Whirlpool

Hi guys!

I have been alledged to have plagerised in a assesment peice and i have no idea if i will be expelled, result will be marked down, or will obtain no credit for that subject.
I am in my 4th year and have never done a "essay type assignment" due to a heavily maths based course. I chose to do a FIRST year subject which involved alot of essay assessments.

I got done on turn it in. This is my first account of plagerism from the 4 years and I am hell worried because I am in my last semester and it would be tragic if i got expelled.

What do you guys think?

well did u plagerised in the first place?

yes i did, only because i forgot to change it into my words and i saved different revisions of my work, and when i came back i forgot 2 change the words... i know thats a bad way of writing essays!

What was your turnitin result?

EDIT:

Zdravce88 writes...

yes i did

Well then you deserve everything you get

Yea i deserve it, but would expulsion be an outcome seeing its my first time?

Turn it in 30%

Generally you wouldn't get an expulsion but rather a fail for that subject; meaning you'd have to repeat that subject.

You should have edited it if you got a turnitin of 30%. Anything above 15 is a bit worrisome if turnitin has caught you for anything more than quotations and references.

I thought so, which is okay because it is a non engineering elective....

Where would expulsion occur?

I will stick to mathematical roots from now on and never touch an essay!

Since it is your first offense, suspension or expulsion isn't a worry.

Tuna writes...

You should have edited it if you got a turnitin of 30%. Anything above 15 is a bit worrisome if turnitin has caught you for anything more than quotations and references.

Yea, again i had no idea how to use turn it in, i was under the assumption that you submitt it and then thats what u get...

Tuna writes...

Since it is your first offense, suspension or expulsion isn't a worry.

+1. The unis don't want to forfeit the revenue they get off students for one offense. A serial offender is a different story. A zero for the assignment is guaranteed and maybe an f for the subject if their tight.

SteveyJ writes...

A zero for the assignment is guaranteed and maybe an f for the subject if their tight.

Well the assessment basically determines if i pass the course or not because it is weighted pretty heavily. But as i said its an elective subject so i can choose anything else instead of it. hopefuly with numbers lol. I just wished theyd hurry up and let me know whats happening!!!!!

Zdravce88 writes...

pass the course

Pass the subject******

You'll be fine.

I'm quite confident you'll just get a 0 for the assignment.
Even if you fail the elective, just choose another subject after.

If they do even think about expelling you, you'll be pulled in front of a tribuneral or some big names to explain yourself.
With the explanation that you've given us, I'd say it's quite reasonable.

Don't sweat man, you'll be right.

Zdravce88 writes...

I am in my 4th year

You probably should have known better; whilst you are an engineering student, a quick email to the course convener could have fixed this up. Of course, you could have avoided the plagiarism altogether, but that's a moot point now.

Yea well it is my first time. I talked to the lecturer, and he said that it went to the head of school and then its been refered to the disaplinary board and they will get into contact with me.

When I was in uni, guy in my year in Software Eng got done for an assignment worth 30% or something.

He got a 0 for the subject and had to repeat it next sem.

Did you copy someone's work or did you cut and paste from the internet. If it's the latter, just mention your inexperience in referencing, essay writing etc. If its copying from someone's work, thats a poor effort regardless of whether it was an essay or not.

I've been in a similar situation. I gave my final assignment (about 50% of the subject) to a friend of who was struggling to finish his assignment. Unfortunately he distributed my assignment to two of his other friends. They ended up all handing in basically the same assignment as me.

I got hardly any marks for it; and this was only after discussing it with the lecturer. I failed and had to repeat the course because of I didn't get enough marks to pass. It was not a good experience but I learnt my lesson.

Zdravce88 writes...

yes i did, only because i forgot to change it into my words

it's not about changing words.. you need to reference what you use, credit the source and use it in context to support your arguments...

geemanuk writes...

it's not about changing words.. you need to reference what you use, credit the source and use it in context to support your arguments...

That's provided he was using a source such as journal articles, encyclopaedic entries, etc. If he used a friend's work as his "source", then he can't reference that.

let me guess, is it project management subject?
haha, everyone copied from everyone when i was doing that in uni.

Don't worry, everyone plagarises. Its like masturbation – a slightly taboo topic that everyone is afraid to admit that they do. Its perfectly normal. We've been plagarising ever since the dawn of mankind. However the issue here is referencing all the sources.

I was in a similar situation last year with TurnItIn. I got a letter saying such and such. It was my first offence so I wrote a letter and I got another chance to redo the assignment (highest mark possible was of course 50%). Hehe however the advantage was I had already received the assignment with comments on it where I went wrong so I simply fixed up those mistakes and handed it back in. Piece of cake.

I wouldn't worry about, just be careful in future.

MeeM writes...

That's provided he was using a source such as journal articles, encyclopaedic entries, etc. If he used a friend's work as his "source", then he can't reference tha

he can if his friends work had gone thru a peer review and had been printed :P, yeah I know you already said journals I was just being a smart azz

Don't worry, everyone plagarises. Its like masturbation – a slightly taboo topic that everyone is afraid to admit that they do. Its perfectly normal. We've been plagarising ever since the dawn of mankind. However the issue here is referencing all the sources.

I was in a similar situation last year with TurnItIn. I got a letter saying such and such. It was my first offence so I wrote a letter and I got another chance to redo the assignment (highest mark possible was of course 50%). Hehe however the advantage was I had already received the assignment with comments on it where I went wrong so I simply fixed up those mistakes and handed it back in. Piece of cake.

I wouldn't worry about, just be careful in future.

Mr Miyagi.

Mr Miyagi writes...

Don't worry, everyone plagarises. Its like masturbation – a slightly taboo topic that everyone is afraid to admit that they do. Its perfectly normal. We've been plagarising ever since the dawn of mankind. However the issue here is referencing all the sources.

I was in a similar situation last year with TurnItIn. I got a letter saying such and such. It was my first offence so I wrote a letter and I got another chance to redo the assignment (highest mark possible was of course 50%). Hehe however the advantage was I had already received the assignment with comments on it where I went wrong so I simply fixed up those mistakes and handed it back in. Piece of cake.

I wouldn't worry about, just be careful in future.

Mr Miyagi.

Kind of plagerised there didn't you?
TurnItIn score: 100%
Where as me on the other hand I referenced by "quoting".

To the OP, not much can be done until the Uni gets back to you. Did you do a direct quote from a source(s) and forget to reference, or did you just copy stuff out and "pretend" it was yours? If you did a direct quote in " and forgot to reference you might be able to argue and be ok.

Ironic isn't it :D

LOL

geemanuk writes...

it's not about changing words.. you need to reference what you use, credit the source and use it in context to support your arguments...

Exactly. I suppose you can plead your case saying you've got two versions. I myself usually keep all my research in one document, and then read the stuff and put in my own words in another document so I understand how easily you can make the mistake of turning in the wrong one.

Rillanon writes...

let me guess, is it project management subject?

Yeah the first thing I thought when I read this thread was that it was a management subject.

I think when pleading your case you should say you didn't understand how to reference etc., if that really was the case. A 0 in a subject is a lot worse than say a 30% after getting a 0 for an assignment!

MutePoet writes...

I got hardly any marks for it; and this was only after discussing it with the lecturer. I failed and had to repeat the course because of I didn't get enough marks to pass. It was not a good experience but I learnt my lesson.

Sometimes i think your unit-coordinator may be able to split up the marks for the assignment between the people who copied. For example, if the assignment got 80/100 but 4 people handed in the same assignment, then everyone gets 20/100 for it.

I guess its better than getting a 0 for it.

Rillanon writes...

let me guess, is it project management subject?

haha, everyone copied from everyone when i was doing that in uni.

Flashbacks lol...remember this was hilarious when I had friends who copied at least 80% of my assignment and when we got the assignments back most of the time they received higher marks than me.

One other "friend" just moved the paragraphs around and still received a higher mark than me lol.

OP, if you cited the reference then there'd be no plagerism. Why didn't you use proper citation? It doesn't even need to be Harvard style referencing, just a mention of the author and source. Of course, if your whole assignment was just a great big quote from another text then that's a different case.

BTW – Is this yet another Unimelb assignment?

PooshWaltzer writes...

Harvard style referencing

I hate Harvard, and when everyone tells you to format essays differently than mark you down for not doing it the way they like.

Zdravce88 writes...

then its been refered to the disaplinary board and they will get into contact with me.

That doesn't sounds too good for you ...

Better find out who is on that board and try to talk to one of them before they meet.

You could always make an appointment to see the Dean or the Sub-Dean and explain your case.

Are there any other students got caught as well?

SteveyJ writes...

The unis don't want to forfeit the revenue they get off students for one offense. A serial offender is a different story. A zero for the assignment is guaranteed and maybe an f for the subject if their tight.

Up-front disclaimer – I'm a university academic.

It's disturbing to (keep) reading that students believe themselves to be seen as cash-cows for universities. Whether or not the OP is penalised for plagiarism has nothing to do with the income that the OP provides for the university (typically about 1/3 of the true cost of their education). At any disciplinary hearing, or board of examiners' meeting, the local or international fees paid by any student play no part in the determination of their assessment or penalties.

Yes, there are well publicised exceptions to this, and they deserve to be exposed, regardless of whether they involve local or international students. But the handful of such cases are far outweighed by the hundreds of thousands of other students passing through the higher-ed system.

If someone is not severely penalised for their first plagiarism offence, it is not because of concerns for lost fees. Leniency is reasonably applied on the grounds that almost every student will make such a "mistake" during their degree, even if they don't get caught. If a student is severely penalised for their 2nd or greater offence, there is no consideration as to whether a university can afford to "write off" the lost fees.

A zero is not guaranteed for the assignment, though that would seem a reasonable penalty. The assessment details and penalties of any unit should be clearly announced during the first week or two of any semester, and it's each student's responsibility to be aware of these – not to be surprised about their existence and extent only if something goes wrong.

jaxh writes...

I hate Harvard, and when everyone tells you to format essays differently than mark you down for not doing it the way they like.

I totally agree. The Uni I'm at has two different example documents on assignment layout and harvard referencing guide, and provide links to more indepth guides published outside the Uni which are different. As an example, one guide says to use a , between author names in a reference list, and the other to use a . and I was marked down in one assignment for improper reference list because I happen to use the ,

Not worth fighting over unless I did overall a poor assignment and fixing those reference errors was the difference between pass and fail. Getting off topic a little, I really hate the University with their documentation on assignment presentation. Couple that with the fact that they require A4 page with electronic submission but the required coverpage is in letter size and doesn't render down properly to A4.....am I paying all this money for an education or to spend 20% of my assignment time trying to get those damn stupid presentation guidelines correct?

Now don't get me started when doing a compulsory business subject who require the law method of footnote references in one of their assignments, but then the standard harvard method in another....argh make up your mind.

Solicitous writes...

am I paying all this money for an education or to spend 20% of my assignment time trying to get those damn stupid presentation guidelines correct?

The presentation of your ideas is almost as important as the ideas themselves. Poorly presented work will be regarded poorly regardless of its actual quality. Think about it: how many times have you waded through inconsistently typset or poorly organised texts to get at some nugget of gold? It's tiring and frustrating. Even if you did make the effort, how did you feel at the end toward the authors?

Yes, picking on small shit like the placement of commas vs periods etc is frustrating but you only need to learn how once. After that, it's all second nature and you never need worry about it again.

Zdravce88 writes...

yes i did, only because i forgot to change it into my words and i saved different revisions of my work, and when i came back i forgot 2 change the words... i know thats a bad way of writing essays!

wow, 4th year university student... i wont even want to think how essays are taught to be written in high school.

Former Academic here as well – Most of the plagirism I have seen was in first year, first semester courses. In these cases, I gave 0 (which was publicised in the first lecture and in the course material). This is because I gave first years the benefit of the doubt, and a zero will hopefully mean that they will learn from their mistakes. However, they were reported to head of school as a way of ensuring that second and third offences are picked up and dealt with.

These second and third offences can lead to expulsion.. with a hearing in the academic senate and subsequently most other universities won't accept expelled students either.

For a fourth year, regardless of discipline (I taught mathematics and statistics), I would be far less lenient and would seek advice from Head of School, with the look at a much harsher penalty. Fourth years should know much, much better.

If you get a zero, you should consider yourself lucky.

Those complaining about Harvard referencing, remember that the format and means of citation is just another form of documentation. Extensive documentation happens all the time in professional workplaces and is a prerequisite to both time and task management. If you cannot grasp this basic concept of giving credit where credit is due by 3rd/4th year, then I'm genuinely sorry to hear.

lfa writes...

Don't worry, everyone plagarises.

Rubbish.

However the issue here is referencing all the sources.

If you're referencing sources it's not plagiarism (unless you're copying text and then kindly telling your lecturer where you copied from).

Hehe however the advantage was I had already received the assignment with comments on it where I went wrong so I simply fixed up those mistakes and handed it back in. Piece of cake.

It's a problem if you couldn't have passed the second time around without the comments...

Mr Miyagi writes...

Mr Miyagi.

lol.

Solicitous writes...

Did you do a direct quote from a source(s) and forget to reference, or did you just copy stuff out and "pretend" it was yours? If you did a direct quote in " and forgot to reference you might be able to argue and be ok.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not plagiarism since you're clearly indicating it's not your own work.

In that case they'd just indicate you didn't provide the source (and you'd probably lose marks for incomplete referencing).

jaxh writes...

I hate Harvard, and when everyone tells you to format essays differently than mark you down for not doing it the way they like.

There's normally a style guide etc that makes the required referencing clear, or any major referencing system is fine as long as it's consistent.

chrism238 writes...

Leniency is reasonably applied on the grounds that almost every student will make such a "mistake" during their degree, even if they don't get caught.

That's very sad.

xs ive writes...

Yes, picking on small shit like the placement of commas vs periods etc is frustrating but you only need to learn how once. After that, it's all second nature and you never need worry about it again.

I think his point is that since the university provides examples that contradict each other students are unable to ensure the presentation is correct.

PooshWaltzer writes...

If you cannot grasp this basic concept of giving credit where credit is due by 3rd/4th year, then I'm genuinely sorry to hear.

A complaint about Harvard referencing isn't a complaint about being required to credit sources.

There are plenty of alternative referencing formats (ie. Chicago) that one might like better.

While I used Harvard quite often I do find that footnotes/endnotes are less obtrusive, which is a good thing.

PS. If you weren't making this point I'm not sure why your post was one large paragraph. ;)

ZooStation writes...

If you get a zero, you should consider yourself lucky.

Indeed. Had you been looking to enter a profession where they vet you ethically (such as law) prior to entry, plagiarism pretty much guarantees you will never get admitted.

In the case of admission to practice law, the admissions committee require a statement of good academic standing from the university; they see plagiarism as a particularly serious breach of ethics which will bar you from admission. I'm not sure how long this ban lasts for; but throughout studies we've been told that it's pretty much career-ending.

Next time I fill out some application form I will put "Academic" as my employment type. LOL.

'Academics act like they are important, but when something is academic it is meaningless. People say, 'It's academic, now let's get work done.' – Evan Sayet

lfa writes...

Next time I fill out some application form I will put "Academic" as my employment type. LOL.

Why LOL? It's a valid employment type, accepted on tax-returns and immigration documentation worldwide.

I know I know, it just sounds funny. Unit co-ordinator, lecturer, etc sounds more ......normal.

Bullybullwinkledinkle writes...

Flashbacks lol...remember this was hilarious when I had friends who copied at least 80% of my assignment and when we got the assignments back most of the time they received higher marks than me.

Likewise for myself. I felt sorry for a couple of friends struggling in my subject, so I sent my assignment to them. They got 96 and 84, I got 73. They only changed the wording and even then, they got the grammar wrong. I learned my lesson!

Solicitous writes...

and I was marked down in one assignment for improper reference list because I happen to use the ,

That's non real world academics for you!

lfa writes...

Don't worry, everyone plagarises. Its like masturbation – a slightly taboo topic that everyone is afraid to admit that they do. Its perfectly normal. We've been plagarising ever since the dawn of mankind. However the issue here is referencing all the sources.

You know what – that is so true. Even the uber nerds in my engineering degree plagurised off myself (and each other) when I was more than happy to help them (and I never received any help in return) yet held their heads high like their shit didnt stink. To anyone who thinks they've never plagurised in their life, I call them a liar and would never trust them.

If it was up to me, I'd make you redo the assignment, however I understand that lecturers are social retards that want to put you through as much pain as they went through (what I like to call the cycle of pain). You'll probably fail the assignment, and if you're unlucky the subject.

^
Word.

Everyone plagiarises? Really? Surprised I don't fit in to this category, having completed several degrees...

To the O.P. – I find it hard to accept you have made it to fourth year of any discipline (especially engineering) without writing an essay or other written piece requiring referencing and review... however, if your story is true, a zero seems to be the best-case scenario – your work should be YOUR WORK – is there any academic program in which this is unclear? If this is a difficult concept then perhaps your engineering course is not particularly stringent to expected controls of academic programs (programmes?).

To other contributors who seem to accept that plagiarism is acceptable – do you not understand the distinction between 'sourcing information from referenced sources to perform a written analysis' and 'copy paste with a few paragraphs'?

Look's like you are in a bit of pickle there. To the OP what course are you doing?

moody writes...

To anyone who thinks they've never plagurised in their life, I call them a liar and would never trust them.

Absolutely absurd.

Justin. writes...

moody writes...
To anyone who thinks they've never plagurised in their life, I call them a liar and would never trust them.

Absolutely absurd.

+1. Absurd indeed. So moody, how do you justify your statement?

remember back in the day when i was just migrated to Aus, went to year 9 seeing other aussie kids just surf up the internet and copy all the collected infos. I thought dame Aus school is so easy, students can just copy and paste. So i did so myself without knowing it was academicly illegal. So i did my RE assignment by just fully plagerism, handed in, talk to others aussie kids "wow so easy i just copy and paste", the teacher was standing behind me back and overheard. Lol, i can remember she was pissed, gave me a 0 for me assignment, lol.

Well, lesson learnt from that day.

Now thinking about it, she was such a bad teacher, didn't even ask for my explaination/reason or consider the fact that i was new to the education system. When i received the assignment back, the only comment was "plagerism" and a big fat ZERO.

I think getting a zero for an assignment or failing the course is a bit too harsh for plagerism in my opinion. Think about it, a plagirised sentece makes up only one out possibly hundreds of legit sentences. So, a zero doesn't really reflect the actual quality of the assignment, or the effort a person has put in for that matter. When they detect plagerism, they take it to mean that the student is dishonest and is trying to deceive the marker to think that everything is their original work when it is not. So, imo, a zero is not based on the student's actual effort, but is rather on their intention. The problem with that is you can never know the true intention of a person.

For example when I need to write a psychological essay, I go and read so many papers, books, etc, and I come to agree or disagree with the ideas presented in them. The ones that I don't agree with aren't a problem, but the ones that I agree with become a part of what I accept and believe. Then when I start writing my essay, the ideas I'm pointing out as mine turn out to be the implicit reflection of the ideas presented in the papers and books that I read earlier. I've detected this a few times in my own work and it is quite scary – I'm sure some of you came across this too. That's why I use references very very generously, and have never been accused of plagirism till this date. But I'm not sure how some of you can be so confident in thinking that you have never plagirised before, because there is such a damn fine line.

chrism238 writes...

It's a valid employment type, accepted on tax-returns and immigration documentation worldwide

So is a Jedi Knight, at least in the Australian Tax Office.

Although it was 3 years ago, maybe they've cracked down on those since then.

raVen2.0 writes...

So is a Jedi Knight, at least in the Australian Tax Office.

Sure; good luck receiving a healthy income as a Jedi Knight!

(I do remember the same story as a respond-like-sheep answer to the question on declared religion on the last census, but I think it'd raise an eyebrow at the ATO).

Psychologist writes...

But I'm not sure how some of you can be so confident in thinking that you have never plagirised before, because there is such a damn fine line.

You don't cross that line by seeing where your wording is identical or substantially similar to the sources you use, and referencing appropriately.

I've heard from several lecturers that "as undergraduates, you won't be creating many new ideas or theories". Therefore, when I present theories (in the introduction or background discussion), I quote/paraphrase and reference appropriately. The only times when I don't reference are:

- Presentation and explanation of my own results from experiments
- Analysis of my own results (except when I am comparing with results other authors)
- Conclusions (but I may reference where necessary)

Essentially, if you are discussing theories and you are at an undergraduate level, there is a VERY high chance that similar discussions have been performed before. You should therefore find a reference which presents such a discussion, and provide a brief quote/paraphrase to illustrate your point. If there aren't any discussions pertaining directly to your topic (it's happened once for me), then you should try to "piece together" conclusions from various sources, and then draw them all together.

If you're aiming for the high marks, you generally try to find other sources which talk about similar topics, compare their methods and conclusions, and then explain which one you believe is best (or whether all of them are flawed!), and explain why.

What I've said above is easier said than done, as you need to watch the "little things" as well, like:

- Spelling and grammar
- Creating a logical flow of thoughts (some other assignments I've read jump back and forth between points and feel very disjointed)
- Justification of ideas

That's what I've been doing in my degree, and I've generally received relatively high marks this way (at least a 6 for all assignments/essays, and a 7 for my thesis).

Those who say they've never plagarised before are liars and not to be trusted. They're the types of people who wouldn't lend you their assignment or help you out in University-stuck up snobs. This is what I've noticed in Australia, most of the students here are so uptight and nerdy. Whereas in Europe, students are really casual and laid back and help each other out. They have mastered cheating in exams so much so they've made it an art form. Australia has still got a lot to learn.

Anyway, in semester 1 I had a hectic load..5 units actually. Its all a matter of using your head when it comes down to it.

lfa writes...

This is what I've noticed in Australia, most of the students here are so uptight and nerdy. Whereas in Europe, students are really casual and laid back and help each other out. They have mastered cheating in exams so much so they've made it an art form. Australia has still got a lot to learn.

How dare people have morals and integrity.

lfa writes...

Those who say they've never plagarised before are liars and not to be trusted. They're the types of people who wouldn't lend you their assignment or help you out in University-stuck up snobs. This is what I've noticed in Australia, most of the students here are so uptight and nerdy. Whereas in Europe, students are really casual and laid back and help each other out. They have mastered cheating in exams so much so they've made it an art form. Australia has still got a lot to learn.

Um we have a lot to learn because we tend not to cheat as much as the europeans.....?

I have never hesitated to help out a class mate when they're in need, not by giving them my work, which would actually not be helping them at all, but by discussing concepts and ideas and trying to explain things in my own way. Because I don't give my assignment to every person who's struggling this makes me uptight and nerdy?

If you need to have a lend of someone else's assignment every time you need to do an assessment you don't really belong at uni because you're either: A) Lazy, B) not intelligent enough to grasp the ideas you're being taught, or C) just a plain old cheat who mooches off the hard work of others. Either way you need to have a look at yourself and consider whether you're really up to going to university. I would never take any satisfaction from bludging off someone else's work to get by. Your argument seems extremely flawed to me. I would say it is the people who openly cheat and don't do the work themselves who are the ones "not to be trusted".

So many white knights in this thread crucifying the OP for plagiarism – unless you have never lied/cheated/stolen before, don't talk, even if the perceived degree of your wrong is much more 'innocent' than plagiarism.

EDIT: To the OP,

You'll most likely get 0 and have to do some kind of penance course revolving around why plagiarism is wrong and basically waste your time as a form of punishment. Although, you could get 0 for the course (unlikely) or booted out of uni (highly unlikely). What ever the consequence, I wouldn't try denying anything and take it on the chin. Try and be more careful in the future.

Sprocketman writes...

How dare people have morals and integrity.

Yes what an abhorrent thought.

verybored writes...

So many white knights in this thread crucifying the OP for plagiarism – unless you have never lied/cheated/stolen before, don't talk, even if the perceived degree of your wrong is much more 'innocent' than plagiarism.

By the way I never crucified the OP, I believe it was an honest mistake and a mistake that it is easily made. What I can't stomach is someone trying to tell me Australians have a lot to learn because they don't want to cheat and trying to reason that it is not the wrong thing to do. When it is blatantly intentional I'm sorry but that isn't right. When it's accidental, which can happen, people deserve a second chance.

Sedate Alien writes...

Likewise for myself. I felt sorry for a couple of friends struggling in my subject, so I sent my assignment to them. They got 96 and 84, I got 73. They only changed the wording and even then, they got the grammar wrong. I learned my lesson!

it shouldn't come at a surprise should it?
think about it, you did all the lower level work for them which allows them to operate at a much higher level of thought. If they didn't get a better mark than you they would be absolute idiots.

If you're a computing student of sorts, let me explain it this way, reusing existing code is alot easier than writing it from scratch.

Squallff8aus writes...

it shouldn't come at a surprise should it?
think about it, you did all the lower level work for them which allows them to operate at a much higher level of thought. If they didn't get a better mark than you they would be absolute idiots.

If you're a computing student of sorts, let me explain it this way, reusing existing code is alot easier than writing it from scratch.

Er, I'm not sure about that. The only changes they made were in the wording of the explanations – and even then, they only introduced errors. They copied the code verbatim (which had me paranoid that it would be caught by an automated system, but apparently they weren't that clever) and in some parts scored almost twice as much.

It's somewhat ironic, as the very reason I could prove that their marking was inconsistent was the same reason I should have received an even lower mark. In the end, only my idealism took a beating. :-)

Sedate Alien writes...

The only changes they made were in the wording of the explanations – and even then, they only introduced errors.

oh? according to whom? you? ;)
did you actually make a side by side comparison?

were they all marked by the same person or several different tutors?

Squallff8aus writes...

oh? according to whom? you? ;)
did you actually make a side by side comparison?

Grammatical and spelling errors, mostly. Nothing that should really affect the marks enormously, but you'd expect to lose a mark or two for them.

were they all marked by the same person or several different tutors?

Several different tutors.

I guess the real reason for my surprise was that in other subjects I had taken, the marking was much more consistent. It was my first year of uni and I let the same friends copy my assignments almost verbatim for half a dozen subjects and they would invariably get marks that were within 10% of my own. This marking spread took me by surprise.

SteveyJ writes...

I believe it was an honest mistake and a mistake that it is easily made.

See that's what gets me. How can you 'accidentally' plagiarise? I was taught from primary school not to do it, and enforced in high school, and then finally my lecturers made it clear. And it's probably in the uni's policy?

Zdravce88 writes...

i forgot to change it into my words and i saved different revisions of my work, and when i came back i forgot 2 change the words... i know thats a bad way of writing essays!

If he changed it into his own words and gave appropriate references than this would not have been plagiarising. Therefore, if this is what happened I would classify that as an honest mistake. An extremely bad way of writing essays yes, but not cheating for mine.

Mr.Phu writes...

I'm quite confident you'll just get a 0 for the assignment.

+1

User 289126 writes...

Those who say they've never plagarised before are liars and not to be trusted. They're the types of people who wouldn't lend you their assignment

lol.

Bribe the uni.

I once had this idiot who was an international student in their second year plagiarising. It was a group project for engineering and we had organised to meet one week later to merge our work together. When we asked this guy for his work he said he just needed to fix a few things up. A few hours later he claims he's finished. So we take a look, and I noticed that it was very detailed, so I took a sentence into google search doing that exact quote thing, and sure enough his whole essay was directly lifted from the web. He did remove hyperlinks in all fairness, but for god's sake if you are going to plagiarise at least use a better source than wikipedia!

To the OP, if you think as an engineer you won't have to write any more reports, you'll be in for a rude shock. You're going to need to deal with clients, discuss progress with bosses, adequate referencing of sources and standards and write up reports, all within the confines of whatever management and documentation system your place of employment utilises. If you do not have a sufficient grasp in technical writing, I suggest you learn.

...and in the real world the boss doesn't give a toss where the idea came from.

People plagiarise all the time in the real world.

I'm actually an advocate for not doing it but I also have worked in enough places to know how people get ahead – they often pass off the ideas of others as their own.

I've witnessed blatant copyright infringement and plagiarism time and time again. Mind you, I've only been in the work force for 30+ years so maybe that's not enough experience yet.

In my mind, universities would be better off spending their time helping people cope with how others in the workplace can behave and how to concentrate on protecting your intellectual ideas etc to help forward your career than worrying about whether you attempted to pass an idea off as your own or not. It's the degree to which they worry about such things that makes me question it when in the real world it's hardly even bothered with. It's like we set up these ideals yet out in the real world it's not like that at all.

Teamwork and collaboration exists mostly in academic circles. In my day to day experiences it remains an ideal that bosses love to show on presentation slides about how warm and fuzzy their company is but behind the scenes everyone's jockeying for position and power anyhow.

By all means, point out where people are plagiarising and perhaps have a points system that's part of the academic record but failing people or threatening them with expulsion is just a waste of human resources.

We are heading towards a low energy planet – to worry about such trivial points in the grand scheme of life is – well, academic – says it all really – academia is still way too disjointed with the real world and how business runs for it's own good at times.

PooshWaltzer writes...

Extensive documentation happens all the time in professional workplaces and is a prerequisite to both time and task management.

Yes, but a lot of that documentation doesn't contain references to where the idea came from or to whom.

Most documentation that I've witnessed (Government and multi-nationals) is in fact internal reference material and the notion about where the information was sourced from is way way way down the ladder of concern.

I'm not trying to down-play plagiarism by any means – I think who generated the idea should indeed get the credit (I've suffered from the loss of credit for many of my ideas) but I also think that it should be looked at in balance as to what happens in the real world – bosses demand a deadline – they don't give a toss who came up with the idea nor where it came from – they only care that the project is in on time period.

Bosses demand results – they care little whether the intellectual rigours of plagiarism where adherence to or not.

autogyro writes...

To the OP, if you think as an engineer you won't have to write any more reports, you'll be in for a rude shock. You're going to need to deal with clients, discuss progress with bosses, adequate referencing of sources and standards and write up reports, all within the confines of whatever management and documentation system your place of employment utilises.

Exactly.

Most stuff is templated anyhow.

And from what I've seen, most templates don't usually have a reference section for where quoted work was sourced from – hence my point that in the real world little thought is given to it.

I know I would not be in work for long should I book any time to adequately referencing where I sourced material from. Most places don't give a toss about such matters.

Maveri writes...

In my mind, universities would be better off spending their time helping people cope with how others in the workplace can behave and how to concentrate on protecting your intellectual ideas etc to help forward your career than worrying about whether you attempted to pass an idea off as your own or not.

Much of your comment is frightening – I read the above comment to state "universities should be teaching you how to protect your own intellectual property, and not to bother respecting the intellectual property rights of others".

Without checks on plagiarism, universities will be awarding degrees without any assurance that the degree holder actually understands the material – they located it, collated it, but they don't understand it. How can any employer requiring to be licensed or accredited have any credibility if their employees have only demonstrated a propensity to steal ideas?

As Sprocketman said "How dare people have morals and integrity".

There's a number of places at which I'm glad I don't work.

CARPE VERBATIM <><

User 289126 writes...

Those who say they've never plagarised before are liars and not to be trusted. They're the types of people who wouldn't lend you their assignment

I never once plagiarised when I was at uni, nor would i lend someone like you my assignment so you can rip it off. Do your own work.

I got done for Plagiarism once. Turned out I left one of my draft assignments around the printing area and some other enterprising people got their hands on it and passed it around.

Was cleared up pretty quickly though.

As for the OP, I saw it mentioned before but you can always resubmit to turnitin. A bit late now but good to remember for the future always helps you not to leave it till the last minute.

Turnitin is pretty good software. I remember we got a 30% score once because our assignment incorporated an interview transcript that was shared with another subject that was only handed in 2 weeks prior! We had permission to use the same interview from the teacher though so it didn't matter.

SlCKB0Y writes...

I never once plagiarised when I was at uni, nor would i lend someone like you my assignment so you can rip it off. Do your own work.

I call bullshit here. Never asked a mate for help on an assignment (or helped a mate)? Never done an assignment with a mate and separately hand in assignments? I would never trust you.

Zdravce88 writes...

I got done on turn it in. This is my first account of plagerism from the 4 years and I am hell worried because I am in my last semester and it would be tragic if i got expelled.

It all depends on how bad your plagiarism is. You should read your university guidelines on plagiarism as well as talking to the course coordinator.

Read through curtin university policy on plagiarism, to give you a good idea what might happen (again, each uni has different policy, how about you telling us which uni you are studying at?)

http://academicintegrity.curtin.edu.au/staffguide.pdf

Page 22:

Confirmed Level III Plagiarism(Board of Discipline)
---
Expulsion from the University
Refusal to re-enrol
Exclusion from the University for a period up to one year
ANN grade for the unit

---

moody writes...

Never asked a mate for help on an assignment (or helped a mate)?

There is a very big difference between discussing ideas and handing over your work.

Never done an assignment with a mate and separately hand in assignments?

In a group assignment yes, on an individual assignment no.

moody writes...

I would never trust you.

You don't seem to understand the concept of plagiarism.

artist91 writes...

Why not? I've never plagarised either. What's the point? Just do the work and get the mark like you're supposed to.

unfortunately it seems there are some people who do not have the brains to do their own work or even to fathom why plagiarism/CHEATING is wrong so there's no point arguing with them.

SteveyJ writes...

plagiarism/CHEATING

STEALING

Are you at UTS?

moody writes...

I call bullshit here. Never asked a mate for help on an assignment (or helped a mate)? Never done an assignment with a mate and separately hand in assignments? I would never trust you.

How often exactly do you think students share each other's work? I would never let a mate see my written assignment. Discussing ideas is fine, but at my uni, especially for some subjects I've studied in, having just one identical line in an essay is enough to get pulled for plagarism.

If you have such a flippant attitude toward plagiarism, you deserve to be caught out. Uni's give plenty of information upfront on what constitutes plagiarism and it is pretty much common knowledge now that it is a big deal. I'm surprised by how many people here still don't seem to take it seriously. I'd rather badly fail a course than have a mark on academic dishonesty on my record.

I used to draw kids title pages in primary school and get like 25cents each one, for some dam reason it was mandatory to have title pages in all your school books lol

Oh, and I also drew some pictures for a kid for Book Week, but I ended up deciding on entering myself and I won. It was almost like competing against myself ;D

agordon writes...

How often exactly do you think students share each other's work? I would never let a mate see my written assignment.

I always used to let other students read my written assignments. I found the best way to develop my communication skills was to let other people read my essays and reports and give me feedback.

It has improved my writing abilities ten fold and I have never had anyone try and plagiarise my work. One simple thing you can do to stop people from copying your work is to only provide them with a paper copy.

I have always let people read my code as well. And at uni I read a lot of other peoples code. I still do over 20 years later. I find it very helpful in improving my own coding skills.

Of course to stop people from copying my code verbatim I would always watermark it by doing something as simple as having the 1st letter of each method a letter in my surname or have the whitespace spell out my name in ascii. Regardless it is easy to prove who wrote the code.

So by not letting others review your assignments you are really shooting yourself in the foot.

Zdravce88 writes...

What do you guys think?

You don't deserve any degree or qualification. You're a thief who is trying to take the easy path where others have worked hard to achieve the same result.

Phaethon writes...

One simple thing you can do to stop people from copying your work is to only provide them with a paper copy.

if someone wants to plagiarise this wont stop them..

other people read my essays and reports and give me feedback.

So you're not giving them your final work but rather your developing work.

For me it depends on who asks and how much I trust them, or if I've seen their work before. If I know that they are 'capable' and are just needing a guide, I'll help. But usually even then, it'll be one of my sample docs.. Filled with errors etc, but something which will help get to a final result :D

So...what happened to the OP?

There is no excuse for a 4th year uni student to plagarise. First time offence is not an excuse either.

I hope you either get a fail for the subject and have it recorded on your academic record that you plagerised. This is how it is.

Either do it properly, or in a way you don't get caught.

I always found my assignments/essays to be a bunch of paraphrasing with citations. Its a load of crock really. I'm just repeating what someone else said in a journal (who is repeating someone else's work) but in my own words. How is that even research? Meh.

You are a moron.

University is for people who are willing to work hard.

THE M575 writes...

if someone wants to plagiarise this wont stop them..

+1, it doesn't really matter what format you give it to them.

I was always happy to answer questions, but not provide copies of my content.

.dan!el writes...

I always found my assignments/essays to be a bunch of paraphrasing with citations. Its a load of crock really. I'm just repeating what someone else said in a journal (who is repeating someone else's work) but in my own words. How is that even research? Meh.

But I found that doing this gives you a pass or a low credit at the best..

it's when you challenge what you've found, and disprove or enhance it that you bring in the D's and HD's..

THE M575 writes...

it's when you challenge what you've found, and disprove or enhance it that you bring in the D's and HD's..

Indeed. Writing a good essay is more than regurgitating facts and evidence: you have to form a coherent argument based on those things. It's why 'why' that matters more than the 'what.'

yup, because ultimatly in undergrad you're just trying to show that you understand the material. If you're questioning it, it shows that you understand it well. A good tip that I picked up is to keep asking "why" and "how" until you can't answer the question anymore for what you're writing. When it gets to that point, it means you've covered it well :D

Justin. writes...

It's why 'why' that matters more than the 'what.'

Some lecturers will disagree and mark you even more harshly. Some just like people to conform like sheep.

How does one argue against well documented peer-reviewed evidence based practice journal articles? Curious.

Writing a good essay is more than regurgitating facts and evidence

Uni has taught me the exact opposite although I agree entirely with that statement.

.dan!el writes...

Some lecturers will disagree and mark you even more harshly. Some just like people to conform like sheep.

I think we have a slight misunderstanding: you have to come to conclusions based on empirical research and evidence. The individual I was quoting said that it was enough to simply recycle facts, and this is simply not true. It's one thing to say that the sky is blue, but looking at the cause of that will be worth more, as an extremely basic example.

How does one argue against well documented peer-reviewed evidence based practice journal articles? Curious.

You don't. Every claim should be backed up with strong evidence whilst ensuring that there is originality to some extent. You have to remember that, for most courses, tutors would be reading hundreds of essays with the same sources. It would become evident quite fast as to who is simply rewriting the article as opposed to those who state the facts and come to an original conclusion based on sound research.

.dan!el writes...

Uni has taught me the exact opposite although I agree entirely with that statement.

Not me :D

Some lecturers will disagree and mark you even more harshly. Some just like people to conform like sheep.

Sounds like they aren't that great. :D

How does one argue against well documented peer-reviewed evidence based practice journal articles? Curious.

By using other journals etc.

An example from me. I was analysing some theories. Looking at all the work etc and then found my own 'loophole' if you like, and completely thrashed the theorist. Of course I didn't stop here. I then went ahead and researched my 'loop hole' where a similar thing has occured in OTHER instances. Doesn't have to be directly related, as long as it can be applied. Needless to say, that essay contained A LOT of personal opinion backed up with references, and it got a HD ;)

Zdravce88 writes...

Turn it in 30%

LOL :p anything under 35-40 is fine in my books, i used to laugh so hard when my tutor said "it said you plagiarized!!" i just used to say "Prove it". Hell my THESIS Proposal (40 pages) came out at about 50% and again i was laghing all the way to handing it in.

whats the point? Turn It In is WORTHLESS do NOT trust the number it gives you EVER (even when you really HAVE plagiarized). Hell one time it said i was directly plagiarizing a paper, guess who wrote it when I went in to check ;) lol

(FYI: I don't condone plagiarism in any way)

Looking at all the work etc and then found my own 'loophole' if you like, and completely thrashed the theorist

Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to speech pathology *mumbles* and MIPH ...

Mind you, I find undergrad markers to be total nazis whereas in postgrad, Ds and HDs are handed out like welfare payments.

Still would like to know what happened to the OP. I hope he gets a deserving punishment for plagiarism.

.dan!el writes...

I always found my assignments/essays to be a bunch of paraphrasing with citations. Its a load of crock really. I'm just repeating what someone else said in a journal (who is repeating someone else's work) but in my own words. How is that even research? Meh.

Yes, that's exactly what research is, repeating someone else's findings to back up your views/opinion. In undergraduate they don't expect you to come up with something new. And finding the right journal articles to back up your point takes ages.

Klamath writes...

+1, it doesn't really matter what format you give it to them.

I was always happy to answer questions, but not provide copies of my content.

Of course it won't stop someone who is dedicated to plagiarising your work. There is very little you can do to stop them besides being super paranoid and frankly then you alienate dozens of people who had no intention of plagiarising.

For instance there was a guy at uni who had an app on his usb stick set to auto-run that would copy all .doc files on someones student drive to the usb.

He would then go around to smart peoples computers and ask if he could quickly print something. Put his usb device in, printed a doc, and then left. Left with all their assignments as well.

Now this guy was caught because he was selling the assignments to others but there are plenty of other people who will never be caught.

In my experience it is highly unlikely that someone will plagiarise your work if you give it to them as a paper copy.

And in the real world the ideas themselves, which you are happy to share, are far more valuable than the code.

THE M575 writes...

So you're not giving them your final work but rather your developing work.

Well sometimes it is my developing work. Other times it is my final work because I decide it is good enough.

For me it depends on who asks and how much I trust them

Of course. I wouldn't give my work to a random student. The guy I was replying to was talking about mates though. I wouldn't be mates with someone I didn't trust.

THE M575 writes...

By using other journals etc.

An example from me. I was analysing some theories. Looking at all the work etc and then found my own 'loophole' if you like, and completely thrashed the theorist. Of course I didn't stop here. I then went ahead and researched my 'loop hole' where a similar thing has occured in OTHER instances.

Exactly. It is in fact easy to write an essay that contains original thought provided you understand the journal articles you are reading. Most of the journal articles I have read that are highly analytical are proving something in a very narrow set of circumstances.

My standard 'technique' for writing essays on journal articles back at uni was to see exactly where the results applied. I often found that they only applied in highly theoretical or controlled circumstances. I then just argued whether I thought it could approximate the real world or work in enough situations to be useful. Then you could mention furthur research that could be done in the area etc.

Phaethon writes...

There is very little you can do to stop them besides being super paranoid and frankly then you alienate dozens of people who had no intention of plagiarising.

There is no reason to give out your work-in-progress, and that will stop them plagiarising your work.
If they have questions on the concepts then by all means you should help out and answer them, this will help them learn.

For instance there was a guy at uni who had an app on his usb stick set to auto-run that would copy all .doc files on someones student drive to the usb.

That's a pretty extreme case though.

And in the real world the ideas themselves, which you are happy to share, are far more valuable than the code.

I certainly agree with that and that is why you should help by answering their questions – when it comes to handing in an assignment and avoiding plagiarism the converse is far more true.

A round-table discussion is always far more productive in terms of learning the concepts than everyone passing around their assignments.

mrhankey writes...

To the O.P. – I find it hard to accept you have made it to fourth year of any discipline (especially engineering) without writing an essay or other written piece requiring referencing and review

You find it hard to believe? Really? Surprised I don't fit in to this category having completed a BSc and a BE and never once wrote an essay.

I will be on the look out for a stool to assist you off your high horse. I actually would have thought someone named mrhankey would not be so prissy. My Bad

Skippy Da Roo writes...

and never once wrote an essay.

or something else needing referencing... you skipped that part ;)

I'm always happy to help people to a degree, though I must admit, sometimes I won't give away the full extent of my idea.. why? because it's the difference between a HD/D and a C. :D

I don't about your university, but I know that some guys in my class didn't automatically fail their courses but received zero for that particular piece of assignment that had been plagiarised, and their details placed in the university records.

Seeing it is your first time, I don't think it's the end of the world unless it was a significant assignment. No expulsion, but your record will be tainted. Try not to do the same thing again.

There was a huge stink in my first-year Physics prac class when guys were just copying each others reports: no-one particularly cared (being Engineering students; zzz @ Uni Adelaide "other disciplines" principles... :/ ) about the subject.

Anyway, a couple of guys were caught, and then basically let off because no-one liked the prac tutor who caught them.

...of course, their TERs were (apparently) around the 99 mark...

It's disturbing to read here how many seem unfamiliar with the existence or extent of penalties at their universities, suggesting that the process is random or just apocryphal.

Here's the clearly stated process at UWA, which is made abundantly clear to all students; I'm confident that other universities have similarly clear structures.

Klamath writes...

There is no reason to give out your work-in-progress, and that will stop them plagiarising your work.

There are good reasons to give out your work in progress.

By having skilled people review your assignments you actually learn a lot.

Getting others to review your work both at university and in the real world provides you with a massive advantage.

Sure to be safe from plagiarism you could make sure you only showed it to others outside of the course but I have never been worried about plagiarism myself.

Phaethon writes...

Getting others to review your work both at university and in the real world provides you with a massive advantage.

Ofcourse, but doing it with others that are doing the same assignment leaves you open to plagiarism so that group is worth avoiding.

If you want your explanation/implementation reviewed it is generally more valuable to have it reviewed by someone who doesn't know the concepts so well in that they can better vouch for the quality of your explanation/implementation.

If you want clarification on the concepts then a round-table discussion with your peers is the most valuable as it gives you the opportunity to ask questions outside of their base explanation/implementation.

User 289126 writes...

Don't worry, everyone plagarises. Its like masturbation – a slightly taboo topic that everyone is afraid to admit that they do. Its perfectly normal. We've been plagarising ever since the dawn of mankind. However the issue here is referencing all the sources.

Absolutely brilliant!!!

If i where to go back to uni, I would trade assignments/essays. I actually found it to be quite beneficial. For example, when writing an essay, reading another essay allowed myself to view the issue from a different angle. From this, it allowed myself to introduce more arguments/points into my own essay, which I found enhanced the final product.

Chading writes...

...of course, their TERs were (apparently) around the 99 mark...

LOL, as if that's a true indicator of integrity! They might have cheated on their SACE work too! ;)

confused soul writes...

If i where to go back to uni, I would trade assignments/essays. I actually found it to be quite beneficial.

It's a good practice, but there's a difference between trading similar assignments, like from past years (which unis will sometimes make available), and trading work from the same course/year where it's just begging to be plagiarised.

chann writes...

LOL, as if that's a true indicator of integrity! They might have cheated on their SACE work too! ;)
Wouldn't be that surprised, considering what I hear goes on at the, er, "posh" schools. These guys knew all about who the examiners were for subjects and all sorts of stuff... :/

chann writes...

It's a good practice, but there's a difference between trading similar assignments, like from past years (which unis will sometimes make available), and trading work from the same course/year where it's just begging to be plagiarised.

Yep, totally agree. But you are pretty stupid to do a straight "cut'n'paste" of someone else work. For examply, say I had a maths assignment to complete, and I got a copy of the answers from another student. It would be stupid of me to just copy down the full solution number for number. The point being, they could be wrong, and in turn you will be wrong. You're better off reading and understand how the solution came about, then re-writing the problem in your own way. The thing is with math problems, although there may be 1 method to complete the problem, everybody will have a different way of explaining how to complete that problem. Some may show every step, others leave steps out, while others will add worded explanations as to why they did that step.

For the OP, count yourself lucky you (should) receive a 0 for that assignment. The lecturer is quite within their right to take the matter further eg Dean, assoc Dean of the department.

confused soul writes...

The thing is with math problems, although there may be 1 method to complete the problem

There is almost always multiple methods.

everybody will have a different way of explaining how to complete that problem.

Yep. And even the order of many of the steps. Hey should I intergrate this part now then take the limit or factorise this expression first etc.

The biggest reason so many people copy in maths courses is because the assignments are usually very similar to a problem in the lecture notes. And so people just copy the solution from the lecture notes and modify it to work on their question.

As such they all have very similar assignments when they aren't cheating. This makes it really easy to get away with cheating.

Phaethon writes...

Yep. And even the order of many of the steps. Hey should I intergrate this part now then take the limit or factorise this expression first etc.

+1, exactly what I'm getting at.

As such they all have very similar assignments when they aren't cheating. This makes it really easy to get away with cheating.

+1.

Sprocketman writes...

There is a very big difference between discussing ideas and handing over your work.

Getting help for an assignment and not putting it down as a reference is plagiarism. You fail. You've used someone elses ideas.

kiplinght writes...

University is for people who are willing to work hard.

I disagree, uni is for people who want a piece of paper so that they can work hard. Uni is just a bunch of exams..

moody writes...

I disagree, uni is for people who want a piece of paper so that they can work hard. Uni is just a bunch of exams..

I disagree. University is a place to develop new skills and a way to prove to future employers that you have the skills which they can expect. Also, not all courses have exams..

THE M575 writes...

I disagree. University is a place to develop new skills and a way to prove to future employers that you have the skills which they can expect. Also, not all courses have exams..

Maybe it was my course I did – every subject with a 70-80% exam, welcome to engineering. Not many skills required, just alot of time (other courses would be worse, no skills and no time required).

At OP: With essays put a reference in every paragraph ^.^

moody writes...

uni is for people who want a piece of paper so that they can work hard

Why would you need a piece of paper to work hard?

.dan!el writes...

I always found my assignments/essays to be a bunch of paraphrasing with citations. Its a load of crock really. I'm just repeating what someone else said in a journal (who is repeating someone else's work) but in my own words.

You're an undergraduate student right? The idea for undergraduates is to understand the content, and the context that it's used in. Not to create new research.

How is that even research?

What you're doing? You're not. Research comes in when you add to the content, or clarify the context with your own repeatable observations.

.dan!el writes...

Some lecturers will disagree and mark you even more harshly

It's a pretty risky manouver disagreeing with the person who's going to mark you. You have to make sure that your argument is air-tight and not built up out of pure opinion.

How does one argue against well documented peer-reviewed evidence based practice journal articles?

Base research. You think to yourself "that's not right", and you go off and create the experiment yourself and then observe what happens.

moody writes...

I disagree, uni is for people who want a piece of paper so that they can work hard.

Assumption:
You mean – A University degree is simply a tick on a checklist in the things you need to get a good job.

I think a lot of people treat degrees like that; their loss. University is about understanding the science of a field that you're interested in. I

Uni is just a bunch of exams..

This shows exactly how small your understanding of University is. Some programs are exam heavy, some have no exams.

Ive been put in a very unusual situation now by my Uni, i did my assignment work and submitted it end of May for which i got marked and already collected my assignment long time ago. I did my final exam, and when the results got published few days ago i see that my mark is deferred. I go and checked with my uni and they say to me that i have been found to be plagiarizing my last work by the unit coordinator. Now the case I got to do my project is quite specific and there are no similar systems built on the internet using this particular programing language (its a programing code that Ive submitted). I did all the work myself with the help of my lecturer which was following my progress from the start of the project. I find it quite disappointing and bizarre that Iam being accused of something that Ive spend a lot of hard work to do. Also no one copied my work in my class since we are only 5 people and each got different topic. The funny thing is this is my last subject and I was about to graduate, and they told me that if this didnt happen i would have gotten Distinction in the subject, because i got really good marks on all the parts of my assignments and on my final exam. Now iam stuck with this situation in which I don't know how can I explain that I did not plagiarize anyone. It wouldn't even cross my mind to copy someone else's work in my last semester, since I understand the subject fully. I also checked my assignment through some plagiarism apps and they found 0% similarity. How do you guys check with turn it it, is there any website or this goes through the Uni? Anyone been in a similar position to mine, any help would be appreciated.

Otod writes...

I go and checked with my uni and they say to me that i have been found to be plagiarizing my last work by the unit coordinator.

The first thing to do is find out why they think you have plagiarised. Given your explanation it sounds like a simple mistake that should be sorted out. You will certainly have a chance to explain your side of the story.

Uh, yeah – seriously, its obvious you should go and find out why (baffling that you didn't think of this). Be sure to also get that HD he said you would get had you not 'plagiarised'.

Otod writes...

any help would be appreciated.

Contact the course coordinator and find out why you were flagged for plagiarism. Generally speaking, if you can show that you have a deep understanding (i.e. you could recreate it) you should be exonerated.

Otod writes...

How do you guys check with turn it it, is there any website or this goes through the Uni?

They either get you to submit your assighment yourself through turnitin online through the uni's website, or the assessors do it themselves when they receive it.

In 1st year we were allowed to see what turnitin picked up, i sourced about 3 websites and it picked up 15 websites (but only had a rating of about 1% copied for each site, so its entirely possible that your work that you genuinely did yourself coincidentally is very similar to what someone else wrote)

Turnitin only seems to work for websites and past materials submitted, so make most of your sources paper based if possible ^.^

I spoke to them immediately and they said I will be receiving letter and there will be an interview where I can discuss it with them, so we will see what happens, i hope its a mistake from their side since I don't see it other way. Thanks for all the replies.

Do you have backup copies of your assignment that you made along the way to show them? That will probably help to convince them that it is your own work. When I write essays I periodically print off hard copies of my work, just in case. I've never had to use them though...

Otod writes...

I spoke to them immediately and they said I will be receiving letter and there will be an interview where I can discuss it with them

Great. What I would do now is gather all my rough notes/copies of whatever I have, write down where you sourced your information from, class notes related to the project, and even find some documentation somewhere (emails to lecturer?) showing how you prepared for the assignment.

Finally, DEMAND to see proof of how you supposedly plagiarised (you may want to ask that they have it ready AT the interview, so you dont need to wait even longer!) – may as well attack the issue head on. If they say "another student handed in the same thing" then you know where to go from there.

Klamath writes...

Why would you need a piece of paper to work hard?

As in, once you have your degree its the beginning, a piece of paper doesn't guarantee success.

Unknown Designer writes...

Assumption:
You mean – A University degree is simply a tick on a checklist in the things you need to get a good job.

Don't need (depending on sector), but definitely always helps.

This shows exactly how small your understanding of University is. Some programs are exam heavy, some have no exams.

Ha, I think I understand Uni well enough thanks. But yes, my electrical engineering course was all exams, if you break it down to get my piece of paper I had to do many many exams. And you're correct, many courses don't have exams as I said earlier, but I personally wouldn't respect that course as much. :)

moody writes...

Don't need (depending on sector), but definitely always helps.

This is why I posted my assumption. Your first post doesn't seem to correlate with what you're saying now.

but I personally wouldn't respect that course as much. :)

Then you've obviously never done one of them. In my CS degree, we had a series of studio/project subjects that had no exam requirement and they required way more work than any exam based subject I had had to do. As a frame of reference, my final studio/project I probably spent an average of 80 hours a week working on my responsibilities.

Unknown Designer writes...

This is why I posted my assumption. Your first post doesn't seem to correlate with what you're saying now.

It correlates.

Then you've obviously never done one of them.

lol, I've done a thesis..I did much better in that than I usually do in an exam based subject.

Unknown Designer writes...

It's a pretty risky manouver disagreeing with the person who's going to mark you. You have to make sure that your argument is air-tight and not built up out of pure opinion.

hmm. If done right, as you've said I guess, it's good. I did it once, and before I submitted my lecturer told me what he thought, but I didn't quite agree with him. I submitted, and that was *A* reason I got such a good mark "although I disagree with your view on xxxx you backed it up well... etc.."

moody writes...

lol, I've done a thesis..I did much better in that than I usually do in an exam based subject.

My thesis project was a lot easier than some of the project based courses I have done.

Phaethon writes...

My thesis project was a lot easier than some of the project based courses I have done.

And what course did you do? My thesis was fairly involved, equivalent to 4 normal subjects, 2 large reports due over the year + 2x 20 minute presentations + demonstration in front of academic staff/peers, as well as other smaller submissions.

moody writes...

It correlates.

Again, it didn't seem that way. Which is why I posted my assumption.

lol, I've done a thesis..I did much better in that than I usually do in an exam based subject.

So, you've never done a studio/project subject? It shows.

The only hard thing about honours thesis work is that you had to do all of the work yourself and only had a few people who could devote any time to making sure you kept on target. To give you an example, I spent 80 hours a week on average in my final semester of honours on my studio/project subject, and only about 10 hours a week on thesis to get about the same marks (I scored higher on my thesis). Although, thesis was due 2 weeks after the bulk of my studio/project was. Which allowed me to spend a copious amount of time writing it up.

The studio/project subjects that my degree offered were wicked cool, and intensely difficult.

moody writes...

My thesis was fairly involved, equivalent to 4 normal subjects, 2 large reports due over the year + 2x 20 minute presentations + demonstration in front of academic staff/peers, as well as other smaller submissions.

That's what most honours thesis subjects consist of.

Basically, majority of my studio/project subject consisted of a single subject that required you to subject 2 reports 5k-8k in length¹ (design proposal, a journal format paper describing the entire process including outcomes and such), a group report that usually came out between 20 and 30 pages², at least 2 ten minute presentations, 1 presentation night in front of peers, academics, and industry. Quite often you'd be required to present for 5 minutes every week/fortnight.

Also, while studios/projects started off being heavily driven by teaching staff, they became student driven in their later years. First year was stuff like "build an information kiosk", second year was "we want you to address games that bridge the physical/digital divide", third year was "we are interested in supporting collaborative teams separated by location" and we had a micro-thesis in the second semester of third year until the end of honours year.

1- To be totally honest, these actually ramped up over time. I can't remember how big they were in first year (probably 1500w – 2000). In our final year there was no word count, just a maximum page count (generally 6-8 pages (in a journal format (about 15 pages in thesis format)).

2- Again these ramped up over time.

Unknown Designer writes...

That's what most honours thesis subjects consist of.

Yep to be honest I think honours needs to be much harder. I didn't deserve first class. Of course if the thesis was harder I would have put more effort in to get it.

+Projects where you have to work in a group are always an order of magnitude harder than projects done individually.

Unknown Designer writes...

That's what most honours thesis subjects consist of.

Sounds like my thesis was more involved. Maybe you did an easy topic / your mentor didn't challenge you. But yeah, I wouldn't be comparing computer science with engineering, heh.

moody writes...

Sounds like my thesis was more involved.

Sounds like you'll make an assertion about plenty of things you know nothing about.

Maybe you did an easy topic / your mentor didn't challenge you

I actually did a really hard topic that impressed both academics and industry.

But yeah, I wouldn't be comparing computer science with engineering, heh.

Ahh Engineering students. So totally and undeservedly up themselves.

Unknown Designer writes...

Ahh Engineering students. So totally and undeservedly up themselves.

We're not all like that, I assure you. :-)

Unknown Designer writes...

Sounds like you'll make an assertion about plenty of things you know nothing about.

Same can be said exactly about yourself.

I actually did a really hard topic that impressed both academics and industry.

Your first post doesn't seem to correlate with what you're saying now.

Ahh Engineering students. So totally and undeservedly up themselves.

Sounds like you'll make an assertion about plenty of things you know nothing about.

P.S. I'm not an engineering student.

moody writes...

many courses don't have exams as I said earlier, but I personally wouldn't respect that course as much. :)

Why?

moody writes...

Same can be said exactly about yourself.

Really? How?

Your first post doesn't seem to correlate with what you're saying now.

Really? How?

Sounds like you'll make an assertion about plenty of things you know nothing about.

My appologies if you're not an Engineer. Maybe you should try it as a career path.

P.S. I'm not an engineering student.

So, what is your basis that you can't compare Engineering with Computer Science?

EDIT: So you dropped out of Engineering? At least you can see why it would be easy to make that connection.

moody writes...

Even the uber nerds in my engineering degree plagurised off myself

moody writes...

But yes, my electrical engineering course was all exams, if you break it down to get my piece of paper

*Looks at thread title*

This thread has gone reeeally off-topic.

Justin. writes...

This thread has gone reeeally off-topic.

You're not helping it.

moody writes...

If it was up to me, I'd make you redo the assignment, however I understand that lecturers are social retards that want to put you through as much pain as they went through (what I like to call the cycle of pain). You'll probably fail the assignment, and if you're unlucky the subject.

Since the "rules of the game" are spelled out for each subject/course...your inability to submit written work that conforms to those standards makes you the "retard".

Psychologist writes...

So, imo, a zero is not based on the student's actual effort, but is rather on their intention. The problem with that is you can never know the true intention of a person.

WTF? How can they mark you on your "intentions"? A: You can't be marked according to your intentions, and hence you are marked according the quality of your actual work.

That's why I use references very very generously, and have never been accused of plagirism till this date.

Exactly. Reference carefully and frequently, then you won't get done for plagerism!

But I'm not sure how some of you can be so confident in thinking that you have never plagirised before, because there is such a damn fine line.

If you develop writing skills like paraphrasing then it won't be a problem.

So the OP probably no longer needs the help originally requested and the topic has since digressed into the nuances of referencing as opposed to plagerism. Fantastic.

PooshWaltzer writes...

So the OP probably no longer needs the help originally requested and the topic has since digressed into the nuances of referencing as opposed to plagerism. Fantastic.

it's educational.

much like walking into a fireplace is educational, as there does not need there to be a fire, or any real cause, problem, disaster, injury or result, for academics to spontaneously discuss irrelevant details, thats not what post-mortem discussion is for.

arguably, post-mortem discussion is required to analyse the problem, highlight the important issues, and thus improve things for all parties.

effectively it's to preen and posture while pointing out irrelevant facts and spin a problem into easily conclusive yet wholly disconnected logical problems, so others can provide easy answers with no specific relevance ot the original point. while on the surface this is evidently pointless, this is entirely the history of all academic discussion.

hence, it's educational. those of you with experience of academic discussion can almost see the entire 4 hours laid out in advance when something banal like this comes up.

Unknown Designer writes...

My appologies if you're not an Engineer. Maybe you should try it as a career path.

I am an Engineer.

So, what is your basis that you can't compare Engineering with Computer Science?

They are completely different courses. Why would you compare them? I would find it hard to compare them. You simply misinterpreted, but really I'm not surprised you seem to do it alot.

EDIT: So you dropped out of Engineering? At least you can see why it would be easy to make that connection.

No, I'm not an engineering student because I graduated several years ago.

Geez, you have some issues you need to sort out ASAP..

moody writes...

You simply misinterpreted, but really I'm not surprised you seem to do it alot.

What you meant was clear as day. That engineering was much more difficult than computer science. Don't act like a weasel and try and pretend that wasn't what you meant. You could even make an excellent argument as to why engineering is more difficult than computer science at a university level; starting with the much higher mathematical knowledge required.

If you didn't mean that engineering was more difficult than computer science then you need to work on your ability to communicate as quite frankly you aren't going to get anywhere unless you can communicate with others.

Bearman writes...

However, I was responding to *your* misguided comment and not the OP's comment.

My misguided comment of what I would do if I were a lecturer? The same sort of lecturer which creates the "rules of the game". Nice one bright spark, you make a whole lot of sense.

Phaethon writes...

What you meant was clear as day.

Not really, you came to that conclusion. He stated that his thesis was easy compared to his group work, I mentioned that maybe he didn't make all of it as he could have, and I implied that his thesis would have been different to mine. He is quick to make assumptions, so are you.

If you didn't mean that engineering was more difficult than computer science then you need to work on your ability to communicate as quite frankly you aren't going to get anywhere unless you can communicate with others.

If you say so. It has worked very well so far. :)

Personally, I'm bowing out of this discussion. Waste of time and has gone way off topic, I was originally trying to help the OP as there are so many people on here that put people down in threads like these, where they think their shit doesn't stink. I guess it doesn't since they are so high up on their horse.

moody writes...

I am an Engineer.

Oh, so you were an Engineering student. At least that explains your arrogance.

You simply misinterpreted, but really I'm not surprised you seem to do it alot.

You're a poor author who misleads their audience?

moody writes...

I mentioned that maybe he didn't make all of it as he could have

Massive assumption based on nothing.

I implied that his thesis would have been different to mine.

No, you implied that you're thesis was harder because it was Engineering.

Waste of time

You don't want to waste time but your arguing on the internet? Fail.

gone way off topic

You're one of the major contributors in that.

where they think their shit doesn't stink.

You're one of the major contributors in that.

Unknown Designer writes...

Oh, so you were an Engineering student. At least that explains your arrogance.

If that will make you happy, think what you wish.

You're a poor author who misleads their audience?

You assume too much.

Unknown Designer writes...

Massive assumption based on nothing.

I said maybe, it was a comment to acquire more information from you regarding the topic. I assumed nothing.

No, you implied that you're thesis was harder because it was Engineering.

Thats how you choose to understand it, you assumed incorrectly. I never said mine was harder than yours, you said your thesis was relatively easier in comparison.

You're one of the major contributors in that.

Likewise, you have been also.

You're one of the major contributors in that.

That sentence makes no sense. But no, again you assume incorrectly.

moody writes...

My misguided comment of what I would do if I were a lecturer? The same sort of lecturer which creates the "rules of the game". Nice one bright spark, you make a whole lot of sense.

Yeah you'd clearly make a great lecturer! No need to worry about this silly plagerism and referencing stuff...just copy and paste content as fast as you can from the internet or other students work, and complete the whole course in a week or two!

Bearman writes...

Yeah you'd clearly make a great lecturer! No need to worry about this silly plagerism and referencing stuff...just copy and paste content as fast as you can from the internet or other students work, and complete the whole course in a week or two!

It is plagiarism, not plagerism.

And no I didn't say plagiarism was fine bright spark, I said that I would make him redo the assignment such that it was satisfactory. No idea why you're saying the things you are, again you make little sense.

I think that is fair, if you don't then you're entitled to your own opinion.

moody writes...

It is plagiarism, not plagerism.

Lol...nice one 'bright spark'!

moody writes...

Even the uber nerds in my engineering degree plagurised off myself

sorry, couldn't help myself ;)

Zdravce88 writes...

I have been alledged to have plagerised in a assesment peice and i have no idea if i will be expelled, result will be marked down, or will obtain no credit for that subject.
I am in my 4th year and have never done a "essay type assignment" due to a heavily maths based course. I chose to do a FIRST year subject which involved alot of essay assessments.

If your alleged then you have plagiarism. But most Uni's will give you a warning and if you say your happy to resubmit the work. Same thing happened to one of our courses but this was related to the 95% of the class and ended up the lecturers fault.

But it is a serious crime in Uni but if you play it nice u'll get away with the first one.

Klamath writes...

sorry, couldn't help myself ;)

Nice find :D

moody writes...

And no I didn't say plagiarism was fine...

Essentially you are, by giving plagiarists a slap on the wrist.

bright spark,

You seem a tad embittered...sounds like somebody didn't do too well at uni! It must be the systems/lecturer's fault!

I said that I would make him redo the assignment such that it was satisfactory. No idea why you're saying the things you are, again you make little sense.

Yeah "re-doing" the assignment...potential plagiarists will be quaking in the boots at that one!

Bearman writes...

Essentially you are, by giving plagiarists a slap on the wrist.

Why are you using plural? You make no sense, and that is your opinion (and ill informed).

You seem a tad embittered...sounds like somebody didn't do too well at uni! It must be the systems/lecturer's fault!

I did fine, but its not like marks account for anything. Potential employers aren't interested in my marks – its irrelevant, they would be interested in my experience with projects I've been involved with and my contacts.

You do sound very childish, I hope you change your attitude before you try to acquire a job, you may end up hindering yourself.

Yeah "re-doing" the assignment...potential plagiarists will be quaking in the boots at that one!

I stated for this situation (with the OP), I would make him redo it. That doesn't mean I would make all plagiarists redo the assignment. You assume too much. It matters very little, I have no interest in becoming an academic – it was originally a comment to sympathise with the OP.

moody writes...

Why are you using plural?

...because your comments are clearly indicative of your general attitude towards plagiarism (i.e., it's no big deal, just another silly rule imposed by lecturers to make life hard).

You make no sense

Makes perfect sense!

and that is your opinion (and ill informed).

...well informed actually!

I did fine, but its not like marks account for anything.

In other words you just scraped through, and you are a bit bitter and twisted because of it..."those bastard lecturers"!

You do sound very childish, I hope you change your attitude before you try to acquire a job, you may end up hindering yourself.

Already "acquired" several jobs in my lifetime.

I stated for this situation (with the OP), I would make him redo it. That doesn't mean I would make all plagiarists redo the assignment. You assume too much.

It's a fair assumption given your comments in this thread.

It matters very little, I have no interest in becoming an academic –

You don't have to be an academic to see that your suggestion is flawed.

Bearman writes...

...because your comments are clearly indicative of your general attitude towards plagiarism (i.e., it's no big deal, just another silly rule imposed by lecturers to make life hard).

My comments clearly indicate my attitude towards other people and plagiarism. Not plagiarism as a whole. Instead of making assumptions, ask me questions. Do not accuse and slur myself.

Makes perfect sense!

No it does not.

...well informed actually!

Incorrect.

In other words you just scraped through, and you are a bit bitter and twisted because of it..."those bastard lecturers"!

No, I got a credit average in an engineering degree – which I think is pretty decent, and I'm rather proud of it. But as I said, marks mean nothing to me nor my employer – its irrelevant to any aspect of my career. So again, you make assumptions of myself that are incorrect. Please stop labelling people.

Already "acquired" several jobs in my lifetime.

Maccas doesn't count.

It's a fair assumption given your comments in this thread.

Myself saying otherwise, clearly indicates that is incorrect.

You don't have to be an academic to see that your suggestion is flawed.

You are very much again, incorrect. I have seen the same solution being provided to previous students depending on the situation. So no my suggestion isn't flawed.

You have a serious attitude problem.

Bearman writes...

Essentially you are, by giving plagiarists a slap on the wrist.

It's pretty common policy to slap the wrist of first offenders.

moody writes...

My comments clearly indicate my attitude towards other people and plagiarism. Not plagiarism as a whole. Instead of making assumptions, ask me questions.

...however I understand that lecturers are social retards that want to put you through as much pain as they went through (what I like to call the cycle of pain).

Is this bit characteristic of your attitude?

Do not accuse and slur myself.

?? Clearly engineers don't need to worry about basic English skills (or plagiarism).

No, I got a credit average in an engineering degree – which I think is pretty decent, and I'm rather proud of it.

Well give yourself a pat on the back if that's really the best you could do.

But as I said, marks mean nothing to me nor my employer – its irrelevant to any aspect of my career. So again, you make assumptions of myself that are incorrect. Please stop labelling people.

I don't think anyone is particularly interested in your "career".

You are very much again,...

See my comment above regarding English skills. Looks like you really should have paid more attention at uni. ;-)

Maccas doesn't count.

Nope, never worked there!

You have a serious attitude problem.

I'd say that the following is the definition of "a serious attitude problem"...

...however I understand that lecturers are social retards that want to put you through as much pain as they went through (what I like to call the cycle of pain).

You are very much again, incorrect. I have seen the same solution being provided to previous students depending on the situation. So no my suggestion isn't flawed.

...provided to fourth year students?

Bearman writes...

...provided to fourth year students?

That's the part of this thread that I found rather disturbing. It's not a first year first semester student who just continued a bad habit from highschool. It's a guy just about to graduate.

Bearman writes...

?? Clearly engineers don't need to worry about basic English skills (or plagiarism).

Now that is hilarious since I have been correcting your English skills the whole time. You do have very poor English skills.

Well give yourself a pat on the back if that's really the best you could do.

Thats actually commendable, I know for a fact you could not do any better.

I don't think anyone is particularly interested in your "career".

And that shows your ignorance – once you've finished school/uni you will understand kiddo.

See my comment above regarding English skills. Looks like you really should have paid more attention at uni. ;-)

Do you have reading difficulties? Are you dyslexic? That is a legitimate question, you seem to be having some problems. Maybe you should practice reading out aloud.

...provided to fourth year students?

Please see my above comment on English skills. You don't start a sentence with "..".

moody writes...

You don't start a sentence with "..".

ok now this is getting ridiculous.

EBazooka writes...

ok now this is getting ridiculous.

flapping tell me about it. His very first comment was stupid, I should have known he was a troll looking to bait me. Oh well.

you dont need to have supoib literary skillz on the net, what people write here is not going to be assessed or given a mark by someone who matters

Is it necessary for the entire last page to be devoted to semi-personal attacks?

Bunch of grammar Nazis

Thats

Should be 'That's'

And

This is not a word you can start sentences with if you are going to write in a formal matter. Wouldn't it be fair if you're going to open up the firing squad on the other person's grammar to apply the same rules for yourself?

I'm A Torso! writes...

This is not a word you can start sentences with if you are going to write in a formal matter.

I think you mean "This is not a word with which you can start sentences ...."

Please, do try harder.

chrism238 writes...

I think you mean "This is not a word with which you can start sentences ...."

You re-arranged, and lengthened a sentence which was grammatically fine. Congratulations for creating a straw-man opponent.

Please, do try harder.

I'll be right thanks?

Unknown Designer writes...

That's the part of this thread that I found rather disturbing. It's not a first year first semester student who just continued a bad habit from highschool. It's a guy just about to graduate.

Indeed, four years is plenty of time to absorb one of the fundamental rules.

moody writes...

Now that is hilarious since I have been correcting your English skills the whole time. You do have very poor English skills.

You mean you made a big deal of my spelling error?

Thats actually commendable, I know for a fact you could not do any better.

You don't know anything about me matee.

And that shows your ignorance – once you've finished school/uni you will understand kiddo.

Oh I've finished uni...undergrad and postgrad.

Do you have reading difficulties? Are you dyslexic? That is a legitimate question, you seem to be having some problems. Maybe you should practice reading out aloud.

The only reading difficulties that I have are due to your bizarre syntax.

Hey, if you want me to get pedantic:
a) The third sentence in your reply above should begin with "Those are..." because you posed two questions, not one.
b) The second part of that sentence (after the comma) should be linked with "as" because it's clumsy without it.
c) The "out" in "reading out aloud" is redundant.

Please see my above comment on English skills. You don't start a sentence with "..".

I didn't start a sentence with "..", I started a *sentence fragment* with an ellipse "...".

It's nice to see some Whirlpool users 'getting smart' and making personal attacks against others they deem not educated enough to use the forums. It's when healthy argument transforms into suggestions that other users have disabilities such as 'dyslexia,' that it become more than light trolling.

Unless you're qualified to diagnose someone with this, I think you should keep your comments to yourself. I didn't remember reading in the Whirlpool conditions of use that you have to be a member of an elitist grammatology society to make forum posts.

I'm A Torso! writes...

It's when healthy argument transforms into suggestions that other users have disabilities such as 'dyslexia,' that it become more than light trolling.

Yeah moody's big on juvenile name-calling..."retard", "bright spark" and now, dyslexic"!

I think we seem to be done here... if you wish to continue discussing the semantics of English grammar et al., please use /forum-replies.cfm?t=1127616 instead.

Thread Closed.

edit: caught by the grammar police!