside) for those random things that pop up unexpectedly... like anniversarys :)

Honestly, $10 a week x 52 weeks in a year = $520. Lol. (Incase you cant do times tables or operate a calculator effectively and do anything but type in 58008 and turn it upside down)

$49 isn't much of an issue now as i am being 'merged' into Adam via BettaMomentum and they had a $90 disconnect fee. :| sheesh.. $90 ...

It's more of a commercial issue – ignoring the rights and wrongs for a second, it's kinda not cool to lock people in with a "disconnection fee". It would be a much more consumer-friendly business model to absorb those costs into Adam's business in a less direct way.

As for some of the contract law stuff, as it happens IAAL and yes, "contracts" which allow one party to unilaterally change their terms are inherently suspect and likely to be void in whole or in part unless they are very carefully constructed and limited. Of course finding the money to take someone on in court over what is a relatively small amount of money is the really hard part.

But it did state that the most up to date T&C was found on their website, and that if your printed version was if different to the online version, then the online version was the one to be referred to.

This means nothing, really. Adam don't get to decide what the contract means any more than the customer does. If the online terms and conditions suddenly indicate that the customer has to pay Adam $1,000,000 a month, that doesn't automagically become part of the agreement.

Telstra have had problems with their T&C before – as I recall, they have to give customers the right to terminate without penalty when they make substantial changes to them.

-deleted-

in the eyes of the law

an agreement is an agreement, whether its written or verbal
its a contract

nobody can change a contract until the given contract term is up

period

Patrick Bateman writes...

It would be a much more consumer-friendly business model to absorb those costs into Adam's business in a less direct way.

Friendly, Yes.
Supportive of the lower prices that Adam offer, I would assume not really.
Ideal for most cases, not likely.

Reason? Refer to my post before about charging their customers extra.

Telstra have had problems with their T&C before – as I recall, they have to give customers the right to terminate without penalty when they make substantial changes to them.

I would be surprised if Adam wouldnt consider the same thing... especially if they were to do something as stupid as this:

If the online terms and conditions suddenly indicate that the customer has to pay Adam $1,000,000 a month

=]

Darkhound writes...

I would be surprised if Adam wouldnt consider the same thing.

They may have considered it, but they didn't do it – see http://www.whirlpool.net.au/news/?id=1601

Considered and didn't do what?

Tex writes...

Considered and didn't do what?

Patrick Bateman writes...

give customers the right to terminate without penalty when they make substantial changes to them.

(the quoted text that Darkhound was replying to)

I'm so glad I've started a healthy discussion, petty gibes notwithstanding.

Adam has been a good provider to me, and true, $45 is not a lot of money.

But the problem I have is that at no time did Adam point out to me that they had suddenly started charging a fee TO DISCONNECT.

It's like going to the supermarket, buying a few items for reasonable prices, and being charged a fee to use the door to leave, 'because things have changed' and they forgot to tell you when you entered.

zzymurgy writes...

It's like going to the supermarket, buying a few items for reasonable prices, and being charged a fee to use the door to leave, 'because things have changed' and they forgot to tell you when you entered.

I think it's a good example. I am constantly surprised by the willingness of people here to just lap up whatever ISPs do to them, especially when it can be attributed one way or another to Telstra. However, I'd add to your example- it's like all of the above happening, and the explanation being "our landlord has put the rent up a bit so we're going to charge you".

I assume the same people would be standing with their wallets open handing over cash in your supermarket example saying, "It's not a lot of money, I'm glad I didn't have to pay it up front when I came in."

I just think it is so unprofessional to pass particular outgoing charges directly on to your customers. Businesses should charge customers one clear price which actually relates to the service YOU provide to them. Your own costs of doing business should be built into those charges, not added on top like parking fines.

Rent is not a per-customer charge.

Patrick Bateman writes...

I just think it is so unprofessional to pass particular outgoing charges directly on to your customers. Businesses should charge customers one clear price which actually relates to the service YOU provide to them. Your own costs of doing business should be built into those charges, not added on top like parking fines.

Personally I have no problem with it. I understand why the charge is there, but it doesn't bother me at all because I have no intention of leaving. Consider the benefit you've already had by not having to pay it until now?

One of the things that was a major attraction with Adam was their comparatively cheaper pricing, If they don't include that $45 fee in the monthly charges as a means of helping to keep the ongoing cost of my plan down, that's great!

Not to mention that it is of greater benefit to me for them to do that and for me to retain the money on a monthly basis. In the long run you are better off, assuming you've been with Adam for any reasonable amount of time.

As for not knowing about the Network Access Fee, well people must have been living under a rock. I certainly got an email notifying me of the latest changes to the T&C's earlier in the year and I'm sure it was included in there.

Fnomnal writes...

Rent is not a per-customer charge.

It's just an example. Plenty of other outgoings do change directly with the number of customers you have. Change it to the salary of an extra cashier needed because of the number of customers if you like.

Aus-Archer writes...

Personally I have no problem with it. I understand why the charge is there, but it doesn't bother me at all because I have no intention of leaving. Consider the benefit you've already had by not having to pay it until now?

Which is great unless you need to move house, or unless someone else becomes more competitive and attractive to you than Adam, at which point it becomes a device to prevent competition – any rival company has to both be more appealing than Adam and also make it worth your while to pay the $45.

I like Adam generally, but I strongly dislike this policy on principle.

Patrick Bateman writes...

Which is great unless you need to move house, or unless someone else becomes more competitive and attractive to you than Adam, at which point it becomes a device to prevent competition – any rival company has to both be more appealing than Adam and also make it worth your while to pay the $45.

I don't believe that it becomes a device to prevent competition. If another ISP is offering a deal good enough to warrant changing ISP, whether it be in terms of monetary value or benefits gained in speed or download limits, then you will recover the cost of the $45 fee within a fairly short period of time.

Of course there is always the money you've already saved through not having to pay that fee monthly as a part of you Plan with Adam and the benefits that having that extra money on a monthly basis has bought you over time.

Any decision made with regards to selection of an ISP should be made with the "Long term" picture in mind. This is a short term fee, that, once calculated into your other costs, disappears in savings already made, or to be gained in changing ISP's.

Lal yes. GG Patrick Bateman, instead of customers paying the NAF Adam could raise their plans to compensate for that. But then you'd just complain about that as well.

People seem to forget that ISP's are companies, not charities.

Solymr writes...

People seem to forget that ISP's are companies, not charities.

You've completely missed the point.

I would be more than willing to pay the fee if it had ever appeared in a contract I had explicitly agreed to.

I understand that ISPs have to pass on charges. But if they can't advise what those charges are upfront, they shouldn't have their hand out.

By the way I have today agreed to pay the damn fee. I hope that in a few years time when I need ADSL2+ again, ISPs will stop passing the buck and just tell me what it costs.

Which is great unless you need to move house, or unless someone else becomes more competitive and attractive to you than Adam, at which point it becomes a device to prevent competition

Actually you don't need to pay the NAF if you relocate to another area and go on AdamDirect at the new place, you just pay the standard relocation fee.. Should ADAM just increase the setup costs of all AdamDirect connections by $45 and not give you a choice instead? You can save at least $25 off the setup fee just by going on a 6 month contract, more if you commit to a longer period.

Minotaur writes...

just increase the setup costs of all AdamDirect connections by $45 and not give you a choice instead?

I beleive they give you a choice of paying it upfront when you sign up, so you dont get a nasty surprise when you leave :)