Whirlpool

Hi,

This is a downright loaded first post on whirlpool and obviously of serious personal significance. I doubt ill get a response but hey, id be crazy not to try.

I'm currently trying to get into IT after giving up due to the seeming lack of entry level jobs 8 years ago, although I've been attached to a computer since the 386x16. I ended up doing everything from labouring to high end audio visual sales.

One problem I have is that my work history is terrible. This almost entirely due to 15 years of undiagnosed mental illness which has now been medicated for 2 years with a slow reduction to the point i'm stable again. I'm now better, and more then capable to study and work. My last job however will give me a good reference as a top notch salesman, but it was only 18 months of work.

The problem is, people will scan that job history and basicly laugh at it (imho), as there seems to be a 6 month gap between all of the 4 serious jobs on there.
I can also predict computer science grad's thinking I might have NFI despite the truth. Uni of course didn't let me in.

This means, weather i like it or not i'm indirectly discriminated against and have a much lower chance of getting an interview. Especially given im "switching back" into IT , although i could easily communicate my love of all things computer & chair. Once i have my CompTIA Linux+ ill have that, and a Cert IV in "network support"

Putting "Don't worry about my job history over the last 10 yrs, including being unemployed the last 18 months as I was suffering from bipolar & GAD" is about as sure to get me a job interview as screwing my resume up into balls and throwing it at random peoples faces in the city. I also only have a year ten pass despite an excellent knowledge and interest in general sciences and the world.

The bipolar is actually a help more then a hinderance (currently) as i have type II and am only hypomanic this makes me an excellent creative & logical thinker at a quick pace. The anxiety is under control now too, so it doesn't effect me due to my internal coping mechanism's

I just finished CompTIA study in a week, and am booking the exam and pursuing either RHCE or NCLE certification right away. So the question remains.

Am I in a situation where its actually more ethical to embellish the truth? I've sort of had enough of the discrimination from society as it is. (believe me)

I did run my own residential support business for 18 months, however it was a complete failure. My only other idea is to pretend i was a frequent backpacker and memorise some fake holidays.

I've been stressing about this for about a year now, and i still have NFI of what to do. Ive included a poll to assist.

Thanks all for your opinions.

This is a tough one as many, many people will discriminate against those with mental illness, either directly or indirectly. I'm happy for you that it's all sorted but now you have another road to trudge, unfortunately.

Can you ask a good friend that is high up in a business or something to give you a good reference, saying that you've volunteered for them during the largest gap times?

Maybe you could start up another business using your skills? Charge family and friends at first, and when your portfolio is bigger, start expanding into the general public? Until it gets to be a money earner, you will have to do something else like working at a supermarket etc.

IT may have to be a longer term goal – stick it out in a crappier job for a few years and then go the career change route.

Good luck!

Just bend the truth a little. It not like your out right lieing. Just extend the dates a little.

If I were you, I’d consider the following two options:
1. state that you’ve had medical illness. If they ask about the nature of it; tell them you’re being treated and you’ve had a clearance from the doctors to return to work. Don’t tell them about the nature of the illness. If they ask, politely state you’d rather not discuss, but again state that you’ve recovered and are now ready to work. This would be my first preference.
2. state that you’ve had your own business venture. Tell them you’ve started a business venture with a friend of yours. Tell them it didn’t go too well; not enough for you to make a living out of it, but enough for your wealthy friend to continue with the project. Tell them you sold your interest in the business venture to your friend.

With the two options above, you’ve explained the gaps without lying/bending the truth. If someone finds out at a later stage that there was actually a gap; they could question your integrity.

Good to hear that you've made a good recovery – I'm sure it must have been extremely challenging for you. I certainly wish you a speedy full recovery and all the best with your job hunting.

You won't know till you try.

You'll only get opinion here. Get your CV out there to see what the real response will be like.

I would go to a recruitment agent (or a couple) and be honest and see what they say to do. To minimise the risk do it with a recruitment agent that specialises less in IT so that you don't ruin your chance with a major IT recruiter in case you come accross a bad recruiter.

I don't think it is that much problem as it is entry level anyway where people always have no or patchy history.

id be crazy not to try. ..a good start because you never know until you ask.

I'm inclined to agree with the three last posts in the following order

1. Vertical C
2. JDL1306
3. wonderhuman

Most places put people on a probationary period no matter what their experience and seniority is.

Postings here can be be a real dog's breakfast opinions

Here are my suggestions:

"Bend the truth", so to speak, by being vague. No need to say "Worked at Blah Blah 25 June – 8 October 2007" Then worked at Woodiloo 6 March 2008 – 21 December 2008"

(which shows gaps)

If you write down Manager at Blah Blah – 2007
Then Manager at Woodiloo – 2008

it looks more continuous.

You can state in an accompanying email or letter or note, briefly that there may have been some time off in your work history for personal/medical reasons. No need to elaborate. If they want to go into these further try not to be drawn into a discussion about them and only say what you want to say. It's best to have something prepared, and emphasise that that condition is in the past and you are treated/well etc now.

Be very persistent, there are some people who will hold this against you and others who will not care so much. You can't really help that, but don't let the ones who hold it against you personally get you down!

As anyone else would, emphasise your achievements and your interests and your skills and make the most of them – these should be what get you over the finishing line and hopefully people will look to these and if they are what they want, a few little bumps in your work history will not matter too much.

Hypomaniac writes...

Especially given im "switching back" into IT , although i could easily communicate my love of all things computer & chair. Once i have my CompTIA Linux+ ill have that, and a Cert IV in "network support"

That is a very good move.

The bipolar is actually a help more then a hinderance (currently) as i have type II and am only hypomanic this makes me an excellent creative & logical thinker at a quick pace. The anxiety is under control now too, so it doesn't effect me due to my internal coping mechanism's

Not from an employer's perspective unfortunately, as it makes you prone to burn out.

I feel for your position. I suggest the following:

1. Continue on with the qualifications and get more highly skilled.

2. Have another crack at business, this time with a mentor(s) to make sure that you learn how business is actually done in the real world, not how you think it's done (which I'm guessing is a big part of the reason for it's demise).

3. Pick your role carefully – I think more technical then customer services.

4. Do not ever get in to embellishment or lying.

5. Look around to see if any other careers interest you. I.T. can be a brutal at times option.

First things first, Massive DOH last night at 4:00am when i realised my coffee spilt keyboard had left out an L in illness. That may have reduced amount of response *lol*

I should add, Ive purchased a good domain name and registered a business name. I have a command line only server setup on my old HP notebook that i intend to use as a proof of concept. Hopefully this will all help on the resume.

I intend to setup every single possible function and test it from my desktop and gf's notebook. I'm wondering if I even need a self study kit when I could learn this backwards forwards sideways and in my dreams.

Memoo> Thank you for your response, Unfortunately my big problem with running my own business is the anxiety , when I'm working for someone else it feels like a huge load is taken off my chest as my anxiety makes me rationally care about things as much as irrationally , it also makes me undervalue and discredit myself to an infinite degree, in fact I stopped IT because i believed incorrectly I was not smart enough for it, despite fixing my fathers computers since windows 3.11 and being 8 years old.

Geff> Thanks for your response.

Wonderhuman> Thankyou your comments reveal your excellent character, thankyou :). I really think i might use the 1> as it seems to be a great idea.

JDL1306> thanks mate , you are right i wont know how heavy it is until i lift it.

Vertical C> Thats the clever idea re: recruitment i needed, thanks!

jim-jim> Thanks, your right about the dogs breakfast I'm happily supprised at the response's.

Miss Purple> Great advice, thank you. Your right about some people getting me down, even friends turn into casper the ghost when they find this stuff out. My problem is I'm an excellent read of people despite the backchat in my mind (ive never failed a job interview in my life), I could very easily tell from micro expression or body language a persons complete lack of respect for me if I told them this in person, and it could really bum me out. Id be tempted to explain to them how visible their reaction was and that it was most unbecoming.

Michael613> Thanks very much for the ideas!

I disagree about the prone to burning out (somewhat) , Winston Churchill did ok. Although I realise your stating an employers opinion here.

Demographically I might agree, but i was blamed for my illness for most of my life where as others may have been treated with padded marshmallow gloves on. But if someone has lived with 2+ mental illness's for 10 + years without treatment and is still alive id say they are a lot less likely to burn out then someone else when confronted with stress. Id be the last person off a sinking ship helping the others while the "tough stable men" crapped themselves and trampled women and children (i've actually had an amateur boxing fight). Simply put I'm built to handle adrenaline/stress.
Its simply a matter of relativity. Unfortunately we have hollywood to thank for "employers opinions" of BP, who thinks its quite hysterical and still politically correct to make fun of, but that's a rant i dare not start!

Ill keep doing the qualifications! it seems RHCE is the most wanted, however they also make it the most difficult/expensive to self study. For Novell i wouldnt have to sell my car.

#

Your absolutely right about customer service, i was working in high end ($50,000 tv's) commission sales believe it or not, probably the worlds number 1 worst job for someone like me lmao.

As for another industry, I was trying that the last 8 years and ended up realising I'm actually really really good at this, and i love it. I enjoy setting up server functions more then watching good TV. I think when you get a tingle of excitement from lines of text on a computer screen you know your calling =D.

THANKYOU EVERYONE, I am really really chuffed about all of these responses and they are all helpfull. :).

hypomanic

Hiya,

I don't know where to start. I feel for you! Your story sounds a lot like my own: I had been suffering from undiagnosed schizoaffective bipolar disorder for seven years before first receiving (incorrect!) treatment. It has had both an immensely positive and immensely negative effect upon both my performance in the workplace and general employability, let alone every other conceivable facet of my life.

I'll try to address some of the issues that I think are most important.

Hypomaniac writes...

i'm stable again

Hypomaniac writes...

I'm now better

Hypomaniac writes...

more then capable to study and work

wonderhuman writes...

you’ve had a clearance from the doctors to return to work

wonderhuman writes...

now ready to work

Miss Purple writes...

you are treated/well etc now.

The above is very good language to employ. Use this language! Repeat it to yourself in the shower, if need be. This is the sort of positive, realistic attitude that you personally need to have and need to convey to employers.

If it transpires that an employer realises you have been unwell (do not lie at all! I'll get to this in a moment), alarm bells will ring in their head — they're not out to get you or to avoid hiring you, but they will definitely want to be reassured that you are currently in a healthy frame of mind and more than capable of kicking required arse.

Miss Purple writes...

emphasise that that condition is in the past

wonderhuman writes...

state that you’ve recovered

This is language you should avoid. I am sure you have discussed this ad nauseum with your general practitioner, psychiatrist, psychologist, therapists et al. and understand the illness better than any punter on the street. Your illness has a physiological basis and is biological in nature. Your first onset might have been triggered by a traumatic experience, but having dealt with the stresses of that experience will not remove the genes that were there beforehand.

I do not say this to dampen your hope for the future. You've already established that a much better quality of life is possible (and you're living it!), but this is not "recovery" as most people would think of it. You are managing your illness now and have developed strategies that will serve you very well into the future, but there is always the potential for (possibly severe) relapses at some unknown point, especially should you find yourself in a stressful workplace.

Why is this important? If you mention to an employer that you have "recovered" from your illness and you do relapse, not only will you have to deal with the stresses of that and its impact on your life and work, but your employer will likely feel misled with respect to your condition. There is a subtle (but important) difference between "being fit for work" (which you most certainly are) and having "recovered." You do not want to find yourself in an already immensely stressful period and having to explain why your definition of "recovered" differs from theirs.

On a similar note, many governmental (no pun intended, honest!) departments and corporate institutions that require security clearances and other invasive procedures will absolutely require that you inform them of your illness' history and your current situation. Just like the thread we had a while ago here, it doesn't matter if you're gay (cf. suffer from a mental illness) as long as they are aware.

Hypomaniac writes...

am only hypomanic

Hypomaniac writes...

my internal coping mechanism's

Likewise, these are sentiments that you really should keep to yourself. It is great that you are superbly lucky and have never had the misfortune of experiencing mania or a full-blown psychotic detachment from reality, but you needn't assure the employer that you're "only" hypomanic. Not only will they find it difficult to differentiate between the definitions, enough people can't even differentiate between the hypo- and hyper- prefixes.

Mentioning your "internal coping mechanisms" might set off some alarm bells, too. While I understand where you're coming from, other sufferers understand and your psychiatrist understands, other people will not. A statement like that appears to be a ticking time-bomb: what if your "internal mechanisms" were to slip one day?

They don't want to hear about your daily internal battles to avoid jumping in front of fast-moving objects, ripping off all your clothes in public or crying uncontrollably on a crowded train. What they do want to hear is that you are capable of "keeping calm and collected in a stressful situation and acting rationally to ensure an optimal outcome", or some other similar bumpf :-)

Hypomaniac writes...

Am I in a situation where its actually more ethical to embellish the truth?

No. No, no, no, no, no! I won't pretend to understand you completely, but I can offer you advice that has helped me. Perhaps you are not so unlucky as to have fallen down this particular rabbit hole, but I can tell you from both personal experience¹ and the experience of others in my group therapy sessions that any form of lying or deception is a very slippery slope for a person suffering from bipolar disorder.

You are already used to masking the truth about your mental health from others, it is a nasty habit to form and very difficult to break. My suggestion is to nip the habit in the bud before it consumes you, your life, your friends and your career. It's a very difficult year in your life when the façade comes crashing down — it always does.

I've been stressing about this for about a year now,

All I can say is good on you for confronting your fears and inner demons head on. I understand how these sorts of issues can consume your existence until you acknowledge them openly.

May I also take this opportunity to present a useful resource (that specific page is particularly relevant to this topic) that might also aid you in addition to this thread (probably much more so) and thank you for the opportunity to also spill my guts.

I realise that this particular forum may not be the most appropriate for cathartic relief, but your post struck a very strong chord with me and I felt that I had to try help in whatever way I could. I'm sorry if my wall of text is completely useless to you. :-( Upon review, it doesn't contain much with respect to IT work specifically.

--
1: If you're anything like me, you've been suffering from this condition from a very early age and have never understood why one month you are ecstatic, excitable, capable of climbing mountains the other eleven months of the year you are an empty shell of a person going through the motions just so the people around you don't bother you with their concern and empathy. Your friends and family like you when you're energetic and bouncing off the walls; they think you're a fun-lovin' guy (or gal) and always quick with a joke or a smile. You don't want to disappoint them when you're feeling down, you don't want to disappoint yourself when you're feeling down, so what are you to do? You'll lie like there's no tomorrow.

Hell, it's all in the mind anyway, isn't it? If you're happy (nay, over the moon!) 30 days of the year, surely you're not depressed — you're just an attention whore. Get over it and act happy, if you can fool everyone else, you'll fool yourself too!

Lying about how you're feeling works pretty well, no? Everyone believes that you're a happy guy (or gal) all year round, so you've got them fooled! What else can you lie about to keep them happy? How about you embellish the truth about your achievements, downplay your failures and outright pathologically lie compulsively about everything meaningful? Surely it won't come crashing down in a heap one day.
--

Use year ranges instead of month ranges
eg Instead of putting "worked jan 2005 – mar 2006", just use "2005-2006". Thats what I do to cover gaps in the resume.

Sedate Alien writes...

It is great that you are superbly lucky and have never had the misfortune of experiencing mania or a full-blown psychotic detachment from reality,

I've had numerous mental health issues, including psychosis & trying to get admitted to psych hospital.

You wouldn't imagine a woman telling employers about gynaecological problems, none of their business. Likewise I dont mention psych problems.

(When I have talked about psych issues to friends their eyes glaze over & they aren't interested anyway.)

Just extend dates on your resume – If they ask questions about extended gaps in dates say you suffered from Glandular Fever, as it can last from 1 month to many years.

I wanted to go on a 4 ½ month holiday while working for an insurance company and used this reason successfully – Although I did get a few questions about my tan on returning to work.

Pirate Party writes...

I've had numerous mental health issues, including psychosis & trying to get admitted to psych hospital.

You wouldn't imagine a woman telling employers about gynaecological problems, none of their business. Likewise dont mention psych problems.

I don't quite understand why you're saying that in response to my post (let alone that particular sentence), but that is actually precisely what I said.

Don't mention the specific nature of the problem, but if they press on, just say that you're in a better state now and you're fit to work. That's really all that needs to be said.

Sedate Alien writes...

Don't mention the specific nature of the problem, but if they press on, just say that you're in a better state now and you're fit to work. That's really all that needs to be said.

I've been asked by supervisors about work performance where I knew the problems were mental health related. But I have never told managers I have mental health issues, never mentioned being "in a better state". Thats just me, others may have different opinions.

Your first post showed true insight into mental health issues. But the average joe in the street (or manager) has next to zero understanding of mental health. People understand "broken bone" or "pinched nerve", they dont understand "affective disorder" or think ADHD is a fad to get kids hooked on amphetamines. Arguing about mental health is as productive as arguing about politics.

Hypomaniac writes...

I've been stressing about this for about a year now, and i still have NFI of what to do. Ive included a poll to assist.

Ah, the perfect elusive poll ...... I didn't pick any of them, because I suspect the answer is a combination of a few.

Firstly, unless the recruitment agent is experienced in assisting candidates with a similar back ground to you, I wouldn't be giving them such personal information at all. They're not their to look after you, and even though you have clearly made tremendous progress, the average person trying to break into the job market is vunerable to the practises of recruiters. I'm not saying doing use them, I'm saying you will be well served to be guarded.

Lying will create problems, and quite frankly more stress which isn't helpful to you. I personally think that it's okay to leave the gaps as is in your CV (but smooth them as someone else suggested by not including months), and if you think it needs to be addressed, elude to it in passing in your cover letter the absences as being a 'period of illness'. But without going into great detail, you're entitled to some self respect and dignity, mental illness does not automatically mean you lose any right to those.

18 months with one employer is standard these days, so start with that. The 'complete failure' was a damn fine example of learning what not to do, and as long as you can turn that into a positive in an interview, it's a plus as you'll come across as someone who's not pretending to know it all! As for the time off feel free to dismiss it as 'time off due to illness, which no longer would impact your ability to do the job/being an excellent employee/colleage. As your work history and (if I understand correctly) you references will support. If they probe and you don't want to be down right rude .... and they dig by way of 'so, you had something like cancer', you can give them an ambigous answer 'yeah, something like that'. If they really push further (and therefore demonstrate you don't want to work with people like this), you can just say its something you'd rather not discuss, and while you could come up with some polite socially acceptable lie like 'caring for a terminal relative', you're being honest, and would like to leave it at that.

I get, in part, where you're coming from. In the past I had to do a medical for a job, and was asked if there was a history of depression, and I said no. I felt stink for lying, and while that episode was a long time ago, and classified as 'circumstantial' rather than a long term permanent condition that required on going managment/treatment – I felt the answer of 'yes' would not be interpreted correctly by the powers that were, and didn't trust where that information would sit. And frankly, I didn't think such old history was the business of my employer. Of course I could have refused the medical, and not got the job, but that would have been simplistic. I get a company wants to screen for illegal substances, but anything more than that is just invasive!

\end rant

- As a side note, I'd add that if anyone is relying on your employeer allowing time off or flexibility in hours to manage any health issues, then I'd be enquiring about that in a general way after they offer you the job, and before you sign up for it.

Just bare in mind that a success rate of 1 interview for 20 applications could be about standard, and not necessarily a reflection on you, or your gaps.

Excuse my ignorance, but if you're part of support groups or under professional care still, see what suggestions they can come up with too.

Let us know how you get on.

Maybe if you said during that gap that you were ill, then hopefully that should be reasonable enough for an employer to notice. If asked on what illness....Im not sure what you would say instead of saying "depression" or "bipolar", although Im not sure if that would be good enough.

Mental illness is still not fully comprehendible in the workplace, which is unfortunate.

i only ever write down years on my resume!

job one 2001-2003
job two 2003 – 2006
job three 2006 – current

truthfully i do not remember the months any ways, I my case the longest I have been out of work is two days. I have interviewed people and I have never questioned the full year format but I have questioned gaps in resumes over a month.

I too got very sick a few years ago and my job at the time viewed me as the liability and tried to push me away, then to make this situation worse I went looking for jobs a told the first three interviews the truth and I never got a call back the net job I went for I just told them it was time for me to move on as I need some new challenges and I got hired before I left the building.

I would try not to say anything about the illness at first if possible, just do not lie if you are asked directly. and Yes I have been asked if I have been sick over the last 5 years during two interviews.

There's been a lot of good advise in this thread, and in all honesty I don't think I can expand upon it directly. One thing that you should consider is approaching various charities and see if they have entry level work in their departments. Most larger charities are very open to supporting members of the community, and some of them might understand your problems intimately. At the very least, it's worth a try.

Hypomaniac writes...

I can also predict computer science grad's thinking I might have NFI despite the truth

I'd just like to comment on this because it's highly related. Over the last bunch of years I've been a passionate supporter of Degrees, specifically Computer Science. However, with that in context, I don't think any of the CompSci people would simply believe that you would have NFI about IT. Most of us aren't that big of an arsehole.

You have a different agenda/goals to people with CompSci degrees. That's not a sin, it's not even wrong. So, don't prematurity attack, we're not all that bad :)

Uni of course didn't let me in.

Out of interest, have you considered trying to get in again?

You said that you are 'ok' and have the 'all clear' from the doctor to work. I don't think you need to mention anything.

Keep everything under control at work when you get the job and you should be fine. If things don't go so well at work, you could mention to them what you have if absolutely necessary. (otherwise don't do it IMO)

Your coping strategies sound good. Don't underestimate the power of the mind in being able to adapt to anything. I've seen a talk by Jon Kabat-Zinn from the University of massachusetts medical school, who studies various aspects of the brain, and he said that the brain is like a muscle in that if you keep using it, it will get stronger and is more flexible and able to adapt than scienticists initially ever imagined.

Also, I don't know a single person who has or would ever make fun of someone who has BP. I don't think BP is something that people ever really make fun of in general.

You might see it in comedies or such...but that's just TV and obviously not anything like reality.

Good luck in your studies and IT career. I'm sure you can do it if you really want to :)

edit: Don't tell recruiters anything about it. I find recruiters (in general) aren't terribly helpful in many things anyway. Half the time they don't get back to the canditate when they don't get the job etc etc. (I'm not saying all recruiters are bad, just a lot that I've seen and heard of)

Whilst your resilience and perserverence should be congratulated, mental health iis a tricky topic to raise with employers. I have employed staff who were identified as "mental health" clients, ie returning to work after a depressive illness, and they were OK, but there was the ongoing discourse about how they were feeling and it tended to be the focus, instead of the business itself.
It was easy to get lost in her moods and varying feelings and not focus purely on delivering good product.
Make the employer aware that it is their business and your paid role that is the focus, not your medical history or affect and I'm sure you will go a long way.
This may sound harsh but an employer at the end of the day wants the job done, not a running commentary along the lines of "I wonder how X is going to be today...?'

Crusaders Fan writes...

Lying will create problems, and quite frankly more stress which isn't helpful to you.

Just delete the gaps from the past, details there aren't that important anyway. Invent a false referee for that time with a trusted friend if necessary. Don't go overboard, the idea is to appear 'average'. For the more recent past, just fudge it as you went on a long holiday around much of Australia, and 'sell' the fact that you ran a business. Don't focus on it as having failed, it may have ran it's course, or perhaps the business environment changed and it wasn't viable anymore.

The worse thing that can happen with lying on your resume is that the employer finds out and sacks you for it. To do that they firstly have to dig around and find out – who has the time? Secondly they have to want to fire you. If you're doing a good job they won't even be interested.

It's your life and wellbeing, take no prisoners.

I'm bipolar too (II too, lol) but I'm rapid cycling which means somedays I'm awesomely productive and other days ... not so much. So I have huge gaps in my resume, and also left school after year 10 with a 7 year gap before I started uni, and have been at uni for 4 years and am not even half-way through my degree.

Explaining all that is ... fun, to say the least.

I'm a fan of embellishing/lying. If you're comfortable saying you were travelling/backpacking for those times, do it. Even throw a few random jobs in there – even just basic help-desk type jobs in England, they won't check.

Or like others have said, just use years, not months. Even a year or so gap is ok unexplained.

Good luck.

Make something up, tell them you were backpacking and memorise the destinations you're saying you went too, or say you were at home looking after a sick relative, then they wont ask any questions.

If you tell them you were sick for 18 months and that's why you haven't worked then they will probably discriminate against you.

studiorambo writes...

Just delete the gaps from the past, details there aren't that important anyway. Invent a false referee for that time with a trusted friend if necessary.

Knackers McGee writes...

Make something up, tell them you were backpacking and memorise the destinations you're saying you went too, or say you were at home looking after a sick relative, then they wont ask any questions.

This is extremely bad advice. If I was considering the O.P. for a job within the company I work in, I would quickly pick up on this stunt and bin their application.

The O.P. needs to keep on upskilling so they can get to a point where employers will be accommodating because they _need_ the skills the O.P. has.

An employer that _needs_ certain skills in a tight market will be amazingly accommodating!*

I have known a few people who were in a lot worser position then the O.P. who have no problem getting work during their 'good periods' because they were damn good at what they did.

*That is providing that the O.P. is otherwise a good employee, is making the effort and delivering the goods.

Michael613 writes...

This is extremely bad advice. If I was considering the O.P. for a job within the company I work in, I would quickly pick up on this stunt and bin their application.

Good for you, but most employers will bin the resume of a candidate with poor work history due to mental illness anyway. Secondly, the typical workplace is unable and unwilling to conduct the kind of thorough background check to identify a untruthful resume entry from some years past – we're not talking about claiming to have been head of neurosurgery at the Alfred. The most recent activities are all that needs to be in order. Your advice could see the OP embark on an endless wasteful and expensive journey of upskilling that doesn't guarantee anything, and still relies on employers puting aside their prejudice towards mental illness. The OP's problem is the weak resume, fix the resume by any means and move on to a better life.

Sedate Alien writes...

I'll try to address some of the issues that I think are most important.

You make me feel better about society for putting in so much effort for someone you've never met.
In fact, most of you seem to have put in a lot of thought and effot and it's rather admirable.

Sorry this was a little side note, and doesn't help your issue but I think everyones efforts here should be commended.

Sedate Alien> Thank you!
Pirate Party> Thank you!
Crusaders Fan> Thank you!
Soren2010> Thank you!
dysolve> Thank you!
Logic and Reason> Thank you!
TripleGem> Thank you!
Bwendo> Thank you!
studiorambo> Thank you!
emplosion> Thank you!
Knackers McGee> Thank you!
Michael613> Thank you!
studiorambo> Thank you!
ellsliot> Thank you!

I'm absolutely amazed at the amount of responses and its given me great encouragment! This will serve as a valuable resource for me whenever i question myself during the following months. So a big thank you to all, for taking the time to give a crap and help a dude out!!

Emplosion>, im a rapid cycler too however i assumed most wouldnt understand. Its nice to meet another one finally!!

Thank you again everyone!

Ok it looks like i posted this from another account...

This is hypomaniac btw.

*confused look*

Don't make a big deal about your mental illness. In fact, hope it doesn't even come up.

The problem many people with past illnesses have is they go into an interview trying to convince the employer they are now "better". Net result: Employer goes away half-convinced you are better, and zero-convinced you are right for the job.

Recent absence from employment can be explained by "medical problems" that are now resolved.

Earlier absence from employment can be obscured and hopefully skimmed over completely.

No one is going to believe that you suffered from mental illness on 4 occassions over 10 years, returning to work between each occassion, and that this occassion is definitely your last. Guaranteed, no relapse. If this is your story, you've lost.

this is prob gonna sound a bit pessimestic, but imho the easiest, safest, best option is to just make something up, be it the holiday or extending a job u worked on.

some people may really appreciate your honesty and integrity, but they are few and far between.

most people who are assessing you for a job are might really appreciate honesty/integrity, but don't have the time or resources required (ie: giving you a trial period) to understand your personal situation.

labels are designed for people to make snap judgements about you which is what interviewing people is all about. labelling yourself as bi polar isn't going to be helpful for your job prospects! to a HR person (no matter how anti discriminatory their company policy is) they will automatically view you as a risky candidate. it is heaps easier for them to push your resume to the side and consider someone else who hasn't suffered from mental illness.

either way, good luck job hunting! :)

recruiter20091 writes...

Don't make a big deal about your mental illness. In fact, hope it doesn't even come up.

The problem many people with past illnesses have is they go into an interview trying to convince the employer they are now "better". Net result: Employer goes away half-convinced you are better, and zero-convinced you are right for the job.

+1 – absolutely.

O.P. – Listen to what recruiter is telling you here.

studiorambo writes...

The most recent activities are all that needs to be in order. Your advice could see the OP embark on an endless wasteful and expensive journey of upskilling that doesn't guarantee anything, and still relies on employers puting aside their prejudice towards mental illness.

While I agree in part with studiorambo, I will reiterate what I stated before – *If* someone has skills that are specialised, at a good level and in demand, and they are otherwise a good employee, many employers will accommodate.

This industry is full of people with 'issues'. Big deal. Anyone who has been around I.T. for more then 5 minutes knows most 'geeks' have a few screws loose lol... I took 3 months off for anxiety/stress (an ongoing challenge for me) and I was accommodated. Why? Because I have specialised and high level skills in an area that I am passionate about and I deliver the goods. The company I work for don't want to let me go – they will continue to accommodate me as I do CCNP.

I encourage the O.P. to further their education and keep pressing ahead in their area of interest. I wish I could offer another pearl of wisdom but this is the only road forward that I can think of.

I think the key is that everyone has their own problems. A lot of the time, things appear well on the surface, but hidden beneath there is no doubt at LEAST some personal issue that people will always conceal in order to hide it as some sort of weakness. Whether it may be mental illness, or 1 foot bigger than the other, or asthma or diabetes,etc. Most people will never tell you, to present themselves as more perfect than other people.

ellsliot writes...

You make me feel better about society for putting in so much effort for someone you've never met.

I think that's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me on Whirlpool! :-D

Hopefully the OP will keep us up to date as (s?)he makes progress. :-)

..

I would like to add this.

You are still here as in alive and still capable of managing your life,
and probably have some emotional/mental skills that others who haven't had these challenges dont.

So in your life and your work and your job interviews, dont seek to compensate for what you have experienced, or even prove that they don't affect you.

Acknowledge the strength , wisdom and empowerment you have garnered from them.

And on your CV, put that you went travelling, 'cause from my experience, when you have mental illnesses you do go travelling, but not necessarily in the physical realm, you can just leave that bit out though.

and i will add one little bit of insight,
life is an ongoing process/creation, not arriving at a static point of perfection, so don't try so hard to please everyone else, or get things right the first time.

I was diagnosed some years ago (rapid cycling) when I was between jobs.

Didn't tell my prospective employer anything until they noticed the changes and asked me about it. I was honest and told them and they were happy to provide additional counseling if I ever require it and asked if I was happy to talk about because the rumors were going around the office that I was a "psycho" lol

I agreed to the talk and handed out some literature from beyondblue and everyone was really accepting of it. My work has gone strength to strength now and I've formed a close knit relationship with everyone there. I'm not given any preferential treatment and everyone accepts that I have my bad days and my really bad days.

Some guys even came up and congratulated me for the talk and in private several said that they now recognise the signs in some of their family members.

Rambling a bit with this post but IMO don't mention it and if asked make up your own mind as to whether or not you want to share this personal info.

Well this is the original poster hypomaniac, account got dupe deleted i guess.

Im taking the RHCE exam in the next 4 weeks ( dont want to be so specific someone knows me lol )

I've spent some weeks 60-80 hours, some weeks 20. Probably 40 on average. However ive been working slow and steady deliberately so when im on the job i havent forgotten it.

When it got so boring my mind was almost exploding i was fixing end user things like trying to get DVB working and learning about linux in every other way i could, to take a break from learning about linux :P

All in all ive actually enjoyed the whole thing. PokerTH ftw.

I've found the best way with this stuff is to work slow and take it all in, rather then read it three times over. Using Michael Jangs's 2007 RHCE guide (only in the last 3 weeks), the RHEL deployment guide & "definitive guide to centos"

I also studied binary numbering systems, the details of DNS, low level OSI communications and learnt some subnetting maths.

Sorry if anyone messaged my hypomaniac account and didnt get a reply, i lost the password and it subsequently got nuked.

Anyway no need to wish me luck to pass, wish me luck to get 100% which is a definite objective.

Cheers.

I have suffered anxiety and panic attacks in the past so my resume has a few little gaps due to not being able to work. I think the advice given here has been wonderful.

I wanted to wish you luck in your future, you come across as having your head screwed on properly, and I believe you will do fine

If someone hasnt mentioned it try volunteer work experience (schools are great for this), 1-2 week or few month contracts that no one else wants or even try your luck with Jobs further inland again, where no one else wants to go. Good luck.

Don't worry. Every IT person has a mental disorder of some sort ;)

Don't list dates for previous roles – use years so in your resume you can list jobs as:

2008 – 2009 – one job
2009 – 2010 – another job

If it come up sure tell them as much as feel comfortable telling them or just say that you took some time between roles for personal reasons.
I myself just started a new role after taking a break from working for 4 and half months because I just felt like relaxing a playing golf and xbox for a while.

Bipolar is not a big deal but some people just ignorant when it comes to any mental illness, I have a sister in law with bipolar who is currently in her last part of uni and has finished everything with 7s but it just has taken a lot longer than other people because of her "off times", my wife is also a OT working in mental health so I think myself quite informed of these things but I would not take it for granted that an interviewer or employer will be quite as informed or caring in the hiring stage.

So my advice is not to lie – that's just the start of a hole that you will have to continue to dig for your term of employment and you don't need that added pressure.
Just go with the years and no fixed dates of length of employment in your resume, when they ask for more information tell them as much as you feel comfortable telling them or just say that it was for personal reasons.
End of the day whatever your new role will be you will require time off every now here and there so it will be a lot easier if you don't have to try to make stuff up.

Good Luck

Good luck getting back on track mate, I think the best opportunity you have is to drive your own path.

Maybe get into an area you can do a lot of consulting or contract work in rather than looking for a traditional "job"

But I dont know much about the areas you work in and how feasible that is so hopefully others can assist.

I have to disagree with many who are suggesting only placing the year you worked in a role.

For applicants who do this I spend 10 minutes going through job by job when they started, when they left. It's extremely annoying and it always has a hint of someone trying to mislead you – which is why applicants do it.

I agree, dont think you will get away with the stupid "year but not month" thing, recruiters see right through it.

Have been in a similar situation to you, had big gaps in my employment history due to periods of time when my OCD was at it's worst. I started job hunting a few months ago and really pondered how I was going to broach the gaps with potential employers because OCD is one of those things that most people don't understand and anyone who likes a clean house claims to be 'OCD'. It's hard to say to someone who is a complete stranger that the checking of windows, doors, bags, electrical appliances compulsions got to be so bad I couldn't leave the house most days. When I got called up for a phone interview the other week I was asked about that particular gap in my employment history. I told them I had saved the money from the job previous to that and went to Europe. I hate the idea of lying but it seemed to be the easiest way to go. Anyway, the in person interview I knocked their socks off and got the job and all they will ever know is that I have a serious attention to detail.

I got burned when I was doing WFTD and I told my organiser that I was OCD and he proceeded to parade me in front of all the staff and in a loud voice assure them all I wasn't a loony psycho. That was the last time I ever told anybody outside of family and close friends. While you may find some people are very understanding there will also be clueless idiots who just make it so much harder.

MissyChaos writes...

I told my organiser that I was OCD and he proceeded to parade me in front of all the staff and in a loud voice assure them all I wasn't a loony psycho.

Cream of the crop working in centrelink.
what a jerk.

You owe no person the truth, it's just a job, the people are just workmates they are not chosen individuals within your life...bottom line is from the top to the bottom they are nobody important...tell them you travelled, have your story straight though.

9 times out of 10 the average person will let you down if they think it will raise them up...never forget it.

You're only as good as your last gig. In I.T skills/knowledge can become outdated pretty quickly anyway even if you do remember them.

It can really depend, if you're in an interview where it seems more like you're a police suspect you're probably best off no where near that company and it's culture anyway. I'd favour an approach where if they grill you too hard just forget it, don't be so desperate that you'll take a job that will send you right back to square one.

Yes I used to put dates and then a couple of years ago got into a long conversation with some clown of an employer who spent 10 minutes discussing why I had a 2 month gap between two jobs, was because I had moved countries. Anyway he was still not convinced of the reason being genuine and get this, it was something that had happened 10 years previously. What does it matter if there are few gaps? particularly in IT and other jobs where changes and extinctions of technology are the norm rather than the exception. To assume that anyone with a gap in thier working lives is a criminal or a lunatic is stupidity on steroids. I often find that I work much better after one of these enforced breaks for whatever reason. I now have a 4 year gap since my last proper job so technicaly I am unemployable (and have been told so) even though I still get up at 7 am, do odd jobs and some ad hoc computer bits and pieces however tell this to a potential employer and you may as well tell them you have just carved up a bus load of school kids.