Whirlpool

Hi, I was recently employed to work on this website
URL – REMOVED
My job was to update the already existing website.
The site owner and I exchanged emails and phone calls until all the updates were completed. I also free of charge added in seo friendly urls and redesigned all the spread sheets and html so editing would be easier and take less time. All went good until on Sunday night, the site owned wanted me to change a few words and add in spacing on some pages between paragraphs and just little non crucial cosmetics. A matter came up and I sent an email saying I will be away for a few days. It is now Thursday and the site owner changed the password and sent me a message when I asked why I can't login saying she doesn't need me anymore. She is ignoring my messages now and I've yet to be paid for anything.

I have her old website files and new ones as local copies with 3 different versions.
And all the emails that we exchanged still inboxed. I've never really had this happen before so unsure of the action I should take. Pretty much just want to get paid for the work I did at least or all the files reverted to what they were before I started.

Any help would be great.

bugger! that's a shame for you mate. Seems extremely unreasonable of her to do that out of the blue.

Sam0t writes...

And all the emails that we exchanged still inboxed. I've never really had this happen before so unsure of the action I should take. Pretty much just want to get paid for the work I did at least or all the files reverted to what they were before I started.

Any help would be great.

Thanks for your time, Thomas

Any legal advice threads are usually herring material – read the FAQ but having said that, try writing a polite but firm letter of demand outlining why you should pay would be a good start.

After that, consider relevant tribunals, debt collectors and/or lawyers bearing in mind that:

a) there's a cost involved – so make sure the cost doesn't outweigh any benefit
b) legal advice is expensive and always double, triple or even quadruple any estimates offered by lawyers

and finally, you could just chalk this one as learning experience... never do anything unless you're going to be paid in instalments.

Hi Thomas,

This is what I would do in your situation.

Send them an invoice for the agreed hours at the agreed rate with "14 day payment terms" explicitly stated. This should be printed and sent via registered post. If they haven't paid within 14 days send them an overdue letter, again via registered post.

If they ignore the overdue letter, send them a final notice letter informing that you will take further action if they don't pay immediatly.

If they don't pay, go and spend an hour with a soliciter and get them to draft a letter of demand on letterhead. I would imagine that this step would get the vast majority of clients to pay up immediatly.

If they ignore this then the soliciter will be able to adivse you of the best course of action, including making a claim via the legal system (which for small amounts is via small claims and isn't that expensive), selling the debt to a debt collection agency and numerous other options.

On a more technical note, if you're doing work prior to being paid, it's always best to show your progress on a staging server that you control.

Migration to the production site should only happen after payment is cleared.

+1 to Happy Noodle Boy – for new clients, always keep control until they've put the money in the box.

SIMB Web Design writes...

+1 to Happy Noodle Boy – for new clients, always keep control until they've put the money in the box.

Yup, and doesn't even have to be the full amount, you can both agree on percentages to be paid prior to release and after release – this way the customer feels secure too.

The other thing to do is to release things into production in stages. This reduces the risk of you doing a large chunk of work for nothing.

Sam0t writes...

I was recently employed to work on this website

Do you have any form of legal agreement in place? Like a signed contract? Did you place anything identifying you or your company in any of the client's HTML pages (like a 'developed by' notice)?

s-m writes...

Did you place anything identifying you or your company in any of the client's HTML pages (like a 'developed by' notice)?

If there was, how would that assist?

Wha..?

Sam0t writes...

She is ignoring my messages now

Have you tried her mobile phone? She was nice enough to include it on her website.

theres also the debt collection agency option. they usually charge a percentage or a couple of hundred bucks (so it depends on how much the job was worth to you) but they often get the money. Of course, I would give her every reasonable opportunity to pay up first – similar as to has been posted above.

SIMB Web Design writes...

+1 to Happy Noodle Boy

another +

anyway did you sign any sort of agreement with her? if yes, invoice then lawyer...

otherwise, just live and learn, let it go and next time cover your ground

Lets hope thne bad PR on here will kick karma into effect :)

hope she will get a some bad karma her way

I don't even start working without a deposit, usually 50% up front.
(And contracts for new customers)
Having said that, that ^Salo^ answer seems the way to go.
Good luck.

Sam0t writes...

I've yet to be paid for anythin

How much does she owe? $50 $500 or more? That website is a template site for sure, probably cost no more then $50 if not got it for free, you will be hard to get paid for the work you did. Save yourself from anymore pain be happy not to have to deal with client again

haz31 writes...

This is what I would do in your situation.

Send them an invoice for the agreed hours at the agreed rate with "14 day payment terms" explicitly stated. This should be printed and sent via registered post. If they haven't paid within 14 days send them an overdue letter, again via registered post.

If they ignore the overdue letter, send them a final notice letter informing that you will take further action if they don't pay immediatly.

(this is the correct course of action – speaking from experience)

The further action to take after these steps is to go to small claims and believe me, "important" people hate having to cancel meeting etc to go and sort out some small matter at a small claims tribunal.

Best of luck.

p.s in the worst case scenario (for you), Karma wil deal with her ;-)

Website for crazy cult..... I am sorry but you were asking for it accepting that job in the first place :) jks

Best advise has already been said: /forum-replies.cfm?t=1233982#r4

Wait are you saying you haven't invoiced her yet? most businesses require an invoice to pay...

Sam0t writes...

A matter came up and I sent an email saying I will be away for a few days. It is now Thursday and the site owner changed the password and sent me a message when I asked why I can't login saying she doesn't need me anymore. She is ignoring my messages now and I've yet to be paid for anything.

Are you jumping the gun, yes.

You haven't indicated that she is refusing to pay you. Just thank her for her business and send her and invoice for the agreed amount on your agreed terms.

Start there and see how you go.

PS: you better keep this thread updated as there seems to be a bit of interest. :)

Clark Kent writes...

If there was, how would that assist?

It provides proof that work was done (assuming the site owners don't remove it).

There is nothing you can really do, you'll just waste more time chasing after invisible money, just move on from here...

Contact her host and tell them the issue – youll be surprised at what a host does in this situation.

Definitely invoice her and wait for a few weeks. Your invoice should be detailed and summarize what was done, how long it took, and on what date. If she doesn't pay, send her a friendly letter asking for payment and mention politely that the work was completed as requested and that if non-payment continues, you will unfortunately have no choice but to forward the matter to debt collectors or raising an unpaid bill with the credit agencies/her credit record (get help with the wording). Keep everything polite and courteous at all stages, or you will forfeit your right to be paid. (ie: Don't give her the excuse that you are rude and don't deserve payment because of that!).

If the amount is significant, and the above doesn't work, you could consider a lawyer's letter, but the credit listing will get most people to pay eventually.

In future, always get a deposit up front. We won't do work for people for small jobs unless they pay in full, up front, before we start; especially for new customers. For larger jobs (> $1000) we get people to pay on a percentage plan matching how far we've gone (either 40%->40%->20% or 50%->50%). Also not a bad idea to get a short written agreement signed, saying more work costs more, and turnaround is X days unless otherwise agreed, and a few other disclaimerish-type things.

Remember if her site is hosted in the US (as many cheap web hosts are) then you can send a DMCA takedown notice to them to remove the site.

If you created content on the site then copyright was yours from the moment of creation, without a contract to transfer the copyright to her business, you have reasonable grounds to ask your work to not be displayed elsewhere.

Thread closed at request of OP.

Situation seems to have been resolved.