Whirlpool

TL;DR: Paragraphs in order of importance: First, last, third-last.

I was wondering if I could collect some thoughts on the effectiveness of cold-calling (ie. contacting a potential employer with no specific or relevant positions listed) when searching for work, in particular in the IT field where the person searching is reasonably experienced (around 10 years). I am most interested in this in terms of effort/reward.

In my personal experience only (this probably does not generalise), if I was to list the effective means of getting from nowhere to either an interview or an offer, from most to least, my list would be:

1. Personal contacts / recommendation / being headhunted
2. Good recruiters
3. Detailed application for advertised position
(bit of a gap)
4. Rushed application for advertised position
5. Poor recruiters
(gigantic chasm here)
6. Cold-calling or doing nothing at all

Or a pseudo-graphical approximation:

123---4--5---------------------------------------6

In my personal experience, I have never gotten further than a confirmation of receipt (and sometimes not even that) off of a cold-call. Not a single interview, ever. Yet, when applying for specific positions, or even dealing with really dodgy recruiters, I've received a range of interviews and offers. Now I know that it happens, sometimes cold-calling works. However, I have to admit that most of the stories I've heard of have been in the case where the person wasn't really experienced in the area, but did something a little bizarre or crazy that caught the employer's attention. And in each case, I've never known the person directly, it's just been a story online. My anecdotal data is sadly poor, since I've only ever bothered cold-calling in a weaker economy, and have not always been looking for a full-time position when I have. Hence asking for the thoughts of a wider audience.

So, the main thing I'd like to ask is: For experienced people applying for work, has cold-calling been effective for you at all? For employers (actual, real employers, not people playing one online) ;) have you ever looked at a *direct* cold-call application and made a position to suit, or dug through the existing cold-called applications for say the last few months and contacted someone that seemed to suit a pending position? Basically, has cold-calling worked for you, or was it useless? If it's not too much trouble, if you mentioned your location (eg. state) and roughly when as well, it would be most appreciated. Economic conditions vary somewhat based on these things, and that affects the market, of course.

My ulterior motive for asking is that I am trying to pick up short-term or part-time work (not full-time), in order to support myself through a personal project. I'm not in a big hurry (yet), so my current plan is to cold-call a bunch of places (the more desirable ones first), on the offchance that their internal HR areas somehow get them on to the right people. If that doesn't work (hasn't thus far, but I've only recently begun), then I plan to move on to recruiters and/or body shops. I've been wondering recently if phase one of my plan is actually a waste of time. Hence my question.

NB: Whilst completely irrelevant to the topic, in order to save the thread before it begins, ;) I'll add that this is from the perspective of someone who is *not* in receipt of benefits (eg. Newstart/dole), nor from the perspective of someone who is short of productive things to do. If you're here looking to beat up a strawman, kick the unemployed, or call anyone lazy, could you please find another thread? Cheers. ;)

Garthy writes...

particular in the IT field where the person searching is reasonably experienced (around 10 years). I am most interested in this in terms of effort/reward.

Would depend on what particular area of IT you were talking about, What reasonably experienced means in terms of actual qualifications, where they have worked before and whether they were after a FT or contract gig.

Monty Burns writes...

Would depend on what particular area of IT you were talking about, What reasonably experienced means in terms of actual qualifications, where they have worked before and whether they were after a FT or contract gig.

Naturally the result could change based on these factors. What have your experiences been, personally?

Garthy writes...

In my personal experience only (this probably does not generalise), if I was to list the effective means of getting from nowhere to either an interview or an offer, from most to least, my list would be:

1. Personal contacts / recommendation / being headhunted

2. Good recruiters

3. Detailed application for advertised position

(bit of a gap)

4. Rushed application for advertised position

5. Poor recruiters

(gigantic chasm here)

6. Cold-calling or doing nothing at all

personal contacts and recommendations between people will get you a job.

as for the rest of the list you have to trust a stranger to do there job or find some info or person to get the position. if your doing 4 or 6 your just wasting your time.

undermine writes...

personal contacts and recommendations between people will get you a job.

This is certainly the most effective thing, in my experience (see list in the original post for more detail).

I've had offers off of (4) myself, but as mentioned, never really got anywhere with (6). For (6) at least, I *suspect* you may be right, which is why I'm posting and asking for people's experiences. Should I assume that you've had no luck with cold-calling either?

Garthy writes...

Should I assume that you've had no luck with cold-calling either?

employers are sick of cold-calling it has been pushed as first tool for job seeking from the 1980's.

I got my first job in IT 10 years ago via a cold call. After basically giving up after applying for heap of jobs and getting mucked around by agents, I sat down with the yellow pages and called every IT company near me and asked to speak to a manager. Eventually I got onto one who I had a long chat with and he asked how soon I could come in for an interview..2 days later I started a helpdesk job, a year later was working on client sites and the rest is history as they say.

Now as a manager/employer I get cold calls every day for all sorts of things. If someone happens to call at the right time that I need something (or someone) they might be in luck. I always take the time to listen (although end it immediately if irrelevant).

undermine writes...

employers are sick of cold-calling it has been pushed as first tool for job seeking from the 1980's.

I *suspect* that the low signal/noise ratio is a result of such, and HR departments generally have better things to do than deal with it. I imagine many such apps end up in the circular file. ;) I guess one purpose of this thread is to dig into the cases where this generalisation is incorrect, to get a better understanding of these cases.

shelf writes...

I got my first job in IT 10 years ago via a cold call.

I've certainly heard it can sometimes pay off, but (in my experience) it always seems to be entry-level roles. I dearly want to be shown to be wrong...

Now as a manager/employer I get cold calls every day for all sorts of things. If someone happens to call at the right time that I need something (or someone) they might be in luck. I always take the time to listen (although end it immediately if irrelevant).

Excellent, thanks for that. Have you employed anyone in a non-entry-level (ie. experienced) role based on a cold-call application or expression of interest? As in, their first contact was by this method, and ultimately it led to a position?

EDIT: As clarification, I understand that you *might* at some point, just wondering if, to date, you have.

Garthy writes...

Excellent, thanks for that. Have you employed anyone in a non-entry-level (ie. experienced) role based on a cold-call application or expression of interest? As in, their first contact was by this method, and ultimately it led to a position?

In my previous job with a consulting firm we were always after good people, so if someone phoned and sounded good I would get them in for an interview- I think this only happened a couple of times though and none were actually good enough to hire.

In my current role with all the bureaucracy and red tape in this place it is much harder, so someone would have to phone at exactly the right time we are advertising. This hasn't happened yet...

I obtained my first proper development role out of uni cold calling but with a twist. I was working a part-time sales job that had me visiting all sorts of businesses directly. I had an ulterior motive admittedly of using that role to scope out places I wanted to work for. After a week I found an engineering firm that was doing some interesting work, so instead of trying to sell them junk I started chatting with them and fortunately their software team needed an extra developer.

Looking back I'm sure they considered it a low-risk investment – I was delegated a similar level of responsibility as the other developers but at a junior rate and if I didn't live up to my sales pitch I'm sure they'd have dropped me soon enough. In the end though I was later offered a permanent role at a much higher rate than I could have dreamed for a fresh graduate, so for me that cold-calling venture worked fabulously.

My decision to move on actually turned out a poor choice since I'm currently playing games with recruiters etc who'll translate my 3+ years 'commercial experience' as being a junior developer who surely is only capable of non-challenging roles at 2/3 their previous rate :)

The point is, I'd say there's a significant advantage to cold-calling by directly speaking in person. Sell yourself right and you're essentially getting an interview and bypassing the middle-men. Plus it shows more initiative and all that jazz.

Cold calling? The 1970s rang, they want their techniques back.

In all seriousness, cold calling only works if the number you ring can easily route you through to the person in charge of the whole operation. The moment that a business moves into multi-layered budgets it becomes pointless.

shelf writes...

In my previous job with a consulting firm we were always after good people, so if someone phoned and sounded good I would get them in for an interview- I think this only happened a couple of times though and none were actually good enough to hire.

In my current role with all the bureaucracy and red tape in this place it is much harder, so someone would have to phone at exactly the right time we are advertising. This hasn't happened yet...

Excellent, thanks for that. So basically, success of cold-calling can vary a fair bit depending on the place (ie. some places make it impractical), and at one place at least you *did* interview some of these applicants, but it didn't really go further.

Would I be correct in guessing that generally you had a lot of applications to sort through, and it was tricky to identify the good ones? Did you find the quality of the applicants was generally lower than that relating to specific positions, or were they comparable?

danny.g writes...

I obtained my first proper development role out of uni cold calling

Have you had success with cold-calling since obtaining more experience?

The point is, I'd say there's a significant advantage to cold-calling by directly speaking in person. Sell yourself right and you're essentially getting an interview and bypassing the middle-men. Plus it shows more initiative and all that jazz.

I hear this a lot, but beyond entry-level positions, is this likely to be true? I'm not seeing a lot of success stories. ;)

danny.g writes...

The point is, I'd say there's a significant advantage to cold-calling by directly speaking in person. Sell yourself right and you're essentially getting an interview and bypassing the middle-men. Plus it shows more initiative and all that jazz.

I don't know where you work, but how do you propose most people get past the HR department of any large consultancy?

Cold calling can work...but you have to do some research. Most companies would be happy to consider a new quality individual for a previously non-existent role; especially if it saved the hassle of recruiters, etc.

The main issue is whether you can sell yourself over the phone, and whether they have a potential position for you.

A good source is checking out those few businesses that have been listed as fast growing businesses (BRW Magazine has a list). Chances are those businesses can't employ fast enough and are having difficulty finding quality individuals. Also check out the direct competitors to those fast growing organisations; because they might be red hot too.

Garthy writes...

Have you had success with cold-calling since obtaining more experience?

Fortunately, so far I haven't needed to since then.. Obviously I'd expect the success rate doing so over the phone to be very low and even in person quite low, but the primary problem everyone acknowledges is finding that right person. More than that, they need to find a company that matches their expertise and secondly, find the shortest path to that right person.

I hear this a lot, but beyond entry-level positions, is this likely to be true? I'm not seeing a lot of success stories. ;)

Is the reason you don't hear about these stories instead because, beyond their entry level jobs they've built enough of a network to leverage that instead? You did rate that as number one right? ;)

Personally, I think I'm almost too proud to fall-back on cold-calling – afterall, 'I have some contacts and experience now right?'. Seems like a silly attitude when I voice it.

Logic and Reason writes...

I don't know where you work, but how do you propose most people get past the HR department of any large consultancy?

I moved to BAE Systems after that first role – which was a smaller organisation of ~100 employees at the time. Honestly I think it's all about getting face to face with the right people, not necessarily IT folks but people you can gain a rapport with quickly – in my example I bumped into the CFO on my way in, tata HR-roadblock. Obviously some luck involved too.

If I was going for a larger organisation...while it might be unethical, I'd probably scout out the people I'm looking for and try talking to them off premises/lunchbreaks etc. Larger organisations offer referral schemes anyway so there's an incentive for your targets :)

That said, like the OP said I rarely hear stories of people doing the above in our industry outside the movies. For me, it begs the question, why?

Guided Light writes...

Cold calling can work...but you have to do some research. Most companies would be happy to consider a new quality individual for a previously non-existent role; especially if it saved the hassle of recruiters, etc.

The main issue is whether you can sell yourself over the phone, and whether they have a potential position for you.

Have you had success with this approach, either as an employee, or if appropriate, and employer? Excluding entry-level roles.

A good source is checking out those few businesses that have been listed as fast growing businesses (BRW Magazine has a list). Chances are those businesses can't employ fast enough and are having difficulty finding quality individuals. Also check out the direct competitors to those fast growing organisations; because they might be red hot too.

Whilst technically offtopic, I'll thank you for this anyway- I hadn't thought of that. :) Not a bad idea.

danny.g writes...

Is the reason you don't hear about these stories instead because, beyond their entry level jobs they've built enough of a network to leverage that instead? You did rate that as number one right? ;)

That's certainly the ideal. :) And yes, very easily number one. I feel a little dirty sometimes when comparing the number of jobs/offers I've obtained through the first means to the other methods.

Unfortunately though, since I'm actually considering cold-calling, my leads for the sort of work I'm after are presently a bit dry. :( But I'm trying to avoid letting the thread become too much about me, more about cold-calling in general.

Personally, I think I'm almost too proud to fall-back on cold-calling – afterall, 'I have some contacts and experience now right?'. Seems like a silly attitude when I voice it.

Feels dirty to me too. I've tried to overcome this feeling, of course, telling myself it's just my stubborn pride, but even as I do, that little voice in my head keeps telling me: "is this even accomplishing anything?". Hence this thread. :)

Mmm it seems your intial post didn't mention applying for an unadvertised position i.e sending in a resume and cover letter about how keen you are for work... a decent recruiter actually told me to do this cause I had relevent experience for lots of things but I was a bit outside the mould in terms of titles etc. Seems similar to cold calling but with less of a hawker vibe – which I imagine could turns some people off.

duwitz writes...

Mmm it seems your intial post didn't mention applying for an unadvertised position i.e sending in a resume and cover letter...

I'd considered this to also fall under cold-calling as well- in fact, this is what I've typically done when cold-calling. Hence the clarification in the first sentence, so it's not assumed to *just* be calling on the phone and annoying the people there. ;)

Perhaps I should expand the scope of the question a touch. Rather than asking for personal experiences, perhaps it is better to also ask if anyone knows anyone (ie. personally, not just via a story or anecdote) that has experienced success in this way. So, basically:

For experienced people looking for work, has cold-calling been effective for you or anyone that you *personally* know at all?

The rest of the question is as stated in the third-last paragraph of my original post, noting that we're excluding entry-level or inexperienced roles.

We've all heard the anecdotes, and plenty of stories about cold-calling working in fields where the applicant isn't experienced. I'm just wondering if anyone has any stories to share where either they, or someone they personally know, with decent experience in the field (say, ten years), has gone from a cold-call (including an unsolicited sending of cover letter / CV) to an actual, real position, without relying on internal contacts in some way. Either side of the story is fine- employee or employer.