Whirlpool

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/opinion/hold-the-dole-put-reforming-ideas-to-work/story-e6frgd0x-1225834642563

Disability pension recipients now as high as 700,000. Apparently one third of these people could be working in full time or part time jobs. But they are dodging work and living the life of luxury. Tony Abbott wants to target the pensioners. This man needs to show some compassion and leave the pensioners alone.

The disability pensioners are the hidden unemployed. In one generation's time disability pensions could reach 1 million.

Disability pension recipients now as high as 700,000. Apparently one third of these people could be working in full time or part time jobs. But they are dodging work and living the life of luxury.

Yep. Successive governments are using this to sweep unemployment under the rug. As to your comments, dodging work, living the life of luxury. They are leading a soul destroying, demeaning, hand to mouth welfare existence. Period. I would bet most would be happy to take on meaningful, paid work, if they could. Australia has some of the worst socio economic indicators out there. To hear some folk, you wouldnt think so.l

as with everything in life, some people need the system and dont want to reply on it, but have no choice.

Others screw the system and end up dodging work and living the life of luxury.

Im all for the gov working towards finding those who screw the system (and slaughtering them like pigs), but leave the genuine cases alone.

numonex writes...

living the life of luxury.

Oh yes. Didn't you know that all pensioners receive so much income from taxpayers that they get to live the life of luxury!?

I don't understand why it's OK for governments to go after dole bludgers but as soon as they mention the word "pension" everyone gets upset (not to say they shouldn't be going after dole bludgers). It's not as though they're targeting those who are unable to move or who have serious illnesses that prevent them from going out and earning money. He is talking about targeting those who should be able to earn a living but who aren't doing so because, like the dole bludgers, they've found a way to sit at home and have us pay their bills.

I know of at least one person like that and it annoys me to no end. Some people don't understand that although this country is currently the fastest growing GDP in the western world, we simply can't afford to have so many people with their hands out. Those who are able need to pull their weight to a) keep the country prosperous; and b) support those who, through no fault of their own, are unable to support themselves.

I for one think this is a great idea and it's long overdue. I grew up in Elizabeth in SA and I can tell you from that experience that there are too many people getting away with taking from the system where they are more than able to put back into it.

Whilst I think the comment about luxury is ludricrous, the general sentiment I agree with.

Old age pensioners I can understand (providing they actually worked and paid taxes in this country for a number of years)

But there are a lot of people on disability etc that simply dont deserve it. Stats on the breakup of them (from 2005 or something though)

33 per cent of people on DSP have musculo-skeletal disabilities (loss of mobility & limbs); 25 per cent have psychological & psychiatric conditions; 11 per cent have intellectual & learning disabilities; 5 per cent circulatory system problems; and, 21 per cent other conditions.

I would wager a very very small percent of them couldnt work in any capacity.

Ken M writes...

Oh yes. Didn't you know that all pensioners receive so much income from taxpayers that they get to live the life of luxury!?

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think anyone, relying on any form of welfare is doing it very tough (financially and most likely emotionally/physically). I sympathize with them and wish we could help them more.

What I do have a beef with, is people illegitimately claiming welfare and being paid under the table at work or cheating the system in some other way. As a country, we can't support those that cheat the system or it will collapse for everyone.

.:IM:. writes...

What I do have a beef with, is people illegitimately claiming welfare and being paid under the table at work or cheating the system in some other way. As a country, we can't support those that cheat the system or it will collapse for everyone.

I know of people that have made a career out of 'working' the system. In my line of work, they stand out. Never worked a day in their life (while being more than capable) then whinge when they are asked to contribute to their own welfare. They're a lot smarter than anyone that does the work to keep them comfy (taxpayers). It's a cyclical thing a lot of the time. Parents that bring their kids up to know how to rort the system before they hit legal working age. While the people that really need accommodation and support are short changed in availability of opportunity and really useful help. It's not just a financial matter, it's a matter for society. The libs have always been hard nosed about welfare $ and give with 1 hand and rip out more with the other, much like all other parties.

Francix writes...

33 per cent of people on DSP have musculo-skeletal disabilities (loss of mobility & limbs); 25 per cent have psychological & psychiatric conditions; 11 per cent have intellectual & learning disabilities; 5 per cent circulatory system problems; and, 21 per cent other conditions.

I would wager a very very small percent of them couldnt work in any capacity

as an employer, would you employ any of them when you can pick and choose with very healthy bodies?

numonex writes...

But they are dodging work and living the life of luxury. Tony Abbott wants to target the pensioners. This man needs to show some compassion and leave the pensioners alone.

I know where pensions could be cut ... hey politician's pensions!

Why is it some politicians get these huge pay outs and often even get them if they find meaningful work after they have left office. They are in better positions than most of the rest of us to find work and to have savings. What about these guys taking a cut so they don't have to go after people who are living hand to mouth so hard?

I don't begrudge them having a small pension after they retire, even one that is a little higher than the normal pension, but what they get is exorbitant.

Anyway back to disability pensions.

Disability pensions are definitely not a life of luxury, especially when you consider that many of the people who live on them need little extras. They are often more than the dole; on the other hand they often have built in factors like medicine allowances and the money goes towards that.

And yes there are many people who are disabled and can work but then let's have a glance:

/forum-replies.cfm?t=1392753

This thread recently was active on Whirlppol and while some people were saying they'd be happy to take on disabled people at work, there were a few people going on about how disabled people were in the "too hard" category. While you've still got those attitudes out there, it's a tough nut to crack. While you don't have equal opportunity at work then you've just made it harder to get people off pensions – it's hard enough for people who are currently unemployed to get a job but when people are against hiring them on principle for a set of traits they cannot change, you've closed another set of doors.

It seems Mr Abbott is all for saying "target pensioners" but what about targeting the attitudes of employers?

Also by creating press that makes disabled people seem like lazy dole bludgers "in general" he does not create a positive atmosphere about disabled people in general and can therefore perpetuate some of the myths about disabled people that some employers may have – that they are difficult, less worthy of employment and less productive and why should I hire them?

Miss Purple writes...

that they are difficult, less worthy of employment and less productive and why should I hire them?

and is exactly what employers think. Of course it is discriminatory to say so but why is it that the work experience job disappear at the end of the trial if you have a disability but miraculously y gets filled later on by an able bodied person?

Abbott and all other politically correct guys can get disabled

Pretty disgusting. If you do the number crunching about 1 in 12 people of working age is on a disability pension.... flapen BULLSHIT.

Francix writes...

But there are a lot of people on disability etc that simply dont deserve it. Stats on the breakup of them (from 2005 or something though)

33 per cent of people on DSP have musculo-skeletal disabilities (loss of mobility & limbs); 25 per cent have psychological & psychiatric conditions; 11 per cent have intellectual & learning disabilities; 5 per cent circulatory system problems; and, 21 per cent other conditions.

I would wager a very very small percent of them couldnt work in any capacity.

It really depends on whether anyone would be willing to employ them (see post and link above) – it seems some well-qualified able-bodied grads are finding it tough to find work ...*

and what you're willing to pay them.

It's easy enough to say "do some work you bludgers" but what do you expect them to do, be happy working in a sweatshop for ten cents an hour and lose their pension over it? They are people too.

I know some people with intellectual disabilities, in fact most have jobs but they also hold a portion if not all of their DSP because the work they do is very lowly paid. What they get paid for a week is what some people on this blog would not accept as their hourly wage, certainly most wouldn't as their daily wage. Many people would blow the lot on lunch.

I don't think it's unreasonable that they keep their DSP. They are in fact filling in roles that employers won't pay well for, but they are jobs that need to get done, and thank goodness someone will do them because most people would turn up their noses at them.

*I'd just like to point out the ability to do work and the ability to find employment are two separate though inter-related things. I just finished up a job and I was talking about another possibly casual position with another potential employer. It seems I am the most suitable for the role as far as the applicants go – I have the knowledge and the skills.

However I am most likely NOT to get the job. The position is probably going to be filled by someone who does NOT have the knowledge nor the skills because of a certain budget and hierarchy policy that has to be strictly adhered to.

There are many times when your ability to work & willingness to work does not necessarily mean you will be employed by someone. They have to be able and willing to hire you.

Miss Purple writes...

It's easy enough to say "do some work you bludgers" but what do you expect them to do

Most people on a DSP want to work.
Unless the Government gets serious about helping people on a DSP no one else will. If the Government gave a tax reduction to employers who employ anyone on a DSP some people may be lucky enough to work.

Of course it's difficult for those with genuine disabilities to find work. No one would dispute that they have it harder than us "able-bodied" people but my issue lies with those who have not so genuine disabilities. I know a person who injured his eye a few years ago at work and managed to milk the system and land himself on a disability pension. His disability is apparently bad enough that he can't work yet he can drive, use a computer with no special aids and do everything I can? He freely admits he can work – he just doesn't see why he should.

To help those with genuine disabilities who want to work and who are having trouble getting hired there should be extra incentives for employers to do so. I used to work for a company who did get some incentives but I'm not sure whether the government still offers those. I'm fairly sure there is a scheme whereby employers hiring those with disabilities get some financial incentives for at least a little while but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think Abbott is attacking those who genuinely shouldn't be working. But I definitely believe there are those who are milking the system as bad or worse than dole bludgers and those are people who are putting a strain on the economy.

I've got a paraplegic mate and he is having real difficulty getting a job, the only work he is having luck with is with his stepdad occasionally, but everyone keeps turning him down at job interviews.

He would love a job.

Also person over 21 on full disability pension only gets $17,446 a year, hardly a life of luxury, probably enough to pay the bills and live off home brand food.

ThatCoolKid writes...

Also person over 21 on full disability pension only gets $17,446 a year, hardly a life of luxury, probably enough to pay the bills
depends on the disability. That's tax free isn't it? Taking rent and basic food costs away, that leaves about $7000 for other expenses, even when living in central Sydney. I was getting about that as my annual salary (after tax) quite some time ago doing 45 hours a week of almost unbearable (physically and mentally) hard slog! It certainly wouldn't be fair if the lowest salaries are comparable to the dole, but experience always counts in the end.

Hot Monster writes...

I was getting about that as my annual salary (after tax) quite some time ago doing 45 hours a week of almost unbearable (physically and mentally) hard slog

When you say quite some time ago,, do you mean in the "70s?

numonex writes...

Tony Abbott wants to target the pensioners. This man needs to show some compassion and leave the pensioners alone.

I said in a previous thread that DSP recipients were going to be subjected to more reviews. This is not a new idea, this was on the cards when Welfare to Work was introduced in 2006. First they targeted those on single parent pensions – once your youngest turns 6 you come off the pension and onto a part time activity tested Newstart payment. That got lots of single parents screaming and yelling how unfair it was, how dare they be made to work during school hours when their kids were at school. Now it's time for the DSP sweep.

You can sit there and make radical statements like "leave the Pensioners alone" however there are quite a number on DSP who are rorting it. DSP used to be for life, so there are a number on this benefit whose original disability has changed (for the better) and can work, or those who are on DSP and can work part time hours who are now going to be forced either off the Pension or forced to work. Why not? As long as a person's brain can function and they are not a blob of jelly they can hold down a job.

It's been a long time coming and I for one embrace it. Make a few more bludgers out there get off their lazy butts and contribute to the tax pool.

Sashyre writes...

As long as a person's brain can function and they are not a blob of jelly they can hold down a job.

It depends if people like that are lucky enough to have a job. I suspect you may be one of those.

I agree – how people dare have a disability. It’s outrageous. Surely they are good for something? While the rest us are hard at work, these pensioners are relaxing in their multi-million dollar yacht sipping Hennessy Cognac. It makes me sick.

My suggestion to the government: Bring back chain-gangs/labour camps. Think about the savings to tax-payer if we had a 700k strong odd-job work force @ minimum wage, ready to be deployed at a moments notice.

I know 2 people who are "disabled" and on the pension, I am not sure what they cannot do but they have no problem gardening hard in their back yards, doing carpentry, painting the house, going shopping and playing golf.
As far as I am concerned they could do "Hire a Hubby" type work no problem. Perhaps their disability is chronic "work avoidance".
Despite this I do know there are many who are disabled so much they cannot work at all. So we need much better assessment methods to weed out the bludgers, unfortunately as happens with all forms of rorting the majority will have to put up with more scrutiny for the actions of (hopefully) the few

JimmahJammah writes...

700k strong odd-job work force @ minimum wage, ready to be deployed at a moments notice.

QC/QA will have a field day with their "output". I once did work experience in accounts and payroll for a medium sized plastic molding factory. Around 1/3 of their workforce is casual and comprised predominantly of transient labourers introduced through Job Network Providers (read: people on NewStart benefits). Compared to our permanent roster, these guys were CONSISTENTLY slower, less able, more inaccurate and a higher OH&S risk. This takes into consideration the fact that they are less familiar than the regular staff with the production facilities.

PooshWaltzer writes...

QC/QA will have a field day with their "output".

Good point. The tax payer might see a better return on investment if we could employ a few overseers who could 'persuade' them to life up their game. The UK had it right in victorian times

The "welfare queen" is a convenient myth put forward by right wingers in an attempt to frighten people into voting for them.

In addition, let's say 1/100 people are a "welfare queen".

So what?

Seriously. You are helping 99 people. 1 person being a jerk is nothing, OH NO THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT AND ITS NOT FAIR, no, sorry, it's worth it to help the other 99 people. Get over your petty jealousies.

With complex issues like this, you have to decide how much money you are going to spend in order to save money.
The more you crack down on particular classes of people who may be rorting the system, the more staff you have to employ in Centrelink to carry out all the extra investigations to determine who is genuine and who isnt.
When the number of people who are receiving benefits becomes too large, then it becomes close to impossible to fix the scheme, without employing large armies of bureaucrats to do the fixing.

Ken M writes...

numonex writes...

Oh yes. Didn't you know that all pensioners receive so much income from taxpayers that they get to live the life of luxury!?

I'm told that when I retire I will be required to be self funded (even though I appear to be self funding superannuation salesmen instead of myself).
I've known about it all my life. I'm not rich, but I put enough away to survive on.
It's not a new idea, my parents did the same.

Why the hell should my tax dollars go towards those who didn't bother?
They SHOULD be living in poverty. Why should they get a free lunch?
Get them out making roads. It will get them fit.....or dead. Either way it will be great for the hospital waiting lists.

Get out and earn or get out of town.

Well since they brought in 'stress' as a medical condition, it's a wonder the whole country isn't playing golf.
I only have to look in the mirror to get post traumatic stress.

There's always a certain amount of societal jetsam that wouldn't work even in an iron lung.

series1rx7 writes...

Seriously. You are helping 99 people. 1 person being a jerk is nothing, OH NO THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT AND ITS NOT FAIR, no, sorry, it's worth it to help the other 99 people. Get over your petty jealousies.

But those numbers can't be true. As they said: 700,000 people are on disability pensions. That means 1 in 12 working people... Thats got to be BS. Our problem is that you can get the pension just buy a few doctors signing a few forms. They don't care if the government has to pay up.

Think about the savings to tax-payer if we had a 700k strong odd-job work force @ minimum wage, ready to be deployed at a moments notice.

Wot, minimum wage? Food, minimal amounts at that. Nothing like a bit of porridge to get workers on their feet, eh, wot. Plus give them some military training, bit like the Volksturm in Germany at the end of World War Two. By golly, now there's some incentive, eh?

I used to frequent a pub near where I once worked a few years ago. After a while you get to know some of the locals. It had more than it's fair share of pension bludging dead-beats.

Case 1: Full Disability Pension. Affliction: Chronic Alcoholic
Yep that's right this guy is unfit to work because he can't stay off the piss. Just need your doctor to say so in writing. In it's infinite wisdom the federal government gives him more money than he would otherwise get on the dole to get pissed with.

Case 2: Full Disability Pension + Dept. of Housing Accommodation. Affliction: Methadone Addict
Ah yes, nothing like a drug problem to disassociate one from their ability to work. Also has the luxury of a new Dept. of Housing provided townhouse in a waterfront public housing estate. I overheard this maggot whinging that when the estate was completed and opened up for the tenants to move in, an old crippled lady got a townhouse with a nice water view. He claimed that it was rightfully his and how dare the Dept. relegate him to anything less. Makes a good second income renting out the spare room of his government provided accommodation. Spends most days getting blind with Case #1.

Case 3: Applied for Full-time Carer's Pension. Affliction: Girlfriend of Case #2.
Borrowed a wheel chair from Case #4 (see below), so she could wheel Case #2 into Centrelink with her to prop up her story. A real class act grifter.

Case 4: Full Disability Pension + Full Armed Services Pension. Affliction: Stroke Victim (walking stick).
Ok so this guy legitimately deserves his disability pension, but should he really get two full pensions? On the military side he was a cook on a destroyer anchored off Vietnam during the war. The boat fired a few shells but he had nothing to do with that. Guess there was a risk the boat could take a hit. Once told me he pulls in over $2.5K / fortnight.

So how is a crack whore smart enough to rort the system when people with genuine problems can't get legitimate support?

That's what befuddles me.

Not to mention 99.5% of people who work at Centrelink have 0 idea of whats going on, its mainly the old schoolers of the public service, who are in their 40s/50s who know how everything works just off their head, who should be getting what etc.

ThatCoolKid writes...

who are in their 40s/50s who know how everything works just off their head, who should be getting what etc.
Where are those people. All we get is the shop assistant, all tarted up, hardly 21, who now works at Centrelink, telling peopel in their 40 and 50 how they should be living.

People get Disability Pensions because they have drug/alcohol/substance abuse issues. But they really do not want to work.

Aspergers Syndrome is a modern illness more people are getting Disability Pensions. Aspergers is similar to other fake illnesses and other fake disabilities. People just say I have Aspergers Syndrome. They get the DSP no questions asked.

numonex writes...

People just say I have Aspergers Syndrome. They get the DSP no questions asked.

I thought one needs a psychiatrist to confirm this disorder before you qualify for the DSP? The same for ADHD. If not I am going over Centrelink tomorrow to apply for either

they should crack down on disabled parking permits.

its just a few that make it hard for people with genuine disabilities.
the government needs to understand that not ALL people are faking it.

looks like australia is adopting Darwins theory of survival of the fittest just like America has done.

whats next........having an insurance company decide what hospital we are to be treated at?

Blaman writes...

ADHD or ADD is

I am sure a lot of people still apply with this one in mind

Your local GP could diagnose you with Asperger's Syndrome with the condition or do you need to get a diagnosis from a pyschiatrist?

Hopefully it is not a Centrelink shrink who has to do the diagnosis.

Self diagnosis as Aspergers Syndrome. Joined up on wrongplanet.net. Is that enough to get the Disability Support Pension?

numonex writes...

Self diagnosis as Aspergers Syndrome. Joined up on wrongplanet.net. Is that enough to get the Disability Support Pension?

That's what I'd like to know. I spend enought time chaine dto my computer to be diagnosed with Asperger's.

Disability Support Pension pays $106 per week more than Newstart Allowance. You do not even have to look for work anymore and employers do not want to employ people with disabilities.

If long term unemployed the extra $5000 per year from DSP is like winning the lottery. You can spend more time pursuing hobbies and enjoying life instead of being stuffed around by Centrelink. DSP is equivalent to the full-time minimum wage when you get the Rental assistance added on top of your DSP.

numonex writes...

DSP is equivalent to the full-time minimum wage when you get the Rental assistance added on top of your DSP.

I guess a lot of old people but not old enough to get the old aged pension are better on the DSP
as they have no chance of getting a job in rural areas

I want to look at it another way. My mum was 60 at her last birthday. She's on the Widow's Pension.

The problem with that is her first husband (my dad :p) and her second are both alive. She's had two marriages and two divorces.

Why? She was on Newstart, and happy to do a bit of voluntary work as a mutual obligation activity, but without prompting they changed her over.

Why? Because underneath the unemployment rate there's the participation rate. As in the figure you see on the news at say 7% really means that 7% of people participating in the workforce are unemployed – they're looking.

By shifting her from Newstart on to the Widow's Pension, she's now not counted as participating in the workforce therefore she's not counted in the statistics.

Similarly, then the high number of DSPs. By shifting people on to them, the Government can artificially lower the number of people participating, thus claiming an "increase" in the employment rate.

heisdeadjim writes...

My mum was 60 at her last birthday

Surely you don't want that poor woman humiliating herself at 60 applying for jobs and knocking on employers doors, so that she can fill in her job diary?
I thinks she has done enough for society if she has had children and brought them up

Why crack down on disability support pensioners?

If more of them joined the dole queues the unemployment rate would be increased from 6% to 10%. Double unemployment over night.

Disability pensions have most likely been long-term unemployed with a lot of barriers to entering the work force. Employers discriminate against people with disabilities and the long-term unemployed. Try explaining long gaps in resume to an employer.

Long-term unemployed should be put onto disability pensioners regardless if they have an illness or not and the unemployment rate would be decreased even more.

Disability Support Pension = never having to work again, not having to deal with the Centrelink bureaucratic BS and extra $106 per week more than New Start allowance and it lowers the unemployment rate by fewer people looking for work.

Barry Dawson writes...

Case 1:2:3:4

Fair few of these types around, valium addiction will get you on a DSP also apparently.

Wasn't Mortlake ?

lambchops writes...

valium addiction will get you on a DSP also apparently

I want to go to this Centrelink office that dishes out DSP like lollies

giggio writes...

Surely you don't want that poor woman humiliating herself at 60 applying for jobs and knocking on employers doors, so that she can fill in her job diary?

She actually wants to work....

I work in a superannuation call centre, the amount of people who are on disability pensions and want to claim their super under tpd/financial hardship grounds makes up at least 10% of my calls. I guarantee you a large amount of those people are not truly deserving of these pensions.

heisdeadjim writes...

She actually wants to work....
I am sure she does... but who is going to employ a 60 years old woman?

heisdeadjim writes...

She actually wants to work....

then she can get a job.

Steven C writes...

want to claim their super under tpd/financial hardship grounds makes up at least 10% of my calls

I am sure it is their money and if they are on a DSP they probably have financial hardship. So why should they leave the money in a fund when the fund loses the money in the stock exchange anyway? Are you a doctor or something. How can you tell that they are not genuine?

Miss Purple writes...

It's easy enough to say "do some work you bludgers" but what do you expect them to do, be happy working in a sweatshop for ten cents an hour and lose their pension over it? They are people too.

Minimum wage prevents 10c an hour, so your point is not well made at all.

numonex writes...

Self diagnosis as Aspergers Syndrome.

Everyone seems to be bi-polar these days too.

Also how exactly does one diagnose "chronic fatigue syndrome".

I'm sure there has to be a Christian cult around somewhere I can join where working is against the faith.

numonex writes...

Try explaining long gaps in resume to an employer.

Laziness.

Did you need help with anything else?

giggio writes...

I am sure she does... but who is going to employ a 60 years old woman?

This bit ^^^^

Steven C writes...

then she can get a job.

Causes problems with that bit ^^^^

She's doing some volunteer work so she's happy with that.

Amano Jyaku writes...

Everyone seems to be bi-polar these days too

Maybe I am clutching at the straws here but how do you get your doctor to certify you with Bi_Polar?

giggio writes...

Maybe I am clutching at the straws here but how do you get your doctor to certify you with Bi_Polar?

Wear the Bundy Bear suit down to the doctors and tell him you can kick with both feet.

heisdeadjim writes...

This bit ^^^^

Life in general ^^^^ if you don't have a job

heisdeadjim writes...

She's doing some volunteer work so she's happy with that.

Volunteer work doesn't put food on her table. Tell her to join a road gang.

Podbox writes...

Wear the Bundy Bear suit down to the doctors and tell him you can kick with both feet.

Did it work for you?

I'm turning 31 this year and on DSP with my wife on Carers for looking after me. It took me a hell of a long time to get my pension even with 3 differant doctors all filling in the forms saying that I would not be suitable to be in the workforce. Its not the easiest thing in the world to get and I'm pretty sure alot of people lie though there teeth to both their doctors and centrelink just to score a pension. These days centrelink dont just take the doctors word for it and make you have appointments with their social workers etc before they decide if you deserve the pension. Plus it works out every 3 years or so they interview you again to see if you still qualify for the pension. I hate people who abuse the system as it has made it so much harder for those of us who really need the assistance.

Yea I agree they should tighten up the rules but not to the detriment of the genuine dsp claimants.

I nkow two people that are genuinely ill / disabled with back/neck issues and the crap they have to go thru at pension review time is dreadful, one guy was reduced to tears and the other was very upset to think they could have there pensions removed on the say so of a CL review officer!, despite a mountain of medical evidence supporting their claims.

Alcoholics, drug addicts in my opinion should perhaps be put on a sep pension say the "addicts pension" thay way CL can monitor them better without upsetting the genuine cases. They could also provide targeted support to these people to help them kick the addiciton perhaps with conditions ie attending meetings etc being placed on their pensions.

Its like any system, its not perfect but I feel a blanket attack on every DSP pensioner isnt the answer.

giggio writes...

Did it work for you?

I have a job.

Here Here

Podbox writes...

Volunteer work doesn't put food on her table. Tell her to join a road gang.

Least my mother can work a road gang..... :p

giggio writes...

So why should they leave the money in a fund when the fund loses the money in the stock exchange anyway?

Yes, because over the long run all super funds have lost people billions upon billions of dollars.

heisdeadjim writes...

She was on Newstart, and happy to do a bit of voluntary work as a mutual obligation activity, but without prompting they changed her over.

I think Newstart income is higher than a Widow's Pension and Centrelink probably did not want to lose money as they think she would never get a job either.

heisdeadjim writes...

Least my mother can work a road gang..... :p

Good on her then!
Give her a shovel and point her in the right direction.....the employed direction.

giggio writes...

I think Newstart income is higher than a Widow's Pension and Centrelink probably did not want to lose money as they think she would never get a job either.

Could be. To a certain extent that's her business. My original point of posting was that the change happened "automagically" without any intervention on her part.

When they play games like that, I suspect it's done to mess with the figures.

Podbox writes...

Give her a shovel and point her in the right direction

Lol, gotta love the keyboard warriors. Say that to her face and you'll wear it :p

giggio writes...

I thinks she has done enough for society if she has had children and brought them up

......You obviously don't know a big croos section of mothers.

Centrelink social workers aka hearltess bureaucrats have more power over a doctor's diagnosis. What sort of BS system is this? Dcotor's diagnosis>>> Social worker's opinion.

lambchops writes...

Wasn't Mortlake ?

Well Picked! Case #2 is in Mortlake, pub is in Burwood.

numonex writes...

Centrelink social workers aka hearltess bureaucrats have more power over a doctor's diagnosis. What sort of BS system is this? Dcotor's diagnosis>>> Social worker's opinion.

A doctor's diagnosis is given at a certain moment in time.
A bludger is a life time operation.

Why crack down on the disabled pensioners? They help lower unemployment rate because they are no longer counted in the official unemployment figures.

End the baby bonus scheme that is more or less a scam. Growing number of single mothers on welfare. Money is most likely spent on Plasma TVs, PS3, XBox 360, drugs, alcohol and not on the baby. Cot $200, Pram $200 and clothes $200. $5000 payment that can be spent on other things. Shopping and party. woot!!

Let's all claim some false kids and get some money to buy drugs, booze and party. If the single mothers can get it the fathers should get it too.

If you have a genuine case and you dont bull**** the social workers, 9 times outta 10 they can be easy to deal with, but if you get one who is having a bad day or think everyone is trying to abuse the system it can be a nervous time for you.

numonex writes...

End the baby bonus scheme that is more or less a scam. Growing number of single mothers on welfare. Money is most likely spent on Plasms, drugs, alcohol and not on the baby

I think you are spot on. I also know people who earn around $80.000 per year and got the baby bonus for twins( ie doubled). This is where the Government needs to get tough

numonex writes...

Why crack down on the disabled pensioners? They help lower unemployment rate because they are no longer counted in the official unemployment figures.

Who cares what they do to statistics?
If they're bludging, move them on.

giggio writes...

["You sound like you are a tarted up Nazi

If he is reporting people who he knows are rorting the government out of money then how is he doing anything wrong? I believe Centrelink and the ATO have online services for reporting tax/handout offenders.

morben writes...

If he is reporting people who he knows are rorting the government out of money
Didn't you get the Nazi's reference in his comment?

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Do you pay tax? Do you like working for free for a large percentage of the year so these mofo can kick back?

I bet I am paying for your DSP too?

giggio writes...

I bet I am paying for your DSP too?

Don't assume.

PooshWaltzer writes...

ASSUMPTIONS...the mother of all F%&K-ups

I put forward a hypothetical, didn't make any assumptions. The reality is less than 1/100.

DanD writes...

series1rx7 writes...

But those numbers can't be true. As they said: 700,000 people are on disability pensions. That means 1 in 12 working people... Thats got to be BS. Our problem is that you can get the pension just buy a few doctors signing a few forms. They don't care if the government has to pay up.

The criteria should be looked at yes, the point I'm making is that the "welfare queen", people that purposefully game the system, are a myth.

Edit: Well I can see most of the people in this thread have taken the right wing propaganda hook line and sinker. Shame.

PooshWaltzer writes...

How did you manage to discover their affairs? Do these people actually publicly flout their status as DSP bludger around the neighourbood?

Obviously, there are more to each story than I could ever type here, so I wont.

But short answer, yes.

In both cases they somehow worked their story of them receiving disability pension into a conversation with me even though I didnt ask about it.

??

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

they somehow worked their story of them receiving disability pension into a conversation with me even though I didnt ask about it.

No offence but you sound a bit unstable

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Do you pay tax? Do you like working for free for a large percentage of the year so these mofo can kick back?

I am fairly certain you are one of these welfare loafers rorting the system. So you speak bad of them but you are one of them. Usually takes a welfare loafer to recognise other fellow welfare loafers.

You could be kicking back on the Disability Pension and enjoying your life. Why wait for retirement for pension? Do it when you are young.

Lol @ the good old it's my taxes that pay to support the welfare loafers. Taxes pay for a lot more than just welfare payments. Roads, public transport, schools, hospitals, Defence Forces, Police and public amenities, etc are funded by tax payer dollars.

numonex writes...

Lol @ the good old it's my taxes that pay to support the welfare loafers. Taxes pay for a lot more than just welfare payments. Roads, public transport, schools, hospitals, Defence Forces, Police and public amenities, etc are funded by tax payer dollars.

Actually there's more to it than simply saying "my taxes support the welfare loafers". Of course taxes pay for more than just welfare but the point is that the whole reason for welfare is so that those who need help and are unable to properly support themselves are given that help. Of course, the money that is spent on them is money that is unavailable for the other things you pointed out which means that we're getting a little less of the infrastructure than we otherwise would. That's ok though because people need the help.
However, there is a major issue with people who put their hands out despite the fact that they DON'T need the help and they ARE able to support themselves and even help to pay the taxes that get us our infrastructure. Therefore, we miss out on that road upgrade or that tax cut because of lazy people who can't be bothered getting off their arse.

So the "my taxes" argument still stands.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Obviously

Just by your user name I can tell you are probably a teenager (just) with little life experience or knowledge about anything, so best you keep quiet now and check with Mum or Dad before posting about adult topics.

numonex writes...

But they are dodging work and living the life of luxury.

as if. I don't call having my income reduced to down to less than 1/3 of what it was, living in luxury. i'm grateful to have what i do have, but luxury – ha. NOT

AussieJosh writes...

Therefore, we miss out on that road upgrade or that tax cut because of lazy people who can't be bothered getting off their arse.

It is not fair to label all unemployed and pensioners as lazy people. Only a minority of them are lazy.

Majority of disabled and long-term nemployed are not there by choice. They have had misfortune or ill health that has lead to their situation. Show some compassionate and stop judging people. You do not know their personal situation, but are quick to judge. This my friend is called ignorance.

Right wing parties are quick to judge people. But they do the least to help the poor and disabled members within society. The tough love approach does not work and crime rates went up as of a result of people being cut off payments for 8 weeks. Centrelink unworkable policies that picked on the disadvantaged members within the community. If you can not eat because of no money you have to steal.

Centrelink is just a nasty piece of work set up to make the lives of disadvantaged people even harder. All those hoops and paper work in the way and red tape stopping people who need payments in order to survive. Howard loved to kick the disadvantaged members of this country but did nothing to help their plight.

Australia is a rich country but it turns its back on its poiorest people. Welfare payments should be handed out to the poor without any questions unless you are going to provide real assistance to these people- give them jobs. Stop judging people and kicking people when they are down. The homeless rates in Australia is growing all the time due to unaffordable housing and the lack of public housing available to people in need.

numonex writes...

Show some compassionate and stop judging people. You do not know their personal situation, but are quick to judge. This my friend is called ignorance.

Actually you have ignored essentially all of my post and picked on one small piece of it.
As I have said in my previous posts in this thread alone, the majority of people on disability are there because they have no choice and they need the help. No one is denying that, nor would anyone seek to.

My problem lies with that minority you referred to who are lazy and are on disability (or the dole) only because they've found a great way to avoid having to do anything to earn a living. Are you trying to say that we should let those people stay on the system? If you think they should be kicked off of it and forced to get a job like the rest of us then you've just agreed with me and your calling me ignorant doesn't fit.

Centrelink's "unworkable" policies are there because the minority have made it hard for the majority. They are there because if Centrelink said "just tell us you're being honest and we'll give you money", they would drown in the people telling them they needed help. It sucks that the genuine people are being caught up in the traps set for the frauds but until someone thinks of a better system, it's a necessary evil.

Welfare payments should be handed out to the poor without any questions unless you are going to provide real assistance to these people

Handing welfare payments to people without questions would be a great way to literally destroy the country. The people left working would need to work every minute of their lives in order to make enough money to pay the taxes required to make such a system workable.
And at the end of the day, the "real assistance" only goes so far. If a fraud is determined to stay on the dole or on disability, how do you propose we as a country "assist" them into a job?

You seem to forget that this welfare money has to come from somewhere. Centrelink doesn't just print the money and hand it out – someone has had to earn it and pay it as tax for Centrelink to then pass on to the eventual receipients. How do you propose we give everyone free money without going bankrupt as a country?

AussieJosh writes...

Centrelink doesn't just print the money and hand it out

Naaah – the Mint does.

Pauline Hanson: Print more money! The solution to our economic woes!

How do you propose we give everyone free money without going bankrupt as a country?

We don't. We leave some people out.

I assure you I'm a good chooser.

Seriously, though, this is a difficult one for Centrelink or any place, because it's just not that easy to "rank" a disability. If you have or had or whatever a disability and knew someone else who had a difficult one – or even sat around listening to oldies chatting about their different ailments – you know how a different ailment can affect all sorts of people in different ways and how it incapacitates them or affects them is very personal and can change over time.

Maybe some disabilities like "paraplegia" or "permanent blindness" it's a bit more objective as to how this affects a person and for how long it will in their life, but many other conditions are very "fuzzy" in terms of degree and length and symptoms etc.

Is it better to have some bludgers on Centrelink or miss out on helping some genuine cases? Where should the line err in favour? (It's a bit like, is it better that nine guilty men go free than one innocent man be imprisoned, or vice versa, when trying to figure out which way the justice system system should go ... because you know you can't be right the whole time)

It is obvious that there are always going to be some people who will try to rort the system. That is just something you can't get away from. The other thing is that is almost certain that there will be a chunk of people who will get away with it too.

The system is not perfect, but I can't say I have any solid proposals of how to fix it.

Miss Purple writes...

Pauline Hanson: Print more money! The solution to our economic woes!

Ironically (or not) that's exactly what they did.

Miss Purple writes...

Is it better to have some bludgers on Centrelink or miss out on helping some genuine cases? Where should the line err in favour?

I understand and agree with your point. The highest priority should be ensuring that any changes don't hit those who are genuinely in need of help.

But I still think the government could be doing more to look into some of the not-so-serious cases.

I just think that we (Australia) are heading into dangerous territory whereby we're going to expect a smaller number of people to pay the taxes to look after a much larger section of the community than we would normally have (i.e. the nation is getting older). So I think we should be doing everything we can to make sure that the money being spent really is going to those who need it because it's about to become more scarce.

It is obvious that there are always going to be some people who will try to rort the system. That is just something you can't get away from. The other thing is that is almost certain that there will be a chunk of people who will get away with it too.

Agreed. Maybe I'm asking too much by expecting that every rorter be kicked off the system but I get sick of watching people abuse it, knowing there's nothing that can be done (usually because they've got a doctor's certificate for something silly but they are technically following the rules).

numonex writes...

I am fairly certain you are one of these welfare loafers rorting the system. So you speak bad of them but you are one of them.

Why would you assume such thing? click on my user name for posts ;)

numonex writes...

Lol @ the good old it's my taxes that pay to support the welfare loafers.

Still , a percentage of federal tax collected are going to Centrelink. Dont get confused with what the state services provide.

I'd prefer 0% going to Centrelink thank you very much. This is a small part of why I am migrating out of this country. I'd much prefer the user pay system where I'm going.

Dont want to work? eat shit.

Simple enough?

MaxBlack writes...

Just by your user name I can tell you are probably a teenager (just) with little life experience or knowledge about anything, so best you keep quiet now and check with Mum or Dad before posting about adult topics.

Yeh I'm sure you can work out all of that by sitting in front of your computer. Dont assume and I wont assume your computer and internet connection is funded by Centrelink, my tax dollars.

heisdeadjim writes...

The problem with that is her first husband (my dad :p) and her second are both alive. She's had two marriages and two divorces.

'Widow' for the purposes of Widows Allowance has an expanded definition – look it up.

By shifting her from Newstart on to the Widow's Pension, she's now not counted as participating in the workforce therefore she's not counted in the statistics.

Rubbish! The u/e rate is not calculated by the number of people in receipt of Newstart Allowance – look it up.

numonex writes...

Right wing parties are quick to judge people.

Welfare payments should be handed out to the poor without any questions

Centrelink is just a nasty piece of work set up to make the lives of disadvantaged people even harder.

You are...
1. An out of work grad,
2. Currently on Newstart and
3. Trying to but unsuccess in your attempts to get on DSP?

provide real assistance to these people- give them jobs

There are jobs...the evidence is right under your nose...they're there for the taking...IF YOU WANT THEM!

fidelia writes...

look it up

Lol, this is the sort of stuff I love. It's my mum, she should know, eh? I mean, she didn't used to work for her local state politician, and he didn't ask Centrelink on her behalf, and they didn't give that answer....

I did mention the participation rate – which is the level with which they calculate the unemployment rate on.

Most certainly the unemplyment rate is NOT a bald "number of people not working" as a number of "total people".

The International Labor Organization – a UN body – considers anyone employed an hour a week as "employed". Nothing wrong with that, it's statistically valid allowing the UN to compare countries.

But, the dodge our Government applies is that if you are on Newstart and report an hour of work, you're adjusted out of the figures.

Or, if you're on a training course, you're adjusted out of the figures.

Or, and the reason why I posted in this thread, if you're on a pension you're adjusted out of the figures.

'Widow' for the purposes of Widows Allowance has an expanded definition – look it up.

Precisely what I am trying to say. They expand the definition to move people onto it and off the unemployment figures. So all you've really done is confirm what I've said, in a roundabout way :p

PooshWaltzer writes...

There are jobs...the evidence is right under your nose...they're there for the taking...IF YOU WANT THEM!

OK I want one – any suggestions – 59 years old on disability (and told by Centerlink how lucky I was).

Willing to do anything that does not require standing for any periods of time and pays more than the massive 675.00 per fortnight.

I can only hope that the pompous dipsticks who write this sort of crap one day end up like me.

numonex writes...

People just say I have Aspergers Syndrome. They get the DSP no questions asked.

Total and absolute rubbish

Clark Kent writes...

Total and absolute rubbish

Couldnt agree more – I had to go through 3 Doctors – only one was my own the other two were chosen by Centrelink.

It really isnt as easy as some think – maybe these people are mistaking getting a disability parking permit with getting a disability pension.

Oh yeah, now where are those jobs? In IT, that's where!! Chennai, Mumbai, Bangalore. Now just rock on up and that job is yours! Not quite under ones nose....

lucky_lad writes...

It really isnt as easy as some think

Indeed. To get on the disability pension is hard WITH a disability. To get on the pension WITHOUT a disability is extremely hard.

You dont just rock up at the counter and say you have aspergers and get on! LOL

I can only hope that the pompous dipsticks who write this sort of crap one day end up like me.

A lot of posters on WP, I would wager, are youngish, still at that stage, "bad things happen to OTHER people"...

Maxwellbest writes...

A lot of posters on WP, I would wager, are youngish, still at that stage, "bad things happen to OTHER people"...

I agree, but if only they realised that unlucky genetics (or pure stipidity) can turn their comfortable existance into a struggle for survival, I am sure they would be much better people.

(I only wish I could be around in 20 to 30 years and see how some of these Heroes are going).

My father has been on pension for the past 35 years (he was eligible for age pension 10 years ago). He would earn 1/10 of the money he would earn at his job. This money isn't enough for someone to live decently and I would fully support the increase of this amount to people with disabilities, considering that they need a lot more money.

Back in the 70s there was a disability pension rort going on. There was a crackdown and things turned back to normal. After a few years history repeats itself!

Nowadays we have the same with most people not willing to have a job and if they have even the slightest case they can stretch it to the limit. The easy way for them is to try to rort the system and they will keep on doing it no matter what.

Keep in mind that in this country we like the numbers to look good. It's the same in criminal activity (Cabramatta used to be the safest area in Sydney according to crime reports!) financial reports etc. So if you don't have a job (but your spouse has one) you're not considered to be unemployed. We certainly don't want those too bored to work to ruin our nice figures. So instead of having them listed as "unemployed" we keep them listed as "disabled" and the stats look good.

Mind you I'm a bit cynical. I don't give a damn about drug addicts, alcoholics and the like. We should be supporting those that want to help themselves not those that have inflicted conditions upon themselves. We should also have a cap in unemployment benefits (no more than 1 year in a 5 year period or sth).

P.S. There are a lot of oldies out there who don't want to get off their high horse. Retirement age is at 65 but lots of them after they have paid off their house and sent their kids out, like to blunge in disability pension and call young people who can't find a job for 2 weeks "dole blungers".

lucky_lad writes...

I agree, but if only they realised that unlucky genetics (or pure stipidity) can turn their comfortable existance into a struggle for survival, I am sure they would be much better people.

(I only wish I could be around in 20 to 30 years and see how some of these Heroes are going).

Heroes go out and get themselves insurance policies and various financial safety nets so that they can continue living the standard they are used to, when something serious happens.

Heroes do not depend on Centrelink for handouts so that they can have a "minimum" standard of living dictated by the governement. Generaly means eating shit for the rest of their lives.

Understand?

AndrewSydney writes...

like to blunge in disability pension

Here it is again – the idea that a disability pension is handed out like lollies at a kids birthday party.

Have any of you cretins with this attitude ever had anything remotely resembling a disability – you know like a sprained ankle or something.

It isn't any fun and those of us infortunate enough to be on it would I beleive give a lot not to be in this physical condition.
(But at least we can spell bludge!).

Look around heroes I am your future!

lucky_lad writes...

It isn't any fun and those of us infortunate enough to be on it would I beleive give a lot not to be in this physical condition.

(But at least we can spell bludge!).

unfortunate irony here.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

This is a small part of why I am migrating out of this country. I'd much prefer the user pay system where I'm going.

Well enjoy the USA. Higher crime rates due to a poor social security system. The Social security system is insurance against the poor people robbing the rich. Better to pay them some money instead of them robbing. But US and its ultra conservative system. Religon BS: God, family and hard work has lead to high crime rates in that country.

If anything happens to you in the USA and you do not have millions of dollars you are in big trouble. No medicare system, the costs for health care over there is astronomical. Private health insurance over there only care about making dollars and they will make up BS excuses not to pay out on claims. Michael Moore's docuymentary "Sicko" painted a very grim reality of the US Health care system. It was appalling and third world countries even had better health services than the poorest people in America.

Miss Purple writes...

Where should the line err in favour?

At the least, it should be set to where the proportion of the population on DSP is not increasing. I can't think of any reason for the proportion to rise over time.

Would it work if rehabilitation (preferred) or appropriate occupational therapy (where rehabilition isn't feasible) was made the recipients' part of "mutual obligation" to receive the DSP? Currently it seems the only obligation is to remain disabled.

numonex writes...

Well enjoy the USA

uh... assumption again.

As for what you said about the USA, I totally agree. Fun to visit, but not fun to reside in. By the way things are going overthere, I'm surprised there hasn't been any street riots yet.

T.S.B. writes...

Currently it seems the only obligation is to remain disabled.

Your quip really does say it all.

you realise you're talking about 2 vastly different payment systems, 1 being the DSP with other being sickness benefits, not sure if DSP enrollment process has changed that much between 94-96, to get it you need a full case medical history you need to see the commonwealth appointed doctor with all the relevant details to be put on it..

it stinks in some cases as there are people who abuse certain payments, including the dsp, though in this case they singled out the DSP though they likely meant the sickness benefit which is only a temp payment scheme to begin with..

while working is a good outcome, in some cases it leads to slave labour when you start looking at the sheltered workshops, you end up working for the pension and get taxed on it..

I think the gov and these silly watch dog orgs, need to go and live on a pension and shop in regular shops instead of living out of food banks and shop hopping to save money end's up costing you money in other area's so you don't..

the problem is each $3 increase in pay you get puts ya rent up, puts the cost of utilities and so forth up so you do more with less.. that $3 would barely cover the cost of a loaf if bread..

I think the gov needs to up the dsp to a realistic level instead using the 1970's costing model and live in the real world..

lucky_lad writes...

T.S.B. writes...Your quip really does say it all.

It was a serious question. Is there any obligation passed to DSP recipients? As far as I know, the only obligation is to have your unfitness for work demonstrated every third year. If there is no obligation, is it feasible and useful to introduce something?

But if you're not here for discussion, don't feel you need to bother with a reply. I understand it can be hard for some people to bother with stuff.

T.S.B. writes...

Is there any obligation passed to DSP recipients?

And this is somehow the recipients problem? I am quite happy to a assessed weekly if it will make you happy. I went to Centrelink to see if they could assist me get work – they took one look at the cane and sent me off to the disability assessment process. As i said earlier – you got a job I can do sitting down that pays more that 675 a fortnight then let me know – I can start anytime.

lucky_lad writes...

I went to Centrelink to see if they could assist me get work – they took one look at the cane and sent me off to the disability assessment process.

So you went looking for work, and got shunted straight to disability. Not your fault.

Centrelink saw you come in, said "This person is disabled, it will be very difficult to find them work and we are not able to rehabilitate them – send them off to disability assessment." Not Centrelink's fault either.

It's not anybody's fault (genuine bludgers aside) but finding fault isn't much use anyway. Question is, can the policy and therefore the system be improved, to help people who are partially or temporarily disabled find worthwhile work and get off the meagre pension? Is mutual obligation a valid framework to apply, and if so, in what form?

From the original llink, it seems Abbott doesn't have any good ideas – more frequent medical checks plus token job applications. Latham may have had better ideas but I don't know what they were.

Ken M writes...

Oh yes. Didn't you know that all pensioners receive so much income from taxpayers that they get to live the life of luxury!?

I personally know people who are fully capable for work but receive the pension. They receive more money then I do and I work (may be low paying work, but it's still work).

They also receive cheaper public transport, cheaper health care, cheaper rego and insurance.

If you ask me, that would be luxury if I could get all that on my wage, let alone more. There are so many people I know on the pension who can work but choose not to. I support all laws that force work capable people off the pension and keep the ones who truly require it on it.

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Look, all the people I have met that are on DSP, 90% of them are fraudulent by "my own judgement".

So make the phone call – believe you can even do it in secret.

I do it all the time when I see fit and able peole using disabled parking spots using Grandmas sticker.

You obviously feel qualified to assess someones disability so do something about it – at least more than moan and groan on this site.

Dob them in – its the Australian way.

Fake01 writes...

There are so many people I know on the pension who can work but choose not to.

A per my previous post, pick up the phone and make the call.

lucky_lad writes...

you got a job I can do sitting down that pays more that 675 a fortnight then let me know

Why don't you get out and look for one yourself?

Why should the world be handed to you on a silver platter?

ANY clerical job in the workforce that is full time should suit your needs and be in your required income bracket.

Fake01 writes...

I personally know people who are fully capable for work but receive the pension.

They receive more money then I do and I work (may be low paying work, but it's still work).

Wow, really?
And here I thought it would be in line with the minimum wage.

Still, to be honest, I'd find life rather dull without having anything to do. And hopefully you've got opportunities down the track to increase your income beyond that of what these people are handed to them. They've got nowhere to move and are completely dependant upon the government handouts. That they're not working means they'll find it much harder to get work down the track, should their pension be reduced or for any other reason.

lucky_lad writes...

So make the phone call – believe you can even do it in secret.

I've done several reports in my time ;)

I know it's hard for people to get onto DSP, having to jump through numerous hoops for Centrelink.

It requires a very determined scum to get onto it fraudulently. They lie, cheat and leech for most of their lives, and lying to Centrelink is all in a days work for them. Too easy for them.

This personality trait is actually very easy to spot. Especially when they are the ones assuming every person they talk to is more stupid than them. A kind of arrogance, sort of, in a way.

I have my fair share of encounters to know. Generally, they are full of shit and every time they open their mouth a piece of shit dribble out of their mouth.

Might work when they're in a Centrelink office, wont work with me.

Hey! sounds like my next career move should be a P.I contractor for Centrelink LOL

lucky_lad writes...

So make the phone call – believe you can even do it in secret.

Problem is that some of them are actually family members. My dad has already tried dobbing them in but failed every time. He soon later joined the crew (as in capable of work but chooses not to).

But they all have medical certificates (or writing on paper) to suggest they are incapable of work. For example, my pop, he can't get work because he's slow in the head and has trouble reading. Problem is I see him read all the time and although he's slow, he's got more then enough intelligence to get a job.

I can't prove these things because all you got to do is act like a retard, show them writing on paper from a professional and they will see you as a retard.

I do however have proof of something else which I will most certainly be dobbing them in for. But only after I have moved out and got my own place.

Fake01 writes...

But they all have medical certificates (or writing on paper) to suggest they are incapable of work.

Thats odd I dont have this magical certificate.

Tell you what, a challenge to you all who seem to think getting on the DSP is simply a matter of going to Centrelink and saying "I am disabled". Try it – get yourself on the DSP and post your pension card here. You can experience a miracle cure immediately afterwards. Personally having gone through the process, faking isnt all that easy. During my assessment the Doctor mentioned she had had four triers in that morning and turned them all down. Please accept the challenge as I would love to see how easy it is for you.

PooshWaltzer writes...

There are jobs...the evidence is right under your nose...they're there for the taking...IF YOU WANT THEM!

I am not sure about this. I can name 3 people who have applied everywhere and cry everynight because they never get a chance

Fake01 writes...

But they all have medical certificates (or writing on paper) to suggest they are incapable of work. For example, my pop, he can't get work because he's slow in the head and has trouble reading. Problem is I see him read all the time and although he's slow, he's got more then enough intelligence to get a job.

I understand your pain! I have a family member who has a medical certificate saying that she gets "stressed" and is therefore unable to work. Although she's not on DSP, it's still a bludge. She's on newstart but doesn't need to look for jobs because of said certificate.
I can't talk to her because I'm disgusted at the idea that someone can be such a bludger and quite happily take money from the system designed to help only those who really need it.

Lucky_lad: With the exception of a couple of people here, I think you'll find that we're all talking about the people bludging the system rather than the genuine cases who need the help.

giggio writes...

PooshWaltzer writes...

I am not sure about this. I can name 3 people who have applied everywhere and cry everynight because they never get a chance

What absolute crap!

AussieJosh writes...

With the exception of a couple of people here, I think you'll find that we're all talking about the people bludging the system
rather than the genuine cases who need the help.

I actually believe your are correct. My problem is that after 16 months of job hunting a reasonable brain and a rooted body, when I see comments like

"Why don't you get out and look for one yourself?

Why should the world be handed to you on a silver platter?"

I really start wishing ill on people. I would really like to meet these sort of idiots and adjust their spinal column with a mallet
and then have a chat with them a year or so down the line. (And my wife says I am a gentle soul :)

lucky_lad writes...

Tell you what, a challenge to you all who seem to think getting on the DSP is simply a matter of going to Centrelink and saying "I am disabled". Try it ....... as I would love to see how easy it is for you.

I am unable to lower myself to accept hand outs.

Podbox writes...

What absolute crap!

Prove it

T.S.B. writes...

Is there any obligation passed to DSP recipients?

Some are on restricted hours, whereby they need to find either 0-7; 8-15; 15-22 hours of work per week.

DSP recipients will be reviewed more often and some may find their payments swapped to NSA if it is deemed they are capable of full time employment.

The ride is almost over, those who can do some sort of work are going to start to feel the pressure.

New claimants find it very hard to get onto DSP and as said, those on it will slowly be seen one by one and reassessed.

lucky_lad writes...

Tell you what, a challenge to you all who seem to think getting on the DSP is simply a matter of going to Centrelink and saying "I am disabled". Try it

My dad has a busted disk in his back. The result is, every time he bends his back it applies pressure on his spine/nerve causing massive amounts of pain and his right leg to temporarily paralyze.

He has medical certificates, writing from doctors saying he cannot work, X-Rays...The lot. The fact he can still stand, walk, run and lift up an object (as it is required to keep your back straight when doing this) means centrelink sees it as he is still capable of laborers jobs.

It literally puts my dad in severe amount of pain when doing repetitive lifting or physical work. But centrelink doesn't give a flying twat about that. He can still work so they don't put him on DSP.

He got tired of the fact that people who can work rock up to centrelink and get DSP for being stupid (such as my pop) and someone like him who is physically incapable that he decided to one day rock up to centrelink and act like an idiot saying he can't get a job because he was slightly mental (or so he said)

Got the DSP soon after that. Seems you have to be mentally incapable of seriously physically incapable to get on the DSP.

Podbox writes...

So what you are paraphrasing is that you are another generational bludger with a long family history of avoiding work?
hey mate, I bet you're on a pension too?

The government should just phase out all discounts on Health Care Card/Pensions. It's ridiculous on how many people cheat the system. I can honestly admit, I'm unemployed (no, I dont have a disability) but I am wanting to work. I do look for jobs and hand in resumes.. Apart from that, I can't say to myself, that's all i can do.. Sure, my resume isnt decent as in employment/study, but to start somewhere, i could either do work experience, volunteer work, join a club, something to show that I'm actively trying to get out there and be a tax payer.

Just thought I add that.

mrvdv writes...

It's ridiculous on how many people cheat the system.
well give us some names for starters

I'm not one to dob in. I have my own life to worry and sort out

lucky_lad writes...

For sure such hubris will not go unrewarded. Those of us over about 16 will simply look at this, shake their heads and smile knowingly.

I have another ten years until I am able to retire (fully funded).....(I smile knowingly at your trite, failed attempt at superiority.)

If you are so good at the the future sadbox perhaps you can whisper the lotto numbers

Workers don't rely on handouts or windfalls that will never eventuate. go out and work for your money. Don't wait for it to drop from the sky.

Create a work ethic for yourself (everyone else can!)

giggio writes...

as an employer, would you employ any of them when you can pick and choose with very healthy bodies?

You have hit it spot on. The reality is even people with certain medical issues, even if they are able to do some degree of work, their existing medical conditions can make them unreliable at times. That is the very essence of it.

T.S.B. writes...

Is there any obligation passed to DSP recipients? As far as I know, the only obligation is to have your unfitness for work demonstrated every third year. If there is no obligation, is it feasible and useful to introduce something?

Do you mean, are there any obligations passed at all or any in order to receive disability pension (which are two different things)?

Firstly you need to demonstrate your ability to receive disability support, and despite what people may be saying, it's not that easy. If you want to receive, say support for a disability from a Uni in your exams and classes, that's a pretty swift and simple process, Centrelink is not as simple.

Depending on your disability you may need reassessments. I'm not sure of this. I don't think there is much point in reassessing a person who has lost both their legs, it's unlikely they are going to grow new ones. Some processes can be a waste of time.

DSP receivers do have an obligation to honestly report assets and income and update income etc, so as to be means tested, and this can affect your DSP or mean you lose it.

I'm not sure if there are obligations to go to work related assessments or advice sessions either.

I'm not sure how feasible and useful it is to introduce something. As it is, Centrelink has a bad reputation for not being that helpful when it comes to work advice, there have been some complaints from those on other threads who have used them (people who are unemployed) who say they are pretty useless. I don't know that they'd be any better especially when you've got possibly more factors to consider in job advice for disabled people.

Maybe it would be useful to team up with an agency who specialised in that area?

As for feasibility – I am not going to even begin to work out a plan here :)

C0rp0r@t3 T3rr0r1st writes...

Look, all the people I have met that are on DSP, 90% of them are fraudulent by "my own judgement".

Have you entertained the possibility that perhaps your judgment is not superior to that of Centrelink's assessors?

If you met me or a person with my illness, I'd wager you would have an exceptionally difficult time judging my ability to hold down a job and be gainfully employed. Even if you knew me relatively well, but were unaware of my regular stays in hospital, you would not once twig that I was not a perfectly healthy human being.

What I'm trying to get at is that not all disabilities are immediately obvious, even to medical professionals — let alone anyone else. You shouldn't be so quick to demonise people.

That said, people with my illness (and presumably many others diseases) don't go around making a big point of the fact that they're getting a pension, lest they find themselves in the uncomfortable position of trying to explain a socially misunderstood condition.

Perhaps the people to which you refer (the big-mouthed "frauds") are indeed not representative of the DSP community given that they so freely admit to receiving the payment.

Podbox writes...

So what you are paraphrasing is that you are another generational bludger

What? I've said in a previous post that I work, I'm no bludger.

with a long family history of avoiding work?

My dad has had about 20 jobs before he decided not to work. It was his last job that resulted in a busted back. He's tried for years to get into electronics as it's something that he loves doing and doesn't require heavy or repetitive lifting, but he is unable to (doesn't have qualifications, and being out of work for so many years has made it difficult).

My uncle served in the navy for 20 years and now inherits more then a million dollars. In fact everyone on my dads side of the family are hard workers and all own their own home.

My mums side of the family are the bludgers. But how dare you call me a bludger, that's an insult as it's something I promised myself never to be and I hate all capable people who bludge off the system.

Miss Purple writes...

I don't think there is much point in reassessing a person who has lost both their legs, it's unlikely they are going to grow new ones. Some processes can be a waste of time.

Spot on, but unfortunately some centrelink clerks still send people on a dialysis machine to be assessed to continue their DSP

Miss Purple writes...

Depending on your disability you may need reassessments. I'm not sure of this. I don't think there is much point in reassessing a person who has lost both their legs, it's unlikely they are going to grow new ones. Some processes can be a waste of time.

Oh some processes are a waste of time, and yet I am willing to bet that those who have lost both their legs who try to apply for the disability would probably still have to go through hell.

For those who have a partial capacity, if you are able to get a decent part time job, and it is something you want, take and get off the Centrelink. Because even if you have a part time job, even if you are still able to get a partial payment, it is not worth the headache, as you still probably gotta deal with your job network member.

Now if I am lucky to find a okay part time job, and find a employer who will not judge me because of my bad health, and can find a minimum of 15 hours per week, and get some good pay, then I will take it.

My biggest obstacle I have now is that I have a long gap in my employment history because of bad health, and the bottom line is I will be judge because of it.

thundergod writes...

to apply for the disability would probably still have to go through hell.
Spot on. The worse the disability the harder it is to convince the clerks

I had to laugh when I saw this.

My wife is employed as a JCA by a federal government agency – her sole job is to conduct interviews to determine ongoing eligability for the DSP. While nothing we discuss is personally identifiable or in great detail, the stories she comes home with are insane.

I'm sure the majority of the population on the DSP need it. Deserve it. Are eligable for it. That's fine. It's the x number of recipients who believe it's their right to receive it though when they're perfectly fit for work which is what really irks me.

Or the ones who continue to work, and then claim it anyway!

– Jason B – writes...

That's fine. It's the x number of recipients who believe it's their right to receive it though when they're perfectly fit for work which is what really irks me.

People do not want to work for minimum award wages if they can get almost as much for doing nothing and you get the extra health care benefits and concessions while on a pension. You get no concessions when you work full time on a minimum award wage.

Or the ones who continue to work, and then claim it anyway!

Minimum award wage only pays $450 after tax is deducted. A pittance to bust your balls all day. You do not get any concessions on mininum full time award wage. So they try to claim some extra money. Good on them.

I got a job. But I have noticed you have been on line most of the day. Are my taxes paying for you too?

I've NEVER been on social security payments.

Fake01 writes...

It was his last job that resulted in a busted back.

having a busted back sucks :(
im 23 and my back is pretty wrecked

the doctor hasnt even mentioned disability and neither has the insurance compary (work injury).I cant beleive people go on disability because of a eye injury or stress.

i am sick of my job (because of my back) but i dont want to be jobless as it would be so boring so im doing a uni entry course this year :) + working full time
there is so many options out there for people who want to have a go but i suppose centerlink is the easy option

numonex writes...

People do not want to work for minimum award wages if they can get almost as much for doing nothing and you get the extra health care benefits and concessions while on a pension. You get no concessions when you work full time on a minimum award wage.

That is true. If you compare someone who is on the Newstart, and compare someone who is working but only part time that earns a similar amount to what the Newstart pays, you will find the person on the Newstart will be financially better off.

That is reality.

numonex writes...

People do not want to work for minimum award wages if they can get almost as much for doing nothing and you get the extra health care benefits and concessions while on a pension

This is true of older workers ( 40 to 64) and I don't blame them. When you get to that age you may get what I mean

numonex writes...

Minimum award wage only pays $450 after tax is deducted. A pittance to bust your balls all day. You do not get any concessions on mininum full time award wage. So they try to claim some extra money. Good on them.

Not my (or any other taxpayer's) problem. We don't live in a socialist society.

Podbox writes...

None of the above (......although I am constantly amazed at the number of people who don't work that have Foxtel....)
Me too. I can't afford it

Podbox writes...

None of the above (......although I am constantly amazed at the number of people who don't work that have Foxtel....)

Maybe depending where they live, maybe they are not paying rent. Gotta remember that if you are someone on the centrelink, having to pay rent and not having to pay rent are 2 big factors.

Another big factor to consider is if the person doesn't have a family of their own, as not having a family to worry about financially, and not having to pay rent, are really 2 big burdens a person on the centrelink doesn't have to worry about.

Fake01 writes...

(doesn't have qualifications, and being out of work for so many years has made it difficult).

.. then get some qualifications?

Miss Purple writes...

As it is, Centrelink has a bad reputation for not being that helpful when it comes to work advice,

I am not surprised given Centrelink do not offer work advice. Centrelink only deal with payments. Obviously you have no idea how Centrelink works to make that silly statement.

Podbox writes...

What I am saying is that if you are on the dole and you are able to afford Foxtel, then you're overpaid.
Sometimes Foxtel is all that's in the room.

Please ensure that future posts are on-topic and are not personally attacking another user.

Further deletions will be treated as zero tolerance.

Thank you.

– Jason B – writes...

then get some qualifications?

He's tried, but looking after 3 kids, it's nor exactly easy to prepare them for school, go to tafe, get home in time for kids, look after kids and study at the same time while kids are playing up and doing stupid kiddy stuff.

Now that two of his kids have left with one to go, I don't see why he doesn't pursue with his career, back then when I was young and living with him I could understand. But now, it just enrages me slightly.

Sashyre writes...

I am not surprised given Centrelink do not offer work advice. Centrelink only deal with payments. Obviously you have no idea how Centrelink works to make that silly statement.

I don't think that's correct at all.

If you look on the Centrelink website, they first of all not only offer payments but concessions, including concessions which support training and education.

Their website also provides a whole lot of links on job seeking.

They also hold something called the Centrelink Jobs Expos.

Centrelink also boasts Career Information Centres:

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/services/career_centres.htm

"Centrelink's Career Information Centres are "one-stop-shops" providing a comprehensive free service to all Australians. Specialist staff provide assistance to students, the unemployed or people who are looking at changing jobs. Career Information Centres can help customers make informed decisions about education, training and employment options and pathways."

There are also a multitide of other services listed on the Centrelink website so I believe that to say they deal in payments only is somewhat misleading.

Disability Pension is more or less life time of a free ride at the expense of hard working tax payers. But living off of less than $400 a week for the rest of your life is not very easy if you are disabled.

It's $20000 p.a. tax free.
Not bad for doing nothing.

Actually it is more like 16.5k per annum.
The Gov't is promoting people on DSP and Carers to find employment with incentives like an extra one off payment of over $1000 to go to tafe to learn a new trade.

Hunched back is that enough to get the DSP these days?
Walk into Centrelink say to the assessor. I have a hunched back i can not do physical manual labour.

If someone has depression, anxiety, autism as well as a few psychical problems (a minor to moderate back problem and below average eye sight) should they be on the dsp or be working?
Would you employ them ? If so what job would they have ?
This person was told by one of the centrelink assessors to make sandwiches at some place that doesn't have time restrictions.
Are there really places that would employ you for 7 hours a day to make sandwiches at your own pace?

I do know of 2 cases of the dsp being abused

Case 1
The guy who lives down the road from me. He was getting the dsp for having a bad back. Though he was still being able to pull cars apart and build a garage.

Case 2
A girl who claimed she wasn't able to be told what to do. If someone did in a job environment she would tell the people to f off. That was enough to get her the dsp.

Junkies and drunks can even get the DSP. Why not just hand it out to every long-term unemployed dole bludger?

So there are lazy people who do not want to work. Give them money and tell them to go away instead of wasting time trying to get them back into the workforce or put them in prison or force them into the ADF.

Your taxes are being wasted to support junkies, drunks, ex-cons and other low lives.

So what can be done about this growing problem within society. Tax payers money being wasted on scum? Any ideas people?

Fake disabled people claiming Disability Support Pensions for fraudulent claims. Made up illnesses including: Aspergers syndrome, ADHD, ADD, sore backs, hunched backs, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and various other illnesses and drug addictions and substance abuse problems. But most of these people are earning money on the side as well as the Disability Support Pension. They are working as shonky tradesmen, drug dealers and many other occupations in the black market.

How can you possibly stop all these scammers in this country they are every where?

Francix writes...

people on DSP have musculo-skeletal disabilities (loss of mobility & limbs) A lot of people who are on disability also have other underlying health issues which effects their daily quality of life & I know only to well about this, I'm on a blind pension but I also suffer from epilepsy, Arthritis & Fibromyalgia Syndrome which is like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome but this is a condition where their is no cure. Some people can have mild symptoms but in more severe cases where I fall into they have problems with stomach ulcers, I.B.S & not being able to get a decent nights sleep.

I have to take 16 tablets a day which comprises of 7 different kinds of medication & that only make me function to a certain degree but at least it gives me some quality of life, I can just see it now if Mr Abbot had his way we would have to be on life support before people would qualify for a DSP & yes if a disabled person can work then they should. A disabled person may be able to get some kind of work if they were to live in a major capital city or a large regional centre but in a rural area all the work offered is manual labour & you need to be able to drive.

numonex writes...

They are working as shonky tradesmen, drug dealers and many other occupations in the black market.

If you know someone who is working as a drug dealer you turn them into the police or as a shonky tradesman, turn them in ... maybe to Today Tonight would be more appropriate. They are not doing the right thing and whether they get the pension or not should not be the issue. The fact that they're doing the wrong thing should be the issue!

casper1975 writes...

A lot of people who are on disability also have other underlying health issues which effects their daily quality of life

True. I have an uncle (fortunately he's of retirement age anyhow but ...) who has what would generally be termed a "bad back". But he has some terrible muscle problems with it and really, he's in a lot of pain even when he's sitting down. It's not just a matter of, lie down and he's all better, though naturally when he's in a certain position he's more comfortable than in others. He takes medication and took up smoking constantly just for relief, but he really experiences, from what I know, a lot of difficulties including pain and shaking and difficulty relaxing.

Other people I know have one "main" disability but many other related medical conditions as well. It's not widely appreciated that this can really impact on a person.

Miss Purple writes...

The fact that they're doing the wrong thing should be the issue! +1

DodoSucka writes...

Actually it is more like 16.5k per annum.

If you want to be particular, it's $17469. If your also renting, add on $2906 PA.
That would be $20375, before any other handouts for doing nothing are added on.

Not bad for a single person doing absolutely nothing for anyone but himself.

GothicPenguin writes...

If someone has depression, anxiety, autism as well as a few psychical problems (a minor to moderate back problem and below average eye sight) should they be on the dsp or be working?

Many people work with varying levels of depression, many undiagnosed, for their whole life.
Anxiety.....You would have to be joking.
Autism – It would depend on the type and severity but once again, many work with mild forms.
Minor to moderate back problem – Allow me to introduce you to 10% of the workforce.
Below average eye sight.....Please refer to anxiety as listed above.

What I am seeing is a person who doesn't want to work.

casper1975 writes...

A lot of people who are on disability also have other underlying health issues which effects their daily quality of life

I completely agree.

The point here is that there is a significant percentage who are on it simply because they don't want to work.

Miss Purple writes...

True. I have an uncle (fortunately he's of retirement age anyhow but ...) who has what would generally be termed a "bad back". But he has some terrible muscle problems with it and really, he's in a lot of pain even when he's sitting down. It's not just a matter of, lie down and he's all better, though naturally when he's in a certain position he's more comfortable than in others. He takes medication and took up smoking constantly just for relief, but he really experiences, from what I know, a lot of difficulties including pain and shaking and difficulty relaxing. I'm very similar to your uncle I find it extremely difficult to relax as I can't sit down for to long & I'm not able to tolerate standing for no more than 5 minutes, I smoke as well for the very same reason I use to go through 4 packs a fortnight but I've cut back to 2 & I use a Electronic Cigarette which saves me a bit of money.

Other people I know have one "main" disability but many other related medical conditions as well. It's not widely appreciated that this can really impact on a person. That's one thing Mr Abbot will have to understand if he want's to bring in these changes not 1 size fits all

Podbox writes...

Anxiety.....You would have to be joking.

You've obviously never experienced it or known someone that has then.

My sisters husband is that bad he cannot leave the house sometimes because of his anxiety.

Anxiety usually goes hand in hand with depresion and some people suffer from paranoid delusions as well as anxiety.

Not having a dig at you personally but anxiety can be a very serious illness.

Podbox writes...

The point here is that there is a significant percentage who are on it simply because they don't want to work. I totally agree if I didn't have my eyesight or medical problems I'd like to work out at the new mine they've opened up in my area or even as a farm hand as I really like animals, I actually wanted to get my own hobby farm but when you can't drive or there is a risk you may hurt yourself then that seems like a pipe dream.

Podbox writes...

Many people work with varying levels of depression Very True

What I am seeing is a person who doesn't want to work. Well as you said it all depend on the severity of their disability but usually employers don't want to employ the disabled because they will have to make modifications to the work place, A blind or vision impaired person may strike it lucky & get work in a office but normally they end up working in a sheltered workshop where they get paid $3.00 a hour.

GothicPenguin writes...

Are there really places that would employ you for 7 hours a day to make sandwiches at your own pace?

There are empathetic employers out there that allow for people with work restrictions from simply being a parent/care giver to mental health issues where you need to either go home early or take the day off.

Not all employers are bastards who will flog you till you are bleeding 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

There are agencies out there that work with those who have restrictions and health issues, sourcing employers to take them on.

Funny how some of those who have some major mental health issues, like anxiety, deal with them a lot better when they start working and get into the swing of things so to speak.

I heard recently of a young lady aged 19 who could not leave the house because of her anxieties, who after obtaining a few hours a week stocking shelves in a major supermarket chain, came out of her shell to the point she recently worked checkout over the Christmas period. She now works 30 hours a week and is off DSP.

All it takes with some people is a guiding hand and encouragment.

Mungbean66 writes...

I respect that you give an honest opinion but saying one should just toughen up and bare it, is a little insensitive.

He told me I should join the dole because a few of my family members are on it and I should be disgusted. Perhaps his honest opinion suggests I should actually do it and quit my job?

Fake01 writes...

I should actually do it and quit my job?

Quit your job and be prepared to wait up to 12 weeks to draw benefits. Oh and it is means tested too.

Sashyre writes...

Quit your job and be prepared to wait up to 12 weeks to draw benefits. Oh and it is means tested too.

It was a sarcastic remark, I'm fully aware of centrelink wait times. It took 3 months to go from Youth Allowance to away from home allowance when I got kicked out of my mums place and refused to live with my dad.

I have a job now and usually earn close ot or more in one week then I did on centrelink in a fortnight.

Back when the CES was around, a big part of our job was working with people on various sickness benefit/disability support payments. We had to assess wehre they were mentally and physically, and then get them into training, re-training, and into work, often subsidised job placements.

Every person was different, some were rorting the system, but most wanted to work.

Now the job is being done by all private agencies, the amount of time and effort needed to work with these people is often unattractive to their bottom line.

Fact is, there's a workforce we could be utilising there, but it often takes a middle-man... we'd go into workplaces and look at the job, and could see ways to make it possible. soemtimes just changing things a little made it possible for someone to have a job, and someone to have a good worker.

Abbott's approach though is just to kick-kick-kick. No one wins.

I've been on the DSP for seven long years. I have what another poster referred to as a "made up" disease – Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – for just over ten years. I can tell you (and show you) that CFS is not made up or all in the mind. It's a very real organic illness. I'm in my mid 30s. There's not a day that goes by that I don't wish I could work 8 hours without repercussions (CFS has a payback called post extertional malaise, basically if I overdue it I end up in bed for a week with flu-like symptoms). When I'm able I do sporadic web design. However despite the daily physical and mental pain, fatigue, sleep and immune dysfunction do you know how much of a blow it is to your self esteem and self worth when people ask you what you do, or worse still, give you a disbelieving comment when you mention CFS? This should've have been the peak time of my career. My friends and family are on good jobs (earning 2-5x my net), getting married and having families. I'm getting blue care cleaners and meals on wheels.

Whim me if you want a link to my website which documents my blood and other pathology abnormalities and symptoms. I'll also give you a my spreadsheet for last year showing how I was in the red despite the cushy $20k pension.

For someone in good health 20k probably seems like a decent amount but (genuine) complex and chronic conditions require doctors that do not generally bulk bill, medications (and supplements) usually not on the PBS and testing which is often not medicare rebateable along with allied health (Physio, Denist, Podiatry etc) which of course even if you are in a health fund (another cost) is in some way out of pocket.

Diagnosis of CFS is difficult but possible

http://aboutmecfs.org/Basics/MECFSDiag.aspx

I have gone back to Uni this year part time to study Health Science. It's a hard, hard slog but enjoy it.

paperjunk writes...

I have what another poster referred to as a "made up" disease – Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – for just over ten years. I can tell you (and show you) that CFS is not made up or all in the mind. It's a very real organic illness.

I have heard of CFS.

I can only imagine how bad it is for ya. I gather alot of the time you would be in bed because you would be feeling tired, lack of energy to stay up for long period?

paperjunk writes...

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome It's a recognised medical condition.

There's not a day that goes by that I don't wish I could work 8 hours without repercussions I'm the same with my condition we have to go slow & it's not our choice.

basically if I overdue it I end up in bed for a week with flu-like symptoms Yes with FMS when we get the flue it's worse as it takes me more than 2 weeks to get over it.

When I'm able I do sporadic web design. However despite the daily physical and mental pain, fatigue, sleep and immune dysfunction do you know how much of a blow it is to your self esteem Your not wrong there I try to run 2 home base businesses even though I've only made about $30.00 in the past 18 months at least it's something, I'm legally blind so in life you always have had people telling you that your a nobody so I only know to well about the self esteem thing.

My friends and family are on good jobs (earning 2-5x my net), getting married and having families. Me to that's something that play on my mind quite a bit I'm 35 & like you said I should have been at the peak of my career.

Diagnosis of CFS is difficult Very true it took 4 years & weekly hospital visits before I was diagnosed with FMS.

Mungbean66 writes...

My sisters husband is that bad he cannot leave the house sometimes because of his anxiety.

Not having a dig at you personally but anxiety can be a very serious illness.

Sure is, but it shouldn't stop someone from working. Just need to find the right job.

As a fellow sufferer of both severe anxiety and depression (and throw in some aspergers there too) I'm not saying its easy, but it can be done.

cupcakez writes...

As a fellow sufferer of both severe anxiety and depression (and throw in some aspergers there too) I'm not saying its easy, but it can be done.

Aspergers syndrome is a huge con. It is a fake illness so that lazy gits can rort the disability system and never have to work again. Aspergers = Ass burgers. So easy to fake Aspergers syndrome and get diagnosed with it and than you can use it as an excuse and get you a disabled pension.

numonex writes...

Aspergers syndrome is a huge con. It is a fake illness so that lazy gits can rort the disability system and never have to work again. Aspergers = Ass burgers. So easy to fake Aspergers syndrome and get diagnosed with it and than you can use it as an excuse and get you a disabled pension. How is someone able to fake that condition when most likely they have had that since childhood & what other conditions do you think are fake.

A lot of adults are being diagnosed with Aspergers since it was introduced in 1994. It has become very popular due to the internet technology revolution.

ADD/ADHD was the big illness in the 1990s. This lead to a lot of people being addicted to dexyamphetamines found in the prescribed medication ritalin which was frequently sold at school to get other kids high.

Aspergers Syndrome is the modern day buzz illness. Self diagnosis of the illness on the internet through quizzes and online forums. Get out of here.

Aspergers Syndrome is very broad and doctors will diagnose it to lots of people whether they have it or not. A lot like ADD/ADHD kids being put on drugs who really did not need it. They needed discipline but parents are too soft or too lazy these days to discipline their naughty kids.

cupcakez writes...

Sure is, but it shouldn't stop someone from working.

He does work but it can affect him from working to his full potential. I just support the idea that if their anxiety is bad enough then it can 'disable' someone.

Kudos to you cupcakez, I'm impressed that you still power through the day and get your job done :).

I suffer from bipolar disorder, panic atack disorder, sever claustrophobia and borderline personality disorder.

My symptoms have been at times, as bad as thinking a stain on the wall was the devil controlling my mind.

I've been unemployed 18 month since my breakdown, which was my first diagnosis in 18 years. I put up with it for 18 years on my own, and it almost killed me many times. I also thought it was actually "laziness" as that's what all of my so well "educated" teachers and superiors always told me. This guilt trip as you can imagine, isn't a very effective cognitive behavioural therapy.

You think they gave me a disability pension? nope. Why, because they felt stupid about giving it to so many people that didn't deserve it , why not take it from a few who do to make up for it. The same way Victoria likes to adjust its laws after the judges let off all the rich bastards due to incompetence, they have to make mandatory laws so the people who actually do deserve some sort of consideration get none.

Yet if i wait another 6 months, they have in effect no option as the reasoning was that i should be able to reskill before two years is out. So do you think im going to wait 6 months to pocket $12,000 in backpay...

No im not , because i am a good hard working person who actually did deserve the pension to help me recover, which might of been twice as fast if i could afford psychiatry.

So in effect the government sais this.

"We think you'll get so sick of suffering and misery before two years are up, youll be forced to find work,.. or die"

Podbox writes...

Has he tried the old remedy

By the looks of your comments you are very young, and consequently have little life experience. When you have more life experience you will realise that a lot of people are on Disability pensions because of injuries they sustained in later life. You have the benefit of youth, you had better hope that you don't sustain a serious injury and have to go on the pension. Like I said to another, unless you walk in another wo/man's shoes you cannot judge them.

numonex writes...

Tony Abbott wants to target the pensioners

pfft

Tony Abbott wants to target the pensioners. This man needs to show some compassion and leave the pensioners alone.

yes he should leave the pensioners alone.....

paperjunk writes...

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – for just over ten years

Chronic Fatigue is a horrible dibilitating disease. My thoughts are with you.

have gone back to Uni this year part time

congratulations, keep going, its a hard slog but worth it.

numonex writes...

Aspergers syndrome is a huge con. Numonex, get back into your box. How can you criticise people on DSP, when you yourself admit to bludging on the dole????? with no intentions of working, not even volunteer work – ever.

numonex writes...

A lot of adults are being diagnosed with Aspergers since it was introduced in 1994. It has become very popular due to the internet technology revolution. You make it sound like it's the next big thing since sliced bread.

ADD/ADHD was the big illness in the 1990s. This lead to a lot of people being addicted to dexyamphetamines found in the prescribed medication ritalin which was frequently sold at school to get other kids high. True ritalin is known as speed for kids & there has been cases of this drug being sold in schools.

Aspergers Syndrome is the modern day buzz illness. Self diagnosis of the illness on the internet through quizzes and online forums. Get out of here. Yet again you make it sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

Aspergers Syndrome is very broad and doctors will diagnose it to lots of people whether they have it or not. A lot like ADD/ADHD kids being put on drugs who really did not need it. True but you just can't go into a centrelink office & asked to be put on the DSP you have to get several medical certificates from different doctors to prove that you actually have a disability.

Zahira1 writes...

How can you criticise people on DSP, when you yourself admit to bludging on the dole????? with no intentions of working, not even volunteer work – ever. I totally agree it's double standards although I'm on disability I still manage to do a bit of volunteer work.

Maxwellbest writes...

Disability pension recipients now as high as 700,000. Apparently one third of these people could be working in full time or part time jobs. But they are dodging work and living the life of luxury.

I'm aware of one of these "one third" myself. Worse, even. They claim/claimed a disability pension for a "problem" that didn't exist. They spent all day on a computer, or playing video games, when in actual fact, their "I can't handle working" attitude was what stopped them from working, even part-time. I'm all for cracking down on disability-claiming cheats, so long as it doesn't affect those who actually need this support.

/$0.02

Deus Sceleris writes...

I'm aware of one of these "one third" myself. Worse, even. They claim/claimed a disability pension for a "problem" that didn't exist. They spent all day on a computer, or playing video games, when in actual fact, their "I can't handle working" attitude was what stopped them from working, even part-time. I'm all for cracking down on disability-claiming cheats, so long as it doesn't affect those who actually need this support. Hmm interesting if there are people like this then don't you think that there could be some doctors out there who would actually lie so a patient can get disability, If a person can only work part time they would still need some kind of support as you can not live on a part time wage.

Zahira1 writes...

with no intentions of working, not even volunteer work – ever.

I have done my Work for the Dole numerous times. Work for the Dole is compulsory volunteer work. I have applied for 1000's of jobs but I only apply for these high paying jobs but never seem to get them. Yeah i have never worked a day in my life but I have made up lots of resumes with made up experiences trying to con employers into giving me a management job.

I want the $70k plus management in which you boss people around for doing absolutely nothing. Politics would be a good job get paid over $100k for talking nonsense and lying all the time- just like posting on WP. Not many people get into politics unless you come from a rich background and you have to win a seat in State or Federal politics.

casper1975 writes...

don't you think that there could be some doctors out there who would actually lie so a patient can get disability,

Make them visit more than the one doctor, as an option?

If a person can only work part time

True, but the cheat I mentioned (and others like him) can work full time. If there's an actual disability, sure. Laziness and a bad attitude should leave you on the dole. Seriously, this is like in that Ali G movie, where he injured his scratching finger. That kind of cheat.

Morpheus- writes...

yes he should leave the pensioners alone.....

+1
Pollies shouldn't have a say in DSP, leave it to the docs.

Itch¥ writes...

Pollies shouldn't have a say in DSP, leave it to the docs.

Yes i agree with you, also if the DSP smokes they should reduce their pension by 50% as it may help to cure the disability by lowering the ability to purchase ciggys. Just my humble opinion ;)

numonex writes...

I want the $70k plus management....never worked a day in my life....only apply for these high paying jobs humph and he wonders why he can't get a job. Numonex you cannot accuse others of "bludging" when this is exactly what you are doing.

Itch¥ writes...

+1
Pollies shouldn't have a say in DSP, leave it to the docs.

totally dude :D

I can't quite see how this topic is suitable for Whirlpool, nonetheless I read a few pages then skipped to the end after it became personal attacks and uneducated opinions.

I receive about $430 a week on blind pension including rent assistance & education supplement. 70% of that goes on rent, so I wouldn't describe my living conditions as luxurious.

I have been legally blind since 18 and managed to keep working until last year when I was 23. Despite being able to claim DSP while working, I didn't because I didn't need the money.

When I finally did, it wasn't so easy. Your GP cannot diagnose you as disabled, they just refer you to a specialist. It's difficult enough getting a DSP form signed with a diagnosis, I can't imagine what you'd have to do if you were faking it!

Regardless of what the unemployment rate is in this country, for those with a disability the rate is about 70-80%. Those who do have work are underemployed, meaning they can't get enough work. Few employers are willing to look past the disadvantages, such as your mobility and the inconvenience of having to modify the workplace.

The little amount one can earn with a disability is not that much more than what the pension pays, so there isn't a lot of incentive to put the time and effort into working.

I believe instead of wasting the time and money "cracking down" on pensioners to weed out the few bludgers (which makes the rest of us look bad), the government should be providing services to people with disabilities to help them obtain the skills required to compete in the workforce (we hate working in call centres just as much as the rest of the population) and educating the public by advocating us as a useful source of labour.

In the meantime, I work 7 days a week from my home based workshop cleaning spyware off computers so that I can afford Home Brand tuna...

numonex writes...

I want the $70k plus management

Then you're going to have to climb the job/career ladder and do the hard slog just like everybody else (be nice if I could actually get onto the bottom rung to begin with X( ). Sorry that sounds harsh but 'that's the way it is'.

Yeah i have never worked a day in my life

Outside of 'work experience' I know where your coming from here (I was better off financially on AUSTUDY but worse off with the lack of an employment history X( ). Not something I'm proud of (we the long term employed) but that comes from living in a rural area I suppose (back to TAFE again this year as I apply for another 2 traineeships and wait to hear back on 3 others...).

but I have made up lots of resumes with made up experiences trying to con employers into giving me a management job.

This I have not done (and will not condone neither).
Bet's are the reason you have been knocked back on these is because some employers, HR managers and job agencies did a little homework.
IMO you would be better off caught out here then finding yourself copping the sack for not being able to do a task you should have been able to do with ease from your (fake) past work history. Not only would other businesses that trade with this workplace would blacklist you (the unofficial reason for future unsuccessful employment applications) but I'd be more worried if this lack of skills became a safety issue and caused harm to others...

XaDvAnT writes...

I receive about $430 a week on blind pension

I have been legally blind since 18

Please forgive my ignorance but, lest I've grossly misunderstood your statement, how on earth are you managing to READ these comments and reply post if you're unable to SEE, albeit legally?

Legally blind does not infer absolutely blind. Obviously some vision remains.

PooshWaltzer writes...

how on earth are you managing to READ these comments and reply post if you're unable to SEE

My guide dog reads it to me.

XaDvAnT writes...

My guide dog reads it to me.

Damn smart dog. What's he like tipping at the races? :p

heisdeadjim writes...

Legally blind does not infer absolutely blind. Obviously some vision remains.

I was going to go with a guess of color blindness but he already replied X(

XaDvAnT writes...

My guide dog reads it to me.

how on earth are you managing to READ these comments and reply post

Screen reading sofware, voice to text software possibly. When studying e-business I did a study of website usability with screen readers and while not the same as looking at a website, they at least allow people access to info.

sweetwithdecay writes...

Screen reading sofware, voice to text software possibly.

Why all pictures and images should have appropriate alternative text attached to them. I hope you found that easier to read or hear then a bunch of brackets sweet with decay.

=)

XaDvAnT writes...

My guide dog reads it to me.

So jealous XD

This is gonna sound completely insensitive but I'd do ANYTHING to get one of those as a pet. So well trained, versed and obedient!

I guess saying, "lucky you!" wouldn't be very appropriate huh? :/

PooshWaltzer writes...

So jealous XD

This is gonna sound completely insensitive but I'd do ANYTHING to get one of those as a pet. So well trained, versed and obedient!

I guess saying, "lucky you!" wouldn't be very appropriate huh? :/

Have a chat to the guide dog people – not all dogs pass the full training. I think too they get "retired" dogs back, as well?

I actually use a screen reader called JAWS... and if I had a dollar for every time I head "colon right parenthesis" I wouldn't need to be on the pension :)

Shameless plug: on ABC1 at 8pm tonight there is a demonstration of NVDA, an open source screen reader.

Zahira1 writes...

Chronic Fatigue is a horrible dibilitating disease. My thoughts are with you.

congratulations, keep going, its a hard slog but worth it.

i think the point about CFS is that it seems like anyone with a cold/headache for more than 2-3 days is instantly diagnosed with CFS.

i understand that there are people trully with a case of it, but it is one of those things that not 100% is known about, so GP's like to put the above cases in the too hard basket & say it must be CFS.

about bloody times. Many ppl i know only had one of their feet injured and they are on disable support for life while running a small biz at home...

heisdeadjim writes...

Have a chat to the guide dog people – not all dogs pass the full training. I think too they get "retired" dogs back, as well?

I used to puppy walk for guide dogs. Failure rate is about 90%

Depending when and why they fail determines what happens to them. Some failed dogs will become assistance dogs others to pets in therapy. The final thing of last resort is that they are given to puppy walkers or members of the public.

Dogs are retired at 10years at the laterst 8 to 8 ½ years working. They are taken in as companion dogs, they dont do any "working dog" task. Other dogs that retired early due medical/injury they will sometimes be used for training or public displays

DanD writes...

Pretty disgusting. If you do the number crunching about 1 in 12 people of working age is on a disability pension.... flapen BULLSHIT.

The working age population is 15,000,000.

Thats less than 1 in 20.

I know a guy who is on these disability pensions (mental health/stress), he has dancing lessons on Monday, goes to the gym every second day and eats pretty well. Would he be able to work, YES! but the system is flawed. A few notes from the doctor and you're setup.

XaDvAnT writes...

My guide dog reads it to me.

Nice come-back, XaDvAnT! (colon; right parenthesis)

Thanks for your post.

ratman writes...

I used to puppy walk for guide dogs. Failure rate is about 90%

OK, I'm so gonna google for ex guide dogs, police/patrol dogs and greyhounds. Makes for an excellent pet IMHO and saves them from the dreaded needle.

PooshWaltzer writes...

how on earth are you managing to READ these comments and reply post if you're unable to SEE, albeit legally?

There's a program a bit like Dragon, which reads out the text. oops already answered – JAWS

GetBackToWork writes...

A few notes from the doctor and you're setup.

What notes do you need and how many doctors opinions are required to get the Disability Support Pension? What is the best "illness" to use these days to get it?

I heard that you just need to be assessed by a Centrelink Social Worker and they assess on the spot whether you get the Disability Support Pension. Centrelink Social Worker's opinion more important than doctors diagnosis.

numonex writes...

What notes do you need and how many doctors opinions are required to get the Disability Support Pension?

Bugger all notes, 1 opinion.

I heard that you just need to be assessed by a Centrelink Social Worker and they assess on the spot whether you get the Disability Support Pension.

You heard very very wrong.

But don't let me stop you, your posts are very entertaining.

numonex writes...

What notes do you need and how many doctors opinions are required to get the Disability Support Pension? What is the best "illness" to use these days to get it?

I heard that you just need to be assessed by a Centrelink Social Worker and they assess on the spot whether you get the Disability Support Pension. Centrelink Social Worker's opinion more important than doctors diagnosis.

No lol.

There is two steps in the standard process. The first is a standard medical report that gets completed by a doctor/specialist. The second part is a job capacity assessment which is normally completed by someone at a JSA provider.

It took a lot for me to get on DSP.

Two separate eye conditions, one eye was diagnosed years ago but wasn't enough for "legally blind" status.

The other condition is undiagnosed. All symptoms point towards the retina having electrical problems, but despite all sorts of weird painful tests they cannot find what the problem is.

Took months to get a retinal specialist to realise I wasn't pretending and finally sign the forms. I'm still trying to pay off the medical bills!

I'd give anything to be off the pension and working full time... unless the thing I give renders me disabled in another way.

Sounds like too much hard work to get DSP. You can not just say I have sore back i can not do physical manual labour work anymore. I need the disabled pension.

Cold bureaucrats and red tape is all there are these days. The government wants to make it harder so that you can not escape the monotony of working life and paying taxes. If you are on a minimum award wage forever and doing unskilled jobs because you have nothing to offer. The disability pension would be a better option than being a slave.

We have a relative with Schizophrenia who has been on the Disability pension for over 30 years.

He owns his own home which he inherited and attends a sheltered workshop 5 days a week. He really could hold down a job in a warehouse. The only doctor he sees is the local medical centre that supplies his free medication.

Also a colleague that I work with. Her ex-husband just died before Christmas. She works 20 hours a week like me and Centrelink has said she is still eligible to keep his Disability pension also with all the other benefits and her two teenage kids both get Health Care Cards but they can still afford to travel overseas.

hovercat writes...

The first is a standard medical report that gets completed by a doctor/specialist.

by this time you've seen this doctor for ages trying to get your condition resolved, let alone a tonne of specialists

The second part is a job capacity assessment which is normally completed by someone at a JSA provider.

they have a look at what you can do, and you have to supply them with bucket loads of reports etc.

then .......maybe ....... you get to go on the pension

GetBackToWork writes...

Would he be able to work, YES!

How would you know one way or another? You wouldn't – i'm guessing you aren't a mental health professional.

cabletee writes...

she is still eligible to keep his Disability pension also

only for a short period of time, its called bereavement allowance

GetBackToWork writes...

he has dancing lessons on Monday, goes to the gym every second day and eats pretty well

he is doing all the right things to combat stress. keeping fit, creative outlet and eating well.

Would he be able to work, YES!

never judge a person on the outside until you know the inside

Ken M writes...

Oh yes. Didn't you know that all pensioners receive so much income from taxpayers that they get to live the life of luxury!?

Very true comment! Most Pensioners don't have much luxury – that is for sure but we all know someone bludging on a fake invalid pension. Yes there are many genuine cases that deserve Government support and that has my full support as well.

There are also those that hide assets, lie, cheat and enjoy a fairly good life with no intention of ever going back to work.

The 2 groups have to be kept separate when we refer to invalid pensioners.

Some drive big 4WD's go on overseas holidays and around Australia, Go fishing in boats they own whilst we are at work and then they laugh at us ( The silly workers that are paying for their fun).

The Government needs to do more random checks & when something suspicious turns up follow it through with a proper investigation.

So there are the genuine and pretend invalid Pensioners. The genuine ones deserve every bit of assistance they get. The others need to be caught !

The Government needs to do more random checks & when something suspicious turns up follow it through with a proper investigation.

We do not want the government being Gestapo and invading our privacy. They try this they would meet a violent reaction.

So there are the genuine and pretend invalid Pensioners. The genuine ones deserve every bit of assistance they get. The others need to be caught !

Fake pensioners to be exposed and shown on Trash Tonight or A Crap Affair. Exposed to the world for being a fraud. The audience all get a laugh and the frauds get prosecuted by the full extent of the law. Probably have to repay the money and a suspended jail sentence.

RevengeOfTheNerd writes...

How would you know one way or another? You wouldn't – i'm guessing you aren't a mental health professional.

Exactly. It's not right to judge someone by what tiny fragment of their lifestyle you have witnessed. Only they can truly know the extent of their capabilities, and how much they can do without exacerbating their conditions.

To quote Wikipedia (which takes this from some real sources):

"A welfare queen is a pejorative phrase used in the United States to describe people who are accused of collecting excessive welfare payments through fraud or manipulation. Sensational reporting on welfare fraud began during the early-1960s, appearing in general interest magazines such as Readers Digest. The term entered the American lexicon during Ronald Reagan's 1976 presidential campaign when he described a "welfare queen" from Chicago's South Side.Since then, it has become a stigmatizing label placed on recidivist poor mothers, with studies showing that it often carries gendered and racial connotations.Although American women can no longer stay on welfare indefinitely, the term continues to shape American dialogue on poverty."

And from an interesting article on the matter: http://www.marial.emory.edu/pdfs/wp016_02.pdf

The Welfare Queen myth has proven to be an extremely potent rhetorical tool in a wide range of political settings. She has most famously been used as a justification for cutting government spending on a range of social policies. When Ronald Reagan first introduced America to this image of a scheming welfare recipient who illegally claimed benefits under a number of aliases while driving a “Welfare Cadillac,” he sparked a popular backlash against the Welfare Queen that enabled him to significantly cut AFDC benefits and introduce punitive work
requirements. Though Reagan’s portrait of the Chicago-based Welfare Queen was found to be greatly exaggerated, the outrage over this perpetrator of welfare fraud was enormous and long13 lasting. This demonstrates the rhetorical power of the Welfare Queen myth—the idea of this conniving and evil “welfare cheat” was enough to affect public policy regardless of actual fact.

Despite the cultural resonance of Reagan’s Welfare Queen, there is little evidence that many women on welfare deserved this derogatory label. In fact, when Reagan drew public attention to the “problem” of Welfare Queens, the majority of welfare recipients were white and not black. Moreover, most welfare recipients are on assistance for less than a year and on average have fewer children than the average for the general population (See U.S. House Ways
& Means Committee’s 2000 Green Book). Social science research has also refuted the Welfare Queen stereotype by profiling welfare recipients who work hard to find ways to support themselves and their families in the face of substantial economic and personal obstacles (Edin 1997; Zucchino 1997; Lens 1997-1998). As Ange-Marie Hancock argues then, Welfare Queen is the “ultimate oxymoron” (2000: 7). This evidence disproving the purported Welfare Queen epidemic, however, has been overlooked by the media, politicians, and the public, as the story of the Welfare Queen fits much more readily with cultural expectations and beliefs about low income minority mothers

Don't allow people to fool you with saying this applies only to the US and specifically about single mums. It's far broader, and when I get a chance I'll post up some more information with more specific circumstances just to shut the flapping idiots that can't think of a sentence beyond MY BOOTSTRAPS!!!!

numonex writes...

Sounds like too much hard work to get DSP.

The reason is to weed out those rorting the system. If it was as easy as approaching the counter and asking to be put on it, don't you think half the country would be queued up?

The government wants to make it harder so that you can not escape the monotony of working life and paying taxes.

Maybe they are listening to the tax payers who are fed up of people taking a free ride when they don't really deserve it.

Personally I don't find my career monotonous. I love going to work and interacting with my staff whilst performing my duties and leading the Team. I earn good money and I can tell you it's not monotonous when I am out spending up big, going out for nice meals and travelling etc. I would take it any day over waking up and facing a day spent on the couch with no money in the bank, being cynical and twisted like you, my existence spent finding ways to avoid work whilst waiting for the next dole payment to hit.

To those of you posting reasoned, logical arguments, debunking the "welfare bludger" zeitgeist that seems to prevail in certain parts of Australian society, good on you. To the rest, and there does some to be a lot of you, perhaps talk back radio may suit your "needs" better.

its bloody easy to get on the dsp...my mate didnt want to work anymore so he told his doctor that he was scared to go outside, doctor filled in the centrelink paperwork and they sent him to a job search capacity assessment, after ½ hr the key question that came out of it was 'do you think you can work in the next 2yrs' his answer being no. a month later he now gets over $800 a fortnight instead of 300...

The funny thing bein he is still broke 2 days after he gets paid (and he doesn't pay rent) he just spends it all on grog and green...

Ah Australia, the lucky country.

wolf1949 writes...

we all know someone bludging on a fake invalid pension

Do we?

Some drive big 4WD's go on overseas holidays and around Australia, Go fishing in boats they own whilst we are at work and then they laugh at us

Do they?

The Government needs to do more random checks & when something suspicious turns up follow it through with a proper investigation.

There are regular medical and entitlement reviews and all 'dob-ins' are followed-up.

fidelia writes...

Do we?

Yes

Do they?

yes

There are regular medical and entitlement reviews and all 'dob-ins' are followed-up.

No there isn't and no they are not.

But it seems like a nice little world you live in.

What i wonder most on all of this is why are they targeting DSP recipients and trying to get them to work when there are so many able bodied people out there on the dole
To my sense of reasoning wouldnt it be better to get them into work first then look at things like DSP

I can pretty much guarantee that there are a lot more of them than DSP recipients

We need a system like England where when you are on welfare you get your accomodation and essential services paid for like electricity
Give food vouchers so they can eat but stop giving them the cash to spend on drugs alcohol and smokes
This would weed out the true genuine cases from the bludgers and fakers
This is what we need to stop funding Fund essential services only

As for aspergers a lot do not know much about it if you believe it is a fake disease
My son has aspergers syndrome diagnosed at 14 He is now 17 and i can tell you life is not easy He is classed as mild aspergers due to a extremely strict upbringing

Without constant supervision and guidance he could not survive by himself in the "real" world ASD conditions vary greatly from person to person so using a blanket cover is not practical
We force him to do as much as possible for himself

This is in my opinion only

dropbears wife

XaDvAnT writes...

I receive about $430 a week on blind pension including rent assistance & education supplement. 70% of that goes on rent, so I wouldn't describe my living conditions as luxurious. Very true you are not able to live it up on the Blind Pension.

I have been legally blind since 18 and managed to keep working until last year when I was 23. Despite being able to claim DSP while working, I didn't because I didn't need the money. I've been legally blind since birth & I had to have the lens taken out of my eye because of cataracts which is very rare for young people.

When I finally did, it wasn't so easy. Your GP cannot diagnose you as disabled, they just refer you to a specialist. It's difficult enough getting a DSP form signed with a diagnosis, I can't imagine what you'd have to do if you were faking it Very true I had to go to several specialists to prove that I was legally blind & also prove that my sight wouldn't improve,

Regardless of what the unemployment rate is in this country, for those with a disability the rate is about 70-80%. Those who do have work are underemployed, meaning they can't get enough work. Few employers are willing to look past the disadvantages, such as your mobility and the inconvenience of having to modify the workplace. You are so right in terms of employment before I got chronically ill & I was looking for work employers did not want to know me because of my disability so how dose Abbot expect those who have a disability to have a job.

The little amount one can earn with a disability is not that much more than what the pension pays, so there isn't a lot of incentive to put the time and effort into working. Very true & I know of several organizations who are meant to represent disabled people & they run sheltered workshops where disabled people are paid $3.00 a hour, Where are the unions to protect these people who are being exploited day in day out nowhere because these organizations are playing the sympathy card so that people will donate to their cause. Why should people with disabilities be made to work when they are going to get a lower pay packet than their able bodied counterparts – STUFF THAT that's cheap labor as far as I'm concerned.

In the meantime, I work 7 days a week from my home based workshop cleaning spyware off computers so that I can afford Home Brand tuna... I do the odd computer job & try to run 2 home based businesses & do voluntary work.

fidelia writes...

There are regular medical and entitlement reviews and all 'dob-ins' are followed-up.

They definitely are not regular. The medical reviews are lucky to be every to be every 10 years.

PooshWaltzer writes...

Please forgive my ignorance but, lest I've grossly misunderstood your statement, how on earth are you managing to READ these comments and reply post if you're unable to SEE, albeit legally? Legally blind is someone who has less than 10% vision & with today's technology it's easy for text to be enlarged.

XaDvAnT writes...

My guide dog reads it to me. My cat reads it to me (meow)

XaDvAnT writes...

I actually use a screen reader called JAWS... and if I had a dollar for every time I head "colon right parenthesis" I wouldn't need to be on the pension :) I just use my PC & enlarge everything & I use a special font which I bought & I know how to touch type so I don't have to worry about looking at the screen so much.

fidelia writes...

Do we?

I would not have said it if it wasn't 100% fact.

["Do they?

ditto

"]
There are regular medical and entitlement reviews and all 'dob-ins' are followed-up.

The system is there for the genuine cases not the fakes and lazy bludgers. The checking is not effective enough at this time. The fakes are good actors and just play very ill in front of the Doctor with headaches and stuff like that that are hard to proof as tru or not.

What makes me mad is that some unskilled workers get less money per fortnight – I refer to Net pay – than these fakes.

The genuine ones were often hard workers that just had bad luck with health or an accident and they deserve to be looked after.

Another reason why so many people are on disability support is that many of them were once on workcover/workcare (like i once was,myself) then Jeff Kennett & Rob Hulls changed the laws,taking away our rights to sue, and changing the definition of impairments based on the 5thAMA Guides to Impairment,which according to the AMA was not supposed to be used to define a persons impairment at all.

The changes enabled the workcover insurers, who of course use shonky so called independent medical specialists to refute our claims (those specialists get the work because they side with the insurers and the government).

And as we had no rights to challenge the insurers, most of us from the Jeff Kennett era eventually got kicked off onto the disability pension.

As for myself, i suffered a disc prolapse in my neck and lower back due to repeatedly lifting heaters weighing 95 kilos +,alone without any assistance from anyone else or machinery, as thats the way management wanted it.

There was no union at this company, union membership was strongly discouraged.

The insurers also used dodgy workplace assessors to see what sort of work they thought you could do,based on your pass work history & education.

I lost my workcover payments,because an assessor thought i could be a supervisor of an engineering/tool making company, they made up a pack of lies that my 6 months of apprenticeship training back in 1974 was all the skills i needed.

This was also approved by the insurers medical panel who simply accepted the assessors words as gospel,( who wouldn't have a clue what skills are required in the industrial world)

Yes i know, it does not make sense to pass the buck from the workcover insurers onto the public purse

The governments of the day are forever changing laws to suite their own self serving interests,as many politicians have their fingers in the pies of business,s (shares,investments ect)

Once you have made a workcover claim, you are in the black book as far as employers are concerned,and its nearly impossible to get a job.

As for myself, i finally managed to get off the system, by working for myself, and self pacing what i do, i dont get much more than the pension,but i am slowly working my way up to increased hours,by being very selective in the work i get.

Cheers
Colin

Dropbear writes...

We need a system like England where when you are on welfare you get your accomodation and essential services paid for like electricity

Give food vouchers so they can eat but stop giving them the cash to spend on drugs alcohol and smokes

This would weed out the true genuine cases from the bludgers and fakers

This is what we need to stop funding Fund essential services only

Excellent idea – that would make some think twice of staying on the system.

All the best to your son – we hope things improve for you!

Colinc1 writes...

As for myself, i finally managed to get off the system, by working for myself, and self pacing what i do, i dont get much more than the pension,but i am slowly working my way up to increased hours,by being very selective in the work i get.

Good on you Colin – and most people in this thread wish there were more people like you – giving it a go again. Best of luck for the future.

Colinc1 writes...

use shonky so called independent medical specialists to refute our claims (those specialists get the work because they side with the insurers and the government)

That is so true. The hell you are put through and the outright lies and deceit from these unmentionable b***ds is beyond words.

Once you have made a workcover claim, you are in the black book as far as employers are concerned,and its nearly impossible to get a job

And we won't talk about the rehabilitation that is supposed to be done under workcover/comcare either. It doesn't exist. Any rehab that is done, is often done at own expense. Oh and as for sueing the offending party – no chance, under Comcare laws, you can't sue the department anyway. Being honest after the sheer hell, surveillance (yes it does happen), pain, 6am flights down to Brisbane for their specialist appointments, you own income being slashed to 75%, your expenses going through the roof due to medication, equipment <-- which they drag their heels in paying, one simply doesn't have the emotional strength to go to court anyway. Besides its a Kangaroo court and 9/10 times the plaintiff doesn't win.

The best way to deal with work injuries is as Colin is doing, building up and through your own pain levels, taking the time to heal both physically and often emotionally as well and then moving back into the workforce.

Francix writes...

33 per cent of people on DSP have musculo-skeletal disabilities (loss of mobility & limbs);

Most of these are male and in their late 50's and early 60's, having previously done manual work (roadies, builders laborours, that sort of thing), and whose bodies are not in any condition to do that sort of work any more. They are basically unemployable due to their ages and skill sets. The unwritten policy has been to park them on the DSP until they reach age pension qualifying age.

You could probably retrain some of them for some kinds of work, with a lot of effort and at best a modest success rate. For better or worse, that's the situation. It doesn't make a lot of sense to put these people on whatever Newstart is called these days (is it still called that?) and make them apply for jobs that everyone knows they're not competitive for.

25 per cent have psychological & psychiatric conditions

Which shouldn't be underestimated – and these may very well be such as to make them unemployable – schzophrenia, phobias, serious anxiety disorders, severe depressions, can all make someone unemployable.

11 per cent have intellectual & learning disabilities

Which again makes them basically unemployable, other than in certain specialised businesses (which used to be called sheltered workshops, but I think that's no longer considered a polite term for them)

wolf1949 writes...

The fakes are good actors and just play very ill in front of the Doctor with headaches and stuff like that that are hard to proof as tru or not. If you go to the doctor & keep on complaining of headaches they will not continue to drug you up they will send for either a CT Scan or MRI & even a EEG, I know this because I had to go to hospital outpatients appointments for over 4 years while they tried to find out what was wrong with me. At first they thought I had Lupus as I have the anti-body in my blood which is related to the condition.

Then they found I had a enlarged Liver which was linked to a epilepsy medication I was taking so I had to be taken off that & put on another one, All this in 4 years of countless test before I was finally diagnosed with FMS (Fibroymyalgia Syndrome) which is a bit like CFS but it's a condition with no cure & there are complications you can have with this condition. I'm on a blind pension & I had to see several specialist before my application was granted I'm classified as legally blind which is someone who has less than 10% vision.

I was born with a very rare form of cataracts & they had to remove the lens in my eye & the surrounding tissue & that's the only thing they could do.

numonex writes...

Aspergers is similar to other fake illnesses and other fake disabilities. People just say I have Aspergers Syndrome. They get the DSP no questions asked

Aspergers is a form of autism – a lot of people with it progress to more serious disorders – nobody gets DSP 'no questions asked' – you need to see the Centrelink doctor and so on.

Steven C writes...

I work in a superannuation call centre, the amount of people who are on disability pensions and want to claim their super under tpd/financial hardship grounds makes up at least 10% of my calls. I guarantee you a large amount of those people are not truly deserving of these pensions.

Well it's their money isn't it? Who are you to say whether they can have their money or not.

heisdeadjim writes...

the high number of DSPs. By shifting people on to them, the Government can artificially lower the number of people participating, thus claiming an "increase" in the employment rate.

It's not so much that as the utter pointlessness of a 62 year old ex-roadie with a bad back and marginal literacy who left school at Year 10 and who can barely move himself around any more being required to look for work.

heisdeadjim writes...

She's doing some volunteer work so she's happy with that.

Cool – then the Widow's Pension is appropriate. If she wanted to get a bit of paid work, nothing stopping her doing that too if she wants to. At her age it's not unreasonable for her to be able to make some choices rather than the pointless paperwork of the job diary as others pointed out.

wolf1949 writes...

Excellent idea – that would make some think twice of staying on the system.

All the best to your son – we hope things improve for you! Might sound good but what if someone wants to go out & have a coffee or something a cafe wouldn't take vouchers & that would be a form of social exclusion.

Sashyre writes...

DSP used to be for life, so there are a number on this benefit whose original disability has changed (for the better) and can work, or those who are on DSP and can work part time hours who are now going to be forced either off the Pension or forced to work. Why not? As long as a person's brain can function and they are not a blob of jelly they can hold down a job.

It's been a long time coming and I for one embrace it. Make a few more bludgers out there get off their lazy butts and contribute to the tax pool.

From your perspective the problem is the people that are rorting the system. Fair enough.

From my perspective the problem is being unable to find an employer anywhere that doesn't immediately throw my CV into the "too hard" basket because I'm in a wheelchair.

I've got my first paid work in a bit over four years time starting today. You know what I'm doing? I'm putting the two halves of squeeze bottle twist tops together. Two days a week for four hours a day. At this point I'm on two weeks trial. The trial is simply to make sure I still want to be doing the job after two weeks and am not completely bored to death, mandated by the employer.

I've got over 25 years of experience working with computers and a degree in Computer Sciences. I've been paid to build hardware, program, make web sites, and worked for almost 10 of those years as a graphic designer. Even though I've not actually been paid to do it I've kept all my skills current. I've been trying to get off the DSP and go back to work for almost six months now and a job putting twist tops together for under $18 an hour is the best I can find.

Hardly an incentive to actually look for work but I took it as I need to get out of the house or lose my mind.

casper1975 writes...

Might sound good but what if someone wants to go out & have a coffee or something a cafe wouldn't take vouchers & that would be a form of social exclusion.

dont worry, right whingers, the Labor government is onto it.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/income-control-a-measure-too-far/story-e6frg6zo-1225838390713

next thing after that will be the old morals test where youd have to go to the police station to prove that you were a moral and upright citizen before getting Susso. I guess judgemental types are good at sussing people out at a glance.

anyone for poor houses? how about extending work for the (half) dole to cleaning and massages service for taxpayers, or non tax paying beneficiaries of the economic and political status quo.

and yes, i am being sarcastic. perhaps a thread on corporate welfare, warmongers and the sustainability of modern life would provide some reticence from some.

Barry Dawson writes...

Case 2: Full Disability Pension + Dept. of Housing Accommodation. Affliction: Methadone Addict
Ah yes, nothing like a drug problem to disassociate one from their ability to work. Also has the luxury of a new Dept. of Housing provided townhouse in a waterfront public housing estate. I overheard this maggot whinging that when the estate was completed and opened up for the tenants to move in, an old crippled lady got a townhouse with a nice water view. He claimed that it was rightfully his and how dare the Dept. relegate him to anything less. Makes a good second income renting out the spare room of his government provided accommodation. Spends most days getting blind with Case #1.

So do the right thing and report him. As far as I'm aware it's illegal to rent out a room in a Dept. of Housing residence. Centrelink even has a tips line where you can report people anonymously.

You are quoting significantly more words than you have written.
Consider whether you need to quote at all — unless you are quoting to respond to a specific statement, it's usually easier to just mention who you're responding to.
Otherwise, trim the quoted passages down as much as you can.

From my perspective the problem is being unable to find an employer anywhere that doesn't immediately throw my CV into the "too hard" basket because I'm in a wheelchair. I know what exactly what you mean I have had many years experience in the media & before I got struck down with chronic illness I applied for over 100 jobs, Employers seem to be interested at first but when I told them I was legally blind I was basically told to get stuffed.

Hardly an incentive to actually look for work but I took it as I need to get out of the house or lose my mind. Why should the disabled be made to go out & work when the government & taxpayers know that these people will be un-employable & they will be paid pea nuts compared to able bodied people.

Podbox writes...

Laziness.

Did you need help with anything else?

That kind of attitude is a large part of the problem with genuine disabled people finding work. My last 4 years of non employment have nothing to do with laziness. They have to do with the doctors at the pain management clinic at the local hospital working out my pain medications to the point where I'm not a zombie and I'm not in extreme pain 24/7.

Sashyre writes...

I am not surprised given Centrelink do not offer work advice. Centrelink only deal with payments. Obviously you have no idea how Centrelink works

Centrelink were really helpful when I was on DSP about 8 years ago – my condition had improved to the point where I was ready to start trying to get some work, but I needed some help with that – they referred me to one of the organisations they fund to do that sort of stuff – the DSP system is structured to incentivise people who have disabilities or long term illnesses to get work – for example, there's a one-off payment when you get a job (which I spent on some work-suitable clothes), and if it doesn't work out you can go straight back onto the pension without jumping through all the hoops – all of which is geared to make the decision to go back to work a relatively easy one (ie. "what if I can't manage it? I think I can, but won't know until I try...").

Herbie writes...

From your perspective the problem is the people that are rorting the system.

Absolutely correct. I have no problem at all with those who are in genuine need claiming the payment.

I feel the same way about people drawing unemployment benefits who are using it as an alternative lifestyle, when really it is a temporary payment to assist you while you look for work.

It is admirable that you are in a wheel chair and determined to work, whilst other people will go to the most incredible lengths to avoid work. We have had people here admit they are rorting the system and have no intention of working.

Surely in your situation it must make you ropeable that there are jobs there for able bodied people who deliberately throw them whilst you are desperate for a job.

Steven C writes...

I guarantee you a large amount of those people are not truly deserving

So, you feel qualified to overrule their treating medical practitioners based on a short phone conversation about what paperwork they need? OK.

So some people are bludging on welfare: Disabled Support Pension or the much lower payment Newstart Allowance. The political parties are making a big deal about this. So kick them all off onto the streets and become homeless. You heartless bureaucrats.
Centrelink is only good at giving people payments. The job services is outsourced to private companies. The job services fail miserably in helping long term unemployed people find work. The employers discriminate against the long-term unemployed and the disabled and rarely employ difficult cases.

I was on the DSP. Had depression so severe that I thought about killing myself every day, but I had so little motivation I could not do it. I had severe social phobia as well, I could not talk, I could not go out. I immersed myself in reading Sci-Fi as an escape from reality. I even had trouble posting on the Internet.

My wife spoke to my Psychiatrist and I was changed medication once again.

All of a sudden I switched back on. Went back and finished a TAFE diploma and got a full time job.

Then within a year the depression re-occurred. I would sit at my desk at work unable to do anything (no motivation). I was diagnosed as being Bi-polar this time and given new medication but it was too late and I lost my job.

I did not want to go back on the DSP because it is so demeaning. However I did so because with the depression the chances of being able to concentrate on work are very low.

Now I am trying to do UNI. With UNI if the depression strikes I only fail at subjects. At work if the depression strikes I can lose my job.

Sashyre writes...

Surely in your situation it must make you ropeable that there are jobs there for able bodied people who deliberately throw them whilst you are desperate for a job.

Life's too short to spend it pissed off at other people. Especially as I know no one actually passing up jobs specifically to stay on New Start, DPS, or any other pension.

The employers pay disabled workers less than the average worker. The wages are calculated on some ridiculous Work Capacity Assessment based on productivity.

It is not much of an incentive for disabled workers to be moved into the workforce into low paid jobs which give them below the minimumn award rate. The unions do not do anything about it. The organisations/charities the disabled people work for no one finds out what really happens.

Disabled people are being used as cheap slave labour and being paid less than their disability pensions. Disabled people are human beings too. They deserve same rights as abled bodied people.

numonex writes...

The employers pay disabled workers less than the average worker. The wages are calculated on some ridiculous Work Capacity Assessment based on productivity.

It is not much of an incentive for disabled workers to be moved into the workforce into low paid jobs which give them below the minimumn award rate. The unions do not do anything about it. The organisations/charities the disabled people work for no one finds out what really happens.

Disabled people are being used as cheap slave labour and being paid less than their disability pensions. Disabled people are human beings too. They deserve same rights as abled bodied people. You have hit the nail right on the head I know only to well what these disabled groups are like they make out to the public that they are trying to help disabled people live in the community but really it's a total lie, I was involved in one such organization & they only want disabled people to socialize with people who also have the same disability as yourself. Plus they don't give a stuff about finding you real employment which has a decent pay packet they will put you in one of their workshops where you get paid less than $5.00 a hour.

I decided never to associate with this organization because I actually saw what they were trying to do to me, I still think about all those other people who are being brain washed & exploited by these organizations people with disabilities should not be used as porns to please tax payers & government.

Sashyre writes...

There are empathetic employers out there that allow for people with work restrictions from simply being a parent/care giver to mental health issues where you need to either go home early or take the day off.

As a manager / employer I'm fine with this – but there's always a bit of a trade off – the employee needs to be a net asset to the organisation (at least over the long term). That means someone with the right skill set that needs particular modifications, or that is going through short term personal issues, I'm really happy to make allowances for. But I'm not going to hire someone whose disability unfortunately makes them the wrong person for the job.

wolf1949 writes...

I would not have said it if it wasn't 100% fact.

So you claim to know 100% of the national population and who they are associated with?
I thought you nutty people believed the government was keeping tabs on all of that!

casper1975 writes...

people with disabilities should not be used as porns to please tax payers

I think you mean pawns. I wouldn't mind being used for porn to please tax payers, even if it was only for $5 per hour!

XaDvAnT writes...

I think you mean pawns. I wouldn't mind being used for porn to please tax payers, even if it was only for $5 per hour! Opps typo.

casper1975 writes...

Opps typo.

Is it really, or is this the exploitation you were referring to? ;)

XaDvAnT writes...

or is this the exploitation you were referring to? ;) Yes I was referring to the exploitation of the disabled.

XaDvAnT writes...

So you claim to know 100% of the national population and who they are associated with?

I thought you nutty people believed the government was keeping tabs on all of that!

casper1975 writes...

Where in my statements have I said I know 100% of the population using up the social welfare system? I just said that I ( like many other Australians ) know people who are rorting the system.

I have never ever said anything bad about the genuine cases, so please read my comments again!

I agree with restricting benefits to those entitled to them.

I do know several people however that are on disability pensions because at their age (50's) and living in remote areas, they're never going to get a job.

Why not take the hassle of looking for a job away from them, put them on DP until they hit pension age and then it's a straight transfer.

casper1975 writes...

those other people who are being brain washed & exploited by these organizations people with disabilities should not be used as pawns to please tax payers & government.

These organisations are just paper shafflers, or middle men to take the Government contracts

while the dsp has been singled out, believe the payment they actually refer to is the sickness allowance which suits a different criteria to be actually put on it, though you can migrate from it to the dsp though it requires full medical case history as well as other items to actually be put on it, to qualify for the dsp you see the commonwealth doctor, a employee alone can not put you on the dsp... if you can walk off the street and get it I'd be surprised, if this does happen then you would be breaking the law, also the the person who granted it without the commonwealth docs approval will also be breaking the law...

personally i'd love to working though when you get told by an employer you're an insurance risk and you will not employable. what are you to do, also having a injury limits what I can and can't do..

as for the ritilin generation of the 1990's a lot of kids were misdiagnised for add adhd because of severe learning disabilities that being said, it was quicker to medicate the kids in question than it was to nip it in the butt.. thus lead mass doping of kids...

I've seen what happens to people who work in sheltered workshops what you loose in dsp you end up getting back in taxable income, you may aswell stay home than pull a wage..

redlineghost writes...

equires full medical case history as well as other items to actually be put on it, to qualify for the dsp you see the commonwealth doctor, a employee alone can not put you on the dsp...

Good post, but this part is false.

corks here is a little known fact about me i've been on the DSP since i left high school, as I said before this may have changed since i was put on the dsp though what i'm talking about was a stated requirement i went through to be put on it..

also note while tony abbot stated the dsp some how i think he nmeant sickness benefit which is a different payment all together...

each state may have different setups on how you get on the DSP though I'm still sure you require the commonwealth appointed doctor to put you on it...

while your health care cards may be issued by the state you payments are granted federally...

redlineghost writes...

personally i'd love to working though when you get told by an employer you're an insurance risk and you will not employable. what are you to do, also having a injury limits what I can and can't do..

I've gotten that line before as well and I'm still not sure it's not 100% BS even though it was my father in law that handed me the line. Considering the other help he's provided throughout the time I've been unemployed it could be a legitimate concern but with what the company is worth I'd have to say any extra money for insurance concerns wouldn't even be a blip on their bottom line.

I've seen what happens to people who work in sheltered workshops what you loose in dsp you end up getting back in taxable income, you may aswell stay home than pull a wage..

I'm still under the threshold but that's only because I'm working for a legitimate independent government department that's actually out to help people. Of course even then it's not a liveable wage in and of itself, although if it were full days, 5 days a week it'd be all right. There's way too many dodgy schemes out there looking to exploit or rip of disabled workers though. Still, many people consider them just to get out of the house.

casper1975 writes...

Plus they don't give a stuff about finding you real employment which has a decent pay packet they will put you in one of their workshops where you get paid less than $5.00 a hour.

My Aunty used to make headsets for Qantas & got paid a pittance above her pension:(

The rorts can be definitely stacked in favour of a business.

I do of at least one employer keeping those with disabilities on their books in order to garner funding off them without giving them appropriate hours (i.e. > 0). Still wondering if I should whistleblow, though.

Cavaliere Nero writes...

I do of at least one employer keeping those with disabilities on their books in order to garner funding off them without giving them appropriate hours (i.e. > 0). Still wondering if I should whistleblow, though.

Please do. Chances are he's reporting them as having worked as well as giving them zero hours. That means they're getting screwed twice as they can only "work" a certain number of hours and still receive the DSP.

gorgon writes...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/income-control-a-measure-too-far/story-e6frg6zo-1225838390713

silly government

Cavaliere Nero writes...

I do of at least one employer keeping those with disabilities on their books in order to garner funding off them without giving them appropriate hours (i.e. > 0). Still wondering if I should whistleblow, though.

Un-Australian to dob in a mate. Snitches get snitches. What if he finds out it was you?

numonex writes...

Un-Australian to dob in a mate. Snitches get snitches. What if he finds out it was you?

Biggest load of crap I've ever read on Whirlpool. I know it's a common Aussie "value" but you can't have it both ways. If you know a cheater, whether it be an individual or business, then letting the government know about it is one of the best ways to get rid of the rorters.

Easy Solution: Follow the Germans....ie, pay companies to hire unemployed people via 6-12 month wage subsidies...

So if a company hires an unemployed person, the government will subsidize the worker's salary to the tune of upto $300/week for full-time work. (obviously less for part-time work)

The government keeps doing this for 6-12 months when the worker is well and truly good at their job, and then stops subsidizing their salary....

milieux writes...

I do know several people however that are on disability pensions because at their age (50's) and living in remote areas, they're never going to get a job. On that aspect they also won't get a job because all the work offered is manual labour work which disabled people can't do.

and yes, i am being sarcastic. perhaps a thread on corporate welfare, warmongers and the sustainability of modern life would provide some reticence from some.

Yeah, good idea. Start one and I will be in. Perhaps we need something along the lines of the Teabaggers party in the USA, where at least some of their wrath is directed at their government for bailing out banks, the shift of corporate greed, from the private balance sheet to the public one.

redlineghost writes...

corks here is a little known fact about me i've been on the DSP since i left high school, as I said before this may have changed since i was put on the dsp though what i'm talking about was a stated requirement i went through to be put on it..

I wasn't having a go at you mate, your posts are concise and informative.

The requirements may have been different when you went on DSP but the conditions have definitely changed, for the worse now.

All you need to do is get a doctor to fill out the dissability form, go to an appointment with a job capacity assessor, convince them you can't work for 2 years or more and bang, you get double the pay packet with virtually no responsibilities.

so much for knowing the in and outs of a ducks arse, they have gone way back by the sounds of it since i was put on it then..

though reading everyone's description its sounding more like they are talking about the sickness benefits which may only require your gp to sign off on it, is if has happen to to the DSP then there will be trouble..

tri400 writes...

Easy Solution: Follow the Germans....ie, pay companies to hire unemployed people via 6-12 month wage subsidies...

We used to have this in the CES days. It was called Jobstart, people who were eligible (long term unemployed – 6 months or more – or disabled, sole parents/women returning to the workforce and several other equity groups) were place in a job and the government subsidised a portion of their wage, depending on the job, and the person being placed.

The idea was they were being trained in something, not just being used as slave labour, and the job was meant to be on-going provided everything worked out. It was very useful.

snowant writes...

We used to have this in the CES days. It was called Jobstart, people who were eligible (long term unemployed – 6 months or more – or disabled, sole parents/women returning to the workforce and several other equity groups) were place in a job and the government subsidised a portion of their wage, depending on the job, and the person being placed.

The idea was they were being trained in something, not just being used as slave labour, and the job was meant to be on-going provided everything worked out. It was very useful.

Yeah, lots of immigrants to great advantage of this scheme at the time to get a start in Australia. There was a downside, in that it was standard practice for employers to get some cheap labour and ditch them as soon as the time period for that person had run it's course, and basically kept doing this like a merry-go-round with new employees all the time. This doesn't really matter though, the benefits of the scheme far and away outweighed this downside.

Also I don't know why this sort of thing doesn't exist here. Wish I was in charge of social security in Aus, it would be run very differently!

tri400 writes...

Easy Solution: Follow the Germans....

I thought that sentence was going to end differently. A lot differently!

Just had a thought, if I have split personality disorder I could claim 2 or more pensions!

snowant writes...

We used to have this in the CES days when programs like Jobstart was actually focused on bridging the employment gap by finding clients relevant, sustainable and viable work whereas the current Newstart "initiative" so-titled Mutual Obligations adopts a haphazard "shoot first; ask questions later" approach that leaves much to be desired for.

A mate of mine with postgraduate finance and accounting qualifications was allocated an undertaker position by his ever diligent Job Network Provider. :/ He subsequently left welfare behind and has since become self employed (but not before giving the System a piece of his mind!).

PooshWaltzer writes...

A mate of mine with postgraduate finance and accounting qualifications was allocated an undertaker position by his ever diligent Job Network Provider.

This is what I call job matching at its best.

Did they even try to find him work in the field he studied?

thundergod writes...

Did they even try to find him work in the field he studied?

LOL – are you kidding!? Centrelink is adamant about you, the client, accepting whatever the JNP prescribes. Centrelink compensates the JNP based on a declining revenue business model.

Essentially, AFAIK, the JNP will treat you concessionally in the 1st 6mths (3mths idle; 3mths training)before Centrelink starts deducting their remuneration to get the ball rolling and clear the backlogs. The JNP will therefore match client with ANY job out there ASAP to clear you off their list and get a new 6mth starter with the highest rate of return.

JNP doesn't give a toss whether you're trained as a baker doing telesales or a mechanic assigned data entry duties. Once your 6mth probation expires, you start eating into the JNP's bottom line – time to get you off their lawn.

Centrelink has an endless list of work-for-dole customers on Newstart. No supply issue there – always fresh meat available.

Now the job network is outsourced to private providers, they have to get bums on seats to survive financially. so they'll do anything to keep people churning through the system. Easy placements are way more preferable, anyone too hard is binned, there's not enough money in it.

Or they churn them through training courses and other meaningless activities, because every one gets them some money from the government.

You can't pay people to care. We cared.

snowant writes...

Now the job network is outsourced to private providers, they have to get bums on seats to survive financially. so they'll do anything to keep people churning through the system. Easy placements are way more preferable, anyone too hard is binned, there's not enough money in it.

Or they churn them through training courses and other meaningless activities, because every one gets them some money from the government.

So why was the CES privatised – I think we all know who we can thank for that – the power walker.

Once these bad decisions are in – no Govrnment in power is keen to reverse the damage.

In my 43rd working year and only had to use CES in 1994 for a few month. They always treated me OK and when I went for an interview to a slave job, where they expected me to do the job of a design engineer for paper boy wages, they never forced me to take it.

A few month after submitting many applications I got a good paying job that interested me and still currently hold.

Don't know how they treat you now but I hate the fact they privatised that service. It should be run by the Government as it used to be IMHO.

I am a skeptic of Aspergers Syndrome, I have read stuff on it. Too many people claim they have it. But do they really have it? Aspergers is used as a last resort defence to justify crimes. So anyone could just go ahead and do what they want and say "oh no it was not me, it was Aspergers". People use it as a means of just getting out of work and easy way to get the pension no worries. Wikipedia diagnosis and thats it. You get disability benefits. Really upsets me that people get disabled pension fraudulently. Tax payers shed blood sweat and tears. Just for fraudsters to rip us off and do nothing and laugh in our faces.

I though I have this disorder but nah I am just a jerk who likes stirring up shit for kicks. I accept responsibility for my actions. I would not just say well not me it was Aspergers made me do it ZOMG lulz.

The diagnosis criteria fro Aspergers Syndrome is so vague and well anyone could actually have this disorder. Introduced in 1994 or something. Is it a form of autism or is it an illness or a personality type. If it is a personality type than it is no illness.

I would like an actual study conducted by the government to see if Aspergers Syndrome is indeed autism or illness or just a personality type. If it is the latter than it is a fake illness.

numonex I get the feeling you get rip roaring drunk and post dribble on Whirlpool all the time.

Having said that, someone with Aspergers is simply a highly functioning autistic person. It's part of the autism spectrum. Once people realise this you won't see so many people co-opted the syndrome as a way to stand out or gain benefits not duly theirs.

A mate of mine with postgraduate finance and accounting qualifications was allocated an undertaker position by his ever diligent Job Network Provider. :/ He subsequently left welfare behind and has since become self employed (but not before giving the System a piece of his mind!).

Had a similar experience. Not on the dole, but looking for a job, registered with JNP. Hopeless. Got sent to an interview for a telemarketer job which would have lasted a month, zero prospects after that. The JNP would have been rewarded had I taken that. Your on your own. And where does all our tax payer money go? Its all part of this very curious job training, job network, work for the dole, volunteer, disability pension etc "industry".

My mother has a back injury that prevents her from doing repetitive or heavy lifting or sitting for long periods of time. but is not eligible for a disability pension her age also impacts on her ability to gain employment.

She has office skills (with certificates) but lacks a few minor qualifications that could secure her an office job (she can sit for periods as long as she can get up and move about a little)

For instance if she did a MYOB or MS office course or just updated her training a little her job prospects would increase as when she has been knocked back, these are the reasons that have been given.

The job networks however are not spending any money on her to help her in this field we are talking a few hundred dollars at most for a few weeks at TAFE instead they have her come in and read newspapers a few times a week and try and palm her off into roles she expressly cant do and may result in worsening her injuries, or temp jobs that may only last a month or two just to get her off the books and get them there reward for doing so.

on the other hand (I worked at a government methadone clinic) a junkie on a methadone program can claim disability pension for being an addict and the affect this has on being able to function.

numonex writes...

Tax payers shed blood sweat and tears. Just for fraudsters to rip us off and do nothing and laugh in our faces.

I've read a few of your posts in other threads and you made it perfectly clear you aren't one of those tax payers. I believe at one point you even said you had a severe mental illness but got turned down for the higher paying DSP.

Least the guy wants to work.Unlike me who has spent 6 of the last 7 years on the Centrelink payments: including 5 years on the dole. I was forced to do some low paid job I hated it. But saved up enough money to get by before I was allowed to get the dole again after waiting for 8 weeks and using my savings.

Aucix writes...

I believe at one point you even said you had a severe mental illness but got turned down for the higher paying DSP.

Numonex has also posted that he is a long term dole bludger who plays the system and has no intention of working.

I notice Centrelink has a new section where they are implementing strategies and specialist providers for a percentage of DSP recipients.
The whole deal depends on how long you have been on DSP and the rules and legislation differs for when you first were granted that benefit.
I am a carer for a long term DSP recipient that has various cognitive problems and also muscoskeletal problems.
I have had breaks from the caring and Centrelink payment several times and work part time while caring.
Just depends on how much care this person needs.
Every situation is different.
The payment being a carer can be more than the DSP recipient receives.

PooshWaltzer writes...

JNP doesn't give a toss whether you're trained as a baker doing telesales or a mechanic assigned data entry duties. Once your 6mth probation expires, you start eating into the JNP's bottom line – time to get you off their lawn.

Speaking of telesales, you don't blame people for not wanting to do those particular jobs. I absolutely hate it when so many different places always call either this or that. And unless I am mistaken, telesales is probably one of the few industries that people probably come and go so fast its not funny.

I did years ago happen to land a job in this field, but only calling business numbers, after 3 days, I left (and this was while I was still in training. I just couldn't do it. Not to mention this type of job made my blood pressure increase higher and higher, I think it went to almost 160/90, something like that, and it was getting more higher, so I left it. If I had to stay there for a week, I reckon blood pressure would of possibly even reach to 180/100 or even more. It was just too stressful. Having to worry about this, and being expected to achieve certain targets, forget it. I cannot deal with that stress.

DodoSucka writes...

The payment being a carer can be more than the DSP recipient receives.

as it should be in most cases.

NoCashatAll writes...

Yes i agree with you, also if the DSP smokes they should reduce their pension by 50% as it may help to cure the disability by lowering the ability to purchase ciggys. Just my humble opinion ;)

lol No Cash, then we'd have to same for booze, junk food etc. ;-). I knew this guy years ago, not on DSP ,but dole he would get it then go straight out buy Cd's Clothes and it would be gone in that day.

he has dancing lessons on Monday, goes to the gym every second day and eats pretty well

he is doing all the right things to combat stress. keeping fit, creative outlet and eating well.
+1

Would he be able to work, YES!

never judge a person on the outside until you know the inside
+1 Not all Dsp recipients look disabled.

numonex writes...

Un-Australian to dob in a mate. Snitches get snitches. What if he finds out it was you?

I agree very Un Australian, i had someone i am sure do this to me a few yrs back not 100% sure , . They have my history so it was a stupid thing to do if they did it , but centrelink still need to act on it . I't only causes the person more stress why bother?, but sometimes you meet people, who think well you look fine on the outer, without knowing the fact's and decide it upon themselves to play Centrelink Police officer. You will know because they will say this is a survey lol..unless of course that's normal, then perhaps i wasn't. But i just found it odd after like 5years.

.

I'm surprised at how many people think I'm faking, simply because I am capable of most tasks once I've had some practice at them.

I had a t-shirt made up that says "Just Pretending" and when I walk down the street with a white cane and dark glasses I imagine the looks of people faces.

XaDvAnT writes...

I'm surprised at how many people think I'm faking, simply because I am capable of most tasks once I've had some practice at them

Aspergers? Borderline personality? Schizoid personality? ADD/ADHD? A huge range of other illnesses people can easily fake. See any doctor and get a diagnosis. Just tell them you have and they write you up the

Work Capacity Assessment. Well you tem you are a danger to community and you will be a constant threat in the work place. Should just use your illness to get you out of work.

I am pretty certain a how to guide on how to get a diability pension has been done berfore. "Too lazy to work, get a Disability pension".

There are a majority of people who have real medical conditions but the dodgy minority "fraudsters" need to be caught out.

I love the clueless comments by some that obviously have no idea about disabilities and their effects.

1 DSP I know has Bi-Polar disorder, he looks fine from a distance and appears pretty normal if you have a chat to him.. After 30 mins or so you might think that some of the things he says are a little odd but you deal with it, an hour and you are really thinking the guy may have issues, any longer and you want to find an excuse to get away.
He despises being on the pension because it labels him so he takes any kind of job he can.. We have a laugh because if there is a job that does not require tertiary education then he has had it at one stage, seemingly ALL of them LOL – a job chopping up the road with a jackhammer lasted a morning (he quit as the jackhammer was attacking his brain), when he tried his hand at being a cobbler he lasted a week (fired), cleaning at a nursing home was pretty successful – 2 months; but they had to move him out of the actual home and get him to work in the garden as the residents could not cope with his singing to them (fired even though the home was desperate for workers), milking on a farm ( fired – he upset the cows was the BS he was told).

Things have improved for him because Centrelink used to require a review of his condition every 2 years to see if he could be removed from the system.. it was horrible – every two years he would end up in the psych ward for anywhere from a few weeks to a few months as the stress of the review was just too hard for him to take.
You may think he could have been faking it but if you had been the passenger in his taxi one night when he lost it and stopped the cab in the middle of the freeway and just started taking off his clothes then maybe you would think twice.
Luckily he has been given some sort of exemption now I think – or they may have changed it to 5 years, I am not sure)

Someone mentioned a guy with schizophrenia being able to work earlier in the thread – made me lol as the poster obviously had not spent a lot of time with the DSP, same for those that try and call people with Aspergers, ex substance abusers, CF sufferers etc frauds.. it just goes to show the alarming level of ignorance in the general public.

Itch¥ writes...

Not all Dsp recipients look disabled.

I used to have a label on the back of my car, "Judge the sticker, don't judge me". I look normal in all aspects, just that due to the neuropathic pain, I was unable to walk long distances or over uneven ground.

Anyone that dared say anything, I'd say "Look you are more than welcome to my sticker (dsp parking), but you'll have to take my disability with it" that shut them up

XaDvAnT writes...

I had a t-shirt made up that says "Just Pretending"

Awesome XaDvAnT

Zahira1 writes...

"Look you are more than welcome to my sticker (dsp parking), but you'll have to take my disability with it" that shut them up

They don't want your sticker when you tell them they have to have your pain also !!

XaDvAnT writes...

I had a t-shirt made up that says "Just Pretending" and when I walk down the street with a white cane and dark glasses I imagine the looks of people faces. I'm legally blind & I don't ware dark glasses or use a cane I use a walking stick as that helps my balance due to my epilepsy & FMS, That's something that a lot of people don't understand people may look alright on the outside but inside their body could be making them feel like hell.

Just want to pop my head in here and say I think its repulsive that anyone would automatically assume anyone on the disability support pension is lying or doesn't deserve any form of compensation, just because the effects of the disability are not obvious on the outside.
Some people are petty and spiteful, but what do you do, I suppose its their problem, unless they're being deliberately obstructive or anything.

Zahira1 writes...

I used to have a label on the back of my car, "Judge the sticker, don't judge me". I look normal in all aspects, just that due to the neuropathic pain, I was unable to walk long distances or over uneven ground.

What mental illness do you have? Excuse my ignorance and intolerance.

Centrelink/Government approach should be physical diabilities = Disable Support Pension. A blind person, wheel chaired person is clear cut and obvious.

Mental illness = no disability- all in the head. You do not fool me. Take a glass of water and cement. Tough up.

Junkies and alcoholics can claim disability pensions. Make them all work no excuses.

Some of these measures could be used by Liberal Party when they are in government. Crackdown on welfare cheats. Assume everyone is a welfare cheat and they must prove they are not a welfare cheat.

numonex writes...

The diagnosis criteria fro Aspergers Syndrome is so vague and well anyone could actually have this disorder. Introduced in 1994 or something. Is it a form of autism or is it an illness or a personality type. If it is a personality type than it is no illness.

I would like an actual study conducted by the government to see if Aspergers Syndrome is indeed autism or illness or just a personality type. If it is the latter than it is a fake illness.

It is a form of Autism. There are many many many studies on it. Aspergers is defined as an Autism Spectrum Disorder and an extremely high percentage of Aspergers sufferers fit into the High Functioning Autism segment of Autism sufferers.

Please take some time to at least read the Wikipedia page on Aspergers at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome to get a fairly decent overview of exactly what Aspergers is and how it effects the people living with it.

I'm not an Autistic or Aspergers patient but I've dealt with several in my life and even had a romantic relationship with a lovely young female Aspergers patient when I was 19.

numonex writes...

Mental illness = no disability- all in the head. You do not fool me. Take a glass of water and cement. Tough up.

Thank you for your insight Dr. numonex.

Excuse my ignorance and intolerance.

There are so many like you – do you think that if you ever did get a job you would willingly employ a person with mental disability without discrimination?

numonex writes...

Crackdown on welfare cheats. Assume everyone is a welfare cheat and they must prove they are not a welfare cheat.
We are in an election year so none of this will happen. Sorry to rain on your parade

casper1975 writes...

I'm legally blind & I don't ware dark glasses or use a cane
casper have you & XaDvAnT heard about the Google Nexus One phone

It isn't for sale here yet but rumours are 3 will have it soon yes i am hanging out for it .

There is this thread on how to get it to Australia /forum-replies.cfm?t=1388362

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=Google_Phone

I think the voice to text features on this phone are awesome for visually impaired people .

I saw a visually impaired man with his phone right upto his face about a month ago & thought this phone would be perfect for him unfortunately didn't get a chance to tell him about it.

I hope it helps you guy's

The Apostate writes...

Just want to pop my head in here and say I think its repulsive that anyone would automatically assume anyone on the disability support pension is lying or doesn't deserve any form of compensation +1

Some people are petty and spiteful, but what do you do, I suppose its their problem, unless they're being deliberately obstructive or anything. I totally agree with you on that one & I know this only to well.

casper1975 writes...

I'm legally blind & I don't ware dark glasses or use a cane I use a walking stick as that helps my balance due to my epilepsy & FMS,

FMS, that is Fibromyalgia Syndrome right?

numonex writes...

Centrelink/Government approach should be physical diabilities = Disable Support Pension. A blind person, wheel chaired person is clear cut and obvious. True

Mental illness = no disability- all in the head. You do not fool me. Take a glass of water and cement. Tough up. Mental Illness is a real issue & if you not emotionally well then you certainly wouldn't be able to function in the work force depending on the condition, Example if someone was in a accident & they suffered brain damage & they were 20 years old they may end up having the mental age of a 10 year old these people wouldn't be able to work, You may have some foundation come along & these people may be put in some sheltered workshop where they get paid $3.00 a hour which technically illegal & is slave labour how can anyone justify that kind of treatment.

Junkies and alcoholics can claim disability pensions. Make them all work no excuses. Totally agree with you on that one they chose to drink or shoot up so they should live with their decision as the saying goes "You make your own bed you have to lie in it".

Some of these measures could be used by Liberal Party when they are in government. Crackdown on welfare cheats. Assume everyone is a welfare cheat and they must prove they are not a welfare cheat. Very true.

casper1975 writes...

Example if someone was in a accident & they suffered brain damage
Brain damage or cognitive impairment is very different from Mental illness but either can stop a person from working.

Often mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol and non prescription drugs. So I am not sure that they choose to do drugs.

thundergod writes...

casper1975 writes...FMS, that is Fibromyalgia Syndrome right?casper1975 writes...I'm legally blind & I don't ware dark glasses or use a cane I use a walking stick as that helps my balance due to my epilepsy & FMS,

FMS, that is Fibromyalgia Syndrome right?

PLEASE note this forum is not about genuine people like you it is about people who rort the system. No one would ever suggest that genuine cases don't deserve the help form Government! So don't worry we are happy for the Governnment to provide much needed support to people like you. All the best!

Rotten Ronnie writes...

Google Nexus One

Yes I have played with it but it's rather expensive and still needs a fair bit of development in my opinion.

I just paid $250 for Mobile Speak 4 which will run on Symbion or Windows Mobile. This way I can choose which phone I want (and not have to use those damn touch screens).

thundergod writes...

FMS, that is Fibromyalgia Syndrome right? Yes it is but at first they though I had Lupus because I have the anti-body associated with the condition in my blood, Some people with FMS which is similar to CFS may only have one symptom of the condition & pain may effect a particular part of the body but I have pain over my entire body & I've had complications like stomach ulcers & issues with sleeping so tiredness is a daily thing. I'm usually in bed by 10pm & yet on really bad nights I may only get 1-2 hours sleep & the doctor dose not want to put me on any more medications because I already take 8 different kinds of meds.

wolf1949 writes...

PLEASE note this forum is not about genuine people like you it is about people who rort the system.

I realise this but due to the ignorance of the general public, we all get tarred with the same brush.

We hate the bludgers as much as anyone else :)

tri400 writes...

So if a company hires an unemployed person, the government will subsidize the worker's salary to the tune of upto $300/week for full-time work. (obviously less for part-time work)

This has already been done here in Australia, It was taken away because employers abused the system by hiring heaps of unemployed people but as soon as the subsidy stopped so did their employment.

wolf1949 writes...

PLEASE note this forum is not about genuine people like you it is about people who rort the system. No one would ever suggest that genuine cases don't deserve the help form Government! So don't worry we are happy for the Governnment to provide much needed support to people like you. All the best! Thank you for your kind words but some people are questioning some conditions & whether they should be included on the DSP criteria, Another issue being raised is the employment of disabled people which I've had quite a lot of experience in before I got really ill. I know how the system works as I was a victim of it I started getting experience in my chosen field when I was 16 & I had a diploma by 23 but when employers find out you have a disability they tell you "Thanks but no thanks & piss off".

XaDvAnT writes...

I realise this but due to the ignorance of the general public, we all get tarred with the same brush.

We hate the bludgers as much as anyone else :) Couldn't agree more society thinks that people on DSP are buying illegal drugs, going down to the pub to get smashed & saving that little bit extra each week so they can one day buy a plasma TV & the occasional flutter on the pokies.

casper1975 writes...

when employers find out you have a disability they tell you "Thanks but no thanks & piss off".

That is really bad and I'm sorry you went through that. Some employers have no heart. Just as well there is a system in place to provide some assistance!

wolf1949 writes...

Just as well there is a system in place to provide some assistance!
what system?

numonex writes...

Centrelink/Government approach should be physical diabilities = Disable Support Pension. A blind person, wheel chaired person is clear cut and obvious.

Mental illness = no disability- all in the head. You do not fool me. Take a glass of water and cement. Tough up.

Well it's no doubt easier to identify a physical illness.

But mental illnesses are very real. Sure there are some people who are only depressed and not depressive types as in mentally ill, but this doesn't discount real mentally ill people.

How would you treat schizophrenia – tell people to "toughen up"? If only it were that easy!

And what about other "non-physical" or "non-visible" illnesses that are not clear cut and obvious.

For instance intellectual and learning disabilities – these are very real disabilities. I know lots of people with intellectual and learning disabilities, and people with Down Syndrome, and you just don't tell them to harden up and they're ok, but they really do need support in living or finding a job if they can manage it.

And what about things like neurological disabilities – I guess you could call them "all in the head" and not always noticeable and obvious – but they are also real medical conditions and disabilities (and occur physically in the brain).

It seems by dividing them into Physical & obvious/clear cut = DSP and Mental = no disability/toughen up you have ignored a large number of very real cases and issues.

Miss Purple writes...

How would you treat schizophrenia – tell people to "toughen up"? If only it were that easy!

You make some very valid points. A good post, deserves merit.

Rotten Ronnie writes...

They don't want your sticker when you tell them they have to have your pain also !!

yep, exactly

numonex writes...

What mental illness do you have? Excuse my ignorance and intolerance.

I don't have a mental illness. I have Bilateral Complex Regional Pain Disorder. Think blow torches all over my back, red hot jack hammers driving down the main nerve in both arms. Hips and knees roaring on fire. Feet feel like I'm walking on broken glass. I cannot hold or handle frozen meat, feels like fire on my hand, I can't feel hot water until its too late. This never let up and was continuous 24/7, despite some serious pain medication, pain counselling etc. All thanks to some stupid idiots at C......link back in 2004.

Thankfully, it has now eased some 6 years later, although I still live with pain in my feet and back and can never walk on grass or concrete because of it.

Take a glass of water and cement. Tough up Mate, take my body for a week and then tell me to toughen up. Scientifically it has been shown that the pain levels experienced by people with Complex Regional Pain disorder are the equivelent to those with Cancer. I've been through more crap and rot than you could poke a stick at. Through support and faith I have come through the otherside, not a 100% but on my way there.

Zahira1 writes...

I don't have a mental illness. I have Bilateral Complex Regional Pain Disorder. Think blow torches all over my back...

I already started cringing at this point. Your a hero to live through all that, day in day out!

Thankfully, it has now eased some 6 years later, although I still live with pain in my feet and back and can never walk on grass or concrete because of it.

Some improvement is better than none, congrats on that.

Mate, take my body for a week and then tell me to toughen up.

Your tougher then me as it is (and it's not something I'd wish on many people either).

Through support and faith I have come through the otherside, not a 100% but on my way there.

Hopefully things keep getting better for ya.

Two of my contributing injuries were from careless drivers that got small fines & that have probably being getting on with their lives pain free for the last 15 & 20 years .

Like i have said my injuries are minor compared to illnesses etc. of some people here .

But they still affect my life everyday with no hope of ever getting better just worse as i get older :(

I have full sympathy for them .

I am sure like me they try to get on with their lives in as positive way as they can .

As for people on DSP having plasma or lcd tv's why shouldn't they be able to have them my old CRT died & i went to Cash Converters & bought an old for $100 & it worked for about a month they replaced it for me & next 1 didn't last much longer ( try & buy a non HD tv these days) & didn't the federal government keep this country from recession with the $900 handouts last year to stimulate the economy & telling people to spend it not hoard it .

Someone will diss me about this for sure !

Oh how I'd love to purchase something new and shiny from a retail store :)

I do my food shopping at the second hand store ffs!

How about we stop this thread and start one on Government spending on Defence. Now there's money going straight down the gurgler, 25 billion a year.

Rotten Ronnie writes...

Like i have said my injuries are minor compared to illnesses etc. of some people here .

It ain't no competition!

Whatever it is it can affect you and so long as it's a genuine disability you're entitled to receive a DSP. But let's not turn this into a blog looking for the "worst .." will kind of remind me of old people sitting around dsicussing their multiple ailments ... or reminds me of the Monty Python sketch of the Four Yorkshire Men!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16535338/Four-Yorkshire-Men-Script

As for people on DSP having plasma or lcd tv's

Life as a DSP receiver, especially if it's unlikely you'll work, can get pretty boring if you don't have some amusement. I think people woul d be pretty annoyed if they knew all the money was being blasted on stuff like drugs, gambling etc, or that a DSPer could afford luxury holidays every year and owned a fleet of sportscars themselves and maybe apartments all over the world.

However – personally – I don't think there is anything wrong with a person on disability or the dole spending their money on a few little luxuries – saving up for a TV – looking after a pet – buying a few games – buying some art equipment and indulging in a hobby etc ... it keeps people from going crazy and makes life worth living.

( try & buy a non HD tv these days)

I have a CRT. We told St Vinnies about it and they laughed in our face and said that charities wouldn't take it, not even if it was in perfectly good working order, not even as a donation.

You have to donate things that are a bit higher quality. I bet people who buy from St Vinnies have better TVs and stuff than we do!

numonex writes...

Disability pension recipients now as high as 700,000.

and in conjunction with dole recipients there are over 1.5 million, how many are legitimate and how many are freeloading?

You could hide the unemployed even better by giving them no dole.

It shits me when they start targetting old age pensioners knowing that there could be so much done to clean up disability pensions and the dole...what right to dole bludgers have to all the benefits they receive when the poor age pensioners struggle.

dfiant writes...

what right to dole bludgers have to all the benefits they receive when the poor age pensioners struggle

i am not sure who contributes the most to society. The old or the young unemployed.

Zahira1 writes...

I don't have a mental illness. I have Bilateral Complex Regional Pain Disorder. Think blow torches all over my back, red hot jack hammers driving down the main nerve in both arms.

wow that sounds bad.
have you tried lyrica for the nerve pain??

NoCashatAll writes...

You make some very valid points. A good post, deserves merit. +1

Miss Purple writes...

However – personally – I don't think there is anything wrong with a person on disability or the dole spending their money on a few little luxuries – saving up for a TV – looking after a pet I agree after paying for food & Bills I make it a habit to save some of that money so I can have something done to my house & I have 2 cats who mean everything to me as I consider them to be my best friends plus I live on my own so they are worth every cent.

Maxwellbest writes...

How about we stop this thread and start one on Government spending on Defence. Now there's money going straight down the gurgler, 25 billion a year.

I hate war but Australia needs to be able to defend itself. Start another thread and it will grow quickly!

Zahira1 writes...

I don't have a mental illness. I have Bilateral Complex Regional Pain Disorder. Think blow torches all over my back, red hot jack hammers driving down the main nerve in both arms. Hips and knees roaring on fire. Feet feel like I'm walking on broken glass. I cannot hold or handle frozen meat, feels like fire on my hand, I can't feel hot water until its too late.

So with what you go through, were you given a hard time in getting the disability pension? From reading this, common sense tells me that any person that has to live like this should be on the disability pension without any dramas.

This never let up and was continuous 24/7, despite some serious pain medication, pain counselling etc. All thanks to some stupid idiots at C......link back in 2004.

I am going to presume here that were jerked around?

Miss Purple writes...

It ain't no competition!

Whatever it is it can affect you and so long as it's a genuine disability you're entitled to receive a DSP

Sorry that wasn't my intention .

However – personally – I don't think there is anything wrong with a person on disability or the dole spending their money on a few little luxuries.

Thank$ some common sense some people seem to think that DSP & Dole shouldn't have anything that makes their lives easier .

Without internet & computers we wouldn't be having a discussion & i am surprised no one brought it up as unnecessary luxury for DSP:)

Miss Purple writes...

However – personally – I don't think there is anything wrong with a person on disability or the dole spending their money on a few little luxuries – saving up for a TV – looking after a pet – buying a few games – buying some art equipment and indulging in a hobby etc ... it keeps people from going crazy and makes life worth living.

I too don't see anything wrong with that, depending on their living situation, if they don't have to pay rent, then by all means. As long as they can manage their finances and prioritize and have money leftover to have some luxuries (like not always going to eat out but prepare your own meals instead, don't buy a car if you don't really need it). It is all about prioritizing and making sacrifices. Helping out with family expenses if living with other family members.

But there are those out there who the minute they get the dole payments, just waste it straight away, whether its on drugs, alcohol and so on. And I am willing to bet it is these same people who get the dole and waste their money on these things have the nerve to ask people for more money on the streets.

thundergod writes...

were you given a hard time in getting the disability pension? Surprisingly not that much. But then I had three years worth of ComCare reports, sick leave reports, goodness knows how many specialist reports – including a well known psychiatrist (who stated this was not in my head, but genuine pain).

I had more grief and heartache and jerked around majorly from Comcare and C....link who were my former employers than getting on the DSP. Honestly, I would have much preferred to keep working in any other position,other than one that necessitated me sitting 100% of the time at the CallCentre, if I could have been able to get up and move around (such as in the front office), I think I would have had a chance. But nope, so here I am.

To the lovely poster who said I'm a hero. Thank you for the compliment, but I honestly think heros are the ones who put their lives on the line for us Aussies, to me they are the heros.

Bender writes...

have you tried lyrica for the nerve pain??

I haven't tried lyrica, but neurontine, tramadol (tramal), sustained tramadol, panadeine Forte, Norspan (10mg and 5mg) etc. Norspan is helping now.

Oh, and lots of mental gymnastics to keep switching my brain forus to something else other than the pain. It does help.

casper1975 writes...

I have 2 cats who mean everything to me as I consider them to be my best friends

Me too (I have two), I can't count how many times on a really bad pain day, that I'll have either one of them, or both (very bad pain day) lying beside me or curled up near me. Amazing how a paw gently placed on your face, or their body very gently rubbed up against a particularly achy spot can bring hope and encouragement.

So I'll go without anything to make sure, my mates stay safe and are ok.

Bender writes...

have you tried lyrica for the nerve pain??

or Gabapentin?

Zahira1 writes...

I haven't tried lyrica, but neurontine, tramadol (tramal), sustained tramadol, panadeine Forte, Norspan (10mg and 5mg) etc. Norspan is helping now.

It sounds as though we have some very similar symptoms and have been on or are on the same drugs to manage the pain.

I had the major nerve that runs down the inside of the lag and wraps around the knee damages during a through the knee amputation. Normally a Nerve is cut off clean during an amputation but the end of mine looks like it has 3 or 4 barbs or nicks on the end of it. I don't know what exactly happened as the doctors didn't make any notations of anything going wrong in surgery but the end of that nerve causes me constant, chronic, pain.

Some days that pain is at 1-3 on a scale of 1 to 10 and I can function without too much distraction. Other days that pain is at the other end of that 1 to 10 scale and I'm actually puking because I'm in so much pain.

Over the years they've tried me on many different drugs and I'm currently on 3.6 grams a day of Gabapentin (aka Neurontin) and 400 Milligrams a day of Slow Release Tramal. That plus the biofeedback mental tricks that I learned over 20 years ago as part of physical therapy tend to keep the pain at the lower end of the scale.

When the pain is at the top end of the scale for a week or more I'm lucky enough to have a long time GP who will prescribe a course of Oxycontin. I hate to take more than a single course of it at a time though because it puts me in an absolutely foul mood and it's way too easy to end up dependent on it. I've been through the whole "hooked on drugs" thing once in my life and I don't ever want to go through withdrawal again.

Oh, and lots of mental gymnastics to keep switching my brain forus to something else other than the pain. It does help.

That's one of the reasons I play a LOT of MMO's. Keeps my brain engaged and my mind off the pain.

What is it with people thinking they can define what Centrlink payments should and shouldn't be spent on?

I can only imagine what they would say to their boss if he or she were to tell them what they are to use their wages for.

Herbie writes...

I play a LOT of MMO's.

Hi Herbie, what are MMOs?

XaDvAnT writes...

What is it with people thinking they can define what Centrlink payments should and shouldn't be spent on

I agree with you to a point, but if there is an irresponsible parent who's not feeding the kids, not providing the basics and boozing up to the hilt, then I think there's every right to redirect what is public funds in a more suitable way.

Zahira1 writes...

Me too (I have two), I can't count how many times on a really bad pain day, that I'll have either one of them, or both (very bad pain day) lying beside me or curled up near me. Amazing how a paw gently placed on your face, or their body very gently rubbed up against a particularly achy spot can bring hope and encouragement.

So I'll go without anything to make sure, my mates stay safe and are ok. Animals are amazing & they seem to be very underestimated by the human race, One of my cats Casper he loves to do the paw tapping thing & I wouldn't have it any other way even if it is at 3am in the morning sometimes.

casper1975 writes...

3am in the morning sometimes

or a cold wet nose at 6am, because he decided it was time for breakfast.

Zahira1 writes...

Hi Herbie, what are MMOs?

MMO's are Massively Multiplayer Online games. The most popular example is World of Warcraft but there are many others such as Star Trek Online, Eve Online, and Lord of the Rings Online.

Zahira1 writes...

I agree with you to a point, but if there is an irresponsible parent who's not feeding the kids, not providing the basics and boozing up to the hilt

This happens to people who make their own income too. While it is sad to see, what people do with their money is their responsibility. I certainly wouldn't want my cash replaced with vouchers because people decide I shouldn't enjoy a couple of drinks during a night out with some friends.

That's just communism right there! (Disclaimer: statement may or may not be true)

Herbie writes...

or Gabapentin?

just had a quick read on Gabapentin sounds similar to lyrica, but seems to have way more side effects.
lyrica is really expesnive though, at $190 a box for the strongest that wont last a month if you take 2 a day

Zahira1 writes...

or a cold wet nose at 6am, because he decided it was time for breakfast. My other cat Bogong like to do the wet nose thing but he gives really good head rubs.

Zahira1 writes...

tramadol (tramal), sustained tramadol, panadeine Forte, Norspan (10mg and 5mg) etc. Norspan is helping now.

Tramadol gave me side effects but 10mg of Norspan is helping me as well & no side effects to speak of :)

Bender writes...

just had a quick read on Gabapentin sounds similar to lyrica, but seems to have way more side effects.

It is similar. Lyrica is inappropriate for me as I had drug abuse problems in my late teenage and young adult years and I try not to take anything for an extended period of time that I might abuse. I'm a completely different person without many of the emotional problems that drove me to abuse drugs still in my life but once an addict, always an addict.

Rotten Ronnie writes...

Tramadol gave me side effects

My biggest side effect with Tramadol is short term memory problems. I have to take notes about everything lest I forget it was even told to me in the first place.

Tramadol = spaced out ,speech was affected by speeding up & saying umm all the time & chucking up for me :(

Winter Paralympics on ABC @ 6.30pm this week might interest some of us.
Bart Bunting blind skier.

Herbie writes...

My biggest side effect with Tramadol is short term memory problems.

When I discontinued Lexapro I lost the ability to use my short term memory when I discontinued Lexapro. Also it effected my short term memory along with me forgetting things.

XaDvAnT writes...

When I discontinued Lexapro I lost the ability to use my short term memory when I discontinued Lexapro. Also it effected my short term memory along with me forgetting things.

I love the way you posted that. I'm not actually on a SSRI as even with all the pain and mood alterations from the Tramadol and Gabapentin (and over the counter Panadine when needed) I'm still a very upbeat person that doesn't have emotional problems for the most part. I will have to watch for that when the wife works her way off Lexapro though.

As a blindy, I rely on my short term memory a lot. I don't have the visual clues of where I put things or what needs to be done, and when my memory went bad I found it very difficult to cope with even simple tasks.

It's almost a year later and I'm still trying to get used to it. My doc says nothing can be done and suggested I try a naturopath, so I must be really screwed!

Rotten Ronnie writes...

Tramadol = spaced out ,speech was affected by speeding up & saying umm all the time & chucking up for me :(

I enjoyed that experience :) Slow thinking legal arguments

Rotten Ronnie writes...

Tramadol gave me side effects but 10mg of Norspan is helping me as well & no side effects to speak of :) I'm on Tramadol 100mg & when I first started it I slept 15 hours a day & I also take Panamax it doesn't kill my pain but at least it makes me function in a basic way daily.

XaDvAnT writes...

As a blindy, I rely on my short term memory a lot. I don't have the visual clues of where I put things or what needs to be done, and when my memory went bad I found it very difficult to cope with even simple tasks.

It's almost a year later and I'm still trying to get used to it. My doc says nothing can be done and suggested I try a naturopath, so I must be really screwed! I'm a blindy as well so I know how important memory is but sometimes I do tend to forget things I think that could have something to do with all the medication I have to take.

casper1975 writes...

Totally agree with you on that one they chose to drink or shoot up so they should live with their decision as the saying goes "You make your own bed you have to lie in it".

ONly one problem here alot of substance user's are also Duel diagnosed.

casper1975 writes...

take Panamax it doesn't kill my pain

Pain as a result from?

BTW, any update on getting people on Disability Pension to work? I think maybe as high as 90% of all people on DP can do some type of work.

Rotten Ronnie writes...

Tramadol = spaced out , that and combined with high levels of neurontine, I was pulled off the road for a year by the doc. When I stopped these two (they stopped working) then I could start back driving. :)

I'm thinking here, this is just a small amount of the stuff we DSP'ers have to deal with on a daily basis. Not only do we have the actual disability to deal with, it's the side effects of the drugs that we have to take just to have a modicum of a quality/bearable life. Often its a constant juggle to find a cocktail that works. Someone once put it to me (I was taking well over 17 tablets a day) "you have a tablet breakfast" Yep :(

Zahira1 writes...

(I was taking well over 17 tablets a day) "you have a tablet breakfast" Yep :(

That's drug abuse, nothing more, nothing less.

Have you noticed we have become a drug society. They make billions each year by being drug pushers, so they medicalise everything and give tablets for this and that.

Pharmaceutical, Doctors, Psychiatrists and various drug companies saw an opportunity to profit. Normal kids and adults having childlike tantrums and poor behaviour is being medicalised and turned into a disease.

There are millions of people around the world who are healthy and can work, but have been convinced, tricked and labeled with a disease and now take drugs which they don't really need and placed on Disability pensions.

MrMozart writes...

Pain as a result from?

You could check out Casper's posts :)

MrMozart writes...

There are millions of people around the world who are healthy and can work, but have been convinced, tricked and labeled with a disease and now take drugs which they don't really need and placed on Disability pensions.

How do you know that?

MrMozart writes...

That's drug abuse, nothing more, nothing less. Not drug abuse, just sheer trying to get on top of severe, chronic and unremitting pain. I certainly didn't liike it either. Don't worry, by this time I was seriously being considered to be sent down to Brisbane for further pain treatment that wasn't available here, but as usual Comcare wasn't going to front up with the costs, and I certainly didn't have the money to pay for it either.

MrMozart writes...

BTW, any update on getting people on Disability Pension to work? I think maybe as high as 90% of all people on DP can do some type of work. I'm on the blind pension but I have to deal with other health issues & yes I do agree that many people on DSP can do some kind of work but factors which may effect this Include:

-Location, If you live in a rural area there are no jobs for the disabled as the work that is offered is all manual labour

-Employers attitudes, I've had over 15 years experience in my field & before my health went down the dunny I applied for hundreds of jobs but when employers find out your disabled they tend to lose interest & tell you to piss off.

-Hours work, If it's deemed that you can work but for less than 40 hours a week how is someone meant to survive on a wage which is worth 15 to 30 hours a week?, You will still need some kind of government support & that is a loop hole which needs to be looked at.

Zahira,
Are you aware that Chronic Pain is now recognized as a disease in its own right . Things are hopefully going to change for the better, very soon ,for sufferers of chronic pain.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/11/2843354.htm?section=justin

Anyone who thinks it is easy to get onto a DSP ,these days, does not know how difficult it really is . But thats not likely to stop being experts on the matter. : )

MrMozart writes...

That's drug abuse, nothing more, nothing less. In a way I have to agree but for a person who is day in day out having to deal with chronic pain then you should understand why they do it, Myself I always stick to the directions that have been outlined by my doctor & I may only take extra if I know I'm going to be bed ridden by pain. I also have to factor in that I take medications for other conditions so I prefer to play it safe.

Zahira1 writes...

that and combined with high levels of neurontine, I was pulled off the road for a year by the doc. When I stopped these two (they stopped working) then I could start back driving. :)

I'm thinking here, this is just a small amount of the stuff we DSP'ers have to deal with on a daily basis. Not only do we have the actual disability to deal with, it's the side effects of the drugs that we have to take just to have a modicum of a quality/bearable life. Often its a constant juggle to find a cocktail that works. Someone once put it to me (I was taking well over 17 tablets a day) "you have a tablet breakfast" Yep :( I totally agree I have to take 16 tablets a day & although some may see this as drug abuse I have to take 8 different kinds of medications a day, Although it may give me some quality of life there are days where I actually do feel the side effects of the medication & I can feel like a zombie.

Rotten Ronnie writes...

You could check out Casper's posts :) Is that a good thing of bad thing?.

kewlster writes...

Are you aware that Chronic Pain is now recognized as a disease in its own right

Thank you for the link.

I hadn't realised that. It would help us chronic pain sufferers so much if it was. The difficulty is in proving it. Even though I had at least 5 witnesses to my accident, none were prepared to speak up, lest they lost their jobs. As far as Comcare is concerned, no scars, no visible injury = no injury at all. Pain in their book does not exist as a condition in its own right.

There is an issue of discrimination against patients with the disease of chronic pain compared to other chronic diseases. and this is the daily struggle that chronic pain patients undergoe. The old story of can't see it, or it doesn't fit within a "Socially Defined" norm of a disabled person, so therefore in society's eyes it doesn't exist.

casper1975 writes...

Myself I always stick to the directions that have been outlined by my doctor & I may only take extra if I know I'm going to be bed ridden by pain.

Same here, it's a daily see saw where you have to work out what pain you can deal with at a particular time. i.e. If you have to really be on top of your game at work, then you can't go out the night before, you find a way to have a very short walk to get to work and you certainly don't even think of going shopping two days before hand. – Why, well because pain accumulates, and accumulated pain means high levels of pain relief = dopey.

So it's a case of managing your life in order to manage the pain.

casper1975 writes...

how is someone meant to survive on a wage which is worth 15 to 30 hours a week

This is something I don't get either. Honestly with government rules, its either work full-time – which quite a few of us can't due to our disability, or work a day a week, just to keep the pension. We are cactus either way.

Zahira1 writes...

Not drug abuse, just sheer trying to get on top of severe, chronic and unremitting pain.

Drugs focus on the result of the pain, and not the source of the pain. Best to get the source dealt with.

casper1975 writes...

I've had over 15 years experience in my field & before my health went down the dunny I applied for hundreds of jobs but when employers find out your disabled they tend to lose interest

I understand casper1975.

I just found a classic case of someone who is defrauding the system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBFsjc_rYiI&feature=related

MrMozart writes...

Best to get the source dealt wi

I agree, but the trouble with neuropathic pain is that the nerves have been damaged and are sending a constant feedback loop of pain. Can't really fix broken nerves.:(

Zahira1 writes...

Can't really fix broken nerves.:(

Ouch, yeah I know. I have nerve damage in my neck.

casper1975 writes...

I just found a classic case of someone who is defrauding the system.

I think I remember that when it done on TV. There been so many not funny.

SO the big question is how do people like this who obviously have nothing wrong with them get the disability pension, and people with real genuine issues who should be on it have to look for work. This is the real big question.

I for one thing am just trying to understand this bit of logic.

thundergod writes...

I think I remember that when it done on TV. There been so many not funny.

SO the big question is how do people like this who obviously have nothing wrong with them get the disability pension, and people with real genuine issues who should be on it have to look for work. This is the real big question.

I for one thing am just trying to understand this bit of logic. Yeah I agree this question has always played in my head as well I can't understand how people like this are actually able to get on DSP, However we should relies that perhaps 20 years ago it was a lot easier to get on DSP than it is now the government are trying to increase productivity in the country hence the crack down.

MrMozart writes...

casper1975 writes...

Pain as a result from?

BTW, any update on getting people on Disability Pension to work? I think maybe as high as 90% of all people on DP can do some type of work.

"some type of work" is a rather nebulous comment. I'm actively trying to get back to work and once this coming week is over it's back to looking as the job putting bottle caps together was more of a "is he ready to get back into the workforce" experiment than anything else. The other reason for doing it is to get recent work experience on a resume. Next is 4-6 weeks of volunteer work just so I can out it on the resume. That's another month to month and a half that I won't be paid but have to be extremely careful how much time I volunteer because even if I really like the work and wanna put more time in I could end up killing my DSP since I'm not sitting at home on my ass doing nothing.

I eventually want to get off the DSP but without it there as I'm trying to get back to work I'd be completely screwed.

casper1975 writes...

Is that a good thing of bad thing?

If he had bothered to check your posts he wouldn't of needed to ask the question :)

MrMozart writes...

Drugs focus on the result of the pain, and not the source of the pain. Best to get the source dealt with.

In my case that's provably NOT true. I could go and have surgery on the damaged nerve to remove the damaged end and for the first year or two I'd most likely be completely pain free.

Sounds wonderful but the problem comes 2-3 years out from the surgery. Case studies have shown that in almost all cases the pain gets worse than it was originally. There's not a chance on this planet or any other that I'm signing up for that no matter how many drugs I have to take on a daily basis.

Well today when it comes to dealing with pain, it is easier to give the person a anti depressant rather than get to the source of the issue. The problem has to be treated, no point in treating the symptom as that will never fix the problem. But being the world we live in today, there is more money to be spend and made when symptoms are treated rather than fixing the problem.

I just hope I can even manage to find myself a small part time job, as I am to the point I just cannot cope with this constant bs I gotta go through each time I see my job network member. I mean seriously, how many times must I tell them what type of work I am looking for, and work that I am sure I am capable of doing without triggering my existing issues.

Today I really had to spell it out to my job network member. I had to use baby talk so she could understand that me getting seriously ill all those years ago is what costed me a good job that took me 2 years to find. There is really no other way I can say it. This is the very essence of it.

I made many sacrifices in my life, saving what I can from work as I was saving to put a deposit down onto buying my first house (was looking in areas I knew I could afford, finding out how much I could borrow, and working out how much I would need to save). It would of happened had I not got seriously ill. Now that opportunity has gone now. My reward I got for wanting to go forward in life, is the ongoing health problems I have now.

Well it seems now in the coming month I have to attend a job placement program. This will be really good. Guess I better stack up on the coffee then :). Whether they actually find me a job remains to be seen. Not that I don't expect them to. I rely on myself to find employment, like have done previously.

thundergod writes...

no point in treating the symptom as that will never fix the problem.

I don't know if you've ever suffered from chronice sever pain or a long amount of severe pain.

But I would contend that while it is preferable to get to the source of the issue, having seen people in severe pain, I feel sorry for them and I would not say there is "no point" in treating the symptom.

Say you found out it would take a year or two to get to the bottom of the source and fix it? For a person to have some relief, would there be "no point" in treating the symptom? I think many people in severe pain would say there would be lots of point!

And say there was unlikely to be any chance of getting to the source of the problem at all ... do we just say, well don't even treat the symptoms, just let the person feel the pain or have the other debilitating symptoms?

At least treating the symptoms may let them lead a happy and productive life.